Podcast Summary: "Why Politics Feels So Cruel Right Now"
Episode Details:
- Title: The Opinions
- Host: Michelle Cottle
- Guests: David French, David Brooks, Jamelle Bouie
- Release Date: June 2, 2025
Introduction
In this episode of The Opinions by The New York Times Opinion, host Michelle Cottle delves into the pervasive sense of cruelty in contemporary politics. Joining her are esteemed commentators David French, David Brooks, and Jamelle Bouie. The discussion centers on the perceived decline of empathy in political discourse and its ramifications across the American political landscape.
The Decline of Empathy in Politics
David French:
"We frequently talk about how politics follows culture, and I feel like we're seeing a prime example of this in what might be darkly characterized as the death of empathy." [01:02]
French introduces the idea that a cultural shift is leading to reduced empathy in politics. He suggests that when individuals feel anxious or disenfranchised, they resist messages that diminish their grievances and instead seek validation and justification for their frustrations. This shift, he posits, has intensified divisions, particularly affecting conservative men who feel marginalized by progressive movements emphasizing intersectionality.
Key Points:
- Shift from Empathy to Justification: People seek validation for their feelings rather than comparative suffering.
- Impact on Conservative Men: Progressive focus on a hierarchy of oppression has left conservative men feeling defensive and neglected.
- Perception of Empathy as Weakness: Growing sentiment that empathy is a vulnerability rather than a strength.
Historical Context of Anti-Empathy Sentiments
Jamelle Bouie:
"I recently read a really interesting book, America Last, which traces the contempt for empathy back to the 1920s and 30s." [02:34]
Bouie provides a historical perspective, arguing that disdain for empathy within American conservatism is not a new phenomenon. She references figures like William F. Buckley, Joseph McCarthy, and Charles Lindbergh to illustrate that anti-empathy sentiments have long been embedded in the conservative movement.
Key Points:
- Long-standing Conservatism: Anti-empathy has roots in early 20th-century conservative rhetoric.
- Resurgence in the Trump Era: The MAGA movement has brought these sentiments back to the forefront of national politics.
The Trump Phenomenon and the Attack on Empathy
David Brooks:
"In parts of the Trump right, there's an idea that anything that makes you feel sympathy or empathy for human beings in distress is toxic." [04:29]
Brooks discusses how the Trump era has intensified the attack on empathy, particularly within evangelical and hardline conservative circles. He observes a deliberate devaluation of empathetic responses, branding them as signs of weakness. This, he argues, stems from a feeling of neglect among certain demographics who believe their concerns are being overlooked.
Notable Quote:
"The predicament of a refugee fleeing Afghanistan... the response is toxic empathy that you just need to be more hard-nosed." [Excerpt from Brooks]
Key Points:
- Empathy as Sin: Empathy is sometimes portrayed as detrimental, especially towards those perceived as enemies or burdens.
- Cultural Exclusion: Individuals feeling left out of the national empathy narrative may respond by rejecting empathy altogether.
Zero-Sum Mentality in Politics
Jamelle Bouie:
"The MAGA Right is completely invested in a zero-sum notion of every single social interaction." [14:30]
Bouie critiques the pervasive zero-sum thinking within the MAGA movement, where any gain for one group is seen as a loss for another. This mentality obstructs positive-sum interactions and fosters an environment of competition rather than collaboration.
Key Points:
- Zero-Sum Thinking: Belief that resources and opportunities are limited, fostering resentment.
- Impact on Policies: Opposition to international students and foreign aid is framed as protecting American interests, despite evidence of mutual benefits.
Notable Quote:
"Everything is zero-sum. It just sort of anathema to Trump." [15:02]
The Erosion of Compassionate Conservatism
David Brooks:
"From the Bush era's faith-based initiatives to the current Republican stance, there's been a significant shift away from compassionate conservatism." [17:03]
Brooks highlights the transformation within the Republican Party, moving away from the compassionate initiatives of past administrations to a more transactional and exclusionary approach under Trump. This shift has alienated traditional allies and reshaped the party's relationship with religious communities.
