← The Official Yellowstone Podcast
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- [00:10]
Jefferson White
Hey, guys. Jefferson White here. I play Jimmy Hurdstrom on the Paramount Network original series Yellowstone. Yellowstone is back. It's bigger and better than ever. Season 5 of Yellowstone is the biggest season yet and things are no different here on the official Yellowstone podcast. And so I've got a really, really exciting announcement for you coming up right after this break. This season of the official Yellowstone podcast is going to be bigger than ever. Better than ever. And my first big piece of news is we are joined. Well, I'll let her introduce herself.
- [00:50]
Jennifer Landon
What's your name? Tyre. What's that? Tate. Turk. Jeremy.
- [00:59]
Jefferson White
She said Peter. Your name Peter?
- [01:02]
Jennifer Landon
Do I look like my fucking name is Peter, you skunk hard motherfucker?
- [01:09]
Jefferson White
We are joined by the incredible, the one of a kind, Jennifer Landon. Jen, thank you so much for being here.
- [01:17]
Jennifer Landon
Oh my gosh, Jeff, I'm so excited to be here. It's also, it seems bit ironic that the one person on the show that you can't understand at all is now joining you for an entirely auditory experience of the show. So in case anybody doesn't know that this is how I speak in real life. Hello?
- [01:37]
Jefferson White
Yeah, Jen. Oh my God, that's such a good point. It's so funny. Folks know you as Teeter. They know you with Teeter's incredible incomprehensible accent. What an amazing thing. Some folks are going to be hearing your real voice for the first time here.
- [01:54]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah. Which I think very well could be the case because as I've moved through the world and people have approached me, one of the first things they say is they were quite nervous as to how I would respond to them and if they would be able to understand what I was saying to them when I said, yes, I am Teeter. Nice to meet you.
- [02:19]
Jefferson White
Yeah, that's so funny because in real life you're so. You have incredible diction and elocution.
- [02:26]
Jennifer Landon
I think that I have, I think I've tried to hide my California accent for most of my life. I don't know why I had. I don't. I was born with some, some sort of shame around being from la. So, yeah, I think I almost drive a Mid Atlantic at times.
- [02:43]
Jefferson White
Do you, do you. I feel like. Do you overcompensate now as folks come up to you and say Teeter?
- [02:49]
Jennifer Landon
No. I think sometimes I'm like, sup? I think I just like go right in. People are oftentimes like very disappointed. They're like, they're like, hey, hey, will you call me a skunk haired? Fill in the rest of that sentence. And I'm like, sure, don't sue me.
- [03:06]
Jefferson White
That's so funny. People want you to roast them.
- [03:09]
Jennifer Landon
They do.
- [03:09]
Jefferson White
That's funny because people want to roast me. Most people come up to me and say, shut the up, Jimmy. And people want you to roast them. That's so funny.
- [03:19]
Jennifer Landon
That is. Are we allowed to drop the F bomb on the show? This is exciting.
- [03:26]
Jefferson White
Jen. What an honor it is to have you here. What an honor to be co hosting this thing together. I can't believe it. There's no one in the world that I would rather spend this time with than you, Jeff.
- [03:42]
Jennifer Landon
I feel the same way, especially since I feel like we were torn apart by storylines. Ah, you know what I mean?
- [03:49]
Jefferson White
So. Right.
- [03:50]
Jennifer Landon
When have we seen each other? We were torn apart years ago now. I mean, it was two seasons. It'll be a whole season for the audience. But we shot season four in 20. 19. 20. 20.
- [04:04]
Jefferson White
20. Summer 20 20.
- [04:06]
Jennifer Landon
Right. And then we were torn apart a few episodes in.
- [04:11]
Jefferson White
Yeah. It's funny, while we were working on season four, I was at least up in Montana because Jimmy started season four up in Montana. Now I'm really feeling the effects of the banishment for the first time. You know, it feels so strange to have been far away from you guys for so long.
- [04:27]
Jennifer Landon
Well, you're missed. Like, not only in the bunkhouse on the show, but the vibe is not the same.
- [04:33]
Jefferson White
I mean, like, I'm glad to hear that. Can you imagine?
- [04:37]
Jennifer Landon
Can you imagine if everybody was like.
- [04:39]
Jefferson White
Yeah, Jeff, the vibe is way better. We don't know what it was. Something was just kind of cursed about season one through four and season five. We're just having a good time. It feels like a weight has been lifted.
- [04:50]
Jennifer Landon
It just feels breezier now.
- [04:52]
Jefferson White
Yeah, about. About 200 pounds of dead weight just hanging around your neck for four seasons. Well, I hope you're happy, Jen. You got what you wanted.
- [05:01]
Jennifer Landon
Thank you. Hey, while we're talking about poundage real quick, like, I don't. And by the way, please, producer, step in, end the recording, and we'll go back. Jeff, can I. Can we, like, does the audience know that you have, like, you are swole? Like, your muscle gain is, like, overwhelming. Like, there's no way that we can hit the word pounds without me being like, Jefferson White, legitimate, legitimately put on, like, 40 pounds of muscle and then.
- [05:28]
Jefferson White
Lost it all again.
- [05:30]
Jennifer Landon
That's not true. That's not true. I saw you in a public setting, just to be clear, and you are ripped.
- [05:38]
Jefferson White
Oh, that's very, very generous of you. The Audience, you know, they've got a lot to catch up. We know a little bit more than they do. So so far, we're staying a little bit ahead of them. And they can have. They'll have their own relationship to my body dysmorphia in a couple of months here.
- [05:55]
Jennifer Landon
I love body dysmorphia. It keeps all of us looking really good.
- [06:00]
Jefferson White
Yeah. Welcome to Hollywood. It keeps all of us looking really good and feeling really bad.
- [06:04]
Jennifer Landon
Really bad.
- [06:06]
Jefferson White
So, Jen, this season of Yellowstone, I kind of can't believe it. Three episodes now. We're three episodes into season five of Yellowstone. Just when I keep thinking we've sort of hit the ceiling. Just when I keep thinking it can't get any bigger. The story keeps getting bigger. The scale and scope of this thing keeps expanding.
- [06:29]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah.
