This Diet Buzzword Is Misleading

Thu Jan 02 2025

President-elect Trump’s pick for secretary of health and human services, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., has been critical of ultraprocessed foods. But how bad are they? In this episode, Nicola Guess, a dietitian and researcher at the University of Oxford, explains why we shouldn’t be scared of the label “ultraprocessed.”

Summary

Podcast Summary: "This Diet Buzzword Is Misleading"

Title: The Opinions
Host/Author: The New York Times Opinion
Episode: This Diet Buzzword Is Misleading
Release Date: January 2, 2025

Introduction to Ultra Processed Foods

In the latest episode of "The Opinions," hosted by The New York Times Opinion, registered dietitian Nicola Guess delves into the controversial topic of ultra processed foods. Starting at [00:45], Guess sets the stage by defining ultra processed foods, listing common examples such as ready meals, chocolate biscuits, sausages, fizzy drinks, chicken nuggets, burgers, and hot dogs.

The Rising Concern Over Ultra Processed Foods

Guess highlights the growing alarm surrounding ultra processed foods, referencing new research that suggests excessive consumption could significantly reduce lifespan. She mentions that scientists are advocating for regulations akin to those imposed on tobacco, including warnings and advertising bans. At [00:58], she emphasizes the timeliness of this debate, especially as individuals contemplate New Year’s resolutions related to health.

Re-evaluating the "Ultra Processed" Label

Contrary to the prevailing narrative, Guess argues that labeling foods as "ultra processed" may not be a definitive indicator of their healthfulness. She states:

"I don't yet think it is a useful way of describing whether a food is healthy or not." ([04:00])

She points out that approximately 75% of ultra processed foods in America are high in fat, sugar, or salt, but the remaining 25% include items like bread, cereals, and yogurt, which are often neutral or beneficial. Guess underscores the importance of considering the nutritional benefits these foods provide, such as:

"A third of folate folic acid intake comes from things like bread and breakfast cereals." ([03:10])

Balancing Health and Environmental Benefits

Guess expands the discussion to include the environmental impact of certain ultra processed alternatives. Citing her consultation with Beyond Meat, she praises products like soy milk for their lower environmental footprint compared to regular milk. She questions the blanket condemnation of all ultra processed foods by asking:

"Do we want to be frightening people off ultra processed foods, which will include things like soy milk, which we are probably going to need to, for example, reduce carbon emissions?" ([03:50])

Insights from Scientific Research

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing Kevin Hall's landmark study at the NIH. At [05:30], Guess explains how Hall compared ultra processed diets with unprocessed diets, ensuring both were matched for fat, salt, and sugar content. The study revealed that participants on the ultra processed diet consumed more calories and gained more weight in a short period, suggesting factors beyond basic macronutrients are at play.

However, Guess critiques the study for not accounting for the intake of whole fruits and vegetables, which are known to promote satiety and reduce overall calorie consumption. She remarks:

"What is it about processing in general that might cause us to overeat? There is also a question about whether there is something about these additives that might be interfering with the way our brain processes energy." ([07:15])

The Complexity of Food Processing

Guess emphasizes that processing encompasses a wide range of practices, and its effects on health are not entirely understood. She points out unanswered questions regarding how processing might influence eating behaviors and metabolic responses, indicating that more nuanced research is necessary.

Practical Recommendations and Policy Suggestions

Transitioning from analysis to action, Guess advocates for focusing on well-established unhealthy foods rather than getting bogged down by the "ultra processed" label. She asserts:

"We do not need more research to understand that donuts, fast food, burgers, sugary drinks are unhealthy for us." ([08:05])

To combat the widespread availability and affordability of unhealthy options, Guess proposes policy measures such as:

Taxation of Unhealthy Foods: Imposing taxes on high-fat, high-sugar, and high-salt products to discourage consumption.
Subsidies for Healthy Foods: Redirecting tax revenues to make healthier options like vegetables more affordable and accessible.
Institutional Changes: Encouraging large institutions like universities and healthcare facilities to implement healthier food environments.

She highlights the significant prevalence of fast food consumption in America, with statistics such as:

"In America, about a third of people have fast food every day. About 30% of people are having fast food probably three times or more a week." ([07:50])

Concluding Thoughts: Rethinking the Nutrition Conversation

In her closing remarks, Guess expresses frustration that the nutrition discourse has shifted from fundamental issues like the lack of fruits and vegetables to the more abstract concept of food processing. She states:

"I cannot believe in 2025 the nutrition conversation is now about supermarket bought bread and high fiber cereals and not about fast food and doughnuts and sugary sweetened beverages and the lack of fruit and veg in our diets." ([08:50])

She urges listeners to redirect their focus towards tangible dietary improvements rather than getting ensnared by the complexities of food processing classifications.

Notable Quotes:

"I don't yet think it is a useful way of describing whether a food is healthy or not." — Nicola Guess [04:00]
"A third of folate folic acid intake comes from things like bread and breakfast cereals." — Nicola Guess [03:10]
"Do we want to be frightening people off ultra processed foods, which will include things like soy milk..." — Nicola Guess [03:50]
"What is it about processing in general that might cause us to overeat?" — Nicola Guess [07:15]
"We do not need more research to understand that donuts, fast food, burgers, sugary drinks are unhealthy for us." — Nicola Guess [08:05]
"I cannot believe in 2025 the nutrition conversation is now about supermarket bought bread..." — Nicola Guess [08:50]

Final Remarks

The episode concludes with brief credits at [09:18], listing the production team and contributors, which are omitted from the summary as per the guidelines.

This comprehensive summary encapsulates Nicola Guess's nuanced perspective on ultra processed foods, balancing the discussion between potential health risks and the benefits certain processed foods offer. It also highlights her call for more practical and impactful approaches to improving public health through dietary changes and policy interventions.

Transcript

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This is the Opinions, a show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it.

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My name is Nicola Guess. I am a registered dietitian and today we're gonna be talking about ultra processed food. Ready meals, chocolate biscuits, sausages, fizzy drinks.

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Chicken nuggets, burgers and hot dogs.

A (0:58)

Well, we know they may be delicious, but new research finds eating them too often could be taking years off your life. Scientists now say these foods should be regulated with tobacco style warnings and advertising bans. It's been an issue that's been bubbling for a number of years and I think really has come to the fore, particularly in the US and this is the time of year when people are thinking, how am I gonna get healthy for the new year? Like what am I gonna do? Should I be eating this or that? And I think ultra has now become the dominant question in nutrition. And that really concerns me because I feel like five years ago we would be thinking is this food healthy or not? That's not what's happening now. Patients are now asking is this an ultra processed food? And I'm going to be making the case that I don't yet think it is a useful way of describing whether a food is healthy or not. It's difficult to eliminate ultra processed foods from our diet completely. We need to think about what the risks or benefits might be when we are raising this conversation of ultra processing. In America, 75% of ultra processed food is high fat, high sugar or high salt food. But what is the grades that other 25% and that is things like breads and cereals and yogurt products, most of which are probably neutral or actually good for us. And some of those ultra processed foods have benefits whether it's providing micronutrients. So in the UK, for example, I think about a third of folate folic acid intake comes from things like bread and breakfast cereals. Do we really want to be Warning people off products that give us a micronutrient that young women are lacking shelf stability isn't a bad thing. It helps reduce food waste, it makes food more affordable. Is that a bad thing? And then you have the environmental question. I've consulted for food companies including Beyond Meat, which makes ultra processed alternatives that I think are better for the planet. And I would die of shock if soy milk were unhealthier than regular milk. But it is unquestionably better for the planet. So do we want to be frightening people off ultra processed foods, which will include things like soy milk, which we are probably going to need to, for example, reduce carbon emissions? And I think these are all trade offs that we're not considering because people are frightened about ultra processed foods. So historically, we've always thought about food in very, very simple terms, whether it's high sugar, high fat, high calorie. For the last 10 years there's been academic research reframing it and saying, well, let's look at food by the degree of processing. And lots of that data showed that when people have lots of their calories from ultra processed food, they get negative health outcomes. So they become overweight, they develop type 2 diabetes, they develop in some cases diseases like dementia. So there was a huge concern, but most people thought, well, this is probably just that we are looking at cookies and cakes and fast food. But Kevin hall did a really great landmark study at the NIH where he said, well, okay then let's compare an ultra processed diet with an unprocessed diet. But we'll match it for those usual suspect ingredients. So we'll make sure they've both got the same amount of fat, we'll make sure they've both got the same amount of salt, they've both got the same amount of sugar, and let's see what happens. And what he found was that people on the ultra processed diet ate more and they gained more weight in a very short period of time compared to the unprocessed diet. And that really made us recognize, well, it's not just then this salt and the sugar and the fat, there's something else going on. So it caused a lot of excitement. And then I think people thinking, aha, we've really got to look more closely at this ultra processed issue. But think about what you do when you're not having any unprocessed food. That means you're not having any whole fruits and veg. And to me, this is a big limitation of that study is that yes, the diets were matched for Sugar and salt and things like that, but they weren't for fruits and vegetables. What we know is that when we consume meals with lots of particularly vegetables, we spontaneously consume fewer calories. So to me, although Kevin's study was a breakthrough in understanding, okay, what does processing do? There is still an unanswered question about what would happen if people consumed, yes, some ultra processed foods, but the rest of their diet was high in fruit and veg. Processing means lots of things, and there are lots of questions that we still need to answer. What is it about processing in general that might cause us to overeat? There is also a question about whether there is something about these additives that might be interfering with the way our brain processes energy. So they might kind of be tricking us into thinking we are not eating many calories, and actually we are, or they might sort of be triggering what we call this hedonic response that it's a pleasurable thing when we eat. We don't know the answers to any of that yet. And so my concern is what we should be doing is, in terms of advising people about what is healthy, is go with what we are certain about. So we do not need more research to understand that donuts, fast food, burgers, sugary drinks are unhealthy for us. And in my opinion, we should be acting on that rather than getting carried away by, does this jar of hummus or pasta sauce have an emulsifier in it, or whether it's got an ingredient you don't recognize on the label? So the way to stop people consuming all of this unhealthy stuff is basically availability and price. It's not like you go to the movie theater and oh, here's a bag of dried fruit, or here's some fruit and nuts. In America, about a third of people have fast food every day. About 30% of people are having fast food probably three times or more a week. In the US one in six kids is having fast food maybe twice a day, is having potato chips and an energy drink on the bus in the morning for school. So wherever we are, we are exposed to, can we call it crappy food? I mean, all of us? No, it's not good for us. But it's right there, it's convenient. And that's our problem that we need to fix, in my opinion, is changing the food environment so it's not so available. The best proposal I've seen is that you put a tax on these foods or so a levi on those foods, and use that to subsidise healthier foods. So for example, vegetables. And I think that's a useful pragmatic way forward. And even it could be easier in institutions. So, for example, lots of college campuses, lots of healthcare institutions are large enough that if they implemented some of these changes, they could have a real effect locally. The food industry aren't going to like that, but what we don't want is companies to make profit out of stuff that's making us unhealthy. For example, the big soda companies are not going to like any proposal to remove their products from school. So this has to be driven by the public supporting their governments to enact these changes. In terms of bang for our buck, I cannot believe in 2025 the nutrition conversation is now about supermarket bought bread and high fiber cereals and not about fast food and doughnuts and sugary sweetened beverages and the lack of fruit and veg in our diets. I cannot believe and I think this is what the ultra processed lens has done is we are focusing on the wrong thing.