Podcast Summary: "What If Our Democracy Can’t Survive Without Christianity?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Opinions
• Host: The New York Times Opinion
• Episode: What If Our Democracy Can’t Survive Without Christianity?
• Release Date: December 18, 2024

Introduction

In the episode titled "What If Our Democracy Can’t Survive Without Christianity?" from The Opinions, host David French engages in a profound conversation with Jonathan Rauch, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and author of Cross: Christianity's Broken Bargain with Democracy. The discussion delves into the intricate relationship between Christianity and American democracy, exploring how the former underpins the values essential for the latter's sustenance.

Host and Guest Background

David French introduces himself as an opinion columnist for The New York Times with a longstanding engagement in American evangelicalism and political conservatism. He expresses his surprise and concern over the unwavering support white evangelicals have shown for Donald Trump, highlighting a disconnect between his personal experiences within evangelical communities and their recent political affiliations.

Jonathan Rauch, identified as an atheist and a scholar dedicated to understanding Christianity's role in politics, responds to French's observations. Despite not sharing the Christian faith, Rauch emphasizes his commitment to exploring how Christianity can positively influence democracy.

The Role of Christianity in American Democracy

French opens the dialogue by addressing his unexpected surprise at evangelicals' staunch support for Donald Trump, despite his deep roots in evangelical America. He reflects on how external critics, like Rauch, can sometimes perceive the strengths and weaknesses of a community more clearly than its insiders.

Notable Quote:

[00:52] David French: "Sometimes critics outside a community can see the community more clearly in some ways than those who live inside."

Rauch concurs, detailing how the foundational values of Christianity align closely with Madisonian liberalism, particularly emphasizing fearlessness, imitation of Jesus, and forgiveness. He posits that these values are crucial for maintaining a constitutional republic.

Notable Quote:

[03:46] Jonathan Rauch: "The three fundamentals of Christianity map very well onto the three fundamentals of Madisonian liberalism."

Thin, Sharp, and Thick Christianity

Rauch introduces a critical framework dividing American Christianity into three categories: Thin Christianity, Sharp Christianity, and Thick Christianity.

1. Thin Christianity ([07:05] Jonathan Rauch):
   Defined by its secularization and commodification, where churches become consumer goods. This version lacks depth, leading believers to seek meaning through politics or other dubious avenues when faith does not sufficiently engage them.

   Notable Quote:

   "People just shop for churches and they like what they hear, and they're not really challenged in church."
   – Jonathan Rauch

2. Sharp Christianity ([08:41] Jonathan Rauch):
   Characterized by adversarial stances against the broader culture, sharp Christianity becomes entwined with political partisanship. Rauch points out the problematic alliance between the white evangelical church and the Republican Party, often supporting leaders who contradict Christian virtues.

   Notable Quote:

   "This is a kind of Christianity that perceives itself increasingly as being at war with the culture around it."
   – Jonathan Rauch

3. Thick Christianity ([13:07] Jonathan Rauch):
   Represents a robust, engaged form of Christianity that actively contributes to civic life without compromising its foundational values. Rauch highlights the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) as a model for this approach, advocating for patience, negotiation, and mutual accommodation in politics.

   Notable Quote:

   "What the Church is doing is modeling a whole civic theology."
   – Jonathan Rauch

Evangelicalism and Political Shifts

French and Rauch discuss the historical alignment of evangelicals with the Republican Party, especially evident in the support for Donald Trump despite notable moral and ethical controversies. The conversation reflects on the evangelical community's transition from advocating high moral standards to supporting a leader whose actions starkly contrast those values.

Notable Quote:

[10:55] Jonathan Rauch: "When certain Christians who said they never would support him turned around and supported him... I kind of shame facedly had to go back... to say, well, I guess you were right."

Rauch analyzes this phenomenon as a defensive reaction to perceived declines in the church's cultural dominance, leading to increased political entanglement that ultimately undermines both the church and democratic values.

The LDS Church as a Model for Thick Christianity

Rauch elaborates on how the LDS Church exemplifies Thick Christianity. He cites the church's 2015 compromise in Utah, where it collaborated with the LGBT rights movement to enact anti-discrimination protections, showcasing a commitment to mutual accommodation and civic engagement grounded in Christian teachings.

Notable Quote:

[13:07] Jonathan Rauch: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Utah leads a compromise with the LGBT rights community... That got my attention."

Rauch emphasizes that thick Christianity involves a comprehensive civic theology that teaches Christians how to engage in politics ethically and constructively, aligning political actions with the teachings of Jesus.

Future of Religion and Democracy in America

The discussion transitions to the broader implications of declining organized religion and the potential for a renaissance of Christian values that support democracy. Rauch expresses cautious optimism, advocating for Christians to rediscover and elevate core teachings that uphold democratic principles.

Notable Quote:

[18:07] Jonathan Rauch: "If Christians can do the work of rediscovering and elevating those elements of the Christian faith which uphold our democracy... addressing my Christian fellow citizens and saying, why not give Jesus a try?"

Rauch remains realistic about the challenges, acknowledging generational shifts away from organized religion but remains committed to the belief that reconnecting Christianity with democratic ideals can foster a healthier societal framework.

Conclusions and Takeaways

The episode concludes with a mutual appreciation between French and Rauch for their enlightening conversation. French acknowledges Rauch's influence in shaping his understanding of faith and democracy, while Rauch underscores the importance of Christians embracing their ethical teachings to strengthen democratic institutions.

Final Notable Quote:

[19:26] David French: "John, thank you so much for joining me. I've learned a great deal and I've enjoyed this conversation very much."

[19:32] Jonathan Rauch: "I have too, David. God bless."

Key Insights

• Alignment of Values: Christianity's core values, when fully embraced, are essential for the maintenance and flourishing of American democracy.

• Risk of Secularization and Partisanship: Thin and sharp forms of Christianity weaken democratic foundations by either commodifying faith or entrenching political divisions.

• Thick Christianity as a Solution: A committed, engaged form of Christianity can bridge gaps between faith and governance, fostering a more resilient democratic society.

• Modeling After the LDS Church: Emulating practices from the LDS Church, such as mutual accommodation and civic theology, can offer a blueprint for integrating faith with democratic participation.

Conclusion

This episode of The Opinions offers a compelling exploration of the symbiotic relationship between Christianity and American democracy. Through the insightful dialogue between David French and Jonathan Rauch, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of how different manifestations of Christianity impact the political landscape and what pathways exist to harmonize faith with democratic ideals for a sustainable future.