Bringing Authentic Native American Life and Relationships to Yellowstone - Gil Birmingham and Mo Brings Plenty

Summary

The Yellowstone Official Podcast: Bringing Authentic Native American Life and Relationships to Yellowstone Host: Jefferson White | Guests: Gil Birmingham and Mo Brings Plenty | Release Date: February 3, 2022

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of The Yellowstone Official Podcast, co-host Jefferson White delves into the authentic representation of Native American life and relationships within the hit series Yellowstone. Joining Jefferson are two pivotal figures from the show: Gil Birmingham, who portrays Chairman Thomas Rainwater, and Mo Brings Plenty, who plays Mo Rainwater, Thomas’s driver and bodyguard. This episode offers listeners a behind-the-scenes look at how the show honors Native American culture and the responsibilities that come with such representation.

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Conversation with Gil Birmingham

Gil Birmingham's Journey to Yellowstone

Gil Birmingham shares his multifaceted career trajectory that ultimately led him to Yellowstone. Starting with bodybuilding and a memorable appearance in Diana Ross's music video, Gil's path took a significant turn when he ventured into acting with roles that resonated deeply with Native American representation. “[...] I really understood the responsibility of it,” Gil reflects at [00:50].

Collaborative Relationships with Taylor Sheridan

A recurring theme in Gil’s discussion is his longstanding collaboration with Taylor Sheridan, the show's creator. Beginning with Hell or High Water and continuing through Wind River, this partnership has been instrumental in shaping Gil’s roles. He emphasizes Taylor’s unique ability to recognize and cultivate talent: “Taylor is just so specific about the actors that he cast and he lets them do the work” ([05:18] Gil Birmingham).

Depth and Diversity of Roles

Gil highlights the diversity of characters he has portrayed under Sheridan’s direction. From a police officer in Hell or High Water to a land steward in Yellowstone, each role demands a different facet of his acting prowess. “[...] I wanted to represent in the best possible way,” Gil states at [05:44], underscoring his commitment to authentic portrayal.

Evolution of Thomas Rainwater

As the seasons progress, Gil discusses the evolution of Thomas Rainwater’s character, noting the increasing complexity and responsibility he embodies. “[...] Rainwater is trying to protect the land even if John Dutton is wiped out,” Gil explains at [20:36], highlighting the strategic and philosophical growth of his character.

Relationship with John Dutton

The dynamic between Thomas Rainwater and John Dutton is a focal point of their conversation. Initially antagonistic, their relationship evolves into a complex alliance against external threats. Gil articulates this nuanced relationship: “They both see themselves as stewards of this land” ([22:14] Gil Birmingham), emphasizing shared responsibilities despite differing backgrounds.

Notable Quotes:

• “Taylor is just so specific about the actors that he cast and he lets them do the work.” — Gil Birmingham ([05:18])
• “We both see ourselves as stewards of this land.” — Gil Birmingham ([22:14])

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Conversation with Mo Brings Plenty

Mo's Heritage and Journey to the Show

Mo Brings Plenty opens up about his roots, growing up on the Pine Ridge and Cheyenne River Reservations in South Dakota. His deep connection to his Lakota heritage informs his portrayal of Mo Rainwater. “[...] I grew up going to school, rode horses a lot” ([24:48] Mo Brings Plenty).

Mastery of Horsemanship and Ranch Life

Mo recounts his lifelong relationship with horses, influenced by his family, particularly his uncle, a renowned saddle bronc rider. This expertise seamlessly translates to his role on the show, where horse riding is integral. “[...] we have a direct descendant, a horse that is a direct descendant from Sitting Bull's original herd” ([31:01] Mo Brings Plenty), emphasizing the cultural and historical significance of his equestrian skills.

Representation and Cultural Responsibility

Mo discusses the importance of bringing genuine Native American experiences to Yellowstone. He emphasizes his commitment to portraying loyal, compassionate, and strategic aspects of his character, reflecting real-life experiences of Native communities. “[...] We want to be always. We always want to be available for them, to be there to assist them” ([31:41] Mo Brings Plenty).

Learning and Observing on Set

Admiring the production crew, Mo expresses a desire to learn more about filmmaking and directing. He values the collaborative environment of the set, likening it to a harmonious herd of buffalo. “[...] Every department within the crew is so important. And you see all these moving parts, how they're able to function” ([34:34] Mo Brings Plenty).

Anecdotes and On-Set Experiences

Mo shares humorous and memorable moments from filming, such as rigging a calf during a storm and witnessing the stunt team's nerves. These stories highlight the camaraderie and unexpected challenges faced during production. “[...]

