← The Official Yellowstone Podcast
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- [00:12]
Jeff
Hey, guys. How you doing? Welcome back to the official Yellowstone podcast. I hope you had an awesome Thanksgiving. Hope you got to spend it with family. I hope it wasn't quite as contentious as dinner around the. The Dutton dinner table. I hope it was a little more peaceful. Less stuff was thrown. I am so, so, so glad that you are able to join us again. Season 5 of Yellowstone, it's getting crazy already. It's getting nuts. It's getting explosive. And we have an awesome show for you today. So stay right there and we'll be right back. Jen, how was your Thanksgiving? Where'd you spend it?
- [01:03]
Jen
I spent my Thanksgiving in Texas. We were out here for reasons, you know, maybe show related, maybe not, and I ended up staying out here. I have acquired a camper, Jeff. I am very excited about the camper. So I was here getting the camper sort of fixed up, and I hung out with my buddy Lindy, who needed. He. Who needed an extra hand, so that's what I did. What about you, Jeff? I feel like you had an eventful one.
- [01:33]
Jeff
I had an eventful one, but I just want to. I want to dig in real quick here. So tell us about your buddy Lindy, because Lindy is a bit of a legend.
- [01:41]
Jen
That's right. Jeff, thank you so much for starting what I plan to start, which is basically a promo to get her on the show. So Lindy. Lindy Burch is. Anybody who knows the cutting horse world knows Lindy Burch. She's one of the best cutting horse trainers of all time. I cannot give the list of the things that she has accomplished because there are so many.
- [02:04]
Jeff
She's amazing. She's really a walking, living, breathing legend.
- [02:09]
Jen
Yeah.
- [02:09]
Jeff
She's still competing. Is that right?
- [02:11]
Jen
She's still competing and at an incredibly high level. She has no interest in stopping. And she's really one of the most inspiring, inspiring people I've ever met. And I can't. I can't wait for her to listen to this episode when it airs. So, Scott, you can't cut any of this out.
- [02:34]
Jeff
She's got. She's also an incredible contradiction because she's got this sort of rough. Rough and tough edges of a teeter, but also the incredible sort of kindness, generosity, refinement, and sort of elegance of some of the more of not, you know, verbally. Verbally capable Yellowstone characters.
- [02:54]
Jen
That's correct. She. Refinement is the word. I mean, she's incredibly. She re. She's a voracious reader, and her taste in wine is so expensive that I will never be able to purchase her wine as a gift. I thought $30 was very expensive for a bottle of wine that was like, I'm really gonna splurge here.
- [03:22]
Jeff
And yeah, I want to impress the people at this party. I'm gonna show up with a $30 bottle of wine. That's exactly how I feel.
- [03:27]
Jen
Oh, no, I don't give $30 bottles of wine away. I give like $12 bottles of wine away. I buy myself the $30 bottles of.
- [03:34]
Jeff
Wine that's for mama's secret stash.
- [03:36]
Jen
And then drink the whole thing over the course of an evening and start talking to my television. She. Yeah, yeah, she. She would never touch a $30 bottle of wine.
- [03:47]
Jeff
Listen, also, one thing I just want to, I want to check on real quick that you buzzed past when I asked you how your Thanksgiving was. Is. You've got a, you've got a camper, you've got an rv. Talk us through it.
- [03:57]
Jen
Okay, so how this all came about is we were shooting Yellowstone and you weren't there. And by the way, no more jokes about how it was so much better without you. It was very sad without you. And the audience is sad. Everyone's sad. And there was a lightning storm. And if for people who don't know when there's lightning, you can't shoot for like a half hour from that, you know, moment of lightning. So we were on hold, basically. And because we're shooting out on this ranch, you're not allowed to walk from one place to the other because you can get electrocuted. So I was stuck with Bingham in his car, which isn't a horrible place to be. And I was tired, it was late at night. And he goes, why don't you go get in the camper that he has on the back of his truck? And I thought, no, I'll get a little claustrophobic. And I went back there and it is the coolest thing I've ever seen. It is absolutely beautiful. It's made by Capri campers. And so I started working with the guy who owns Capri, who is the nicest guy in the world. They custom build all of these things. And I've. I'm a huge road tripper. And now I can, I can live out my dreams of sleeping in my car.
- [05:07]
Jeff
This is incredible, this nomad lifestyle, because this is, it's, it's kind of, you know, it's interesting. The more sort of professional cowboys I talk to, the more folks that compete in the cutting world, in the reigning world, in the rodeo world, so much of this Lifestyle is like being a touring musician. You're traveling around the country to compete. You're traveling around the country. There's this kind of beautiful sort of circus mentality. It's not so different from being an actor, which can also be a very sort of nomadic lifestyle, you know, so what a cool thing. You're really embracing it.
- [05:41]
Jen
Yeah. And I was just gonna say, like, Jeff, like, that nomadic lifestyle does parallel so much with actors. And I feel like, in the same way, I don't know. This is really a question for you. I found the more nomadic I become, the more you work, the harder for it is for me to sort of be home, that it sort of changes. Or at least there's this incredibly weird re entry period when I get back. Do you. Do you ever experience that, Jeff?
- [06:13]
Jeff
I think that means that you're like an actual sort of, you know, crazy person. Cowboy, rodeo, Nomad. I think that means this stuff is actually like, in your blood at a part of you. Because, to be honest, I spend a lot of my time on the road simultaneously very grateful to be working, which is a miracle and a blessing, and I feel very lucky, but also just wishing I was back home because I miss my, you know, I miss my beautiful partner. I miss our little cat. I miss our crumbling house in Brooklyn. Yeah. So personally, I don't quite have the call of the wild that you're expressing, but maybe, maybe one day, I definitely.
- [06:52]
Jen
It was definitely a moment where I was watching Chloe Zhao movie Nomad, which is amazing. And for anybody who hasn't seen it, you should see it. And there's a great book that is Nomadland. Yeah, sorry, sorry. I like to get titles wrong. And as I was watching it, I really thought, oh, this looks like heaven.
- [07:11]
Jeff
Francis McDormand. It's one of the greats.
- [07:15]
Jen
Francis should be on our show.
