Dog Behavior Explained: Scientist Alexandra Horowitz Reveals Your Dog's Mind to Oprah

Summary

The Oprah Podcast: Dog Behavior Explained

Scientist Alexandra Horowitz Reveals Your Dog's Mind to Oprah

Date: April 28, 2026
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Dr. Alexandra Horowitz, cognitive scientist, dog expert, and bestselling author (Inside of a Dog)

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Episode Overview

In this deeply engaging episode, Oprah Winfrey sits down with Dr. Alexandra Horowitz, renowned animal cognition scientist and bestselling author, to unlock the mysteries inside our dogs' minds. Together, they explore how dogs perceive their world—especially through their extraordinary sense of smell—the bonds they form with humans, and how understanding canine cognition can make us better companions. The episode is peppered with personal stories, heartfelt listener questions, and scientific insights, all delivered in Oprah’s warm, curious, and compassionate tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dogs’ Extraordinary Sense of Smell

• Dogs can detect a teaspoon of sugar in two Olympic-sized swimming pools (a million gallons of water). Their sense of smell is so sensitive, they can pick up threats like explosives, drugs, or even cancer and COVID-19.
  • Quote:
    • Oprah: "A dog's sense of smell is so powerful that they can detect... a teaspoon of sugar dissolved in a million gallons of water." (00:00)
    • Dr. Horowitz: "There are dogs who can detect a picogram of explosive which is a trillionth of a gram." (00:24)
• Dogs can also detect human emotions through scent changes caused by hormones and perspiration.
  • Dr. Horowitz: "These bodily changes have an odor...it's just we're not sticking our nose up to it and detecting it." (08:44)

2. The Human-Dog Bond: Family, Not Property

• Oprah reflects on having 21 dogs and shares:
  • “I have to say one of the great, great joys of my life has been that I've been able to share my life with dogs…” (00:57)
• Dr. Horowitz challenges the notion of dogs as property, advocating for terms like "my dog's person" or "guardian."
  • Dr. Horowitz: “Property ownership, that's legal. It doesn't represent how we feel about each other.” (06:04)

3. Understanding Dog Intelligence

• Dogs have memory, learn like humans, solve problems, and can even understand hundreds of words if taught.
  • Oprah: “Is it true that they have human-like intelligence? That's what dog lovers already want to believe.” (05:18)
  • Dr. Horowitz: “Certainly in many respects they do...the most interesting thing about their intelligence is the way it also differs from ours.” (05:24)
• Dogs comprehend human language, tone, and context, often responding to "dog-directed speech" similar to baby talk.
  • Dr. Horowitz: “We use something called dog-directed speech with dogs...and it lets the dog know...some of it is directed to them.” (11:25)

4. Dogs’ Living Perspective: The “Smelling Universe”

• Dogs’ experience of the world is through their nose, not just vision or hearing.
  • Dr. Horowitz: “It's a smelly universe. They have different understanding of the world.” (04:48)
• Walking for dogs is about sniffing, discovering information about the environment and others.
  • Dr. Horowitz: “The walk is for them...as soon as you walk outside...there's evidence who's been there in the past. That's what the dogs want to notice.” (17:55)

5. Memory, Time, and Attachment

• Dogs remember people, places, events (both positive and negative), and even specific routes (like to the vet).
  • Dr. Horowitz: "Does the dog recognize someone when they return home after being absent for a month? Absolutely...they'll recognize their smell." (15:04)
• Dogs measure time through changes in routine, smell, and other environmental cues—not the human concept of minutes/hours.
  • Dr. Horowitz: “Smells change over time, and our spaces smell like us...the passage of odor during the day.” (27:34)
• Separation stress is a sign of attachment; greetings are more intense the longer you’re away.
  • Dr. Horowitz: “The longer the people were gone, the more tail wagging, licking...a greeting they got.” (26:03)

6. The Science of the Canine-Human Bond

• Dogs are deeply attached to their people; the bond is physiological (heart rhythms, oxytocin levels).
  • Dr. Horowitz: "People and dogs, when they are bonded like this, they'll sit together and their heart rhythms synchronize...by just looking at each other in the eyes, their oxytocin levels rise." (20:57)
• The concept of a “soul dog” is acknowledged as real and meaningful.

7. Dogs’ Social Lives, Grief, and Aging

• Listener stories highlight intense emotional connections and the nuances of end-of-life decisions.
  • Dr. Horowitz: “Your dog, Lennox, probably knew that he was aging...they're experiencing their own aging process...but they're such great observers of the moment...having you there and being with him, that's what he would have noticed.” (35:59)
• Dogs know when they're nearing the end, but are happiest with loved ones present.

8. Training, Dominance Theories, and Letting Dogs Be Dogs

• Horowitz rejects outdated “dominance” training models:
  • “They're not maintaining their leadership by force...Dogs are our family. They view us as parents essentially in that pack.” (30:15)
• Let dogs express their nature: Permit sniffing on walks, avoid unnecessary costumes or perfumes, and recognize their unique needs.
  • Dr. Horowitz: “I want people to let dogs be dogs, realize that they're not little furry humans...the reason we love them is because they're different than us.” (52:17)