- [06:29]
Jefferson White
The very first thing that happens in Yellowstone, season five, episode one, is John Dutton wins the race to be the governor. All of a sudden, the scope of the show expands from being one cattle ranch to an entire state. John Dutton is responsible for the entire state. When you read that script.
- [06:50]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah.
- [06:51]
Jefferson White
Tell me, what was your first response to that?
- [06:54]
Jennifer Landon
My first thought was, okay, great. How exciting. Because the world already, even though it existed like you said on this one ranch, the world already felt so big. So the promise of it sort of expanding infinitely now at this point was exciting. It was also incredibly daunting. And because you weren't there, Jeff, and everything was breezy because you weren't there, you didn't get to experience that. The largeness of the world that we're entering into also made the largeness of the scenes really. Really a sort of momentous task to take on from a production and directing standpoint. I mean, there were so. There were these scenes where we had every single person basically in the cast and the entire state of Montana.
- [07:47]
Jefferson White
It's amazing. And you see, it's funny how I'm always looking for the ways in which the narrative of the show lines up with the narrative of the process of making it totally. This is. It's one of these situations where for four seasons, we've had our own private little paradise out on the Dutton ranch. And then in season five, episode one, just like you're describing, all of a sudden, the rest of the state comes to the Dutton ranch. There's hundreds of background. And the cowboys, the bunk house, you know, as they come out of the bunkhouse in their dress shirts and look at the scene unfolding. It must be a little bit like that in real Life, huh?
- [08:29]
Jennifer Landon
It 100% felt like that and it also, like, there were all these parallel moments. Like, for example, like, one of the points in the scene is like, you know, the cowboys are, you know, we're cowboy jousting in the arena and like, we're the ones having a blast. They're not. And let me tell you, on the day when we were shooting, we were the ones having a party. I mean, like, even in between takes, we're still going after each other. I had rope burn so bad. I learned. I learned never to celebrate by grabbing the end of your rope. I had rope burn so bad that I had to sleep with my hand elevated by, like, a window that was bringing in 18 degree air for about four nights. But it was worth it. Jeff?
- [09:10]
Jefferson White
Yeah. Will you describe. Because I wasn't there, I missed it. And to be honest, I'm pissed that I missed it. Will you please describe cowboy jousting for us?
- [09:20]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah. Which when I read it, I went, what's this? And then somebody showed me. It's basically. It's almost like a. What's the thing where you're. What's the thing where you run on the horse with the line?
- [09:35]
Jefferson White
Jousting.
- [09:36]
Jennifer Landon
Yes, that's it. That's what I was thinking. It's basically jousting on foot with a rope. So you're running towards each other. And it is really a timing thing because if you throw yours too early, you could miss and whatnot. You're aiming for the other person's feet. You both kind of run full steam ahead. You don't chicken out. And then you pull up and one of you eats a sandwich. Basically.
- [10:00]
Jefferson White
Yeah. If it goes well, somebody is doing.
- [10:03]
Jennifer Landon
A face plant or both people are, or a tailbone is getting broken. I saw J Rod. Who? Our amazing stunt coordinator. I saw him lean over to the guy who I was going to be jousting with, bless his heart, who's about 6, 5, I think I called him Paul Bunyan on one take. And he must have whispered like, do me a favor, just fall really hard for her every time. Because I really like her and she tries hard. So, you know.
- [10:31]
Jefferson White
Oh, that's amazing. I bet you really got him. And this is another funny thing about him.
- [10:35]
Jennifer Landon
I did a couple times.
- [10:37]
Jefferson White
I was going to say, I bet you really knocked him the over, to be honest, because you and I. You and I are funny in this way, Jen. And we kind of have parallel journeys in this way. You know, when we started working on Yellowstone, this has been a deep dive into a world that wasn't our world. You know, neither of us necessarily come from a. You know, we have. And we each have our own histories, our own backgrounds with this stuff, but neither of us come directly from the cowboy world, the ranching world. And we've had this journey over the course of the last five years immersing ourselves in this. And I think you and I both have really, and our whole cast and our whole crew, all of us, oh my gosh, we have tremendous respect for this world. We have tremendous admiration for folks who grew up in this life, this culture, this history. And so much of our jobs over the last five years has been learning stuff that we never otherwise would have had any exposure to and embracing it and, you know, doing our best to do this life proud, you know.
- [11:47]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, I think what we both really had in common is that we were probably the least. I mean, you obviously came in season one, I came in season three, but it felt like we both maybe were the least experienced of the group going in. And also you and I are. We're both kind of nerds, you know, like, we really hone in on a thing, you know. I'm sure you have, I imagine, like we both could have some books on like the physics of roping laying around, you know. And also. Yeah, the thing that Taylor really does so well when he writes is to sort of honor the world that he is capturing. And then he also instills that so much in us. I worry about writing almost more than I worry about acting. And that clip that we heard at the top, you know, as an actor, normally you're just criticizing your performance, but now you're just like, really? That's how, that's how I rode that horse that day. Like looking back on it years later, I'm like, it's hum. It's humiliating.
- [12:57]
Jefferson White
It is. There's a lot of, you know, you and I, self critical, lifelong good students, obsessed with doing a good job and impressing. Impressing the teacher. This is a funny. And you expressed this idea that I think really resonates through all of Yellowstone is Yellowstone. The show itself is about these, these worlds colliding, you know, the, the west and the many forces sort of colliding with it in the modern day, right in the year 2022, all the sort of forces from outside the west sort of smashing into it and this kind of almost biblical struggle between history and progress. And so much of the experience of making the show represents this kind of collision between those of us with acting backgrounds, those of us with filmmaking backgrounds and Those of us with ranching backgrounds, with cowboy backgrounds, with Texas backgrounds, Montana backgrounds, and Taylor Sheridan is somebody who embodies both of those things fully at the same time. Like he is what reconciles those two worlds. He's a cowboy and he's a writer and he's a filmmaker and he's a rancher and he's a horse trainer and he's an actor. He, in himself, in his body, reconciles that contradiction. And so I think the rest of us, those of us from the ranching world and those of us from the filmmaking, acting, television, film world, we are all sort of aspiring to contain within us the contradiction that Taylor does.
- [14:32]
Jennifer Landon
Absolutely.
