Podcast Summary: The Opinions – David Brooks, E.J. Dionne and Robert Siegel Take Stock of 2025

Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Robert Siegel
Guests: David Brooks (NYT columnist), E.J. Dionne (Times opinion contributor)

Episode Overview

In this thoughtful and candid roundtable, veteran political commentators Robert Siegel, David Brooks, and E.J. Dionne convene to assess the turbulent year since Donald Trump’s return to the White House in 2025. The trio scrutinizes shifting public attitudes, the erosion of optimism and rise of anxiety, crises of affordability, the advent of artificial intelligence, dramatic shifts in US foreign policy, and the disturbing surge of antisemitism. The conversation stays grounded in data, history, and firsthand observations while continually probing the underlying mood and values of American society. The episode closes with each guest sharing a personal source of joy amid troubling times.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Donald Trump’s Second Term: Erosion, Not Fracture

Timestamps: 00:49–06:00

• Political Standing
  • Brooks: “We are at the 532nd episode of Donald Trump is finished.” [01:32]
    • Trump’s poll numbers have slipped and Republicans lost several significant elections.
    • Noteworthy: 20% of Trump voters now blame him for economic difficulties.
    • Disaffection is real, but not yet decisive: “Decay but not fracture.” [02:38]
  • Siegel: Presses for clarity—is Trump’s support eroding with the “reasonable majority”? [02:40]
• Dionne:
  • Asserts existence of a “reasonable majority” distancing themselves from Trump, primarily over cost-of-living issues and perceived elitism [02:48].
  • Highlights key data: Gallup, AP-NORC now have Trump at 36% approval.
  • Compares Trump’s current poll drop to Biden’s post-Afghanistan slide: “The last couple of months feel like that Afghanistan moment for Joe Biden.” [03:32]
  • Bipartisan pushback visible—even Indiana Republicans’ refusal of manipulated redistricting isn’t isolated [05:04].

Brooks: “Donald Trump is not a man to be inhibited by opposition or by rules…he has exercised power more freely while ignoring restraints, and I think he’ll continue to do that.” [02:17]

2. Mood of the Country: Anxiety & Lost Optimism

Timestamps: 06:00–10:04

• Siegel: No “optimism or excitement” in the country—“the more common word is anxiety.” [06:05]
• Dionne:
  • Economic and social “precarity” is the new norm, surpassing traditional working-class grievances:
    • Cites David Wallace-Wells’ analysis of the “Precariat”, a coalition angry at lack of affordability and elite impunity [06:34].
  • Technological unease compounds economic fears:
    • Rahm Emanuel quip: "A lot of Americans are gonna have to choose do they want their kids to be raised by parents or by an algorithm." [07:43]
• Brooks: America’s cultural DNA is being rewritten:
  • Google Ngrams now show negative words outpacing positive—a reversal from the Civil War, Depression, and World Wars [07:58].
  • “We’re in the most pessimistic, darkest cultural atmosphere in American history, at least stretching back to 1850.” [08:24]
  • Predicts a new cycle may come—by 2028 or 2032, “Reagan-esque optimism” may resonate again [09:07].

3. Democratic Strategies: Empathy and Economic Hope

Timestamps: 09:11–10:04

• Dionne:
  • Cites successful recent Democratic campaigns (Spamberger in Virginia, Sherrill in NJ, Mamdani in NY) who balanced anger about the status quo with “a sense of empathy, solidarity, mutual respect.” [09:13]
  • Believes future Democratic nominees must combine condemnation of inequality and Trumpism with “a sense of a hopeful future.” [09:52]

4. Artificial Intelligence: Twin Shadows of Hope & Fear

Timestamps: 10:04–11:46

• Siegel: AI as the “most ballyhooed technological change” since nuclear power [10:04]
  • Rising electricity bills and soaring tech stocks, but public unsure whether to be hopeful or terrified.
• Brooks: Perspectives on AI are “entirely temperament,” not evidence-based: “Optimistic people think it's going to be great and pessimistic people think it's going to be terrible.” [10:47]
  • Predicts “railroads”-like disruption: big bubbles, then normalized transformation [11:10].
• Dionne: "The wonder and the fear are sort of twins in a way. They're part of a sensible reaction." [11:25]

5. The Affordability Crisis: Reality vs. Politics

Timestamps: 11:46–17:13

• Siegel: Biden and now Trump both blamed for minimizing real pain.
  • “President Trump says there is no [affordability] crisis. It's a hoax... Is he reenacting Joe Biden's mistake of telling people who are hurting…it's all in your head?” [11:55]
• Brooks:
  • Data show wages up, inflation moderating, many products cheaper—but “most things are getting more affordable,” EXCEPT housing and health care [12:31].
  • “When you have data that contradicts people’s lived experience, you should trust the anecdote, not the data.” [13:17]
• Dionne:
  • Affords seriousness to real increases in housing, childcare, healthcare, and transportation costs: “These are real concerns, and they are things that I think are potentially responsive to policy and to political arguments.” [14:10]
• Changing expectations:
  • Brooks: Median-income families can only afford what qualified as adequate housing decades ago; increased solo living drives costs [15:22].
  • Dionne: Lower marriage/birth rates driven by anxiety and cost.
    • “Our birth rates tend to go up when people are broadly optimistic about the future. And we, certainly, we baby boomers, exist because of that optimism.” [16:40]
    • Even when wages rise, a sense of “relative deprivation” persists versus the ultra-rich.

