Thin, White and Right: The Ideal Christian Woman

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Thin, White and Right: The Ideal Christian Woman"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Opinions
• Host/Author: The New York Times Opinion
• Description: You've heard the news, here's what to make of it.
• Episode: Thin, White and Right: The Ideal Christian Woman
• Release Date: July 30, 2025

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Introduction

In the July 30, 2025 episode of The Opinions, hosted by The New York Times Opinion section, Meher Ahmad and Jessica Gross delve into the intricate interplay between thinness, conservative Christian values, and contemporary diet culture. Titled "Thin, White and Right: The Ideal Christian Woman," the episode explores how body image has become a battleground intertwining health, morality, and politics, particularly within right-leaning Christian influencer spaces.

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The Resurgence of Thinness Messaging in Conservative Circles

Meher Ahmad initiates the conversation by highlighting a "resurgence in explicit be thin messaging and culture." She notes that with phenomena like the Ozempic boom, there's increased body shaming of actresses such as Sydney Sweeney, and red carpets are dominated by increasingly thinner actors and actresses. Ahmad raises a critical question: "When everything is political and we're more divided than ever, should the size and shape of our bodies be any different?" This sets the stage for understanding why the right seems fixated on promoting thinness among women.

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Key Influencers and Their Messages

Jessica Gross identifies several prominent figures driving this conservative thinness narrative:

• Alex Clark: A wellness influencer and podcaster who emphasizes a disciplined lifestyle. At the Young Women's Leadership Summit, Clark stated: "Less Prozac, more protein, less burnout, more babies, less feminism, more femininity. And by contrast, liberals are TikTok activists with five shades of autism, panic attacks, and a ring light." (02:47)

• Liv Schmidt: Known for her content on "Skinny Talk" and "Skinny Solutions for Daily Life," Schmidt promotes the idea that "being skinny is a lifestyle, not a diet," aligning herself with conservative publications like Evie magazine.

• Ballerina Farm: A tradwife influencer who shares glimpses of her daily life focused on a meat-heavy, protein-rich diet, reinforcing traditional gender roles.

These influencers collectively advocate for a narrow ideal of womanhood that intertwines physical appearance with behavioral expectations, reinforcing traditional conservative values.

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The Religious and Moral Framing of Diet Culture

Gross delves into the symbiotic relationship between diet culture and Christianity. She references Rick Warren's bestseller, The Daniel Plan, which ties healthy living to spiritual duty: "Satan does not want you to living a healthy life because that honors God." (06:XX) This rhetoric positions overeating or gluttony as sins, suggesting that deviating from an "appropriate body size" is morally reprehensible.

Moreover, Gross points out that this moral framing extends beyond religious boundaries, noting that even secular wellness narratives often demonize unhealthy eating with terms like "toxins" and "morally abhorrent." However, the overt language of sin and purity in religious contexts adds a layer of moral judgment absent in secular discourse.

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Comparison to Body Positivity and Left-Leaning Approaches

Ahmad contrasts the conservative thinness narrative with the body positivity movement, which peaked a decade ago. The body positivity movement advocated that weight does not equate to health and that one can be fashionable without adhering to traditional size norms. However, Gross argues that body positivity was never truly mainstream and often remained "liberal coded."

She observes that the current wellness movement, co-opting aspects of body positivity, has re-linked health closely with thinness, thus undermining the original inclusive intent. Ahmad further notes that while both the left and right may promote thinness, the conservative approach packages it with clear moral and behavioral directives, offering a more structured vision compared to what she describes as the left's "chaotic, disarray of ideals."

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The Impact on Women's Self-Image and Societal Expectations

The episode underscores the real-world consequences of these intertwined narratives. Gross cites studies indicating that overweight women face discrimination, earn less, and are treated poorly in public settings. This societal bias is perpetuated by media portrayals that equate thinness with virtue and success, deeply affecting women's self-esteem and societal roles.

Gross shares her personal struggle with diet culture, humorously likening her obsession with thinness to being "ruined" by it. She expresses concern for younger generations inundated with images of extreme thinness, emphasizing the need for skepticism and healthier self-perception.

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The Political and Cultural Vision Underpinning Conservative Diet Culture

Meher Ahmad draws a parallel between the clarity of conservative cultural visions and their appeal, especially in contrast to the left. She illustrates the traditional conservative ideal: "White picket fences, a husband and wife with their kids, the wife is thin, and they go to church." This clear, albeit narrow, vision provides a sense of belonging and purpose that she argues is missing from the left's more fluid identity.

