They Saved Taxpayers Billions. Trump Fired Them Anyway.

Summary

Podcast Summary: "They Saved Taxpayers Billions. Trump Fired Them Anyway."

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Opinions
• Host/Author: The New York Times Opinion
• Description: You've heard the news, here's what to make of it.
• Episode: They Saved Taxpayers Billions. Trump Fired Them Anyway.
• Release Date: March 13, 2025

---

Introduction

In the March 13, 2025 episode of The Opinions, hosted by The New York Times Opinion, the discussion centers around former President Donald Trump's controversial decision to fire a significant number of Inspectors General (IGs) shortly after his inauguration. Titled "They Saved Taxpayers Billions. Trump Fired Them Anyway," the episode delves into the roles of these watchdogs, the implications of their dismissal, and the broader impact on government accountability.

Background: The Role of Inspectors General

Francesca Trianni, a video journalist for Times Opinion, provides an overview of Inspectors General, highlighting their nonpartisan nature and their crucial role in maintaining government transparency. Trianni explains, “Inspectors General are watchdogs for the government. In our interviews, we heard so many different types of cases that inspectors General investigated” (04:10).

Paul Martin further clarifies their functions, stating, “Inspector generals really are the internal affairs office at each government agency. We conduct audits and we conduct investigations. We look for fraud, we look for misconduct, we look for inefficiencies” (03:44).

Event: Firing of the Inspectors General

President Trump, upon taking office, made swift executive moves to fire over a dozen Inspectors General. Francesca Trianni recounts that Trump’s administration sent out terse two-sentence termination emails to the IGs, often delivered at inconvenient times. For instance, “Most of them received this email on a Friday night. They were watching TV with their spouse. They were out for dinner. One of them was coming out of a taxi” (02:08).

The termination notices were abrupt and lacked detailed explanations. A sample termination email read:

“Dear Christy, Dear Larry Dear Hannibal, on behalf of President Donald J. Trump, I'm writing to inform you that due to changing priorities that your position as Inspector General... is terminated, effective immediately” (02:30).

Insights from Former Inspectors General

Seven former IGs shared their experiences and perspectives in interviews conducted by Times Opinion Video. They described the IGs’ responsibilities, including high-stakes investigations into severe crimes and governmental inefficiencies. For example, Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt detailed an investigation:

“We got a tip that a woman veteran was getting full disability compensation because she claimed she didn't have any use of her hand. We sent two undercover agents into Disney World... and it's all being recorded on the camera in the coffee cup” (04:30).

Larry Turner emphasized the financial impact, noting that IGs have saved taxpayers a substantial amount:

“75 billion is what we've saved a taxpayer” (08:07).

Impact of the Firings

The dismissal of IGs has raised significant concerns about the future of government accountability. Francesca Trianni highlights the IGs' fears post-termination:

“The big deal here is what happens after you fire the watchdogs, what happens after you fire the folks who are responsible for ensuring transparency in government” (08:22).

Larry Turner spoke about the chilling effect of the firings:

“The message is sent that if you do the work that you're intended to do, and it's not popular, that you'll be punished” (08:54).

Rob Storch warned of the broader implications:

“When all measures of accountability... when those checks and balances start to fail, that to me, would send off alarm bells” (09:04).

Hannibal expressed a dire view on the state of democracy:

“Our democracy is not even in danger, is no longer a democracy. When people don't have the freedom to speak truth to power” (09:20).

Comparison with Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE)

The episode contrasts the traditional role of IGs with the newly established Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), launched by Trump in collaboration with Elon Musk. Initially, the former IGs were optimistic about DOGE’s potential. Hannibal remarked:

“My first reaction when I heard of Doge, I was like, oh, this is not a bad thing at all. This is exactly what we do as a community” (05:44).

However, frustrations quickly arose as DOGE failed to deliver on promises of collaboration. Hannibal noted, “I reached out to Doge on four different occasions” (06:12), and Larry Turner added, “We were excited to be able to meet with them. That never happened” (06:17).

Francesca Trianni pointed out a fundamental difference between DOGE and IGs:

“The inspectors general have this very unique dual reporting relationship in government. They report both to Congress and to the head of the agency. DOGE doesn't have that sort of accountability right now” (06:25).

Financial Claims and Realities

Trump and Musk asserted that DOGE would uncover massive amounts of squandered taxpayer money. During the podcast, they claimed an ambitious target:

“To get a trillion dollars out of the deficit” (07:22).

However, the former IGs were skeptical. Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt questioned the feasibility:

“I don't think there's a trillion dollars in fraud in the federal government” (07:35).

Paul Martin concurred:

“Is there bloat? Is there ineffectiveness? Yes. But to think that there's a trillion dollars worth of fraud... I just don't think is realistic” (07:40).

