← The Official Yellowstone Podcast
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- [00:07]
Jefferson White
Hey, everybody, it's Jefferson White here and welcome to the official Yellowstone podcast presented by Wynn Las Vegas. So hopefully if you're here, you might know me as Jimmy on the Dutton Ranch, but right now I'm a long way from Montana. I'm a long way from the bunkhouse. I am actually recording this podcast for an incredible studio in the Wynn Las Vegas. If you know anything about me, it's.
- [00:31]
Luke Grimes
Probably that I'm new to a lot of this and believe it or not, this is also actually my first time.
- [00:37]
Jefferson White
In Las Vegas and I gotta tell you, I have been absolutely floored. Wynn Las Vegas is hosting us here and every single little detail has been incredible. I can't think of a more amazing place to stay, to be totally honest. They're going to have a hard time getting rid of me. So let's dive in, let's get you up to speed. The whole point of this podcast is to bring you closer to the world of Yellowstone. As the universe of the show expands, as it keeps getting, you know, bigger and bigger. We're going to go deep with the current cast and crew. We're going to talk to the producers, we're going to talk to the creators, everyone that brings you the incredible world of Yellowstone. It's really wild to think that what started as an incredible professional opportunity for me has now turned out to be a truly life changing experience. I feel just so, so lucky to be a part of this. Talking to, learning from such incredible actors, creators, and honestly, just plain old good people. One of the tremendous gifts of Yellowstone is that for the last four years now, I feel so lucky to have been surrounded by such a remarkable community, such a remarkable family of incredible filmmakers, incredible performers, incredible cowboys, incredible technicians, but also, honestly, just, just really, really remarkable people. So this is going to be a wild ride. That said, you probably heard enough of me to last a couple lifetimes. So let me introduce our first guest.
- [02:08]
Luke Grimes
I feel incredibly fortunate, incredibly lucky, incredibly blessed today to have in the studio with me Luke Grimes. You know Luke from many roles in the past, but also right now, why we're here. The reason we're here is Luke plays Casey Dutton on Yellowstone. Luke, thank you so, so, so much for being here.
- [02:25]
Wes Bentley
Of course, man, this is awesome. And nobody better to do it with than you. I'm glad you're hosting this thing. This is perfect.
- [02:31]
Luke Grimes
Thanks, bro. What a pleasure it's been. Obviously, you know, at this point, we've known each other for four years. Yeah, I've had the pleasure of knowing you and sort of stepping into this world alongside you for the last four years. Will you just take a second and catch us up on everything before Yellowstone? On your journey leading up to Yellowstone, take as long or as short as you like.
- [02:51]
Wes Bentley
Well, that's it. Yeah. So I guess, you know, I'm from Ohio. That's where the journey started. I was one of those weird kids who always wanted to be an actor and just loved movies, you know, wanted to be a part of it. Moved to New York when I was 18, went to an acting school, moved to LA when I was 20 and started pounding the pavement. And then at some point along the way, Taylor found me, kind of picked me out of obscurity and let me be on this show which has been the greatest joy of my life.
- [03:23]
Luke Grimes
Talk to me about. So we first met before season one, sort of preparing for the work of season one. Talk to me about your experience with horses prior to the show and the work you did to sort of prepare yourself for the show.
- [03:37]
Wes Bentley
Very little horse experience before Yellowstone. I'd done a western before, but coincidentally in that movie it was the remake of Magnificent Seven. I wasn't supposed to really be good at horse riding, so they just didn't really let me get good at it. And I, you know, I rode one of those movie horses that just sort of walks up, hits a mark, you say your lines and it sits there and it's lazy, you know. And then obviously Yellowstone, we ride like real horses who don't tend to sit still as much. And so obviously we needed a little more preparation. I remember Taylor called me when I got the job. It was like six weeks out from us actually shooting and he's like, you need to go ride like every day. So in la he had me going to like a reigning coach twice a week. Then I would go see Jason Rodriguez at his ranch and we would do like roping and more cowboy style stuff and yeah, so just kind of every discipline then we'd see. You know, when we met Jake Ream, we started doing the cutting and yeah, it was, I mean, look, man, I feel like we're almost like, you know, we have stunt doubles. Taylor likes to use them as little as possible. So he wanted us to be as prepared as we could because he loves authenticity and he knows that the more that people see us actually on the horse, you know, the more they're going to buy everything. So it's been awesome, man. It's a skill set I never saw coming that has been such a joy to learn.
- [05:04]
Luke Grimes
And you're asked to do almost more than Anybody else on this show. I'm thinking of a sequence where you, like, ride up alongside a truck and rope the driver out of the truck. Like, you're asked to do an incredible amount of. Also very varied skills. Varied riding skills. You know, roping, riding, training horses. I think the very first time we see Casey, he's working with a stallion. Is that right?
- [05:30]
Wes Bentley
Yeah.