Notable Quotes:

• “The relationship that Rainwater and Mo has on the show is very much many relationships that we have in real life.” — Mo Brings Plenty ([31:41])
• “My grandfather always told me, he said, when you wake up in the morning, don't expect anything. You should just be.” — Mo Brings Plenty ([24:48])

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Conclusion

This episode of The Yellowstone Official Podcast masterfully captures the essence of authentic Native American representation in Yellowstone. Through heartfelt conversations with Gil Birmingham and Mo Brings Plenty, listeners gain a profound understanding of the cultural responsibilities and personal journeys that enrich the show's narrative. By intertwining personal anecdotes with professional insights, the podcast not only highlights the actors' dedication but also underscores the importance of genuine storytelling in contemporary television.

For those eager to explore the depths of Yellowstone's cultural landscape, this episode is an invaluable resource. Tune in every Sunday for more behind-the-scenes discussions, episode recaps, and exclusive guest insights.

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“We both see ourselves as stewards of this land.” — Gil Birmingham ([22:14])

“The relationship that Rainwater and Mo has on the show is very much many relationships that we have in real life.” — Mo Brings Plenty ([31:41])

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Transcript

[Jefferson White]

Hey, y'all. Once again, welcome back to the official Yellowstone Podcast, presented by Wynn Las Vegas. I'm Jefferson White, your guide on this journey, this journey into the world of Yellowstone. I'm coming to you again from the podcast studio here at Wynn Las Vegas. Don't worry, they haven't been holding me hostage. I've actually, it's kind of the opposite. I've been camping out here. They've been trying to get rid of me, but I got a sleeping bag and a minibar. I'm set. I've been here a few times over the last month, and every time, I wind up finding a new thing that I love about this place. So one of the incredible gifts of working on Yellowstone for me has been getting to learn more about the various cultures and communities that the show represents. I'm new to cattle ranching, as you well know. I'm new to the rodeo world. And I also, I have to say, I've been very, very ignorant and naive when it comes to Native American culture and the issues that face contemporary Native American culture. So I am so, so grateful for our next guests today. I am honored to chat with two people that obviously do an incredible job at representing their culture on this show. None other than Chairman Thomas Rainwater. That's Gil Birmingham and his badass driver slash bodyguard, Mo Brinks. Plenty. I'm going to step aside for a moment, and then we're going to dive right in.

[Gil Birmingham]

Okay. Amazing. I feel so lucky, so grateful to have with me today Gil Birmingham, who plays Thomas Rainwater. Gil, thank you so, so, so much for taking the time.

Oh, it's a real pleasure to be able to sit here and chat with you, Jeff. I haven't seen you for a while. I know.

What a gift. That's one of the amazing. One of the most fun things about this podcast has been the opportunity to sit down between seasons when we haven't seen each other for months. But it sounds like you've been incredibly busy in the interim.

I have.

[Mo Brinks]

I have.

[Gil Birmingham]

I've been. I don't think I've traveled more or socialized more since this whole Covid thing went down. But, of course, following all the protocols. But it's nice to be back in the grand US Of A. Yeah, I.

Was going to say you. So, folks at home know you from many roles. Folks at home know you from a long career of incredible highlights. Will you just take a second at your own pace, at your own length? Just describe everything that brought you up to Yellowstone.

Yeah, it's always fascinating for me. I Think it happened after I got out of college and I got involved in bodybuilding. I think a lot of fans are pretty familiar with that already. But I got scouted into the gym to participate in the music video with Diana Ross. And I loved being on set and my girlfriend at the time said, you know, why don't you, why don't you start taking classes? And I did. And that's kind of where it started. But I don't know that I took it as seriously, the craft itself until I started doing projects that were more representational for the native community. And then I really understood the responsibility of it. So, yeah, I've been very blessed with a varied career and leading up to Yellowstone, there's. Well, of course I had encountered Taylor, you know, back in 2017, 2016, with hell or Highwater, and then he brought me in on Wind River. So that relationship started some five years ago, which I feel so, so grateful for and very blessed by. And it's led itself into Yellowstone.

[Mo Brinks]

Yeah.

[Gil Birmingham]

What a gift to work with the same director, writer for an extended period of time. I guess it's a rare gift as an actor. You know, you sort of jump from project to project. It's a kind of. It can feel like a sort of freelance mercenary lifestyle, but the opportunity to settle in with a collaborator over time feels like such a rare opportunity. So will you just talk about how you first met Taylor, how you sort of. What brought about the beginning of the collaboration that has since matured into where.

[Jefferson White]

You find yourself now?

[Gil Birmingham]

Well, it definitely started with Hell or High Water. And as you were describing, it is really kind of a life, the circus lifestyle. And that project had so many interesting elements to it. We had Chris Pine, who only had a two week window to film before he went off, I think, to Wonder Woman. And so it came together so fast, I think within the course of like five weeks. And we had to get everything lined up and then we shot for five weeks. But the project really highlighted, you know, even beyond Sicario with Taylor. And that's when I became, you know, where I came to understand Taylor and the way he writes. And then I was so, so thrilled to be brought back on Wind river, another incredible project. And yeah, I think most of our collaborating has come at a time in filming Yellowstone because we have a little more time, we have more episodes, we have a longer duration. And after four years, I think Taylor is just so specific about the actors that he cast and he lets them do the work. He does the layout, he does the writing, and he trusts his actors.

