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- [00:07]
Jefferson White
Welcome back to the official yellowstone podcast. I'm Jefferson White. I am joined, as always, by Jen Landon. And we have a fun show on tap for you today with a guest that we've been talking about for the past couple of episodes.
- [00:21]
Jen Landon
Yeah, Jeff, I. I don't know if I could be more excited than I am about today's episode, and I feel like we all have crushes on our guest that we're going to be speaking to soon, which is the amazing Brandon Sklenar, who plays Spencer Dutton.
- [00:38]
Jefferson White
Yeah, he. It took him six months. He had to cross several oceans, and now we've got him in the studio today. I am so excited to talk with Brandon. He's one of my favorite actors in 1923. It's one of my favorite characters in 1923. And like, we've been watching this show, we've seen seven episodes of this now. I'm a huge, huge fan of the show, and I can't wait to hear about his experience working on it right after this quick break.
- [01:12]
Jen Landon
Okay, so I'm really excited to talk to Brandon in a little bit, but the last time you and I spoke, Jeff, we were on episode four, and a lot has happened since then. So home. The home that. That the Spencer character is returning to, looks very different than it did. Well, let's say at the beginning of episode four. Certainly.
- [01:33]
Jefferson White
Yeah. It's been. It's been a transformative season for the Dutton ranch itself. You know, Spencer's been on this epic journey all around the world, trying to reach home. And the real question is, is there going to be anything left by the time he gets there?
- [01:49]
Jen Landon
Right.
- [01:49]
Jefferson White
So when we last spoke about 1923, Jacob had been shot. John Dutton had been killed. It was a really, like, low moment for the ranch.
- [02:01]
Jen Landon
Does. Is Spencer aware that his brother has been shot and killed in that letter? I can't remember.
- [02:07]
Jefferson White
I don't think so. I think. Oh, yes, he is right. He is aware. That's right. Alex reads him that letter.
- [02:13]
Jen Landon
Yeah.
- [02:13]
Jefferson White
Yeah. And that's. It feels like what is the final straw that summons him home?
- [02:18]
Jen Landon
Right.
- [02:18]
Jefferson White
It feels like he's been resisting coming home. Kara's been sort of trying to get in touch with them. And then it feels like this attack, this sort of savage attack on the Duttons and his family is. Is what finally spurs him into motion to head home. Jacob is wounded. Jack is, like, bloodthirsty.
- [02:39]
Brandon Sklenar
The.
- [02:39]
Jefferson White
The journey that Jack has been on is fascinating. And I get it. Right. His. His father was killed. His mother dies. He is on this kind of this personal he seems. And Kara says this to him over and over again, like, you know, your vision, You've got to come back to reality. This sort of revenge fantasy, this, like, bloodthirst that you're feeling is not what we need. This is not constructive. It's a kind of maze that he's lost in. And then there's this beautiful moment when he finally sort of the haze clears because Elizabeth, his fiance, is going to leave him. She says, all right, get me out of here. If you're. If all you are is a killer, if all you can think about is revenge, then we're done. And that's the sort of final straw that thankfully pierces through that fugue state he's in. So he comes back to reality and accepts his responsibility. You know, it really. He has his own version. We've seen Spencer struggle with this death drive. This kind of. In the wake of the tragedy that Spencer has witnessed and faced, he's been almost trying to get himself killed, big game hunting. We've seen Jack experience his own version of the same thing in the wake of the death of his father. You know, Jacob being shot, feeling so helpless and impotent. We almost see him driving towards his own death senselessly. And it makes me think of a moment where that. A thing that Rip says to Jimmy in, like, season two of Yellowstone, Jimmy wants to just get up and go and attack the men that killed his grandfather. And Rip's like, no, no, no. I'm gonna show you how to get rid of problems so they don't become bigger problems. And it feels this whole time like Kara's saying, jack, calm down. We've got to be logical. We have to take care of this in a way that isn't gonna create a bigger issue for us or kick the hornets nest. We have to do this the right way or they are going to win. If we. If we rise to this drive for revenge, we're going to be overpowered and killed. That's not going to work. That tactic isn't valid on that front.