- [14:34]
Jefferson White
So that conversation is an ongoing one. I can't wait to dive into these first three episodes in depth. But first, let's just do an ad break really quick. So that contradiction, those. The contradiction, these worlds colliding. Yeah. Is represented so perfectly in the struggle that faces John Dutton. From the very beginning of season five. He all of a sudden has these new responsibilities. He's got these new sort of duties that are not familiar to him. He's out of his element. And how. The question from the beginning of season five feels like, how can he reconcile his background, his history, his tradition with his new responsibilities, all of the sort of forces arrayed against him? Which is a fascinating question. It really feels like season five, episode one is almost like a everything that came before. This is almost a prequel and the show really begins on a new level, at a new scale in season five.
- [15:43]
Jennifer Landon
Absolutely.
- [15:45]
Jefferson White
And one thing I really think is fascinating about this is also the introduction of all of these new characters. You know, starting in season five, we are introduced to new characters. And then also there's the amazing through line as John Dutton pushes forward into the future. As we see him sort of accelerating towards the future, we're also pulled back into the past with these amazing sort of fully fleshed out flashbacks to this earlier timeline. You know, to a timeline that we've briefly explored in the past that we're now digging deeper into, into the history of some of our favorite relationships on Yellowstone. You know, these formative relationships. Rip and Beth, a couple that we've been rooting for for five years.
- [16:36]
Jennifer Landon
The whole Rip and Bath storyline and the way they serve it and the flashbacks in episode one, it's one of my favorite things in the show. I think they did an unbelievable job in terms of the casting of Kai and Kyle and the way there's almost this. There's a visual similarity between the two of them. So there's this real parallel between the Rowdy and Rip character. We sort of. Rowdy's the character. You know, Rowdy's the tough one at the time. I mean, you know, by the time we show up, nobody's tougher than Rip, you know, and, you know, in those flashbacks, we see that Rip is more meek, and I just love that those boys, while looking very different, did share some physical commonalities to draw that peril, and I love that.
- [17:29]
Jefferson White
Yeah, it's such a cool thing. It's like, you know, Rip has such a mythic quality to him. The Rip that we know, he's gotten more complicated. Of course, over the course of five seasons, we've started to see his humanity, especially as it relates to Beth and to Carter. But to see sort of where Rip began, sort of the kind of origin story of this character that we admire so much is an incredible thing. And you're totally right at the beginning there. He's. He's not so different than Carter. He's not so different than Jimmy. When we're first introduced to him, you know, he's this kid who's had an incredibly difficult life. He's faced many challenges, and he's just trying to survive. The casting of these young actors who've also been on the show, I think, since season one. I think in season one, we were first introduced to Kyle Red Silverstein's young Rip, and to Kylie Rogers, young Beth. Talk about stepping into some big shoes. Kylie Rogers is absolutely incredible. I have such. She's got an impossible job. That's the kind of job that I would be terrified of, to try to step into Kelly Reilly shoes. And she does it with such tremendous presence. To be a young actor and to be able to live up to Kelly Reilly's performance of Beth, that's amazing.
- [18:49]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah, she's incredible. That is a job that is truly. That would be truly, truly daunting. But she does it so beautifully, and she doesn't. What I love is that she trusts that she has enough in common with her to not hide any of herself. Like, it doesn't feel like she's putting on a performance. It feels like it is something that is really coming out of her, which I love.
- [19:18]
Jefferson White
So it is such a cool thing to see these actors, these young actors, fully embodying these characters that we love so much and living up to. To be honest, I would be so intimidated to step into Colehouser's shoes or Kelly Reilly's shoes. So I have tremendous respect for these young actors.
- [19:38]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah. And they both. I mean, they both basically exhibit a maturity that fard seeds their age and is a maturity that exceeds ours. Jeff.
- [19:45]
Jefferson White
Yeah, I was gonna say a maturity that succeeds.
- [19:48]
Jennifer Landon
We hope in another 10 years that we will be able to have the grace.
- [19:53]
Jefferson White
Yeah. Let's just say if they were recording this podcast, they would be speaking much more eloquently about every sort of element of this dramaturgy. I also wanna give a big shout out to Kai Caster. Yeah. Who plays Rowdy, who we've been talking about. Because anytime you're coming into the Fear fifth season of a show like this, it's a show that's like a behemoth. It's a intimidating thing. And these are young actors who carry themselves with such ease, with such sort of quiet confidence. I admire it tremendously. So great job to them. I'm learning from them, from watching their performances.
- [20:32]
Jennifer Landon
And I got to meet Kai at cowboy camp this year and, you know, we, you know, I figured he was playing Rowdy and I just fell in love with him. He was, you know. Cause cowboy camp is such a bonding experience. You're thrown into safe situations that are terrifying and then you eat food together and bond over it. And he was. He was really one of the gems. He was just such a gem in that whole process. And then I never saw him again because he exists in a different time.
- [21:06]
Jefferson White
Oh, it's so funny. Yeah. There's these parallel worlds. Yeah. But also what's fun about it is there is a young teeter somewhere. Somewhere in Arkansas while that is happening.
- [21:19]
Jennifer Landon
That's true. I mean, have you. I mean, I feel like we're all actively trying to have Cole Hauser's daughter play young teeter. Like at least in some sort of. Even external to the show. Some kind of like, role play thing. Who. Anyway, for another episode, we should just have her on because she's cool and I love that kid. She became a real friend. A real friend this. This summer.
- [21:45]
Jefferson White
That's amazing. I feel like I was. I disappeared and I was replaced in aggregate with a bunch of. A bunch of much better, younger, more interesting, cooler, more competent versions of me.
- [21:58]
Jennifer Landon
It's a little strange to have like a group of friends who are children. Like, Finn became a real bud. And like, it's very hard to explain to like. No, we're friends. Like, it's. They're. We're. I'm hanging out with my friend. They're just 12.
- [22:14]
Jefferson White
Well, we gotta talk about that for a second because. Because in episode 501, we're introduced to some familiar faces, some Young versions of familiar faces. And then we're introduced to a face that is. Should be familiar but is barely recognizable, which is Carter. Carter has. Carter's grown a little.