What I find really interesting about that is Taylor has a lot of collaborators that he works with on project after project, and a lot of those. I think you're totally right that he sees people's energies and he brings in. I think he's amazing at casting. Something interesting about the roles that you've played for Taylor is they're all quite different. They all sort of fill quite different positions in the story. Does that feel true to you?

Yeah, you know, I think when you're in the project, when you're doing it, that's the world you live in. And now that you mention it, that's pretty interesting. They are very different. And I think One river scared the hell out of me when Taylor called me up about it, and I said, oh, yeah, that's really incredible writing. I like to do Graham, the police officer, the tribal police officer. And he said, nope, you're not doing that one. You're doing this one. And I think it was because just the heartbreak of the subject matter and feeling that was the weight that I would have to take on, and I wanted to represent in the best possible way. And he just had trusted. And he had more trust in me than I had in me. And from that point on, I just said, whatever it is you want, Taylor, you think I can do it, then I can do it.

Yeah, I think that's incredible because especially, you know, the idea of representation. So in Hell or High Water, you played a police officer. In Wind river, you played a man living on a reservation, sort of struggling from a sort of different part of the socioeconomic spectrum. And then in Yellowstone, you play somebody on the opposite side of the socioeconomic spectrum, somebody who has had, you know, the benefit of wealth and finds themselves in a position of status and authority. I think that's a fascinating. It really shows a whole spectrum of experiences, because you talked earlier about feeling a sense of responsibility to tell these stories, to tell, you know, Native, indigenous stories. And those three different roles represent three completely different experiences. So will you talk a little bit about the sort of breadth of experiences that you've had the opportunity to. To step into?

Wow, that's a really. You have the good questions here, Jeff.

Oh, thanks, Gail.

That's what I've heard about you, and now I believe it. Gosh, I don't know. You're so intertwined with the character at the time you do it, and then you kind of release it so to reflect back on it. But you're right. And it has so much to do with the dynamics of the other actors that you're working with as well. Jeff Bridges was incredible. You know, Jeremy Renner, which is primarily who I did my scenes with, and Wind River, Kevin Costner, Happy Birthday, Kevin, on Yellowstone. So they're all iconic performers. And to bring your own game to it in the context of the representation is. I don't know. What would I say about that? I don't know. It just feels like you have to get to the heart, the heart of the character and the connection that he has to his people. Maybe not so much on Hell or High Water, but definitely Wind river and definitely in Yellowstone. So that's a bigger breath in terms of the representation. So, yeah, I learned something all the time. And then dealing with subject matter like we did in season two, I think, with the missing and murdered indigenous women, you know, these are powerful subject matters to write about and to represent. This feels like a responsibility, I guess that's the key word, I would say, I feel about it.

And that's an interesting synergy between you, the actor and the character, because it certainly feels like Thomas Rainwater is also bound by a sense of responsibility, by a sense of duty to his history, to his people. It really feels like the character also carries a tremendous amount of responsibility on his shoulders.

[Mo Brinks]

Do you feel. Does that make.

[Gil Birmingham]

Does that sort of resonate with your experience of it?

Yeah, and it's in the context of contemporary time where these corporate forces are coming in, and John and Rainwater actually have a similar, though not identical, respect for the land and a purpose for wanting to keep it. It's more of a legacy, something that's come down through the family for John. But it's really where the power of my people reside, in the connection with the land. So that might be the only difference, but it's a crucial difference. But, yeah, it's. It's. It's pretty daunting sometimes.

It's.

[Mo Brinks]

Yeah.

[Gil Birmingham]

And it feels like the character is often. I mean, I. I just. I'm always interested where, you know, the experience of an actor in real life resonates with the experience of a character in a project. You know, it's like, you can call that a lot of different names. People call it a lot of different things. I'm always just sort of curious about it because I feel like it adds a layer to the performance that, like, deepens, deepens a character. You know, when we look at Rainwater and he's experiencing the weight of responsibility that is deepened and enriched by the fact that you, the actor, are, to a certain extent, feeling the weight of responsibility that you're describing. I'm always just sort of curious about that. And it also feels like, you know, as you just mentioned, Yellowstone, I think, in so many interesting ways. Kind of complicates these archetypal narratives. You know, in the first season, there's this, you know, just direct kind of setup of and, you know, an antagonistic relationship between John Dutton and Rainwater in the first season, they're gonna butt heads. You know, it's a little. That's maybe the most archetypal conflict we see is those two sort of butting heads. And then it very quickly, season after season starts to get more complicated, to get sort of richer and more personal, to get less kind of mythic, to get less sort of, you know, cowboys and Indians clashing. It very quickly, as you just described, sometimes your purposes align, sometimes you feel a sort of, you know, I think over and over again, actually, they found themselves allies against other external antagonists. So will you talk about. Because I personally find that the relationship between John Dutton and Rainwater is kind of one of the most complicated relationships on the show because it's changed so many times from scene to scene.