Gross concurs, noting that conservatives have effectively capitalized on providing a "clear message of what to do, who to be, what to look like, what America means." This clarity fosters a strong cultural identity that attracts those seeking definitive guidelines in a complex world, unlike the left, which she perceives as lacking a unified or easily identifiable counterpart to figures like Joe Rogan.

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Personal Experiences and Broader Implications

A poignant moment in the conversation involves Ahmad recounting her experience with "Ramadan boot camps" in Pakistan, where fasting practices were co-opted for aggressive weight loss regimes. She describes the grueling regimen and the moral framing behind it: "Fasting is about self-restraint and accessing higher thoughts," which mirrors the contemporary Christian diet influencers’ blending of spiritual discipline with physical appearance.

Gross reflects on her own encounters with diet culture, expressing empathy and understanding for its appeal while critiquing its coercive and controlling nature. She likens participation in high-intensity workouts like Orange Theory to being in a cult, highlighting how these environments provide mental respite yet reinforce restrictive behavioral norms.

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Conclusion and Insights

"Thin, White and Right: The Ideal Christian Woman" offers a critical examination of how conservative Christian influencers are shaping contemporary diet culture by embedding thinness within a framework of morality, religion, and traditional gender roles. Through insightful dialogues and personal anecdotes, Ahmad and Gross illuminate the pervasive impact of these narratives on women's self-image and societal expectations.

The episode underscores the strategic clarity of conservative messaging in providing a cohesive cultural vision, contrasting it with the perceived disorganization of left-leaning movements. As diet and body image continue to intersect with politics and religion, the conversation invites listeners to reflect on the broader implications for gender roles, personal autonomy, and mental health in today's polarized society.

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Notable Quotes:

• Alex Clark: "Less Prozac, more protein, less burnout, more babies, less feminism, more femininity. And by contrast, liberals are TikTok activists with five shades of autism, panic attacks, and a ring light." (02:47)
• Meher Ahmad: "Faith can give you a moral set of guidelines to navigate a very complicated world." (07:39)
• Jessica Gross: "If you step off this path, that is, you know, akin to consorting with the devil." (14:46)

Transcript

[Meher Ahmad]

The New York Times app has all this stuff that you may not have seen.

[Jessica Gross]

The way the tabs are at the top with all of the different sections.

[Meher Ahmad]

I can immediately navigate to something that matches what I'm feeling.

[Jessica Gross]

I go to games always doing the mini, doing the wordle. I loved how much content it exposed me to things that I never would have thought to turn to a news app for this app is essential.

[Podcast Host]

The New York Times app. All of the Times all in one place. Download it now at nytimes.com app this is the Opinions, a show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it.

[Meher Ahmad]

I'm Meher Ahmad, an editor in the New York Times Opinion section. There's been a resurgence in explicit be thin messaging and culture. With the Ozempic boom, we see the body shaming of actresses like Sydney Sweeney and red carpets that were already filled with thin actors, actresses becoming even thinner. On the right, there's been a focus on body size that's sort of been bundled up not just with health and wellness, but with religion, morals and politics. And so when everything is political and we're more divided than ever, should the size and shape of our bodies be any different? I'm here today with opinion writer Jessica Gross to understand why the right is obsessed with thinness and why that message is winning over women. Jessica kind of wanted to start first by asking you what the messaging on diet and thinness coming from the Christian influencer spaces is. What do you see there?

[Jessica Gross]

So it's really encapsulated by some things that the wellness influencer Alex Clark said at the Young Women's Leadership Summit. Look around this room. Let's just be honest. It's never been harder to be a conservative. You are in this room and you are witnessing a cultural revolution. We've got the girls who lift weights, eat clean, have their hormones balanced, have their lives together. Less Prozac, more protein, less burnout, more babies, less feminism, more femininity. And by contrast, liberals are TikTok activists with five shades of autism, panic attacks, and a ring light. So it's really defining what is normal. I'm doing air quotes which the listeners can't see normal as a very narrow ideal of womanhood. And it's all tied up with not just body size but also behavior.

[Meher Ahmad]

I mean, even in that quote that you quoted, she's sort of describing a foil to what she describes as like a liberal body type. How much of this is like a reaction to Like a left version of objectives. And what even is that?

