Podcast Summary: "Trump’s Era of International Bullying"

The Opinions by The New York Times Opinion, hosted by Chris DeMar, delves into the profound impact of President Donald Trump's second term on global leadership and international relations. Released on May 15, 2025, this episode features insightful discussions with esteemed columnists Lydia Polgreen and Nick Kristof, who dissect the nuances of Trump's foreign policies and their cascading effects worldwide.

1. Understanding the "Trump Effect" on Global Leadership

Chris DeMar introduces the concept of the "Trump effect," categorizing world leaders' responses into three distinct groups: emboldened, defiant, and opportunistic. He posits that Trump's administration has reshaped international dynamics, prompting varied reactions from global leaders.

Chris DeMar [01:12]: “There are the emboldened leaders, leaders like Vladimir Putin who are using Trump's foreign policy to advance their own agendas, and then there are the defiant leaders, leaders like Canada's Mark Carney who just won a recent election by promising to stand up to Trump.”

Nick Kristof engages with this taxonomy, exploring whether Trump is the primary catalyst or merely capitalizing on existing global shifts.

Nick Kristof [02:04]: “I think we're living in a world that Trump is both shaping but also taking opportunity of himself.”

2. Trump's Foreign Policy: A Transactional Bully

Lydia Polgreen characterizes Trump as a "transactional bully," emphasizing his lack of ideological commitment and how his aggressive tactics have both advanced and undermined American interests.

Lydia Polgreen [03:15]: “President Trump fundamentally is not particularly ideological. He's a transactional bully... But overall, we are less safe now.”

She critiques Trump for dismantling the post-World War II international architecture, leading to increased aggression from nations like Israel and the UAE, and heightening the risk of large-scale conflicts, particularly with Russia and China.

3. Contrasting Trump's Second Term with His First

The conversation shifts to the distinctions between Trump's first and second terms. Nick Kristof highlights a more fractured and perilous global landscape, noting diminished U.S. resolve in utilizing hard power effectively.

Nick Kristof [05:05]: “We're seeing a much more fractured and dangerous world... [Trump] decided to pull up stakes and say, you know what? We're just gonna declare victory.”

Lydia Polgreen echoes this sentiment, describing Trump's current approach as an escalation of his initial term's policies, further eroding collective security mechanisms like NATO.

Lydia Polgreen [06:05]: “NATO Article 5... I think is, in practice, gone... we're less safe now.”

4. Case Studies: Global Reactions to Trump's Policies

Democratic Republic of Congo and Rwanda

Nick Kristof brings attention to the ongoing conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo, exacerbated by Rwandan aggression. He underscores how Trump's leadership style emboldens authoritarian rulers, destabilizing regions and fueling humanitarian crises.

Nick Kristof [08:31]: “The catastrophic effects of huge territorial disputes on the African continent... it's just mind boggling.”

Sudan and UAE Involvement

Lydia Polgreen sheds light on Sudan's humanitarian crisis, attributing the intensification of violence to the UAE's support for oppressive factions. She criticizes the Trump administration for creating a permissive environment that allows such abuses to flourish.

Lydia Polgreen [12:22]: “President Trump has created a permission structure where it is okay for other countries to bully as well... we are less safe now.”

US-UK Trade Deal and Diplomatic Relations

The episode further explores the recent trade deal between the U.S. and the UK, highlighting British Prime Minister Keir Starmer's strategic engagement with Trump. Nick Kristof criticizes this approach as pandering to an "immature man," risking broader geopolitical interests.

Nick Kristof [15:17]: “There's something really sinister and frankly, pathetic about this way of operating in the world.”

5. Diminished Global Perception of the United States

Nick Kristof discusses the declining allure of the United States as a destination for migrants, attributing this shift to Trump's harsh immigration policies and diminished soft power.

Nick Kristof [20:43]: “Historically, the United States was the most desirable destination for migrants everywhere... under the Trump administration, it's not surprising that people would not want to come here.”

Lydia Polgreen adds that the current American political climate fosters a sense of shared adversity among international peers, creating an implicit solidarity against the Trump administration's actions.

Lydia Polgreen [22:12]: “It's more of a sense of we're all in this mess together, almost an assumption of that at international gatherings.”

6. The Future of the Global Order Post-Trump

Looking ahead, Nick Kristof contemplates the emergence of a multipolar world order, where the U.S.'s predominant role is waning. He emphasizes the need for global institutions to become more inclusive, a process undermined by Trump's administration.

Nick Kristof [23:23]: “What sort of global order is likely to emerge in a post Trump era... it's going to take a while for the United States to find a way to live easily within what that new world looks like.”

Lydia Polgreen concurs, expressing skepticism about fully restoring pre-Trump alliances and systemic structures, noting that rebuilding trust will be a protracted endeavor.

Lydia Polgreen [25:45]: “The system has taken a real hit. I think it'll take a long time to recover. We're not going to recover fully, but I don't think that it's all over yet either.”

Conclusion

The episode underscores the transformative and often destabilizing influence of Trump's second term on international relations. Through the insights of Lydia Polgreen and Nick Kristof, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the challenges posed by Trump's foreign policies, the shifting global power dynamics, and the uncertain path forward for the United States on the world stage.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris DeMar [01:12]: “There are the emboldened leaders... the defiant leaders... the opportunistic leaders.”

• Lydia Polgreen [03:15]: “But overall, we are less safe now.”

• Nick Kristof [05:05]: “We're seeing a much more fractured and dangerous world...”

• Nick Kristof [08:31]: “It's just mind boggling.”

• Nick Kristof [15:17]: “There's something really sinister and frankly, pathetic about this way of operating in the world.”

• Nick Kristof [20:43]: “Under the Trump administration, it's not surprising that people would not want to come here.”

• Nick Kristof [23:23]: “What sort of global order is likely to emerge in a post Trump era...”

This comprehensive discussion offers a critical lens on the ramifications of Trump's governance, providing listeners with a nuanced perspective on contemporary global politics and the evolving role of the United States internationally.