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- [00:09]
Jefferson White
Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. Again, it's Jefferson White here, Jimmy Herdstrom on the Paramount Networks Yellowstone joined as always by Jen Landon. Jen, how you doing? Thanks so much for being here.
- [00:23]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Thanks, Jeff. How you doing?
- [00:25]
Jefferson White
I'm good. I mean this, I gotta say, I'm feeling it's a pretty wild week in the Yellowstone universe here. So not Only in episode 508 of Yellowstone, in season five, episode eight of Yellowstone, we've got danger on the horizon, danger brewing. This seemingly intractable conflict between Jamie Dutton and Beth Dutton boiling over, seeming like it's coming to a head. It seems like it can only end with terrible, perhaps fatal consequences. Not to mention in episode three of 1923, this absolutely shocking shootout, this incredible action sequence. Really wild time, exciting time to be a Yellowstone fan.
- [01:15]
Jimmy Herdstrom
So, Jeff, what you're saying is the theme of today's episode is death. It's going to be really cheery and later on we are going to be talking about the five most significant deaths on Yellowstone and we're going to be doing that with our guest. We have Lynette Rice who's going to be joining us. She is a senior reporter at Deadline. She's a huge fan of the show. And Jeff, she's a New York Times best selling author.
- [01:40]
Jefferson White
Yeah, you've got your picks. I've got my picks. Lynette's got her picks. I'm extremely excited to dig into it, hash it out, get to the bottom of this right after this.
- [02:06]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Okay, we're back. I'm super excited, as morbid as that sounds, to talk about death and all of the most significant and my favorite ones. And we are going to introduce you to our guest now. This is Lynette Rice again, a senior reporter at Deadline, huge fan of the show. Hi, Lynette.
- [02:23]
Lynette Rice
Hello. Hello. It's so great to be here.
- [02:25]
Jimmy Herdstrom
We're super excited to have you.
- [02:27]
Lynette Rice
I do want to ask Jefferson, have you ever asked her to do one episode fully as Teeter? I mean, she's not allowed to sound like Jen. She can only be Teeter.
- [02:36]
Jefferson White
I've been begging her since the beginning. We did one and then the producer called it incomprehensible, which I thought was a little, little rude.
- [02:45]
Jimmy Herdstrom
I was going to say that actually notes came down the line that I was incomprehensible on this show, but not because of my enunciation, just because I tell stories like that Sleep with me podcast guy, which the whole point is they go nowhere.
- [03:01]
Lynette Rice
That would be a classic episode.
- [03:04]
Jefferson White
Lynette, we feel so lucky to have you with us today as an expert, all things, you know, entertainment and television. And I'm excited to see, you know, Jen and I are a little bit biased in our opinions about the show. So I'm excited for a little objective journalism. I'm excited for a third party perspective and a little bit of rationality infused into this.
- [03:28]
Lynette Rice
Sure, I guess I could bring that objectivity. I'll be objective about the way Kevin Costner looks, I promise.
- [03:38]
Jefferson White
So I can't help but notice we've been talking about Yellowstone. We've been talking about the whole Taylor Sheridan Extended Universe. 1883, 1923. You know, in the first episode of 1923, we hear a voiceover from Elsa Dutton who says that violence has always haunted the Dutton family. And we've witnessed that not just in the actions of Yellowstone, but also throughout the course of 1883 and now through the first few episodes of 1923, this family seems to constantly be under attack, to constantly have to resort to violence to protect, you know, their history, their culture, their way of life. And so we've witnessed the terrible ramifications of that haunting over five seasons of Yellowstone now. So I thought it might be fun to rank our top five deaths across Yellowstone, 1883 and 1923. So I'm going to get us started and then I'm going to kick it to you, Lynette. My number five death is the death of Evelyn Dutton, John Dutton's wife, as depicted by Gretchen Maul in flashback in season one of Yellowstone. We're talking about Beth's mom, Casey's mom. The tragic formative loss that seems to have kicked off a lot of the struggle that John Dutton is now weighed down by not having this partner. You know, in 1883, we see a pair. In 1923, we see Helen Mirren and Anne Harrison Ford. This pair, this couple fighting together against outside forces. John Dutton, it seems, is sort of sitting on the throne alone and for want of a partner, seems to be struggling to hold his family together. So for me, number five, that's Evelyn Dutton. What do you think, Lynette?
