Podcast Summary: The Opinions – ‘Democrats Should Let the Government Shut Down’
The New York Times Opinion
Date: September 6, 2025
Host: Michelle Cottle
Guests: David French, Jamelle Bouie

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the looming threat of a U.S. federal government shutdown and the power dynamics between Congress and the Trump administration. Host Michelle Cottle is joined by columnists David French and Jamelle Bouie to debate whether Democrats should allow a shutdown in order to reassert Congressional authority over federal spending, how the Trump administration has eroded checks and balances, and the underlying dysfunction in both parties. They also discuss the ongoing Epstein files controversy and what it reveals about MAGA divisions and Congressional abdication of responsibility.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Upcoming Government Shutdown: Should Democrats Let It Happen?

• Context ([01:44]):

  • Congress returned from recess facing a large to-do list: funding the government, dealing with potential shutdown, and addressing administration transparency about the Epstein files.
  • Deadline pressure: current funding expires in two weeks.

• Jamelle Bouie: Pro-Shutdown as Leverage ([03:08]):

  • Argues Democrats should let the government shut down unless they can secure guarantees the administration will obey the law regarding Congressional appropriations.
  • "The administration has shown basically its total contempt for the idea of Congress having power over the purse...if there is no guarantee...I think that the best option is basically to say, listen, shut down the government until we can get guarantees that the White House is going to obey the law." – Jamelle Bouie [03:12]

• David French: Against Shutdowns as Tactic ([04:16]):

  • Highly skeptical; shutdowns have historically failed to achieve opposition parties' goals and usually hurt regular people and Congressional reputations.
  • Cites the 2013 Ted Cruz shutdown attempt as a cautionary tale.
  • "People get mad about government shutdowns and, and they don't always blame the party that we want them to blame when it comes to a shutdown...[I] see a lot of additional chaos, and I’m very leery about creating more power vacuums that Trump can fill." – David French [04:33]

• The Core Disagreement: Is This the Usual Shutdown?

  • Bouie distinguishes this from past shutdowns: Democrats wouldn't be making extralegal demands or filibustering; rather, they'd step aside and let the GOP solve its internal divisions ([06:05]).
  • "It’s not a demand for the administration to back off any of its lawful priorities. It’s a demand to follow the law, to treat congressional appropriations as the law. Right." – Jamelle Bouie [06:08]

• Political Risk – Who Gets Blamed?

  • French insists that if action hurts citizens, Democrats may be blamed regardless of GOP dysfunction ([09:28]).
  • Bouie counters that voters might need to "feel the pain" to understand the consequences of electing "anti-government maniacs," suggesting Democrats shouldn't bail out GOP dysfunction anymore ([11:05], [12:23]):
  • “What if you just let them get too out of hand? What if you say, you know what? This is what you voted for, this is what you wanted, and this is what you’re gonna get....Will that hurt regular people? Yes, it will. [But] does the public need to touch the stove...to figure out not to put these people back into office? I think so.” – Jamelle Bouie [12:23]

2. Trump’s “Pocket Resistance” and Congressional Powerlessness

• Trump’s New Tactic ([14:31]):

  • Trump, in a slap at Congress, is now unilaterally clawing back congressional funding (citing $5 billion in foreign aid), complicating prospects for bipartisan funding bills.
  • Even Republicans are uneasy about this overt disregard for Congress’s appropriations power.

• Congress’s Diminished Role

  • Panelists lament Congress’s slide from a governing to a “support” position, both in public perception and self-concept ([25:53], [27:53]).
  • “In the constitutional text, Congress’s job isn’t to provide accountability for the executive branch, it’s to lead the government…But for the last half century… it’s the president that leads the government...all of that has left us with a Congress…that has abdicated most of its authority to the presidency.” – Jamelle Bouie [27:53]

3. The Epstein Files: Scandal, Secrecy, and MAGA’s Fragility

• Release and Stonewalling ([16:32]):

  • House Oversight released previously seen files on Epstein; Trump administration distracts, but pressure mounts, including from Republican critics like Thomas Massie.
  • “You can’t explicitly run on, we’re gonna release the Epstein files, and then when you’re there, be like...on second thought, we’re not gonna do it.” – Jamelle Bouie [16:32]

• Does Withholding Hurt More Than Revealing? ([19:27]):

  • Bouie: Drip-drip scandals tend to damage more than flash-in-the-pan ones—Trump’s practice is to be brazen so nothing sticks.
  • “Trump runs around in public wearing the blue dress, like, there’s no drip, drip, drip. His corruption is just right there.” – David French [22:43]

• MAGA’s Post-Trump Fault Lines ([17:29]):

  • French predicts the Epstein controversy may expose and deepen rifts within the MAGA movement, potentially leading to factions when Trump is no longer the unifying figure.