- [04:52]
Jen Landon
And again, we can ask Brandon this, but do we think that Spencer's motivation for coming home is to take care of his family, protect his family, or this vengeance that seems to kind of permeate through the Dutton line?
- [05:09]
Jefferson White
That's a great question. And I bet it. I bet it's that that motive is changing over time as he himself kind of comes back to life in his love for Alex. You know, like, we've seen his death drive evolve. We've seen him sort of Wake up in some ways to the possibilities of life, the sort of beauty of life through this epic journey he's having alongside Alex, which is another to me, I gotta say, another sort of Rip and Casey parallel. These characters who have been sort of taken all the way up to the edge of despair, been taken all the way up to the edge of the sort of cliff of misery, and are brought back to life by the women they love, by their families, by a sort of sense of responsibility to the people they love. I feel like we've watched Spencer go through that journey and we've watched Jack go through that journey, and even Jacob. Even Jacob is listening to Kara and sort of tempering his own desire for revenge, his own desire to sort of kick back at the men that. That were. That wronged him. Kara really feels like the mediating impulse in all of it.
- [06:21]
Jen Landon
Yeah, Basically what Taylor's writing over and over again is that all men would just be dead, essentially, if there weren't women around to say, honey, chill out, have a drink, whatever you need. Soften the heart, you know, don't kill yourself.
- [06:37]
Jefferson White
I think that's right. And Kara says. I think Kara says to Banner himself, she says, men kill quickly. You're going to wish that it was that easy. Women kill slowly. And it seems really clear to me that Kara's not. It's not that she doesn't want vengeance. She wants vengeance as much as anybody else. Right. She. Her husband was shot right in front of her. Her nephew was killed. Like, there's. She's suffered as much as anybody else as a result of this attack. So she wants vengeance. She just wants it in a sort of methodical, calculated way that's going to last.
- [07:18]
Jen Landon
Right. So that. So that protection is still, like, maybe her bigger motivator in the long run, that it might be deadlier to everybody else who is her enemy, but that its primary motivator is in vengeance. But protection.
- [07:34]
Jefferson White
Yeah, we've seen this across all of these shows. You know, if you take justice into your own hands, you're cutting off hydra heads. But two more grow back. You know, every sort of enemy that John Dutton has struck down in Yellowstone, they tend to come back more with new weapons, with new sort of forms. You know, Rip kills. What's his name? Oh, this is the ultimate. The ultimate humiliation is. I've forgotten his name. Roark. He kills Roark in the river with the snake. What happens? A bigger batter snake shows up on a plane from New York City. Right? You take justice into your own hands. You don't Build sustainable, lasting solutions. So part of what Kara is doing here is saying, no, no, no, don't just get on a horse and go shoot some more. Then they're going to hire more guys, they're going to come back over here and they're going to kill more of us. She's saying, let's do this right? Let's do this, you know, legally. Let's bring these institutions in to this justice such that it lasts and perseveres so that, you know, the next time she turns her head, she's not losing another precious member of her family. And, you know, who better to help than Spencer Dutton, right? Spencer has. You know what? I'm. I'm amazed by Spencer because he's got this kind of cool logic to him, Even while he is an incredible. And listen, my man can kill. He's got that dog in him. He has killed pretty much every zoo animal. He's killed all my favorite zoo animals so far. Out of necessity, with. With respect, out of necessity. But he also has this kind of cool, methodical head in these moments, you know, when they're stuck on the capsized tugboat and you know, Alex, you know, like exposure kills you on. In the middle of the ocean real quick. You got the sun beam down on you. You're dehydrated. He stays cool. He stays methodical. He's a survivor. He's exactly the soldier that Karen needs. So obviously, Spencer, you know, this vital soldier in the Duttons effort to keep their ranch is headed home. And he's heading home to face a multitude of threats. One of my favorite parts of 1923 has been this really interesting, cool villains. You know, we've seen Donald Whitfield, right, this kind of big business robber baron, almost sort of circling, representing one side of this equation that will, of course, play out again in Yellowstone. Representing big money, representing industry, representing the desire to sort of pillage this land to pull resources out of it. But then we