Yeah, it has. And from season to season, I think the way I see Thomas is that he understands he's not going to be able to out fight John Dutton, even though he has these pending forces trying to take the land. But culturally speaking, I think I was just reading John Trudell was a great native poet. And it's about thinking clearly and coherently, using our intelligence. So I think Thomas is approaching it in terms of out thinking the forces and not to. You're not going to have the, I guess, resources to go up against what John Dutton has. But we can make alliances to fight people who are really wanting to just corporalize the land, you know, to monetize it. And neither one of us want that. It's pretty fascinating.

[Mo Brinks]

Yeah, because especially over time, you know.

[Gil Birmingham]

Rainwater's arsenal of weapons has expanded too. Like as the character of Mo deepens and you start to sort of learn more about Moe's sense of right and wrong, Moe's sort of specific code of ethics. You know, we very quickly start to understand John Dutton's Thomas Rainwater's early on. And then over time, we start to also see, okay, Mo in some ways, pulls Rainwater one direction. A character like Angela Blue Thunder in season three has a completely different sort of approach, a different ideology. You know, it really represents this kind of full spectrum of tactics and tools for protecting this land, for protecting this sense of history.

Yeah, it's quite dramatic. And of course, that's all laid out from Taylor's writing. But, yeah, I would think of it in terms of strategizing is generally what Thomas is doing.

Yeah, he's got these different chess pieces, and there's certain problems you solve with. You know, you solve by sending in Mo, and Mo's going to grab a guy, black bag him, drag him out to the country, you know, pull him behind a horse, beat the crap out of him.

[Mo Brinks]

And then it also was.

[Gil Birmingham]

I was so excited in season three, that introduction of Angela Blue Thunder as this kind of, you know. You know, like sort of legal assassin, a kind of Beth Dutton style, like sort of courtroom warrior. I've been so interested in that sort of diversity of tactics over time.

Yeah, I think Mo's background, you know, being educated in the Ivy League schools, is where he brings this strategy and this thought of paradigm of understanding how the white man's world works, and that's what he's going to use to try to reacquire the land. So it makes for a lot of different strategies or thoughts or approaches to how he's going to accomplish those things.

Yeah, I find that. And it also just like. I think this is also the great gift of duration. Right. So as an actor, it's a tremendous gift to get to do 10 episodes of a television show. Here we are, you know, going on. We've done 40. One of the gifts of that is that over time, people change. You know, people sort of people through experiences, through the passage of time, through conflict, you know, like tectonic plates smashing into each other. People change. So will you talk a little bit about how Rainwater's different at the end of season four than he was at the beginning of season one? Maybe he's not. But will you talk about, you know, that. That idea?

Well, it's interesting because we've kind of incorporated Casey's healing ceremonies, and I think that's a very interesting direction for Taylor to take. And also because it's such an integral part of the Dutton family. So we're having an individual healing of a member of the family. It's very intricate to the collective group. And I think that could be a real pivotal point for how the expression from Casey comes and the way he deals and. And sees things and how he might be influenced by those healings and the individual change that he makes that may be going along with the same way that we feel or that Thomas feels that this healing has to come for all of us to have this clarity of Thinking to know what to do to know to do the right thing.

That's so interesting because. Yeah, it sometimes feels like Casey and Monica are kind of stuck in between two worlds, you know, and John Dutton has the way that he, you know, heals with Casey or sort of encourages Casey to learn and grow in certain ways. But you're totally right that this season. And you know, Rainwater has been very kind to Casey from the beginning. Has sort of been an ally to Casey, particularly because I think, you know, he sees a sort of. Whether it's a friend, a sort of mentee, or whether it's a strategic sort of opportunity. There's things he can say to Casey that he can't say to John Dutton that will make their way into the family and sort of permeate, you know, permeate outwards. That's so interesting. I hadn't thought about that. Like Casey as this kind of shared space between John Dutton and Rainwater, Casey has this kind of common ground almost. That's a fascinating image.

Yeah. And take to take going through the, you know, the boy.

