The Oprah Podcast: "Do Dogs Really Love Us?" with Oprah and Dr. Carl Safina

Date: September 23, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of The Oprah Podcast delves into a question at the heart of every dog lover: Do dogs truly love us, or are they just motivated by food and comfort? Oprah Winfrey is joined by Dr. Carl Safina, renowned ecologist, conservationist, and author, for a wide-ranging discussion that stretches from the science of animal emotion to personal stories of canine heroism and the deeper, often-overlooked relationships between humans and animals. The conversation is further enriched by Dr. Gregory Berns, neuroscientist and author, and heartfelt listener stories emphasizing the intuitive, loyal, and life-saving natures of dogs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Emotional Lives of Animals

Dr. Carl Safina's Perspective

• Safina discusses his surprise at discovering profound relational capacity in a baby owl he raised, even after years of working with animals.

  • "She would sometimes come over and wanna be stroked and lean into it just like our dogs do... I was saying, of all people, why am I surprised?" (04:00)

• He emphasizes that all animals, not just pets, experience emotions comparable to humans due to shared ancestry, neurochemistry, and social bonds.

  • "Do other animals have human emotions? Yes, they do. Do humans have animal emotions? Yes, they're largely the same." – Oprah reading from Safina's book (09:09)

• Humans are taught (especially in Western culture) to see themselves as separate or superior to animals, which leads to disconnection from the miracle of life and other living beings. Other cultures recognize all life as family.

  • "The whole rest of the world is here to serve us... we've written the miracle out of our script." – Safina (06:41)

2. How Do We Know Dogs Truly Love Us?

Exploring the Science of Canine Affection

• Safina and Oprah discuss how dogs often seek the company of their humans even when food is not involved.
  • "Our dogs are never given... a treat or fed or anything... upstairs... but at night they come upstairs. Why? Because they want to be near us. When I'm in my riding cottage, our dogs... come up the little path... Why? Because they want to be near me. I want to be near them too, because I love them." – Safina (12:51)
• Dogs model admirable qualities: loyalty, forgiveness, presence, and honesty.
  • "Our dogs are... loyal, forgiving... always want to get past it... If we could just be straight shooters, loyal, always want to make up, defend what we love... we would be a little better for it." – Safina (13:43)
• Grieving pets and the lesson of living in the present from dogs.
  • "What I've learned about being in the present moment is that dogs are always just in the present moment." – Oprah (15:06)

3. Ancient Roots and Evolutionary Connections

• Safina’s perspective advanced after observing ancient, instinctual behaviors (like the "play bow") in raccoons and wolves, suggesting dogs retain deep evolutionary social behaviors.
  • "Dogs are really wolves in arrested development. They never quite become full adults to... leave. They are wolves in arrested development." – Safina (21:39–22:16)
• The connection between how wild animals leave their familial groups as adults, while dogs remain perpetually dependent and loyal.

4. Science Speaks: Do Brain Scans Show That Dogs Love Us?

Dr. Gregory Berns’ Groundbreaking MRI Research

• Trained dogs to lay still for MRI and measured their brain’s response to food, praise, and their owner's presence.
  • "For the majority of dogs, about three quarters... it was equal response to both of those things. The dogs valued that praise and just being around their person as much as food. And for about a quarter... they actually valued it more." – Dr. Berns (26:36)
• Experiments reveal some dogs experience jealousy, showing arousal in the amygdala when their owner gave a treat to another dog-like statue.
  • "For some of the dogs, it actually evoked a response in an area of the brain called the amygdala... they were clearly bothered by it." – Dr. Berns (29:48)

5. Dogs' Heroic and Intuitive Actions

• Listener Gabby recounts how her newly adopted rescue Rusty alerted her to a fire, saving her entire family.
  • "I still get chills kind of thinking about it, but my house was filled with black smoke... if Rusty hadn't been there... I'm not sure where we would be..." – Gabby (34:43–38:07)
• Amanda and Gabriel share how their dog Axel woke them during Gabriel’s stroke, enabling quick life-saving medical attention.
  • "Axel, our dog, woke me up... he stopped in front of my son's door. Little did we know, my son was already actively having a stroke... had it been five hours before we got him to the hospital, he could have been paralyzed forever or worse." – Amanda (39:10–40:56)
• Dr. Safina explains the science behind such behaviors, highlighting dogs’ ability to sense and interpret situations due to strong sense of smell, emotional acuteness, and understanding of object permanence.
  • "These dogs know who they are. They know who we are. They know where they are. They understand their lives... and goes to get help." – Safina (43:10–43:24)
• Community organizer Christina speaks about the comfort and peace her dog brought during life's challenges, and the inclusivity she found in starting "Black Women Love Dogs."
  • "She just came to me and she literally just rested her paw on my shoulder... she just knew in that moment what I needed was her comfort and her support." – Christina (45:45)