also. One of my favorite characters on the show who I'm just absolutely obsessed with because I love this actor, too, is Banner, right? Jerome Flynn's character, Banner Creighton. Because I love seeing him sort of go through this journey. Starting out as basically a sheep herder who is in a desperate position, Somebody with very little. One of many sheep herders sort of having to make this desperate play, banding together his sort of compatriots and attacking the Duttons, the most powerful, richest institution in the valley, Attacking them, and in doing so, also enriching himself immensely. I love the team Up. I really do love the team up of Donald and Banner because they represent these two completely different sides of the coin. It's such a funny odd couple. And I could endlessly watch Banner sort of walk through his brand new house, turning on the faucets, drinking champagne, experiencing the other side of his life. You know, we're watching all these characters, part of this, you know, one of the big kind of themes of the show is modernity, the steady march of modernity. There's all these questions about, wait, is the railroad coming, is electricity coming, is plumbing coming? Washing machines, obviously. I get so excited about this stuff, I could talk about it all day. I'm going to spare you all that. We're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we've got with us the incredible Brandon Skar. So stay right there. You know, we get the gift of talking to a lot of our friends on this show. We get the gift of talking to a lot of our co workers. In this case, Jen and I feel incredibly lucky to talk to an actor that we're just fans of. We've both been watching 1923. We've been gushing to you, this audience about it for weeks. And perhaps no character more than Spencer Dutton. So we feel incredibly lucky to have with us today an actor whom we admire very much. Brandon Sklenar. Thank you so much for being here, man.
- [12:26]
Brandon Sklenar
Yeah, of course, man.
- [12:27]
Jen Landon
Happy to be here, Brandon. I'm just going to start at the very beginning. Like, what? Can you just tell us a little bit about how this, like, role came to you? What that audition process was like. Had you seen Yellowstone before, et cetera?
- [12:46]
Brandon Sklenar
Yeah, yeah, I, I've been wanting to work with Taylor for a long time, a really long time, since I saw Heller High Water years ago. And he was kind of at the top of my, top of lit, top of my list in terms of filmmakers and creators. And my manager called me and he was like, hey, that 1923 project you've been tracking for a while, they want to read you Papsidera. John Papsidera is a casting director on there. He's a good friend and he's, he's cast me and I think four or five projects and he's like, passes casting it and you got a role for you. And I was like, oh, shit. Okay. So he sent it over and yeah, and I just immediately resonated with it, just in the breakdown and on the page and felt, I felt good about it. You know, I felt confident about it from the jump and Like I said, it just resonated with me in a way that I hadn't really felt before with anything I'd come across or audition for. And it was. It was honestly out of anything I've ever done. It was the quickest and most painless casting process. It was so fast. You mean sometimes these things drag out for three or four months and you're just losing your mind, you know, so it was great.
- [14:02]
Jefferson White
Sometimes it's just right. Man. Jen and I were marveling before you got on at what exquisite casting this is. It really is an incredible, energetic match. Will you talk a little bit about the experience of functionally sort of going on this personal journey, this kind of.
- [14:22]
Brandon Sklenar
Adventure, just their creative process, Taylor's creative process, and just this whole sort of Yellowstone universe that he's created. And I can't speak to any of his other projects, but I imagine they're pretty similar. I mean, they are so immersive and, you know, in terms of acting and having to create things for yourself, for them to be real, I mean, they take care of so much, so many things for you, just really throwing you on that. And my personal journey as an actor and as a person mirrored Spencer's in so many ways just is kind of eerie, you know, and just being out there in Africa and trying to make sense of everything and, you know, being thrust into this role with all this responsibility to carry this thing and. And that also mirroring his responsibility to. To, you know, take care of Alex and to get home to his family and. And, you know, always being out of his element, but also at the same time, always being in his element. You know, he's so in his element being out of his element. You know, he finds comfort in the uncomfortable. So it's this weird paradox that I definitely tapped into and just, you know, lived the entire time myself.
