Discover AWE Daily with Oprah and Dacher Keltner

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Oprah Podcast — “Discover AWE Daily with Oprah and Dacher Keltner”

Date: February 3, 2026
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Dacher Keltner, Professor of Psychology at UC Berkeley, author of Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the science and transformative power of “awe,” featuring pioneering psychologist Dacher Keltner. Oprah and Keltner delve into what awe is, why it matters, and how it’s accessible to us all—no matter our life situation. Their conversation covers the eight wonders of awe, personal stories of loss and healing, and how awe can help foster resilience, connection, and even societal healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Awe

• Oprah sets the tone by introducing Keltner’s personal story:

  “I've taught happiness to hundreds of thousands of people... And was thrown out of my first meditation class for laughing while we chanted I am a being of purple fire.” (Oprah quoting Keltner, [00:00])

• What is Awe?
  Keltner clarifies:

  “Awe is an emotion you feel when you encounter vast things... And then it's mysterious to you. You don't quite understand it immediately, and it provokes you to wonder... awe is when we encounter vast mysteries.” ([02:48])

• Awe vs. Wonder:
  • Awe = emotional response to something vast
  • Wonder = the cognitive process that follows as you reflect and try to make sense of it

  “Awe is an emotion you feel... Wonder is the cognitive state after awe...” ([03:14])

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2. Why Awe Matters

• Impact on Well-being:
  • Awe can reduce depression and anxiety
  • Helps us feel physically healthier and more socially connected
  • Just a minute of awe daily can improve outlook ([04:07])

  “It makes you feel less depressed and more happy. It helps your body physically... even if you experience awe by yourself, with music or nature, you feel connected to community.” —Keltner ([04:28])

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3. The Eight Wonders of Awe

Keltner’s research distilled eight common sources of awe worldwide:

1. Moral Beauty (Top Source)

• Seeing acts of courage, kindness, justice, or humility.
• Examples: Teachers, nurses, acts of altruism, even moving commercials.

  “The most common source and most universal is what we call moral beauty... when you are moved by the courage and kindness, sense of justice and humility of other people.” —Keltner ([11:58])

2. Collective Effervescence

• The powerful shared energy of a group: sports, concerts, religious or community gatherings.

  “That's the collective effervescence you talked about.” —Oprah ([07:01])

3. Nature

• Awe from oceans, trees, animals, skies, seasons.
• Science shows we’re hard-wired to find nature awe-inspiring; exposure has measurable health benefits.

  “People know nature is awesome... And the science is astonishing...” —Keltner ([15:05])

4. Music

• Uplifting music, especially live or communal experiences.

  “You can go hear music that means a lot to you. And within a millisecond, you are having goosebumps, you're tearing up, you're synchronizing with other people and it is an out of body experience.” —Keltner ([06:33])

5. Visual Design

• Architecture, art, patterns—humans are attracted to “sacred geometries.”

  “Our minds are wired to detect these sacred geometries of the visual world.” —Keltner ([17:06])

6. Spiritual or Religious Experiences

• Sense of the divine; feeling connected to greater purpose or universal truths.

  “Awe is the emotion that tracks that relationship to spirit and the divine.” ([17:47])

7. Life and Death, Life Cycle

• Birth, death, observing the passing of life stages.

  “You just see life come in. The life cycle begins. Likewise, you could now think about... why are people awestruck by spring? Right. Because it's this maximum moment of life in nature.” —Keltner ([18:25])

8. Epiphanies and Big Ideas

• Moments of realization, deep understanding, or intellectual revelation.

  “People feel awe about these big ideas, you know, AI, quantum physics, you know, evolution, et cetera.” —Keltner ([19:44])

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4. Personal Story: Grief and Loss

• Keltner recounts how the loss of his brother temporarily took away his capacity for awe and how intentionally seeking awe helped him heal.

  “Through grief, I heard his voice. I felt his hand on my back. He was saying things to me, and he changed how I look at the universe, that there are other dimensions that we don't understand...” ([08:17])

• After loss, Keltner actively sought out nature, music, and philosophical inquiry to rekindle awe:

  “I very intentionally said, you know, I'm going to go in search of the wonders of life... and so it took a while, but it changed my life.” ([09:52])

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5. Awe Is Available to Everyone, Every Day

• Awe is accessible without travel or special resources; daily moments can count.