- [05:31]
Luke Grimes
So talk to me about approaching all those different sort of very specific skills.
- [05:36]
Wes Bentley
I mean, look, I do. I have a fantastic stunt double who's just like a real cowboy.
- [05:42]
Luke Grimes
Jordan Warrick is Jordan.
- [05:43]
Wes Bentley
Usually Jordan. Yes. What up, Jordan? He's awesome. Makes me look cool as shit. Yeah. And there's. I mean, obviously, when I ride up and rope that guy out of the truck, he did the roping there, which, I mean, who can do that, right? But he actually did it. It was like a backwards style that he had to do to get in the window. And there's no way I could have done that. But, yeah, like I said, Taylor likes me to do as much as I can. And little by little, every year, I've been able to do more. And to this day, my favorite moment was there's a sequence in this coming season, I think it's the next episode that airs, actually, where I kind of go wrangle up these mustangs and have to chase this group of mustangs, kind of herd them up and chase them through this huge pasture. And, you know, the stunt double did it once. Taylor's like, you want to try it? And I was scared to death, but of course I wanted to try it. And to this day, the greatest day I've ever had on a set. I mean, it was like. It was like catching a wave because this horse is trying to keep up with these wild horses, and it just becomes part of this herd. And I'm, for the first time in the show, like, full tilt, like, running as dead fast as it can. It was awesome. It was so cool.
- [06:57]
Luke Grimes
And that's. As an actor, that's an incredibly immersive experience. You know what I mean? Like, you're surrounded by nature as you described it. There's a wave of horses sort of cresting in front of you. There's very little faking it at that point. You don't really have to fake anything. You're actually on the horse, speeding through the underbrush or whatever.
- [07:16]
Wes Bentley
Yeah.
- [07:17]
Luke Grimes
Will you talk a little bit about the experience of being out in Montana to shoot, being out on our sets in our sort of wilderness, and how that informs your work as an actor?
- [07:27]
Wes Bentley
I mean, I'VE always said, I think the. The scenery, the, you know, Montana is probably the biggest character in our show. It's such a part of the show. And, yeah, being able to go shoot there, I mean, I fell so in love with that. I moved there. I literally moved to where we shoot. That's like, you know, obviously it got into me somehow. And, yeah, I mean, it's the romantic idea of the West. And I think part of the reason why people love the show so much is being able to kind of escape, you know, and sit in their living room and go to this place, I think is one of the most important parts of our show. And it's what the show is about sort of fighting for that. The romantic idea of what that could be. You know, the Yellowstone ranch kind of is at the crux of everything in the show, and everyone's fighting over it. And it's, you know, basically just the beauty of the west is at the core of everything we do here, you know?
- [08:24]
Luke Grimes
Yeah, absolutely. Nature and Montana itself and the ranch are at the sort of very heart of the show. And another theme is family. Another theme that's very, like, foundational to the show is family. So will you talk a little bit about working with Wes, working with Kelly, working with Dan, Dave, working with Kevin, and that sort of family that's at the core of the entire show that you've been working with for four years now?
- [08:49]
Wes Bentley
Man, it is such a blessing to show up to work with these people. I mean, I think people always say this about the jobs around. I feel so lucky to be able to go to work with all of these fantastic actors. There's so many talented people, you know, from our cast to our crew, to Taylor, who I think is the greatest writer out there. And I think he has kind of a sixth sense for sweet, kind people. I mean, it's just such a good group. And, you know, we obviously didn't get to shoot this year. We got pushed a little bit, and I really missed it, man. I felt myself. It was like something was missing, you know, And I. And I actually. I kind of like. I think about, like, when this show is over, over, and I get a little anxiety about the end of it because I just love this group of people so much, you know, And I know, you know that too. I mean, we actually really have a good time making this thing. Yeah.
- [09:46]
Luke Grimes
And that's, you know, when you're. It's a little bit the same as the environment. Like, you can't fake Montana. And it's also hard to fake Family, it's hard to fake these relationships that are sort of lifelong commitments. You know, we've talked a lot about how cowboying, horsemanship, that's a lifelong commitment, and so is family. Like, by the time we meet these characters, they've known each other their entire lives.
- [10:08]
Wes Bentley
Right.
- [10:09]
Luke Grimes
And something that really helps with that, something that really, I think, contributes to that authentic feeling, is the fact that we've now known each other for four years. Like, when you're in a scene with Wes or when you're in a scene with Kelly or Kevin, you guys have been working together for so long that that does some of the work for. There's a familiarity that you can't help but feel with your collaborators.
- [10:31]
Wes Bentley
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's a. You know, everyone seems to really care about this job equally. You know, there's no one there who kind of is phoning it in or doesn't want to be there, you know, and that's, you know, everyone's fully committed. And like I said before, I mean, it's just. It's a joy to work with these people because everyone really wants to make something great. And the fact that it's, you know, become the success that it's become is just a cherry on top. You know, we loved making it already, and now everyone is seeming to enjoy what we're doing, which just feels pretty fantastic.
