Music and Authenticity with Ryan Bingham (Walker) and Andrea von Foerster

Summary

The Yellowstone Official Podcast: "Music and Authenticity with Ryan Bingham (Walker) and Andrea von Forster"

Introduction

In this episode of The Yellowstone Official Podcast, co-hosts Jefferson White ("Jimmy") and Jen Landon ("Teeter") delve into the intricate relationship between music and authenticity within the Yellowstone universe. They are joined by Ryan Bingham, celebrated country musician and actor known for his role as Walker, and Andrea von Forster, the show's dedicated music supervisor. Released on December 30, 2021, this episode offers listeners a deep dive into how music shapes the narrative and emotional landscape of the series.

Denim Richards on Life Before Yellowstone

Denim Richards, an integral part of the Yellowstone ensemble, shares his journey before joining the show. Raised in West Texas, Denim was immersed in rodeo culture from a young age, influenced by his uncle, a professional bull rider. He transitioned from rodeo to music, performing in honky-tonks and roadside venues. Denim recounts:

"I got into rodeo at a really young age. My uncle was a professional bull rider, and I got into roping and riding steers when I was like 10 or 11 years old and did that up into kind of my early 20s and got into playing guitar and playing in honky tonks and, you know, on the backs of pickup trucks in the parking lots at the rodeos."
[02:08]

Denim highlights the pivotal moment when his passion for music outweighed the physically demanding life of rodeo:

"I always had to have some sort of day job during the week to kind of make ends meet, too. And that usually consisted of some type of hard labor, you know, so it didn't take me too long to figure out that the, you know, that guitar felt a lot better in my hands than the shovel did, as I kind of said before."
[04:16]

Integrating Music and Rodeo into Yellowstone

The discussion transitions to how Denim's background enriches his portrayal of a cowboy in Yellowstone. Denim expresses his gratitude for the role:

"It's really been, you know, a dream job. You know, it's like. People ask me all the time what it's like to work on the show. It's like, man, it's incredible. I get to go play cowboy in the mountains and, you know, in Montana."
[04:40]

Denim emphasizes the seamless blend of his rodeo experience with his acting, lending authenticity to scenes involving animals and ranch life. He imparts valuable wisdom to his co-stars:

"Slow is smooth and smooth is fast."
[06:39]

This mantra helps actors navigate intense scenes with horses and bulls, fostering a calm and confident presence on screen.

The Role of the Music Supervisor: Andrea von Forster

Andrea von Forster joins the conversation to shed light on her pivotal role as the music supervisor for Yellowstone. She outlines her journey and responsibilities:

"Music supervision is sort of a weird, ever changing and ever evolving job because depending on the project, it can be entirely different."
[24:40]

Andrea details her background in film production and music business, eventually establishing her own company, Firestarter Music. Her role encompasses curating, clearing, and integrating music that aligns with the show's thematic essence.

Collaborating with Taylor Sheridan on the Musical Landscape

Andrea discusses her collaborative dynamic with Taylor Sheridan, the creator of Yellowstone:

"I don't know that we ever actually had a proper conversation about it. I think that we both immediately sort of had the same taste."
[27:35]

Together, they cultivated a distinctive musical palette that mirrors the show's rugged and introspective atmosphere. Andrea elaborates on the selective use of music genres:

"We tend not to use sort of deep south country because it's a little more Name Checky and more sort of party. And we don't want to name a bunch of cities that we're not in when where we are sort of exists in a bubble."
[27:19]

This careful curation ensures that the music enhances the storytelling without overshadowing the narrative.

Authenticity in Music and Its Impact on the Show

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the authenticity that Red Dirt country music brings to Yellowstone. Andrea explains:

"The music is very insular. And I feel like music from other places tends to be a little more, you know, external, whereas it's more internal for what we use in the show."
[29:52]

This authenticity resonates with the characters' lived experiences, creating a cohesive and immersive world. Andrea highlights how music from artists with genuine ties to rodeo and ranch life elevates the show's emotional depth:

"We do look for people that have backgrounds in rodeo roping, raining, barrel racing... they really are living the life that they're singing about."
[29:11]

Impact of Music on Character Development and Storytelling

The integration of music is not merely atmospheric but deeply intertwined with character arcs and plot development. Andrea shares anecdotes of how specific songs influence scenes and character emotions:

"We have a lot of reflective songs. There's a lot of sort of redemption or regret, things like that. You know, we're not typically love songs."
[27:19]

She underscores the strategic placement of music to underscore pivotal moments, enhancing the storytelling without distracting from it.

Conclusion

The episode culminates with expressions of gratitude towards the listeners and acknowledgment of the collaborative efforts that make Yellowstone's musical landscape so impactful. Jefferson White signs off by emphasizing the community's role in the podcast's success:

"We wouldn't get to do this without you. The Yellowstone family, you guys are the reason that we're here, and I truly, truly can't thank you enough."
[46:47]

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ryan Bingham:
  "I feel incredibly fortunate, incredibly blessed today to have Ryan Bingham in the studio..."
  [01:02]

• Denim Richards:
  "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast."
  [06:39]

• Andrea von Forster:
  "Music supervision is sort of a weird, ever changing and ever evolving job..."
  [24:40]

• Andrea von Forster:
  "The music is very insular. And I feel like music from other places tends to be a little more, you know, external..."
  [29:52]

Key Takeaways

• Integration of Music and Authenticity: The synergy between authentic Red Dirt country music and the show's rugged themes enriches the narrative, providing emotional depth and enhancing character development.

• Collaborative Efforts: The seamless collaboration between the cast, crew, and music supervisor Andrea von Forster ensures that music is an intrinsic part of the storytelling process.

• Personal Experiences: Cast members like Denim Richards bring their real-life rodeo and musical experiences to their roles, adding layers of authenticity to the portrayal of ranch life.

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of how music supervision and authentic experiences intertwine to create the compelling world of Yellowstone. Whether you're a long-time fan or new to the series, the insights shared by Ryan Bingham and Andrea von Forster provide a deeper appreciation for the show's artistic and emotional craftsmanship.