- [05:30]
Lynette Rice
I totally agree. There's so much drama there left on the table. By the way, by killing her off. I want to see Gretchen Moll's mom with Beth. I mean, I feel like she'd be kind of shrewy. She would be like, oh, it would be the kind of mother daughter relationship we all live for in cinema. So it's too bad we don't have that. So, yeah, I totally agree. My 5. Can you guys Remember that journalist who died in the first season?
- [05:54]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yes.
- [05:54]
Lynette Rice
Why the hell did she have to die? I mean, I guess this sets up the kind of poo head that Jamie is, I think is he was responsible for her death. I think that was the case. It seems so long ago, doesn't it? But I remember her death. It's like, dang, she's gone. Wow. This is this family.
- [06:13]
Jefferson White
That's exactly right. Not only Jamie killed her. So Jamie first sort of spilled his guts to her about all these sordid details about the Dutton family's history and then killed her. Yeah. The character's name is Sarah Wynn and the actress's name is Michaela Conlon.
- [06:29]
Jimmy Herdstrom
She was almost my number five pick. She got edged out slightly, I think probably by my number one pick. But my five, I can't talk about five without talking about four. So my five and four, guys, I'm breaking the rules. My five and four are Lee Dutton and Robert Monica's brother. Because when Lee Dutton died, played by Dave Annabelle, it was like the Sean Bean death in Game of Thrones where I knew that nobody was safe, that anybody at any moment could drop dead because they killed him off. And number four being Robert Monica's brother because, you know, now we have this like Romeo and Juliet kind of thing. So those are my five and four.
- [07:19]
Jefferson White
Yeah, it's very Romeo and Juliet. Right. Because Robert Long kills Lee and then Casey kills Robert Long, which really does, you know, sets off the conflict of all of season one. Season one is so much this kind of three headed conflict between Rainwater, John Dutton and Dan Jenkins. These, these people who later managed to find common ground. But it takes them a while with such a rocky start. That's a great one. So for me, number four really mostly so high on the list because of its how exciting and fun a sequence it was. Roark with the rattlesnake. Yeah, Rip in the river with the rattlesnake. You know, if we're playing Clue here, I found that incredibly satisfying. Rourke was so expertly played as a smug asshole, interloping getting in far over his head and then paying the ultimate price for it. I love that sequence. Very kill Bill.
- [08:18]
Lynette Rice
You forgot to say hot. He was very hot.
- [08:21]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Very sorry.
- [08:21]
Jefferson White
Very hot gentleman.
- [08:22]
Lynette Rice
Very hot.
- [08:23]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Very attractive. Roark was not on my top five, Jeff, but I have a star on my notes. I made my own section called favorite death, which, like, by the way, I have more than one. But that was my favorite death. I remember reading that in the script and being like, yes, my four.
- [08:41]
Lynette Rice
I'm gonna say Casey and Monica's baby. Why did they do that? I mean, it set up such an incredible season for Kelsey. I mean, God, she's just been so depressed and she's obviously done some of her best work on the show and really brought out another dimension of her character which I think was lacking, but that still was kind of a whammy. It's like, wow, what a thing to put on that little kid and then to put her through. And it involved. It was a. Was it a buffalo that it was involved with? It was a buffalo, right? Yeah. Bad news, man.
- [09:18]
Jefferson White
Yeah, the classic beginnings and endings, you know. So season five, episode one, John Dutton is elected governor. It's this moment of perhaps triumph and then the tragic loss of Casey's son, also named John. So for me, number three, and perhaps there's a little bit of Jimmy bias here. It's Fred. It's Fred from season one. The first guy we saw taken to the train station, for those who may not remember Fred, was the massive galoot, expertly played by Luke Peckinpah, who just beats the shit out of Jimmy. And. And then we see this incredibly satisfying immediate revenge as Rip and Lloyd come to Jimmy's aid and really punish him on the spot. It's when we first hear Rip's iconic line, there's no fighting on this ranch. If you wanna fight, you come fight me. I'll fight you all goddamn day. So Fred makes the terrible mistake of beating up a branded man. And we learn a lot from. From this sequence. We learn the consequences of beating up a branded man. We learn the consequences of fighting on the ranch. And also Fred is the first character we see taken to the train station, which will obviously be a recurring theme, no doubt throughout the rest of our lists.