- [11:09]
Luke Grimes
Yeah, it's an incredible gift after having. Yeah, we've been with this grip for, you know, four and a half years. And for it to sort of. To feel like part of this much, much larger community now, to feel like these fans are sort of joining this family that we've been a part of for years. I always find, you know, that the show is. It's incredibly violent at times. It's incredibly dark. You know, Beth, Jamie, these powers rip. These powers sort of tearing at each other in constant sort of contest with each other. It gives the show this incredible darkness, this incredible anger. But I think you're totally right that also at the core of it is this love. You know, people are making these decisions, and they're doing terrible, violent things for the sake of what they love. And I feel like Casey, particularly over and over again, makes these choices from a place of love. You know, he's kind of stuck in between Beth and Jamie's lifelong battle. You know, these two people who hate each other so much. Kind of the inverse of that love.
- [12:11]
Kelly Reilly
Is this, like, deep.
- [12:13]
Luke Grimes
When that flips on its head because of that betrayal. Casey is always trying so hard to sort of bring that back together or hold it together. So will you talk about knowing everything you do about Jamie, about Jamie and Beth's history, what it's like to do those scenes with Wes? Because it often feels like Casey is Jamie's only ally on the ranch?
- [12:35]
Wes Bentley
Yeah, I think. Yeah, you nailed it on the head. I mean, Casey's between a rock and a hard place from episode one. And he always tries to see the best in people. You know, he's the kind of guy who gives people the benefit of the doubt and always tries to make the right choice. And seemingly, in the world of Yellowstone, there is no right choice. You know, you just watch this guy struggle to try to take the right path. And, you know, he just. He represents the way I've always read it is kind of just the beating heart of this crazy world and trying to do what's right by his own family with Monica and Tate. But then the legacy that is so important to his father and, yeah, Jamie, Beth, you know, I don't get enough scenes with Kelly. I'll just say that I wish we had more. I think the only, you know, the only scenes that we've had together, like, really terrible dinners where she leaves. I would love to just have a scene where we sit and talk for a few minutes. That would be nice. Yeah. And you've definitely seen him interact a lot more with Jamie, and I think you've just noticed he just wants to see the best in people, you know, especially when it comes to his family.
- [13:49]
Cole Hauser
Yeah.
- [13:49]
Kelly Reilly
And it's funny because he's also caught.
- [13:51]
Luke Grimes
In this middle generation. He feels this tremendous responsibility to John Dutton that pulls him in one direction. His father's asking him for one thing, and his son Tate is asking him for something completely different. And so he's getting pulled in two. You know, his responsibility to his father and his responsibility to his son, his responsibility to his sister and his responsibility to his brother. It just feels like no matter what he does, even when he operates from a place of love, he's also sort of creating rifts on the other side of the equation. To be with Tate, he has to distance himself from John to be with John, to go and live on the ranch and be closer to John. He's making things more difficult for Tate and Monica.
- [14:30]
Wes Bentley
Right.
- [14:31]
Luke Grimes
So will you talk about just being caught in the middle and that tension?
- [14:34]
Wes Bentley
Yeah. I think, you know, what we've been watching is kind of a simmer that's come to a boil over four seasons of, like I said, him sort of being stuck in between trying to make the right choice in any given direction. And I think season four, where we end with Casey in season four, not to give too much away, he really. You see him at the. At the beginning stages of really making a hard decision about which sort of path he's going to choose, which I think will feel really nice to the audience for, you know, because finally you're going to watch this guy have to make a decision. You know, we've seen him sort of make smaller decisions and then back away, and he's, you know, gone from living at the reservation to the ranch, and then they move away again. And, you know, I think finally you're going to see him have to sort of man up and decide what he's going to do. And, you know, ultimately, I don't know where that goes. I wish I did. Taylor won't tell me, but it's pretty fun. I get to experience that, you know, sort of as the audience does.
- [15:41]
Luke Grimes
Yeah, it's amazing. He has this sort of dual loyalty that means that there is no right decision.
- [15:46]
Kelly Reilly
And I think that's just.
- [15:47]
Luke Grimes
Honestly, that's good writing, and that's true writing. Like, there are no good guys and bad guys. There are no. There's no black and white here. There's no correct answer, in part because there are a lot of people fighting for what they believe in, all of whom are right. And those things are mutually exclusive, you know.
- [16:06]
Wes Bentley
Yeah.
- [16:07]
Luke Grimes
Like John Dutton has, you know, is fighting for what he believes in. He believes that this. He has a responsibility to his family to protect this land. Rainwater is fighting for what he believes in. He believes he has a responsibility to his people to protect this land. Everybody is fighting for something that, when you look at it on the small scale, is exactly right. But when you zoom out, you start to realize, oh, they're incompatible. Yeah, not everybody can win. Yeah, you know.
