Welcome to Trump’s Mafia State

Summary

The Opinions: "Welcome to Trump’s Mafia State" – Summary

Release Date: April 21, 2025
Host: The New York Times Opinion
Description: "You've heard the news, here's what to make of it."

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Welcome to Trump’s Mafia State," hosts Masha Gessen and an unnamed Opinion Columnist delve into the Trump administration's aggressive tactics aimed at high-profile universities. They argue that these actions exemplify Trump's efforts to establish a "mafia state," systematically stripping institutions of their autonomy and power.

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Trump Administration's Pressure on Universities

Harvard Under Siege

The discussion begins with the Trump administration's threats towards prestigious universities like Harvard. The administration has been exerting pressure by threatening to withdraw substantial federal funding—over $2 billion in research grants—to compel universities to comply with its demands.

Opinion Columnist (01:19): "The administration wanted Harvard to limit activism on campus and DEI programs and change the school's governance."

Furthermore, President Trump has threatened to revoke Harvard's tax-exempt status, accusing the institution of promoting "political, ideological and terror inspired sickness."

Opinion Columnist (01:37): "President Trump also threatening to revoke the university's tax exempt status, accusing the school of pushing political, ideological and terror inspired sickness."

Harvard's response has been steadfast. The university's president declared that Harvard "will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights by agreeing to the terms" set forth by the administration.

Opinion Columnist (01:37): "Harvard's president wrote a letter in response saying the school, 'will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights by agreeing to the terms.'"

Columbia University's Capitulation

Before Harvard, Columbia University faced similar threats, leading to the suspension of $400 million in federal research grants. Columbia attempted to comply with the administration's demands, which resulted in minimal concessions but failed to restore the withdrawn funds. Ultimately, Columbia had to relinquish its president pro tem, yet this did not suffice to reverse the administration's stance.

Masha Gessen (03:24): "Columbia, which was the first university targeted, tried to bend, apparently in the hopes of preventing further attacks."

Opinion Columnist (04:08): "After Columbia had $400 million in federal research grants suspended, and Columbia immediately ceded to demands that are similar, weren't as broad as the demands levied against Harvard, but after Columbia did that, the money didn't rematerialize."

The failure of Columbia to negotiate successfully serves as a cautionary tale for other universities.

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Formation of a Mafia State

Defining the Mafia State

Masha Gessen and the Opinion Columnist elaborate on the concept of a "mafia state," describing it as a highly centralized system where a single leader—referred to as the patron or don—controls the distribution of money and power. This system thrives by dismantling independent financial and intellectual institutions, such as wealthy universities, which could challenge the patron's authority.

Masha Gessen (02:10): "That Trump is building a mafia state. Now, a mafia state is an absolutely centralized system in which one person, the patron, the don, distributes money and power."

Strategy Against Universities

Trump's strategy involves using various tools to undermine universities' autonomy:

1. Targeting Research Grants: Easy to wield individually against institutions like Harvard and Columbia.
2. Endowment Taxes: Aimed at universities across the board, especially those without significant endowments.
3. International Students: Leveraging their status as a major revenue source.
4. Federal Funding: Including financial aid, which is crucial for schools with limited research funding.

Masha Gessen (04:43): "He has said that he would use nonprofit status against universities, that he would try to get an endowment tax against them, and would go after international students who represent a significant source of revenue for a lot of big universities."

Opinion Columnist (05:43): "I think we should expect the Trump administration to use the full arsenal of tools at its disposal."

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Historical Parallels and Implications

Comparisons to Russia and Hungary

The hosts draw parallels between Trump's tactics and historical actions taken by autocratic regimes in Russia and Hungary. In Russia, under Vladimir Putin, it took a year to take over media and nearly a decade to subdue universities. Hungary's Orban administration similarly targeted independent universities to eliminate intellectual opposition.

Masha Gessen (08:36): "We saw it in Russia, where I've lived most of my life. We saw it in Hungary, where it's no coincidence that independent universities were an important target of the Orban administration."

Consequences of Intellectual Suppression

The erosion of university autonomy leads to a significant loss in intellectual and cultural capital. Gessen references her book, "The Future is History," highlighting how totalitarian regimes like the Soviet Union systematically destroyed their intellectual classes, resulting in a "net knowledge loss."

Opinion Columnist (09:24): "What happens is that there's very little intellectual opposition...one of my books is called 'The Future is History.' One of the things that I look at in the future's history, how totalitarianism reclaimed Russia, is what one person I talked to called net knowledge loss."

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Resistance and Adaptation

Harvard's Stance

Harvard's refusal to comply with Trump's demands is portrayed as a crucial stand against the administration's encroachment. This resistance not only protects the university's autonomy but also sets a precedent for other institutions.

Masha Gessen (04:08): "Hearing from its political scientists who were warning that it would be extremely dangerous to cave into this administration."

Alternative Models: Bard College

The hosts highlight Bard College as an exemplar of resilience. Instead of focusing solely on competition and rankings, Bard has expanded its educational reach through initiatives like the Bard Prison Initiative and Bard High School Early College, making education accessible to a broader audience.