Transcript

[Jefferson White]

Hey, everybody, it's Jefferson White with you again, and I want to welcome you back to the official Yellowstone Podcast, presented by Wynn Las Vegas. I really appreciate so much all of you guys for. For tuning in and supporting this show. This podcast is near and dear to my heart. It gives me a chance to really connect with my fellow cast members and the people behind the incredible world of Yellowstone. It has been an incredible opportunity to ask some questions that I've been thinking about for years now and that I've seen our fans talking about for years now. I am back here at the Wynn Las Vegas, and what a perfect spot.

[Ryan Bingham]

To talk about music.

[Jefferson White]

The win has tons of the best musical acts come through here every year, and I'm hoping one day that I can see my first guest here, too. Ryan Bingham is here to talk about his role walker, his music, and his past life in rodeo. So stand by and we're going to dive in.

[Ryan Bingham]

Okay. I feel incredibly fortunate, incredibly blessed today to have Ryan Bingham in the studio. Ryan Bingham, obviously a celebrated country musician in his own right, an incredible actor, a cowboy his entire life, who brings so, so, so much to the show. So, Ryan, thank you so much for being here today, man.

[Denim Richards]

Good to be here, man. Good to see you. It's.

[Ian Bowen]

Yeah.

[Ryan Bingham]

What a treat. The best thing about this whole podcast is honestly just an opportunity to, like, sit down with my friends, who we've known for years now, and sort of catch up after having spent so much time hustling on the ranch. Just sit down for a minute, breathe, catch up, and get a chance to actually talk about it.

[Denim Richards]

Yeah. And I was really excited that you were hosting this, and. And I, you know, seen a lot of things in podcasts that you've done. You're so. You're. You're a good host, man, and you do a really good job of these things, and so I was excited to be doing this here with you.

[Ryan Bingham]

Thanks, brother. That's incredibly, incredibly generous of you. For folks that don't know, will you just start by telling us a little bit about your life before Yellowstone? Do you mind just catching us up on everything that happened to you before Yellowstone?

[Denim Richards]

Oh, boy. It's kind of a long story, but.

[Jefferson White]

It can take as long as you want.

[Denim Richards]

Yeah, yeah. I'm originally, I was born in Hobbs, New Mexico. Grew up in West Texas, around Midland and Odessa and kind of all over Texas. My family moved around quite a bit. I got into rodeo at a really young age. My uncle was a professional bull rider, and I got into roping and riding steers when I was like 10 or 11 years old and did that up into kind of my early 20s and got into playing guitar and playing in honky tonks and, you know, on the backs of pickup trucks in the parking lots at the rodeos. And one thing led to another and met Taylor Sheridan and played him some songs. And next thing I knew, I was in this cowboy show in Montana. So just to kind of wrap it up and keep it short there.

[Ryan Bingham]

So for you. Yeah, there's an incredible amount that happened in there.

[Ian Bowen]

So for you, music and rodeo and.

[Ryan Bingham]

The lifestyle of those two things has always sort of gone hand in hand. You were traveling kind of for both at the same time?

[Denim Richards]

Yeah, you know, it was mainly rodeo first, you know, on the weekends with buddies going down the road to the rodeos. And then when I started learning how to play the guitar, that became part of it, where I would just sit in the backseat of the truck with my guitar and we'd make up silly songs about our adventures on the weekends and things like that. And more often than not, we'd find ourselves in a little roadhouse bar after the rodeo or at a dance somewhere. And my friends would be like, man, get your guitar out and play that song you were singing in the truck while we were driving down the road. That turned into kind of. The people at the bars would hear me playing and invite me to come actually play a gig in the bar. And so next time the rodeo was in town, I'd go to the rodeo and then have a gig in the bar afterwards. And then kind of sooner or later I had more gigs and I did rodeos, and I had to kind of make a decision there. And I. You know, I loved rodeo and I loved riding bulls and all that, but I always had to have some sort of day job during the week to kind of make ends meet, too. And that usually consisted of some type of hard labor, you know, so it didn't take me too long to figure out that the, you know, that guitar felt a lot better in my hands than the shovel did, as I kind of said before.

[Ryan Bingham]

But let's talk a little bit about. Because you're obviously an incredible musician, and that's a huge part of your work on the show. You're also an incredibly talented and skilled cowboy.

[Ian Bowen]

So let's talk a little bit about.

[Ryan Bingham]

How your experience in the rodeo, your experience growing up working on ranches relates to the work you do on Yellowstone, what it's been like to take those things you've been doing your whole life and bring them to Set with you.

[Jefferson White]

Just talk a little bit about the.

[Ryan Bingham]

Experience of, you know, cowboying on the Yellowstone.

[Denim Richards]

Yeah, it's. It's really been, you know, a dream job. You know, it's like. People ask me all time what it's like to work on the show. It's like, man, it's incredible. I get to go play cowboy in the mountains and, you know, in Montana. And even when I'm not on set, you know, I get on my horse and go ride through the mountains and go fish and do, you know, all those things. And so I feel fortunate that, you know, I never really had high expectations when I was that young of making a career out of rodeo or even music, you know, and so to have this opportunity now to being able to do both, yeah, you found the perfect.

[Ian Bowen]

Job that allows you to make a.

[Denim Richards]

Living out of it. It's just like a dream come true. And so I feel really fortunate and grateful for the experience. I love working with horses and just being around animals and like, to be that connected to kind of nature and just the energy, you know, and the kind of spirit of livestock and horses and all that. It just. To me, it kind of really connects me back to the earth and it kind of roots me in where I come from. And it just. It's where I feel most comfortable and kind of most, you know, in my own self, if that makes sense. You know.

[Ryan Bingham]

And I think that also really informs the way that Walker sort of comes off on camera. Because you have this incredible sort of ease to you in all of those sequences. You know, me, Denham, Ian, the guys. You know, we haven't spent our whole lives doing this. I feel like I tense up the second we get into a sequence involving horses. You know, anytime it's our job to go grab a calf, to go do something that's new to us, all this tension floods into my body. And over and over again, I look over at you and you just have this kind of natural ease. And you remind me. I've tried a few times to remember exactly what it is that you say you had a sort of incredible credo and stop me, because I'm going to butcher it. But it's like something is slow.