[Jefferson White]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gil Birmingham]

That's a really. Because it also. I think there is that question of generational passage and also generational trauma, generational sort of wounds that are explored, you know, and especially in season four, as we start to see flashbacks to Duttons from the past interacting with, you know, people who were here long before they were when they first arrived in Montana, we start to see these kind of generational relationships. And yeah, it's fascinating to then project that into the future, into Casey, this younger generation, and Tate even younger than that. And how these sort of. How conflict changes over time and continues to shift and how these like archetypal forces that clash, how that clash continues to be complicated, you know, because yeah, maybe in the end, capitalism comes along and sweeps off every other player on the board to a certain extent. Right. You talk about these corporate interests, these billion dollar trust funds or whatever it is coming in and trying to just excise everything else. That's a sort of fascinating. The nature of the conflict has changed, you know.

Yeah. I think, you know, in that healing process too, you're connecting both more authentically, I think, with the land, which is the heart of the individual, of the human being itself. So the way you see the world and the decisions you make from that point on could be very drastic.

[Mo Brinks]

Yeah.

[Gil Birmingham]

And Rainwater and Dutton have that in common.

[Jefferson White]

Right.

[Gil Birmingham]

They see the land as. They have a responsibility to the land. They feel a sense of duty to the land. They are stewards. They Both see themselves as stewards of this land. And that's, you know, there is definitely compatibility there. And then I think great writing is two people who are, you know, might agree under certain circumstances, finding themselves in a kind of mutually exclusive conflict or a conflict that starts to feel like a zero sum game. You know, they agree about so much. And then there are also points where, you know, unfortunately, they both can't, you know, take care of the land in the way that they initially desire to, you know.

Well, in the corporate world, though, John's not going to be able to hold onto that land very long anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. Season four, I think that is, like, that clock has been ticking since season one, and the fuse is really short in season four. It feels like they're just an inch away from the cataclysm of that loss. And Rainwater is stuck in this position of trying, it feels like, to position himself to continue to be a protector of the land even if John Dutton is wiped out. You know, you see Rainwater very smartly positioning himself to be there no matter what happens to the Dutton ranch, you know.

Yeah. And interesting through the seasons, it's. It was sometimes alliances with some of the corporate interests were trying to come in, you know, on the smaller scale.

Yeah, that's exactly right. You know, and it's exactly as you said. It's sort of. It's kind of outsmarting everybody, playing your enemies against each other for the sake of, you know, this tremendous responsibility, this responsibility to the land. This a greater responsibility because, you know, family is a huge theme throughout Yellowstone. There are so many characters who are defined by their relationship to family. And then I think your character and this whole sort of side of the story complicates that idea of family. Like, it sort of asks some questions about what is, you know, what is a family. It complicates that idea beyond the very simple, you know, mother, father, children. Because John Dutton's idea of family is very literal. And it feels like Rainwater's idea of family is much more sort of holistic. Yeah, exactly.

And spiritual.

[Mo Brinks]

Yeah.

[Gil Birmingham]

And the land as a kind of part of that family or a sort of responsibility to the land as a part of the land, I think is fascinating.

[Mo Brinks]

Yeah.

[Gil Birmingham]

Those two different ideas of family sort of colliding into each other.

Yeah.

[Jefferson White]

Gil, thank you so much for taking the time.

[Gil Birmingham]

It's such a joy. I feel like I've been learning from you as an actor for a long time, because, I mean, I've been a fan of your work for a long time. And especially your collaborations with Taylor since before I met you. I loved your work in. So thank you for taking the time to talk to me about this stuff. It's an honor.

Wow, that's very sweet of you, Jeff. Thank you. And I wish we had more time on set. We just don't do scenes together.

Yeah, fingers crossed. There's gotta be a way.

Well, on our off time, but I don't know, maybe it's kind of like when I'm working, you aren't, and when you're working, I'm not.

I think that's right. It's these funny little world. Sometimes it's a little compartmentalized. Yeah. But hopefully down the line.

All right, well, it was wonderful talking with you. Thank you so much.

[Mo Brinks]

Thank you.

[Gil Birmingham]

You too, Gil. Talk soon.

Take care.

[Jefferson White]

Thank you again so much for being here with us today. I'm going to take a breath, and when we come back, we're going to get right back into it.

[Mo Brinks]

Okay, folks, today we're talking to. Mo brings plenty, who plays Mo Rainwater's driver on Yellowstone since the very first episode. My dear friend Mo. Thanks for being here, Mo.

It's an honor to be here with you.

Jeff, you've been on the show since the very beginning, since episode 101. So we're looking at four years now.

Yes, sir, we are. And it's quite remarkable that I'm just. I feel so blessed to be a part of such an amazing cast, an excellent show, a well written show, man. I just. It's a dream come true. It really is.

I feel exactly the same way, man. Another one of the huge gifts of a show like this is the fact that we've gotten to do it for four years now means we get to know each other, we get to know the people working on the show, we get to know the crew working on the show. So you and I have known each other now for four years, but we'll talk through some of this stuff like it's for the first time, just for the sake of everybody who hasn't had the honor of knowing you for four years. So will you talk for a second just about your background, sort of how you grew up, how you came to be on Yellowstone? Will you just talk about that a little bit?