9. Senior Dogs, Adoption, and Practical Care

• Steve’s Instagram, "Wolfgang2242," has inspired senior dog adoptions, showing their deep gratitude and easy companionship.
  • Steve: “What I found out after adopting senior dogs is it's just the best situation. They have settled into the best version of themselves and you get to enjoy that.” (41:00)
• Senior dogs adjust to new names quickly, associating it more with the person than the word itself.
  • Dr. Horowitz: “Who is saying their name and how they're saying it is what their name is.” (45:18)
• Senior dogs need understanding, sometimes special diets, and above all, loving homes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On dog empathy:
  • Oprah: “That's how they know you're sad. They're not just looking at your face.” (09:35)
• On the “soul dog”:
  • Oprah: “My soul dog was Luke...I think when I transition, Luke will be there to greet me on the other side. That's what I think.” (20:17)
• On letting dogs be dogs:
  • Dr. Horowitz: “If we were really interested in what they want, you know, I think we'd look at their behavior instead of just assuming that they're little furry humans.” (53:43)
• On adopting older dogs:
  • Steve: “I think as we get older, we become hopefully the best versions of ourselves. And I think that's what happens with dogs.” (43:30)
• On aging and quality of life:
  • Oprah: “It's the quality of life that matters.” (38:24)
• On their olfactory world:
  • Dr. Horowitz: “They want to smell like where they've been and who they are...They'd rather not be perfumed.” (54:15)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Content/Question | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Introduction; power of dog’s sense of smell | | 03:10 | Dr. Horowitz’s early career and approach to studying dogs | | 05:18 | Are dogs “intelligent” like humans? | | 06:04 | How should we describe our relationship with dogs? | | 08:28 | Can dogs smell emotions, illnesses, PTSD? | | 10:14 | Do dogs understand words, language, and tone? | | 13:39 | How dogs track our movements | | 14:42 | Do dogs remember the past and think about the future? | | 15:55 | How dogs know the route to the vet | | 16:56 | Dogs’ experience of the world close to the ground | | 17:27 | Why dogs sniff so much on walks | | 18:27 | The joy of car rides—“olfactory fireworks” | | 19:06 | Listener question: Is there such a thing as a “soul dog”? | | 23:44 | Listener on how her dog transformed her relationship | | 25:45 | Do dogs know how long we’re gone? (concept of time) | | 34:03 | Should you have more than one dog? | | 35:01 | Listener question about end-of-life decision and dog’s awareness| | 42:05 | Steve’s story: senior dog adoption on Instagram | | 45:00 | Should you change a senior dog’s name upon adoption? | | 46:26 | Integrating new dogs into a group | | 52:17 | What Dr. Horowitz most wishes people knew about dogs | | 53:04 | Dogs and raincoats, dressing up dogs | | 54:15 | Why dogs roll after a bath and prefer “natural” smells |

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Listener Q&A Highlights

• Rachel: On loving her "soul dog" Beau and whether dogs feel a “soul” connection (20:01)
• Marissa: Do dogs understand how long their humans are gone? (23:44)
• Jaime: Do dogs understand it’s their time at the end of life? (35:01)
• Steve: Rescuing senior dogs, renaming them, and integrating new dogs into packs (42:05)

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Actionable Takeaways

• Allow sniff walks: Let dogs stop and sniff; it’s key to their happiness and wellbeing.
• Attachment is real and mutual: Dogs feel deeply, remember our routines, and share family bonds.
• Let dogs be dogs: Avoid unnecessary humanizing—costumes, scents, and dominance struggles.
• Adopt senior dogs: They're grateful, adjust well, and bring special rewards.
• Respect canine perception: Understand their sensory, emotional, and social world to be a better companion.

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Closing Reflection

Oprah and Dr. Horowitz’s heartfelt conversation uncovers the profound and unique way dogs experience the world—through scent, presence, attachment, and memory. Their dialogue bridges the gap between science and empathy, inviting us to see our canine companions not as property or little humans, but as vibrant individuals deserving understanding and respect.

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For dog lovers, this episode is an emotional, enlightening journey that will change the way you walk, talk, and connect with your dog forever.

Transcript

[Oprah Winfrey]

This episode of the Oprah Podcast is presented by our fantastic partners at the Farmer's Dog. So you say that a dog's sense of smell is so powerful that they can detect, listen to you all. A teaspoon of sugar dissolved in a million gallons of water. That would be two Olympic sized swimming pools.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

There are dogs who can detect a picogram of explosive which is a trillionth of a gram. So they can be trained to detect drugs or Covid or the smell of cancerous cells. But even the dog we live with, they can smell all those things.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's just when they're, they smell emotions, they smell emotions. So everything that's happening in our body, emotionally and physically, biologically, health wise, creates its own scent.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

They can sense the change.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hi, everybody. A warm, warm welcome to you. Thanks for hanging out with me here on the Oprah Podcast. I have to say one of the great, great joys of my life has been that I've been able to share my life with dogs since I was an adult. I think that they make life so much sweeter and richer in all the ways every single one of my dogs has been a teacher for me. I've had 21 dogs. Sadie is my 21st dog and I've before Sadie, I had 11 dogs at one time. And that was the happiest I ever was in my life was when I had was living in Chicago and had a farm in Indiana. And we drive to the farm in Indiana on Fridays and I had two dogs, Sophie and Solomon, who lived with me in Chicago. And the other nine dogs would be waiting at the farm. Just the best, best, best days of my life, walking through the woods with my dogs. And I've often wondered what is really happening inside their minds. And I know those of you who are dog lovers as I am have wondered the same thing about your dogs. How do dogs experience the world? Well, my guest today has spent her career trying to answer that question. And she's not just a dog lover like all of us. She's actually a dog lover and a scientist who studies their cognition and their behavior. And she's the author of the number one New York Times bestseller, Inside of a Dog and director of the Dog Cognition Lab at Barnard College. Dr. Alexandra Horowitz. Welcome to the podcast.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks for coming to this front porch.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

It is my pleasure.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I've been on the porch here with many a dog. I've roamed these fields with many a dog.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I feel their presence.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And now I know why they love being out here. So much, because I learned so much about what smells mean to the dog. So when we let the dogs out here, it is like, wow, a whole

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

different universe than a different universe.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, yes. So when you started writing about dogs, there really wasn't. I don't know if there was there a lot of scientific research. How did you understand what's going on inside a dog? Inside of a dog?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, every dog on Earth. You should have this book so you know what your dog is really thinking. Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Well, I mean, I asked the dogs, really. I became a scientist of dog cognition, which is really just looking at their behavior in a scientific way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And how do you do this? You have bunches of dogs in a

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

space, or sometimes I have dogs. I'll bring dogs into a laboratory space, which is just a boring room with nothing in it, and just the one thing I want to show them. Or I'm observing dogs in the wild, as it were, which is just interacting with each other or interacting with people and coding their behavior for certain patterns to see what do they need to know in order to be able to do that? Do they anticipate someone else's behavior? And so when I started this, yeah, there weren't a lot of people studying dogs at all. I lived with a dog, but it never occurred to me to study dogs. But once I started turning my gaze toward them, I never looked back.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Once you started studying and you turned your gaze towards your own dog, who has since passed that first dog, you saw and experienced them differently, correct?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Completely. Completely. And when I started studying them, it's very different because living with dogs, you sort of feel like you know what their experience is like. I mean, it's a little bit analogous to our experience. We figure.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. But then I realized from reading inside of a dog that I have been projecting what I think onto what I think they're thinking.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah. Very natural thing to do. Right. We all anthropomorphize. That's how we make sense for the world, is we sort of imagine that others are thinking of the world the way we are. And so, too, with those furry little faces looking at us. And as it turns out, when you start to understand it from their point of view, right. It's a completely different world. It's a smelly universe. They have different understanding of the world. What's amazing is that they're also able to understand the human world and live so smoothly with us.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Nonetheless, is it true that they have human, like, intelligence? That's what dog lovers already want to believe.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I mean, certainly in many respects they do. Right. Their brains work in the same way that ours do. They have memories, they learn like we do. They solve problems like we do. They can even, even though it's not their first language, understand some of our language, which is pretty impressive, I think. But I think the most interesting thing about their intelligence is the way it also differs from ours. And that has to do with their perceptual experience.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think it's interesting how you talk in the book Inside of a Dog. You talk about how legally we are all dog owners, but because they are property. But how would you describe your relationship with your dog?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I say I'm my dog's person. Yes, Right. They're my dog in a way, but I'm their person. Right. We are family. Sometimes people use the word guardian. I think that also works. Property ownership, that's legal. It doesn't represent how we feel about each other.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think, you know, when I see a dog tied up in the backyard somewhere, I always feel like, oh, that dog owner thinks he is the owner in the way that he controls completely, that dog. That's right. Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Is there anything worse than seeing a dog being tied up in the backyard