- [10:38]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Jeff, When I was searching the Internet for all the people who had died on Yellowstone because I forgot, I was surprised that an inordinate amount had to do with you. And I always think of Jimmy as this like sweet, peaceful guy, but maybe Jimmy is the villain because there were like seven deaths related to you more than any other character perhaps on the show. Seven, like in really Something Crazy, I was like, God, Jimmy, just if you go around him, you die.
- [11:09]
Jefferson White
Listen, to be fair, I think Casey kills seven people in the first three episodes of Yellowstone.
- [11:14]
Jimmy Herdstrom
They didn't make the list, so.
- [11:16]
Jefferson White
And Jimmy. Listen, Jimmy. Jimmy only participates in a. Jimmy is. Jimmy is perhaps also haunted by violence, haunted by tragedy. He's had a very hard life.
- [11:26]
Lynette Rice
This the mid season finale when we saw you, Jefferson, in your new Settings. To me, you look like a completely different guy, especially in comparison to that first season. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Nothing's changed about you. They changed your look. But you seem so different to me. Like, you know, you've come into your own. You're Mr. True Cowboy. You know, you have the beautiful woman.
- [11:51]
Jefferson White
I mean, Lynette, listen, I was already a fan of your work. We knew that you had a sort of clear eyed, incisive style of journalism and reporting on the ground. But this is really demonstrating your ability to cut through the bullshit and get straight to the facts of the matter. Now, thank you very much for saying that, Lynette. And now I'm going to turn it back on you. Your number three death Yellowstone. Number three death. Who is it?
- [12:18]
Lynette Rice
Okay, I didn't love that. Well, no, I take that back. It was very interesting that we met Jamie's true dad. I didn't love the character because he felt like a nuisance, but I also still don't understand why Jamie killed him, because it's still his real dad, even though he was kind of a Budinski. I was shocked that Garrett, obviously played by Will Patton, met his maker. That was kind of a shocker because he was the only dude left in Jamie's corner. Really?
- [12:53]
Jefferson White
Yeah, it was brutal. It really felt like about as Machiavellian as Beth has ever been. You know, Beth has hated Jamie for most of their lives, certainly their whole adult lives. And forcing him to kill his own father, sort of building this puzzle box, the only way out of which was killing his own father, is perhaps as. As evil as Beth has ever been. Granted, the argument can be made that Garrett Randall himself was an evil man. He orchestrated the attempted hit on Beth Casey. John Dutton. So it's a. It's a complicated thing. And Taylor loves to write these characters that aren't just bad guys or good guys, they have redeeming qualities. Garrett, for how sort of evil he himself was, also showed Jamie kindness in a way perhaps no other character has. And Beth for how much we love her. Sometimes putting Jamie in the position of having to shoot his own father in the head. As you said, the only person that was in his corner. That's about as evil as we've seen Beth be as well. Jen, I'm really excited to dig into it and hear about your number three, but before we do, let's go to a quick break.
- [14:24]
Jimmy Herdstrom
All right, so we're on our number three death. Lynette, I. My number three pick is the same as your number Three, pick. Which of course is Garrett Randall, played by Will Patton, Jamie's dad. Not just because I'm obsessed with Will Patton as an actor, but because I think that having to kill your own father crosses a line of which you do not come back from. Beth, by doing this, I think it's a monster of her own creation. Him having to cross that line has created a person that will cross any line. And I think it's going to be, and obviously is looking like it already the biggest threat to Beth and John.