- [22:33]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah, Carter played by the same actor. But at first, it feels like one of those very bizarre recasts where they're like, they couldn't find someone who looked a little bit more like the other actor.
- [22:44]
Jefferson White
It's like a House of the dragon time jump. It's like all of a sudden. Yeah.
- [22:47]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah, he. You know, when I first saw him, I think it was a day that we were just riding. You know, on days when we're not shooting and they're not using the ranch, a bunch of us will go ride and just work on. Work on stuff. And, gosh, he walked right by me, and I had no idea who he was. And it wasn't until he opened his mouth, and I, like, looked in his eyeballs, and I was like, oh, my goodness, it is Finn. Not so little anymore. It's. It's. It. I mean, and I have to say, like, he. We got to hang out. We got to hang out a lot this year. And that. That. That guy is so special. I actually have a Zelda game because I bought Nintendo Switch, and he lent me his Zelda video game. I think he wanted it back before we ended, but I hadn't beat the game in time, so I still have it. I'm playing.
- [23:35]
Jefferson White
If you really interrogate that for a second, Jen, that means that you've stolen candy from a child.
- [23:41]
Jennifer Landon
I have stolen property from a young person. That's true. Sorry, Catherine.
- [23:46]
Jefferson White
Yeah, you're saying it with, like, a friendly voice, but it sounds to me like you're a bully.
- [23:50]
Jennifer Landon
That's how you do everything in this business. What are you talking about?
- [23:54]
Jefferson White
That's right.
- [23:54]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah.
- [23:54]
Jefferson White
You bully with a friendly voice. So. So it is a fascinating thing, you know, as. As season five propels us perhaps too fast into the future, a future that John Dutton is. Is wary of, A future he's doing everything in his power to resist. We are also propelled backwards into the past. So it really is a kind of fascinating duality. We're seeing what the Duttons are fighting so hard to protect.
- [24:25]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah.
- [24:26]
Jefferson White
Sort of as we're watching them, you know, I hate to say it, Losing the battle to protect it. As we see as the Duttons, forces are spread ever more thin and their enemies are spread ever more thickly, we're also watching the very legacy that they're. They're trying to protect. I also just want to give a Shout out. Listen, you guys listening to this? God bless you. You're going to learn something about me and Jen, which is that actors favorite thing to talk about is other actors. We, you know, not to speak for Jen. God bless. You know, Jen, you got your own prerogative. My thing that I love most in the world is actors and acting. So over and over again you're going to hear me gush about, you know, some of my favorite actors in the world, which is our castmates on Yellowstone. And if you get sick of it, I'm sorry, I'm not very good at hosting a podcast.
- [25:24]
Jennifer Landon
You're fantastic at hosting a podcast and I was actually in agreement with you that whole time, but my connection on this podcast dropped out. So while I was actually saying, yes, Jeff, yes, I agree. I love talking about fellow actors. It just sounded like I was a jerk and I was disappointed.
- [25:40]
Jefferson White
Yeah, damn. It was like, yeah, you guys can't see this at home. But Jen was shaking her head that whole time. She has nothing but contempt for the other actors on the show.
- [25:49]
Jennifer Landon
Can I, like, actually just like while we're talking about actors on the show, there were people who got some shout outs. Did you see the shout out that Jake Ream got from his performance in episode one?
- [26:07]
Jefferson White
No. Who shouted him out from Vulture?
- [26:11]
Jennifer Landon
Yes. It was like one of the highlights. It was like Jake Ream's expression of genuine bewilderment at the sudden drive by insults made me laugh. What the hell are you all on my ass for? I mean, it was one of like seven acting moments really pulled out. And for those of you who don't know, Jake Ream is not somebody who enters into the show as somebody with an acting background. He is somebody who enters into the show as somebody who is a cutting horse trainer and a wrangler background. And he is one of the best improvisers. And I think he's actually one of the most truthful actors I've ever worked with in my life.
- [26:44]
Jefferson White
He is so funny. Yeah, it is really. Jake Ream has been acting for about as long as we've been riding horses, which is, you know, five seasons now. And he is, he has gotten much better at acting much faster than we've gotten better at writing. That's not really fair.
- [27:02]
Jennifer Landon
That is correct. When we were never.
- [27:06]
Jefferson White
No, no, you go, you go, you go.
- [27:09]
Jennifer Landon
When we were, when we were shooting the. This is just like behind the scenes. When we were shooting the Governor. When we were shooting the Governor ball scene and we were in the very far background and we're just dancing in the background. It was no problem. I saw Jake Ream talking, and I thought he was talking to the woman he was dancing with. But then I saw that the woman he was dancing with wasn't talking back at all. And then I looked, and I see that he's got his head turned down, he's got his phone in his pocket, and he's in the middle of selling a horse in the deep background of the scene. And I'm like.
- [27:42]
Jefferson White
I'm like, jake, that's so funny. Yeah, it's really incredible. You can take the horse trainer out of the barn, but you can't take the barn out of the horse trainer. A real cowboy would come up with a better saying than that.
- [27:57]
Jennifer Landon
I don't know.
- [27:59]
Jefferson White
It is a pretty amazing thing because it's also like. Also Ethan Lee. I mean, like. So there's lots of really funny bunkhouse sort of sequences in the first few episodes of season five that have aired so far. Ethan Lee is also getting his jokes in now. It's pretty amazing. I really. Ethan Lee is also a remarkable actor. And Ethan. Ethan is an actor and a stunt performer in addition to being an incredible writer. So it is really fun to get to see him do more, to get to see all these characters that have been cooking for five seasons, been simmering like a chili in a crock pot, are now so rich and full of flavor, which is a really amazing thing to see.
- [28:39]
Jennifer Landon
You know, we have this. We talk about those parallels that are, you know, on screen and off screen. The thing that's crazy is that nobody knew that Ethan was funny in real life until Taylor started writing him jokes. And now suddenly, like, he's become incredibly funny off camera. Like we always knew he was lovely, soulful, wonderful, talented, amazing, smart. We didn't know he was hilarious. That guy's got zingers.