Opinion Columnist (07:25): "I think if they want to have a university in addition to their endowment, they have to shift their priorities from what universities currently focus on, which is competition...and the rising in rankings by U.S. news & World Report."

Masha Gessen (07:33): "She [the opinion columnist] used the example of Bard College, which remarkably, has responded to every crisis it has faced in the last 20, 25 years by teaching more people."

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Concluding Insights

No Negotiation Policy

The episode concludes with a stark warning: negotiating with the Trump administration is futile, as it continuously demands more concessions until institutions are completely dismantled.

Masha Gessen (11:51): "There is no such thing as negotiating with this administration."

Call to Action for Universities

Universities must recognize the severity of the threat and consider restructuring their priorities to survive the administration's onslaught. Protecting endowments and maintaining research funding may not suffice; a fundamental shift towards broader educational accessibility is necessary.

Opinion Columnist (12:00): "It is always going to demand more."

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Key Takeaways

• Trump's Strategy: Systematically targets universities through financial and regulatory pressures to dismantle their autonomy.
• Impact on Academia: Risk of intellectual suppression and loss of academic freedom, mirroring historical totalitarian regimes.
• Resistance Efforts: Institutions like Harvard and Bard College exemplify resilience by refusing to comply and expanding educational outreach.
• Broader Implications: A "mafia state" erodes the foundational pillars of knowledge production and dissemination, threatening the very essence of higher education.

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Notable Quotes

• Opinion Columnist (01:37): "Harvard's president wrote a letter in response saying the school, 'will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights by agreeing to the terms.'"

• Masha Gessen (02:10): "That Trump is building a mafia state. Now, a mafia state is an absolutely centralized system in which one person, the patron, the don, distributes money and power."

• Opinion Columnist (05:43): "I think we should expect the Trump administration to use the full arsenal of tools at its disposal."

• Masha Gessen (08:36): "We saw it in Russia, where I've lived most of my life. We saw it in Hungary, where it's no coincidence that independent universities were an important target of the Orban administration."

• Masha Gessen (11:51): "There is no such thing as negotiating with this administration."

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This episode of "The Opinions" serves as a compelling analysis of the Trump administration's detrimental impact on higher education, drawing historical parallels and offering insights into potential paths for institutional survival and resistance.

Transcript

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[Podcast Announcer]

A show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it.

[Masha Gessen]

My name is Masha Gessen and I'm.

[Opinion Columnist]

An opinion columnist for the New York Times. The Trump administration has threatened at this point, I hesitate to say how many high profile universities with pulling their federal funds, which in this case means pulling research grants, some of them amounting to more than $2 billion, as in the case of Harvard, unless they submit to various demands.

[Commentator]

The administration wanted Harvard to limit activism on campus and DEI programs and change the school's governance.

President Trump also threatening to revoke the university's tax exempt status, accusing the school of pushing political, ideological and terror inspired sickness.

Harvard's president wrote a letter in response saying the school, quote, will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights by agreeing to the terms.

[Opinion Columnist]

And in effect, these demands are to place the university under direct federal oversight. So the pretexts that the administration is using have to do with DEI and anti Semitism. But the real reason, I think is anti intellectualism and greed and the fact.

[Masha Gessen]

That Trump is building a mafia state. Now, a mafia state is an absolutely centralized system in which one person, the.

[Opinion Columnist]

Patron, the don, distributes money and power.

[Masha Gessen]

And so in order to build a.

[Opinion Columnist]

Mafia state, such an aspiring patron needs to strip other agents of their money and power so then he can give some of that money back to them or not. Some universities are actually quite wealthy, so they are to some extent independent financial centers and they are centers of independent intellectual and political power. And that's what he's really going after. I hesitate to talk about how important it is that Harvard stood up, because it really should be a no brainer like of course these demands are blatantly illegal and there are just it almost literally says nice university you got there. Shame if something happened to it. There's no way that a university could accede to those kinds of demands. And yet we saw Columbia, which was.

[Masha Gessen]

The first university targeted try to bend, apparently in the hopes of preventing further attacks.

[Opinion Columnist]

It very quickly became obvious that that doesn't work. After Columbia had $400 million in federal research grants suspended, and Columbia immediately ceded to demands that are similar, weren't as broad as the demands levied against Harvard, but after Colombia did that, the money didn't rematerialize. So then Columbia sacrificed its president pro tem, and that still wasn't enough. So I think that Harvard, on the one hand, was consulting with its lawyers. On the other hand, we now know.

[Masha Gessen]

Hearing from its political scientists who were.

[Opinion Columnist]

Warning that it would be extremely dangerous to cave into this administration.

[Masha Gessen]

And on the third hand, looking at.

[Opinion Columnist]

What happened to Columbia and realizing that there is no negotiating with this mafia state, that if you give them a.

[Masha Gessen]

Little, they will just take the rest.

[Opinion Columnist]

We've had many previews of what Trump is going to do to universities, and I think it's worth taking a minute to sort of review his strategy because.