- [15:15]
Lynette Rice
I think what's most significant about this death and God, it really speaks to Taylor's thinking and obviously how he's thinking ahead. That death gave Beth the first introduction to the train station. She followed Jamie, she took that picture, which ultimately she uses as a tool in the mid season finale as a way to, you know, blackmail him into doing what he does. But there, there's some people who think that how would she not know about the train station until now? But I can see how she would know about the train station. Right?
- [15:49]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah, it makes sense to me.
- [15:50]
Jefferson White
Yeah.
- [15:50]
Jimmy Herdstrom
I mean, Jeff, go ahead.
- [15:52]
Jefferson White
I think it's plausible deniability. You know, I think John has different soldiers for different tasks. He asks Rip to take people to the train station. He asks Lloyd, he asks Casey. I think Beth handles a completely different side of the operation. And I think that if anything, it's smart leadership to keep those halves distinct. And there's also, I remember very specifically there's some stuff between Rip and Beth where Beth asks Rip to tell her where he's been, and he says, don't ask me that. That's like the one thing I can't tell you. That's the one thing I can't share with you. You know, they have. They are both soldiers for John, but in different arenas.
- [16:33]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah, it feels very much to me like both of those men protecting Beth is top priority. And so to expose her to that in any way is dangerous or deadly.
- [16:44]
Lynette Rice
And I don't want to get. I don't want to get too much in the weeds here, by the way, but train station, is that a cowboy state saying? Have you guys heard that before? I mean, why take to the train station? Why not like take to the morgue, take to the fridge. Do you know if, like where he came up with train station of all places? Is that a saying, Jeff?
- [17:03]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Do you. I don't think it's.
- [17:05]
Jefferson White
I think it's an invention. I think it's an invention of the lore of this world, so, of Taylor's world here And I think what's fun about it, too, is it also has a kind of intergenerational linguistic flair.
- [17:18]
Lynette Rice
It's clever. It's very clever.
- [17:19]
Jefferson White
Yeah. Because we don't know when people started doing this. We don't know when the first time somebody went to the train station was.
- [17:25]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah. Like, you can also, like, you can say the train station, like, while you're, you know, take them to the train station while you're, like, sitting in a coffee shop, you know, maybe getting your nails done, but you can't be like, take them to the morgue, you know, in the middle of a pedicure.
- [17:39]
Lynette Rice
Yeah, it's. It's code.
- [17:41]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yes.
- [17:41]
Lynette Rice
Total code.
- [17:42]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah.
- [17:42]
Jefferson White
And it leads to this nice open secret, because Beth probably would have heard somebody say, oh, take him to the train station, and not necessarily understood what that meant. There's this very chilling sequence in season one, I think, when Walker is in the back of Rip's truck, and Casey says to Walker, hey, wait a second, where are you guys going? And Walker says, oh, he's going to take me to the train station. Because he doesn't know what that implies. You know, it leads to. It's. It's a sort of almost Mafia, like, secret vocabulary for those in the know.
- [18:13]
Jimmy Herdstrom
We're gonna go to the beach.
- [18:13]
Jefferson White
It's very dramatically satisfying.
- [18:16]
Jimmy Herdstrom
We're just going to the beach, kid. That intergenerational thing, Jeff, like I thought it was. I was thinking about how, you know, at a certain time when you board the train to go somewhere else, like, you're not coming back because it's an incredibly long, arduous journey or whatever. But I wonder if Taylor is gonna pay that off in a literal way. I don't think he is, but I wonder if there will be a very literal moment in which we see a body earlier kind of go to the train station in a different way. It actually is put on a train. I don't imagine that happening.
- [18:50]
Jefferson White
Yeah.
- [18:51]
Lynette Rice
Oh, well. Didn't we get the origin of the train station when we saw the flash? Was that. So the kid that young Rip beat up, do you think that was the first body to the train station, or was the train station already established before that?
- [19:08]
Jefferson White
It seems to me to be implied that it was already established before that. And that Rowdy being taken. Rowdy's body being taken to the train station was another entry. So it seems like, you know, young Lloyd, who takes that body to the train station was already familiar with that practice. I'm excited to see if 1923 is the one that like, introduces that concept because now that we've got this range war erupting in 1923, maybe for the first time, there's some, you know, conflict about the cowboy way of life versus this modern, you know, proper, appropriate avenue of justice. I'm excited to see if 1923 gives us our first trip to the train station.
