The Opinions – America’s Next Story: Sen. Bernie Sanders

Podcast: The Opinions (The New York Times Opinion)
Host: David Leonhardt
Guest: Senator Bernie Sanders
Date: November 3, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, host David Leonhardt talks with Senator Bernie Sanders about American political realignment, the failures and future of the Democratic Party, and the roots of both Trumpism and progressive responses. Sanders argues forcefully that the Democratic Party lost touch with its working-class base in pursuit of corporate money, and he lays out his vision of progressive patriotism as a viable counter to right-wing nationalism. The conversation is candid, occasionally combative, and full of illustrative anecdotes from Sanders’ long career.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Democrats Lost the Working Class

• Shift away from FDR-era values: Sanders highlights how the Democratic Party drifted from its legacy of working-class advocacy in the 1970s, pursuing wealthy donors and corporate interests instead.
  • Quote:

    “From the 70s on...the attraction of big money, the party began to pay more attention to the needs of the corporate world...That has been a total disaster, not only politically, but for our country as a whole.”
    (Bernie Sanders, 04:07)

• Neglect of Union Concerns: Sanders emphasizes that ordinary workers and unions never supported free-trade agreements, despite establishment support.
  • “No worker in America thought [free trade with China] was a good idea. The corporate world thought it was a good idea.”
    (Sanders, 05:11)

2. Political Realignment & Missed Opportunities

• Populist critique of Democrats: Sanders accuses party leadership of focusing on “nibbling around the edges” rather than addressing systemic economic inequality.
  • Quote:

    “Democrats, system is okay, let's nibble around the edges. Democrats lost the election, all right? They abdicated. They came up with no alternative, because...they even today don't acknowledge the economic crises facing the working class.”
    (Sanders, 06:18)

• Current state of support for progressive proposals: Only 15 of 47 Democratic Senators support Sanders’ Medicare for All.
  • “You know how many Democrats in the Senate I have on board? 15 out of a caucus of 47.”
    (Sanders, 07:45)

3. Building a True Working Class Politics

• Inclusivity: Sanders sees a need for the Democratic Party to “open the doors” to young people, people of color, and working-class candidates—even those with past flaws.
  • Quote:

    “Let working-class people in with all their flaws...open the door to young people. Open the door to people of color.”
    (Sanders, 09:27)

• Party structure critique: Sanders asserts that the Democratic Party is “billionaire funded, consultant driven...way out of touch with where the working class is.”
  • “Democratic Party has abdicated. Given it up. They're not fighting for the working class.”
    (Sanders, 10:01)

4. Social Issues, Rural America & Tolerance

• Tolerance for disagreement: Sanders maintains that authentic working-class politics mean accepting differences—especially on divisive social issues.
  • Quote:

    “You gotta have a tolerance. I believe again, women have a right to control their own body. There are people who disagree with me. What am I supposed to do? Throw them out? …So what? You don't agree with me on every issue, what am I going to do?...We're going to work together and come up with the best plan that we can.”
    (Sanders, 11:52–13:17)

• Authenticity in politics: Sanders describes himself as coming from humble roots, reminding listeners:
  • “I grew up in a three and a half room rent-controlled apartment...It is not those people. Those are my people.”
    (Sanders, 11:13)

5. Immigration, Borders, and Populism

• Against “open borders” strawman: Sanders reaffirms support for comprehensive immigration reform and a path to citizenship, while asserting the need for meaningful borders.
  • Quote:

    “So long as we have nation states...you have borders. And if you don't have any borders, in a sense you don't have a nation state...We need to have an immigration policy, but you also need to have strong borders, period.”
    (Sanders, 15:53)

• Warning against scapegoating: Sanders argues Trump’s demonization of immigrants is classic demagoguery.
  • “You take a powerless minority...and you blame all the problems of the world on those people. That's what Trump is doing with the undocumented.”
    (Sanders, 15:10)

6. Oligarchy, Authoritarianism and Trump

• Diagnosing the system: Sanders chooses to focus on oligarchy, not just authoritarianism, as the deeper threat enabling figures like Trump.
  • Quote:

    “You got an economy dominated by the very wealthy, a rigged economy. You have a political system dominated by billionaires...What do you call that country? Is it fair to call it an oligarchy?”
    (Sanders, 18:53–20:45)