[Masha Gessen]

He has said that he would use.

[Opinion Columnist]

Nonprofit status against universities, that he would.

[Masha Gessen]

Try to get an endowment tax against.

[Opinion Columnist]

Universities, that they would go after international, international students who represent a significant source of revenue for a lot of big universities and other sources of federal funding, such as financial aid, which is also very important for a lot of schools, including ones that don't get a lot of research funding from the federal government.

[Masha Gessen]

So it's interesting to me that Trump.

[Opinion Columnist]

Started with these research grants because research grants are really the easiest thing to, to wield individually against universities.

[Masha Gessen]

And divide and conquer is, of course.

[Opinion Columnist]

One of the most important strategies. And so an endowment tax would be more likely to affect many universities across the board. But research grants are granted individually, and so they can be pulled individually. But I think we should expect the.

[Masha Gessen]

Trump administration to use the full arsenal.

[Opinion Columnist]

Of tools as its disposal. And it has the ability to, if not bankrupt universities, it certainly has the ability to bankrupt universities that don't have significant endowments, which is most of them. But it has the ability to weaken universities that even have giant endowments, such as Harvard. I think that the only way for universities to really address this is to come to terms with the fact that there's no way for them, with this administration, to keep their federal money.

[Masha Gessen]

So what are they going to do.

[Opinion Columnist]

Knowing that they're going to suffer huge losses? I don't think at this point it's preventable. What is preventable is an all out destruction of universities as places where young people learn, as places where humanities research is done, as places where intellectual work gets done and disseminated. So the approach that some people have been advocating is they should protect their endowments, they should try to protect their science funding to try to get through Trump's four year term, and then hopefully things will get better. I don't think it's realistic. I think if they want to have a university in addition to their endowment, they have to shift their priorities from what universities currently focus on, which is competition, which is getting as many applicants as possible and admitting as low a percentage of them as possible, which is.

[Masha Gessen]

Growth, real estate, the growth of their.

[Opinion Columnist]

Endowment, and the rising in rankings by U.S. news & World Report.

[Masha Gessen]

So set all of that aside and.

[Opinion Columnist]

Start teaching as widely as possible. I used the example of Bard College, which remarkably, has responded to every crisis it has faced in the last 20, 25 years by teaching more people. So Bard College has more degree candidates outside its campus in upstate New York than it does on campus. And these degree candidates include more than 400 people who are studying in prisons in the Bard Prison initiative, thousands of people who are attending Bard High School, Early College, which are free high schools in six or seven different cities in the United States. It's a really amazing and imaginative way of making the university widely accessible to the largest possible number of people. We've seen what happens when universities succumb to autocrats.

[Masha Gessen]

I saw it in Russia, where I've.

[Opinion Columnist]

Lived most of my life. We saw it in Hungary, where it's no coincidence that independent universities were an important target of the Orban administration. What happens is that there's very little intellectual opposition.

[Masha Gessen]

And such as it is, it is.

[Opinion Columnist]

Marginalized because it doesn't have any institutional support, which is part of what universities are for. And in the long run, it is. One of my books is called the Future is History. And one of the things that I look at in the future's history, how totalitarianism reclaimed Russia, is what one person I talked to called net knowledge loss.

[Masha Gessen]

That occurred in the Soviet Union over.

[Opinion Columnist]

The course of its 70 years of totalitarian rule, where after the Bolshevik Revolution, there was systematic and intentional destruction of the old intellectual class. And as a result, this one economist told me that economists who were trained in Soviet universities in the 1970s lacked.

[Masha Gessen]

The sophistication, the knowledge necessary to read Russian economists who had worked in the 1920s. So in a rapidly developing field such as economics, they actually knew less, they had less language, they had fewer tools.

[Opinion Columnist]

Of self understanding than people who had worked 50 years earlier. And that's an extreme but perfectly realistic example of what happens when you have an autocratic president who wants to destroy knowledge production. So this is not going to stop with Harvard. However, the battle of Harvard ends. But resistance on the part of Harvard, I think, makes it more difficult for the administration to expect significant concessions from other universities that have the resources to fight. You know, I've lived through this before, not nearly at this rate. It took Vladimir Putin a year to take over Russian media and almost a decade to really bring universities to heel and to see sort of the same.

[Masha Gessen]

Playbook, but vastly speed it up. And to see that Americans who don't.

[Opinion Columnist]

Have the history of living under totalitarian rule, who think of themselves as freedom loving and valuing their rights to free.

[Masha Gessen]

Speech and freedom of movement and all sorts of other important things, to see them just fold a lot of the.

[Opinion Columnist]

Time, as happened with Columbia, as happened.

[Masha Gessen]

With many of the law firms, is incredibly disheartening.

[Opinion Columnist]

I think the broader lesson is that.

[Masha Gessen]

There is no such thing as negotiating with this administration.

[Opinion Columnist]

It is always going to demand more.

[Masha Gessen]

Concessions until nothing is left of the institution that has targeted.

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