- [07:18]
Jeff
Absolutely. Yeah. Francis, that. I feel like. I feel like after the Helen Mirren Harrison Ford announcement, it's very fun trying to put together, you know, pairs of Duttons for future iterations of the show. Because Francis McDormand, you know, Matthew McConaughey, Francis McDormand, the Rock. I think that's exactly right. That's a match we've all been waiting to see. So listen, this week, episode four of season five of Yellowstone.
- [07:54]
Jen
Yeah, Jeff, where do you think we should start?
- [07:57]
Jeff
Well, let's start where the episode starts, which is Beth facing the consequences of her impetuous decisions in episode three. So the episode opens with Beth in jail, right.
- [08:11]
Jen
Sitting on the mattress. There's that great interaction between her and the other woman in that cell that I just, I sort of. I don't know, I thought that moment was pretty wonderful.
- [08:25]
Jeff
Yeah, it's amazing watching Beth. You know, you find out pretty quickly Beth kind of finds her. People there are. You know, it seems sometimes like Beth wants to fight everybody, but as she sort of, you know, is a tornado careening through life, she does bump into her people sometimes, and it's always fun to see people that she sort of takes a quick liking to.
- [08:46]
Jen
Yeah. And she also, she also. I feel like she has, she has this quality where she is such a clear. She's one of the most clearly defined characters I've ever seen on television, and yet she's entirely mercurial and sort of we find out who she is based on these interactions and we'll get to it later in the episode. But you know, that that moment later in the episode in the car with the little girl, you know, reflects this. We see this other side of Beth and it changes on a dime. And Kelly Reilly also has this like, incredibly mercurial nature, which is why she's such a brilliant actor in the first place.
- [09:25]
Jeff
Yeah, that's what I think. That's. You're exactly right. That that's also like. Beth also is growing and changing over the course of five seasons. And I think her relationship to Carter, her relationship to rip. Her sort of experience this season of parsing through her memories and looking back at a long life of, you know, careening from target to target, destroying everything in her path. It really feels like this season she's examining that and, you know, Nothing articulates that 180 degree switch more than beating the shit out of this woman last night, which gets her thrown into jail and then waking up and having sort of a nice, pleasant kind of, you know, pre coffee conversation with her cellma. Yeah. So, so and so. So Beth wakes up in jail and then of course, who does it fall to to. To rescue her from jail? The last person in the world who wants her out of jail. The person in the world who probably most wants her to stay in jail.
- [10:28]
Piper Perabo
Right.
- [10:28]
Jeff
Which is, of course Jamie. So it, it falls to Jamie to, to bail out his sister.
- [10:36]
Jen
I, I mean, maybe I'm crazy here, but I sometimes I really have a soft spot for Jamie and I find that dynamic really, really fascinating and incredibly painful.
- [10:51]
Jeff
Yeah, it's excruciating. It's watching somebody who. It feels like his whole life he's kind of tried as hard as he can to do right by his family. But over and over again, he winds up at odds with his father, with his sister. You know, he. It really does feel like he has this moral compass, this sort of strong personal code, and he maybe does authentically have the same goal as Beth, the same goal as JD but he approaches it from a completely different sort of tactical perspective, and that puts him at odds with them over and over again.
- [11:26]
Jen
I love the. I don't know if it was the cop or the sheriff or whoever. You know, he says he saved him a lot of paperwork, which I feel like is something that Taylor hits on a lot and is a theme throughout this whole episode in terms of just like, avoiding red tape or like not. And not avoiding it in a way that's like, malicious, but it's just like there's so much red tape that gets in the way of just immediate process. And I think that Taylor offers up really good arguments for and against it. And he does that with Senator Perry at one point in the episode where, like, you know, you know, John fires his entire team. Right. We see later in the episode, and it's sort of great. And his whole thing about, like, not going to the educators luncheon because there's no educators there, it's a Thursday. But then when he sits down with Perry, she sort of makes an argument as to why some of that stuff does matter, you know, and kind of gives him a lecture on, you know, not a lecture, but she teaches him a bit about temperance.
- [12:26]
Jeff
Yeah. This is a fascinating episode for John's, you know, short political career because it feels like exactly as you're describing. He starts by sort of ripping down this red tape by sort of, you know, undoing some of what he might describe as administrative bloat. You know, him and Clara sort of cutting a swath through the many hangers on attached to the office of the governor. And then he has this really. Yeah, this beautiful conversation with, you know, I think Governor Perry is maybe the only politician that John would ever listen to. Like, Governor Perry is the only politician that John is willing to sit down with and can actually sort of get through to him. And she says to him, she says this, this. This governorship is as much your legacy as the ranch is.
- [13:15]
Jen
Right.
- [13:16]
Jeff
And that feels like a really interesting moment and a bit of a transition and a change in the way that John is looking at this. It seemed, you know, in episode one of this season, John says, hey, the only thing that matters, every decision we're going to make, we're going to make on the basis of protecting our ranch you know, which is like the definition of political corruption. He's like, hey, I'm the governor, and all I care about is my own property. No.
- [13:42]
Jen
And she throws on this thing to, like, that ties into that, where she says, you know, it comes up whether or not he can, you know, that basically he can pardon Beth, that now that, you know, he's had honcho, There are a lot of things that he can do, but that it would be political suicide. And it feels like a potential promise of problems to come, because we know that the Duttons do get themselves in. In quite a bit of hot water. That. That is something that could be very helpful for his family, but in a way, it would be the end, you know, of his. Of his legitimacy. And I don't. My. My sense is that John probably doesn't give a crap about his political career, but I do think that he cares about things and people and Montana. And I do think that the Dutton name means something, you know, not to get too crucible, but his name, you know, the honor of his name.
- [14:46]
Jeff
Absolutely. Yeah. And the land itself. It feels like this is an episode where he's starting his. He's recognizing that his responsibility broadens beyond just his own ranch, and he has a responsibility to the ranches that surround his. To the sort of citizens of Montana, to the land of the state itself. And that's a fascinating question for John since the beginning of the show is who do. Who does he have a responsibility to? Is it just his kids? Is it just his kids and his grandkids? But along the way, we've seen him go out of his way to help the people around him, to sort of stand up for and protect this way of life. It's funny you say that the Duttons have a way of getting into hot water. It's really like hot water kind of seems like Beth's natural habitat.
- [15:31]
Jen
Yes.