Key Points:
- Shift in Republican Values: Transition from compassionate support to transactional political alliances.
- Impact on Christian Organizations: Reduction in government support for faith-based initiatives under conservative leadership.
Gender Gap and Empathy
David Brooks:
"If women are not taking men's jobs, we're talking about women participating in an expanding economy... The constant battle of each against all is the absolute enemy of empathy." [27:44]
Brooks discusses the emerging gender gap, where increasing support and opportunities for women are perceived by some as threats to men. This perception fuels scorn and reduces empathy across gender lines, exacerbating political and social divisions.
Key Points:
- Empathy for Young Men: Growing lack of empathy for boys facing educational and mental health challenges.
- Perceived Anti-Female Sentiment: Some left-leaning spaces exhibit scorn for men, complicating the empathy landscape.
Challenges for the Democratic Party
Jamelle Bouie:
"Declining social trust means it's tough to sell the idea that we're going to take some tax dollars from you to provide broad benefits." [25:16]
Bouie outlines the difficulties Democrats face in promoting empathetic and redistributive policies amidst a cultural shift towards individualism and skepticism of government efficacy. She emphasizes the need for effective service delivery and rebuilding social trust to regain support.
Key Points:
- Mistrust in Government: Skepticism about the government's ability to efficiently manage and allocate resources.
- Cultural Push Towards Individualism: Societal trends favoring self-reliance over community-oriented policies.
Prospects for Restoring Empathy in Politics
David Brooks:
"The people who are driving this attack on empathy are not suffering people, they're the influencers and the leaders." [31:23]
Brooks expresses pessimism about the immediate return of empathy in politics, attributing the current anti-empathy sentiment to influential figures rather than to widespread public suffering. He suggests that empathy might only be restored through a gradual cultural and political shift away from current leadership dynamics.
Jamelle Bouie:
"American culture contains antecedents and strains that are producing this sort of anti-empathy moment, but there are traditions of social solidarity that may reassert themselves." [32:07]
Bouie offers a more cyclical view, positing that despite current anti-empathy trends, America's inherent traditions of community and solidarity could eventually bring empathy back into the political mainstream.
Key Points:
- Influence of Leaders: Anti-empathy is perpetuated by influential figures rather than grassroots movements.
- Cultural Resilience: Deep-rooted traditions of empathy and social solidarity may resurface to counteract current trends.
Conclusion
The episode concludes with a reflection on the entrenched nature of anti-empathy sentiments in American politics and the significant challenges ahead in reversing this trend. The guests acknowledge the complexity of fostering empathy in a highly polarized environment but remain cautiously optimistic that cultural and political efforts can gradually restore empathetic discourse.
Final Notable Quote:
"It might just have to happen once Trump fades from the scene." [32:47] – Jamelle Bouie
Notable Quotes with Timestamps
-
David French:
"We frequently talk about how politics follows culture, and I feel like we're seeing a prime example of this in what might be darkly characterized as the death of empathy." [01:02] -
David Brooks:
"In parts of the Trump right, there's an idea that anything that makes you feel sympathy or empathy for human beings in distress is toxic." [04:29] -
Jamelle Bouie:
"The MAGA Right is completely invested in a zero-sum notion of every single social interaction." [14:30] -
David Brooks:
"The constant battle of each against all is the absolute enemy of empathy." [27:44] -
Jamelle Bouie:
"American culture contains antecedents and strains that are producing this sort of anti-empathy moment, but there are traditions of social solidarity that may reassert themselves." [32:07]
Final Thoughts
"The Opinions" episode "Why Politics Feels So Cruel Right Now" offers a thorough exploration of the declining role of empathy in American politics. Through insightful dialogue, the hosts and guests dissect the historical and contemporary factors contributing to this shift, highlighting the challenges and potential pathways to rekindle empathetic discourse in a deeply divided society.