I grew up. I was born and raised on a Pine Ridge Inn reservation in South Dakota. I'm tribally enrolled on the Cheyenne River Reservation, which is also another band or a subgroup of the great Lakota nation. My father is Oglala from Pine Ridge, and my mother, she's Minikoju from the Cheyenne River Reservation. We're still Lakota. And so I grew up going to school, rode horses a lot. My dream when I was a kid was to be. I had several dreams. One of them was to be a world champion bull rider. That didn't last long. The second was to be an Olympic runner. I wanted to be another Billy Mills, but of course got into riding bulls, so knees didn't hold up for running. But I also wanted to be a math teacher, which is kind of crazy, but I love math. And of course, a fighter pilot for the Marine Corps, which none of those never worked out. But, you know, I kind of live life in the moment. And my grandfather always told me, he said, when you wake up in the morning, don't expect anything. You should. You should just be. If you. If you live your life with expectations, then you're gonna lose your understanding of how to be grateful for the very first gift you've been given. And that is life. It's. And so I live in a moment, and in doing so, it guided me along the way. I just went with it, you know, it's like riding a horse with no reins. You just hang on and go for the ride and enjoy it, you know? And I ended up being on Yellowstone, and I'm not sure how it all worked out for me to continue to. To be a reoccurring character and how the character is now evolving, but I'm just thankful that it did work out the way it has.

It's such an incredible gift. The sort of curiosity that you're describing, the ability to sort of stay in the moment, no matter what that moment brings you, has also taught you so many skills. You are such an expert horseman. Will you talk about that a little bit? Your background with horses, how you started riding, how that manifests in your life now and the work you do on your ranch because you also live on a 10,000 acre ranch. Will you talk about that a little bit?

Well, the horse thing, how it evolved, was I didn't want to have to walk so far because our closest neighbor was a mile and a half away. And I definitely didn't want to ride my bike on dirt roads, because to ride a bike on a dirt road, the dirt is probably. The dust was probably about 3, 4 inches thick. It's like riding through mud all the time. And so I decided to start riding horses. And at a very young age. Of course, my father was instrumental in that. My uncles. One of my uncles who was like a father to me. He Was honestly one of the most famous native saddle bronc riders in the nation. And he's made it to the national final several times. And he was, he was a huge inspiration in my life. That guy was like, he was totally like a horse whisperer. I remember one time my cousin and I came home from school and there was a horse tied up in the round pin. And so we flipped the coin to see who had to get on this horse first. He had one leg tied up and he said, she's pretty salty. And of course I lost. And so I got on, horse dumped me, and probably three jumps lucky there was no duct tape around. And the second guy, my cousin, he got on and he came off. And my uncle, he was pretty upset that we both got bucked off with the. On a three legged horse. And so he dropped the leg down, took the rope off, and he jumped on that horse and he said, all right, open up the gate. And he took that horse out and he was gone for hours. And he came back and said, she's good to go. And so I'll never forget that moment when the sun was already down, there was a little bit of light left, and here he'd come riding back, and that horse looked like that horse. I mean, it just looked like it's been ridden for years. And so just the connection that he had with horses, it made me think more and more about our culture and what type of instrument or what role the horses played within our culture. Because our culture, we didn't create, we didn't self create our cultural identity. There were many aspects of nature that gave us a part of themselves, that gave us our identity, and horses played a role in that. We've always had horses in the country long before the Spanish brought theirs. And so to revitalize and reconnect with the old way of the relationships that the horse had with our ancestors was so important to me. In fact, we have a. We have a direct descendant, a horse that is a direct descendant from Sitting Bull's original herd of horses. They are called Nakoto horses today. And so the moment that I rode him, I wept. I'm not gonna lie, I shed tears. I wept because I felt for the first time in my life, I felt like there was a huge void that was now finally filled up, you know, and it made me realize that his ancestors carried my ancestors. And we were torn apart. And now here we are back together.

That's beautiful. That's an incredible image. And you talk about it's kind of two different types of heritage, right? There's big picture heritage. There's generations and generations of culture that you've learned and you're an expert in. And then you also talk about, you know, your father, your uncles, people, individuals who pass those lessons onto you. So on the show, you know, how does that play into your character and Mo's role on the show, you know, Mo's role as one of Rainwater's sort of advisors and trusted officials, how do you carry that tradition and that heritage onto the show?