- [15:31]
Jeff
You know, like, Beth kind of thrives in hot water. So. So it is fun to see, as usual, his. His children careening about creating these issues that he's going to have to decide whether he'll use his political office to save them or various other means, you know, so. So John, as he listens and sort of absorbs wisdom from governor Perry, he's also got this incredible. This is an episode where. So Casey and Monica's son. Newborn son. Is buried in this episode. And that plotline has been so, you know, challenging, painful. It's been obviously a real crucible for Casey and Monica. But also, there's a ripple effect. You know, I think all the characters close to them are feeling the effects of this. And Monica particularly, you know, Monica and John have had such a contentious relationship over five seasons now. There's this beautiful conversation between Monica and John which feels like maybe for the first time, they're connecting in a more sort of instinctual, kind of human, animal level. And John says to Monica about her son, her departed son. All he saw of this planet was you, and all he knew was you loved him.
- [16:52]
Jen
That made me cry that. I mean, even you just saying it, I got a little verklempt it. That was like. I mean, that's an example of like just Taylor at his best always. You know, just. He gets to the heart of things in such a profound way. And tying into that, he also shares this, like, sort of sentiment, which is so true. I think the. I forget which character says it, but that grief isn't, you know, that grief isn't meant to be shared. And there's a few. There's a sort of theme that runs on in this. In the episode, which is how isolating grief is, you know, even if a bunch of people lose the same person. And I can speak from my own experience, like having lost somebody incredibly close to me, you know, when I was very young and having family, we all grieved this person, but it was. It was so isolating. There's. And. And I. And I remember feeling that astutely as a kid that grief is a totally solo experience and that celebration is a group experience. And Taylor, you know, Taylor says comfort. You know, he talks about using comfort. And I thought that was really beautiful.
- [18:13]
Jeff
Yeah. It's another example of the way the show will kind of soar up to these lofty heights, these situations, contexts that are so complicated as to be unrelatable. You know, John's the governor of Montana trying to save his billion dollar ranch. But then it also takes you down to these. The thing that is so fundamental to the human experience, loss, change. Like, that's something that everybody watching the show relates to all of us making the show. Yet there's this kind of fundamental, deep down in your heart sort of feeling that. That this writing and, you know, that this story also really taps into. I found myself very affected by it as well.
- [18:57]
Jen
Absolutely. And the same way that, like, Taylor hits on this theme of, like, let's just call it cutting through the bullshit. You know, whenever he. When he hits these moments that you just talked about, it also reminds you that the other stuff is bullshit. He's cutting through bullshit on so many levels. And also, like, if you know Taylor as a person, he is somebody who cuts through bullshit. Like, you know, there's, there's no artifice there. And. But those, again, we talked about that moment in the hospital sort of cutting through, you know, showing you what your priorities are. You know, the moment in the hospital with Monica at the end of the episode before and then this.
- [19:42]
Jeff
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very powerful affecting sequence. And then, you know, you always know with Taylor, the highs are always going to be followed by brutal lows. But then after the lows, he usually gives you a nice pickup. So. So I love how this episode ends. This episode ends with John exhibiting some really class A1 political corruption and basically releasing Summer from jail into his own custody.
- [20:13]
Jen
Where then Beth has a run in with her, I believe in the kitchen as she's like, which is just like a fun and fabulous moment filled with zingers.
- [20:27]
Jeff
Yeah, those two actors are so fun. We got to talk to Piper a little bit this week, but it's so fun. I love those scenes with Beth and Summer. And this episode also promises a lot more to come because Summer being out of jail and staying at the house means, you know, that those two are going to be butting heads.
- [20:47]
Jen
So in this episode there's this big hole sequence which it's when we're pushing cows. There's a sequence where we're pushing cows down the road. There's cars sort of stopped in the middle. We're going to go help a rancher with his branding. And this honestly should be another episode for another day. That was about a 14 hour day, maybe more. In wisdom Montana, we had 150 pairs, so we had 300 cattle. Those were cows that needed to be branded, tagged, castrated and vaccine inoculated. Right. All of that happened. It was a huge, epic day in one of. And Wisdom Montana is one of the most beautiful places in the world that will never become trendy the way Joshua Tree or Marfa has because the elements are brutal.
- [21:48]
Jeff
Yeah. What an incredible. Was this your first time branding?
- [21:52]
Jen
I had. I've been to a branding before. I have some friends who have a ranch in Mexico and I sort of kind of stood by and helped out with that because I wanted to get a sense for that we were brand, we were branding full grown cows that time. And this, this was my first time branding though. And it was actually my first time healing and dragging the cows. So it was my first time healing too. And fun fact I did. I knew that we would be branding for real. I did not know that we would be Tagging and castrating for real. And these were cows. Again, just to make it clear to the audience and to Peter, these were animals that needed to have this happen. We had professionals there doing the heavy working like the castration. But we roll on take one. I have flanked that calf to the ground. So, you know, it's. Its balls are near my eyes and all of a sudden I see balls flying, testicles flying through the air, and a look of shock and maybe awe was on my face and.
- [22:58]
Jeff
Yeah, and you're describing them.
- [23:00]
Jen
I'm kidding.
- [23:01]
Jeff
You're using a lot of terms that are a little bit inside baseball as a sort of, as a person who's now spent, you know, five years really digging into this and has friends who have a ranch in Mexico. So I'm just going to do a little cowboy glossary for you real quick. So healing means you're up on a horse, you take a lasso, throw it and catch the back two feet of a cow. In this case, a calf dragging means you then pull that rope taut and your horse walks away from the calf such that it's pulled to the ground and sort of tugged along by your, by your horse kind of, it's sort of stretched out on the ground. Flanking means a couple of cowboys grab that little calf who isn't so little, weighs, you know, 200, 250 pounds, and sort of do a kind of tag team jiu jitsu move where you flip it to the ground and pin its legs. It's a very, it's an extremely sort of mixed martial arts style of movement. So that's healing, dragging and flanking. And then you actually, I think you dug into the literal castrating pretty accurately in sufficient detail.
- [24:11]
Jen
I like to lead into that. Taylor writes in the script. And it is true that the whole thing happens. They are branded, castrated and vaccinated in about 15 seconds. And that is true. It's. And they're.
- [24:27]
Jeff
Yeah. So it's a well oiled machine.
- [24:29]
Jen
It's super. It's super fast. It. Yes.