- [19:49]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Jeff, do you want to. Do you want to give us your number two?
- [19:52]
Jefferson White
Well, my number two has got a bit of a Jimmy bias to it as well. So Jimmy's old life kind of comes back to haunt him, particularly in seasons, season two mostly, you know, so. So season two is a violent season for Jimmy. He's confronted by some of his old associates who end up beating his grandfather to death. So his. His last living relative is his grandfather, Dirk Herdstrom, who in the pilot episode of Yellowstone asks John Dutton, hey, will you take my good for nothing grandson onto the ranch? Will you set him straight? So for Jimmy, I think the death of Dirk Hrom, his grandfather, represents the last sort of tether to his old life and his old identity and in some ways represents this kind of rebirth. You know, Rip says to Jimmy, I'm going to show you how to take care of problems so they don't become bigger problems. It feels like those. And then, you know, the subsequent Jimmy and Rip and the gang exploding, the meth house trailer, killing Jimmy's old associates. There's a series of very violent deaths that seem to me formative for this new Jimmy. The Jimmy that we know now, you know, he has this kind of rebirth away from his old associates and his old way of life. So for me, number two, it's Dirk Hirdstrom and it's Jimmy's old associates, the drug dealers. What do you think, Lynette?
- [21:30]
Lynette Rice
My number two is going to be Jen's. I think it was her four or five. It's Dave Annabelle. I think her comparison to Sean Bean in Game of Thrones was apt because Sean Bean's character at the time, he was the moral center of Game of Thrones and he went away. And Lee Dutton represented all that is good about the rancher's life. There was nothing bad about this kid. He was just a good, hard worker and he loved his family and he loved his land and they killed him. So that was sad to see. And I also really like Dave Annabelle. I was a huge brothers and sisters fan. I loved him on that show. So it was sad to say goodbye.
- [22:08]
Jefferson White
You know, I can't help Lynette, but draw some parallels between the death of Lee Dutton and the death of John Dutton Sr. In 1923 as a result of this big shootout. So, you know, you mentioned Dave, Annabelle, the performance that was robbed from us by the death of Lee Dutton. I feel the same way about James Badge Dale, totally, who plays John Dutton Senior, because James is an incredible actor, one of his generation's best character actors. And I was really excited to see, you know, many more episodes and a similar situation. We're talking about the sort of oldest son, the heir apparent, the steadfast, you know, steadfast kind of moral center, perhaps the inheritor of their respective father's work ethic and sort of simple kind of sense of justice. So it really. It does feel like both of the. The deaths of both those characters, Lee Dutton in Yellowstone and John Dutton Sr. In 1923, feel like they're very formative. And I'm really curious to see the ramifications of that death in 1923, you know, so the death of John Dutton Sr. Also brings to mind the sort of ominous prophecy that we hear at the beginning of 1923. Jen, will you dig into that a little bit? Will you break that down?
- [23:37]
Jimmy Herdstrom
I mean, I don't know if I'm gonna break it down, but I can tell you the fear that it has sparked in me, which is that I believe that what Elsa says is that she says only one of them, of her two brothers, only one of them will see their children grow to be adults themselves, right? So here we have John Dutton Sr. Right? He is killed. We have Jack Dutton, his son, right, Who I consider to be grown. So that leads me to believe that Spencer Dutton is not safe because she says only one of them will live to see. See theirs grown, their own children grow. Which leads me to believe that while Spencer is alive now and while Spencer may have children, there's a good chance if the prophecy holds or the storytelling is, you know, the. It tracks across that he will die before his own child becomes an adult. Right. You know what I mean?
- [24:36]
Jefferson White
Wow, that's a grim.
- [24:37]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Isn't that what she says?
- [24:39]
Jefferson White
Does she say only one of them will live to see their own?
- [24:42]
Jimmy Herdstrom
She says she's. Only one of them will live to see there's grown or something like that. Sorry, that's my really bad.