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

captive to that moment in time? Right. Not in a relationship with someone at every moment, which is what they want and should be.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you say that a dog's sense of smell. This is what I learned from reading Inside of a Dog, y', all, that the nose is everything to the dog. And it made me understand how over the years, having had 21 dogs, I've had every kind of illnesses. I had five golden retrievers who all had a strain of cancer. I have had dogs who lost their sight and dogs who lost their, you know, ability to hear. You know, Sadie can no longer hear. But as long as that nose is working, the sense of smell is so powerful. You say that they can detect. Listen to you all, a teaspoon of sugar dissolved in a million gallons of water. That would be two Olympic sized swimming pools. So how is that possible? They can detect the smell of a teaspoon of sugar in a million gallons of water. That's how they're.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I might notice if some sugar is in my coffee.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. But I would notice if there is a teaspoon of sugar in this glass.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

That's right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But in a million gallons of water,

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

their whole anatomy is set up to be such strong smellers. Everything about how they sniff their nose, their brain, is set up to be smellers. So, yeah, there are dogs who can Detect a picogram of explosive which is a trillionth of a gram, you know, unimaginably small amount.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. That's why they're so great for drug detection.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Absolutely right. But they could be. And these are dogs who are trained.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

So they can be trained to detect drugs or Covid or the smell of cancerous cells.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

But even the dog we live with, even untrained. Right. They can smell all those things. It's just when they're.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They smell emotions. They smell emotions. But you say it goes even further than that in smelling emotions. As you just said, they can detect cancer, they can detect Covid and even ptsd. How is that? How are they smelling cancer? How are they smelling Covid?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

These bodily changes have an odor. Really? Almost everything has an odor. It's just we're not sticking our nose up to it and detecting it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They also don't have the ability to detect it.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Our noses are pretty good, but nothing like theirs. And they also behaved like.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because I couldn't smell if someone had cancer.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

No. But there is a woman who smelled Parkinson disease and her husband and doctors did used to smell people's breath, their bodies for certain kinds of illnesses. And dogs are just on that all the time.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So everything that's happening in our body, emotionally and physically, biologically, health wise, creates its own scent, is what you're saying.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

There are changes in cells and then there are things like perspiration or hormones in our sweat.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the dog smells that and senses that.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

They can sense the change.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's how they know you're sad. They're not just looking at your face.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

That's right. I mean, they do look at our face as well. Right. Which is neat. They can read.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love the fact that it's the one animal that actually gives you eye contact.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Right, Right. You can look at a dog and they're looking back at you and you feel that understanding. Right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

And that intimacy.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And for other animals, that is like aggressive behavior.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I wouldn't do it with a wolf.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I wouldn't do it with a wolf.

[Jaime]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah. That's a threat to a wolf.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

And I mean, for us, it's part of what it's like to have a conversation with somebody. It's part of what it's like to have an intimate relationship with somebody. And they kind of bootstrapped on that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. So do they understand language? I've always heard that they can understand words as well as a toddler. Is that true?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah, in some ways.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do they have a vocabulary?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I Mean they're not speaking, they're not producing words, but their perception is actually surprisingly good. If we talk to them clearly, most dogs will learn dozens of words. And there are some amazing dogs who have learned hundreds of words.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so do they understand let's go for a walk because they understand the word walk, or do they understand let's go for a walk? Because usually when you say let's go for a walk, you get the leash and you're headed out the door.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

They see both those things, but also the prosody of the sentence or the sing songiness of the sentence. When I say let's go for a walk, Finnegan, that's a certain sound that they associate with the thing that's gonna happen.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So are they like toddlers in that they. Cause I notice babies, and we all notice this, that babies react to your sing songy voice. That's why people talk in their baby talk voice. And they react to the vibration, they act to the energy of your words as well as the words.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

We use something called dog directed speech with dogs, typically women more than men, but it's like kind of baby talk. And it lets the dog know that of all this bubbling speech around them, some of it is directed to them and that's the part they should pay attention to.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And they get that.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

And they get that, right? That's what they're. They're little anthropologists watching us all the time, looking for cues from us. So if we use language carefully with them, they can pick up on it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Time for a break. Do you ever wonder how your dog seems to know they're going to the vet? Why do they love sticking their heads out the car window? And what is a soul dog? I have so many questions for Dr. Alexander Horowitz and our listeners do too. So stay with us, dog lovers. Hello, listeners. I always say that one of the great joys of my life has been my dogs. So I am deeply committed to their well being, just like our friends at the Farmer's Dog. From my golden retrievers to my cocker Spaniels, I've had 21 dogs over the years. Their smiles, they do smile, you know, their snuggles, their spirits remind me to slow down, to be present and to appreciate the small comforts in life. Listen to this. The farmer's dog makes human grade food for our dogs with real ingredients and minimal processing. So I've been feeding the farmer's dog to my cocker spaniel, Sadie for a while now. Sadie's 17 and a half because it supports healthy Aging. And I think it's giving us more good days together because every time I feed her the farmer's dog, I know I'm giving her safe, quality food. To all my fellow dog lovers, you know, our beloved companions give us so much. And that is why the farmer's dog helps us do our best for them. Welcome back to the Oprah podcast. I have had 21 dogs in my life, so I wanted to talk with cognitive scientist and best selling author of Inside of a dog, Dr. Alexandra Horowitz. We're learning about what's really going on inside the mind of your dog and how they experience the world. I find this so fascinating. Let's get back to it. I read an inside inside of a dog that they track our movements. How are they doing that?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

