There’s More to Wine Than Just a Cancer Warning

Summary

Podcast Summary: "There’s More to Wine Than Just a Cancer Warning"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Opinions
• Host/Author: The New York Times Opinion
• Description: One voice, one opinion, in 10 minutes or less.
• Episode: There’s More to Wine Than Just a Cancer Warning
• Release Date: January 7, 2025

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Introduction

In the January 7, 2025 episode of "The Opinions" hosted by The New York Times Opinion team, the discussion centers around the recent Surgeon General’s advisory linking alcohol consumption to cancer. The episode delves into the complexities of alcohol-related health warnings, cultural implications, and personal narratives that highlight the nuanced relationship individuals have with alcohol, particularly wine.

Surgeon General’s Warning and Immediate Reactions

Lori Leibovich opens the episode by introducing the critical issue at hand:

“Alcohol consumption contributes to roughly 100,000 cancer cases, 20,000 deaths each year. A reminder he wants added to warning labels already on booze, beer and wine.”
—Lori Leibovich (00:54)

This statement sets the stage for the ensuing debate on the balance between public health advocacy and personal freedom.

Boris Fishman’s Perspective: A Nuanced Take on Alcohol Warnings

Boris Fishman, a novelist and wine writer, provides an in-depth critique of the Surgeon General’s recommendation. He argues that the proposed warnings are overly simplistic and fail to account for the diverse ways individuals interact with alcohol.

“Here is another very unnuanced binary solution to what feels like a very nuanced problem.”
—Boris Fishman (01:09)

Fishman highlights the cultural and personal significance of moderate alcohol consumption, particularly wine, emphasizing its role beyond mere intoxication:

“It contributes a tremendous amount of meaning to my life. But I almost never have more than a glass, maybe two, with a meal.”
—Boris Fishman (05:00)

Cultural and Economic Impacts of Alcohol Warnings

Fishman elaborates on the broader implications of the Surgeon General’s recommendation, touching upon its effects on businesses and cultural practices:

“Foot traffic falls dramatically during January... producers of wine are ripping out acres upon acres of vines.”
—Boris Fishman (03:20)

He shares personal anecdotes, such as a winemaker friend taking a hiatus and a neighbor selling off a vast wine collection, illustrating the tangible impact of shifting public attitudes toward alcohol.

The Importance of Nuance in Public Health Messaging

A central theme of Fishman’s argument is the necessity for nuanced communication from health authorities. He contends that blanket warnings do not distinguish between moderate, meaningful consumption and harmful alcohol use:

“The difference in what's wrong between a glass of wine and a bottle of bourbon is enormous.”
—Boris Fishman (06:15)

Fishman advocates for messaging that recognizes the varied purposes and cultural values associated with different alcoholic beverages.

Personal Narratives: The Emotional Connection to Wine

Fishman shares a poignant personal story that underscores the deep emotional resonance of wine:

“I smelled something that I have not smelled since I was 6 years old in my grandmother's kitchen... It was putting my nose into that glass that brought me back into that kitchen and for a nanosecond brought my grandmother back to life.”
—Boris Fishman (07:10)

This narrative highlights how wine serves as a vessel for cherished memories and meaningful experiences, aspects that rigid health warnings might overlook.

The Balance Between Protection and Preservation of Meaningful Experiences

In his closing remarks, Fishman emphasizes the importance of preserving the magical and meaningful aspects of life that moderate alcohol consumption can facilitate:

“There is so much beauty and meaning in consuming a small amount of wine that to have that big-footed by threats and warnings like the ones we're seeing now lacks so much nuance.”
—Boris Fishman (08:00)

He urges listeners to reflect on what their glass of wine represents in their lives, advocating for a balanced approach that protects health without eroding the cultural and emotional fabric intertwined with alcohol consumption.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with acknowledgment of the production team and a brief note on where listeners can follow the show. The discussion encapsulates the tension between public health initiatives and personal freedoms, urging a more thoughtful and individualized approach to alcohol-related warnings.

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Notable Quotes:

• Lori Leibovich (00:54): “Alcohol consumption contributes to roughly 100,000 cancer cases, 20,000 deaths each year...”
• Boris Fishman (01:09): “Here is another very unnuanced binary solution to what feels like a very nuanced problem.”
• Boris Fishman (05:00): “It contributes a tremendous amount of meaning to my life...”
• Boris Fishman (06:15): “The difference in what's wrong between a glass of wine and a bottle of bourbon is enormous.”
• Boris Fishman (07:10): “I smelled something that I have not smelled since I was 6 years old in my grandmother's kitchen...”
• Boris Fishman (08:00): “There is so much beauty and meaning in consuming a small amount of wine...”

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This summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of the discussions surrounding alcohol consumption, health warnings, and the preservation of meaningful cultural practices.

Transcript

[Lori Leibovich]

Hi, this is Lori Leibovich, editor of well at the New York Times. Everything that our readers get when they dig into a well article has been vetted. Our reporters are consulting experts doing the research so that you can make great decisions about your physical health and your mental health. We take our reporting extra seriously because we know New York Times subscribers are counting on us. If you already subscribe, thank you. If you'd like to subscribe, go to nytimes.com subscribe this is the Opinions, a.

[Unknown Host]

Show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it.

[Lori Leibovich]

A warning for drinkers from America's top doctor.

[Boris Fishman]

There is a causal link between alcohol and seven types of cancer.