  “People think awe is mysterious. It takes a lot of money...and that's just not true. Around the world, people feel awe a few times a week.” —Keltner ([10:31])

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6. Awe vs. Gratitude

• Oprah: “I've had a gratitude practice for decades now... But awe is something different.” ([22:01])
• Keltner: “Gratitude is really... about more concrete things in your world... Awe is fundamentally about something vast that you don't understand.” ([22:42])

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7. Physical and Social Benefits of Awe

• Short exposure to awe can reduce pain, lower blood pressure, calm the nervous system, and decrease inflammatory markers.

  “A couple minutes of awe reduces physical pain... benefits your heart by activating what's called the vagus nerve... reduces inflammation in the body.” —Keltner ([21:08])

• Awe fosters empathy, diminishes social and political divides:

  “Our study found that people on opposite sides... once they felt awe, they didn't demonize or dehumanize their opponents. Right. They saw the humanity in them.” —Keltner ([25:38])

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8. Awalk: A Practical Tool

• The “awe walk” is a simple, evidence-backed practice:

  “Once a week you go out... and you look for awe... natural awe, moral beauty... So all you have to do if you're looking for awe is build it into your daily routines.” ([29:12])

  • Oprah: “Looking for awewalks?” —([29:57])

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9. Awe in the Most Unlikely Places: San Quentin

• Keltner shares stories from leading a restorative justice program at San Quentin Prison, demonstrating awe's accessibility:

  “And in the middle of my talk, I was like, I have to do this. And I said, what brings you awe in San Quentin? ...my grandchild learning how to read, getting my college diploma, you know, the Quran, meditating...these are the Best answers I've ever heard. You know, they are a lesson that we can find awe anywhere.” ([33:56])

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10. Awe as Healing for Trauma and Grief

• Awe is powerful for people experiencing trauma, especially veterans:

  “We took veterans on a half day rafting trip... led to a 32% drop in PTSD... for those of us who are experiencing trauma or grief, be thinking about those immersive experiences of awe.” ([35:14])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On accessible awe:

  “Your ability to experience awe is within reach of every human being. Even at San Quentin Prison.” —Oprah ([32:22])

• On awe as a unifier:

  “There are things that we can cultivate. So our culture, as you know, is obsessed with this whole idea of ranking who's best... The question is, how can schools, how can families, how can communities make space for awe...” —Oprah ([27:18])

• On teaching children awe:

  “Let them wander. Give them more spare time... let them do music and visual art... get them to reflect on the people who move them.” —Keltner ([28:13])

• On awe’s power in hardship:

  “We can cultivate awe in the hardest places.” —Keltner ([33:59])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Defining Awe and Wonder – [02:22]
• Why Awe Matters (Well-Being & Health) – [04:07]
• Personal Story of Loss & Awe – [07:44]
• The Eight Wonders of Awe – [11:46]
• Main Source: Moral Beauty – [11:58]
• How to Practice Awe Daily – [29:12]
• Awe in San Quentin Prison – [32:24]
• Awe’s Role in Healing Trauma – [35:14]
• Closing Reflections & Purpose of the Book – [36:51]

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Tone and Style

• Inviting, poetic, relatable
• Candid sharing of grief and vulnerability (Keltner)
• Oprah’s trademark wisdom, warmth, and personal anecdotes

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers both practical tools and deep philosophical insight into awe. Whether through moral acts, nature, music, group experiences, or personal reflection, awe is presented as an emotion with profound potential for individual healing and collective unity. Both Oprah and Keltner encourage listeners to intentionally seek and savor awe in their everyday lives—whether on a walk, in a classroom, or even through the toughest of life’s passages.

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For more on awe and daily practices, check out Dacher Keltner’s book, Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life.

Transcript

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love how you begin the book. Your introduction. This is funny to me. You said, I have taught happiness to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. It's not obvious why I ended up doing this work. I've been a pretty wound up, anxious person for significant chunks of my life. And I love this. And was thrown out of my first meditation class for laughing while we chanted I am a being of purple fire. When I read that, I was like, what kind of meditation class was that? I'm a being of purple fire.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yep. My best friend Memo and I got tossed out of that class in college.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