[Jessica Gross]

So I think it's a reaction to the body positivity movement, which I would say peaked about 10 years ago. And it was the idea that weight is not tied directly to health and that you can be healthy and not real thin. You would see models who were not modeled size on Runway. It was never predominant. There was like one and brands were more kind of bullied into making more s inclusive lines. So often if you are above a straight size, which depending on the brand I think is, you know, 12, 14, it was very hard to find fashionable clothes. And so there was a movement to be more inclusive and recognize the fact that the average American woman is not a sample size. And so I would say that was never the only thing that was mainstream. I mean, I remember at the time parents of teenage girls were like, yeah, the body positivity movement has not reached this middle school. So I don't ever think that it was dominant. And it wasn't just liberals, but I think it was liberal coded.

[Meher Ahmad]

And who are some of the big names, specifically in the like Christian diet trend or conservative women diet trend? Who are the voices that you're seeing?

[Jessica Gross]

So Alex Clark, who is a podcaster, a wellness influencer who we already mentioned. Then Liv Schmidt, who was associated with this term Skinny Talk, Skinny Solutions for Daily Life is today's video while I get ready. Because being skinny is a lifestyle, not a diet. I don't think she talks about politics too much, but she has appeared in conservative magazines like Evie, which is a magazine geared towards conservative young women. And then folks like Ballerina Farm, who's a tradwife influencer. I am going to show you what my day looked like today. I wake up Nurse Floor Jo. Then we get the kids fed and ready for school, which is in a.

[Meher Ahmad]

Little schoolhouse we have here on the farm.

[Jessica Gross]

I know they sell products from their store that are emphasizing a meat heavy lifestyle as healthy, which, you know, is all again, it is part of mainstream culture. I mean, you can't throw a rock without hearing somebody talking about protein, which I've also written about before, but it's just putting the conservative gloss on it.

[Meher Ahmad]

What about the messaging is putting the conservative gloss? Because I think, as you said, a lot of this feels familiar territory and like, especially the fixation on protein. I mean, Khloe Kardashian came out with a protein popcorn, which, like, what is that?

[Jessica Gross]

But I was.

[Meher Ahmad]

I'm curious about how it overlaps with Christianity in particular and like, what makes these influencers pair Diet cultures with more of like a religious or moral tint.

[Jessica Gross]

So there's long been a history of. There's a whole sort of Christian publishing universe. Right. And they've long tried to take things that are popular in the mainstream and put their own spin on it. And I went back and I read a book that was a bestseller about 10 years ago written by the megachurch pastor Rick Warren. The book is called the Daniel Plan and it features a blurb from Dr. Oz. So it's sort of tied in with our current administration. And the book includes things like Satan does not want you to living a healthy life because that honors God. And why should God heal you of an obesity related illness if you have no intention of changing the choices that led to it? So there's a distinct idea that overeating or gluttony, which is, you know, one of the seven deadly sins, is immoral. And if your body size is not whatever society thinks is an appropriate body size, that is a sin. And then there's a whole thing which really dovetails into the Maha movement about the purity of food. And that also can be secular. You know, you hear tons of people who are not religious talk about toxins and, you know, eating things that are bad for your body and how that is morally abhorrent. But I think that there's a sort of direct language of sort of sin gluttony. And you see it all the time with creators on social media who directly talk about it that way, that overeating is sinful, gluttonous, bad, morally impure.

[Meher Ahmad]

No diet can give you the spirit of self control. Only God can do that.

[Jessica Gross]

And obviously these ideas go back thousands of years.

[Meher Ahmad]

And the other fruits of the spirit in Galatians 22, 23 are joy, peace, faithfulness. We can have all of that in this fitness journey if we're doing it in God and through the power of the Holy Spirit. And that is my prayer for you today.

[Jessica Gross]

Okay, these are very old ideas that are just, you know, re consistently repackaged for a modern value system.

[Meher Ahmad]

I mean, that's one thing I'm interested in with these particular influencers is like the desire for, you know, the way that they look or how they like, behave should be in line with certain values that are politically aligned with the conservative movement. How do you see the political aspect of it pairing with the way that these women are presenting themselves physically, online and in the world?

[Jessica Gross]

I mean, it's all traditional gender roles, right? I mean, that litany of things that Alex Clark listed, it's like marriage, babies, fitness, protein, it's all one very narrow image. And anyone who is not conforming to that image is sort of outside the circle. And it's also in a moment where we do see fewer female leaders across the board, I would say Democrats and Republicans. And so the idea that women should be physically smaller goes along with the idea that they're not going to be the ones out front taking up space.