- [29:02]
Jefferson White
They're coming out left and right now he's got zingers. By season five, the zingers are flying all over the place. And it is. It's very funny in episode one there when. When Jake is catching more than his fair share of the zingers, I feel bad abandoning him because when Jimmy was there, there was more than one person to make fun of. Now that Jimmy's out of the way, Jake is catching more than his fair share of those shots and that collateral damage. So, Chris, we've talked a bunch about John Dutton's new role as the governor. We've talked about what the bunkhouse is up to. Let's take a break really quick. And when we get back, we'll catch up on everything. So we've. We've talked about John Dutton's new role as the governor, the new forces and sort of challenges facing him. We've talked about what the bunkhouse is up to. Another crucial, although less obviously less fun to talk about. Yeah. Plot point of episode one is the tragic loss of Casey and Monica's child.
- [30:07]
Jennifer Landon
That was heartbreaking.
- [30:09]
Jefferson White
It really was. Yeah, it's. It's one of these. Taylor's brilliant. He sets you up on these highs. He gives you a party. He gives you what you want to see. You want to see, you know, Rip and Beth being romantic. You want to see, you know, these victories, the cowboys having a good time. And then right when you're feeling safe and secure, he pulls the rug out from under you and drops you on your ass. And the end of episode one really is that it's a brutal, expertly acted, expertly shot, expertly sort of executed sequence that reminds us that the west is these highs, this sort of beautiful, joyful community. And it's also brutally difficult and challenging and punishing.
- [31:00]
Jennifer Landon
It also sort of like, you know, so much of the episode, like you said, is about this, you know, JD Becoming governor and these sort of bigger things and progress versus this and all of these sort of ideals and, you know, and esoteric ideas. But this is something that sort of makes all of that in a strange way not matter, because that's something that we can all relate to. When there's some sort of devastating loss like that that is close to home, that in particular involves a child. Like, for a moment, all that other stuff goes away. I mean, I know for me, watching the episode, I mean, in that moment, it's like that's the only thing that exists. And it certainly puts a lot in perspective. And it frame. It just frames that whole episode really well.
- [31:51]
Jefferson White
You're so right. It's fascinating, you know, these contradictions. We've been talking about getting pulled in multiple directions at once as the scale of the show gets bigger, as it gets more complicated, as more and more sort of the conflicts get bigger, they're more legal, they're sort of harder to resolve. This sequence and this loss really brings us back to the kind of most intimate, most human, most sort of instinctually painful, on an animal level loss that you can imagine.
- [32:28]
Jennifer Landon
And Taylor also, like, writes in some of those other simple, intimate moments towards the end with JD And Carter, for example, that moment where he tells him basically to stop growing up, that if you grow a beard, you're fired, you know, which is another thing that we. Is so simple that we all relate to in terms of just the greatest devil of them all sometimes, which is time. This train that you can't stop. So he just grounds the end of that episode in just really basic devastating or not so devastating human experiences. I feel like that's one of his superpowers.
- [33:13]
Jefferson White
You're totally right. And that's an amazing sort of parallel to draw. It really feels like John Dutton is sort of drawing a line in the sand and then, you know, waves of time are just washing it away over and over again. There's nothing he can do to stop that tide, you know.
- [33:29]
Jennifer Landon
What do you think, Jeff? What do you think about that last moment when Tate in the hall says to jd, I had a brother for an hour anyway. And then he says, they named him John.
- [33:45]
Jefferson White
Oh, it's brutal. It's. It's, you know, it's John Dutton in many ways. Many, many episodes throughout Yellowstone are John Dutton sort of facing his own mortality, facing the. The mortality of his legacy. So much of what he does is to protect his family, to protect generations to come. He's doing everything he can to try to control the future. And this is just a little reminder that no matter what you do, no matter how hard you fight, you can't control everything. And you can't. There's, you know, time. Time comes for all of us, you know.
- [34:25]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah, it also in. I mean, I actually. So funny in some ways, I don't know, because I haven't revisited some of these episodes because we shot them so long ago, but it also feels almost like a foreshadowing or a harbinger of, you know, as John's focus gets out and elsewhere, there's a real threat to what he might lose back home while he's, you know, there's a real threat to losing, you know, almost everything it feels like. And I just want to say our producer, who's been incredibly quiet during this recording, Scott, who's. Who's a pretty tough guy at this point, in the little beat sheet that he hands Jeff and I, he actually has a parenthetical. He couldn't help himself. He had to write down that in that hospital moment, in parentheses, he wrote, I cried. So it was like amidst all of these very clean notes, like he was so overwhelmed with feeling.
- [35:27]
Jefferson White
He's actually. He's also crying right now.
- [35:29]
Jennifer Landon
Right now.
- [35:30]
Jefferson White
You guys can't see it because it's not on video, but he's just. Tears are streaming down his face.
- [35:35]
Jennifer Landon
Wow.
- [35:35]
Jefferson White
Scott, this is actually the fourth or fifth time he's cried just during this recording session.
- [35:40]
Jennifer Landon
That's a lot of tissue. Yeah, it's a scented one, too. Looks like it's that with the aloe, so your nose doesn't get.
- [35:47]
Jefferson White
Oh, that's nice. He's not gonna get dry. Irritated. Yeah, that's. You're so right, Jen. That, like, one of the themes of this season that we'll keep talking about as we now move forward into episode two is that John Dutton has to go further and further away from home to protect his home. He's getting pulled away from the very thing that he's trying to protect, and it puts everybody in danger.
- [36:10]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah. And, you know, I don't want to give too much away because I know we're only in, you know, the first three episodes, but, you know, that feeling of missing him, missing Kevin was also a thing that I felt this year. Like, it was. It was something that my character sort of felt, and then it was something that I felt as an actor on set. It was like, you know, because, of course, when you're shooting Yellowstone, people are like, how's Kevin? You know, and the answer is always amazing. And this year, it was like, I haven't seen him, you know, and it was. It was this thing of. Of really sort of missing the main papa bear.
- [36:51]
Jefferson White
Yeah. His presence. Kevin is a leader on set in the same way that John Dutton is the leader of that ranch. And you were also saying earlier that you missed me. So I'm starting to wonder, kind of like, was any of that real?
- [37:07]
Jennifer Landon
Was any of my missing you real?
- [37:09]
Jefferson White
Yeah. Now you're saying it about Kevin Costner.
