How a Book From 1981 Anticipated This Political Moment

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How a Book From 1981 Anticipated This Political Moment"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Opinions
• Host/Author: The New York Times Opinion
• Description: One voice, one opinion, in 10 minutes or less.
• Episode: How a Book From 1981 Anticipated This Political Moment
• Release Date: December 5, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of The Opinions, opinion columnists Pamela Paul and Carlos Lozada delve into the profound impact literature can have on our understanding of the current political and social landscape. They explore how books, both classic and contemporary, capture and illuminate the complexities of the times we live in.

Discussing Samuel Huntington's "American: The Promise of Disharmony"

Carlos Lozada opens the conversation by highlighting his selection of a pivotal yet less renowned book, American: The Promise of Disharmony (1981) by Samuel Huntington. Despite its age, Lozada emphasizes the book's striking relevance to contemporary political dynamics.

• Anticipating Political Turmoil: Lozada notes, "He wrote that in moments when the gap between America's professed values and reality is greatest, you get what he calls a moment creedal passion" ([02:23]). Huntington posits that such periods are characterized by intense questioning of authority and expertise, heightened polarization, and the rise of new social movements.

• Predictions Realized: Reflecting on the book's foresight, Lozada states, "What's crazy is that he even wrote then in '81. He tried to anticipate when the next such creedal passion moment would happen. And he said if the periodicity of the past prevails, a major sustained creedal passion period will occur in the second and third decades of the 21st century" ([02:23]). This prediction aligns closely with the political climate experienced in recent years, particularly during the Trump administration.

• American Ideals vs. Reality: Lozada underscores Huntington's nuanced perspective on the American dream, noting, "America is not a lie. It is a disappointment. But it can only be a disappointment because it is also a hope" ([04:19]). This dichotomy between aspiration and reality serves as a foundational theme in Huntington's analysis, offering a lens through which to view ongoing societal challenges.

Pamela Paul's Book Selection: "The Sing Sing One"

Contrasting Lozada's selection, Pamela Paul introduces her choice: The Sing Sing One: Journalist, Six Innocent Men and a 20-Year Fight for Justice by Dan Slepien. This contemporary work provides an in-depth examination of the American criminal justice system through the lens of wrongful convictions.

• Focus on Criminal Justice Reform: Paul explains, "This book is an account of the work that Slapjian has been doing for Dateline... looking at cases of wrongful conviction in Sing Sing" ([07:03]). She highlights the systemic issues that lead to prolonged incarcerations despite clear evidence of innocence.

• Cultural Reflection: Paul connects the book's themes to broader societal attitudes, stating, "We are such a vindictive, vengeful kind of culture... We're so polarized, we're so incapable of reexamining our own biases and assumptions" ([07:03]). The narrative underscores the challenges of overcoming entrenched biases and the difficulty of reforming a flawed system.

Connecting Literature to the Current Political Moment

The dialogue between Paul and Lozada illustrates how literature serves as a mirror to societal values and conflicts. They discuss the enduring relevance of Huntington's work in understanding present-day political divisions and the role of contemporary books like Slepien's in highlighting specific systemic issues.

• Definitional Battles in Politics: Lozada remarks, "Americans divide most sharply over what brings them together... it's not just policy preferences, but these kind of foundational beliefs about what the country is or should be" ([06:25]). This observation reflects Huntington's assertion about the centrality of creedal identity in political discourse.

• Optimism Through Bipartisan Issues: Paul offers a note of optimism, pointing out that "criminal justice reform is one of the few issues that does have a certain degree of bipartisan support" ([11:40]). She suggests that areas with cross-party agreement, such as reforming the criminal justice system, may see positive changes at both state and federal levels.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a mutual appreciation of the selected books' ability to offer insights into America's ongoing struggles with identity, justice, and ideological polarization. Paul and Lozada underscore the importance of engaging with literature that not only reflects but also challenges and shapes public discourse.

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Notable Quotes:

• Carlos Lozada: "American is not a lie. It is a disappointment. But it can only be a disappointment because it is also a hope." ([04:19])

• Pamela Paul: "We are such a vindictive, vengeful kind of culture... We're so polarized, we're so incapable of reexamining our own biases and assumptions." ([07:03])

• Carlos Lozada: "Americans divide most sharply over what brings them together... it's not just policy preferences, but these kind of foundational beliefs about what the country is or should be." ([06:25])

• Pamela Paul: "Criminal justice reform is one of the few issues that does have a certain degree of bipartisan support." ([11:40])

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Opinions deftly illustrates the power of books to encapsulate and anticipate the nuances of political and social upheaval. By revisiting Samuel Huntington's prescient work alongside contemporary analyses of the criminal justice system, Paul and Lozada provide listeners with a rich framework for understanding and navigating the complexities of modern America.