- [24:33]
Jeff
Yeah. It's a pretty remarkable thing to witness. And these guys, these cowboys that do this, you know, who we do it alongside, have done this their whole lives. You know, this is something that when we were down, I went down and helped with the branding at the Sixes in the spring. And guys, you bring out your nine year old kids, you know, who are going to flank for the first time. Six year olds, people. This is a sort of tradition. It's a part of this way of life that people have been doing for more than 100 years. You know, this, this is a particularly, you know, the science has changed and improved in some ways. They're being inoculated with, you know, incredibly advanced veterinary science to protect them against disease and keep these cows healthy. A lot of what you're doing this for is to keep these cows healthy as they age and get older. And it's also really, it's, you know, it's the definition of free range cattle. They live most of their lives just out in these massive pastures. Every now and then. Yeah, yeah, every now and then you got to go grab them and, and give them some medicine.
- [25:28]
Jen
Yeah.
- [25:29]
Jeff
And people have been doing that for like 150 years or longer.
- [25:32]
Jen
And for the people who bucked at it, when they, like when I talked to them about, you know, what we were doing and, you know, I was like, would you rather the cows live indoors in small, little filthy, you know, pens that they can't move around in? Like this is this. It's momentary discomfort for sort of a really a healthier, better way of life?
- [25:54]
Jeff
Yeah, it's a really, it's very, it's funny. It's a, it's both extremely advanced veterinary technology and it at the end of the day boils down to grabbing a 250 pound calf and trying to wrestle it onto the ground, which is, boy, let me tell you, if all goes well, it's a well oiled machine. If one of those, if one of those little guys gets back up on his feet at the wrong time, it gets messy real fast. So this episode. Yeah, a lot of cowboy shit. A lot of pretty incredible cowboy shit, which is very, very exciting to see. Also the reintroduction of our dear friend Piper Peribo. As Summer and I actually had the opportunity to chop it up with Piper a little bit. Before we get into all of that, we're going to step aside really fast. So don't go away. We feel so, so, so lucky to have with us, to have with us in the house today. You know her as Summer Higgins on Yellowstone. As long as many other characters through a long, storied, fascinating career that I can't wait to dig into. Thank you so, so, so much for being here. We're here with Piper Parabo. How you doing?
- [27:14]
Piper Perabo
Hi, Jeff. Good, how are you?
- [27:16]
Jeff
Great. I feel so honored. Thank you so much for joining us.
- [27:21]
Piper Perabo
That's so nice of you to say. It's so nice to be here.
- [27:23]
Jeff
So episode season five, Episode four, we get the triumphant return of Summer. It's been a year, you know, a year has passed since the last time we saw Summer. She's spent a year in jail because of Beth Dutton.
- [27:42]
Piper Perabo
Let's be clear about. Because of who.
- [27:44]
Jeff
That's exactly right, Piper. Summer was a sort of a little bit of collateral damage in an elaborate scheme of Beth's in season four and really suffered the consequences of it. And it's a little ironic because Beth starts this episode out in jail. Beth starts season five, episode four, out in jail. She does, like, one night and she throws in the towel.
- [28:08]
Piper Perabo
Isn't that bullshit?
- [28:09]
Jeff
It's bullshit. Summer did a year.
- [28:12]
Piper Perabo
I know. Summer's harder than she looks. You know what I mean? She may not have red hair, but she can hang.
- [28:18]
Jeff
She really is. She's remarkably resilient, and she's. It's a fascinating character. And you'll please forgive me, because this is a sort of pet fascination of mine, is the sort of the ways in which the narrative of the show and the story of the show line up with and don't line up with reality. The sort of fact of making the show who we are as people and where that does and doesn't intersect with these characters. So Summer, you know, comes into Yellowstone like a tornado in season four. She's this. This force of nature that we're introduced to in season four. And in practical terms, what that means is that you, Piper, are coming into this show. You're coming into this world that has been well established. There's a sort of whole, you know, it's like showing up at a new school.
- [29:06]
Piper Perabo
You know, exactly. As, like, a junior in high school, not, like, as a freshman. You know, everybody knows each other. They know each other's, like, backstory secrets. There's a lot of, like, cafeteria talk that's already happened. And Summer knows nothing. Like, Summer decides to fuck with the Duttons on day one, which, like, you wouldn't do if you went to this high school, you know, she picked the wrong family. You know what I mean?
- [29:26]
Jeff
Exactly. All the cool kids are sitting together at lunch, and Summer shows up. And what I think is amazing is. And a very distinct challenge is not only does Summer show up in season four of this behemoth show, she also shows up in a place of power with a lot of. With a tremendously secure sense of self and a sort of confidence and assertive energy. She doesn't limp into her first day at school exactly like you just said. She comes in picking fights. She comes in with a really sort of strong moral compass and a belief system that she. That is, you know, impervious. To, you know, these huge, huge forces that are attacking her. And that is also the case for you, obviously, for you, Piper, like, you joined the fourth season of this show as a sort of newcomer to the show, but not. But as a sort of veteran and expert actor. As, like, an actor with an incredible, distinct, unique, you know, impressive career of your own prior to joining the show. So will you just talk a little bit about your career prior to Yellowstone for folks who are meeting you now for the first time, will you just give us a little bit of your background?
- [30:41]
Piper Perabo
Sure, sure. I'm an actor. I'm originally from Dallas. I grew up in New Jersey, and then I went to college for acting in Ohio. Appalachian. Ohio. And then. And now I've been working for, like, 20, 25 years. I did a bunch of movies. Like, when I was young, I did this movie called Coyote Ugly about girls dancing on a bar. Or if you're not as old as me, maybe you saw me in a movie called Cheaper by the Dozen, where I'm, like, one of a family of 12 and Steve Martin's my dad. So cool. And I did a show for five years called Covert affairs, where I played a spy, and we traveled all over the world. We actually filmed in 35 countries. So I had done a bunch of stuff, but I had. And I had actually worked, and I actually, you know, did a action movie with Cole Hauser. So I knew Cole Hauser from the old days and what a badass he is. And so actually, in some ways, he and Kelly are two of the most. He and. He and Kelly are two. I know. I knew from stories how kind of what an elegant gentleman Kevin Costner was. So although I'm intimidated by his talent, I wasn't, like, physically afraid. Whereas if you've never met Kelly or Cole, maybe you're, like, a little bit like. But I knew, like, I. I'd worked with Cole before, so I kind of knew what I was getting into. So I just had Kelly to contend with. And I love Cole Hauser, man. Like, we worked together on this action movie called the Cave, where we're cave explorers. He's the head of the cave exploring team. And, like, in Romania, we had a real ball. I mean, he's a real. You know, he's a real tornado. And so it was fun to be around Cole again and fun to have, like, a good buddy on the show when I started out.