4. Media Attention and Congressional Stagnation

• Should Media Cover Congress Less? ([24:17]):

  • French suggests media focus should shift from Congress to the judiciary, which often holds more practical power.
  • “You can have a member of Congress who’s walking through the halls…got a gaggle around them. Of media. Right. And yet…who has more influence over your life?…It’s the chief judge of the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals by 5,000 miles.” – David French [28:50]

• Why Congress Isn’t Reclaiming Power

  • Bouie argues only a massive, party-wide change will restore Congressional authority—a few crusading individuals won’t suffice ([31:38]).
  • Both agree that rebuilding Congressional influence requires collective will, possibly driven by post-crisis reforms ([32:25], [33:01]):

  "He has broken so many things that there is going to be a rebuild task. And I would say if the vision for rebuilding doesn’t involve structural reforms to revive Congress, we’re just going to be doing a repeat play of this awful tragedy." – David French [33:01]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If the administration is just not going to take seriously what Congress says it ought to spend…I think that the best option is basically…shut down the government until we can get guarantees that the White House is going to obey the law.” – Jamelle Bouie [03:12]
• “One thing that is going to stop him is either acts of Congress that are so crystal clear that they’re going to be backed up by the Supreme Court...or, quite frankly, electoral losses in the midterms. And even then…” – David French [07:48]
• “If it feels like they’re not trying to hide, [it] doesn’t feel corrupt to people.” – David French [23:09]
• “Congress, in a fair reading of the text, is the leading branch of the government...But…for the last half century, [it’s] the president that leads...” – Jamelle Bouie [27:53]
• “If I’m at dinner…one of the people…introduces themselves, I’m a member of Congress, Republican member of Congress from your district—he is immediately the least interesting person to me at the table.” – David French [30:05]

Timestamps of Key Segments

• [03:08] – Jamelle Bouie’s case for a conditional government shutdown
• [04:16] – David French’s cautionary perspective on shutdowns and historical context
• [06:05] – Distinction between this shutdown and past ones; issues of legal compliance vs. policy fights
• [11:05] – Bouie’s "let voters feel the pain" argument
• [14:31] – Trump’s “pocket resistance” and funding power play
• [16:32] – The Epstein files controversy and political fallout
• [17:29] – French: Epstein as an indicator of MAGA coalition instability
• [19:27] – The political impact of hiding versus releasing the Epstein files
• [24:17] – French: Should media give Congress less attention?
• [27:53] – Bouie on Congress's constitutional role and contemporary irrelevance
• [32:25] – Panelists on how Congressional renewal could be possible post-crisis

Conclusion & Recommendations ([34:40])

The episode closes with each panelist offering a personal recommendation to lighten the mood:

• Jamelle Bouie: Fall festivals with family—enjoy the season, shoot apples from a cannon ([34:40]).
• David French: “Foundation” (Apple TV+)—sci-fi series reflecting on chaos and recovery ([35:36]).
• Michelle Cottle: “I Was a Teenage Slasher”—a fast, fun, tongue-in-cheek horror read ([37:02]).

Summary Takeaways

• The panel remains sharply divided on the strategic value of a shutdown, but united in their concern over Congress’ fading relevance and the extraordinary erosion of checks and balances in the Trump era.
• The Epstein controversy may test the resilience of MAGA unity more than previous scandals—especially if the slow leaks resume.
• Both guests emphasize that only a broad, institutional effort, likely after a major crisis or realignment, will revitalize the legislative branch.
• Despite the bleak diagnosis, panelists urge a focus on long-term reform (“waste no crisis”)—and savoring the small joys of fall.

End of summary.