In contrast, the IGs highlighted their tangible achievements. Larry Turner mentioned saving at least $14.5 billion, while Rob Storch specified over $10 billion, and Greenblatt added $30 billion (08:07-08:15).

Legal and Future Developments

In response to their dismissals, eight former Inspectors General have filed lawsuits against the Trump administration seeking reinstatement. Francesca Trianni reported:

“Eight of the former inspectors general have sued the Trump administration to try to get their jobs back. So far, a judge has refused to immediately reinstate them, but their case is expected to be heard at the end of the month” (09:36).

This legal battle underscores the contentious nature of the firings and the ongoing struggle for governmental oversight and accountability.

Conclusion

The episode "They Saved Taxpayers Billions. Trump Fired Them Anyway." provides a comprehensive examination of the critical role Inspectors General play in safeguarding government integrity and ensuring fiscal responsibility. Through insightful interviews and detailed accounts, the discussion highlights the alarming implications of their sudden dismissal, questioning the future of governmental oversight under the Trump administration. The contrasting efficacy and accountability between traditional IGs and the newly formed DOGE further accentuate concerns about the administration's commitment to transparency and effective governance.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Francesca Trianni (04:10): “Inspectors General are watchdogs for the government...”
• Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt (04:30): “We got a tip that a woman veteran was getting full disability compensation...”
• Larry Turner (08:07): “75 billion is what we've saved a taxpayer.”
• Hannibal (09:20): “Our democracy is not even in danger, is no longer a democracy...”

Key Timestamps:

• 00:36 - Host introduction of the episode.
• 01:14 - Paul Martin discusses Trump's executive moves.
• 03:00 - Examples of termination emails sent to IGs.
• 07:22 - Discussion on Trump's financial claims.
• 09:36 - Legal actions by former IGs.

Transcript

[Advertiser]

You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. Join the 3.5 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com NYT just go to indeed.com NYT right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed indeed.com NYT terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[Host]

This is the Opinions, a show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times Opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it.

[Francesca Trianni]

My name is Francesca Trianni. I'm a video journalist for Times Opinion. I've been an investigative reporter and a filmmaker for almost a decade now. President Trump campaigned on increasing efficiency and rooting out fraud and abuse in government. And four days after taking office, he fired more than a dozen watchdogs whose job was exactly that.

[Paul Martin]

Over the weekend, President Trump continued his flurry of executive moves. He fired at least 15 inspectors general.

[Rob Storch]

Even though federal law requires he give.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

Congress a 30 day notice.

[Francesca Trianni]

When I first heard of the inspectors general being fired, I just wanted to know more about who these people were. Most of the IGs are nonpartisan and they've kept their jobs through different administrations. Now that they're out of a job, they filed a complaint against the government and against the President, hoping to be reinstated. So at the end of February, Times Opinion Video sat down with seven inspectors general who were fired by the Trump administration. To get a better sense of what.

[Paul Martin]

Happened, I'm Paul Martin.

[Hannibal]

I'm Hannibal. Mike Weir.

[Rob Storch]

My name's Rob Storch.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt, Christy Grimm.

[Francesca Trianni]

I'm Larry Turner. Each of them was sent a two sentence email from the Office of Presidential Personnel entitled White House Notification. Most of them received this email on a Friday night. They were watching TV with their spouse. They were out for dinner. One of them was coming out of a tac.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

Dear Christy, Dear Larry Dear Hannibal, on behalf of President Donald J. Trump, I'm.

[Hannibal]

Writing to inform you that due to.

[Paul Martin]

Changing priorities that your position as Inspector.

[Rob Storch]

General Inspector General Inspector General Inspector General of Department of Defense at the United.

[Paul Martin]

States Agency for International Development of the.

[Hannibal]

Small Business Administration of the United States.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

Department of Labor, of Department of Veterans.

[Larry Turner]

Affairs, Department of Health and Human Services.

[Rob Storch]

Department of Interior is terminated.

[Hannibal]

Is terminated. Terminated, effective immediately.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

Thanks for Your service.

[Francesca Trianni]

Like most people, I was not familiar with exactly what they do for the government. I think most of our readers may not be familiar with who inspectors general are.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

Even my family, you know, didn't really have an idea of what I do, what that entails. They just don't know the breadth and extent of the work we do. In fact, sometimes I would meet some VA employees and I would say, I'm the inspector General. And they said, what's that? What inspector generals have done for almost 50 years is not only save taxpayers billions and billions of dollars, but they also. And this, I think, is as important, they help make the agencies better.

[Paul Martin]

Inspector generals really are the internal affairs office at each government agency. We conduct audits and we conduct investigations. We look for fraud, we look for misconduct, we look for inefficiencies. And we're the in house canary in the coal mine that can alert the agency that, hey, these intentions you had for this program are not being achieved or things are going horribly wrong.