They're really attuned to us all the time. I mean, think of what's happening. Ordinarily. If you're sitting in a room with your dog, nothing is happening for them. So they notice all the associations between when you get up and you're going to the refrigerator versus when you get up and you're going to get the leash and go for a walk. We're moving differently. Right. As anyone who sat in the corner of your room and studied you could start to tell that you move differently

[Oprah Winfrey]

when you're going to the refrigerator or you're going to get something out of the closet than you do when you're gonna get ready to go for a walk. Right.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Our intentions are in our movement. Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the dog senses that.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yes, they're great observers. I wish we'd be better observers of them, but they're great observers. Of course.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And aren't they great observers because they're so fully present?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah. Yes, they. I mean, sometimes people like to say, well, dogs just live in the moment. I mean, I do think they have a real feeling of their past. They have memories and they think about the future. But they're great observers of the moment.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, okay. You just said you do think they have. So do they have memories of their past? Do they think about the future?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah, yeah, they absolutely do. It's very tricky in animal cognition research to try to ask an animal who's not answering your questions in language, you know, what do you remember? But all of their behavior indicates that they remember episodes. They remember people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Tell me, tell me how.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Well, I mean, does the dog recognize someone when they return home after being absent for a month? Absolutely. They might not recognize them by sight right away, but they'll recognize their smell.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Their smell?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah. So they're thinking about and know about things that happened in the past.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right. And if you have ever hit a dog, the dog will. If you. Or like I've bought many dogs from the shelter, you raise your hand, the dog cowers because the dog remembers being hit.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

That's how they learn anything, is learn associations and remember it. So, yeah, they'll remember who hit them, that it happened, what preceded it, and how they felt afterward.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They remember you took me to the beach and we had a good time, me going in the water.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

That's right. Or I don't want to go to the vet. And this is the route to the vet.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And one of the reasons they don't want to go to the vet is because they remember the route to the vet because of the way it smells.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah, absolutely. Exactly right. They remember the way it smells. And the vet smells a certain way, too. Right. The veterinary office smells like stressed dogs who've been there before.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right. And they're smelling all the stress of all the dogs who've been there.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Unbelievable. And is that why when we get off the freeway, just even when we're exiting the free freeway, I noticed, and Sadie's in the backseat. She stands up and she is. She's smelling things, or does she. Does she recognize this is our road?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I think all the cues, right. If you turn off the main road, you're slowing down, it's slower. The road might be different under the tires. Suddenly the air comes in, the windows slightly different. And the smell of every place is distinct. And dogs are good observers of that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You say that simply being closer to the ground, the fact that the dogs are closer to the ground changes how dogs experience sound, how they experience smell, and even their personal space. I just never thought of it that way before.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I think one of the great ways to start thinking about what it's like to be a dog is to just get down on their level, Right. Where they're among human knees and ankles and clanking shoes. And sound travels differently down there. Right. Bounces more. The rumbling of a fan you put on the floor will be felt. And then, of course, there are all sorts of smells on the ground. Most smells are in the air, and they land on the ground over time. And so it's full of information about the dinner.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So when the dogs are walking, you see these people pulling their dogs along when their dogs are trying to, you know, sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff. You're doing the antithesis of what that dog really is going for. The walk for. After reading Inside a dog. I thought, oh, the dogs aren't walking to get exercise. Everybody's trying to get the dogs out to exercise. The dogs are walking for the smell sensation. That's a smelling universe for them.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Exactly right. The walk is for them. Right. And we think, oh, we have to make good time. We have to exercise you. You have to go relieve yourself. But as soon as you walk outside and the world has changed, the scent has changed a little bit. There's evidence who's been there in the past. That's what the dogs want to notice. If there's another dog, they wanna sniff that dog, see who they are, where they've been, if they're healthy. So I love to take my dogs on smell walks where one of the walks just is me letting them sniff whatever they wanna sniff for as long as they want.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Why do dogs love this? We've all seen this, and my dog does, too. When Sadie puts her head out the window, she looks like Farrah Fawcett. I have to say, why do dogs love sticking their head out the car window? Because when humans do it, we can't breathe. They love it.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I think it's like olfactory fireworks, right? Every smell at once, all at once. Which is just like a delicious experience.

[Oprah Winfrey]

All those smells at once. That's why they're all grinning when their heads are out the window. It's like, oh, come on, baby. Bring it to me, baby. Yeah. We have a few dog lovers joining us with questions for Dr. Horowitz. Rachel. Hi.

[Steve]

Hi.

[Rachel]

Thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed this conversation thoroughly. So I have never been a dog person. I am married to a man who rolls around on the floor with every dog that he sees. And about two years ago, our daughter came to us and begged us to rescue the sweetest, most scared, but very sick dog. I reluctantly agreed to adopt him. And I spent the next year and a half going to every vet, every specialist hospitalized him to try to help and make him feel better. And his name is Beau. So Beau has been on his health journey now. He's doing much better for the past six months. But what I've come to realize is that I love him like he is part of my soul. Like he is my soul dog.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

The same way that I feel about my husband. Like, my husband is my soulmate. So my question is, is, does Boo think that I'm his soulmate or soul person also? And, Oprah, I know that you've had 21 dogs. Have you ever had this feeling?

[Oprah Winfrey]

This feeling that your soul knows oh, my God. Yes, Rachel, I've had this feeling. But so, yes, I don't know if. And my soul dog also knew that he was my soul dog. I could start crying right now. I really could. My soul dog was Luke. And I still think of him. And I think when I transition, Luke will be there to greet me on the other side. That's what I think. So, yeah, that's what I feel. And I knew he knew. I knew he knew he knew. Yeah. So, Dr. Horowitz, what do you want to say about that?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah, I mean, I've also had, I think, more than one soul dog, actually, for different times in my life and for different me's in a way, different ways that I was being in the world. And there's a real basis to this, right? Just. It's analogous to a child parent relationship in that dogs feel attachment, just like children feel attachment to their caregivers. And they attach to a person or persons. And that connection is the basis of this dog human bond. And it's a real physical connection. You know, people and dogs, when they are bonded like this, they'll sit together and their heart rhythms synchronize with each other. Right. By just looking at each other in the eyes, their oxytocin levels rise. So this is a real experience that you're having. It's not just something that you're concocting. Right. And it's the basis of why dogs are so great with people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And how is Beau now? You said he's going through health issues.