- [32:36]
Jeff
Oh, yeah. That's crucial when you're the new kid at school. It's amazing if somebody else transferred there first, you know, you've got your friend at the school already.
- [32:43]
Piper Perabo
Yeah, he's a good friend to have.
- [32:45]
Jeff
What it also sounds like. So it sounds like you have an incredible back, an incredibly varied sort of background. So you said you were born in Dallas, you're born in Texas. You grow up and go to school in New Jersey and then to college in Ohio. So sort of from the beginning, you've been traveling and experiencing all these different slices of life around the country.
- [33:10]
Piper Perabo
Yeah. And I think that's also what acting is, too. They don't really prepare you for that when you're in school, but it's really about you have to learn how to live on the road. I mean, you know that, like, I've lived out of my suitcase for the last 10 months of this year. So it's like, you really have to be, you know, able to take care of yourself and, like, you know, bring along your books and your granola bars and your tequila and get going.
- [33:33]
Jeff
Yeah, exactly. Just the essentials. Granola bars and tequila. You also said, wow, Covert Affairs. You guys filmed in 35 countries.
- [33:40]
Piper Perabo
Yeah. That actually is where I met my husband, Stephen K. Who is one of the executive producers and directors of Yellowstone. He was hired as the producing director on Covert Affairs. And on the first season, we had only shot all the, like, foreign shoots on green screen, which kind of looks like shit. And Stephen was like, let's skinny this down to, like, an indie film and go to Hong Kong and go to Istanbul and go to Buenos Aires and Paris and Berlin and Stockholm. Like, it was fun. Really fun and fun to do it together.
- [34:13]
Jeff
Yeah. What a beautiful thing. That's amazing. So it was a sort of family that. That's a really. Especially if you're going to travel. Like you said, it's better to travel. It's better to live a nomad lifestyle with somebody else.
- [34:23]
Piper Perabo
With somebody else.
- [34:25]
Jeff
Yeah. Center of gravity. Good to share this with you. Yeah. And what an amazing. So. So I guess a theme that I've returned to over and over again in this podcast and just in my life for the past five years of working on this show is that for me, working on Yellowstone has been, more than anything else, such a huge sort of learning experience. It's been stepping into this life that I never would have seen otherwise. I had never set foot in Montana. I had never set foot in Texas. Yeah. And so we are entering these worlds in the same way that perhaps Summer is on the show. So she comes there with a very keen sense of self already. But the thing that I really find fascinating about the character that makes her a lot more than just a sort of archetype or a stereotype is her willingness to listen to and engage with the ideas that she's presented with at the Dutton ranch.
- [35:19]
Piper Perabo
Yeah, I think that's what. I think John Dutton's commitment to his ideals and his willingness to throw down for what he believes in is kind of what they initially connect on. And I think that's really cool. You know, when I first met Taylor Sheridan, he and I don't have all the same beliefs, but, you know, we had a beer together and talked about movies and stories and the world and what we think is working and what we think isn't. And. And I can really respect a guy who's willing to work not just fight for what he wants, but work hard for what he wants. You know, there's a lot of, like, talking and listening that has to happen. That's not always the train station, you know what I mean? And so I think that's kind of what John and Summer have in common, too.
- [36:12]
Jeff
Yeah, that's a really smart way to put it. And a fascinating lens through which to examine that relationship and the way it mirrors the real life process of working on the show. Because the sort of seeming incompatibility of people like Sommer and John Dutton, which is played for humor on the show, but it's also sort of at the heart of the conflict there, you know, and we see how it drives Beth absolutely fucking crazy. And. And part of that might be that they're very. They have a very similar commitment and passion applied to two completely different sort of ideological, like, frameworks.
- [36:56]
Piper Perabo
Totally. And I think that Beth. I think Beth and Summer, if they could listen to each other, would get along a lot better. You know what I mean? It's just that John and Summer listen to each other and Beth just pulls a kitchen knife on somebody.
- [37:09]
Jeff
Yeah. Beth's not quite ready to have that conversation yet. That feels like it's a testament to John's maturity. John doesn't get defensive. He doesn't really have anything to prove. He seems very secure in his sense of self, whereas Beth is.
- [37:23]
Piper Perabo
Beth pulls a kitchen knife before she knows who you are.
- [37:26]
Jeff
Yeah, in most cases. In most cases, Beth pulls a kitchen knife, which is absolutely, you know, it's what we love about her, too.
- [37:34]
Piper Perabo
That's one of the things I love about her.
- [37:36]
Jeff
Yeah. And I think a fascinating sort of, you know, mirror here is in order to make Yellowstone a bunch of us who come from all over the place, you know, I'm I grew up in Iowa, and now I live in New York City. You. You were born in Texas, grew up in New Jersey, went to school in Ohio, and now you find yourself in Montana. A bunch of us from all over the place, from a lot of different backgrounds show up in Montana, tasked with the tremendous responsibility of, you know, telling this story. And the common ground we often find is a shared passion, a shared commitment to craft, a shared sort of appreciation and respect and willingness to listen. And, like, film sets are such a funny environment. There's so many people from different backgrounds with different skills, different personality types, like, the kind of person.
- [38:35]
Piper Perabo
Yeah, it's really collaborative art film. It's not like when you're a painter and you can just stand there and you can begin when you want and end when you want. Like, it's very collaborative making a TV show. But I think one of the things that's so fortunate for us is that we make it in Montana. And when. I'd never been to Montana until this show, and when you see. I mean, I'm a. I fly fish. So when I finally saw the Bitterroot river for the first time, I can really understand what people are defending and standing up for. You know what I mean? Those rivers and that. That country. That part of our country is really rare and beautiful. And so, of course, people would stand strong for something like that. Whether you're native and you're talking about your tribal lands or whether you're a rancher and you're talking about your ranch, I can really understand where the conflict comes from, because who wouldn't defend something as kind of awesome as Montana? Do you fly fish?
- [39:27]
Jeff
No.
- [39:28]
Piper Perabo
Oh, come with us, bro.
