Podcast Summary: The Opinions — "People Still Want to Get Married. Why Aren't They?"

The New York Times Opinion | October 29, 2025
Host: Meher Ahmad
Guests: Jessica Gross (NYT Opinion Writer), Glynis McNicol (Author, Memoirist)

Overview

This episode explores the cultural, economic, and technological factors behind the perceived decline and changing perceptions of marriage, particularly among women. Meher Ahmad, joined by Jessica Gross and Glynis McNicol, delves into issues such as "relationship malaise," online dating exhaustion, women's increasing self-sufficiency, and the rise of alternative life narratives. The conversation unpacks survey data, generational shifts, and how changing attitudes reflect broader societal transformations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is There a Sense of Doom Around Modern Relationships?

• Generational Shift: While outright rejection of marriage remains stable, current anxieties are unique to this era, primarily due to online dating and shifting gender roles.
  • Jessica Gross: "People find [online dating] dehumanizing, soulless, unfun. ... A lot of it is specific unhappiness with the online gamification of relationships." (01:46)
• Marriage as a Choice, Not a Requirement: For the first time, marriage isn't necessary for a fulfilling life, especially for financially self-sufficient women.
  • Jessica Gross: "The idea that women could be self supporting and self sustaining, that's like the past 20 years that it's a majority of women who could support themselves into adult life." (02:52)

2. Changing Cultural Narratives & Alternatives to Marriage

• Destigmatization: Women are increasingly forging and sharing fulfilling lives outside marriage, diminishing its role as the singular path to happiness.
  • Glynis McNicol: "...Now we have a lot of examples of what it looks like to be leading a life outside of that, and the ways it can be fulfilling and enjoyable and adventurous." (05:08)
• Comparing Life Paths: The hardships associated with motherhood and partnerships (especially uncovered during COVID) amplify the appeal of alternatives.
  • Glynis McNicol: "In a country that does not provide childcare or much support for women who do want to be parents...when the alternative, for the first time in history is starting to look far more enjoyable, I think contributes to this sense of, well, what is the point of this?" (05:38)

3. Why Have Marriage Rates Plateaued?

• Survey Data: According to a Pew survey, 48% of women (vs. 39% of men) say marriage isn't important for a fulfilling life.
• Marriage as a Capstone: People now delay marriage, seeing it as something to pursue after achieving financial and emotional stability.
  • Jessica Gross: "It is taking young people much, much longer to feel that they are in a place that is settled enough to get married." (06:55)

4. The Impact of COVID and Ongoing Gender Disparities

• COVID Amplification: The pandemic highlighted and exacerbated gendered inequities, especially around household and childcare responsibilities.
  • Glynis McNicol: "We heard so loudly and understandably from so many women who felt that they were shouldering all of the household responsibilities, all of the childcare responsibilities, in a very intense and difficult time." (07:51)
• Policy Questions: The real issue may be systemic support (or lack thereof) for women and families, especially regarding childcare and work penalties for mothers.

5. The Difficulty (and Appeal) of Living Outside Marriage

• Representation Affects Reality: An increasing number of cultural examples showing happy, single, and independent women are providing relief and validation to others.
  • Glynis McNicol: "When narratives do pop up, there's an enormous relief in seeing your life reflected in a cultural narrative. To not have that feels extremely isolating and punishing." (10:04)
• The Reality of Singlehood: While single life can be fulfilling, it's still financially and socially challenging; both paths involve trade-offs.

6. Online Dating: Disposability and Dissatisfaction

• The "Swipe Culture": Dating apps foster endless options and perfectionism, making intimacy harder to cultivate and increasing dissatisfaction.
  • Glynis McNicol: "It's this sense of disposability and there's not even just like the basic. The way you meet someone and like, do you like how they smell? ...So much of what a relationship...is built on is, you know, in person contact. And these apps remove that..." (13:06)
• Broader Digital Malaise: Screen-based living (social media, online relationships) increases isolation, exhaustion, and makes forging real bonds more difficult.

7. Red Flags, Growth, and Relationship Flexibility

• Changing Standards: App dating encourages rigid screening that might miss out on natural personal growth.
  • Jessica Gross: "Today, yes. When we started dating in our early 20s, we would have just failed every Internet red flag test... So if anyone under the age of 30 is listening...people do grow up." (14:16)
  • Glynis McNicol: "I think the hope is you grow and change in the same direction together." (15:00)
• Later Marriage Means Stronger Individual Identity: The older people are when they couple, the more established and less flexible they may be.

8. Not a Rejection, But an Expansion of Options

• There is no clear replacement for marriage, but rather an expansion of legitimate choices and new uncertainties.
  • Meher Ahmad: "...we are now in this era where that partnership is not the default, and if it's not the default, that there's this kind of, like, wellspring of other options that's now starting to spring up." (15:34)
  • Jessica Gross: "In every major life choice, it's trade offs. Right. It's so individual, and it is so based on what your desires are and how well you know yourself." (16:38)
• The Newness of This Change: Only in very recent history have women had this level of autonomy, making the culture-wide adjustment and conversation feel pressing and sometimes panicked.
  • Glynis McNicol: "We've only had one way for women to live for most of history, so a small portion of women are now very recently able to live in a different way...and it's having an outsized effect." (17:25)

9. Reduction of Stigma

• The decrease in stigma allows for more open conversation and visibility around living single, prompting more writing and reflection on these changing cultural dynamics.
  • Meher Ahmad: "...the stigma of it all has been lifted a little bit more." (18:25)
  • Glynis McNicol: "A little bit, yeah." (18:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jessica Gross on Online Dating Discontent:
  "People find [online dating] dehumanizing, soulless, unfun." (01:46)
• Glynis McNicol on Alternative Fulfillment:
  "Now we have a lot of examples of what it looks like to be leading a life outside of that, and the ways it can be fulfilling and enjoyable and adventurous." (05:08)
• Jessica Gross on Relationship Growth:
  "[Red flags] — He lived with five other guys in a concrete room with no windows....So if anyone under the age of 30 is listening to this, I would say people do grow up. It does happen." (14:16)
• Glynis McNicol on Relief in Representation:
  "...there's an enormous relief in seeing your life reflected in a cultural narrative. To not have that feels extremely isolating and punishing." (10:04)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:45] Introduction to discussion: Setting the stage for relationship malaise
• [01:38] Is there a sense of doom around relationships? (Jessica and Glynis respond)
• [06:05] Decline and plateau of marriage; Pew survey discussed
• [07:50] COVID-19’s impact and the burdens on women
• [10:02] Rise of alternative life narratives and singlehood
• [12:07] How dating apps change and complicate the search for partnership
• [14:11] The "red flag" phenomenon and personal growth over time
• [15:34] Not a rejection, but a diversification of life options
• [17:25] Historical perspective: How new women’s autonomy is
• [18:25] Reduction in stigma and increasing representation

Conclusion

This conversation highlights the unprecedented freedom and range of choices now available to women (and to society at large) regarding marriage, partnerships, and personal fulfillment. Key takeaways include the negotiation of gender roles, the upsides and downsides of online dating, the rising visibility and validation of singlehood, and the ongoing need for policy support to make all options (including marriage) more viable and equitable. The transition is new, complex, and ongoing—leading to both cultural anxiety and exciting, previously unimaginable possibilities.