[Rachel]

So for the past six months, he's healthy. People come up to me all the time to tell me they can't believe he's the same dog. So knocking on every veterinarian store in our town worked.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Really? Yeah.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, we're going through it with Sadie. I mean, I think we're in the last days of Sadie. And I would have to say I was on tour in Australia in December and my dog caregiver was like, we don't think, you know, she's gonna make it. So I rushed home, I thought I was gonna have to put her down. And then when I got here, she was. She perked up, you know, But I would have to say that nearing the end and knowing it's the end, cause. Cause Sadie is 17, so we know we don't have a whole long time. There's something really quite precious about these days too. Cause, you know, you're in the final days, so it's a thing.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Enjoy. Enjoy all those years of Beau that you have Ahead of you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I want to know how has Beau enhanced your life? How has he changed you?

[Rachel]

I'm a different person. I am not the same person that you would have met two years ago.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How? How so? How so?

[Rachel]

I joined my husband rolling around on the floor with all the other dogs.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yay.

[Rachel]

I actually think it's made my marriage even stronger because it was a love that he had that I didn't understand. And now I understand how you can love from the bottom of your heart. Like really love an animal more than yourself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, God bless you for that. I think that's a wonderful thing to have that as another soulmate in the world. Thank you, Rachel. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Marissa. Dog mom to 10 year old Harvey is joining us from Texas. Hi, Marissa.

[Marissa]

Well, I'm so glad to be here. So, yes, I am the lucky mom to Harvey. He will be 10 later this year. Harvey and I actually met 10 years ago, but I'm quite positive we were family in a past life. I just know it. We met in San Diego back when I lived in California. I was volunteering for a foster organization. I was his foster mother. And as the story goes, of course I meet him and I know instantly that I've known him.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're his person. You're his person.

[Marissa]

Oh, yeah, he is my person. So, yes, I was a foster win, as I like to call it. So Harvey and I have now spent the last nine years traveling the United States together. We've lived in California, we lived for a little bit in Minneapolis, we were in Chicago for four years, and now we're down here in Dallas, Texas. So I swear he has more airline miles than most people do. But it's been really fun to just travel this country with him and, and kind of explore with him. But my question for you. So we've been together a long time, and whenever I get ready to leave or head out the door, Harvey seems to do the same thing. So whether I'm going out to the mailbox for a minute, or maybe I'm going for some errands that I'm running for the day, Harvey will get anxious. So my question for you is more on the concept of time. So do dogs understand the concept of time? Does he understand that when I'm gone for five minutes or the full day, does he know how long I've been gone? Because it seems like either way, it has the same emotional impact on him. When he sees me getting ready to leave out the door, he seems to get that same emotional reaction. So I'm curious just what he's thinking about as I'm getting ready to leave out the door.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Great observation. You know, the flip side of that attachment we were talking about is that in separation, dogs are stressed. They're anxious. Right. And that's part of the bond, actually. It's the kind of negative side of the bond, which is that when you're attached to someone, you don't want to see them go. And I just.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And when you're gone, they're stressed, and

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

when you're gone, there's some stress involved. Probably why Sadie perked up when you returned. Right. There's the relief of the. That. And it is a really cool question to say, well, does that mean they don't have a sense of how long you're gone? And there actually was research that looked at this question. What they did was they looked at the greeting behavior that you get when you come back in the door. Right. That great enthusiastic reply. And they had people leave their dogs for a few minutes or a half an hour or several hours, and they looked at the intensity of the greeting, and they found that the longer the people were gone, the more tail wagging, licking, shaking. Intense. A greeting they got. So dogs, in their behavior look like they do appreciate the distance, the time you've been gone from them. And in that way, they're kind of marking time. Yeah. It's definitely different. Even though they're, Whatever. Excited every time you come back in the door.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. I noticed this with Sadie that. Especially when she was really. Well, that if you're gone for a few minutes, I remember coming saying, look, I've only been gone for a few minutes and you're this excited. But if you're gone for a long time, she would, like, go around in circles and bark and yelp and do all the things, like pull out all the stuff. Pull out all the stuff.

[Marissa]

The toys. Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Run and get a toy and all that.

[Marissa]

He wants to run and go grab something and bring it back to me and show me right when I get back.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I also think they mark time through smell. Right. Smells change over time, and our spaces smell like us. Right. The longer you're gone, everybody has a smell. It's a perfectly normal thing, and our dogs know it. They'll recognize us by our smell alone. The longer you're gone, the less your space smells of you being there. So time is kind of marked in the passage of odor during the day.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Everything is. When you read this book, Marissa, everything is through the nose. Everything. Everything is about the smell.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I Mean, because it's how they see the world. Right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

They see the world through their nose.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah. And that's how their brain works. Olfactory cognition. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you, Marissa.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Thank you, Harvey.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You and Harvey, 10 years together. That's beautiful, listeners. Is your dog sitting in the window waiting for you to get home before you even pull in the driveway? How do they know to do that for older dogs, do they know their time is coming to an end? More dog questions for Dr. Alexandra Horowitz after a quick break. Hello, listeners. I always say that one of the great joys of my life has been my dogs. So I am deeply committed to their well being. Just like our friends at the Farmer's Dog. From my golden retrievers to my cocker Spaniels, I've had 21 dogs over the years. Their smiles, they do smile, you know, their snuggles, their spirits remind me to slow down, to be present and to appreciate the small comforts in life. Listen to this. The farmer's dog makes human grade food for our dogs with real ingredients and minimal processing. So I've been feeding the farmer's dog to my cocker spaniel, Sadie for a while now. Sadie's 17 and a half because it supports healthy aging. And I think it's giving us more good days together because every time I feed her the farmer's dog, I know I giving her safe, quality food. To all my fellow dog lovers, you know, our beloved companions give us so much, and that is why the farmer's dog helps us do our best for them. Thank you for joining me here on the Oprah podcast for my conversation with dog expert and bestselling author Alexandra Horowitz. We're having so many I never thought of it that way dog moments. So go ahead and share this episode with the fellow dog lovers in your life. And while you're at it, hit subscribe to the Oprah podcast. Won't cost you a thing. So you believe that trying to show your dog that you're the boss can be harmful. And we know that there are lots of trainers who do that. You know, like, I'm the one in charge.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Why do you, why do you not condone that?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Well, again, I look at the science. You know, people are looking at wolf behavior to try to explain how you should be with your dog. And there's very old science that said, oh, when you look at wolves in a captive environment, they establish a dominance hierarchy and there are leaders or alphas who have access to all the resource. But then when people could actually study how wolves Behave naturally in the wild, it turned out they live in family packs. And there are leaders of the group. It's the parents who live with their offspring and their offspring's offspring. And so they're not maintaining their leadership by force by being bossy. They're not bullying. Right. They just know more, and so they tend to be in charge. And we are also in that kind of situation. Dogs are our family. They view us as parents essentially in that pack. And we control all aspects of their life already. Right. We don't need to worry that they're going to try to threaten our leadership and boss them or bully them around for it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I notice that sometimes your dog knows that you're coming even before the car pulls up or if the car is in the driveway. Or we've seen these stories on social media of the dog waiting in the window for the kids to come home, or the dog knows that the school bus is coming long before the school bus comes. How do they know that? Are they smelling it or they just know it's this time of day?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I think both things are true. Right. Again, they're great. They understand our habits. So if we create a habit, they learn that perfectly right away. That's how you can train a dog, just by creating a habit.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right. That's how Pavlov trained the dogs.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