[Meher Ahmad]

Yeah, I mean, you touched on this. But like in a lot of ways the desire to be thin is just so ubiquitous in time and millennia, but also on all sides of the political spectrum. You know, I'm curious about how you see the left version of like aspiring to thinness, especially in this current moment, and how that compares to this more conservative value system. Like are they unique in promoting thinness, these conservative influencers, or are they just part of the the general environment right now, which is kind of like okay with being unabashedly pro skinny?

[Jessica Gross]

Yeah, I mean they're just co opting what's already in the water. And I think what happened with the body positivity movement is it got co opted by the wellness movement. And so people stopped using language like, oh, I'm doing this to be thin, I'm doing this to be healthy.

[Meher Ahmad]

Here is a glimpse into everything I ate today to just fuel my body and feel my best as someone who loves to cook and eat healthy and all the good things. It also believes in balance and feeling good from the inside out. So let's just get into it.

[Jessica Gross]

But healthy was always synonymous with thinness in the mainstream. And also it's very white. Um, I think that there's lots of cultures who are not so obsessed with thinness, but we're all sort of reacting to the mainstream dominant public messaging that we're all getting. And you know, there's lots of studies that show, you know, people who are overweight, and especially women who are overweight are discriminated against, they earn less money, they are treated more poorly in public. Like there. It's not just this media creation fixation. It's like it has real world consequences.

[Meher Ahmad]

One thing that I noticed about a lot of these Christian diet influencers is that they sort of think that Ozempic is a cheater's way to lose weight, that the real true way to lose weight is by hard work and self control. Which is interesting because I think now as Ozempic has become more ubiquitous and accessible to a lot of people, that there's more of an acceptance of taking it as a drug. But they almost are, like, counter to that mainstream idea that, like, taking Ozempic is, like, a normal thing, just like taking an antidepressant would be a normal thing. So I'm curious what you make of the fact that they, a lot of these Christian influencers kind of decry these drugs or think they're a sign of, like, moral failure almost?

[Jessica Gross]

Well, I mean, I think it's ultimately they want people to be obsessed with these ideas and never stop thinking about them. And one thing that a lot of people on Ozempic say is that it gets rid of the food noise, so they're just not preoccupied by eating in the same way that they were before and that it gives them a great deal of freedom. So I think it is, again, about control. It's about preoccupation. It's about martyrdom. Unless you're punishing yourself, it's not worthy or worth it.

[Meher Ahmad]

Yeah, I mean, I find the, like, religiosity of all of this really fascinating. One thing that might be relevant to this is that when I was a foreign correspondent, I was based in Pakistan, which is a predominantly Muslim country. And during the month of Ramadan, they don't drink water or eat or even, like, chew gum or anything like that between sunup to sundown. And I ended up reporting a piece when I was there about this phenomenon of Ramadan boot camps, where women would, like, channel the fasting, religious kind of fervor of Ramadan and turn it into, like, a weight loss goal. So I did it. I did the boot camp, and it was. It was grueling. It was actually really, really tough because, first of all, I was in Karachi at this time Ramadan, which moves with the lunar calendar. Back then, it was in the summer, so it was like 110 degrees on an average day. We would do an hour long HIIT workout right before we broke our fast. So that meant that I would do burpees and all this stuff and then not drink water afterwards, which was really difficult. But a lot of the boot camp's focus was on self restraint. And, you know, the month of Ramadan, you're fasting because you're trying to access higher thoughts and you're thinking of people who don't have food. And there's all these, like, purpose kind of morals behind why you're doing this. And it's to develop empathy and, you know, feel closer to God. And they kind of took all of that and then applied it to weight loss. And I found it, like, both sad, but it also made sense to me. That that would like, of course, happen, you know, but when I walked away from the experience, which, by the way, in the process of which I lost like an unhealthy amount of weight in a very short amount of time.

[Jessica Gross]

I'm sure you did.

[Meher Ahmad]

When I walked away from that experience, I also found that the appeal of religion itself in a lot of ways is that it gives you a moral set of guidelines to navigate a very complicated world. And when I look at these Christian diet influencers, in a way, the appeal to me is like, totally apparent because especially when it comes to, I mean, all things. But with food, American food culture is so confusing. There's so many options. What you're meant to eat or, like, what powders you should be taking, like, changes day by day, week by week. And there's so much decision making that has to go into everything and, like, the guidance on what you should eat, especially with Maha, you know, becoming more part of our culture, there's a inherent, like, distrust of a lot of information. And having just like a clear set of guidelines based in something like religion almost feels like a relief. Like, I, like, sometimes I'm envious. It's like I wish I believed in something that just told me how to live my life. So it's interesting seeing how they pair food and food choices and weight loss with religion. But I'm curious how you see that playing out in American culture.