- [16:32]
Wes Bentley
Yeah, exactly. I think that's sort of one of Taylor's, you know, big talents as a writer and just. Just, you know, a brilliant mind, is that he kind of raises more questions than he answers. And that's what I've always liked about our show. I think people going into our show sometimes will make an assumption about its political views. And what you find out is that it's not giving you a point of view. It's just asking a lot of questions and letting you decide the answers for yourself. And, yeah, it is a lot like life. You know, in life, we're all sort of the villain and we're all the good guy at times.
- [17:09]
Luke Grimes
That's exactly Right. It's not as convenient, it's not as easy as these are the good guys, these are the bad guys. These are all complicated people making decisions that they feel are right in the moment. And then sometimes, I mean, for Casey, something that has always compelled me so much about Casey is Casey makes the decisions that are right in the moment over and over again and over and over again that drags him back into violence, drags him back into danger, drags him into this life that he's been trying to escape.
- [17:34]
Wes Bentley
Yeah.
- [17:35]
Luke Grimes
For years and years. And ends up putting his family in. Trying to protect his family. He puts his family in danger.
- [17:41]
Wes Bentley
Yeah. You know, I think my favorite line of Casey's. I'm trying to not get it wrong here because obviously, you know, like I said, I love Taylor's one liners. He's. He's the best at it. There's something about, you know, I never. I've never. I've killed a lot of men, but I've never murdered one.
- [18:01]
Kelly Reilly
Yeah.
- [18:01]
Wes Bentley
You know, which is kind of. And he has. You've. You've seen him sort of have to deal with death a lot and sort of taking people out in protection of his family and stuff like that. But I think at the core of that, it's never. He doesn't like doing it. You know, it's not. It's not something that he. It kind of finds him in some way and they're usually pretty justified. I was saying before that there's never villains in our show, but every once in a while, just for fun, Taylor throws one in and then Rip gets to off them in some really awesome way. And that's very. That's pretty fun.
- [18:37]
Kelly Reilly
That's always very satisfying.
- [18:39]
Wes Bentley
Yeah.
- [18:39]
Luke Grimes
There's no bad guys. Except the bad guys.
- [18:41]
Wes Bentley
Yeah.
- [18:41]
Luke Grimes
And Rip kills them very quick and it's awesome.
- [18:44]
Kelly Reilly
Will you talk a little bit about.
- [18:45]
Luke Grimes
Working with, because you're also. You and I are in an interesting position here in this kind of middle generation. So you've got Kevin Costner, a legend. And part of what I find so fun about the show is that Kevin is a legend playing a legend. John Dutton is himself a legend in the state of Montana. He is an iconic figure that every character in the show looks up to already. But you're in this interesting middle position where you've also got Tate Breck and Merrill, who you are sort of caring for.
- [19:13]
Kelly Reilly
So will you talk about working with.
- [19:14]
Luke Grimes
A young actor and what that experience is like for you?
- [19:18]
Wes Bentley
Yeah, you know, I never really. I've never played a dad before, it was the first time I played someone who had children or a child. And I had a lot of questions from my friends who have kids. You know, I wanted to make sure to approach that in some way that felt genuine, because I don't. And there were. There are actually times and, you know, where I would read something in the script and talk to Taylor and be like, so, why do I do this? Like, why would I Remember the moment I read when Casey goes home at the end of season one? And I was like, why does he do that? Like, I don't understand, obviously. Like, I feel like he would rather die than admit defeat in that way. He said, for your son. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. So that's what I'm not getting. Like, their life becomes more important than your own. And so it's been kind of interesting to explore that, not having gone through that myself. And, I mean, Brecken's a fantastic little actor. Great dude. Love working with him. And, you know, you have to be pretty present when you work with young kids. He's obviously grown up a lot over.
- [20:27]
Kelly Reilly
Yeah, I was gonna say four years.
- [20:28]
Luke Grimes
Yeah.
- [20:28]
Wes Bentley
He's, like, six foot tall now. It's a different person. But, yeah, when he was a kid, it was great. You just have to be really present with him. And there was so much kind of like, truth in having to listen and really react in real time. You know, with kids, nothing feels rehearsed. You know, you're kind of. You're in it with them, and you gotta be on your toes a little bit. What did they say? They, like, never act with children or animals? I think I only acted with children and animals the whole first season. It's like, on a horse with a kid. And. Yeah, and obviously, like, working with Kevin, you're like, okay, you've done everything in this career. You've, you know, won an Oscar. You've been in so many great movies, and you're an icon and a legend. The challenge there was to sort of, like, make him my dad in my mind, and not Kevin Costner. And that's no fault of his own. He's a great actor, but it's. You know, it's hard not to look at Kevin Costner and, you know, think about, like, Field of Dreams or, like, any of these iconic roles he's played. Well, that was the fear. And then, you know, working with him, he. He's so committed and so good, and he cares so much that it goes away pretty quick. And that is to his credit.