- [24:49]
Jefferson White
I wonder. And you gotta wonder where we leave Spencer. We've seen Spencer sort of fight his way through hell in world War. Not only in World War I, but now he's sort of being haunted by violence across all of Africa, it seems sort of chasing his own death. You Know, he's either being haunted by violence or he's haunting violence because it really seems like he's pursuing death in some way.
- [25:16]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah. And there's that great line that. That Kara says. Helen Mirren's character. Character. I just always want to be like Helen. I just want to connect to Helen Mirren as much as I can. That she says at the end in a letter. She says an add to a. To a letter to Spencer. She. She says something along the lines of, I don't know what war it is you're fighting inside or, you know, but you need to. You need to put that aside and come back home and fight this one.
- [25:42]
Lynette Rice
And, well, that was his war. His war days. Right. He's still carrying the heaviness of the war.
- [25:47]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yes. There is a PTSD storyline, I think.
- [25:50]
Lynette Rice
In that, for sure. I think that was some ballsy writing by Taylor, because when I first heard Elsa say that, I was a bit confused, and I had to stop and look at every detail available about what this new show was setting up and who's related to who. I got confused at first, but now it's all very clear. He was obviously talking about James Badge Dale's death. I don't want to believe that Spencer dies because I really like that character, and I want to see where that marriage goes.
- [26:20]
Jimmy Herdstrom
He could die very late. He could.
- [26:23]
Lynette Rice
He could die.
- [26:24]
Jimmy Herdstrom
It takes, like, let's say it takes 20 years for a kid to grow up. Let's. Or 18.
- [26:28]
Lynette Rice
We got to carry on the debt and seed somehow. So obviously, somebody has to live.
- [26:33]
Jimmy Herdstrom
No, they don't. Because you could have a kid, Right? You can have a kid. They just. I think that. I think it was that you just don't see him grow up. So, you know, up till 18, you know, we can. Wherever that limit hits.
- [26:47]
Jefferson White
Well, this is so exciting. And it's what you guys described earlier is this feeling that nobody's safe. I think that's an atmosphere that Taylor has really expertly crafted on 1920, on 1980, on 1883. And on 1923, this feeling that these beloved characters are never safe. So going into every gunfight, I find myself, you know, breathless, trying to track what's happening. And that when. When our man shows up in the car with the Tommy gun, that was such a sort of frightening image, you know, the image of that modernity. Just like all these guys, it feels like it's, you know, it's decades. It's like the future. Showing up in the middle of Montana with a Tommy gun to say, you Know, sit down.
- [27:36]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah. And there's that moment earlier in the episode which, like, was very satisfying. And a light version of that when the family is walking down the street and they talk about the washing machine, you know, that there's. And they talk about those things coming in. And I don't know when he. When he got out of that car with, you know, I don't know enough about guns, but I'm gonna call that like an automatic weapon. Basically. Suddenly the car and that weapon. It felt so deeply unfair. The fight no longer felt like a fight. And I couldn't help but think about, you know, how Native American tribes felt when settlers showed up with guns. When, you know, when they. When they had bows and arrows.
- [28:14]
Jefferson White
Yeah. It seems to represent intergenerationally. The Duttons are often outmatched by technology by these sort of like legal maneuvers. It feels like so much of what Market equities is doing is trying to make the parameters of their fight unfair. They're trying to do whatever they can to sort of bring, you know, the coercive American legal system to bear against the Duttons. They're sort of trying to. They can't win the fight by the Duttons rules. So they're trying to shift the parameters of the fight. And it really feels like that's what Bronner does in that moment is he says, okay, we can't fight your way. I'm gonna fight my way. I'm gonna, you know, hit you with a car and shoot you 40 times with a machine gun.
- [29:00]
Lynette Rice
I thought it was such a bitchin prop. It was very much like an Indiana Jones moment. Remember that from the first movie where he pulls out the gun when, you know, they're wielding the knives with them and he just pulls out like, shut up. I got giddy when I saw the prop. It was now I don't know where a sheep herder is gonna get a Tommy gun, but whatever. Details, details. I thought it was. It was pretty great.