[Denim Richards]

Slow is slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

[Ryan Bingham]

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

[Ian Bowen]

I love that. And I try to remember that as.

[Ryan Bingham]

I get thrown into these circumstances that are very new to me. I'm doing some cutting recently, which is something I know you have a lot of experience with.

[Ian Bowen]

I always.

[Ryan Bingham]

My first instinct is to rush. My first instinct is to hurry up. So I always have your voice in the back of my mind, and I'm.

[Ian Bowen]

Always sort of picturing you sort of.

[Ryan Bingham]

Trying to kind of slow my heart rate down because the horse picks up on that too, right? Like, yeah.

[Denim Richards]

You know, and like, it's not that I have, like. I mean, I guess the experience is just of being around it since a young age. Like, I remember when I was young, my uncle had a. Some bucking bulls and things like that. And I've worked for some stock contractors that had bull where at. Like, my job was going walking in a pen of like 30 or 40 big, massive bucking bulls and, you know, feeding them and late in the afternoon when you're kind of tired and all those bulls and it's like, you know, one thing my uncle told me when I was a kid, he's like, hey, man, keep your head up when you're walking through the bullpen. You know, you don't want to walk through there looking at the ground, you know, you better keep your head up and watch them, you know, and like, every little movement you make, they're watching too. And if you're scared or nervous, you're going to make them nervous, you know. And so I kind of had to learn how to walk through there with confidence and just be like. And just talk to them like, hey, hey, here, come on, let's eat, you know, and same way with horses or. When I was young and riding bulls, I was kind of like, fell into the bull riding thing at an interesting time. Like when I was 14 or 15 years old, it was kind of right when the PBR was getting started. And, you know, these guys were really starting to breed bucking bulls, you know, to buck. Like, for a while, it seemed like you could go to a rodeo and there might be one or two bulls in the pen that would really buck or that would be mean, you know, but the rest of them would kind of be, you know, kind of jumping kick around there. But now they all, like, they're like, bred to buck. They're all just, you know, really good. And so I was at a time where I was kind of small and like, these guys were breeding these young bucking bulls, but they needed somebody to come ride them, you know, to get on them. And I became like the test pilot, you know, So I just thought I was like, wanting to go practice, you know, these guys, like, I want to get you, you know, go get on some good practice bulls. And then I realized, like, they were just. I was getting on 10 or 15, like 2 year old buckle bulls a day. And these bulls were, you know, they're young and they'd never been in a chute before. They're flipping over backwards, they're wild. And I had to really learn how to ease my way around them in the bucking chute and like kind of speak their language in a way just to be able to navigate them and be able to get out of the gate and all of that stuff and then ride them and get off and do it again. So I just, I spent a lot of time with them, whether like feeding them, you know, taking care of them, cleaning their pens, or like riding them in the buckets. You sing or with horses. When I was in college, I'd help my roommate out. He was a farrier. And we shoot a lot of horses, a lot of big cutting horse barns and things like that. And you know, we'd shoot seven to ten horses a day. And every now and then there would be one that was really bad to shoot and would kick you and bite you and hurt you, you know, if you didn't really learn how to ease around them and be gentle around them and kind of learn how to make them feel comfortable, you know. So I try to learn, you know, the more I can make that animal feel comfortable, the better off we're all going to be.

[Ryan Bingham]

It's a perfect. That's a perfect analogy for Walker in the bunkhouse with Lloyd and Rip.

[Ian Bowen]

Right.

[Ryan Bingham]

You're walking into a polls.

[Jefferson White]

Yeah.

[Ian Bowen]

You're walking into a pen with a bunch of keyed up angry bulls who.

[Ryan Bingham]

Want to take a piece out of you. And it's amazing watching you sort of move through those scenes like water, you know, don't give them anything to grab onto. Don't give them anything to sort of get pissed at. Try to just kind of flow through those scenes. I so admire the way you navigate that difficult space where everybody's kind of competing for status. You're so good at coming in slow and easy. It's such a cool sort of acting.

[Denim Richards]

Don't stir the pot. Yeah, you don't have to. I think that's how I live my life too. You know, I moved around a lot as a kid and it was always the new kid in school and, you know, he's always had to kind of face those, you know, bullies or whatever you want to call. There's always some kid in town that wanted to beat up the new kid or whatever. So. And you just had to kind of walk through it like you're walking through the bullpen and keep your head up and look out for the bad ones. That would actually run you over.

[Ryan Bingham]

Yeah. Something that I've so appreciated is you have such a sort of comprehensive and wide knowledge of all these different individual skills within the field of horsemanship. You know, you have a background in rodeo, roping, working ranches, cutting. You have such a sort of wide breadth of knowledge, which is an incredible gift for us. For the rest of us, at any given moment, we can turn to you. And for four years now, you've been helping guide us in just a million little ways. Because it takes a lifetime. It takes a lifetime to learn this stuff, you know, and a lot of us are coming to this, let's be honest, too late in our lives.

[Ian Bowen]

So we're always trying to keep up.

[Ryan Bingham]

And you have such a sort of comprehensive knowledge of this stuff for just little things like where should my hand go in this moment? What am I supposed to do with my hat when I get off the horse here? You know, there's just a million little rituals.

[Denim Richards]

Well, that's cool. Like, I didn't really realize that, you know, that's pretty. I mean, like, I've kind of had. I'm not like, really good in one thing, but I've experienced a lot of it in different, you know, and been around it enough to where I feel comfortable. And I, I think the same with you guys. Like, I realize that too. Like, I have a lot of respect for you guys for coming in and not. Some of you guys have never even been on a horse. You know, I know how intimidating that must be. And I talk to people about it all the time, you know, and people, they're like, well, how are all the other casts on the show and with all the cowboy and stuff? And I'm like, man, you know, it's pretty cool to see everybody come in and like, really work at it. And it's, it's intimidating to get on the back of a 1200 pound animal and like, be that vulnerable with something that you've never done. And it takes a lot of courage. And I got a lot of respect for you guys just for getting up there and doing it and seeing how hard you guys work at it too. You know, it really, it's really cool to see how you guys have all evolved. And I know you and I started when we first met on there and we were learning how to rope the dummy and doing roping tricks. And next thing I know, I see you at the end of the barn and you're doing all these Amazing rope tricks on your own. And I'm like, man, that's really cool, you know, and it's. It's cool to see. So you get something out of it, too, you know.