You know, and that's the point. You know, I struggle to meditate. I am wound up. I can't. That's just what I got, you know, in my nervous system. And awe, really, As I wrote this book, in a very hard time in my life, I was like, yeah, that's what grounded me in life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Oprah Podcast. I'm so pleased, honored, actually, that you chose to spend time with us here, where my intention is to offer some inspiration and maybe a bit of breathing space from the hustle of your day or from the endless barrage of news hitting your timeline. Hope you all are watching that, being careful about that, because it can just be too much. But I'm excited for you to hear from my guest today because he spent decades studying, searching, researching for the secret to this question, how can we live a good life? Yeah, that's really what we all are in search of, right? How can we live a good life? And he says the answer is really simple and something any one of us can access at any time and anywhere, no matter your background, no matter your circumstances. His name is Dacher Keltner, and he's a professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, and the host of the award winning podcast, the Science of Happiness. I didn't even know there was such a podcast until researching for this. And I just recently read his bestselling book, the new Science of everyday wonderful and how it can transform your life. Now, I read it and thought, this man is speaking my language. And that's why he's now here in the teahouse. Dacher Keltner, Hello.

[Dacher Keltner]

Hello, Oprah. It's nice to be with you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Nice to be here and an honor. Thank you. When you first started on this path, I think you found there wasn't even a real definition of awe. So what is awe? Let's start with letting everybody know what we're actually talking about.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, that's actually A tough question, Right. People have been trying to define the sense of the mystical and the sublime.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And the word awesome is thrown around.

[Dacher Keltner]

As a song a little too much these days.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. Yes.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. So awe is an emotion you feel when you encounter vast things, most typically giant redwoods. Right. A vast piece of music, somebody who really inspires you with the size of their character. And then it's mysterious to you. You don't quite understand it immediately, and it provokes you to won. So very simply, awe is when we encounter vast mysteries.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Awe and wonder. The same thing.

[Dacher Keltner]

No, philosophers pull awe and wonder apart. Awe is an emotion you feel. I see an incredible tree or a sunset, and then wonder is the cognitive state after awe by which I try to make sense of things. Right, right. One of my favorite examples is Newton and Descartes were these famous scientists and philosophers, and they were awestruck by rainbows. You know, how do rainbows exist? And then in a state of wonder, they figured it out. They did math and color theory and figured out how when light bends through water, it produces a rainbow. Ah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So awe and wonder, obviously, are not the same. Wonder is what comes after the aw moment.

[Dacher Keltner]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. And tell us why, as you do in the book. But most people who are listening to us now probably haven't read awe, so tell us why it matters.

[Dacher Keltner]

Well, when you look at our world, Oprah, and you see the crises of mind, you know, depression and anxiety at historic highs, body, a lot of people are suffering pain and community. You know, our surgeon general, former Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, whom you know well, the crisis of loneliness.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Loneliness.

[Dacher Keltner]

A minute of our day helps us with those crises. It makes you feel less depressed and more happy. It helps your body physically. And even if you experience awe by yourself, with music or nature, you feel connected to community. And so, you know, when I started to look at these scientific findings and thinking about our crises, our shared crises, I was like, you know, there's almost nothing better than a couple minutes of awe a day.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. And nothing is better also then shared.

[Dacher Keltner]

Awe, which you call collective effervescence.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Collective effervescence. And a lot of people who are listening and watching us right now, you all have experienced this.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You know, I remember having a gospel brunch here on the lawn many years ago, and I had Gladys Knight and Dionne Warwick and Mariah Carey, and all of them were here, and someone was passing the mic, and literally everybody in the audience, all of us, were in collective effervescence. We had never seen anything like It. Or experienced anything like it. And it was like the spirit came in to each of them and then entered us. It was spectacular. But lots of people experience this in sports, sporting events.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Concerts.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I remember just recently, this past year, I went to see gypsy with Audra McDonnell.

[Dacher Keltner]

Uh huh.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And that performance of hers was out. I could start weeping now. Was out of body. Was an out of body experience. Yeah. And so was Nicole in Sunset Boulevard. Out of body. So you were just amazed that a human being can do that. I was like, I literally afterwards wrote both of them a letter saying to see somebody vibrating at their highest level possible, you just know that it doesn't get any higher than that.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Brings awe to you.

[Dacher Keltner]

It does. And it's just remarkable. And I love your descriptions of it, Oprah. I mean, music's a classic example. Gospel music.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dacher Keltner]

As good as any. Right. And it astounds me and it speaks to how ready we are to experience awe, which is you can go hear music that means a lot to you. And within a millisecond, you are having goosebumps, you're tearing up, you're synchronizing with other people and it is an out of body experience. You leave the self.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

And become part of this collective. And you're hugging each other and crying and proposing camping trips.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's the collective effervescence you talked about. Well, in awe, one of the things, the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life. One of the things you did was you asked over 2,000 people from all over the world, different faiths, different backgrounds, different life situations, different educations. And you ask them, what is an experience of awe that you've had when you encountered a vast mystery that transcends your world? I'm asking that of you all. Now, for you, it was, I mean, what most people wouldn't consider an awesome moment. But for you, it was the death of your younger brother.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Can you tell us that story?