- [29:21]
Jimmy Herdstrom
The choreography in that whole fight sequence, I just have to say, was so breathtaking. Moment to moment. I have this reaction when I watch things that are like violence that is beautifully choreographed. I like start crying even though I don't feel sad. And that happened during this fight sequence, even down to like the detail of the entire family being on one side of that fallen log and then going to the other side and just like holding on for this narrow margin of potential safety.
- [29:51]
Jefferson White
Jen, it sounds like you've got a lot of insight about Lynette's number two. I've yet to hear a number two from you. So let's go to a break really quick, and then when we come back, you're on the hook.
- [30:20]
Lynette Rice
Okay, Jen, I'm dying to hear. I get it. Dying to hear what your number two is.
- [30:26]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Okay, listen, my number two, while not technically a death, it. You know, or in the literal sense that we've been, you know, addressing things, it feels to me like a death of a dream, A death of a possibility, A death. And I think that, you know, this feels like a death for a lot of women, which is Beth's hysterectomy, and suddenly she cannot have. She cannot have children. And people I know who have been told they cannot have kids, it feels very much like a death. So that is my number two, Because I cannot think about who Beth is without that loss sort of interwoven into the animal that she is. So that's my number two.
- [31:21]
Lynette Rice
Cheery, excellent selection. And I remember. I mean, the reveal on that was so huge. And I immediately went to the Internet to look up the history of these clinics on the reservation. And that whole story is steeped in reality, which was even more depressing. That one really hung on to me.
- [31:40]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Okay, are we at number one? Are we going to talk about number one deaths?
- [31:44]
Lynette Rice
I'm ready.
- [31:45]
Jimmy Herdstrom
I'll go, because mine's not. I'll just lead here. We'll go around this way again. Okay. So my number one death, though, I do kind of want to change it. My number one death is Evelyn dutton, Because I think the ultimate wound is the mother wound.
- [31:58]
Jefferson White
It's a really good one, Jen. I mean, the Evelyn stuff is really. I don't think it can be overstated how much the. You know, it feels like this generation of duttons, Their grip on this ranch is more precarious than it's ever been. We see it sort of slipping out of their fingers from the very beginning. The ranch is in crisis, and. And John dutton bemoans over and over again, God, if my wife could see how poorly I've done Holding our family together. If my wife could see the mess I've made of things. It really feels like he's missing this anchor. He feels in some ways like a sort of cursed or haunted kind of empty man from the very beginning of the show. And it really feels like, you know, the loss of evelyn Also heavily informs the relationship between Beth and john, which is one of the critical relationships of the show. Beth's loyalty to john, so much of what she does, this kind of destructive spree that she's on Is in John's name in part, because I think. I think you. Like you said, she doesn't have this mother. She feels as though she has so much responsibility to her father, especially because she feels responsible for Evelyn's death. You know, we saw in that tragic flashback, Beth feels responsible for Evelyn's death, and she will go to the ends of the earth and sort of, you know, spite it all, cut it all down, to try to redeem, you know, what she feels she's responsible for. It's really. It's very tragic.
- [33:33]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah. As you were talking, I was just thinking about young Rip all of a sudden, and of course, and, you know, young Beth and young Jamie and how there's a lot of these characters as children feel deeply responsible for, you know, for deaths of individuals or for, you know, Jamie, the hysterectomy of Beth, that it's just a tremendous amount of shame to carry into adulthood.
- [34:00]
Jefferson White
Yeah, they grew up way too fast.
- [34:01]
Lynette Rice
All right, I'm gonna. My number one is all the deaths at the end of 1883.
- [34:09]
Jefferson White
Yeah, I have to agree. I mean, I think my number one is similarly. Yeah. All these Duttons that have come before, you know, by the time we get to the action of Yellowstone, it feels like Kevin Costner, John Dutton, is dragging behind the terrible weight of his ancestors. It feels like he's got all of these skeletons almost shackled to him, that he's. He's trying so hard to drag them along with him into the future. And I can't help but feel like it's futile. You know, I can't help but feel like it's a doomed enterprise.