6. Trump’s Foreign Policy: Culture War & Abandonment of Europe

Timestamps: 17:13–21:27

• Siegel: Discusses the “remarkable” Trump national security document, which frames Europe as in “civilizational erasure” due to immigration [17:13].
• Brooks: Sees the doctrine as “a foreign policy document written as if culture matters more than realpolitik.” [18:15]
  • References World Value Survey—America and Western Europe uniquely individualistic, now under cultural siege in Trumpian worldview.
• Dionne: Counters that the central value is business interests rather than culture [19:50].
  • Highlights shift from supporting center parties in Europe to siding with far-right anti-immigrant parties.
  • Decries the departure from America’s historical self-image as an immigrant nation: “There’s something just so odd to me about the States of America, which was built on immigration...this document says Europe is falling apart now because it is welcoming immigrants.” [20:43]

7. Antisemitism and Mass Violence

Timestamps: 21:27–25:33

• Coverage of shootings: Recent attacks at Brown University (US) and Bondi Beach (Australia)
• Brooks:
  • Mass shootings not on the rise, “lowest number of mass shootings in 20 years” [22:09]
  • But antisemitism is rising, especially among youth.
    • "25% of young adults say they have an unfavorable opinion of Jewish people. 20% say that Jews have too much power..." [22:57]
    • Points to toxicity of online spaces—“It becomes a norm.” [23:19]
    • Warns some protest language takes on historical, even violent, implications (“globalize the intifada”) [23:35]
• Dionne:
  • Draws a line between anti-Israel sentiment and antisemitism, warning against conflation: “Most of the people opposed to that policy are not antisemites. And I think it's very important to make that clear.” [24:02]
  • Quotes Rabbi Sharon Brous on Hanukkah as “the miracle of the persistence of light in dark times.” [24:24]
  • Emphasizes universal threat of bigotry: “Bigotry and hatred are the enemies of every free society. And antisemitism is one of the most, one of the oldest and most destructive forms.” [25:09]

8. Notes of Joy

Timestamps: 25:33–28:32

1. David Brooks: Finds wry amusement as his beloved New York Mets dismantle their team: “I’m enjoying joy in the tumult.” [26:15]
2. E.J. Dionne:
   • Delights in holiday music and traditions (“I am a sucker for the season” [26:16])
   • Shouts out Michael Connelly’s The Proving Ground—a Lincoln Lawyer mystery about AI, and Michael Lupica for continuing the Spencer stories.
3. Robert Siegel:
   • Enjoyed Adam Gopnik’s autobiographical New York one-man show and the new “Guys and Dolls” production in DC.
   • Finds joy in the creativity of New Yorkers, especially those “out of town guys who came to New York and fell in love with the place.” [27:26]

Notable Quotes

• David Brooks:

  • “Donald Trump is not a man to be inhibited by opposition or by rules.” [02:17]
  • “We’re in the most pessimistic, darkest cultural atmosphere in American history, at least stretching back to 1850.” [08:24]
  • “When you have data that contradicts people’s lived experience, you should trust the anecdote, not the data.” [13:17]

• E.J. Dionne:

  • “There is a reasonable majority in the country.” [02:48]
  • “Our birth rates tend to go up when people are broadly optimistic about the future. … quite the opposite of what people are feeling now.” [16:40]
  • “Bigotry and hatred are the enemies of every free society. And antisemitism is one of the most...destructive forms.” [25:09]

• Robert Siegel:

  • “Optimism and excitement are not words I would use to describe the mood of the country right now. The more common word is anxiety.” [06:05]
  • “Is [Trump] reenacting Joe Biden’s mistake of telling people who are hurting, who are experiencing, in that case, inflation for the first time in their lives — most of them — that it’s all in your head?” [11:55]

Section Timestamps

| Topic | Start – End | |---------------------------------------|---------------| | Trump’s Standing | 00:49 – 06:00 | | National Mood: Anxiety & Optimism | 06:00 – 10:04 | | Democrats — Empathy/Strategy | 09:11 – 10:04 | | Artificial Intelligence | 10:04 – 11:46 | | Affordability Crisis | 11:46 – 17:13 | | Trump Foreign Policy & Europe | 17:13 – 21:27 | | Antisemitism & Mass Violence | 21:27 – 25:33 | | Notes of Joy | 25:33 – 28:32 |

Tone

The tone is wry, unsparing, analytic, and grounded in data, but keeps an undercurrent of hopefulness (“joy in the tumult”) and a commitment to empathy and solidarity. All three panelists are candid about their respective positions but display mutual respect and a willingness to ponder ambiguity. The conversation blends personal anecdotes with policy and history for a deeply engaging tapestry on the state of America as 2025 draws to a close.