The Opinions – The Democrat Who Split MAGA Over the Epstein Files
Host: David Leonhardt, The New York Times Opinion
Guest: Congressman Ro Khanna (D-CA)
Date: November 18, 2025
Overview
This episode explores the unlikely coalition and maneuvering behind the House bill to force release of the Jeffrey Epstein files—a move that split Trump’s MAGA base. Host David Leonhardt interviews Congressman Ro Khanna, the Democrat co-sponsoring the bill, about its origins, bipartisan machinations, personal motivations, the political fractures exposed, and Khanna’s broader lessons for Democrats hoping to win the trust of Americans skeptical of elite institutions.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Trump’s Reversal and the Congressional Dynamics
[00:49–05:43]
- David Leonhardt introduces the House vote on the Epstein files bill and Trump’s high-profile reversal to support it.
- Ro Khanna details the intense bipartisan effort required to gather signatures for a discharge petition, facing strong resistance from House leadership and the White House.
- Trump only backed the bill when it became clear his base was splintering and a large GOP rebellion was imminent.
“Donald Trump saw that he was going to lose. I mean, this is the first time... almost a hundred Republicans would have voted for a Democratic bill for the Khanna Epstein Transparency Act.”
— Ro Khanna [02:28]
- Only four Republicans (Marjorie Taylor Greene, Nancy Mace, Lauren Boebert, and Thomas Massie) ultimately signed onto the petition.
- Trump actively tried to discourage Republican support, including threatening primaries and pulling endorsements.
“Someone said to me, he’s treating Ghislaine Maxwell better than he’s treating Marjorie Taylor Greene these days...”
— Ro Khanna [04:13]
- Khanna predicts the final House vote will approach unanimity now that Trump has endorsed the bill.
2. Why Khanna Took Up the Epstein Files Cause
[05:43–08:31]
- Khanna’s engagement grew out of visiting ‘factory towns’ with hollowed-out economies and appearing on podcasts across the political spectrum.
- He repeatedly encountered the phrase “Epstein class” as a symbol of elite corruption and government failure, resonating more deeply than he expected.
- Republican and MAGA communities framed the Epstein scandal as emblematic of betrayal by elites—a betrayal Trump had campaigned on correcting.
- After connecting with victims and survivors, the issue became personal for Khanna.
“Once you meet these survivors… it’s just one of the most horrific crimes in our country’s history.”
— Ro Khanna [08:26]
3. The Survivors, Their Motivations, and the ‘Epstein Class’
[08:31–10:01]
- Survivors want the files released to learn the truth about what happened to them, and many cite systemic cover-ups by entrenched power structures.
- Khanna notes survivors want justice, not vengeance, and some even wish to appeal to Trump directly for transparency.
"There’s still buildings named after the men who abused me."
— Anonymous survivor, paraphrased by Ro Khanna [08:41]
- The breadth of the abuse and the number of victims convinced Khanna that the issue transcended partisanship and symbolized something much larger.
4. Facing Democratic Pushback for Crossing Media Lines
[10:01–12:13]
- Khanna received criticism from fellow Democrats for appearing on conservative or controversial platforms, accused of “legitimizing” or “platforming” them.
- He defends the approach as a way to listen, learn, and engage rather than merely persuade or score points.
“They don’t need me to have a platform. They already… have a platform. I’m engaged in listening in [an] exchange of ideas.”
— Ro Khanna [10:53]
- He believes going on these shows regularly to have genuine conversations—not just during election cycles—helps bridge divides and inform democratic strategy.
5. The Depth of Distrust: Economic Decline and MAGA Sentiment
[13:03–15:40]
- Khanna highlights deep emotional, not just economic, ties that many rural Americans feel to Trump because he acknowledged their loss and sense of abandonment.
- The Epstein scandal became potent shorthand for the system’s corruption.
- Many see both economic and social fabric ripped away, blaming a “rootless global elite.” Trump’s promise: tear it down; Khanna’s vision: build it up.
“If I was in one of those communities, I’d vote everyone out, too. Why wouldn’t you?”
— Ro Khanna [13:37]
6. The Bill as a Political Wedge
[15:40–17:27]
- Initially, Khanna didn’t see Epstein as a wedge to split MAGA, expecting Trump to quickly endorse the measure.
- As the bill gained grassroots MAGA support, right-wing commentators pressured Trump to follow his movement, not direct it, revealing a key political vulnerability.