[Ryan Bingham]

Thanks, brother. I appreciate that. It's been. The thing we're lucky is that basically for every actor on the show, there's at least one real cowboy. Right. Even if you look at the bunkhouse. Right?

[Denim Richards]

Yeah.

[Ryan Bingham]

You got. For every Jefferson White, Ian Bowen, Denim Richards, you got an Ethan Lee, Jake Ream for E J. Smith, and then.

[Denim Richards]

Like, the stunt, like, J. Rod and Bobby Roberts, George Mark, all the. You know, like, man, those guys need to know anything. They got a ton, you know, they're incredible.

[Ryan Bingham]

I think Jordan. Jordan Warwick has, at one point or another, basically doubled for every actor on the show.

[Ian Bowen]

Yeah, I think he's. He's put on a lot of different.

[Ryan Bingham]

Wigs and a lot of different hats.

[Ian Bowen]

And he's played pretty much every character.

[Denim Richards]

Definitely been very thankful that they've been there, even helping me with stuff. I'm like, man, I've done this before, but, like, I'm not up for it today.

[Ryan Bingham]

Those guys are lifesavers.

[Ian Bowen]

There's been a number of times, I.

[Ryan Bingham]

Think what's so amazing is also some of the freedom. I think Taylor is brilliant as a director, and he's brilliant at knowing when to trust his collaborators. And there's been a number of times when I've seen him turn to you and say, you know, hey, Ryan, we want to have a song in this scene. What do you want to play? What do you think fits in this scene? And then I'll see you take your guitar, wander off, mess around a little, figure it out. So will you just talk about playing on set? Times that you sort of maybe how being on set has also informed your creative process and how that goes back and forth, you know?

[Ian Bowen]

Yeah.

[Denim Richards]

I think it, you know, really starts with Taylor, too, of him, like, giving us the freedom to do that, you know, and definitely with the music at the start of it, you know, he's like, well, what do you. He's like, I got an idea. Like, I would like to have this song in this place. But then, like, it's a lot of time, even when I'm on stage at a show, like, I'll have, like, a set list written out, and I think it's going to be this. But as soon as you walk on the stage and you feel the energy of the crowd, sometimes that whole set list just goes out the window because it's like, man, these People aren't in the mood for these songs that I have written down. They're in the mood. It's time to call in the audible. You know, I don't want to kill the party here with all these slow, sad songs. I better place the upbeat stuff and keep the party going, you know, and it's kind of. It was the same way, like, I'd get on set and then like, the reality would sink in of what's going on and what it looked like and, you know, the mood of what your guys characters were in and all that. I'd be like, man, well, this is kind of what I'm feeling right now. And I could at least take that to Taylor and be like, what do you think about this? You know, and. And he could either give it a thumbs up or thumbs down in the same way with like some of the lines, you know, he'd like. He'd have what he'd have written down and he's like, give me a couple more of just maybe what you're doing. And you know, that way he had some options with it. And I always thought that was. That was interesting and it made it fun and a little bit more creative too, to where you could, like, if you were feeling something, you could at least try it.

[Ryan Bingham]

Yeah.

[Ian Bowen]

I so appreciate the way that we.

[Ryan Bingham]

Shoot those music sequences on the show. Because a lot of shows you do a playback, you play the music back over speakers and you kind of mouth along to it.

[Denim Richards]

It's so hard.

[Ian Bowen]

It's so hard to do. But on Yellowstone, I feel like over.

[Ryan Bingham]

And over again, you sit there, you play the song, maybe you try another song. It's like this incredible for us. I mean, I've been a fan of yours since the first time I heard your music. For us, it's an incredible gift to sit in this room with you in the same way that those guys in the bunkhouse are sitting in the bunkhouse with Walker. We all get to sit in the room with you and watch you sort of work that stuff out. And it's like this incredibly intimate little show. It's really such a gift.

[Denim Richards]

It's really. It's been interesting for me too, because when I. Even from the very beginning, when I first started writing songs, you know, a lot of I could close my eyes and I could visualize something, and writing a song was really like kind of just describing what I was seeing in my mind, you know, and so to have, you know, a TV show where you, like, I have the visuals in front of me and I Can see it, and I could. Like, it just. It makes. It kind of makes my mind go crazy with ideas and things to write about and so. And, you know, not even to speak of, like, the emotional part of it as well, you know, so it's pretty interesting.

[Ryan Bingham]

That's what I think is amazing about the show, too, is how sort of immersive the environment is. You know, it's an endlessly inspiring environment because we're out there in the mountains, you know, like, we're really. The locations are real, practical locations. We're really surrounded by animals. We're really surrounded by this world. And I think that's an incredibly creatively inspiring space to occupy across every dimension of it. For the technical, you know, for our visual team, the camera department, it gives them so much to play with, to really be in those environments. But then also for us as actors, for you, as a musician, it gives us so much to respond to.

[Denim Richards]

Yeah.

[Ryan Bingham]

In real time. Yeah.

[Denim Richards]

There's a. There's a painting, There's a poem, there's a song. There's, like, at every little moment, you know, it's like that time when Bobby Roberts was riding that Bron and it went through the fence, and I'm just like, well, there's a song right there. You know, just out of that 10 seconds that. That just went down. You know, it's like that stuff.

[Ryan Bingham]

I mean, you. You. You grew up in the rodeo.

[Ian Bowen]

Does it still make you nervous watching the bull riding?

[Denim Richards]

Does. You know, I mean, I've still got some friends that still ride and fight bulls and stuff, and I'll go every now and then and get on the back of the chutes and watch them, and I'm just like, whoo. It still gives me that same feeling, you know, which I always kind of craved when I was young and doing it. But, yeah, it's intense, you know?

[Ian Bowen]

Yeah.

[Jefferson White]

You really.