- [34:44]
Lynette Rice
This list, this is what makes TV so great. I mean, this is why showrunners should never listen to fans, because fans will always want to keep everybody alive. But there's no conflict there. There's no drama. And if you think back at the best television of your life, it's the one you think about, those great deaths. One of my all time favorites is when Josh Charles was killed off on the Good Wife. I still remember it. I still watch it today, and it kills me. And so, I mean, as sad as it is to say goodbye to these characters, you need this to keep the show fresh and interesting. And getting us to talk about this and do lists like these, it's great stuff.
- [35:20]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah. Hey, Jeff, since I know that you love death so much and you were sad to be limited to five significant ones, can we just get into some of your top five faves? Because they're.
- [35:35]
Jefferson White
Yeah, actually, I made a list of 35. So we're gonna start at number 35. Here we go. No, I'm just kidding. I think of myself as a bit of a Yellowstone historian, so I just want to run down some of the exciting deaths, you know, exciting, defining deaths from the history of the show. So Dan Jenkins. Oh, yeah, More went out for Dan Jenkins. Dan Jenkins. That was a bit, for me, of a moment of, oh, how do we go back from this? Because he had been such a sort of formative, important character in the first two seasons of the show, it felt like he finally saw the light towards the end of his life. Yeah, you know, he finally understood that, you know, Kevin Costner, John Dutton was maybe right. You know, he. He. He maybe sided with John Dutton against the Beck brothers right at the end of his life, but that also cost him his life. Speaking of the Beck brothers. Oh, man. Absolute scumbags. Very sad. As far as, you know, satisfying deaths go, I would say the. The deaths of the Beck brothers really, really got me going. Really got me buzzing.
- [36:37]
Lynette Rice
Well, actually, if you want to get into 1883, and I didn't realize this until recently when I was reminded of it, you know, Don Oliveri, who plays the vixen, who's, like, pulling in Jamie right now. She played Claire Dutton. Remember that whole sequence where her daughters died, and she decides it's not worth living, and she ends up staying there by his grave.
- [36:58]
Jefferson White
That was brutal.
- [36:59]
Lynette Rice
That was freaking brutal.
- [37:00]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Totally.
- [37:01]
Lynette Rice
So, yeah, that's. That's up there. You can pour one out for her too.
- [37:05]
Jefferson White
Yeah. The past was bad. Overwhelmingly. As I'm watching 1883 and 1923, I'm reminded that the past. Pretty rough time to be alive.
- [37:14]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah. Not so good, guys.
- [37:15]
Jefferson White
As we've been exploring throughout this entire episode, all things must end. All palaces are temporary palaces. This too shall pass. And this unfortunately brings us to the conclusion of this episode. So I'm so, so grateful for you out there listening to us, Lynette. I'm so grateful that you joined us. Thank you for bringing your perspective to all of this. What a joy.
- [37:41]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Yeah. Thank you.
- [37:43]
Lynette Rice
Thank you so much. And I really hope that you end this episode with Jen as teeter saying, you know, sending Jimmy to the train station. Do you think you could do that? Do a teeter? Like, a teeter? I ain't gonna send off.
- [37:56]
Jimmy Herdstrom
I ain't gonna send Jimmy to the fucking train station. Thy shit.
- [38:01]
Lynette Rice
There it is.
- [38:03]
Jefferson White
Lynette. I've been begging her to do that for months. I've been begging her to do the voice for months and all you had to do was ask.
- [38:11]
Jimmy Herdstrom
I blacked out. What happened?
- [38:17]
Jefferson White
Thank you so, so much for joining us. We'll see you real soon.
- [38:20]
Jimmy Herdstrom
Bye.
- [38:21]
Jefferson White
Don't forget to subscribe to the Official Yellowstone Podcast and you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Official Yellowstone Podcast is a production of 101 Studios and Paramount. This episode was produced by Scott Stone. Brandon Gis is the head of audio for 101 Studios. Steve raises is the Executive Vice President of the Paramount Global Podcast Group. Special thanks to Megan Marcus, Jeremy Westfall, Ainsley Rosito, Andrew Sarnow, Jason Reed, and Whitney Baxter from Paramount. And of course, David Glasser, David Hucken, and Michelle Newman from 101 Studios.