← The Oprah Podcast
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- [00:03]
Oprah Winfrey
Okay. Eckhart Tolle. I mean, my favorite, favorite, favorite conversation to have in the world. I'm so happy. So how many of you were Eckhart readers before this? Eckhart readers. Oh. Oh. This is the Eckhart reading class over here. And how many of you? This is your first time. Oh, this is exciting, too.
- [00:24]
Eckhart Tolle
Wow.
- [00:26]
Oprah Winfrey
This makes my heart sing. I'm so excited. Back In January of 2025, I picked Eckhart Tolle's seminal book, A new awakening to your life's purpose for the second time. For my book club. That's the first time I've ever picked a book twice. Because that is how strongly I believe in Eckhart's profound spiritual insights.
- [00:48]
Eckhart Tolle
Deep within you, there is a silent power.
- [00:51]
Oprah Winfrey
This year marks the 20th anniversary of A New Earth. It's been translated into 50 languages and sold over 15 million copies. I believe that Eckhart's teachings have never been more relevant or needed than they are right now.
- [01:06]
Eckhart Tolle
Even one conscious breath is a mini meditation.
- [01:11]
Oprah Winfrey
My hope and intention is that these principles can help you navigate the turbulent times we are now living in. Eckhart and I met at a local Starbucks in New York City for some coffee and conversation with an audience who had just read this book. They had so many breakthrough moments around his teachings that we recorded this special bonus episode. I'm excited to share with you. First, listen to what the audience told us about their experience.
- [01:38]
Audience Member 1
To have the gift of being together in an audience where we got to share moments of just presencing together, I think was a very special thing. Being in the same room with Oprah and Eckhart felt like walking through a portal of presence.
- [01:53]
Audience Member 2
It was my first time reading A New Earth. It's the main thing for me. I just took away being more present in my life. And it's amazing the rewards that just come from that simple task.
- [02:01]
Oprah Winfrey
For me, it was like going to church. Like the best church you've ever been to.
- [02:06]
Audience Member 1
Like, you never need to go to church again.
- [02:10]
Audience Member 3
Something shifted when Eckhart started to talk about the Pain Body, which I have read over and over again.
- [02:17]
Audience Member 1
One can find great refuge in just.
- [02:21]
Audience Member 3
The presence of the now.
- [02:23]
Oprah Winfrey
Know thyself. Cease to identify with the content of your life. Big aha moment for me.
- [02:32]
Audience Member 1
How I do what I do matters more than what I do.
- [02:37]
Audience Member 4
To understand that it's not always about me and that everyone is on their.
- [02:42]
Audience Member 3
Own spiritual journey, I'm living life awake, one day at a time. For the very first time in my.
- [02:48]
Oprah Winfrey
Life, reading A New Earth was A big shift for me. I have never had a favorite book before. I do now. Eckhart Tolle's pearls of wisdom have enriched my inner peace, and I love myself more.
- [03:05]
Audience Member 3
A Day with Eckhart and Oprah.
- [03:07]
Oprah Winfrey
How does it get any better than that? What else is possible? Truly, dear listener, I'm hoping that you enjoyed this special bonus episode of our transformative conversation with Eckhart Tolle. Mark, did you have a question? Yeah. Yeah.
- [03:23]
Audience Member 4
So I feel like I've been on this journey for definitely quite some time, and your book absolutely contextualized a lot of where I'm currently at. And for me, I'm at this place where I'm a social person by nature, but my job demands me to be extremely social. And I feel that in moving towards a more present place of consciousness, I am constantly managing a tremendous amount of people who are not as aware, which will oftentimes then lead me to feel either very isolated or lonely or not quite know how to manage myself. So I guess my question is, how do you take care of yourself when you're constantly managing all of the egos around you who may not be as aware or present as you are right now?
- [04:10]
Eckhart Tolle
Do you find yourself resenting the fact that other people are not present?
- [04:17]
Audience Member 4
I think I ebb and flow. I think there's times where I'll go into consciousness and I'll say, okay, you know, that's where they are, and this is where I am, and I have to respect them for where they're at. And then there's other times where I'm like, oh, this is really hard.
- [04:31]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [04:32]
Audience Member 4
And I will get angry.
- [04:33]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [04:33]
Audience Member 4
Yes.
- [04:34]
Eckhart Tolle
That's part of the acceptance practice of the present moment. What is? Because it's quite normal for humans to be surrounded by other humans who are not doing what they're supposed to do. That's usually the case that they go against your expectations. You might have noticed that humans can be quite difficult. Not, Not. Not you, the others. Not. And. And so it's very important to make that part of your presence practice of accepting the limitations of other humans. And again, don't make those things.
