Podcast Summary: The Opinions – "America's Next Story: Sarah Isgur"

Host: David Leonhardt
Guest: Sarah Isgur (Editor, The Dispatch)
Date: November 17, 2025
Podcast by: The New York Times Opinion

Overview of the Episode

This episode features a deep-dive conversation between David Leonhardt and Sarah Isgur, exploring the future of American conservatism beyond Trumpism. The discussion weaves Sarah’s personal political journey with analysis of Trump-era politics, reflections on American institutions, and Sarah’s vision for restoring a healthier constitutional order. Isgur urges Americans to disengage from performative national politics and focus on local civic life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Sarah Isgur’s Political Journey

• Early Life and Political Identity

  • Grew up in conservative Texas, considered a "raging liberal" as a child (02:47).
  • Felt like an outsider across political environments (Texas vs. Northwestern University).
  • "I was the kid who complained about prayer before the orchestra concerts, or a student who didn’t want to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance." – Sarah Isgur (02:47)

• Transition to Republican Identity

  • Experienced being labeled "right wing lunatic" at Northwestern.
  • Drawn to figures like Mitt Romney who were also outside typical GOP mold.
  • Worked on both Romney campaigns and Carly Fiorina’s 2016 primary campaign (03:45–04:28).

Inside the Trump Era

• Why Trump Resonated with Voters

  • Micro: Trump dominated "earned media" due to reality TV fame and news coverage (05:33).
  • Macro: Captured post-2008 crisis anger, promising authenticity and opposition to elites.
  • "He wasn’t willing to play their games… That was incredibly attractive to people." – Sarah Isgur (06:06)

• Working in the Trump Administration

  • Joined Justice Department under Sessions, hopeful that “the presidency changes people.”
  • Witnessed, on her first day, Sessions' recusal from the Russia investigation – one of the administration's most critical moments (08:26–08:45).
  • Quips about being on “the enemies list” in the Trump orbit (08:59–09:09).

Critique of Trump’s Legacy

• Overreach of Presidential Power

  • Trump intensified a trend of presidents sidestepping Congress via executive actions.
  • "Trump, in that sense, isn't new, except he's just turned the volume up to 11, like he does with everything." – Sarah Isgur (10:08)
  • Isgur argues this shift is not unique to Trump: Obama and Biden also expanded executive power, but Trump was a difference in "degree," possibly rising to a "difference in kind" (10:18).

• Not a True Conservative

  • "We no longer have a conservative party in the United States. We have two parties that just differ in how they want to use the levers of government." – Sarah Isgur (10:41)
  • Feels politically homeless as a "don't tell me what to do girl."

• Impact on American Democracy

  • Contends that even revered presidents (Lincoln, Jackson, FDR) challenged constitutional norms (11:48).
  • Suggests, historically, America recovers from excesses of strong presidents.
  • "There's very little that Trump is doing...that hasn't existed in some form or another from some previous president where we don't look back on that and say that it was so altering, so ending, that we couldn't repair it." – Sarah Isgur (17:15)

• The "Alphabet Soup" Government

  • Critiques the rise of unaccountable, independent agencies.
  • Government is less responsive due to disconnected power structures and weak party discipline (13:21–14:35).

• The Dangers of Partisan Justice

  • Expresses deep concern over using the DOJ for personal vendettas.
  • Distinguishes legitimate law enforcement priorities from targeted retribution (15:27).

Vision for a Post-Trump Conservatism

• Return to Constitutional Roots

  • Calls for power to be placed in Congress and local institutions.
  • Advocates for a radical strengthening of the separation of powers, pushing back against the trend of presidential overreach.
  • "My new political party, my new conservative political party would be something like the scariest words in the English language are ‘I’m the president, I’m here to run the country.’" – Sarah Isgur (20:39)

• Skepticism of National Solutions

  • Suggests government can’t solve every major issue, especially in a globalized economy (e.g., job losses due to AI).
  • Emphasizes policy stability via legislative compromise instead of the “pendulum” of executive orders (22:35).

• Local Engagement and Reform

  • Americans should engage at the most local levels, building authentic community rather than treating politics as a “religion” (29:15).
  • "Stop reading political news. Put your phone down, go talk to your neighbors, check out what they’re doing. Don’t talk about politics. Just, like, check on their health." – Sarah Isgur (29:14)

Barriers and Prospects for Change

• The Weakness of Parties and Congress

  • Warns that dysfunctional parties and a weak Congress enable celebrity presidencies.
  • "Donald Trump, really, the better way of thinking about it is that he defeated the Republican Party before he defeated the Democratic Party in 2016." – Sarah Isgur (26:45)

• Mix of Optimism & Pessimism

  • Expresses doubt that her process-focused vision will catch fire in the current climate, but notes big change is possible after crisis.
  • "Maybe it’s the quote, America always does the right thing after they’ve tried everything else." – Sarah Isgur (26:12)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Presidential Overreach:
  • "We spend so much time in law school on the difference in degree versus difference in kind. You’re saying it’s such a difference in degree, it has become a difference in kind? I don’t know—it’s somewhere in there." – Sarah Isgur (10:18)
• On Her Political Identity:
  • "I’m a don’t tell me what to do girl, and I don’t have a political party anymore." – Sarah Isgur (10:41)
• On Local Engagement:
  • "Stop reading political news. Put your phone down, go talk to your neighbors." – Sarah Isgur (29:14)
• On the Structural Solution:
  • "Process, we need better process, hasn’t really rallied a lot of people so far." – Sarah Isgur (25:12)
• On America’s Endurance:
  • "I am heartened by the fact that America survived the Buchanan presidency. That’s like the worst presidency, I think, in America, which is all to say, we’ve had bad presidents..." – Sarah Isgur (17:15)

Notable Timestamps

• [02:47] – Sarah’s childhood and early political beliefs
• [05:33] – Why Trump became popular
• [08:26] – First day in the Trump-era Justice Department
• [10:08–10:41] – Trump’s use of executive power and Isgur’s critique
• [11:48–13:21] – Comparing Trump to other historically strong presidents and the growth of unaccountable agencies
• [15:27] – The danger of politicized justice
• [17:15] – America’s resilience and historical recovery
• [20:39] – Isgur’s new conservative vision: separation of powers, skepticism of presidential power
• [22:35] – The limitations of both populist and libertarian systems
• [26:12] – Process and the potential for crisis-driven change
• [29:14] – Concrete advice for listeners on civic engagement

Actionable Takeaways & Advice

1. Get Involved Locally:
   Build authentic connections in your closest communities—know your neighbors, get involved in your kids' school, go beyond politics (29:14).

2. Vote in Primaries:
   Engage meaningfully by registering for the party primary that matters in your area; don’t treat party registration like a permanent label (30:11).

3. Seek Institutional Reform:
   Push for a return to meaningful separation of powers; hold Congress (not the president or courts) accountable for policymaking (20:39).

Tone & Style

• The conversation balances serious institutional analysis with self-aware wit.
• Isgur is direct, skeptical, but maintains a pragmatic optimism about American resilience.
• Leonhardt challenges thoughtfully, with an eye on the broader historic and political stakes.

For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode provides a nuanced conservative perspective highly critical of Trump-era conservatism, with a call to build more responsive, accountable institutions—starting at the community level.