- [21:40]
Luke Grimes
Yeah.
- [21:41]
Wes Bentley
Yeah.
- [21:41]
Kelly Reilly
Luke, thank you so, so, so much.
- [21:44]
Luke Grimes
For being here, man. It's such a joy to talk about this stuff with you. It's such a joy to sort of dig a little deeper with all this stuff. And I just. I can't thank you enough for your time.
- [21:50]
Wes Bentley
Of course, man. Thanks for having me. This has been fun.
- [21:52]
Jefferson White
What a pleasure. Incredible. Talking to Luke. Any normal podcast, that might be it for the day. Not here. What we're going to do now is.
- [22:02]
Kelly Reilly
We'Re going to bring you the other.
- [22:03]
Jefferson White
Side of the coin. We want to bring you the who picture. So we're going to take a breath, and when we come back, we're going to sit down with the infamous Jamie Dutton West Bentley.
- [22:15]
Kelly Reilly
Today we are speaking to Wes Bentley. Wes obviously plays Jamie Dutton. Wes plays one of the sort of most complicated, most complex, love to hate him. Brilliant characters, in my opinion, in the history of television. So it has been an incredible joy for me to watch Wes and learn from Wes as an actor over the course of the last four years. And it's also been an incredible gift to get to know who I am proud to call my good friend Wes. So, Wes, thank you so much for being here today.
- [22:50]
Cole Hauser
Oh, my God, man. I'm going to, like, tear up. That was such a nice thing to say, man. Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here. I'm really happy that you're doing this. You're so much fun, man. You're the exact guy who would need to run this whole podcast thing. Although I've never done a podcast before, so this is my first time.
- [23:10]
Kelly Reilly
Is this really your first podcast?
- [23:12]
Cole Hauser
Yeah. Be gentle with me.
- [23:13]
Luke Grimes
That's incredible, man.
- [23:15]
Kelly Reilly
It's an audio format, so if you do cry, just narrate it.
- [23:18]
Luke Grimes
You know what I mean?
- [23:19]
Kelly Reilly
Just sort of describe it.
- [23:21]
Cole Hauser
I am crying. One tear from the left eye is about halfway down my cheek. One is just forming in the right eye. So it will. It will get. It'll catch up. It's Jamie Dutton's fault now. I didn't ever. I told Taylor, and I've probably told every other director I worked with. I don't. I can't really just, like, cry command. It's not in my toolbox. And now that is just every scene. So, you know Wes Bentley now tears up at openings to podcasts.
- [23:49]
Kelly Reilly
I was gonna say that sounds like Taylor took that as a challenge, because I feel like Jamie, he took it as a challenge that he was gonna make you cry by putting Jamie through sort of the most difficult, most traumatic series of events. So talk to Me a little bit. You, obviously, obviously, the folks. The folks listening to this are familiar with the character. They have a lot of feelings about the character, I'm sure. But just for a second, will you just take a second and talk about your life? Sort of how you wound up on Yellowstone, everything before we met Jamie, as.
- [24:21]
Cole Hauser
Far as, like, becoming an actor. And, like, I'll start there because I think a lot of people are always interested in that. Like, why. When did you know, you know, that's the kind of thing I always think about anyway. And it's my brothers. You know, I had these great brothers, and we. We loved Monty Python because my dad loved Monty Python. And we like to joke around and improv with each other and try to make each other laugh, and it was a challenge. So, you know, we worked hard at it, and that showed me that I liked doing that. And, you know, I did, like, church plays. I grew up in the church and I did school plays and I did, you know, I did improv in high school and a few of these acting competitions. We did that in Arkansas, these weird, like, competitions with acting. And that went well. So my mom decided to take it upon herself to apply me to Juilliard, which I was just looking for, like, these little small colleges to maybe play soccer at and do a little bit of theater. And she's like, no, I think you should go for it. So we. She. She did the application. It was a lot of money for us. You have to pay to apply. And they did it anyway. And we drove up to Chicago and I did that audition. So I. And I got in. It was crazy and amazing. So moved to New York, did one year of Juilliard. It really wasn't for me. It was. It's very. It was very, you know, classical stage centric and very technical. And these weren't things that I was. I was responding to as an actor. And so I started to be curious about leaving, and I went with a friend to a Cattle Call audition. He was going to go to audition for the, you know, the touring show of Rent. And I'm not really a singer, but I was like, all right, I don't want to go to school, so let's go do that. So we went and did that, and outside, before we even went in, a casting director walked by and was trying to, like, pick out people, right, for something else. And she handed me the A card she had and asked me to come and read for this little independent film. And I was like, yeah, well, yeah, of course. And I did the Rent Audition, got a call back, by the way. I don't know, like what bar they had set on that cattle call, but it was definitely. So then I, you know, I went to read for that, that movie like right after, went directly to it. And seven callbacks later, I did it. It was a little tiny movie with Kate Walsh, who was in Grey's Anatomy, and. And it was, it kind of sent me off. I got an agent right away. And then that kicked everything into gear. And I worked hard in New York. I went, you know, to auditions and I tried to do it. I told myself, you got one year if it doesn't work because I didn't have money, you know, it was really hard to live in New York like that. As you know, I'm sure at times it's, you