Transcript

[US Bank]

This podcast is supported by US Bank. At US bank, when they say they're in it with you, they mean it. Not just for the good stuff, the grand openings and celebrations, although those are pretty great, but for all the hard work it took to get there. Because together they're proving day in and day out that there is nothing as powerful as the power of us. Visit us bank.com to get started today. Equal Housing Lender Member FDIC.

[New York Times]

This is the Opinions, a show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it.

[Pamela Paul]

I'm Pamela Paul, an opinion columnist for the New York Times.

[Carlos Lozada]

And I'm Carlos Lozada, also an opinion columnist at the Times.

[Pamela Paul]

So both of us have had long roles in the book world. I was the editor of the New York Times Book Review for almost a decade, and you, of course, were the longtime nonfiction critic for the Washington Post. So the two of us tend to see things through the lens of books. And I thought this would be a good time for us to look at our current moment, whether that's political, economic, historical, and think about a book that in some way captures or crystallizes or helps us understand this moment.

[Carlos Lozada]

The book. The book. The book.

[Pamela Paul]

The book of all books.

[Carlos Lozada]

That's a little. That's a high bar.

[Pamela Paul]

Yes. But you have a book. What did you pick?

[Carlos Lozada]

I do. I have a book. So I should mention, you know, in my prior incarnation as a book critic at the Washington Post and now as a columnist at the Times, I spent a lot of my time reading political books and thinking about this question. Books that help explain the moment. So I read my fill of, you know, books that explain the Trump era. Right.

[Pamela Paul]

You've written a whole book about books that explain the Trump era.

[Carlos Lozada]

Yes, yes. Yeah. To get meta. And, you know, a lot of these are books that have come out in recent years. But the book that I keep turning to that helps me think about what is going on now is a much older book. It was published when I was in elementary school in 1981. I did not read it then, but it's called American the Promise of Disharmony by the late political scientist Samuel Huntington. I have a very tattered, falling apart copy here in front of me.

[Pamela Paul]

Yes. With many post its to show that you've actually read it and reread it.

[Carlos Lozada]

Exactly. Which I have. I keep coming back to it. So if you know Huntington, you probably know him for his clash of civilizations thesis from the 90s. If you're like A military buff. You may know him for this book, the Soldier and the State, which he wrote in the 50s. He had a very long career. This book is less well known, and it looks at what happens in America when we fail to live up to our professed values, to who we say we are. So he writes that there's always a gap, right, between our values of liberty and equality and individualism and constitutionalism and the ability of our government and our institutions and our nation to live up to those values, to deliver on those values. But he says that in moments when that gap is greatest, you get what he calls a moment creedal passion. We get mad because we can't live up to the creed, right? And he says that in those moments, the promise of American politics becomes its central agony. So he looks at the Jacksonian era, he looks at 1960s, looks at various moments in American life, and he says, in these moments, here's what happens. Authority and expertise are questioned. Polarization is high. Protest is high. Intense hostility towards power and wealth. You get new social movements surrounding criminal justice, surrounding women's rights, and you see new media emerging devoted to advocacy and adversarial journalism. And he wrote this in 1981, in 81. And when I first read, it was in 2017. Right. It was sort of early in the Trump presidency. And it amazed me how well it anticipated so many of those debates. And what's crazy is that he even wrote then in 81. He tried to anticipate when the next such creedal passion moment would happen. And he said if the periodicity of the past prevails, a major sustained creedal passion period will occur in the second and third decades of the 21st century.

[Pamela Paul]

I thought you were going to say something scary, like in the fall of 2024.

[Carlos Lozada]

No, but we're basically right on schedule. Right? And so what I find fascinating about this book is that in his telling, the American dream sort of matters most because it is never quite fulfilled. The reconciliation of liberty with inequality and the rest is never complete. But it's not really a pessimistic book, even if it sounds like it. He has this line at the end that I just always think about. Critics say that America is a lie because its reality falls so short of its ideals, they are wrong. America is not a lie. It is a disappointment. But it can only be a disappointment because it is also a hope. Right? And that is something that I think about and kind of rely on all the time as I'm thinking about, not just what I write about or what I do as a journalist, but just as a citizen. You know, this kind of gets me by.

[Pamela Paul]

So, thinking about what we can expect in the next four years, what would you say, like, in what way does this book American, the Promise of Disharmony, Not a very positive title.

[Carlos Lozada]

Like, what kind of gives it away. Right.

[Pamela Paul]

I mean, like, what does this tell us about where we are now in terms of what we think it means to be an American?

[Carlos Lozada]

Yeah. One of the things I find fascinating about the book is how it highlights not just what Americans fight over, but how Americans fight over those things. Right. Whether you're debating healthcare or taxes or immigration or war, Americans invariably invoke the founding values. Right. The founding creed of America, to challenge whatever, you know, policy or injustice they perceive. Right. So it's not that a reform is just necessary or sensible. It has to be articulated and defended in terms of the creed. Right. That's not who we are is sort of a very common attack line, right?

[Pamela Paul]

Yes.