- [15:39]
Jen Landon
Do you think, like, should this role have come into your life five years ago, that you would have been at a place to, like, it would have been a match then? Or do you think. Do you know what I mean?
- [15:53]
Brandon Sklenar
I'm a firm believer in just the divine timing of life and things in general. And, you know, I can pretty clearly track the trajectory of how things have evolved based on where I was at personally and what I was trying to do in my personal life. And, I mean, I don't think that it could have happened at any other time because I wouldn't have been in a position to handle it the way that I was able to and bring that vibe to Spencer that he needed at any other point in my life, if I was in my, you know, mid-20s versus my early 30s, and having gone through what I've gone through personally in the last five years and that shift and. Yeah, there's no way. There's just no way. And I wouldn't have wanted it.
- [16:42]
Jefferson White
It's a fascinating. Yeah, you mentioned yourself, you feel as though working on the show has, has changed you. You've grown from working on the show. By the time we find Spencer, when we first find Spencer, he has lived a long, difficult life. You know, he is a part of this generation of young men who were forced to age prematurely by participating in the horror that was World War I. Right. So he has seen some shit at a young age by the time we first find him. And he is so clearly haunted by it. It's almost like he's after his life. It's like his life is over in some sense, and he's almost hunting own death. It feels to me like doing what he's doing, he's going out there until one of these fucking lions brings him down. The only, you know, he's almost looking for the animal that's big enough to kill him back. And then over the course of these seven episodes, it's an amazing gift just watching the sort of life come back into him, in part because of this relationship with Alex. So will you just talk a little about working with Julia? You know her, she also is coming into this with a tremendous amount of responsibility. And I know from being on set, your greatest gift is each other. Your greatest. Talk about immersive. Having a performance like that right across from you is the greatest gift in the world. Will you talk about your sort of shared process and how you found these characters together?
- [18:14]
Brandon Sklenar
Yeah, you know, that's great that you're perceiving all that from the show, because that was, that was all the intention. So I'm happy about that. That's great. Yeah, you know, we, we. We got really lucky. You know, Taylor didn't do a chemistry read for, for the role of Alex at all. And neither of us have really been in this position before in terms of, of a role that significant in a show that has such a following and sort of this built viewership. Even though it's the first season of, you know, the show itself, there's so much going into it that, you know, you're going to have those eyes. And I think we bonded in a lot of ways, and especially in that way, you know, just, just sort of entering this new arena in our careers. And as Actors together, and. And we were fortunate enough to get along really well and just kind of have an instant rapport.
- [19:14]
Jefferson White
I just. The echoes are so apparent. Right. You're talking about your experience of working on the show. Okay, I'm going to leave my family behind. I'm going to leave my friends behind. I'm going to go into the middle of nowhere and put my trust in these other actors, put my trust in this crew. And that's very much what the character is doing too. Right? He's in the middle of fucking nowhere, far from everything he's ever known or loved. And he finds this person to trust, which is such a fascinating journey to watch. So you get cast on a show starring Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren, and then all of a sudden your character's on the other side of the world. What did you do? So much of the pull for Spencer is getting home, getting home to this life, this responsibility, this duty. How did you approach, in your own mind and imagination, developing a relationship to these characters that you're not working with? You're on the other side of the world. What did you do with those other, you know, your. Your siblings on the show, these other characters who you have a rich relationship to? How did you build that bond with Montana and the Dutton ranch such that we can feel Spencer's pain being separated from it?
- [20:27]
Brandon Sklenar
Yeah, no, I. It's a similar. You know, I did a similar thing with the war. Just. Just, you know, you just build memories, you know, and then just meditating with them, sitting with them until. Until they feel real. So he's such an internal character. So, you know, you gotta do that. Otherwise you just. There's nothing going on.
