The Opinions – "What Do You Do When a Family Member Commits a Terrible Crime?"
Podcast: The Opinions (New York Times Opinion)
Host: Em Gessen
Guest: Harriet Clark, author and child of incarcerated parents
Release Date: April 2, 2026
Episode Overview
This episode tackles the harrowing, complex question: What happens when a family member commits a terrible crime? Host Em Gessen, whose own cousin is serving a 10-year prison sentence for hiring a hitman against his ex-wife, is joined by Harriet Clark, whose mother served 37 years for her role in a fatal armed robbery. Together, they share personal experiences, debate the obligations of families to their imprisoned loved ones, and explore the emotional, social, and ethical fallout for the children involved. The conversation is compassionate, challenging, and deeply thought-provoking, focusing on empathy, accountability, and the role of the "carceral logic" in American family life.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Growing Up with an Incarcerated Parent
[02:32]
- Harriet’s Childhood Visits: Harriet Clark describes her experience growing up visiting her mother every weekend in prison. The facility made efforts to maintain parental bonds, offering a children’s center for play and crafts.
- "I was also very lucky that my mother was incarcerated in a facility that tried to facilitate relationships between parents and their children…so that we could play with our mothers and we could make crafts and have games." – Harriet [02:45]
- Family Unity: Despite the trauma and division caused by her mother’s crime, Harriet’s family worked hard to keep her relationship with her mother alive, through phone calls, special dolls, and sharing letters about the outside world.
2. Why Maintain a Relationship With Someone Who Did Harm?
[04:16]
- The Child’s Perspective: Clark explains that cutting off children from imprisoned parents can be "as present as the presence is," potentially harming the child’s self-worth and ability to process complex emotions.
- "When your parent goes to prison, you inherit a very painful piece of knowledge, which is that you are leavable. And that's a very scary thing for a kid to know." – Harriet [05:18]
- Collective Harm: Adults' discomfort can deepen a child's sense of abandonment. Clark urges families to foster connection, countering the belief that removal equals safety.
3. The Traumas and Trade-Offs of Maintaining Contact
[08:00]
- Two Experiences, Two Outcomes: Harriet saw her mother regularly in a child-friendly space, but her contact with her father was drastically limited, partly due to her grandparents’ anger, and also due to harsher prison conditions.
- "I speak from that experience when I say the absence can be worse. Because it was true that I didn't understand what had happened with my father and I did feel more abandoned." – Harriet [09:03]
4. Shielding Children from Difficult Truths
[09:27]
- Reality vs. Protection: Clark suggests it’s impossible—and unhelpful—to protect children by "controlling their reality" about a parent’s incarceration. Instead, they need loving guidance through it.
- "He can't be protected from that reality. What he can be is companioned and loved within that reality." – Harriet [10:21]
- Building Support: The family’s role is to help the child navigate painful truths, focusing on "delight and affirmation" even amid suffering.
5. Personal Reactions to Crime in the Family
[12:30]
- Vengeance and the Carceral System: Em reflects on the surprising feeling of rooting for their cousin’s conviction, questioning whether the justice system moderates or channels vengeance.
- "I found that, in fact, my own sense of vengeance was being channeled by the prosecutor. Right. And it is as though it was in total concert with the carceral system." – Em [13:25]
- Harriet’s Critique: Clark argues the justice system fails to keep vengeance in check, with parole boards often influenced by a desire for perpetual punishment.
6. Collective Response After Violence
[19:58]
- What Happens After Harm? The substantive healing comes not from exclusion, but through collective efforts to support all affected—especially the children.
- "Figuring out how to be with people after they've caused great harm is incredibly difficult... It's a long and hard journey figuring out how to become good people in each other's lives." – Harriet [20:20]
- Restoration Over Removal: Instead of doing “closure” or cutting contact, Clark advocates for family and community coming together to facilitate accountability and safer bonds.
7. Respect, Trust, and Accountability
[22:28, 24:43, 26:54]
- Repair Is a Process: Clark distinguishes between respect and trust, acknowledging that trust is not automatic for someone who repeatedly lies or manipulates.
- "If you don't trust him, great, don't trust him. Don't leave him alone with his children. Offer to be the presence when he gets out." – Harriet [32:49]
- Accountability as a Long Road: The demand for confession or full truth-telling may be impossible or unsafe for those inside the system, and shouldn’t be the sole basis for relationships or family inclusion.
- “We say, how can we help your cousin and your whole family on the very long road to accountability? And it might be that he has other positive things to offer you and his kids and the members of your family before truth.” – Harriet [28:15]
- Every Family Must Find Its Own Path: Clark emphasizes the need for collective, creative solutions, acknowledging each family’s circumstances and boundaries.
Memorable Quotes & Notable Exchanges
-
On Children and Incarcerated Parents:
“If you don't facilitate a relationship between a kid and their incarcerated parent, the absent parent just becomes this black hole. They take on this kind of mythic dimension, and kids deserve to have a person.” – Harriet Clark [05:56] -
On the Role of Vengeance in Justice:
“I wish the system kept the forces of vengeance in their place. But actually… a huge reason why so many people are serving such obscenely long sentences is because they're being denied parole… vengeance within the parole board.” – Harriet Clark [14:06] -
On Demanding Truth from the Incarcerated:
"I think that this demand for truth can sound very reasonable and seem very ethical. And actually, I don't know if it should be allowed to be the be all and end all of our relationship with people." – Harriet Clark [28:40] -
On Managing Family After Harm:
"You have to come up with a collective solution for the fact that you have an untrustworthy member of your family. You have someone who tells lies... And now your family has to figure out how to literally and figuratively keep everyone safe in light of that." – Harriet Clark [33:00] -
On the Universality of Harm:
"They try to take sinful behavior and say it belongs just to this population... and the truth is, in general... we're all capable of harm, and we know that." – Harriet Clark [34:56]
Important Timestamps
- Growing up with incarcerated parent: [02:32] – [04:16]
- The child’s right to a relationship: [04:53] – [08:00]
- Varying family experiences: [08:00] – [09:27]
- Facing ‘too much upset’ for a child: [09:27] – [12:08]
- Vengeance and carceral logic: [12:30] – [15:59]
- Collective healing vs. exclusion: [19:58] – [22:22]
- Father’s death, family legacy, repair: [24:30] – [26:54]
- Demanding truth and admissions: [26:54] – [32:46]
- Limits, boundaries, and respect: [32:46] – [36:04]
Conclusion
This episode urges listeners to question ingrained assumptions about punishment, exclusion, and repair within families struck by crime. Both Gessen and Clark model vulnerability, honesty, and open disagreement as they navigate the uncomfortable realities of harm, justice, and healing. The key takeaway is that there are no perfect answers—only ongoing, collective efforts toward repair, respect, and, where possible, trust.
Notable Final Exchange:
- "Any form of connection is meaningful inside experiences of profound disconnection." – Harriet Clark [35:57]
- "This is possibly the most important thing [the kids will] ever hear about what happened with their dad. Thank you." – Em Gessen [36:21]