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. You know, I was lucky to be raised by parents who really cultivated a sense of wonder. You know, Rachel Carson, the great environmentalist, teach your child to wonder. And I had a younger brother, Rolf, who was a companion in awe. And we, you know, we grew up listening to music in the late sixties in Laurel Canyon and wandering the foothills of the Sierras. And we did the all, all of the awe inspiring things in life together. And when he passed away first.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It.

[Dacher Keltner]

It was, it was pure grief and panic and anxiety and, and the moment of his passing was awe inspiring. It was, you know, seeing Something transcendent about his bo. Something there in his spirit. Seeing the space around him as he was leaving reveal new dimensions out there. I'm a scientist, you know, I didn't know what to make of this. I had no religious background. And then the big question, which is, how is he going to stay with me? And through grief. I heard his voice. I felt his hand on my back. He was saying things to me, and he changed how I look at the universe, that there are other dimensions that we don't understand, that beings who leave us can be with us forever, and that there's a cycle to life, and that's one of the wonders of life, is the extraordinary miracle of life, is its beginning, its growth, and its ending, and that it repeats itself. That's just a law of the universe. It was the first time I understood that when I had to see my life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Watch your brother die.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And you said that after your brother's death that you lost your ability for a while to experience awe.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Why? From the grief?

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. I. I mean, grief just shut down. Yeah. Grief is panic and breathlessness and waking up at all hours and grasping for who was gone. My brother and I shared a narrative about life. I couldn't hear his voice that I heard all the time. And it was strange, Oprah. Here I was studying this emotion, giving it to people, and I just couldn't feel it, you know?

[Oprah Winfrey]

So how did you get it back?

[Dacher Keltner]

I very intentionally said, you know, I'm going to go in search of the wonders of life. I'm going to find some moral beauty. I'm going to be out in nature. I'm going to listen to music that I don't understand, like classical music, or I'm going to think about the big ideas that matter to me. And so it took a while, but it changed my life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so I like the idea of people understanding that there is awe in the everyday.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So are you one of those people who, as a scientist, you've written the book and then do you actually practice it?

[Dacher Keltner]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do you find awe in your everyday?

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. You know, I think one of the most important findings from our research is people think awe is mysterious. It takes a lot of money. You gotta travel somewhere to find it. And that's just not true. Around the world, people feel awe a few times a week. And in those stories we gathered from 26 countries, it was right around them, you know, and Einstein said, awe is a basic state of the mind that we can access anytime. And so I make it a practice to Find awe on a daily basis.

[Oprah Winfrey]

After a quick break, we'll be back with psychology professor and researcher Dacher Keltner, who will share the eight everyday experiences that can inspire awe in all of us. Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. Dacher Keltner shares the number one experience that is most likely to inspire awe. This one might surprise you. You say there are eight experiences that inspire people to feel awe. You call them, actually the eight wonders in life. People may be surprised to learn what the most common reason for awe is. I know y' all are gonna be surprised by this.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, this is. You know, I'm not.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Cause I experienced it every day. 25 years of doing a show and seeing it happen.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

You have a career that cultivates moral beauty.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

And when we got these stories rolling in from Indonesia and China and Mexico and other countries, the most common source and most universal is what we call moral beauty, which is when you are moved by the courage and kindness, sense of justice and humility of other people. And it is, you know, people start writing about, oh, yeah, my. My grandmother or my. My teacher, you know, often teachers. This nurse who helped me with pain, my mother, my father, et cetera. And the stories are astonishing. You know, of. Of encountering a fellow human stands up to injustice or gives away some resources or is courageous facing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I remember watching the news and seeing a young, burly black guy standing out in the middle of the water, and this was either a flood in Houston or flood in Dallas. I can't remember which flood it was. But he'd been out there all day just, you know, handing down sandbags.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And I remember him, you know, looking exhausted but exuberant and him saying, this is what Texans do. This is what Texans do. And my eyes watered when I. When I. When I saw it, because I just thought, wow, you know, he's tired, he's got his own family, but he's out there. And this is what Texans do. So seeing someone do something extraordinary for somebody else.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I remember years ago, there was a Maxwell House coffee commercial around Christmas time, and there was an elderly lady, and the young woman next door goes and takes a Christmas tree, and they put the ornaments on the Christmas tree together and then have a cup of Maxwell House coffee. And at the end of it, I'm like, that's commercial moral beauty, right? Yeah. But the idea of sharing what you have with someone who doesn't.