[Ryan Bingham]

That's something you can't fake.

[Denim Richards]

No.

[Ryan Bingham]

You know, getting on the back of a bucking horse or a bull, be.

[Denim Richards]

Prepared to die every time you do it.

[Ian Bowen]

Yeah.

[Denim Richards]

Even then, seeing your friends go through it, you know, like, I had a. You know, a good friend was a bullfighter, and his brother was a bull rider, and all of his friends, and he was out there, the one to protect them all if they got in a bind, you know, And I was, like, talking to him about it one time. He's like, oh, man, the feeling I have to be responsible for not only my brother, but all of my friends that are here doing it. It's a lot of Weight and a lot of things to carry. It's a dangerous sport, you know, and.

[Ryan Bingham]

It is the rodeo world. Just like the experience of making the show really feels like it's a family affair. It's a community.

[Ian Bowen]

You know, when you described when you.

[Ryan Bingham]

First started playing music when you were on the rodeo circuit, you're surrounded by your friends. You're sort of surrounded by your kind of makeshift family.

[Denim Richards]

Yeah. And it really is, you know, I mean, the whole west, the idea of like, kind of the western cowboy thing, it's. It's a real way of life for a lot of people that grow up on the land and farm and ranch and, you know, there's a sort of set of values out there. You know, it's just kind of like being a kid and growing up and knowing what the dirt feels like between your toes or what it's like to put your foot on the back of a shovel and, you know, kind of that feeling of pride after working all day and all of that stuff. And I think this show kind of. It's. It kind of recognizes that. And a lot of people out there, you know, and I think a lot of people appreciate that, too, and kind of sheds just a little bit of light on, you know, what. What some of that's all about. Yeah.

[Ryan Bingham]

There's so much camaraderie. It feels like in that world, the idea of the west, you really rely on your neighbor. You rely on your neighbor to help.

[Ian Bowen]

You get, you know, help you get your cows moved, help you get the harvested, all of that. And it's the same way on the.

[Ryan Bingham]

Show, you know, it's the same way on the show that we've become this.

[Ian Bowen]

Family, and we all rely on each.

[Ryan Bingham]

Other to a certain extent to get through our long days to stay safe.

[Denim Richards]

Yeah. God has pinned up up there in the mountains. Isolated, middle of nowhere, right?

[Ryan Bingham]

Exactly. So one of the amazing sponsors of our podcast is Lone River Ranch Water, And I know that you've worked with them quite a bit. Will you talk a little bit about that?

[Denim Richards]

Yeah, you know, it's a new thing for me. I recently, Katie Beale Brown from Midland, Texas, started this, and they approached me about getting involved with it, and, you know, I've been pretty picky about brands and things that I associate myself with, but being from West Texas and where this all started, it really kind of reminded me at home, and it gave me the opportunity to work with something that I felt was very much kind of a part of where I come from, and really kind of I could identify with it. And get a chance to go back to Texas and work with them on it. So I've been pretty excited to be a part of this. And yeah, here it's this Lone River Ranch water and it's a good little canned cocktail that we drink quite often down in that part of the world. So yeah, I'm glad it's all coming together.

[Ryan Bingham]

And it's a family affair too. Just like the rodeo lifestyle are making this show.

[Denim Richards]

Yeah. You know, it's nice just to kind of meet the folks that started it and know where they're from and kind of hear their story and have it kind of resonate and really kind of align in a lot of ways with my own and how I grew up. So it's, it's. It's something that I don't have to like, try to be something I'm not to be a part of, if that makes sense. You know, I can, I. I'm comfortable with just kind of being myself and let it representing kind of me and where I'm from as well. And I'm. I'm excited to be a part of it and. And partner with them on that. If you're not familiar with it, it's a. It's a hard seltzer inspired by tequila and lime cocktail from West Texas. And it's damn good.

[Ryan Bingham]

I just want to say, Ryan. Cause I'm not sure if I've ever told you this. The very first time I met Taylor, basically after I got this part, I went out to his house and I was riding around. He was teaching me how to ride, stuff like that. And then afterwards, you know, we were talking about the show, talking about his vision for the show. This was before we started filming. It was his. He was kind of laying out his vision for the pilot and for the whole first season. And he told me in that sort of. Before anything else, the first thing he told me about was you and that you were going to be involved in the show. And he told me about your song Hallelujah. And this is where the story gets a little silly. I left his house. I didn't know how to ask him for a ride and I didn't know how to get a ride. I was out in the middle of nowhere, Park City, Utah. So I walked from Taylor's ranch back to the hotel. It was like a four mile walk and I just listened to your song Hallelujah on a loop for four miles.

[Denim Richards]

Oh my gosh.

[Ryan Bingham]

It was incredible. And I'll never forget it, man. It was like my first week out There it was my first week learning how to cowboy. It was the first time I'd ever dug into any of this stuff. And your song and your music has been such a sort of integral part of this experience for me from the very beginning, from before we started shooting, before any of it. You've been a part of it for me, so thank you so much for that.

[Denim Richards]

Yeah, man, thank you. I'm glad that you get something out of it too, man. That's what it's all about, you know, it's like I feel like any more of these days, that's what the music is for, and that's why that inspires me to keep writing it. You know, if it's. If it can help other people or like, inspire them in some way, then I feel like I'm. I'm doing a good job or doing what I'm supposed to do with it.

[Jefferson White]

You know, Man, Ryan Bingham, that guy, he just can't help but be cool all the time. Okay, keeping on the music theme here. When we come back, I am fortunate to have Andrea Von Forster calling in. Let's take a quick break and I'm going to be right back.

[Ian Bowen]

I feel so, so, so lucky to be speaking to Andrea Von Forrester, who is the music supervisor for Yellowstone. Obviously, music is a huge, huge part of the show and has been from the beginning. Everybody, including me, responds so much to the sort of authentic feeling of this red dirt country music that has come to define the world of Yellowstone.

[Ryan Bingham]

So I'm so excited and I feel.

[Ian Bowen]

So lucky to be speaking to you today. Thank you for being here, Andrea.

[Andrea Von Forster]

Thank you.