Well, it's. It's honestly just every bit of my own experiences in life, you know, to try to maintain because we are. The relationship that Rainwater and Mo has on the show is very much. Many relationships that we have in real life. There's a lot of people that were removed from the reservations during the. During the relocation program. And whether it's the individuals themselves or their children or their grandchildren that are now trying to find their way back home and understand the struggles that they go through are the questions. The many questions that they have. We want to be always. We always want to be available for them, to be there to assist them and show them, not guide them, but show them the direction of. Of where they're going to find their answers, you know. And so I bring that element of real life experiences onto the show, and I apply it to that particular character and like I said, to help build that relationship between Rainwater and Mold, you know, to always be there to have loyalty and also that compassion that we all must have for. Especially for our relatives who've been removed.

I think it's such an amazing that that's sort of what you're talking about, is carrying your own personal experience and also this tradition and this heritage that you carry with you onto the show. And I feel like truly, from the first frame of the show that you appeared in, Mo had such complexity and so much depth and history and the sort of presence that you carry with you, even when you're not speaking in a scene, even when you're sort of a kind of silent counselor. The looks that Rainwater gives to you and sort of how much you say without saying anything is such an incredible gift. I also think it's amazing you've learned so much. You're such an expert in your own culture and your own heritage, but you're also such an incredible learner.

[Gil Birmingham]

You and I, we spent some time.

[Mo Brinks]

Together cutting, you know, doing cutting, which was something that was relatively new to you, right? Like, how much cutting have you done in your life?

Not much.

[Gil Birmingham]

Not much.

[Mo Brinks]

And what's amazing to me is that you can at both. You can at the same time be such an expert, have done this to carry so much wisdom and knowledge with you and also be so open to new experiences, be so open to learning new things. So is there anything on Yellowstone that the process of working on Yellowstone has taught you or anything that you're particularly interested in diving deeper into that you've learned about over the course of the show?

You know, there's many aspects to the show that has intrigued me and I would say I love watching the crew. Every department within the crew is so important. And you see all these moving parts, how they're able to function. It's like watching a herd of buffalo move. And every single one of them are important. And I look at the camera work and how they set up shots, and I look at just not what Taylor has written, but what he also has visualized and through a little screen and how he's able to allow us and give us the room and the space to bring to life what he has put down, laid down on a piece of paper. And so I would love to be able to just sit for a whole season behind him and watch every single one of them that direct, whether it's Stephen K. I mean, all of them, and just watch that. That's so amazing. To be able to capture a spirit into a lens through great camera work and to be able to direct. Not even just. I mean, I just love it. Every aspect of it is so amazing to me and it just intrigued all of it's intriguing and I'm always open to learning. You can never. You can never allow yourself to think that you're a professional at anything for me. And so I see myself as like this sponge that I'm just always hunger for knowledge and it don't matter. It's not just about my people's tradition, but I hunger for the knowledge of the society as well. So I would know how to be able to coexist in a compassionate, in a loving way, in a respectful way, respectful to my culture, respectful to society, to all people. And so to. When I'm on a set, I see how everything moves and we're all in this together. At the end of the day, we all play an important role. And so I've just. I love. I love being there. I love watching everyone work. I love how you work. I mean, in fact, we were just talking the other day and Sarah Ann, they found a calf that was. It was pouring rain, it was cold, and they found this calf and she remembered that scene where you went back and you were saving this calf. So we had a good, nice little laugh about that when old Jimmy saved the cow.

Oh, man. Yeah. Except you guys did it for real. And a team of experts propped me.

[Gil Birmingham]

Up on a horse.

[Mo Brinks]

That was one of the funniest days, Mo. Cause that was the only time I've ever seen the stunt team nervous. The only time I've ever seen those guys nervous was when they had to let go of the calf and walk away from me very slowly. I was looking at them like, guys, I. If you're worried, I'm worried. Well, one of the things.

Oh, man, I. I could.

I'm so.

[Gil Birmingham]

It's funny because you.

[Mo Brinks]

That quality you describe of being a sponge, you know, of being open to learning and sort of observing and picking up things from. There's so much on films, on a film set that's about trust. That's about trusting everyone else to do their job, sort of putting faith in everyone else and sort of being able to then focus on your own responsibilities without trying to micromanage everybody else. And you're somebody who I have learned so much from in so many ways, often just from watching you, because I learned how to ride for Yellowstone. You know, I had never touched a horse in my life before season one of Yellowstone. And you're somebody who, from the very beginning, sort of watching you ride has taught me so many little things, kind of unspoken things, you know, because you're such an expert in both the kind of spoken understanding of this stuff, but also just the little things. Like watching you ride has been such a sort of masterclass in the unspoken rules and tricks to writing, which is relaxing. Going with the flow. Even the way you describe living your life, you know, going with the flow and living in the moment. When I first started writing, I was so tense. I was trying to do things right. I was so sort of caught up in where my hands were supposed to go and, like, doing it exactly the right way. And I've been learning from you for four years now how to chill out, how to relax a little bit, have fun, how to sort of stay in the moment and have fun, because you sort of. You also have such a sort of breadth of knowledge on so many different subjects. I think a lot of what people respond to with Yellowstone is the feeling of authenticity. You know, this feeling that it's a world that is really lived in. And you're somebody who brings so much natural, easy authenticity to the show, but across so many different fields, because you also have Experience in rodeo. So will you talk a little bit about your history bull riding, bronc riding?