know, it's rough. And so I then got a role. I came in for this character who was from Arkansas, which is where I'm from, and, you know, was gonna be shot in Arkansas. And man, I really pushed myself in that. In those auditions I was like, I'm not really, I don't sell myself very well. But in those moments, I was so desperate. I did, I really pushed the Arkansas thing. And I, you know, I think it came down to me and a couple guys and I got that was that with Antonio Banderas and Ellen Barkin and Bob Hoskins. It was like, great, you know, great cast. But I did that and then had a little period. I decided to go check out la, had some money, tiny bit of money. I went to go see LA and they gave me a script before when I was leaving on the plane and it was called American Beauty and I saw who was attached. And at the time, you know, this is the highest caliber cast I'd seen in a project that sounded like what I was looking for, you know, not just desperate for a job, but it was a dark comedy. And in the 90s, those were all, you know, were gold, especially the well written ones like we had. And so on that plane ride out there, I teared up in a couple scenes and I just thought to myself, I got to get this. And so I got to la. My manager was like, well, you don't have an audition, but why don't you just go in there and tell them that you thought you had an audition and, you know, all these tricks, right? And, and, and so I did that and it worked. I mean, man, I'm grateful. Was that a long answer or what?
- [28:39]
Kelly Reilly
That's a fantastic answer and I'm so glad to know this about you. First of all, I'm amazed that we haven't talked about this before, but also there. There's an incredible sort of synergy between your experience and. Bear with me here for a second. Jamie's experience. So you grew up with brothers with whom you sort of shared a camaraderie. You shared a sense of belonging. You really felt like yourself with your brothers. And then you sort of. Us went on to pursue your dreams, us went on to follow what it was you truly felt called to. And Jamie was asked to do something else. John Dutton said to Jamie, I need you to fill this different role for me. I see what you could do. And he sort of diverted his destiny in some way, sent him to law school, right? Sent him away to go and practice something completely alien to him, something that wasn't what brought him joy or sort of filled him up. And out of a sense of responsibility, Jamie did what his father asked him to do. And in a lot of ways, that changed his trajectory and sort of separated him, alienated him, isolated him from the life he had known and the sort of sense of shared destiny with his brothers. So that's just a fascinating kind of, you know, it's a little bit of a two roads diverging in a yellow wood moment, because it feels like so much of what defines Jamie is this sense of duty and responsibility being directly in conflict with his instincts or what he really wants or what he really longs for, and the tension that arises when those two things collapse into each other. So will you just talk a little bit about, you know, the different sort of big motivating forces that continue to pull Jamie apart and pull Jamie in different directions? You know what I mean?
- [30:41]
Cole Hauser
Yeah. And, Jefferson, what great insight. I mean, I'm not surprised. You always have such great insight. I do use that. You know, I use that. My own. My own ability to say, yeah, I'm gonna go for it. And I. I'm gonna. And then going and doing it. The action following. And it's been a challenge because Jamie didn't do that. Therefore, that's a big break between us. Right. Like, I. I do that a lot. Jamie is the. Is the opposite. His. You know, he was. He was pulled in. He was told who he was, and it wasn't who he wanted to be. You know, I had my own backstory ideas that Jamie was probably a good baseball player and. Or an athlete of some kind. And he probably saw himself, you know, following that dream at some point and being one of the cowboys, you know, and being one of the Guys that his got, his dad seemed to admire and look up, look to turn to and you know, it's devastating. And so to explore that devastation, I see it as devastation of not following your dream and becoming what's told you to be is opposite of anything I accept in life. So, you know, I had to really, really break ground on that to get to Jamie and understand how he could have come to accept it. And I found some things, you know, along the way and Taylor's given me lots of things, a lot more than to play with that and you know, and so it's, you know, that's really hard. But in diving into Jamie, I think he had a hard time with it. I think he also has over his 40 years come to accept it. And also seeing the, you know, he's a strategist. Jamie see the moves ahead. He's four or five moves ahead. Right. And so he's always, I think he saw, okay, I'm doing this, but I'm going to get something out of this. And you know, I might get the ranch out of this because I'm going to save the ranch. You know, if you're going to, if you're going to make me be this, then I'm going to do everything I can to make that ranch the best thing possible, Jamie. And so that's, that sort of sets Jamie on a pattern of I think becoming a very materialistic person. You know, when you're not doing what you can do in your heart to make it dressed up and decorated and feel amazing, well then you're going to do it to the rest of you, right? Your face, your hair, your suit, your whatever you're. And you're going to like try to make all that, all that substance, substance or whatever, you know, the material look good instead since the inside is gone. That's the path that started going with Jamie. And it was like it was a, it was a, it was a papered over crack that was bound to be torn open, which is what started to happen.