- [20:52]
Jefferson White
We're gonna take a break really quick, and when we come back, we're gonna keep talking to Brandon because there's a lot more to talk about.
- [20:58]
Brandon Sklenar
Keep talking, baby.
- [21:10]
Jen Landon
I'm gonna. I have a question that I need to ask before I forget, because I will forget. And it is a specific moment. And we were talking a little bit earlier about loading things with memory. When the Julia character makes the decision to come after Spencer, to come after you, and runs to the car and she gets in the car and she. She yells to him, find somebody who loves you. You got your. You were emotional in that moment. I remember noticing that. And it was. It really struck me. And if. I don't know. I don't know if you remember that moment. I don't know if you can talk a little bit about that. It struck me because it felt very much like something that was so deeply tied to the character. But it also felt to me like something that was tied, that existed between, like that great thing that can happen with actors where you're like, I don't know. It felt like it had both. It felt like it had the actors connection and the character's connection in it.
- [22:11]
Brandon Sklenar
It's tough. It's tough to delineate what's a Spencer thing and what's a Brandon thing. It really is, especially when you're in it. Those lines are hard to see. But I do. I can speak from. From Spencer's point of view that, you know, he's had such a. Such a barrier up for such a long time. I mean, years and years, such a strong barrier. And no one's ever crossed that barrier. And I think he's just overwhelmed by this person he doesn't even know who's just so. See something in him to the point where she's just like bare steamrolls through that. That thing, so. And it hits him hard, you know, this. That level of just blind faith. And I want to say love, but I think it is love at that point. Even though it's so early on, she sees something in him and I think it just catches him off guard and it just hits him right in the heart, you know, like, here's this person who doesn't even know me, and he doesn't think very highly of himself. So I think it just. It just, you know, start to just fill his cup a little bit. I think it's. It's the first few drops in that. In that cup, you know, that's been empty for a long time. And I think that's what it is.
- [23:23]
Jen Landon
One of the things that Jeff and I experience on Yellowstone is that the shoots can be a bit grueling because we're often doing what we're. What it appears we're doing, or sometimes it feels like we're shooting a dock. And that's part of what makes the job so great. And I was wondering if there were days on this show that stood out in your mind as like, a particularly adventurous shoot day or a challenging one, because so many of the sequences that you're in are beautiful and epic and riveting. And I'm wondering what was sort of the standouts for you.
- [24:03]
Brandon Sklenar
Yeah, I mean, just all the swimming. Episode six. All that swimming. Man, that was. That was. That was tough. That was definitely the toughest thing I've done on a. On a project, hands down. I mean, one of the toughest things I've done In general, and I'm. I'm. I'm in pretty decent shape. And we swam a lot going into that, and. And it was. It was hard because the water was cold. It was ocean water, and it was pretty chilly outside. And what ends up being in the show, as you guys know, it's, you know, a few minutes in the show, but we did it for four days. So you're. You're, you know, I'm watching it and I'm like, oh, that's it. That's all I put in. Yeah, but it's like, yeah, we were. We were. You know, we were out there, and Guy Furland, our director, I remember we'd come in off the. Off the water, and Julie and I would be. I mean, shaken to the. To the bones and, you know, soaking wet in the wind, and we'd be like, how is it? How's it? God. He's like, oh, it's amazing. You look like you're really struggling out there. I was like, yeah, Guy. Yeah. No, we are. It's. Yeah, that. That. That. That. That was. That was a trip. That was. That was great. I mean, it's. It's, you know, they're tough days, but you love those days because you don't have. There's no acting, you know, and anytime you can cut out the acting, it's great. So I'm grateful for those days. I love those days. But those were. Those were hard days.
- [25:40]
Jen Landon
Brandon, this is not the most highbrow question, but because everybody's obsessed with Indiana Jones and Harrison Ford, and for whatever reason, it's given me some Indiana Jones vibes. Has anyone else said this to you?
