Summary of "Bret Stephens on What Trump Gets Right, Wrong and Really, Really Wrong"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Opinions
• Host/Author: The New York Times Opinion
• Episode: Bret Stephens on What Trump Gets Right, Wrong and Really, Really Wrong
• Release Date: April 17, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Opinions, Patrick Healey, deputy editor of New York Times Opinion, engages in a deep and nuanced conversation with Bret Stephens, a conservative columnist known for his critical stance on former President Donald Trump. The discussion delves into the complexities of Trump's administration, highlighting both its achievements and significant missteps, while exploring the broader implications for the American political landscape.

1. Bret Stephens’ Overall Critique of Trump’s Administration

Bret Stephens begins by expressing his profound disappointment with Trump's leadership, describing the administration's actions as "reckless, stupid, awful, un-American, hateful, and bad" (02:32). He acknowledges some achievements but emphasizes that the negative aspects overwhelmingly overshadow any positives.

Bret Stephens ([02:39]): "The memory of things that this administration has done of which I approve is drowning in the number of things that are, in my view, reckless, stupid, awful, un-American, hateful, and bad."

2. Specific Policy Areas:

a. Southern Border Management

Stephens concedes that Trump effectively secured the southern border, which he considers a "colossal folly of the Biden administration" for not addressing earlier.

Bret Stephens ([03:03]): "It was a colossal folly of the Biden administration not to get a better grip on that."

b. DEI Policies

He expresses support for Trump's efforts to dismantle Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives, viewing them as having "gotten out of hand."

Bret Stephens ([03:16]): "I thought DEI had gotten out of hand and I was happy to see the administration's orders about it."

c. Support for Israel

Stephens briefly touches upon Trump's support for Israel, though the conversation primarily focuses on other areas.

3. Trump’s Conduct and Leadership Style

a. Humiliation of Allies: Zelenskyy’s Visit

A pivotal moment in the discussion is Trump's handling of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's visit to the White House, which Stephens describes as a "public humiliation" that damaged diplomatic relations and emboldened adversaries like Vladimir Putin.

Bret Stephens ([05:58]): "Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's visit to the Oval Office... was publicly humiliated and treated with the most incredible kind of discourtesy by the president and the vice president."

b. Use of Executive Orders

Stephens criticizes Trump's reliance on executive orders, portraying it as an overreach of presidential power that undermines the constitutional balance of government.

Bret Stephens ([09:03]): "He loves signing executive orders... it's him dominating people."

c. Treatment of Opponents as Toadies

He illustrates Trump's tendency to turn former opponents into subservient allies, using examples like Lindsey Graham and J.D. Vance who shifted from opposition to support.

Bret Stephens ([07:32]): "He gets the most satisfaction when he sees that he's managed to turn someone into a dependent on him."

4. Impact on the Conservative Movement

Stephens expresses concern that Trump’s brand of conservatism is damaging the broader conservative movement, making it appear illiberal and distancing it from foundational principles.

Bret Stephens ([21:37]): "The United States needs a healthy conservative movement grounded in its foundational liberal, classically liberal principles."

5. Jews and Trump: Exploitation of Antisemitism

A significant portion of the conversation addresses Trump's manipulation of antisemitism issues, which Stephens finds particularly troubling given its impact on academic freedom and Jewish values.

Bret Stephens ([12:01]): "Trump has turned a legitimate grievance... into a tool to undermine and potentially destroy a value which is, I think, a core Jewish value."

6. Conservatism vs. Trumpism

Stephens distinguishes between traditional conservatism and Trumpism, advocating for a conservatism that respects democratic norms and individual freedoms, rather than one that leans towards authoritarianism.

Bret Stephens ([21:58]): "The United States needs a conservative movement that seeks to have an honorable place in a liberal democratic order."

7. The Future of American Politics: Resilience and Hope

Despite the challenges presented by Trump's administration, Stephens remains cautiously optimistic about America's resilience. He draws parallels to historical periods of turmoil, such as the Nixon era, suggesting that the nation's democratic institutions can withstand and adapt to current pressures.

Bret Stephens ([24:17]): "America has endured other presidents who exceeded by a lot the bounds of the Constitution... the country tended again to find its balance."

8. Conclusion: Hope Amidst Challenges

Stephens concludes on a hopeful note, believing that the current trials can ultimately lead to a stronger and more resilient America. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining intellectual honesty and preserving the core values of liberal democracy.

Bret Stephens ([25:04]): "These four years of Trump... we might come out of the other end of a better country."

Notable Quotes:

• Bret Stephens ([02:39]): "The memory of things that this administration has done of which I approve is drowning in the number of things that are, in my view, reckless, stupid, awful, un-American, hateful, and bad."

• Bret Stephens ([07:32]): "He gets the most satisfaction when he sees that he's managed to turn someone into a dependent on him."

• Bret Stephens ([12:01]): "Trump has turned a legitimate grievance... into a tool to undermine and potentially destroy a value which is, I think, a core Jewish value."

• Bret Stephens ([21:58]): "The United States needs a conservative movement that seeks to have an honorable place in a liberal democratic order."

• Bret Stephens ([25:04]): "These four years of Trump... we might come out of the other end of a better country."

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a comprehensive and balanced exploration of Donald Trump's administration through the lens of Bret Stephens, a conservative thinker critical of Trump. The discussion underscores the complexities of political leadership, the importance of maintaining democratic principles, and the potential for American resilience in the face of political upheaval. For listeners and readers seeking a nuanced perspective on Trump's legacy and its implications for the future of conservatism and American democracy, this conversation provides valuable insights and thoughtful analysis.