[Dacher Keltner]

It is. But it's just remarkable to me that you can see a stranger helping another person in the Streets. You don't know any of these people, and you're tearing up. Right. You can hear a story from another country about the courage of a woman facing a disease, and it can change your life. Right. And that is a mystery for me scientifically, why is it that that's so powerful, but it definitely is the universal source of all.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So that is the number one. It is wonder of life is people experiencing other people doing extraordinary, awesome things. Right? Yes. And you call that moral beauty.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And because it evokes this feeling, like you said, of tearing up. And it's almost like you're hearing a phenomenal piece of music. Humans seem beautiful. They seem transcendent. Right. They're not part of the mundane world anymore. So it has this beauty quality to it that we've been interested in for a long time.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So what are the other seven we talked about? Number two, which is collective effervescence. Right. That's being in the. That's everybody in the football game and your team and feeling that. That. Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

Or the gospel concert.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Or the gospel concert or wherever. The collective effervescence. And the third is nature. Yeah, let's talk about that.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. I mean, you know, the science is a great place to begin. People know nature is awesome. You know, from oceans to clouds to redwood trees to flowers to spring to the sounds of birds. And the science is astonishing, which is that we're now learning that we are wired to be inspired and moved by nature. You know, if I hear running water, it activates parts of my heart. Right. That calm me down. If I hear birdsong, parts of the brain light up that feel rewarding. If I smell certain scents, like the trees around here, that activates specific chemical processes in your brain that make you feel part of something larger, the ecosystem.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And isn't that the whole idea of every awesome experience is that it takes you out of your ego self and allows you to feel that you are a part of something bigger than your small self.

[Dacher Keltner]

And that took us 10 years to figure out. And you just put it in one sentence, so thanks a lot. But you know, it. Yeah. Time and time again, we started to realize it. Moments of awe in nature, moral beauty, music, etc. That nagging voice of the ego quiets down your to do list and your sense of status. And what? It just quiets down. In fact, the brain regions of the ego quiet down.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Dacher Keltner]

And importantly, what you said, which is you become more aware of how you're connected to larger things than you, be it a musical Tradition, gospel, music, a social cause, the environment around you, the.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Garden, that's really what's going on.

[Dacher Keltner]

That is what's going on.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And even in that collective effervescence, what you're really feeling is that you're a part of something that's bigger than you.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's profound.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it's profound and needed. The fourth is music. Yep, we talked about that. Fifth is visual design. I thought that was interesting. Like, great architecture or paintings.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. I mean, you think about the, you know, the Islamic tile patterns of the Mesoamerican basket weaving and sculptures and temples, and our minds are wired to detect these sacred geometries of the visual world.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Even though we don't even know that's what we're detecting.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. You know, but you feel struck by the facade of a cathedral or some painting. I was lucky to be raised by a painter, my dad, who got me looking at paintings early in life, and they changed my life. And so, yeah, the visual world is a very rich realm of awe to explore.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And then spiritual or religious experiences.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. And it's important because, you know, in this complicated time in American history, spirit and religion can divide. And in some sense, as William James argued, underlying that is this feeling of the divine or mystical experience. 81% of Americans feel a sense of the divine. Half of those people find it in nature. And awe is the emotion that tracks that relationship to spirit and the divine. One of the many sort of transcendent.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Emotions, like stories also of life and death. Number seven. Yeah, tell us about that.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. You know, we started getting stories around the world, watching children be born, infants be born, grandmothers, parents, friends, relatives. You just see life come in. The life cycle begins. Likewise, you could now think about, you know, why are people awestruck by spring? Right. Because it's this maximum moment of life in nature. It's like everything is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And blooming. Yes. Coming forth.