- [37:11]
Jennifer Landon
American legend Kevin Costner. Jeff, I'll be fully honest with you. It was much easier without you, but I did. No, I did miss you. No, I missed you horribly. I miss you. I miss you even now. Jeff, I can see you. You're a small. You look like a playing card, frankly. Oddly, for some reason, you look. Where's the Yellowstone playing cards? I just came up. Do we have a 101 Studios? Are you hearing me? Do we have a Yellowstone playing card?
- [37:39]
Jefferson White
It's funny, you know. Season five, episode one, an episode in which Jimmy Herdstrom does not appear one time, is the most watched episode of television across. All across. All television this year, which, while I listen, I want to root for the team. I want to say, you know, go Cubs. Even when I'm not playing, even when I'm not on the field, Jeff, you.
- [38:04]
Jennifer Landon
Are the ship that got us here. You are The. You are. You are the ship that got us here.
- [38:10]
Jefferson White
Ship of Theseus. Does it even. Is it even still the same ship now that the sails are gone? Listen, listen, listen. Yellowstone Season 5, Episode 2. A lot of stuff is happening. There's a lot of. And once again, part of one of the exciting things about this season particularly is these new threats, these new challenges, these new characters. So In Yellowstone Season 5, Episode 2, we are introduced to Sarah Atwood. Yes. Will you talk a little bit about dawn, about the experience, about your experience of this character, this character who kind of leapt off the page.
- [38:50]
Jennifer Landon
Oh, my goodness. You know, when I read. When I read that character, it definitely felt like it was just the promise of scenes between her, between Sarah and Beth. It was like we just. It was just this incredible. Like, you just could only imagine what was gonna come. That was one of the characters that excited me the most. Dawn is. I actually met dawn for the first time four days ago, maybe it was five days ago at the premiere, which I think we're going to get to in a little bit to talk about. But she's so amazing. I've been, you know, I'm a fan of hers from 1883. I love her other work. She's just a dynamite actress and a really cool person. And I was really excited. I'm really excited to continue to watch that character on screen.
- [39:53]
Jefferson White
It's so cool. It's like, you know, we were talking earlier about Kylie Rogers having the challenge of stepping into Kelly Riley's shoes playing young Beth. How about. How about dawn having to step up to go toe to toe? It's like signing up to fight Muhammad Ali, you know, it's like signing up to fight Floyd Mayweather. You're signing up to go into the ring with the toughest, meanest fighter on the show. And it's an incredible thing. And she rises to that challenge. It's a very exciting. Very exciting conflict brewing there.
- [40:27]
Jennifer Landon
It is.
- [40:29]
Jefferson White
So also in this episode, I just want to flag this because we're introducing new enemies and we're introducing new allies, which I think is a really fun element of this season. So an actor that I'm a big fan of joins the show, which is really exciting to me. And that's Lily K playing Clara, who's John Dutton's new assistant.
- [40:52]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah, Lily's. Lily's amazing. And for people who follow the cutting world at all, the name Clara Brewer is going to sound a bit familiar because there is one of the best female cutting horse trainers in the world is Kara Brewer. And I Think that that name somehow got into Taylor's brain and made it out onto the page. And Lily Kay is one of the coolest people I've ever met in my life. She would robot dance with us all day long. Jeff, it was just you and I awkwardly robot dancing. But Lily K, she's gonna robot dance with us.
- [41:32]
Jefferson White
She's amazing. I'm really excited. I hope we can get her as a guest in a later episode of the show. Cause I'd love to hear about her background. I've been a fan of her work for a long time. She's amazing and she does an incredible job. Again, stepping basically into the ring with Kevin Costner, with Kelly Reilly, with Wes Bentley, surrounded by these giants, these geniuses, and really holding her own. So I'm so excited to get to know her character and I'd love an opportunity to talk to her some more and get to hear about her process of working on the show.
- [42:02]
Jennifer Landon
Also, just fun fact for the audience, until we get her, Lily, you have no option but to come on the show. When you listen to this episode, I'm.
- [42:10]
Jefferson White
Letting you know we're manifesting.
- [42:11]
Jennifer Landon
We're manifest. This is positive affirmation. Lily is actually has been riding horses her whole life and is a phenomenal writer. And so the audience should look forward to that as well.
- [42:27]
Jefferson White
Yeah. That's incredible. She's playing the governor's assistant. Only on Yellowstone is the young actor who's brought in to play the governor's assistant also an expert writer who can hold her own.
- [42:39]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah. I also have this feeling that Lily is good at everything and somehow is not annoying at all. Usually the two do not go hand in hand.
- [42:50]
Jefferson White
Well, it's funny because I'm good at nothing and very annoying. Sort of on the other side of that spectrum.
- [42:56]
Jennifer Landon
God, you out self deprecated me. You left me no further insult to apply to myself.
- [43:02]
Jefferson White
Yeah, I went nuclear right at the beginning.
- [43:04]
Jennifer Landon
Worse than you because I couldn't come up with one. Okay, so, Jeff, I have a question for you. Even though, unfortunately, as we know, you were not in this episode or the scene, I was curious what your thoughts were about the scene where Colby and Ryan go out and hunt the wolves and end up in a pickle far greater than they expected.
- [43:28]
Jefferson White
Yeah, the bunkhouse. You know, usually these guys, they're good soldiers. They do what they're told. Usually, you know, they've got a few layers of excuses here. They're just following orders. This time they really. They really screw the pooch. So obviously, you know, they find signs that the herd is being hunted by wolves. They find evidence of this. Rip sends Colby and Ryan, Ian Bowen and Denim Richards to go handle it in the dead of night. They're using thermal scopes to try and sort of quietly eliminate the issue.
- [44:02]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah.
- [44:03]
Jefferson White
But because they're using thermal scopes, they don't see that the wolves that they're hunting are wearing these tracking collars, which means they're wolves from Yellowstone national park, which means they are the most protected, sort of most sacred wolves, you know, imaginable. So. So they're basically really, really stepping in it and really causing huge ramifications, potentially huge ramifications for the ranch by killing these wolves. I think it's described in the episode. These wolves have Facebook pages. They're sort of. They are.
- [44:37]
Jennifer Landon
Right.