That's right. Right. Like they learn associ come and go at the same time every day. They know when that time is and they're ready for you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And if you feed them at the same time every day, they know that as well.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Right. Even if we don't think we're doing it, you know, the dog will show up ready to be fed.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

But also, I do think the smells of the, the room change over the course of the day. And they're attuned to that. Just like it gets dark outside and we notice that the day is ending. Right. It's a totally normal thing for us to notice. They're also noticing the day in odors, I think.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think this is so interesting because, you know, for years we were told that, that your dog doesn't know the difference between five minutes or five hours. So what you were saying to Marissa really changes all that that your dog does. Your dog isn't saying, oh, well, 7:07 or it's been 25 minutes or it's been an hour.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's, that's, that's a human concept. That's a human concept.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They do know the difference between it's been five Hours, or it's been five minutes or it's been five days.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

That's right. They feel that. And they're noting all those changes of the day, as we'd expect. Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And when you're not there, they're stressed.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah. It's stressful to be apart. Right. But they also can calm from that stress.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And for some dogs, it's more stressful than others. I had a dog, Sophie, who just literally, I couldn't leave her anywhere. She had such anxiety.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah. I mean, in children howling in the hotel rooms, it's like an insecure attachment, right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

But with a dog who has a secure attachment, when you come, they calm. Right. The stress is transient. It's just they want to be back in that relationship.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What are they doing all day? So there's so many people who are listening to us right now who have pets and they obviously have to leave home. And what are those dogs doing all day?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah, well, often, not a lot. We don't usually give them a lot to do. So they'll try to work. Yeah, dogs get absolutely. Get bored during the day. Right. I think it's a great. They'll rest. So it's not that they have to be at work all day doing something, but if we give them nothing to do, they'll find things to do. I think a lot of what we think of as misbehavior, pulling out our shoes and chewing on them and so forth, that's because they were bored. They didn't have anything to do.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Nothing to do. Is it better to have. As I said at one point, I had 11 dogs at one time. That's too much. Unless you do have a farm. But I've always thought that having at least another dog is good for the dog.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I think it depends on the dog and the person, the type of relationship you want to have. I mean, now you live with one dog and, you know, that's a very specific relationship. When you have many dogs, they get to have relationships with each other. Right. Which is great companionship.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So if you're a working person, is it better to have two dogs? Because that dog has a relationship with something, that dog has something to do during the day.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

It does give them social companion. So for a lot of dogs, that's great. I mean, some dogs don't want to be with any other dog. So I would. You have to know your dog. But yeah, social companionship during the day. Come over, bother me, come over, play with me. That's much better than being left alone. If you're A social creature, Jaime is

[Oprah Winfrey]

zooming in from Houston. Welcome, Jaime. Hi there.

[Jaime]

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a wonderful conversation. My dog Lennox was 14. He died on December 10th of 2025. And, sorry, I'm going to try to get through my question without crying. I know he was the most amazing dog, and he was with me through every life milestone. The birth of my children, my wedding. And when he passed, we had a week of time before we were going to have to euthanize him. He was deteriorating, and the vet said that that was the best decision. And my question is just, did he understand that that was his time? Because obviously we made the decision for him.

[Marissa]

And I feel a lot of guilt

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

that I took time away from him. So I just want to understand if

[Jaime]

he understood that it was his time

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

and that it's okay. That's so hard. No. And I think what you're experiencing, we experience. Right. And this is a normal grief, is a normal part of a strong relationship ending. And I think a lot of people do have to, unfortunately, be in that situation where they're making a decision about the end of their animal's life. Right. I think that's very hard. So don't make yourself feel guilty about it. Now. You're dog, Lennox probably knew that he was aging. Right. He could feel, I can't jump up. I don't hear as well. I can't run as fast as I used to. So they're experiencing their own aging process, as we've said before. You know, I don't think that they really live in the moment. I think they're thinking ahead and they're remembering the past. But they're such great observers of that moment. And the things you were doing for him in his final week, he would have been completely gladdened by those things. Right. Those were terrific things. And having you there and being with him, that's what he would have noticed. Not felt suspicious or worried or anticipating something horrible happening. Right. So he knew where he was, and what he wanted was to be in that space with you, and that's what you gave him.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So don't feel the guilt. You know, Jaime, if you've been listening, I was sharing. I'm going through this right now, and, you know, I was just asking myself the question this morning. If we didn't have all of these medications trying to keep her from having pain, would she have already gone on her own? And so I'm wrestling with this question right now. When is it time? How did you all come to the Decision that it was time.

[Jaime]

When we went to the vet, he was just, like, having a lot of trouble, like, holding on to his bowels and just, like, having a regular, normal life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jaime]

And we basically, like, tried to explore other options, and the veterinarian said that regardless of the other options, he would never be the same Lennox he was when he was, like, running and jumping and doing all the things. And so it was just the decision of we can keep him on this medication regimen, but he still could not have the best quality of life.

[Rachel]

So that.

[Jaime]

That was the choice to make, to give him peace.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's the quality of life that matters.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah. And the spirit. And when you say, this not gonna be the same, Lennox. Right. When you see that this person, this dog, you know, is lost themselves at some level. Right. They're not the same spirit. That's when you know it's time. Right. And that's so horrible that we have to oversee this part of their life. But it sounds like you did as much as you could for Lennox. And he would have looked in your face and known that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Smelled it.

[Jaime]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

He would have looked in your face and smelled it. Yes. Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How are your family and your kids doing?

[Jaime]

They're doing well. There's a really awesome book about dogs going to heaven, and my son loves to read it. He's 4 years old, and he loves to read it at bedtime during his prayers. He still prays for him every night. So he's still very much with us, even though he's not with us physically. But he's always gonna be a constant. I'm sure. Even if and when we do decide to adopt another dog, he'll always be a part of our family.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I was gonna say, are you. Will you. Will you be adopting another dog?