• Oligarchy fosters authoritarianism:
  • “They like oligarchy. They like authoritarianism because people like Putin gives the oligarchs...opportunity to do anything they want. That's what Trump is doing right here in this country.”
    (Sanders, 21:35–23:01)

7. Lessons for Democrats & Cross-Regional Messaging

• National vs. regional issues: Sanders insists issues of affordability and working-class struggle are universal.
  • “The overwhelming majority of Americans are working class people...Childcare crisis in almost every state...Don't use the word red state or blue state.”
    (Sanders, 23:41)
• Nuance on policing: Sanders describes his own success working with police unions and emphasizes the job’s challenges while making clear the need for reform.
  • Quote:

    “Treat [police] with the respect that they do. Doing a very, very difficult job. Can we tolerate racism within police departments? Not at all...But police play a very important role, and they should be respected.”
    (Sanders, 25:20–26:21)

8. The “Abundance Movement” and Bureaucracy

• Sympathy for streamlining, skepticism of ideology: Sanders agrees bureaucracy is a problem—he’s fought it as mayor and senator—but says fighting it isn't a governing philosophy.
  • Quote:

    “Breaking through bureaucracy and creating efficiencies, that's good government. ...Any manager, you're a corporate manager, you're a mayor, you're a governor. Gotta get things done.”
    (Sanders, 26:53–28:22)

9. Progressive Patriotism vs. Nationalism

• Defining progressive patriotism: Sanders invokes history, Lincoln, and his own family’s American experience to define a national vision rooted in economic justice and defending democracy.
  • Quote:

    “So you want a nationalism. You want a patriotic nationalism. That's what it is. People fought and died...to defend democracy. And we need a government and an economy that works for all of us, not just a handful of wealthy campaign donors. That's your nationalism. We love this country.”
    (Sanders, 31:19)

  • “This is a great country, has given so much to so many people, and we're going to do everything that we can to make sure that Trump does not divide us up, does not move us into an authoritarian society.”
    (Sanders, 32:54)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Democratic drift:

  “The leadership of the party...when I ran in 2016...what I said is open the bloody doors.”
  (Sanders, 09:16)

• Immigration demagoguery:

  “That's what Trump is doing with the undocumented. My view is very, very different.”
  (Sanders, 15:10)

• Oligarchs and power:

  “When Peter Thiel, who is a billionaire...refers to his opponents...as the Antichrist...They like oligarchy, they like authoritarianism.”
  (Sanders, 21:35)

• Progressive patriotism:

  “You want a nationalism. You want a patriotic nationalism. That's what it is...We need a government and economy that works for all of us.”
  (Sanders, 31:19)

Important Timestamps

• 03:12: Leonhardt probes Democratic Party’s shift toward corporate interests
• 04:07: Sanders details the party’s “disastrous” turn away from working-class priorities
• 06:18: Sanders critiques Democrats’ incrementalism vs. Trump’s “smashing the system”
• 09:27: Sanders calls for the Democratic Party to “open the bloody doors” to new participants
• 11:52: Sanders discusses tolerance within a real working-class coalition
• 13:42: Sanders argues “open borders” is a right-wing, not progressive, idea
• 15:10: Sanders on demagogues scapegoating minorities
• 18:53: Discussion of oligarchy as the root cause of Trumpism
• 21:35: On oligarchs’ preference for authoritarian rule—and Trump’s role
• 23:41: Working-class struggles are the same in every state
• 25:20: Sanders’ nuanced perspective on policing and reform
• 26:53: His take on the “abundance movement” and bureaucracy
• 31:19: Sanders articulates vision for progressive patriotism

Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is lively and candid, mixing humor (“Oh, you’re sounding like a New York Times reporter”—Sanders, 20:49) with policy seriousness and Sanders’ trademark urgency. Leonhardt presses Sanders on pragmatic political strategy, often reflecting the skepticism of Democratic elites. Sanders is both fiery and reflective, blending personal anecdotes, direct challenges, and optimism about the transformative potential of grassroots politics.

For listeners and readers alike, this episode offers an insightful and substantial look at the crossroads of American politics, the hurdles for Democrats, and the enduring resonance of Bernie Sanders’ progressive vision for the country.