- [39:30]
Jeff
I have. I think I. You know, it's a lifestyle. It's a sort of comprehensive, holistic lifestyle. You're describing having done it since you were a kid. It's too late for me, Piper. I missed it? No, bro.
- [39:44]
Piper Perabo
No, no, no. I only learned to fly through, like, a few years ago, and I did it with Greg. The first ad, not this past season, but the one before Gilman. He had rented his house on an arm of the Bitterroot river, and so he invited Stephen, had to go over there and work out schedule for an episode. And Steven was like, we should come. It's right on the route. And so we brought our rods. And then when they finished their meeting, we took six packs, and it was July by then, so you could just put on shorts and sneakers and walk into the river. You know, you're at, like, thigh deep and tie your Six pack to the tree in the river where you're fishing and you fish and then when you get thirsty, your beer's already cold, bro. It's in the river. So, I mean, then after that I was like, wait, why are we living on the river but come fishing with us. It's so fun.
- [40:38]
Jeff
That's amazing. I think of all the characters on Yellowstone who the audience would expect to be serious fly fishers. You're going to surprise them and you're going to delight them, because that's amazing. That also just shows something that I admire so much, that I aspire to, is to go to these new places and fully immerse yourself as you're describing. Fully immerse yourself wherever you are. I think that's an act of respect, it's an act of love for a place to have the sort of courage and vulnerability to say, I'm going to fucking wade out into that river. That's a beautiful. It's a depth of experience. And I think something that we're, you know, a question about this lifestyle, about this sort of nomadic lifestyle, is we get a breadth of experience. We go to a lot of places. I've, I've stayed in hotels in a lot of cities. Yeah, but what you're describing is also a depth of engagement. It's a sort of meaningful, rich, full engagement with a place. And that's, that's beautiful. I just admire that so much.
- [41:52]
Piper Perabo
Thanks. I. I think that when you do that kind of engagement, like, you know, when you fly fish, the fly that you're putting on the line, you have to know what time of year and what time of day it is, because the larva, the like insect eggs on the surface of the water and the bugs at different times of day, that's how you're choosing what fly you're using. So you have to go to a fly shop. And who you really want to talk to is the old guys who've lived there for a long time, who could say, like, it's terrestrial season, you might want to switch to this. Or Purple Haze is really hitting right now. But by going to the fly shop and talking to the old guys about fly fishing, yeah, you learn about fly fishing, but even better, you learn about the old guys, you know, and they're saying like, well, we, you know, we get our game processed at this place or we get our beer over here, or, you know what I mean? Like, oh, well, there's a fundraiser for the school fair. It's going to happen at the rodeo grounds. Like, that's how you kind of get into the community is like some activity that the place is known for, or at least that's how I get in that.
- [42:52]
Jeff
That is truly remarkable. And I, forgive me for once again commenting that what you're describing there is also sort of the kind of openness and willingness to engage that Summer exhibits in her sort of willingness to listen to John Dutton. Right?
- [43:08]
Piper Perabo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Totally. I really want you to come fly fishing with us next season.
- [43:14]
Jeff
I will fuck it up. You'll. The sort of beautiful, tranquil time you're describing. I'm going to. It's all I've ever done is rue. People are so nice to me. They say, oh, come along and, you know, have a good time. And all I ever do is fuck up somebody's perfectly pleasant afternoon. So I'll spare you that.
- [43:34]
Piper Perabo
Have you ever read that book A River Runs Through It? That little novella?
- [43:38]
Jeff
Yeah, yeah, I read it in my channel.
- [43:39]
Piper Perabo
Yeah, yeah. Any Yellowstone fan that's like between seasons, that needs a. Like a taste, I feel like that's like a good hold you over. But once you read that book, I don't know how you could not fly fish.
- [43:50]
Jeff
Okay, we're gonna step aside real quick, so don't go away. We'll be right back to step away from the show for a minute. Will you just. Is there anything you've learned or experienced through your time in Montana that's become important to you? Like, how has. You know, we've. We endeavor not to change the state in our participation there. How is the state changed you?
- [44:22]
Piper Perabo
There are two big ways. One is I was really unaware of the indigenous communities and the native communities in that part of the country. And Mo Briggsplaney, who's on the show with us, he is the liaison between Yellowstone and the native communities in Montana. And so being a friend of his is a fast way to sort of learn about all that's going on and, you know, how we interact and with those communities. And then also, I didn't know about cutting on horseback. You know, that was. I knew how to ride western, but I had never even heard the word cutting. And so Jake Reams, who's in the bunkhouse, is also a great, you know, horseman rider. And so he started teaching me the season in Utah. I think that I went, am I even. Even been Before I started, he started teaching me how to cut and that kind of work. Working horseback riding, I didn't really know anything about. And I think that's really cool. So, like, when we were all down in Texas for the reshoots. And we were with. At Taylor's place, just, like, hearing people talk about cutting and the roper boots and, like, there's just, like, a whole language of working cowboys that doesn't always get into the. You know, like, in a show that's less accurate than Yellowstone, they don't really get into all the. Like, Yellowstone does get into all that because Taylor wants it to be so authentic. But I think until Yellowstone, I hadn't heard all these words about a work, how cowboys really work. It was like, guitars and, like, they're sleeping with, like, a pot of beans. But I didn't really know, like, what they did. You know what I mean?
- [46:04]
Jeff
I do sleep with a pot of beans every night as part of my process.
- [46:08]
Piper Perabo
Cowboys, like, all have a guitar, and then they're all, like, heating up a pot of beans, and then they're, like, by themselves. Yeah, the stars. And they're crying and they, like, sleep on their coat. And I was like, that's beautiful, too.
- [46:18]
Jeff
Dang. That's a hell of a. I'm an option, what you just said. Yeah. And it's funny because Taylor talks about how he. Taylor, you know, there is a lot of minutia in the show. There's a lot of these sort of details about this world that a lot of people, myself included, were not familiar with prior to Yellowstone. One thing I admire about Taylor is that he also writes it from an insider's perspective. There's not a ton of explanation. You'll see something happening, and he's writing it for the folks that already know what's happening. Like, Taylor is writing these jokes and these sort of, you know, he. He's exploring this world, the cutting horse world, the reigning world, performance horses, cow horses, roping, wrangling, rodeo. He is exploring that from inside of it, as opposed to starting from the outside. You know, it's not necessarily an initiation in the way he's writing it. He's writing it as an expert, you know.