[Dacher Keltner]

Right. Life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

But life, it's a law like pattern. It. It ends. And I remember, Oprah, when I started to talk publicly about the science before the book, I remember very clearly this. I was just asking this group, like, when have you felt awe? And this woman raises her hand, and she said, I was holding my sister's hand as she had her last breath in life. And I was awestruck by her place in my life, that things like this end. She continues, like I felt with my brother Rolf. And so the life cycle is a very underappreciated but reliable source of awe.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, also, that brings us to number Eight which is epiphanies or suddenly understanding the essential truths about life. Which is what happened to you also with your brother in that space right when he was dying.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, it, you know, and, and people feel awe about these big ideas, you know, AI, quantum physics, you know, evolution, et cetera. And for me, the challenge of my brother's passing, not only concretely to live a life without my companion in awe. My brother was to understand what life means, you know, which is it is a cycle for us physically and we, we all have to lose people. You know, Buddhism, the first noble truth is we, we grasp that suffering and things continue and they go onward and we grow and we learn. And for me, I had to grasp that we're not just cells and neurons and bodies, that we're more out of the experience. And I feel that to this day that, you know, I feel my brother's with me and that there's something beyond what I thought was all that there is to nature.

[Oprah Winfrey]

This has to be physically good. Actually physically good for us too. I mean, I would think your blood pressure goes down, all the other things in your body that need to mellow out and chill.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

When you're experiencing, if you've had an awesome moment or an awe filled moment, that it would change your neurosystem.

[Dacher Keltner]

I even felt it when you're describing this gospel concert. I started to feel my body change. And, and we've made a lot of progress in understanding that. And what we know, you know, is a couple minutes of awe reduces physical pain. It reduces long Covid symptoms. It benefits your heart by activating what's called the vagus nerve, this big bundle of nerves in your chest that calms your body down. Like you said, it reduces inflammation in the body. The immune system heats up your body to kill pathogens. If you feel chronically threatened by poverty or racism or misogyny and your body will be heated up, inflamed, It's a very troubling condition for your health. Aw. Cools down that system and it's amazing. And so it makes me bullish in promoting this to medical doctors.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And how is it different than gratitude? Because I've had a gratitude practice for decades now where I do five things. I have volumes of gratitude journals. I'm constantly, always, even when I'm just walking around, you know, my property here, in a state of gratitude, appreciation, reverence. But awe is something different.

[Dacher Keltner]

It is. And we call these, these self transcendent emotions where you get out of the self and really appreciate what's around you. Reverence, like you said, very much love that word. Word gratitude is really not as mysterious as awe.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

And it's really about more concrete things in your world.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. That you appreciate.

[Dacher Keltner]

Right. That you appreciate. Awe is fundamentally about something vast that you don't understand. It's mysterious.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So, I mean, after reading your book awe, I was thinking differently about, you know, my everyday experiences, and one of the experiences that I've shared with you all here before that I still love, and I still think it's an awe, and I understand that. Is this an awe moment or is this a gratitude moment? What is that moment where you're on the plane? You probably experienced it because you couldn't get in at first because of fog.

[Dacher Keltner]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

There's that moment that no matter how rainy, dreary, miserable it is, you shoot through the clouds. And you're up above the clouds.

[Dacher Keltner]

Oh, yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you're looking down through the clouds.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I am in awe every time that happens.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm just like, how am I up here?

[Dacher Keltner]

And that's all right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's all.

[Dacher Keltner]

Suddenly you're like, this is vast. This is vast on the Earth. And now I'm in space.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And now I'm here.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. And it's. How did this happen? How do planes work?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it's so beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

And that's a. And, you know, that's just a classic experience of all, which is you suddenly encounter something vast, and you can't. Your ordinary mind, if you will. You know, just making sense of our daily lives can make sense of it. And I feel that about flying, too. Just, you know, appreciating the earth from 30,000ft.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And I have one of my. I've had 21 dogs. And now Sadie is about to. She's going to turn 17. And the other day we were walking her, and she has trouble getting down the stairs sometimes. Right. So now I carry her down the stairs. And then we were out on the yard, and she just started cantering, like, running. And I stood there. I think I was in awe. Like, how is she doing that when you can't walk down the stairs?

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, yeah. I think that, you know, it's almost like moral beauty. Right. Which is we marvel at the exceptional qualities of other life forms around us.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

And so you're sensing something, a spirit in her, a transcendent spirit, that something.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Came over her, and she just decided, I'm gonna run across this yard.

[Dacher Keltner]

Oh, yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

When we come back from this short break, Decker Keltner says Awe has the potential to heal social, cultural and political divisions. We are back with Professor Decker Keltner talking about his bestselling book, the New Science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life. You talked about in awe. You talked about these fractious times. I mean, yeah. Politically, socially, culturally, how do you think awe or if it can be a bridge to help heal divisions, is that possible?