Yeah, I. Like I said I wanted to, one of my uncles, he hit my dad's brother, older brother, he used to ride saddle bron courses. And of course he lost his life while competing horse came over backwards on him. And there's no one else in our family that wanted to take that next step in that realm. And I think I was just crazy enough to be the one to say, you know, I'll do it. And so I rode bareback horses and I tried saddle bronc, but I was horrible because of my thought process of everything. I was so scared and nervous of it, and I rode bulls and. And then eventually I got scared of the bareback horses as well, and I just decided to stick with riding bulls. They weren't scary for me. But outside of that, yeah, you get a horse, we can get. If we can get a saddle on it, I'll get on it. I didn't care when I was younger, when I was a kid, if we can get a rope on that whole, get a halter on a horse, I'll jump on that horse bareback, I didn't care. But when it came to rodeos, because they're. Those horses are bred differently and they know their job where a ranch horse or a horse on a reservation, it. It's different, you know. And so some of them buck pretty good and some of them bucked extremely hard, and some of them really didn't buck at all. And so I was just crazy. I was just crazy enough to do whatever. I even rode a buffalo once, and I couldn't believe I did it myself after it. But before that, my cousins, they said, oh, you're too scared to do it. And I was like, no, let's do it. And so I jumped on and I held on. I had a death grip. I think my toenails grew real fast, too. And I latched on my toenails like a cat. And the buffalo stopped and it starts shaking. And then I start shaking because I didn't know how I was going to get off because I know they're super fast. But I jumped off anyway and I took off running and it just stood there and watched me. And I was like, thank you for not chasing me. So I could say I rode a buffalo once. But I wouldn't really, honestly, Jefferson, I wouldn't really consider myself an expert at many things just for the fact that what I've learned, it came from people who were honestly out of this world. For me, even like Cole Pufferman, who's one of the wranglers, He's a good friend of mine. I consider him a brother. And I watch that guy ride too. And I'm like you. I watch everyone ride. And I'm. And I'm still learning things too. I'm always a student. I always want to be a student. The day I stopped being a student is the day that life's done and over with, I'm sure. But I don't ever want to see that yet. So I'm always going to remain being a student. So for me, I just. I pick up. I pick up things. By being a sponge, I'm able to pick up things and I'll try something. Some things work and some things don't. There were some things that my uncle did that were absolutely amazing. And I tried it. It didn't work for me. And there were some things that he did do that did work for me. And I. And I held on to those things. And so there's one thing that my grandfather, he did teach me. He said that when you work with a horse, never, never see what you can make that horse do. Your whole. Your whole day should be spent on seeing what you can both accomplish together. And so I try to carry that mentality with everything that I. But that I do, you know, I want to see what we can accomplish together.

I think we're. I think we're coming to the end of our time here. Is there anything else you'd like to say? Anybody else you'd like to shout out?

Man, just, you know, it's always good to see you. It's good to always see you guys are family members. I mean, really, you know, we're just one big family. And I'm looking forward to getting back at it. I'm totally excited for this new season to come out. I know all my neighbors are pretty amped up for November 7th and. But anyway, it's. Man, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for including me and taking the time to allow me to be a part of your new adventure. Good luck to you. I know it's not. You don't need it because you're so talented. Jimmy.

Thanks, Mo. I appreciate it, man. Thank you for taking the time to do this. And we've got a lot of adventures ahead of us. I'm really excited.

And I. Always fucking with that too. Jefferson. I was like, jimmy. I mean, Jefferson, no one has a problem with me because I'm Mo.

[Gil Birmingham]

Exactly.

That makes it easy.

[Mo Brinks]

That makes it easy.

Man. Keep up the great work. You are. It's good you're sharing your talent with the world. You got a great gift there.

Thanks, brother. Take care of the ranch and I'll see you really soon, okay?

Yeah, sounds good, brother. Be in touch.

Cheers, man.

Take care.

Bye now.

[Jefferson White]

Thank you all so much for tuning in. I obviously would not be able to.

[Gil Birmingham]

Do this without you.

[Mo Brinks]

If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't.

[Jefferson White]

Be in this big beautiful podcast studio in the Wynn Las Vegas. So thank you so much for tuning in. It really, it means the world to me. We drop new episodes every Thursday, so make sure to subscribe and tune in to the Official Yellowstone Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. The Official Yellowstone Podcast is hosted by me, Jefferson White and produced by 101 podcast studios in Paramount Network.