- [47:11]
Piper Perabo
Yeah. It's almost like he's writing it for his. At his level. And you're welcome to follow along if you can keep up.
- [47:19]
Jeff
Yeah. Which leads.
- [47:21]
Piper Perabo
I prefer that in a way, as an audience.
- [47:23]
Jeff
Well. And as a participant. Yeah. It's a very fun thing to be treated like an expert. He's writing it for experts. And so you go, oh, shit, I better figure it out. And that's our, you know, our characters. Both your character and mine started on this show as outsiders, you know? Outsiders.
- [47:36]
Piper Perabo
Yeah. I remember when they taped you to the Saddle.
- [47:38]
Jeff
Yeah. And just throughout, like, for the last five years, there's been so many things. I'll read the script and I'll be like, oh, man, I'm. I think I'm supposed to know what the fuck that means. There's so many names in the script. There's so many, like, pieces of, like, horse, you know, various horse, you know, peripheral. Like, like little bits. Yeah. That I'm supposed to understand what they mean. And I'm still. I'm still catching up to it. Yeah, exactly. So. So, yeah. Amazing. I mean, what. What an incredible thing. I'm also amazed to hear that you're. Of all the people in the cast who the audience might expect to have gotten into cutting and to be sort of practicing, like, in this kind of. You are somebody who, even though that's not necessarily asked of you on the show, it's so clear that you have chosen to, like, dig deep into this stuff and sort of learn as much as you can about this world. And I think that's incredibly admirable. So, Piper, when did you first meet Taylor Sheridan? How did you come to work on the show? Talk us through that.
- [48:42]
Piper Perabo
So it's sort of a little bit roundabout, but my husband, Stephen K. Who, you know, who's an EP on the show and also directs a bunch. Oh, wait, he's running in.
- [48:51]
Jen
Hold on.
- [48:52]
Piper Perabo
Say hi. Oh, wait, I'm on my ear.
- [48:55]
Jeff
This is like wwe. It's like there's a fight going on and. Oh, wait a second. That's Stephen K's intro music. Boom, boom, boom. You're coming down the ramp. Thank you. I was gonna ride in.
- [49:07]
Piper Perabo
Oh, in the house.
- [49:09]
Jeff
It's weird. Stephen, I hope you'll join us. I hope you'll join us sometime to talk about your experience of all this and contradict Piper's experience. Yeah, it's creepy that you wouldn't have invited me, but it's cool. It's cool. The producers. The producers have tried to keep you away from this for so long. I've been fighting to get you on the show. The producers, they know. They think you're a live wire. Yeah.
- [49:33]
Piper Perabo
Yeah, you are. Live wire. That's actually true.
- [49:37]
Jeff
My man is baking a gluten free pie right now. If that's not, you know, anarchic chaos, I don't know what is.
- [49:46]
Piper Perabo
For all the kids, this is a.
- [49:48]
Jeff
Little something for the kids. Oh, sweet. Yeah. All right, brother. Bye. I'm letting you guys talk. I don't want to, you know, horn in on her ear time. It's Great to hear from you, man. We'll. We'll get you in another time.
- [50:01]
Piper Perabo
We'll get to it another time. He says, I love you.
- [50:03]
Jeff
I love you, Stephen. Oh, now that he's gone, Piper. Now that he's gone.
- [50:12]
Piper Perabo
He. He. He directed Taylor. Wait, boo. Was it Sons or Shield? He directed. Even my husband directed Taylor Sheridan in Sons of Anarchy when Taylor was an actor, and they became, oh, pie's gotta come up. And so they became friends. And when Taylor started writing, actually, Stephen read an early draft of Hell or High Water, when it was called Comanche Area, and they started writing. And so then Stephen came in to direct in season two. And I think the reason Taylor trusted him, it's just my guess, but because he knew Steven already as a director. And anyway, so that's how it starts. And then. And even though they're different, they're kind of similar in a way, too. You know, the kind of old school dudes, old school men. And then. And then I came to visit Stephen in Utah when you guys were filming, and Taylor and Nick had us over the house for dinner. And I had just been arrested in D.C. for protesting the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. I went. I interrupted Chuck Grassley in the Senate Judiciary hearing and protest. Like, there was like 300 women that day that were all, you can sit in a Senate Judiciary hearing. You can sit for like 10 minutes. And then the next 20 people online, like, the 20 people are. It's not that big of a hearing room, so 20 people are ushered out, and then 20 more people get to sit in and listen to the hearing. And so all these women who. Mostly women who didn't want having on the Supreme Court, had organized to get online. And so I was. Had been online, like, since pre dawn, waiting. And. And then you. You stand up and you start saying why you opposed the nomination, and you're arrested for civil disobedience. And I was arrested with hundreds of women that day, but that had just happened. And then I flew to Utah to have dinner with Stephen and Nick and Taylor. And it came up at dinner, and Taylor was like, wait, what? And I started saying, oh, I was arrested at civil disobedience. And he was like, go through the whole thing. Like, who calls you to go there? Like, what's your goal? What's the security? Like, what kind of jail? How much? What's the bail? Like, he wanted. All of a sudden the writer was there, you know, and he like, dinner kind of screeches to a halt, and he's got 800 questions about when you're arrested in a city in America on civil disobedience. And so. And then he was like, fucking politics and fucking D.C. and, you know, he gets, like, on his jack and. But it was cool. And even though I don't know how he feels about Kavanaugh, that didn't come up. He was more interested in kind of the story of it. And. And then about, I don't know, like, a month or so later, he said to Stephen, I'm gonna write her a part about a woman who gets arrested for protest. And that's where Summer came from.
- [53:13]
Jeff
Wow. So you actually got arrested as part of a protest action. Went to Utah, had dinner with Taylor, you guys. He dug into the details of it and then created the role of Summer based around a sort of similar experience. A woman being arrested for a protest action.
- [53:32]
Piper Perabo
Right. It was cool because actually, that was the first time I'd ever been arrested for civil disobedience. And so I knew all that stuff because I was so nervous to get arrested. I didn't. Like. I wrote Stephen's number on my arm and Sharpie in case they took everything. Like, how do I get. You know, how do I. What if I get scared? I can't remember my husband's phone number. I had bail. Bail money. Cash in one pocket, and then bail money in case somebody else didn't have money in the other pocket. And, like, the cell phone, the battery, my number, because they take almost everything, you know, and I. My id. But I was really. I'm like a Girl Scout, you know, I was, like, really prepared to get arrested. And so Taylor was really into that.