[Carlos Lozada]

You know, it's not just. It's bad, it's un American. That's why you see a lot of Trump's opponents have often attacked his policies not just by saying they're wrong, but by saying, you know, they're un American, they're not who we are. And Huntington really speaks to that. He says Americans divide most sharply over what brings them together. Right. And so it's those definitional questions that we overlay on kind of like all our debates. And I think you've seen that not just in the last election, but throughout the Trump era.

[Pamela Paul]

Right. I mean, that was the response of many to the election, which was actually the. This is exactly who we are, and we have to deal with this.

[Carlos Lozada]

Yeah. And I think that's hard to deal with. Right. Because sometimes the way we make these arguments is not just about policy preferences, but these kind of foundational beliefs about what the country is or should be. And the rise of Trump has challenged that for a lot of folks who would instinctively rely on, you know, this is not normal. This is not who we are. Right. When in fact, it very much may be.

[Pamela Paul]

Well, I'm gonna read it, but I think I am gonna get a copy that is not as war torn as Warren.

[Carlos Lozada]

That is not falling apart. Yes. What's yours? What's your book that helps you figure out this time?

[Pamela Paul]

So, you know, when you and I talked about this, when we conceived of having this conversation, like, is it the book of all time? Is it the book that we read this year and you went wide horizon and I suffer from the tyranny of choice when I think about it in those terms. And I also have the residual way of thinking from my the book review, which is often like, what are the books this year? And even more often like, what's the book this week? And I'm actually going to go even further to talk about the book that I read most recently. It is called The Sing Sing One journalist, six innocent men and a 20 year fight for justice by Dan Slepien, who is a producer at Dateline. And this book came out this year and it looks at a subject that has of long of interest to me, which is basically all of the problems with our criminal justice system. I tend to look at every book sort of that I'm reading at a given moment as the most important book of that moment. I tend to view it through the lens of what's going on now. And when I was thinking about which book I wanted to choose, I didn't want to think about it simply in terms of Washington or the presidential election, partly because I think we often focus so much on that to the exclusion of the rest of the huge country and everything that's going on. So this book is an account of the work that Slapjian has been doing for dateline, but also to a large extent on his own time, looking at cases of wrongful conviction in Sing Sing, an infamous prison that is in Ossin, New York, just outside of the city. And all of the people whom he writes about were imprisoned in Sing Sing, and all of them were convicted for crimes they did not commit, and all of them spent years in prison even after it was quite clear there was overwhelming evidence that their convictions were wrong. Of course, we've had a number of these very high profile situations, and the Central Park Five is probably the most notorious case in New York, and that comes up in this book. What is terrifying and depressing is that even after these very high profile situations where convictions have proven to have been incorrect and people are in prison, it can take years to get them out. So what this book brought up for me are a number of things both specific to the criminal justice system, but also tell a story about this country and the way it thinks about good and evil and crime and punishment and innocence and guilt. We are such a vindictive, vengeful kind of culture. I think, especially right now, there's a tendency to think in terms of good and evil, of bad guys, of good guys. We're so polarized, we're so incapable of reexamining our own biases and assumptions. And it's that kind of ideological intransigence that makes this kind of like, petty, practical intransigence even worse.

[Carlos Lozada]

You know, I picked a book that was very much about American politics. You know, these big picture questions of American identity and values. You picked something very specific, you know, very contained the lives of six people caught up in the criminal justice system. How do you see that book, you know, connecting in sort of a tight way with the moment we're living through politically?

[Pamela Paul]

Yeah. You know, crime, which obviously is what this book focuses on, was one of the most common concerns articulated by voters. And in that sense, maybe there's room for a little bit of optimism, because criminal justice reform is one of the few issues that does have a certain degree of bipartisan support. And I don't know how much we can judge Trump, too, based on Trump won. But during the first Trump administration, he had the First Step Act. He was interested, it seems, and open to ideas around reforming the criminal justice system. So this might be one of those places where not only might we see movement on a state by state basis, but perhaps could see some positive change federally.

[Carlos Lozada]

I think I should probably dip into the Sing Sing files.

[Pamela Paul]

You want to trade books?

[Carlos Lozada]

You know, if you don't mind this old, tattered, pathetic copy, we can go ahead and do that.

[Pamela Paul]

All right, on that note, on that holiday giving note. Thank you, Carlos.

[Carlos Lozada]

Thanks, Pamela.

[New York Times]

If you like this show, follow it on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. This show is produced by Derek Arthur, Sophia Alvarez, Boyd Visaka Derba, Phoebe Lett, Christina Samulewski and Jillian Weinberger. It's edited by Kari Pitkin, Allison Brusek and Annie Rose Strasser. Engineering, mixing, and original music by Isaac Jones, sonia Herrera, Pat McCusker, Carol Saburo and Afim Shapiro. Additional music by Amin Suhota. The Fact Check team is Kate Sinclair, Mary, Marge Locker, and Michelle Harris. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta, Christina Samulewski and Adrian Rivera. The executive producer of Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Dresser.