- [25:58]
Brandon Sklenar
Yeah, no, I've heard a lot of the Indiana Jones vibe comparison talks. Yeah, it's. It's, you know, it's the same color palette.
- [26:11]
Jen Landon
Hey, it's more than that. Don't dumb it down. It's more than that.
- [26:15]
Jefferson White
You know, Brandon, they tell me the same thing. I've been dealing with this for five seasons now. Everybody looks at me and says, indiana Jones.
- [26:22]
Brandon Sklenar
You know, Indiana Jones. Yeah.
- [26:24]
Jefferson White
You get sick of it. Right? It's kind of. It gets old being compared to one of the most iconic characters and performances in history.
- [26:32]
Brandon Sklenar
Yeah. You know, take it or leave it. It's. It's a burden you gotta bear. No, it's. It's. It's. It's a good. You know, you hope to not get any comparisons, but it's human nature to get comparisons, and it's. It's a hell of a comparison. So I'll Take it. But yeah, it's.
- [26:52]
Jefferson White
It's.
- [26:53]
Brandon Sklenar
I mean, if I were watching, I'd compare myself to it as well, just based on Harrison being in the show. And then, like I said, the color palette is the same. We both carry around. Well, Indy doesn't carry a rope, but he use.
- [27:06]
Jefferson White
He uses a whip, I go the other direction. I was watching Indiana Jones the other day, and I was kind of like, damn, this is a bit of a Spencer Dutton outfit.
- [27:13]
Brandon Sklenar
Yeah, there you go.
- [27:14]
Jefferson White
My man's kind of looking like Spencer Dutton lately. Oh, we got the girl. Spencer Dutton vibes.
- [27:19]
Brandon Sklenar
Spencer Dutton vibes. Yep. Yeah, yeah, no, we haven't seen Spencer's whip yet, but he's. He's got one in that bag.
- [27:27]
Jefferson White
He's very resourceful, bro. Because you were also saying, you know, it's a dangerous journey home, but also, let's be honest, home is pretty dangerous too. The shit that's going down at the, like, it's. I'm very excited. And listen, I don't know what. I don't know what happens after episode seven. I don't know what happens in episode eight. I don't know what happens in. I hope there's a million more episodes to come, but I'm extremely excited for the, you know, to see Spencer Dutton reunited. God, you know, God willing, on the ranch, putting these skills to work, you know, on. On. If he can. If he can kill an elephant, if he can kill a lion, surely he can kill these, like, scruffy sheep herding guys, right?
- [28:11]
Brandon Sklenar
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, I don't think that there's really an obstacle that he can't face. I mean, he is one of the most capable characters there are. I think far more capable than I am. Yeah, no, I'm excited for him to get back to the range.
- [28:38]
Jefferson White
Brandon, thanks so much, man. Honestly, we're just fans.
- [28:41]
Jen Landon
Yeah.
- [28:42]
Jefferson White
It is unsurprising that in real life, you're basically Spencer Dutton. I'm not surprised. And so it is a. It's a great honor to meet you as a fan of your work, as a fan of the show. Thank you for taking the time to talk with us. What a gift.
- [28:55]
Brandon Sklenar
Thanks, man. I appreciate that so much. I'm happy you guys are digging it and I'm excited for y'all to see the rest of it, for sure.
- [29:01]
Jen Landon
Same. It's amazing, and you really are incredible. Thanks, Brandon.
- [29:05]
Brandon Sklenar
Thank you guys so much. Appreciate you guys.
- [29:08]
Jefferson White
The official Yellowstone podcast is a production of 101 Studios and Paramount. This episode was produced by Scott Stone. Brandon Gis. Is the head of audio for 101 Studios. Steve Razis is the executive vice president of the Paramount Global Podcast Group. Special thanks to Megan Marcus, Jeremy Westfall, Ainsley Rosito, Andrew Sarnow, Jason Reed and Whitney Baxter from Paramount. And of course, David Glasser, David Hutkin and Michelle Newman from 101 Studios.