- [33:51]
Kelly Reilly
Yeah, it's fascinating. It feels like part of what defines Jamie, especially as you articulated there is this suppression of his maybe instincts, suppression of his desires. And what has supplanted that or what has come to the surface is leading with his intellect because he's a sort of brilliant mind as you say. He's a brilliant strategist and he's had to sort of for the sake of his father, for the sake of his family. What he's been asked to do is suppress and deny what he wants and to sort of take on this role as a kind of ruthless, efficient, calculating, legal genius to protect the ranch. And then, of course, those instincts bubbling up underneath, that need for love, that desire to impress his father, all of that stuff, of course, doesn't go away. It's bubbling under the surface, and it causes him to act out in these explosive expressions of that. And something that I think you do so expertly as an actor is Jamie acting. A lot of people talk about operating on impulse. It's about following your impulses. It's about letting your impulses guide you. And Jamie is somebody who suppresses all of his impulses. He keeps it all under control. He is sort of always performing. The character is always performing. But then I think of these explosive scenes that have become some of my favorite scenes of the show when it breaks out, when 20 years of suppressing his anger, 20 years of suppressing his instincts explodes out of him. And I'm thinking right now, I think it's season one in the barn with you and Beth, and it feels like Beth is somebody who spends a lot of time trying to crack through that facade and get down to the real Jamie. So then talk to me in season four, obviously, the question of Jamie's family and the family loyalty that Jamie feels gets complicated that much more because, you know, this huge revelation of Jamie's biological father and his developing relationship with Garrett. So will you talk a little bit about what that means to Jamie, what it feels like, you know, to have this, maybe this new chance to win love, how that sort of affects his relationship with JD and. Yeah, sort of. That, that introduction, that complication to the question of Jamie's family.
- [36:24]
Cole Hauser
Well, to get there, I'll just go back a little bit to. As we go through, you know, when. When Jamie has killed the reporter and then feels a sense of danger from his own family, they're not going to protect him. That now they see him as a liability. That's like one of the big chipped away moments where he doesn't, you know, everyone else gets protected, but Jamie wasn't all of a sudden feeling that way. He felt under threat. And. And, you know, on top of the trauma that he caused himself with the murder, there's a now another trauma happening that's even ripping away that loyalty even more, because now he feels under threat from his own family who cover everybody up. You know, they. They literally cover people they don't know.
- [37:09]
Kelly Reilly
Up, like just, yeah, they save Jimmy's.
- [37:12]
Luke Grimes
Ass over and over again.
- [37:13]
Kelly Reilly
Do you think they could do it for Jamie right? They kill a. You know, they'll kill anybody Jimmy's pissed at. You know, it's like wild, the double standard. It applies to everybody except Jamie.
- [37:25]
Cole Hauser
It's right on, man. And you have no idea the resentment Jamie holds for Jamie, by the way. I just want to let you know that right now we've been in one.
- [37:33]
Kelly Reilly
Scene, or maybe we've had two scenes together, and I felt it. I felt your blistering contempt for me.
- [37:40]
Cole Hauser
Yeah. It was my actor's secret.
- [37:41]
Kelly Reilly
Yeah.
- [37:44]
Cole Hauser
Go back and watch those scenes. You'll feel it. Yeah.
- [37:46]
Kelly Reilly
So here. Here's a question for you. Not to get too meta here, but John Dutton asked Jamie to be the bad guy. He asked Jamie to go become a fucking hard ass, become a politician, become everything that John Dutton hated. And Taylor Sheridan has asked you, Wes Bentley, to be a very difficult character, a character that people are going to hate sometimes. I mean, and you. You can't help but be so likable that they're going to love you sometimes, too. But Taylor has asked you to step into this incredibly complicated, incredibly difficult character who is, you know, sometimes easy to hate. What does that feel like for you? What does it feel like to sort of carry that responsibility? The responsibility. In a lot of ways, you're a scapegoat for all the sort of difficult things the Duttons go through. How does that feel?