[Ian Bowen]

So just real quick, for folks that don't know you, will you talk a little bit about your background, about how you got started in music supervision, a little bit about what you do too, just so we have a. A clearer understanding of what your job is and what you do on the show.

[Andrea Von Forster]

Yeah, no one knows what I do. Music supervision is sort of a weird, ever changing and ever evolving job because depending on the project, it can be entirely different. So I got my start. I was a film production major and a double minor in music business and music recording at usc. And then I kept getting jobs in music sort of by accident, even though I kept trying to go the film and TV route. And so I worked at Disney and live action soundtracks for the president of music and the vice president of music. And then I moved on from there and worked for a supervisor named Kevin Edelman and worked on a bunch of shows there. Vip, Popular, Providence, Roswell. And then I worked for another supervisor doing indie films and then another supervisor, Alex Pazavas, doing voc, Grey's Anatomy, you know, all those. And then I went on my own. So I've been on my own since 2006, I think, and haven't looked back. And so I was lucky enough to, you know, meet Taylor via phone thanks to a series of people at Weinstein originally and then our post production supervisor of season one. And then we've kind of never taken a day off since then. And it's been almost five years. And so for supervision, I have my own company now, Firestarter Music. And. And I do creative, so I pitch music. I do clearance to make it legal and to fit our budget, because that's the hardest part is the budget. And then I also organize on cameras or pre records for. On cameras. On cameras being the, you know, musical performances on camera and all the sort of ancillary things that go with that. In the past, I've had to get bands back together to clear their songs because they were no longer talking to each other. So, yeah, there's just a lot of things that go into it that you kind of forget about because there's just so many small things. But the fun part is the creative part. And especially when you get to work on a show like Yellowstone that has such a defined sound. And Red Dirt country, for anyone who doesn't know, because there seems to be a lot of people that don't, is typically Texas and Oklahoma Americana and country and songwriting in general. And there's just such a strong storytelling kind of sense in both states. And we tend not to use sort of deep south country because it's a little more Name Checky and more sort of party. And we don't want to name a bunch of cities that we're not in when where we are sort of exists in a bubble.

[Ian Bowen]

Yeah. So will you talk a little bit about working with Taylor to. To make those decisions, to sort of flesh out the world, the sort of musical world of Yellowstone, how you guys arrived at this specific sound that you're after.

[Andrea Von Forster]

I don't know that we ever actually had a proper conversation about it. I think that we both immediately sort of had the same taste. So it's pretty easy when you just sort of say this artist, and you're like, yeah, this artist. Yeah. And then we just sort of ran with it. So it was. I don't know that was ever like a really proper conversation. It's just that I knew what he wanted and kind of half of my job is sort of reading the minds of anyone I work for. And he's got great ears, you know, and he created the perfect musical landscape to play on. So it's been kind of easy finding the right thing. However, we do have a pretty narrow lane of what kind of music that we use because we don't have a lot of celebratory music. You know, we have a lot of the world is ending and does anyone care? You know, we have some very depressing times. So there's a lot of reflective songs. There's a lot of sort of redemption or regret, things like that. You know, we're not typically love songs. Sometimes we do use them, but most of the time we don't. Not a lot of relationshipy things in general, unless it's about family. Like when we use Mary Gauthier's song Mercy now and you know, she talks about father. And that was our season ender for season one. So it's kind of interesting because a lot of people send me things and if it says he or she gets out, if it's about love, it's out. If it's a route, you know, about past love, it's out, you know. So the only times we really have love songs, I think once or twice we've had Casey and Monica and then most of them are Beth and Rip.

[Ian Bowen]

So will you talk a little bit about. You said that part of what defines Red Dirt country for you is a sense of storytelling, is a sense of sort of authentic lived experience reflected in music. And I think that's something that the show, the content of the show really shares with the musical world of the show is this authenticity, this sort of lived in history. And so many of these artists are telling stories that are very authentic to their lives. So will you talk a little bit about what you look for in or what you see reflected in these artists in this sort of authenticity of their music?

[Andrea Von Forster]

Yeah, I mean, we do look for people that have backgrounds in rodeo roping, raining, barrel racing. I have albums from a lot of barrel racers who have reached out to me over the. The years. And, you know, people find me and I'm fine with that because I can't do everything on my own. So if they reach out, it's one part of my job for me. And I think the thing that comes with being in the southwest in general, or just the west in general, I guess, is Montana. But is space. There's something about having that kind of sort of space and desolation and everything else that sort of it. It matches the soundscape that we have on the show of just the music is very insular. And I feel like music from other places tends to be a little more, you know, external, whereas it's more internal for what we use in the show. So it's usually almost like, you know, your thoughts put to music versus someone singing. Do you? It's your own thoughts. And with Taylor, he has such great taste that, you know, Whiskey Myers was someone that he wanted on there, you know, and he said along the way, different artists, you know, Ryan Bingham obviously, was his as well. And, no, that worked out. And so, you know, and he does tend to cast people who do have a, you know, music background as well, obviously Kevin Costner. And so, you know, it's been a joy trying to find the things that fit, you know, within our lane of reflection and regret. And, you know, they don't have to be from Texas, Oklahoma. You know, obviously you can have that sound without being from there, but it seems to help.

[Ian Bowen]

Yeah, Ryan Bingham's from Texas. Right.

[Andrea Von Forster]

I can't remember exactly where he's from originally. I know there was New Mexico and Oklahoma in there, too, but probably Texas. Yeah, he moved around a lot. He had a rodeo background as well.

[Ian Bowen]

We talk a little bit about another thing that. Another one of the show's themes that I think is also reflected in the music is history and sort of the classic west versus the contemporary West. So the show's theme has this incredible kind of sweeping, cinematic classical feel. Will you talk a little bit about the, you know, that juxtaposition or that sort of relationship between the classic west and the modern west as it's reflected in music?