[Jaime]

It's such a hard choice, Oprah, because before my husband and I said, like, oh, I can't believe people, like, lose a dog and then immediately adopt. But now that we're in this position, we're like, the house is way too quiet. We need a dog immediately. So we're thinking about it. We just. We don't want to rush into it, but we're definitely thinking about it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

You'll get to meet a totally new person.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

You know? Yeah, you'll get. That's the thing. It's not the same one again. It's a new. It's a new relationship.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's a new energy and new relationship,

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

but it does fill that space and that silence.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Jaime. Thanks for sharing. Thank you.

[Jaime]

Thank you for having me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

While we were working on this show, my team came across an Instagram that caught our eye. Listen to Steve's story.

[Steve]

I had a little dog named Wolfgang. He just went everywhere with me. When Wolfgang died, I think he was 12. It was just devastating. So I thought, well, if something good could come out of his death, maybe it would make it better. I decided I would go to the shelter. I would find the oldest dog that wasn't going to get adopted. So I adopted a 13 year old Chihuahua and he was so happy. It was immediately healing. I had plenty of room. So I adopted another one and another one and I ended up at 9. I started an Instagram called Wolfgang2242. It wasn't started out as a senior rescue page. It just grew organically. I realized what I was doing with these dogs was very fulfilling to people because people get to see this dog come from the shelter with its final few years left and get to live out a happy life. What I found out after adopting senior dogs is it's just the best situation. They have settled into the best version of themselves and you get to enjoy that. If you're reading, they want to be right there by your feet and they're great for movie nights. They want to be with you. It's always hard on me when one goes. A lot of people say, how do you keep doing this? But I bring it back to being about the pet. I made sure that they were in a safe, happy, loved home. It's a win. Every time is a win. To know that the Instagram is having an effect on people and more senior dogs are getting adopted. That gives me purpose.

[Rachel]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I hear because of Steve's Instagram page, hundreds of senior dogs have been adopted. That's really incredible. Steve is joining us from Ohio.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Hi, Steve.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You remind me.

[Steve]

Ohio.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm so glad to hear your story because I have a friend, Sally Jordan in Santa Barbara, who's done the same thing over the years. She's adopted, you know, disabled dogs and senior dogs. And you go to her house and dogs are like in their little wheelchair carts and they. Yeah, it's. It's really. It takes a magnanimous heart to do that. Why do you. Because everybody loves the puppies. Everybody loves the puppies. And why are you attracted to the seniors, do you think?

[Steve]

I. Well, I think I wasn't originally because, you know, I've had dogs my whole life, so I've had puppies and that whole experience But I specifically adopted the senior to give my dog's death meaning another dog would get to live because he died. And then I found out how incredible they are. They're so grateful. And as I said in that piece, I think as we get older, we become hopefully the best versions of ourselves. And I think that's what happens with dogs. You know, they just settle into who they are and they're just so easy. It's just so easy. And they're so grateful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. You know what I've noticed too? I realized one of the reasons why I have such peace about getting older myself is because I've watched so many dogs go through that process. Do you find the same thing?

[Steve]

I do. And something you had said earlier that I thought was so important, you know, you said, understanding that you don't have that much time left with Sadie.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Steve]

And that it's. It's special. And I believe that. I believe it's, you know, it's an honor. You are. You get to guard this, you know, living being through the end of their days. And that I think that's just a terrific honor. And there's some beauty in that. I really do believe that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do you have a question for Dr. Horowitz?

[Steve]

Actually, it's kind of a two parter. I've been, as I said, rescuing senior dogs for almost 15 years now. And when they come to me, they either don't have a name or they've got their name from, you know, their previous life. And I always change it. Almost always change it. There's been one or two that I kept. My thought was, you know, new life, new name. But I read once that a dog associates their name with you, not with themselves. So, you know, like Moira here would be like, okay, this tall, skinny old man calls me Moira. And therefore it has no ill effect on them by renaming them because they associate it with you. And I wondered what your thoughts were on that.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I mean, I think that's a really great, cool observation. There is something to it in that, you know, who is saying their name and how they are saying it. I think it's part of what their name is to a dog. In other words, it's not words on a page to them.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Say it again. Who is saying their name?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Who is saying their name and how you're saying how they're saying it is what their name is. Right. And we know this actually kind of intuitively because if you've lived with dogs, you give your dogs nicknames. Right. My pumpernickel, who was In Inside of a Dog, she's Pee, Nickel and Nick and Pump and Kiddo and. And she came to all those names. Right. And dogs learn their names really quickly, but they're also very much associating it with who's saying it to them and how they're saying it to them. And so, yeah, they can pick up on this new name, which means a new life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Steve]

Yeah, that makes sense. The second part of the question is I have never, in all the years I've been doing this, I have never once had trouble bringing a dog into the group. I've never had my group not accept a dog, and I've never had the new dog not accept the group. I don't know whether that's because they're all seniors and they're just kind of laid back and chill, or is it because that there's so many dogs. They're not as territorial over me as if I just had one dog.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I think they probably do establish their own social group which includes you. Right. But includes each other. And they're seeing that when they come in. But I think probably my speculation would be. The main part of it is that when we mostly meet dogs, their puppies are adolescents. And at that time in their life, you know, their body has far outpaced the development of their brain. They have not grown into their brains yet. And as adult and senior dogs, their brain has caught up.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

And they can just be the flexible social companions to each other that they're so good at being. And the reason we domesticated them.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Every time I was introducing a new dog, I remember introducing Sunny and Lauren to Luke and Layla and Sadie in that group. And I would put my T shirt on the new dogs, let the new dogs sleep in my T shirt overnight and introduce the new dogs to the old dogs in my T shirt. So there would be my. Combined with the. Combined with the scent of the dogs.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

You were already a smell scientist.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I knew. Yeah, There was something about my scent. Yeah.

[Steve]

That's interesting. I'd also heard that if you take them for a walk together immediately, that establishes they're in the same pack and that gets rid of any. I've never had that issue. But when people have asked me about it and they've probably got two dogs and bringing a third one in, that's usually what I tell them to do.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

That's great advice. Right. Like, it's like having a conversation with. A hard conversation with a child. You want to sit both in the car and face the same direction. You know, go on A walk together let the dogs kind of experience the world in parallel for a moment before they come back into the space where somebody has their special bed or someone likes a certain spot and doesn't want to have someone else be in there.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How many dogs do you have right now? How many dogs?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Who's on the couch?