[Francesca Trianni]

Inspectors General are watchdogs for the government. In our interviews, we heard so many different types of cases that inspectors General investigated.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

So it's everything from murders to threats to sexual assaults to drug diversion, crimes.

[Larry Turner]

Committed against foster care programs, fraud that involved Covid supplies.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

We got a tip that a woman veteran was getting full disability compensation because she claimed she didn't have any use of her hand. And we got a tip that that was not true. And we knew she was going to Disney World with her children. So we sent two undercover agents into Disney World and we could put cameras in all sorts of places. So the two agents had a camera inside a Starbucks coffee cup. They found her at Disney World and went up to her and said, ma'am, could you please take a picture of us? And so they gave the woman their iPhone and. And she was using her hands to put it in different places. And it's all being recorded on the camera in the coffee cup.

[Francesca Trianni]

The mission for efficiency should sound familiar to all of us. Trump launched the Department of Government Efficiency with Elon Musk. I wanted to ask the inspectors general what they thought about Doge when they first heard about it.

[Rob Storch]

The word I would use to describe Doge is ambitious, abrupt, mysterious, unknown, confusion, unprecedented, aggressive.

[Francesca Trianni]

And initially, they were open to it.

[Hannibal]

My first reaction when I heard of Doge, I was like, oh, this is not a bad thing at all. This is exactly what we do as a community.

[Rob Storch]

Efficiency is literally in our name. And I said, well, this is great. These are folks that we can work with.

[Hannibal]

I reached out to Doge on four different occasions.

[Larry Turner]

We were excited to be able to meet with them. That never happened.

[Hannibal]

Never got a call back.

[Francesca Trianni]

The main difference between DOGE and the inspectors general, according to my reporting, is accountability. The inspectors general have this very unique dual reporting relationship in government. They report both to Congress and to the head of the agency. That means that they can truly be independent. They can tell the head of the agency this government is not run effectively because they also report to Congress. DOGE doesn't have that right. DOGE doesn't have that sort of accountability right now than we know of. In an interview with Sean Hannity, Trump and Musk stated that they were going to find massive amounts of taxpayer money that has been squandered away.

[Paul Martin]

If you had to put a number on it.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

How much do you think you've identified waste, fraud, abuse, corruption at this point?

[Host]

Well, the overall goal is to try.

[Rob Storch]

To get a trillion dollars out of the deficit.

[Francesca Trianni]

We asked the inspectors general, can Elon Musk find a trillion dollars worth of fraud?

[Larry Turner]

Trillion dollars is a lot of money.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

I don't think there's a trillion dollars in fraud in the federal government.

[Paul Martin]

Is there bloat? Is there ineffectiveness? Is there inefficiency? Absolutely.

[Rob Storch]

There's no question that there's a lot of fat to trim in the federal government.

[Paul Martin]

But to think that there's a trillion dollars worth of fraud, and I'm talking criminal fraud, in any government organization, I just don't think is realistic.

[Francesca Trianni]

And in comparison, inspectors general have saved American taxpayers a ton of money. The numbers they told us are incredible.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

75 billion is what we've saved a taxpayer.

[Rob Storch]

Well over $10 billion, I think. $10.8 billion.

[Michael J. Missile Mark Lee Greenblatt]

30 billion.

[Hannibal]

Hard dollars.

[Larry Turner]

14 and a half billion dollars at least.

[Francesca Trianni]

The big deal here is what happens after you fire the watchdogs, what happens after you fire the folks who are responsible for ensuring transparency in government? In our interviews, that's what the IGs were worried about. Who will be appointed after us? Will they have independence? Will they be able to issue tough reports without being afraid of being fired the next day?

[Larry Turner]

The firings have created a real chilling effect. And the message is sent that if you do the work that you're intended to do, and it's not popular, that you'll be punished.

[Rob Storch]

When all measures of accountability, when those checks and balances that the founders put in throughout our structure of government, when those checks and balances start to fail, that to me, would send off alarm bells.

[Hannibal]

Our democracy is not even in danger, is no longer a democracy. When people don't have the freedom to speak truth to power.

[Francesca Trianni]

Eight of the former inspectors general have sued the Trump administration to try to get their jobs back. So far, a judge has refused to immediately reinstate them, but their case is expected to be heard at the end of the month.

[Host]

If you like this show, follow it on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. This show is produced by Derek Arthur, Sophia Alvarez Boyd, Vishaka Durba, Phoebe Lett, Christina Samulewski and Gillian Weinberger. It's edited by Kari Pitkin, Alison Bruzek and Annie Rose Strasser. Engineering, mixing and original music by Isaac Jones, sonia Herrero, Pat McCusker, Carol Saburo and Afim Shapiro. Additional music by Amin Sohota. The Fact Check team is Kate Sinclair, Mary, Marge Locker, and Michelle Harris. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta, Christina Samulewski, and Adrian Rivera. The executive producer of Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Dresser.