[Lori Leibovich]

Alcohol consumption contributes to roughly 100,000 cancer cases, 20,000 deaths each year. A reminder he wants added to warning labels already on booze, beer and wine.

[Boris Fishman]

So I heard this news last week and I thought to myself, here is another very unnuanced binary solution to what feels like a very nuanced problem. My name is Boris Fishman and I am primarily a novelist. But over the last couple of years, I have also found myself writing more and more about wine. So late last week, the surgeon general issued a recommendation that cancer warnings be applied to all alcohol sales in this country, which is something that I believe Congress must act on first. But the recommendation itself is weighty and consequential. So the news wasn't a total surprise because anecdotally this has been happening for a while. Reports have been coming out for some time saying that alcohol is bad in any amount. And the these findings have real consequences. You know, we had dry January. Now there's also sober October, I'm sure parched March, maybe next, then modest August. And as long as you can find a rhyme for the month, I'm sure it'll fall in line. But more seriously, little by little, the tide against alcohol has grown. Foot traffic falls dramatically during January and you know, producers of wine are ripping out acres upon acres of vines. I have a dear friend, an exceptionally talented winemaker who is taking two years off the work without income because he no longer sees the demand. I have a neighbor in the next town over from where I live who had a 6,500 bottle cellar which was, you know, the envy of everyone in a 50 mile radius. And he has made the decision to stop drinking and sell off most of it. So to me, these feel like very consequential outcomes, having to do not only with the way people live and enjoy themselves, but with business, with the kind of culture we have, the kind of products we have in our marketplace, and what we consume for both meaning and joy. So I really want to emphasize this. If somebody has an alcohol dependency, then I couldn't be more of a supporter of their not participating. And so I'm no one to tell anybody else that they should imbibe or should imbibe this much or this little. It just feels like something really important is getting lost in the conversation, which is that the difference in what's wrong between a glass of wine and a bottle of bourbon is enormous. And if the Surgeon general, if the medical establishment is going to communicate with consumers, it must find more nuanced ways of doing so, because the cultural values of consuming some beverages are very different from others, as are the purposes of most of the people who do it. Of course, the government has a responsibility to help consumers avoid harm. No one here is arguing that there should be no warnings, that there should be no help, there should be no education. I'm just saying that this doesn't feel like the solution. Just to speak of myself personally, I write about wine. Professionally, I am obsessed with wine. It contributes a tremendous amount of meaning to my life. But I almost never have more than a glass, maybe two, with a meal. Because the purpose it serves for me has nothing to do with tipsiness or becoming drunk or becoming looser or anything like that. It has to do with participating in an incredibly rich tradition instead of sensory, olfactory, psychological, even experiences that transport me to other places and times and make me feel things that so few other things do. I'm here to say that there is so much beauty and meaning in consuming a small amount of wine that to have that big footed by threats and warnings like the ones we're seeing now, that lacks so much nuance is really disappointing and frustrating because it's going to drive so many people away from a truly magical experience. Last year, my wife and I took our older child, our daughter, to Istanbul. And while we were there, we wandered into a wine bar called Wayana, which focuses on indigenous Turkish grapes. And there was one glass in particular from a Turkish varietal called Kalacik Karasi, if I'm saying it correctly, which makes light bodied, red fruited wine sometimes compared to Pinot Noir. I put my nose into that glass of wine and I smelled something that I have not smelled since I was 6 years old in my grandmother's kitchen in Soviet Minsk, which is where I was born. With me sitting at the kitchen table in that kitchen that I hadn't thought of in close to 40 years at this point, the sunlight streaming through the window in such and such a way. And there was my grandmother, now 20 years dead at the stove, and the apron that she always wore when she cooked. More than anything, it was the same exact smell. And it was putting my nose into that glass that brought me back into that kitchen and for a nanosecond brought my grandmother back to life. With all respect to science, I don't care what warnings go on, what bottles. This is an experience that I never want to do without. I was on an airplane yesterday and passing the business class cabin and there was a gentleman there wearing a T shirt that said, but does it scale? There's nothing about wine that scales, and I think that is such an important experience to embrace and to have, particularly in our lives right now when everything is supposed to be repeatable and predictable and programmable. We are not programmable creatures. And every time I have a glass of wine, I'm reminded of that. What I would love for people to keep in mind is that it's really not about wine. It's about what you value in life and what creates meaning and how perfectible we are versus how fallible we are, and whether we sometimes can draw meaning and import as human beings from something that is otherwise, perhaps technically fallible. I just want people to pause and to think about this as just one example out of many in a life that risks becoming stripped of a certain kind of magic because we're trying to protect ourselves out of existence. I want you to think about what your glass of wine is and advocate for that and keep that alive in your lives. Because that flame is precious and there are certain things in our modern existence that really threaten it.

[Unknown Host]

If you like this show, follow it on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. This show is produced by Derek Arthur, Sophia Alvarez Boyd, Vishaka Durba, Phoebe Lett, Christina Samulewski and Gillian Weinberger. It's edited by Kari Pitkin, Alison Bruzek and Annie Rose Strasser. Engineering, mixing and original music by Isaac Jones, sonia Herrero, Pat McCusker, Carol Saburo and Afim Shapiro. Additional music by Amin Sohota. The Fact Check team is Kate Sinclair, Mary, Marge Laquer, and Michelle Harris. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta, Christina Samulewski and Adrian Rivera. The executive producer of Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose, Dresser.