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, I do. I mean, you know, I'm always worried about structural things, racism, misogyny, inequality. But I do feel that the. And we have empirical data for this, that feelings of awe socially make you appreciate your shared humanity and they make you aware of the bigger thing that you're part of. Right. And our study found that people on opposite sides of the issues of police brutality and abortion, once they felt awe, they didn't demonize or dehumanize their opponents. Right. They saw the humanity in them. And you know, Oprah, when you think about there are sources of awe that unite people in this country. 330 million people go to the national parks. It is unlike anything. And they are really, they're environmentalists, they're radicals, they're hunters, they're, you know, sports people. And it unites them in a sense of common spirit. So it's worth remembering the big sources of awe that bring us together. The Constitution is awe inspiring as a document.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I didn't know that 300 million people were going to the national parks.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. And you can go for $20. It's anybody goes. There's a program for fourth grade kids to go put together by John Jarvis, the former director of the parks. So it's a unifying American experience, and it transcends our concerns in the moment about, you know, taxation or immigrants or the like. So there are things that we can cultivate.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So our culture, as you know, is obsessed with this whole idea of ranking who's best and when, when and how and, you know, who's number one and who's not. So the question is, how can schools, how can families, how can communities make space for awe for children growing up in an achievement driven, achievement oriented environment?

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. I mean, I worry about this a lot. And having raised two daughters and teach young people up at Berkeley and see the effects of our times, 90% rise in anxiety in young people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

90% rise.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. It's epidemic. And so what the science of awe tells us is get them off the junk of their devices and there's a lot of moral ugliness.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We know that. We know that. Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

Let them wander. Give them more spare time. And then, you know, let them do the things that we deprioritize of music and visual art. And the ones that I really like, Oprah, that I think we've deemphasized, are moral beauty. You know, get them to reflect on the people who move them. And then, you know, I think every child should be thinking about the big ideas they care about. And our educational system has kind of. I see this in our colleges. We don't think about like, what's the singular thing you want to be part of, you know, that you learn from in history? Is it justice, is it ameliorating suffering, or what have you. And so I think we've got to return to these, these old ways that we used to find meaning.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How would you advise those of us who are looking for more awe in our life? What is an awe practice?

[Dacher Keltner]

Well, one of my favorites we tested, which is the awok. The awok, and this is with Virginia Sturm at UC San Francisco. We tested it with people over the age of 75, where they're feeling a little more anxious, in pain, painful. And once a week you go out, a lot of people are walking in the United States, and you look for awe. You look for natural awe, right? You go do your walk at sunset or you go to a stand of trees. You look for moral beauty. You may go visit, walk past a park right where the kids are playing and all the wonders of play. So all you have to do if you're looking for awe is build it into your daily routines.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Looking for awewalks?

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. And there thousands of them are being led by practitioners of awoks now around the world. And it's an easy thing to do. A lot of people find their best exercise in walking and now just make it include a little mystery and wonder.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I had, speaking of mystery and wonder, I had Michael Pollan on and we were talking about the effects of. And also the late Dr. Roland Griffiths, and we're talking about the effects of psychedelics. What is the connection between psychedelics and awe?

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, well, you know, and it's, it's a little comical that it took a while to realize this in the scientific community, but psychedelics or spirit medicines in indigenous traditions produce these self transcendent states where the self quiets down and vanishes and dissolves, to use Michael's language, and opens us up to awe. Right. And now several labs really feel that's the active ingredient of a psychedelic experience, is to feel a deep sense of reverence and connection to an ecosystem. To feel really Moved by the compassion of fellow human beings to feel music in a different way. And that's true. I mean, in those experiences, awe is driving a lot of the benefits you get from psychedelics.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Next, psychology professor Decker Keltner explains how awe can be experienced even in the most unlikely of places. Welcome back. If you know somebody who might need an awe inspiring conversation right about now, send them the link to this episode. Let's get back to my conversation with bestselling author and the Science of Happiness podcast host Decker Keltner. I hope those of you who are listening incorporate this idea into your own life. The idea of an awe walk. And one of the things I appreciate about the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life. Awe. What I appreciate about it is it doesn't matter where you live or if you have a PhD or no D, it makes no difference. Your life circumstances, your ability to experience awe is within reach of every human being. Even at San Quentin Prison.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So tell us about your experiences there.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, you know, I had the great privilege of being part of the restorative justice program at San Quentin Prison. And I went in, and that's a remarkable program that's built upon the idea of moral beauty that, you know, all humans have goodness within them that they can find with the right guidance and practice, even if they've perpetrated harms and the like. And so I go in and give a talk, you know, and I think every American should go into an American prison and just to see that part of our state. And it's astonishing. It's, you know, it's. You don't have the wonders of life readily available. Solitary confinement, which I've worked on, is horrific. It's a form of cruel and unusual punishment. So I go in, I'm giving a talk. In this program, there are 180 prisoners. All of them work out a lot. I was the smallest person in that building, and they would have twisted me up like a pretzel. And they are working hard. And in the middle of my talk, I was like, I have to do this. And I said, what. What brings you awe in San Quentin? And there's this. There's this quiet. And then the answers came, you know, pouring forth. And it was, you know, my grandchild learning how to read, getting my college diploma, you know, the Quran, meditating.