[Andrea Von Forster]

Yeah. When we were looking for a composer originally, you know, we met with a bunch of people, and then I suggested Brian Tyler, who is amazing. And he was the only one that didn't think of sort of a spaghetti Western, Ennio Morricone kind of sound. You know, he was like, you know, Eastern traveler music, you know, Romany music, that kind of thing. And it just immediately sort of struck a chord. And, you know, obviously, he nailed it. Out of the Park. And our theme is beautiful and all the score is beautiful on our show. And it just fits because it's got that same sort of grandeur, you know, as being out in the open in this beautiful landscape. But it also has the same tension of knowing it's gonna kill you. So there's always this sort of beauty and tension at the same time. And, you know, we never get to rest on our laurels in the show. You Know, not the characters, not anything. Basically, everything's going to kill you. It's a matter of how and when. And knowing that, you know, it's sort of like putting music to that is also interesting. So in season one, we had more music. That kind of landscape was a character. So we used like some Pussifer songs and whatnot. And those really fit the landscape and had this wonderful sort of warm but also distant sound. And so it sort of pulled you in, but let you know you. You weren't really a part of it. And I feel like that's kind of what the landscape does as well. And then as we moved into later seasons, I think we sort of started matching the characters a little more and less of the landscape.

[Ian Bowen]

The second time I met Taylor, I went down to Utah and I was practicing horse riding at his house because I did not know how to ride a horse and that was important. So I went to his house to practice. He was always very gracious and very generous in letting me use his arena and setting me up with beautiful horses and incredible horse trainers. And then I was talking to him about the show. And from that very first conversation with him, music was a huge part of how he described the show. So he was describing the sequence to me in the pilot of the. I think it's the BLM trucks and helicopters sort of riding out to go and reclaim the cows that have wandered off the Dutton ranch. And as he described it to me, he played a song sort of alongside his description that felt like it was intrinsic to his understanding of the world and the tone of the piece, you know, which is just such an amazing thing. So talk to me about the experience, specifically of working with Taylor, with the creator who is coming to this, with such a sort of authentic understanding of this world, with such a sort of lived understanding of this world and how he kind of over time continues to relate that to music.

[Andrea Von Forster]

Well, that's the thing is that he writes very musically. You know, like a lot of times people write something and then they try to shoehorn music in if they didn't get it, you know, when they shot it. And so then they're trying to fix it in post with music, not editorial. And with him, I mean, I've said this before, but I've never experienced anyone in my 20 some years of doing this where what you read is exactly what goes to screen. Like 98% of what's in the script goes to screen. And I feel like I've seen it by the time I watch it. If I've Just read the script. So he writes with space. And, you know, because there's. It's not a dialogue heavy show by comparison to a lot of other shows. It's certainly not Sorkin. And so, you know, it's. He leaves space for you to sort of create more or add nuance with music or whatever you want, but it's not ever forcing it. We've never once in the show forced a song. It was either it flowed properly for that or we went to score, we had nothing. And silence is as much of, you know, sort of music for us as anything. Because sometimes you need to be left with the thoughts of somebody and not have anything underscoring or not sort of adding to anything. And I think we have a really good balance of when you're allowed these sort of moments of levity, like in the bunkhouse and when everyone's giving each other crap and all that, or if we're in an arena and they're raining and they're sort of showing off with each other, or the other times when it's just end of the episode and you feel very unsettled and you don't feel good for anyone. And the funny thing is the whole show is anti heroes, you know, I mean, like, so who you root for is interesting because this is a lot about you because technically no one's a hero.

[Jefferson White]

Well, I would bet everybody's favorite.

[Ian Bowen]

I think there's one hero.

[Andrea Von Forster]

Would I be looking at him?

[Ryan Bingham]

Listen, that's not for me to say.

[Ian Bowen]

That's not for me to say.

[Andrea Von Forster]

I think a certain ex girlfriend would feel differently on the show.

[Ian Bowen]

Well, the point you made about silence is so true, that the show. You said this about space too, that the west is in some ways defined by wide open spaces. And I think the show so effectively. And you so effectively, you know, contrast silence with music to heighten the effect of each of them. You know, the silence is that much more effective after these moments of levity that have been underscored by music in the same way. Yeah, I just think that's an incredible. How you describe the space is also so true of the music. And the two heighten each other so effectively.

[Andrea Von Forster]

And because Taylor is, you know, there's a lot of people that say they love music, but they don't know how the sausage is made. And he actually bothers to know. You know, he knows instruments. You know, he can say that he wants this kind of thing, that kind of thing. You know, he knows. He knows how to break it down and hear things and doesn't take anything too literally. And so it's really nice to be able to send over music. And at this point, we have the palette down, so there's not actually a lot of discussion at this point about what there is. It's like, I'll send him music year round when I find things, and he's writing and shooting, so we never have a day off. We haven't had a day off since day one. And he'll send me music. I send him music. And so we just kind of keep going from there. And so, you know, some of the Texas artists are from him because obviously he's there, and he'll hear them before I do, or, you know, I can kind of key into what he likes based off of what he said before. And so we kind of have just a really. A really good shorthand without actually having to communicate too much.

[Ian Bowen]

That's amazing to think that sometimes you're sending him music while he's writing, and thus that music can sort of seep its way into the creative process at early stages. And it's exactly what you said about not just being sort of tacked on top at the end, but rather being a kind of intrinsic part of the world as it's built.

[Andrea Von Forster]

A lot of things go into the show at the script stage, so that's why they also work so well, because he can write around it, he can write to it. And so that's why sending music sort of whenever I hear it, whenever there's anything new, that really helps, because then he can take his ridiculous talent already and, you know, and sort of elevate the songs and elevate the scene because they're written for those songs.

[Ryan Bingham]

Yeah.

[Ian Bowen]

You described him as sort of knowing.

[Ryan Bingham]

How the sausage is made when it comes to music.

[Ian Bowen]

He has an incredibly sort of deep understanding of basically every department on set. He knows how the horses are trained. He knows how the saddle is made. I bet. I'm willing to bet, and I'm in.

[Ryan Bingham]

Las Vegas right now, so I'll put.

[Ian Bowen]

A little money down that he literally knows how the sausage is made. I bet that dude knows how does that. He's a foodie.

[Andrea Von Forster]

I'm gonna go with a yes on that.

[Ryan Bingham]

Yeah, I think so.