[Jessica Gross]

I love that you just told that story that's so fascinating. And I think I totally agree with you that it is really hard to know what to eat and why in this moment. And I think where it becomes coercive and controlling is when you're telling people your salvation is tied to the way that you are eating. And if you step off this path, that is, you know, akin to consorting with the devil. Like, I just don't think that that's morally fair to people. But I certainly understand the appeal. And, you know, I've written before about my obsession with orange theory, and I often joke that I'm in a cult. But part of the appeal of that high intensity interval training workout is that you put your brain aside for the hour that you're there and you're just listening to the coach tell you what to do. So again, it's all a spectrum of behavior. And I'm not sitting here acting like I am not completely, you know, ruined by diet culture. Like, it's almost. I always think it's just. It's too late for me. It's too late for me. I read too Many magazines in the 90s, and I saw too many pictures of Kate Moss in wellies at Glastonbury. Do not try those if you are under five'10. They make you look so stumpy, which I learned the hard way. So it's almost like I think I write about these issues and think about these issues so much in a Maude Flanders think of the children way. I want so badly for my daughters and the kids growing up today who are just inundated with images and visuals of extreme thinness all the time to be more skeptical of what they are seeing and figure out a healthier, better way.

[Meher Ahmad]

Yeah. Just to bring it back to kind of like the appeal of religion that lies just beneath the surface of this trend. I was wondering, especially because you've reported on religion in this country a fair bit, how you see the vision of, like, diet culture being fully formed versus the left version, or the left's answer being sort of more of a chaotic, like, disarray of ideals. Like, I kind of see this across the political spectrum, not just when it comes to the aesthetics of what conservatism looks like, but conservatism to a lot of Americans is like, here's a vision of what this country is supposed to look like. It's supposed to be white picket fences. It's supposed to be a husband and wife and their kids, and the wife is thin and the husband is this. And they go to church. And, like, this is what this country is meant to be. And for a lot of people having a clear idea of what that vision is appealing, because if the left feels like, I don't know what that even looks like, that that's harder for people to graft onto. Do you see that happening outside of just diet culture? Like, is that part of the thing that draws people into more religious, conservative political viewpoints?

[Jessica Gross]

I think definitely conservative, less so religious, because religious also requires them to go to church and have this whole other set of beliefs and behaviors that younger generations are really not showing that they in big numbers. I've written about this numerous times, but, you know, if you look at the percentage of Americans who identify as Christian and who go to church regularly, you know, it just every generation silent on down is a lower percentage of people who are, even if they define themselves as Christian, attend church weekly. It's just they don't want to do it. So whether it is sort of as a cultural identity, and certainly conservatives have an upper hand in terms of a very clear message of what to do, who to be, what to look like, what America means. And I think that they've been very savvy in the past couple years about understanding that politics is downstream from culture. But if I have to have a number conversation about who is the left's Joe Rogan, I am going to throw myself off a cliff. And so I think providing an alternative vis is going to be more about how we behave than how we look, because I think that is more of a compelling message. Because there's such a nastiness right now to the rhetoric from conservatives and from conservative influencers. I don't know that the left is going to be able to compete on the clarity of vision, but they might be able to get somewhere with the clarity of behavior and morality.

[Meher Ahmad]

So if there's no Joe Rogan of the left, as you said, is there an Alex Clark of the left, is there an alternative in that way, too?

[Jessica Gross]

Well, I mean, we've seen Michelle Obama's podcast do incredibly well. Kylie Kelce, who I love, also is an example of someone who actually has all the things that Alex Clark talks about, but is very open and welcoming and warm. I love her vibe personally. So I think that there's opportunities to who have a version of wellness that isn't so intimately tied to body image and shaming.

[Meher Ahmad]

Well, this feels like a good place to end our conversation. Thanks, Jess, for being here.

[Jessica Gross]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Podcast Host]

If you like this show, follow it on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Opinions is produced by Derek Arthur, Vishaka Darba, Christina Samulewski and Gillian Weinberger. It's edited by Kari Pitkin and Alison Bruzek. Engineering, mixing and original music by Isaac Jones, sonia Herrero, Pat McCusker, Carol Sabaro and Afim Shapiro. Additional music by Aman Sahota. The Fact Check team is Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker and Michelle Harris. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta and Christina Samulewski. The director of Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Strasser.