- [44:37]
Jefferson White
They are like public figures. They're influencers.
- [44:41]
Jennifer Landon
Right. And by virtue of the fact that they're tracking callers, they're going to be able to see where those wolves went and where they maybe started walking at a slightly stranger pattern.
- [44:55]
Jefferson White
Exactly. So we've taken a lot of people to the train station who didn't have the benefit of tracking collars. If you've got a GPS locator attached to you, you can't just get tossed in a ravine somewhere in the greater Tri State area. So they've really stepped in it.
- [45:17]
Jennifer Landon
In many ways. The wolves are a greater threat than any train station victim so far.
- [45:23]
Jefferson White
That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. There wasn't a GPS tracking collar on the Beck brothers. You know, they didn't.
- [45:28]
Jennifer Landon
Right. They also. They didn't take them. They didn't take the wolves to the train station. Right. They took them to the river.
- [45:34]
Jefferson White
Yes. So in an effort to, like, cover up their crimes, basically, they toss these GPS collars into the river, hoping that they'll simply wash downstream, hoping that they'll find their way back into the park and off of the ranch.
- [45:51]
Jennifer Landon
Yes.
- [45:51]
Jefferson White
However, is it bad that all I'm.
- [45:54]
Jennifer Landon
Hearing is the song Take me to the river?
- [45:58]
Jefferson White
Yeah, that's right.
- [45:59]
Jennifer Landon
Drop me in the water.
- [46:01]
Jefferson White
That's a GPS caller singing that song.
- [46:04]
Jennifer Landon
Oh, it's a. Oh, no. In all seriousness, and it's a really confusing issue that no episode is long enough to get into the wolf issue in Montana. And there are many different feelings about how to deal with it and many different sides. And it's, It's. It's complicated and ongoing. That is. That is something that Taylor wrote into the show, and that is something that is very real and current for the people in Montana right now.
- [46:31]
Jefferson White
Yeah. And it's been, you know, wolves as a through line since Yellowstone season one, like wolves, and the question of these wolves, what they represent, both literally, metaphorically and majestically, that's been a part of Yellowstone from the very beginning. And it does feel like in season five here, as the Duttons are increasingly distracted. You know, Rip describes it as, you know, Nero fiddling while Rome burns. You know, as, as they're increasingly distracted, mistakes like this are happening at the worst possible juncture. You know, the forces are spread more thin than ever before and little mistakes like this start creeping in through the cracks. You know, this is the kind of mistake that Casey, you know, Casey has a very specific sort of sacred relationship to these wolves.
- [47:21]
Jennifer Landon
Right.
- [47:22]
Jefferson White
You know, John Dutton understands. John Dutton would never make this mistake. Rip might not ever make this mistake. But these decisions are having to sort of trickle down further and further as the forces are spread more and more thin until mistakes like this can start to sort of creep through. And it'll be interesting to see. This is something that I think we're going to be tracking like a little GPS collar for the rest of the season, you know, to see how this, how this plays out.
- [47:46]
Jennifer Landon
It definitely feels like the thing that's going to come back and bite you in the butt. It just feels like at every turn, this is the thing that's going to come back. And so it has. I mean, I find that to be a brilliant writing device.
- [48:02]
Jefferson White
And it does come back to bite them in the ass very quickly because in episode three, all of a sudden, wildlife agents are showing up for these wolves, right? And all of a sudden they're engaged in this complicated, elaborate cover up to try to basically protect themselves from the legal ramifications of having shot these wolves, you know, and this is a, you know, it's a, it's a big, big crisis. It's a little mistake that can turn into a big crisis for the ranch.
- [48:30]
Jennifer Landon
Which is an even bigger crisis now because of course, John is governor. So it's one thing if just a very massive landowner has it. But now he is in public office.
- [48:47]
Jefferson White
Yeah, it's a huge scandal for a governor, basically. This could cost them everything. It's a little mistake that could cost them everything. I'm trying to think what the saying is. For want of a horseshoe. For want of a horseshoe nail, Rome burned. It's all about Rome.
- [49:01]
Jennifer Landon
I'm very impressed with your idioms in general.
- [49:04]
Jefferson White
Yeah. But I get like half of them. I'm always combining them. You know, two birds in the bush is worth an Apple a day. Listen. So also in episodes two and three, in our flashback sequences, we're getting more sort of. We're revealing more and more of the history, the recent history of the Dutton ranch. We're also seeing a sort of recent struggle that the Duttons had with. With pesticides. We're seeing the return of the king, Josh Lucas as young John Dutton. And it's so fun. I love this moment in the Dutton history because Josh Lucas, John Dutton, is transformed after having lost his wife. When we saw Josh Lucas in season one, it was a. He had a sort of lightness to him, a kind of joy and ease to him. As we reintroduced here, we're seeing that the weight of the loss of his wife, the weight of the responsibility of managing this family and this ranch without his anchor, without his wife to help him keep his family together, is weighing on him heavily. I really am so impressed and kind of inspired and, like, just. Just kind of awestruck by the weight that Josh Lucas is bringing to. To John Dutton in this season. You really. It's connecting the dots between the young John Dutton we saw in season one of Yellowstone and John Dutton as played by Kevin Costner in season five of Yellowstone. It's a really cool performance.
- [50:34]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah. Josh is like an incredibly thoughtful surgical actor, and none of those choices happen. Those are all very conscious choices. None of that is fluke on his part. He's so deeply thoughtful.
- [50:49]
Jefferson White
It's such an exciting. Such an exciting performance. It really. I mean, all those actors in that timeline. That's one of my favorite things about this season, is getting to sort of explore that recent history, these characters that we know so well, getting to see the forces that made them the way they are now. Also in episode three, Sarah Atwood finally sort of springs her trap on Jamie. So market equities and the many forces targeting ranch. I know they've identified Jamie as a kind of potential vulnerability for the Dutton Ranch, for the Dutton phalanx to keep sticking with this Roman imagery. Oh, boy.
- [51:30]
Jennifer Landon
If you're a Roman, just leaning, just go.