[Ian Bowen]

No one's gonna take that bet. Is there anything else you. Any other stories, any other sort of fun anecdotes you'd like to share about your time on the show?

[Andrea Von Forster]

There's so, so, so many things that have happened in four seasons. I mean, I think that the most fun is finding artists and you know, I mean, some of the artists that he has told me to sort of go after that he heard on, you know, the radio maybe, or, you know, just in town, you know, he's. It rained once in Texas and he ducked into a, you know, a bar slash venue and was like, hey, check this guy out, you know, who happened to be performing, things like that, you know, or sometimes we might know that someone's a better writer than a performer or vice versa. So we always think, how can we apply that? You know, so how can we still give someone a leg up, even if maybe they're not good at both things? And for. I think in season four, I have all the seasons mixed up at this point because I've done so much paperwork. But when we used Zac Brian Condemned, that was season three, I had found him on Twitter and YouTube because he'd been putting up videos for ages. And I loved it. And I sent it to Taylor and I was like, I'm obsessed with this song Condemned and a couple other songs, like, what do you think? And he was like, let's do it. And the recordings were a little lo fi because they were done like in an Airbnb, you know, and he was still like active military at the time. And so then I said, listen, if you can get yourself to Nashville, we can get you with Dave Cobb, the legendary music producer. And, you know, and we can sort of re record these. And so, sure enough, he got himself there. I mean, literally based off of a conversation on Twitter. Do you know what I mean? Like, he had no reason to believe me. And I talked to his manager and everything else and they said, sure. And then they did, and that worked out and they released those two songs later. We actually used a stripped down version of those songs. When we used Condemned, we didn't use the full beautiful recording that Dave Cobb did, but it was great, you know, and now he's signed to a label and all the rest of it, and obviously it's from his talent, you know, not from us. But it's just. It's amazing to see what can happen when people have their music out there and they actually answer their emails or their Twitter or their Instagram or whatever else. Because trying to find some of people is hard because some of them, they just do music on the side, put it out, and they're, you know, they work in an office. So when I'm like, hey, can we get that? They don't know what I'm talking about. I'm like, hey, can you sign this paper? And hey, Can I get this, you know, high res file meaning a wave instead of a MP3. And they're like, I don't know what that means.

[Ian Bowen]

Well, talk about authenticity, because a lot of times you're dealing with artists who are themselves living and working on ranches are hard to reach. You're dealing with people who really are living the life that they're singing about. And you're sort of discovering. It's amazing to think that you're discovering these incredibly authentic voices and giving them this platform, you know, And I think it's then no wonder that the show has that feeling because you are finding and discovering these artists who are living this life, who are living in Texas, Oklahoma, who are working on ranches. It's amazing to think that you guys are champions for them and giving them these opportunities and in doing so, are bringing such authentic, raw voices to the show. Something that I think Taylor is amazing at and yourself as well, obviously, that kind of scouting to see something raw, some potential in somebody and to give them that opportunity. It can be so hard as a young artist, as an emerging artist, you really need someone to take a chance on you. You need someone to sort of make a bet on you. And Taylor, I think, has an incredible gift and has given so many opportunities to young artists. He's also is an actor himself, so I think he also has tremendous empathy for that struggle. And I feel like somebody who really lucked into this whole deal because, you know, Taylor saw something in me that I didn't really see in myself, in the same way that Rip and John Dutton saw something in Jimmy that he didn't see in himself. So that's amazing. How does it feel to sort of get the opportunity to be a champion for these artists? And is there anyone in particular you want to shout out? Is there anyone you felt you've sort of seen their career change from before they were on Yellowstone to after. Talk to me a little bit about that experience.

[Andrea Von Forster]

Yeah, I mean, the talent is there. I'm just one more person that's finding it as well as Taylor. And so, you know, we are helping elevate people who already have that amazing talent. And Whiskey Myers is obviously the number one, you know, artist that sort of wins the day on our show because they had three old records hit the top 10 after appearing on our show. And that just doesn't happen, you know, like, that's insane. And they have been amazing. You know, we continue to use their music. We've used a ton of BlackBerry smoke and they've been amazing as well, you know, in the last couple seasons, you know, getting to use Charlie Crockett is amazing. I'd love to use more of his stuff. And we've used quite a few Laney Wilson songs, and she's fantastic. I'd actually heard about her when I did a scouting trip in Nashville after season one, and not a lot of people knew what Paramount Network was yet, so I had to explain to people what Yellowstone was. They kind of heard about it. And so then there was her agency just said, listen, we've got this girl. I think you should hear her. And she's fantastic. And she's been a part of a couple things with Taylor so far. Hayley Witters has some music this season, and she's fantastic. We really like sort of bolder vocals when it comes to females, so, you know, we don't do love songs again. So we love it when it's songs about rodeo and bull riding or, you know, heavy drinking or, you know, playing hard, whatever it is. We like that kind of aspect to a lot of our Bonk House songs as well. And then Cultural Wall obviously, is amazing. Nobody on earth sounds like him, and we've been lucky enough to use multiple songs by him, Shane Smith and the Saints. I'm super excited about using this season. We used, I think one song twice and then possibly another song. They're just ridiculously good. And that was another Taylor request. We actually name drop them in the episode. And then, you know, Zach Bryan and Gethin Jenkins we've used a couple times, and he's fantastic. The panhandlers we got to use this season. And then Ross Shiflett is another one who's totally independent artist, who's amazing that we've used multiple times. And I'm just thankful that independent artists return my emails.

[Ian Bowen]

Andrea, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for taking the time to teach me about this stuff because God knows I'm a clueless actor. And I'm incredibly grateful to have this opportunity to learn from you about what you do and everything that goes into the music of the show. So thank you so, so, so much for joining us.

[Andrea Von Forster]

Thank you.

[Jefferson White]

Thank you again for tuning in. We wouldn't get to do this without you. The Yellowstone family, you guys are the reason that we're here, and I truly, truly can't thank you enough. We drop new episodes every Thursday, so make sure to subscribe and tune in to the official Official Yellowstone Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. The official Yellowstone Podcast is hosted by me Jefferson White and produced by 101 podcast studios and Paramount Network.