[Steve]

It's funny because I laughed when you said that you had 11 at one point. I keep nine. That's my number. That's the number I can deal with the best. And having said that, there's a rescue group that I work with in Florida a lot and they just talked me into taking another one. So right Now I have 10, although my normal number is nine.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you.

[Steve]

It is different because they're seniors. So it's, you know, it's a different. Their activity level is different.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, well, yeah, I had no seniors. It was crazy all the time and feeding time was always crazy. And you know, I have to say this. For years I was making all the food for my dogs, and for years Sadie has had homemade fresh food, and now she only eats the farmer's dog.

[Steve]

Oh, that's exactly what I feed, too.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You feed your dog's. The farmer's dog.

[Steve]

Yeah. And I just, I tried to do with my dogs what I do with myself. You know, the, the, the more, the less processed the food is, you know, the fresher the food is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Steve]

And I've seen dogs come to me from a bad situation and they start eating, you know, less processed fresh food and they just come to life. It makes such a difference.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do senior dogs need a special diet?

[Steve]

Only if they. Like I have one that's in kidney failure too.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Steve]

And that one needs a special diet.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Generally speaking, the rest of them all eat the same thing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And your dog that's in kidney failure, what are you doing special for that dog?

[Steve]

We do fluids. Yeah. And then I have a renal diet because it's, it's lower in protein and it's lower in assault, I believe. So, you know, she has to be on that. And then I have to do the fluids like three times a week. And then we just found out that she's got a low grade heart disease now, which is really tough because what you do for heart disease, it conflicts with what they've got with kidney disease. So the heart disease does not want fluids, and yet I have to do the fluids. So I just have to back off the fluids and do less of them. But maybe more often.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I don't want to see your vet go. It's A. I don't want to see your pet pill. Oh, honey chow.

[Steve]

It's funny. I was just there today and I have to go back in the morning. It's just. Yeah, it's. And then. But to be fair, there will be months and months where I don't have to go at all. And everybody's great, you know, and then sometimes it rains.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what I was going to say. Steve, I think a lot of people fear adopting a senior dog because they'll be set number one set in their behaviors. Or you think that the dog is going to soon die, or you think you're going to have all kinds of medical problems. What do you want people to know about what it's like to adopt an older dog?

[Steve]

Yeah. To me, it's really just. It's that they're so easy. They fit into your lifestyle very easily. And then as far as the vet, I mean, if you're not crazy like me and you don't have nine of them, then you know it's affordable to get insurance.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Steve]

You know, so if you've only got one or two, then you can get insurance to prevent that. But I had a dog recently die at 17. She was only at the vet a couple times, and it was for teeth cleaning. So you just, you know, it's luck of the draw. And that's true with a puppy as well.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much. We love your Instagram.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

It's so great.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's so great. It's so great. Thank you, Steve.

[Steve]

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And all 10 dogs now.

[Steve]

10 dogs now.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You'll make it to 11. It'll happen.

[Steve]

Two of them are 17, so I think we're walking a tightrope right now, too.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, I understand. Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you.

[Steve]

You bet. Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What do you most want people to. You wish they knew about the inside of a dog?

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I mean, I want people to let dogs be dogs, realize that they're not little furry humans. Right. They're not stuffed feathers.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They don't care about being dressed up.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

They don't care about being dressed up, except for maybe if they don't love it or if you give them a lot of attention. And, you know, the reason we love them is because they're different than us. And so I think we should celebrate those differences and let them be themselves.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. When I first started reading this book, I was fascinated because I've seen people out with their dogs with raincoats when I lived in Chicago, I had a raincoat. And reading this book, I know that's the last thing the dog wanted was a raincoat.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

The only thing interesting about the raincoat is if it means they're being taken out. Right. Yeah, but other than that.

[Rachel]

Right.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

It's, you know, it feels like someone pressing on their back. They don't need a raincoat. Their body is suited for that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, you say that to everybody. We're thinking you're putting the coat on them because it's going to keep them warm or keep them dry or keep them that. And for them, it feels like pressure.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

For the dog, it's like someone is pressing on their back to have a raincoat on. Right. And in wolves, we know that that's done when they're being scolded. May. Yes. For misbehavior by an adult, an older dog. And so your dog is accepting the raincoat, but no dog is, like, putting it on.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's really glad to get it off. Right.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

They're glad to get them off and they'll deal with it. Like, they deal with a lot of nonsense from us. Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Dogs put up with a lot, and they're flexible and they can. But if we were really interested in what they want, you know, I think we'd look at their behavior instead of just assuming that they're little furry humans.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I think when they get together, they must say, can you believe what my human did today? She had me dressed up in a Halloween costume and I look ridiculous. Yes. I think that. Do they also, it seems like as soon as I would give the dogs a bath, they would go find, especially out here, some cow dung to roll in.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah, yeah. They don't want to smell like your coconut shampoo. They want to smell like where they've been and who they are. And that's actually how they recognize each other. Right. They can smell who someone is, a person or another dog, by their scent. So they'd rather not be perfumed. Right. They'd rather smell like something fantastic.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So even if you. Obviously, we have to bathe our dogs, but if you're going to bathe your

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

dog once in a while. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You should bathe your dog in a scentless shampoo.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

I think that would be better. Yeah. And just put up with, you know, their being unshowered once in a while. Right. That's the case.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They don't like to get bathed.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

They don't tend to. Right. You know, if your dog is hopping. If your dog is hopping in the bath, then go for it. Otherwise, I think they would rather not.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But we want them to be clean. We want them to be clean coming in the house.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

Yeah. If they're rolling in cow dung.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Alexandra Horowitz]

You have my permission.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you. Cow dung is where it ends. Thank you. Dr. Horowitz's book, Inside of a Dog is now fully revised and updated and available everywhere books are sold. It's gonna change the way you take your dog on their next walk. A big thank you to the Farmer's Dog for partnering with us on this episode. Their fresh food has been clinically shown to help dogs age well so you can have more good years together. And as I said, for years, I made all of my dog's food, and I ran into somebody from Farmer's Dog and they said, have you tried Farmer's Dog? And I was like, no, never tried that. Because we make our dog food fresh from scratch. And I can tell you that we put a bowl of the freshly made food that we had done and the fresh food from Farmer's Dog, and now that's all Sadie's eating. Pretty amazing. Thank you, Dr. Horowitz and Rachel and Marissa for being with us here in Jaime and Steve for joining us today. Inside of a Dog. If you have a dog, you need this book or give it to a friend. It's a great gift for a friend who has a dog. Go well, everybody. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.