6. The Implications: Respect, Responsibility, and Connection

• Safina issues a gentle call to consider what's best for the dog (breed, energy) before adoption.
  • "What is this breed's energy level? ...[Australian shepherds] have no business being up in an apartment." – Oprah (52:32)
• Human actions have transformed the balance of life on earth: 80% of birds are now chickens, 96% of mammals are humans, cows, or pigs.
  • "Since I was in high school, the average population of wild animals has declined 70%, 7 0%... why aren’t we taking care of the miracle of the world that made us and maintains us?" – Safina (51:09)
• The essential nature of "beyond words" connection with animals: recognition, understanding, and emotional bonds without language.
  • "There is so much... understanding, bonding, emotion, recognition of who we are... that does not have words to it." – Safina (54:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Life is a miracle. The definition of miracle is it's something that breaks the laws of physics... Living things maintain themselves in a state far from equilibrium. And that's not supposed to happen, but that's what life is." – Safina (08:00)
• "If we're so powerful, why aren't we taking care of the miracle of the world that made us and maintains us?" – Safina (02:40 & 51:09)
• "Our dogs... show us how to be better than we are." – Oprah paraphrasing Safina (13:38)
• "Dogs understand when things are normal and when things are out of the ordinary, and they understand distress. They show that all the time." – Safina (41:55)
• "There is so much that is beyond words. There is so much understanding, bonding, emotion... that does not have words to it." – Safina (54:20)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• 00:00–03:30 – Oprah introduces Carl Safina, discusses her dogs, love, and animal consciousness
• 03:33–06:57 – Cultural and religious perspectives on humanity’s relationship to animals; Western vs. Indigenous/Asian philosophies
• 07:00–08:54 – What Alfie the owl taught Safina about animal relationality; discussion about the miracle of life
• 09:09–11:07 – Shared emotions between humans and animals, the science behind animal feeling
• 12:21–14:33 – Dogs’ motivation: love vs. treats; how dogs inspire us to be better
• 17:38–22:16 – Evolutionary backstory: wolves, dogs, arrested development, and ancient behaviors
• 23:32–26:36 – MRI studies with Dr. Gregory Berns: dogs respond to praise and company as much (or more) than food
• 28:05–29:48 – Research on jealousy and complex emotions in dogs
• 34:43–38:07 – Gabby’s rescue dog Rusty saves her family from a fire
• 39:10–44:02 – Amanda and Gabriel: Axel the dog alerts to son’s stroke, object permanence and dog cognition
• 45:41–46:34 – Christina discusses community, Black Women Love Dogs, and the emotional support from her dog
• 48:22–51:09 – Safina’s childhood, realization of similarities between humans and animals, modern animal population statistics
• 52:25–53:55 – Matching dog breed and environment; responsibilities of dog ownership
• 54:13–55:09 – What is “beyond words” in the human-animal connection?

Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is warm, introspective, and deeply empathetic. Oprah’s personal stories, Safina’s scientific humility and reverence for animals, and listeners’ powerful testimonies all converge to create an episode that is simultaneously informative, moving, and hope-inspiring. The commitment to recognizing animals as sentient beings and cherished family members frames the episode’s moral center.

Final Reflections

• Dogs are not just loyal companions, but mirrors reflecting what is best in us: loyalty, forgiveness, clear intent, sensitivity, and presence.
• Scientific evidence shows dogs value human company and love, not just food.
• The human-animal bond, routed in biology and deep time, is also shaped by culture, respect, and mutual care.
• The show closes with a reminder that we are all family, not just with our dogs, but with the whole living world — a call for reverence and stewardship.

Recommended Further Reading:

• Beyond Words: What Animals Think and Feel – Carl Safina
• What Owls Know and What Humans Believe – Carl Safina
• How Dogs Love Us – Gregory Berns
• Cow Puppy – Gregory Berns

[For more information: safinacenter.org]

This summary captures the heart and science of a riveting episode sure to resonate with animal lovers and thinkers alike.