7. The Ethics and Risks of Releasing the Files
[17:27–21:26]
- Leonhardt raises concerns over setting a precedent for releasing Justice Department investigatory files, citing the risk of damaging unsubstantiated information becoming public.
- Khanna agrees there are risks, but argues the exceptional nature of the abuse and cover-up demands transparency.
“These survivors have been denied justice for decades… there needs to be an exception to expose all of these rich and powerful men who were either covering up the abuse, participating in it in some way.”
— Ro Khanna [18:57]
- Victims’ names will be shielded; accusations against others, even untrue, can be contested in the court of public opinion in the name of overdue justice.
8. Fears of Politicization and Safeguards
[21:29–23:16]
- Leonhardt asks if Trump’s administration might selectively release or hide information for partisan gain.
- Khanna points to safeguards: independent sources (like the Epstein estate), survivors’ lawyers, and prior visibility of the files all act as checks.
"The group that has been most shafted over decades are the survivors. And they should be front and center with how these investigations are happening."
— Ro Khanna [23:05]
9. The Path Forward: Senate Prospects and Legislative Mechanics
[23:16–24:09]
- Khanna is optimistic the bill will pass the Senate if brought to the floor, noting senators’ procedural leeway compared to the House.
10. Broader Lessons for Democrats
[24:09–29:41]
- Khanna urges Democrats to focus less on attacking Trump himself and more on acknowledging and remedying the system’s failures that fueled his rise.
- The Epstein case offers a template: unite around exposing elite corruption, address wariness of “rootless global elites,” embrace an “economic patriotism” focused on place and community.
“Democrats need to spend more time attacking a system that has betrayed forgotten Americans than simply attacking Donald Trump.”
— Ro Khanna [25:15]
- Material improvements—factories, trade schools, taxing the wealthy, and national health insurance—require building broadly inclusive coalitions, not just eking out electoral victories.
“When you start with Trump’s a hypocrite… is that really the way you’re gonna convince your Trump voter to vote for you?”
— Ro Khanna [29:15]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)
-
On the enormity of the bipartisan push:
“It was the most herculean effort to get that discharge petition through... They came out right away, ‘we’re going to primary you’... Can you imagine this? He’s treating Ghislaine Maxwell better than he’s treating Marjorie Taylor Greene.” [03:22–04:13] -
On engagement across divides:
“I wasn’t there in this quote, unquote, persuasion. It’s sort of, this is the problem. I think...with some of the thinking on our side is, okay, let’s go do the podcast three months before the election to get our message out. How about go do the podcast to have a conversation… and to learn, to listen, and to shape our thinking?” [11:14] -
On the symbolism of the Epstein scandal and MAGA sentiment:
“The pride is gone. Their jobs were shipped overseas. They see districts like mine that are succeeding. They think they built America and a governing class has abandoned them. And Trump evoked that sentiment...” [13:42] -
On the exceptionality of the Epstein case for releasing files:
“Given the horror of these crimes… on balance it’s important to get… this all out there. I don’t think… it necessarily will be enough for criminal convictions… but… I don’t think that’s the worst consequence and people will have the right to defend themselves, obviously in public opinion.” [20:25] -
On the lesson for Democrats:
“By asking people who voted for Donald Trump what they want to see changed and earning their trust… we have a much better chance of defeating Trumpism than just a frontal assault on calling Trump every name in the book.” [25:27]
Timestamps for Crucial Segments
- Trump’s Endorsement and House Dynamics: 00:49–05:43
- How Khanna Got Involved: 06:19–08:31
- Survivors’ Voices and Symbolism: 08:31–10:01
- Democratic Pushback for Media Outreach: 10:42–12:13
- MAGA Sentiment and ‘Epstein Class’: 13:03–15:40
- Political Wedge and GOP Fracture: 15:40–17:27
- Ethics of File Release: 17:27–22:00
- Safeguards Against Politicization: 22:00–23:16
- Senate Prospects: 23:16–24:09
- Broader Lessons for Democrats: 24:09–29:41
Tone and Takeaways
Khanna is earnest, thoughtful, and occasionally provocative, urging Democrats to rethink both message and strategy. The conversation uncovers the emotional undercurrents driving American politics, the power of bipartisan coalitions on issues of justice, and the enduring dangers—and opportunities—when elite corruption is laid bare. The episode balances the gravity of the Epstein case with a forward-looking rethink for national political strategy.