[Oprah Winfrey]

My celli.

[Dacher Keltner]

My celli.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

You know, being outside at. And seeing the bay light. You know, San Quentin's on the San Francisco Bay, and, you know, Oprah, I was like, these are the Best answers I've ever heard. You know, they are a lesson that we can find awe anywhere. Right. And we can cultivate awe in the hardest places. And then, you know, my experience in San Quentin, and I will call out Darnell Washington, who's now, he led the restorative justice programs. He's a dear friend. Outside, he's teaching yoga and meditation that he learned inside to kids in LA. And we know that those programs work. There's an 80% drop in incarceration rates for young people because of people like Darnell. And when I look at his career, I'm like, it keeps me. It inspires me. So it was a life changing experience.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because we know that it seems to quiet the ego and help reduce stress. And it can be a part of also healing trauma, as you're talking about. That's why you don't have 80. That's why you have 80%.

[Dacher Keltner]

Right, exactly right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Healing trauma and grief or loss. And so many people who are traumatized are actually really grieving.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah, well put. Really well put. You know, I.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They're grieving the life that they wish they'd had. They're grieving mistakes they've made. They're grieving.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yeah. The family, what they could have been. And I was privileged to work with Stacy Baer, who's a veteran with the Sierra Club. And Stacy is a pioneer in grappling with the trauma of veterans. You know, they have twice the rates of PTSD of civilians. And his wisdom coming out of his life was get veterans outdoors. You know, get them on rock climbing and rafting and backpacking and skiing. You know, they don't necessarily want pharmaceutical cocktails. They want to challenge themselves and to find their courage. And so we took veterans on a half day rafting trip on the American river where my brother and I used to raft, which was amazing. And it led to a 32% drop in PTSD and, you know, for a week. Right. And so for those of us who are experiencing trauma or grief, be thinking about those immersive experiences of awe. Right. Like that half day rafting, 32% drop in all the symptoms of PTSD. And so, yeah, I am really excited about how awe can be a tool for transforming grief and trauma.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. And so you wrote the book because you wanted the experience for the reader to result in what?

[Dacher Keltner]

You know, Oprah, I've been teaching happiness for 25 years.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. You begin the book talking about teaching happiness. Yeah.

[Dacher Keltner]

And, you know, the world has changed and, you know, the loneliness and anxiety and self harm and depression and opioid use. And what I wanted to give people was the idea that they can experience awe whenever they're wanting to.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love how you begin the book, your introduction. This is funny to me. You said, I've taught happiness to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. It's not obvious why I ended up doing this work. I've been a pretty wound up, anxious person for significant chunks of my life. And I love this. And was thrown out of my first meditation class for laughing while we chanted I am a being of purple fire. And when I read that, when I read that, I was like, what kind of meditation class was that? I'm a being of purple fire.

[Dacher Keltner]

Yep. My best friend Memo and I got tossed out of that class in college. Yeah. You know, and that's the point, which is, you know, I struggle to meditate. I am wound up. I can't. That's just what I got, you know, in my nervous system. And awe, really. As I wrote this book, in a very hard time in my life, I was like, yeah, that's what grounded me in life is nature and the moral beauty of seeing Nelson Mandela come out of prison in Oakland, Colson.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wasn't that a day?

[Dacher Keltner]

I was just like, I think about that and I just got goosebumps, you know, that's with me today. So it was awe that lifted me up.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I appreciate you coming on, flying all the way through the fog, making it here. Thank you, Dacher Kellner, for this awe inspiring conversation. I hope that you all begin to take awe walks for yourselves and find more awe in your everyday. The book Awe the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life is available wherever you buy your books. Come hang out with us again next week. Go. Well, you can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.