- [38:40]
Cole Hauser
Yeah, that's a great question, man. And thanks for another compliment. Like, that's nice. It's, you know, like one of the first rules I learned as an actor from someone, I can't remember who it was, probably Juilliard, was to not judge your character. And I thought that was okay. All right, that makes sense, because if you don't judge your character, then you don't make a caricature. Right. Of a version of a person. So I try to, like, do. I try to do everything I can to not do that. It's really hard with Jamie. But, you know, like, so in that I say, like, when I'm. As I play the role and, you know, I try to avoid a lot. I try to avoid a lot to. To keep my head in. In the character and try to fully be from his point of view who he is. He's got his own judgments of himself. I'm talking about Wes's judgment of him. So it's kind of a pure mindset as you. As you're doing the role. And, you know, I'm only seeing from Jamie's point of view. And then I started peppered in from people that ooh Jamie, huh? And from my reaction is like, oh, yeah, yeah, huh, Jamie. And I'm thinking like, oh, what's going on? Like, because I'm still kind of trying to avoid any of those judgments they may have. And I'm not even reading it in the scripts, right. And I'm just doing what I'm doing. Yeah, I know he does bad things and yeah, he's. All those fights are happening, but I'm not really realizing that he's like becoming the villain until everyone's telling me he's the villain, which I think is pretty cool, right? I mean, like, I had no idea Taylor was never like, look, you're going to be. You're going to be the guy everyone hates and you're going to, you know, you're going to be. You're going to do this and that. And really, honestly, even from my point of view, I could see. But before I really fully knew what happened between Beth and Jamie. And I'll tell you, I didn't know. I didn't know the exact thing that happened. I just sort of like kind of felt for him in that relationship, you know, like myself. And I was like the victim of this relationship. And so, you know, being in that mindset, it's really hard to think of it as like, oh, I'm going to be the this guy to the audience. And that's also something I avoid. I love our audience and I love audiences. I do it for you, but I am not thinking about you at all while I'm trying to portray this human being. I've got all my energy and being as honest as I can about them in a moment that's is crucial to their story. And so, you know, it's been a surprise to realize to what level I should say at the end of three when I read what happened, that there was the moment I full realization, oh, you know, here it is. But I'm still seeing it from Jamie's point of view in a way too, that he was making some clever moves that were to the benefit of the ranch. But. But he's also a guy who's really mad, really mad and really hurt and powerful and so he's dangerous. But to answer your question fully, I actually enjoy it now. You know, I'm so aware of it now and I've been doing press and, you know, more aware of it than ever of, you know, what level of conflict is going on about Jamie. You know, I'm not social media or check the Internet ever, so I don't know about these Things, but I guess there's a fight between whether Jamie's someone to redeem or not. And I, you know, I count that as a success.
- [42:20]
Kelly Reilly
Oh, and I think it's amazing what you said about the audience because part of that is that you're not condescending to the audience to presume what they want from you. You're not trying to control anyone's experience of you. You are sort of advocating for the character. You're making decisions that make sense for the character in the moment without zooming out. And you're leaving it up to the audience. You're leaving it up to the other characters on the show to have the eagle eye view of Jamie and to make their own decisions about him. Wes.
- [42:50]
Cole Hauser
Yeah.
- [42:51]
Kelly Reilly
This has been such an incredible treat. You are, I just want to say one more time, like you have, the character has been through more on this show than any other character. And I have learned so much from watching your performance, but also just watching the way you navigate how fucking weird it is to move to Montana for four months a year. And you've taught me so much, both as an actor and as a person. So I'm so, so grateful to you.
- [43:19]
Luke Grimes
For a million reasons.
- [43:20]
Kelly Reilly
And thank you for taking the time to do this.
- [43:23]
Cole Hauser
My man. I gotta give this back to you. Same thing. We connected right away. As soon as you showed up to cowboy camp, you and I just. I saw you, I knew you. I wanted to get to know you more. And as I've gotten to know you more, I just think you're. You're such a great guy. You're such a great actor. What you've done with Jimmy, I think, is you've elevated the character. You brought him out of the shadows because you play him on. You know, I think you understand a lot of things I'm saying because you also play as honest as you can to the core of the character. And you just. The growth you've given him, the growth he's gone from that first season to the cowboy. What? You know, it's like, I saw you at cowboy camp, by the way. But anyways, I admire you as well. Those scenes we had together, I want more because you're one of those actors that I've learned from as well. And I, you know, and I admire also. I'm so jealous that you're doing this podcast thing because I think that you're. I think that you're probably the best guy for it, and I'm really happy that you're doing it because the show really needs it. I mean, there's a lot of talk about this show, huh?
- [44:35]
Kelly Reilly
Oh, yeah. And there's a lot to talk about. All right, bro. Thank you so much. Talk to you very soon. I can't wait.
- [44:41]
Cole Hauser
Thank you so much, Jeffrey. I probably. I miss you, man.
- [44:43]
Kelly Reilly
Miss you, too, brother. Bye now.
- [44:47]
Jefferson White
I feel so, so lucky for the opportunity to talk to the Dutton boys today. As a little teaser, next week, I'm.
- [44:53]
Luke Grimes
Going to see sit down with none.
- [44:54]
Jefferson White
Other than Beth and Rip Kelly Riley and Cole Hauser. I can't wait to chat with them. You don't want to miss that. So make sure to subscribe and tune in to the Official Yellowstone Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. The Official Yellowstone Podcast is hosted by me, Jefferson White and produced by 101 podcast studios and Paramount Network.