Podcast Summary: The Opinions – "Marijuana Is Everywhere. That’s a Problem."

Host: Emily Bazelon, with Herman Lopez & David Leonhardt
Published: February 10, 2026

Overview

This episode brings together three members of The New York Times Opinion editorial board – Emily Bazelon, Herman Lopez, and David Leonhardt – to discuss America’s evolving relationship with marijuana. Drawing from their newly published editorial, the panel explores marijuana’s normalization, its unforeseen cultural and health impacts since legalization, and advocates for a middle-ground approach: regulating the marijuana industry with "grudging toleration."

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Cultural Shift Around Marijuana

• Normalization: Marijuana has gone from taboo to a visible, accepted part of daily life, especially post-legalization.
  • "Once legalization took off, you just saw more people using it in public...it's another thing to culturally embrace it. And I think we have really culturally embraced it in a way that has surprised me." – Herman Lopez [01:47]
• Ubiquity: Marijuana odors and shops are now common in cities such as New York, D.C., and Colorado.
  • "The smell is everywhere...it's just become a normal part of the commercial landscape." – David Leonhardt [02:30]
• Potency and Usage Shifts: Marijuana today is much stronger, particularly edibles, leading to unexpected experiences even for occasional users.
  • "With edibles, I have to be really careful and start with, like, a really small amount." – Emily Bazelon [03:07]
  • "[Edibles are] so much stronger than anything I had been used to." – Herman Lopez [03:34]

Revisiting Legalization and the Editorial Board's Position

• 2014 Stance: NYT previously compared marijuana prohibition to alcohol’s, championing the cause of legalization (Repeal Prohibition Again [04:26]).
• Recognition of Injustice: Legalization ended a significant racial and socioeconomic injustice tied to prohibition.
  • "The people who bore those costs [of arrest] were disproportionately poor, disproportionately black, and disproportionately Latino...Ending the criminalization of marijuana has meant that we have ended that form of injustice." – David Leonhardt [07:38]

Unintended Consequences and Public Health

• Sharp Rise in Use: More Americans use marijuana daily than drink alcohol daily – a dramatic shift.
  • "We've seen sharp increase in daily users. More people now use pot daily in the US than use alcohol daily." – Herman Lopez [05:19]
• Addiction and Health Concerns: Increased admissions to emergency rooms with CHS (cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome), more observed addiction, and lingering cultural myths about marijuana’s safety.
  • "People saying on their own in national surveys that they have a problem with marijuana." – Herman Lopez [09:25]

The Middle Ground: "Grudging Toleration"

• Definition: The approach, inspired by criminologist Mark Kleiman, advocates for legalization without enthusiastic cultural embrace.
  • "Just because you legalize something does not mean you have to embrace it. So how do we balance these things?...You can tolerate something, you can make it legal, but you don’t really have to think it should be part of everyday life." – Herman Lopez [10:39]
• Comparison to Other Vices: Tobacco and alcohol are legal but stringently regulated and taxed to reduce harm.

Policy Recommendations

1. Raise Taxes on Marijuana
   • Use tobacco as a model: higher prices reduce use, especially among heavy users.
   • Implement taxes based on THC levels – higher for stronger products.
   • "We should tax marijuana based in part on its THC levels. And...raise them the same way." – David Leonhardt [12:12]
2. Rethink Medical Marijuana
   • Current dispensary claims are unregulated and often unsupported by evidence.
   • "We should just step back and wonder, should we really have all these dispensaries claiming, without evidence, that medical marijuana does all these great things?" – Herman Lopez [14:06]
3. Regulate Corporate Marketing
   • Concerns about "big weed" employing strategies from big tobacco and alcohol companies—targeted toward kids with products like "Trips Ahoy."
   • "There are products called Trips Ahoy...And this is classic playbook of corporations that care much more about their own profits than the well being of Americans." – David Leonhardt [16:17]
4. Accept Some Market Leakage
   • Regulation may drive some consumers back to the black market, but this does not invalidate regulation’s value.
   • "No law is perfect...But the bigger dynamic will be that harmful behavior by companies will be less common." – David Leonhardt [17:30]

The ‘Vice’ Framing and Social Trade-Offs

• Marijuana as a Vice: Acknowledgment that like alcohol or gambling, marijuana can be both enjoyable and detrimental.
  • "Yes, smoking pot is a vice. So is drinking alcohol, which is something I very much enjoy doing...That doesn't mean people who do these activities are bad...But you want to be honest about the trade offs." – David Leonhardt [20:07]
• Cultural Overcorrection: Moving from punitive attitudes to celebration/glorification risks missing the complex, nuanced middle.
  • "In some ways...marijuana portrayed in the last few decades, it’s not just that it's not a vice, but it's a literal virtue...I think we've gone way too far in glorifying its use." – Herman Lopez [20:59]
• Balancing Legalization with Regulation: The group affirms support for legalization but argues that regulation was never taken seriously enough by advocates or legislatures.
  • "I think the advocates said for a long time, legalize and regulate. And I think we really need to take the second part of that seriously." – Herman Lopez [23:54]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cultural Change:
  "Culturally, we've gone from marijuana as this taboo thing to something that a celebrity like Gwyneth Paltrow invests in." – Herman Lopez [01:47]

• On Health Effects:
  "Marijuana is not as benign as we thought. It's addictive. It can cause real health problems like cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome." – Herman Lopez [05:19]

• On Regulation and Trade-Offs:
  "No law is perfect...But the bigger dynamic will be that essentially harmful behavior by companies will be less common." – David Leonhardt [17:30]

• On Middle-Ground Policy:
  "You can tolerate something, you can make it legal, but you don't really have to think it should be part of everyday life." – Herman Lopez [10:39]

• On Being Misunderstood as ‘Narcs’:
  "By the nature of this editorial...we're talking a lot about why we're making the case for regulation. But all three of us are supporters of legalization...It's not just that we're people who oppose marijuana legalization to begin with..." – Herman Lopez [23:23]

Key Segment Timestamps

• 01:47 — Cultural shift and normalization of marijuana
• 03:34 — Edible potency and personal anecdotes
• 04:26 — NYT’s 2014 editorial stance revisited
• 05:19 — Unintended public health consequences post-legalization
• 07:38 — Legalization, injustice, and racial disparities
• 10:39 — Defining “grudging toleration” as a regulatory philosophy
• 12:12 — Policy ideas: taxes, THC-based regulation
• 14:06 — Medical marijuana: regulatory and scientific skepticism
• 15:41 — Corporate influence and marketing tactics
• 17:30 — Regulation vs. the black market and real-world trade-offs
• 20:07 — Framing marijuana as a vice: modern and historical perspectives
• 23:23 — Clarifying the board’s position: pro-legalization, pro-regulation

Tone & Language

Conversational, reflective, and nuanced. The hosts combine personal anecdotes, editorial insights, and policy analysis with a balanced, almost skeptical optimism. They frequently question both the culture’s romanticization of marijuana and the failures of state regulation, all while expressing a foundational support for legalization done responsibly.

For listeners and readers alike, this episode offers a sharp and detailed exploration of the true consequences of marijuana legalization – urging for less celebration and more sensible controls as America navigates the era of “big weed.”