- [54:12]
Jeff
That's amazing. What. What tremendous courage. And then also, what a sort of incredible seed for this character. And what it also, like, incredibly sort of, you know, Summer has been. I have no doubt that some people listening to this, you know, big fans of Beth, you know, maybe people are.
- [54:34]
Piper Perabo
Not fans of Summer. I know they're not. And, like, I sort of admire Taylor even more because, you know that a lot of the Yellowstone crowd is going to be like, who's this bitch? You know what I mean? This, like, coastal environmentalist, blah, blah, blah. But also, it's like, you know, Yellowstone needs conflict. That's what makes it so good, is all the warring factions. And because I really care about our civil rights, our right to vote, right to bodily autonomy, right to marriage. It's so fun that a great American writer wrote me the part of an activist. Like, it. That's the only time it's Ever done that, you know, and come together like that. That's.
- [55:14]
Jeff
That's rad. It's incredible. And it also, I think it's. It's incredible a thing of Taylor's, which is that, you know, he writes these characters that maybe could be easily dismissed under certain circumstances or some. Some percentage of the audience almost wants to easily dismiss. They want to say exactly what you just said. Oh, this lady from the coast is, you know, she's coming in here. What does she know? Or a character like, for instance, Rainwater in season one who the audience might have wanted to conveniently, easily dismiss. And then Taylor sticks with these characters. Over time, they grow more and more complicated. You come to see their perspective. The characters themselves are listening and learning and sort of. It really helps, I think, challenge the kind of good guy, bad guy paradigm that is so reductive. And it helps to make all of these characters, I think, that Summer's role on this show. Summer has herself, you know, our relationship to her has grown and changed and will continue to grow and change, but she also helps. She. She's changed John Dutton. She's changed Beth. Like, coming into contact with these people with differing viewpoints, differing ideologies, different experience, differing experiences. Coming into contact with them gives everybody an opportunity to grow and learn and sort of become more complicated than just these cardboard cutout, black and white, very easily dismissed good guys and bad guys, you know?
- [56:46]
Piper Perabo
Yeah, I think that's so cool. And like, that's like, you know, maybe what we could do as a nation.
- [56:53]
Jeff
100% listen to each other. If John Dutton and Summer can listen to each other, can find some common ground, then so can we. You know, if people from such an.
- [57:05]
Piper Perabo
One night stand, maybe all of us.
- [57:07]
Jeff
That'S what America needs. America needs to have a one big, messy one night stand.
- [57:11]
Piper Perabo
One big one night stand. Nobody cares on the Supreme Court then.
- [57:17]
Jeff
Exactly. Relax. Get a little bit of the tension out. It also, I think, you know, as the season moves forward, I'm very excited for the audience to get to see more of Summer. It feels like the episode we've just seen, episode four, is a little sneak peek of what's to come.
- [57:32]
Piper Perabo
It's just the beginning. It's just the beginning, and I can't. I know I'm not allowed to say what happens, but it gets so hardcore. I mean, people are gonna go nuts, dude. It's so out of control. I literally sent a picture to my mom after one day of shooting, and I'm like, I can't tell you everything, but this Is happening. Mom's like, oh, my God. Like, so.
- [57:58]
Jen
So cool. Crazy.
- [57:59]
Jeff
What happens, Mom? It gets. It gets intense. Mom, just get ready. Prepare yourself. I also, you know, ready to cover your eyes, Mom. I have to warn. Anytime some happens to Jimmy, I have to warn my whole family really explicitly. I have to be like, okay. But I. You know, I don't know about you. I'm always playing these characters who, generally speaking, deserve to get the kicked out of them and then do so. My poor grandma. It's like she's got. My grandma has seen everything conceivably bad happen to me. She's watched me get stabbed, like, thrown off cliffs. Exploded shot. Sorry, Grandma.
- [58:36]
Piper Perabo
My grandma. My grandma's not with us anymore, but my grandma, I. When I had an episode of Television come on, she would invite, like, her older lady friends to come over to watch the show, and she couldn't remember everything, but I would call her, like, half an hour before the show comes on the air, and she'd be. And I'll be like, okay, so this is the bad guy. This is like the. I'm gonna have an affair with. This is the criminal. And so she would, like, be like, okay, I got it. And then she liked to watch the show with her friends, but when some character comes, well, I wouldn't trust him because she likes to know everything.
- [59:08]
Jeff
Oh, my God. You were feeding her. You were feeding her the inside info. That's incredible.
- [59:12]
Piper Perabo
I wanted to be the insider. So cute.
- [59:14]
Jeff
That's so funny.
- [59:16]
Piper Perabo
It must be so hard to do this podcast and know all the secrets and, like, not slip.
- [59:22]
Jeff
You know what's. What makes it a lot easier never setting foot in Montana one time this whole season, you know, it really makes it a lot easier.
- [59:33]
Piper Perabo
That's crazy. That's crazy. That's right.
- [59:37]
Jeff
Yeah. Yeah. So it's been way easier to keep the. Keep a handle on the spoilers when Jimmy is right.
- [59:43]
Piper Perabo
Because you didn't see it. You didn't see it go down.
- [59:46]
Jeff
I didn't see it go down.
- [59:47]
Piper Perabo
Crazy shit goes down this season. Some. I mean, crazy.
- [59:52]
Jeff
I think that's an amazing place to leave it. I think that's an amazing place to tease our audience. There is some amazing shit going down. Piper, I am so grateful for your time. We all are.
- [60:04]
Piper Perabo
Thank you so much. Thanks for talking with me. It was really fun. I'm going to make you come fly fish with me.
- [60:11]
Jeff
I will. Yeah. I'll ruin at least one perfectly pleasant afternoon.
- [60:16]
Piper Perabo
You bring the six pack and nothing will be ruined.
- [60:26]
Jeff
As always, we appreciate you spending time with us here. It is such an honor. We love talking to you. We love hearing from you. This whole thing is kind of an extension of conversations that we see you having on social media. So make sure you subscribe so you never miss a new episode of the Official Yellowstone Podcast. You can listen to the Official Yellowstone Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts.