Podcast Summary: "Trump and Musk, the ‘Co-Presidents’"
Podcast Information:
- Title: The Opinions
- Host/Author: The New York Times Opinion
- Description: You've heard the news, here's what to make of it.
- Episode: Trump and Musk, the ‘Co-Presidents’
- Release Date: February 19, 2025
Introduction
In the February 19, 2025 episode of The Opinions titled "Trump and Musk, the ‘Co-Presidents’," hosts Aaron Reticka and columnist Jamel Bouie delve into the escalating constitutional crisis surrounding former President Donald Trump and entrepreneur Elon Musk. The discussion revolves around their simultaneous assertions of executive power and the implications for American democracy.
Executive Power and the Unitary Executive Theory
Aaron Reticka initiates the conversation by highlighting Trump’s aggressive moves within the Department of Justice and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB):
"The new Trump administration has fired federal prosecutors at the Department of Justice who were involved in the criminal cases investigating President Trump and his role in the January 6th Capitol riots." [02:10]
Jamel Bouie responds by explaining that Trump is pushing the unitary executive theory, which posits that all executive power is concentrated solely in the president. Bouie elaborates:
"They are really sort of asserting the fullest form, the most expansive form of the unitary executive theory... the president has the total and absolute and unreviewable right to fire that person, to order them to do whatever..." [02:24]
He further critiques this approach by pointing out the constitutional balance of power:
"The executive branch, the federal bureaucracy, is a creature of and jointly controlled joint custody of the President and of Congress and of the courts to an extent." [04:48]
Actions Against Federal Agencies
The hosts discuss Trump's targeted actions against federal agencies, emphasizing the shutdown of the CFPB:
"The US Government headquarters for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is closing down this week after an email ordered employees to stop virtually all of their work." [01:30]
Bouie characterizes this as an attempt to assert presidential dominance over agencies traditionally under joint control:
"What Trump is asserting is this idea that... the president is the chief executive, that this means that anything that comes out of the executive branch... is essentially an appendage of the president." [02:24]
The Role of Elon Musk and Constitutional Crisis
A significant portion of the discussion centers on Elon Musk’s emerging role within the federal government, raising questions about the Appointments Clause. Reticka brings up Musk’s official stance:
"On Monday night, in a court filing, the administration asserted that he actually wasn't the head of Doge, that he's just a special advisor to the President." [20:58]
Bouie explains the constitutional implications:
"If Musk is acting as co-president without any accountability, that is, it's not great. It's bad." [24:11]
He further elaborates on the Appointments Clause:
"The Appointments Clause of the Constitution simply empowers the President to nominate and with the advice and consent of the Senate, appoint public officials." [21:08]
Resistance Within the Executive Branch
The hosts explore potential resistance from within the executive branch, citing the case of Danielle Sassoon, the Acting U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York:
"Last week, Danielle Sassoon... refused to drop the case when she had been ordered to by the Department of Justice." [14:12]
Bouie speculates on the possibility of increased pushback:
"They would be jealous of their authority and jealous of their power and would on that basis want to push back." [14:12]
Future Implications and Potential Outcomes
Looking ahead, Bouie warns of potential economic and political fallout:
"If there are enough of these things in a short enough period of time, that's a real economic hit... Maybe he gets these tariffs that he wants and doesn't back down." [18:51]
He also discusses the fragility of public support and institutional resistance:
"Public opinions still exist, other political actors still exist, the society still exists... Shock and Awe was successful in March 2003, and it meant nothing six months later." [19:37]
Conclusion
In concluding the episode, Reticka and Bouie underscore the severity of the constitutional crisis precipitated by Trump and Musk's actions. Bouie emphasizes the importance of Congressional response:
"Congress refusing to act in the face of what's happening... effectively validates the assertion, validate the power grab." [11:28]
The hosts leave listeners contemplating the future of American democracy and the essential balance of powers:
"If there's no check on executive power, the foundations of constitutional governance are at risk." [19:38]
Notable Quotes with Timestamps:
- Jamel Bouie: "They are really sort of asserting the fullest form, the most expansive form of the unitary executive theory." [02:24]
- Aaron Reticka: "Elon Musk is like just being the President right now and like kind of looking back over shoulder every so often to be like, okay, Trump." [24:08]
- Jamel Bouie: "The Appointments Clause of the Constitution simply empowers the President to nominate and with the advice and consent of the Senate, appoint public officials." [21:08]
- Jamel Bouie: "Public opinions still exist, other political actors still exist, the society still exists." [19:37]
Key Takeaways
- Unitary Executive Theory: Trump and Musk are pushing for an expansive interpretation of executive power, challenging the traditional checks and balances.
- Constitutional Crisis: Actions against federal agencies and Musk’s ambiguous role raise significant constitutional questions.
- Internal Resistance: Instances like Danielle Sassoon’s defiance highlight potential pushback within the executive branch.
- Future Risks: Without Congressional intervention, the integrity of American governance could be severely undermined.
This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the current political turmoil, offering listeners a deep understanding of the constitutional challenges facing the United States.