- [51:32]
Jefferson White
I know. If you're like a Rome scholar listening to this, and I'm biffing it left and right. I never claimed to be an expert on Rome. I'm not actually an expert on anything. I'm just a moron. So I'm sorry. Um. I'm sorry for what I said about Rome. Uh, listen, listen, listen. The point is that Jamie has been identified as the kind of weak link here, and Sarah Atwood is springing her trap. She's. She's. Sort of setting in to motion this manipulation of Jamie, which is very exciting. Cause Wes Bentley, like. No, but no character on the show has been through quite what Wes Bentley's Jamie has been through.
- [52:08]
Jennifer Landon
No, no. And what makes it hard is that Wes Bentley is truly one of the nicest people I have ever met. And also just funny as all get out. And those two things we don't really get to see much of. You know, Jamie is not a laugh riot.
- [52:31]
Jefferson White
In season episode 501. He really gets me with that when he goes, we're all going to jail. Beth is like, no, it's getting paid to a LLC in Utah. And Jamie's like, we're all going to jail. It's very good.
- [52:44]
Jennifer Landon
He's amazing.
- [52:46]
Jefferson White
And then another very exciting development in a very exciting sort of loose end here in season five, episode three. Basically, Beth's feeling good. She's made a masterful power play to protect the ranch from market equities. She says, hey, fuck it. Take me to the bar. Let's go to the bar. And everybody loads up and rides out and goes to the bar. Will you talk about that a little bit? Because I can't wait to hear what that was like behind the scenes.
- [53:16]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah, I can't talk about it without talking about the moment before in the bunkhouse where she throws out the suggestion of going to the bar. And there was this amazing moment on set where, you know, Rip is definitely sort of the boss that we report to, but now we have the boss. Boss's daughter telling us what to do. And it's this incredible conflict of interest where we're like, do we listen to Rip? Do we listen to her? We were all hoping that we got to go along with her, and we did. Stepping into that bar that night was really. Was really amazing because they did such a great job of making sure everybody looked and felt a bit like phony cowboys, basically, like me. And now I got to be on the other side of that sort of feeling. Some. Not disdain, but just, you know, I felt like they were a bunch of phony baloneys. And, yeah, it was another one of those scenes where you've got a bunch of. We've, you know, we've got so much cast in that scene. Of course, there's an amazing fight that breaks out. J Rod choreographed that. That was incredibly fun. We definitely. We definitely had some improvised moments in that fight scene. There was definitely a few takes. It's, you know, where it was like, okay, guys, improvise. Which is always slightly terrifying, but leads to Some fight gems. But no, J Rod is actually just to not make light of that. J Rod is such an incredible stunt coordinator. He's one of the most technical people I know. And he not only thinks like a stunt coordinator, he thinks like a writer. He thinks like a director. He thinks like an actor. He's sort of brilliant. That scene was a blast. Dancing with Kelly Riley was a blast. And then, of course, we have the great moment where the character Haley, who was, you know, played perfectly by Ashley Platts. Ashley Platz is lovely in real life and just a nightmare of a character in that first scene and comes up to her, and I got the best seat in the house because I sort of got to be almost like a parrot on Kelly's shoulder When she brought that bottle down on her head. And that actress. I mean, it was breakaway, or I have no idea what it was made out of, but she took whatever looked like a real bottle, and she took it on the head, and she sold that real well.
- [55:51]
Jefferson White
So Beth, you know, can't help herself, Starts this huge fight. It devolves into a massive scrum. The cops show up, break this thing up, and there's this important sort of idea that's introduced here, which is that there's a new sheriff in town.
- [56:04]
Jennifer Landon
Right.
- [56:05]
Jefferson White
So for the first four seasons, Sheriff Haskell was an ally to the Duttons, A sort of friend to John Dutton, A longtime sort of supporter of the Duttons and their mission. Now we've got sheriff Ramsey, who's been played by Rob Kirkland since season two. He's the new sheriff, and it's a whole new ball game now. He's not quite so friendly.
- [56:30]
Jennifer Landon
Yeah. It feels like Taylor's ending on this note, again, of everything, is sort of a new ball game at every turn, that the things that were stacked in the Dutton's favor are no longer, and it's just another threat. And as the Dutton world expands, the threats around them get taller and more potent.
- [56:58]
Jefferson White
Yeah, there's more and more sort of holes in the armor, which is a really. I got to say, Beth, Not a great time to go to jail at a time when, you know, John's resources are spread so thin, when they've got so few allies. Beth did not pick a great time to get thrown into jail for starting a bar fight.
- [57:17]
Jennifer Landon
There was no world where that girl wasn't getting hit in the face. If it wasn't. There was just no world where it wasn't gonna happen.
- [57:25]
Jefferson White
Yeah, but let teeter do it. You know what I mean? Let someone who's a little, you know.
- [57:28]
Jennifer Landon
You know, when we were shooting that, I had that. The thought as teeter, like, you know, like, I was ready to take this on. Like, I was like, I'm gonna, you know. And then when she clocked her in the head, I mean, there was one take, I didn't even know it came out of my mouth. She hit her. She hit her so hard, I went, jesus. She had it. I mean, Beth is the toughest female character of all time.
- [58:00]
Jefferson White
She really is the wrong person to pick a fight with. And we're gonna, you know, we'll see the consequences of Beth's actions, of everybody's sort of actions moving forward. And we could talk about this forever. This is three of my favorite episodes of Yellowstone ever. Episodes one, two, and three here. And I also. I can't wait to talk to some of these actors. I can't wait to dig even deeper moving forward as the stories. As these stories progress, all these exciting new plot lines sort of thunder forward. I can't wait to dig deeper and deeper into them.
- [58:35]
Jennifer Landon
I just want to thank you very much for allowing me to join you as a host alongside you. I appreciate your guidance. I enjoy your company and I adore our friendship. And I look forward to digging into the episodes, interviewing actors, and hopefully getting to talk with some people who live the life that we portray on screen and sort of get into the world that is the inspiration for Yellowstone and hopefully eat some good food and get some good wine along the way.
- [59:16]
Jefferson White
Hell, yeah. You said it way better than I ever could have. Thank you for joining us on the official Yellowstone podcast. We'll be back very soon to dig deeper. Bye now.
- [59:36]
Jennifer Landon
Listen to the official Yellowstone podcast every Sunday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.