- [05:13]
Oprah Winfrey
Oh, I love that. Make that a part of the presence practice, you accepting the people who don't get it the same way you do, that they're there. What are they there to teach you? Acceptance.
- [05:30]
Eckhart Tolle
Exactly.
- [05:33]
Oprah Winfrey
They're there to teach you acceptance. They're there to help you to surrender into the space. And I think surrender is such a hard term for people, because for most people, it means giving up.
- [05:46]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [05:46]
Oprah Winfrey
Or I failed, or I've given in, or I've, you know, I didn't keep. I didn't fight it.
- [05:52]
Eckhart Tolle
Yeah. That's not. Surrender is a very powerful thing. It's not this. I mean, there's another word, resignation. You risk. You do. That's a different thing. There's negativity about resignation. There's nothing I can do in English. English language has two expressions. One is I don't mind. And the other one is I don't care. So we're not. Not talking about I don't care because there's a negativity. You might have given up. I just don't care anymore. Of course.
- [06:23]
Oprah Winfrey
Mark just had aha. I can see it. Mark is aha over there. I think that's great.
- [06:26]
Eckhart Tolle
When you say.
- [06:27]
Oprah Winfrey
That is why it's there.
- [06:28]
Eckhart Tolle
When you say I don't care anymore. You still care. There's a negativity inside that I don't care anymore. What. It still does. But see, I don't mind that. Then you're free.
- [06:39]
Oprah Winfrey
I don't mind. Ooh, that's a good one, isn't it? Okay. What just happened to Mark is one of the big lessons I learned the very first time I read this book. On page 41, where you say, life will give you whatever experience is most helpful for the evolution of your consciousness. How do you know this is the experience you need? Because this is the experience you are having at this moment. I think a lot of people have trouble with that phrase because they think that you're saying you brought this moment on yourself, but that's not what you're saying.
- [07:11]
Eckhart Tolle
No, no. You will often find in New Age teachings.
- [07:16]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [07:17]
Eckhart Tolle
You will find often people say you created. Why did you choose that?
- [07:22]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [07:22]
Eckhart Tolle
Why did you created that moment? And I never say that you created the norm. What I do say is accept this moment as if you had chosen it. I don't say you chose it. That's not helpful because that makes you feel guilty or resentful. No, I didn't.
- [07:40]
Oprah Winfrey
Why would I choose this? I didn't do this to myself. Yeah.
- [07:43]
Eckhart Tolle
Accept this moment as if you had chosen it.
- [07:46]
Oprah Winfrey
Because it's here.
- [07:47]
Eckhart Tolle
That. That works.
- [07:48]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it is there for the evolution of your consciousness, everything. So think about that for a moment. Life will give you the experience you need for the evolution of your consciousness. And how do you know that's the experience you need? Because that's the experience you're having. And think about every time you've been through a tough thing. What Was it there to do? It was to evolve you to the next level. Right. No matter how hard it was, it was there to evolve you, to help you move out of that and move you to the next level. So when you're in the middle of the thing, you just ask the thing, what is it you, what are you here to show me so I can move on out quickly? That's what I. That's what I found.
- [08:34]
Eckhart Tolle
And sometimes you don't know until afterwards why it did that for you, But. And now a child, for example, a child cannot probably cannot do that, cannot ask, why am I? What is, what is it teaching me? But afterwards we look, look back on their childhood and say all the suffering that I went through as a child were actually part of my evolution. If I had had a more normal childhood, I wouldn't be who I am. The same with you, because I remember you talked about your childhood and your mother. If your mother had been able to give you true love, more love, you won't be who you are because that forced you to go deeper within yourself and find the source of that.
- [09:16]
Oprah Winfrey
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's hard to see it, particularly when you're a child, though, you can't see it. So I want to introduce you all to Victoria Garrick Brown and Aubrey Gavallo. They are zooming in from Los Angeles and I hear that you guys were inspired by eckhart's and my 10 part digital series of A New Earth. They host their own podcast series on A New Earth to bring it to a different generation, a younger generation. It's called so much to say. So hi to both of you and tell us, how did this come about?
- [09:48]
Victoria Garrick Brown
Hi, I'm Victoria. Aubrey, thank you so much for this opportunity. We first started reading the book and we only got through about three chapters until we needed a breather.
- [10:00]
Audience Member 1
It's dense. It's very dense.
- [10:02]
Aubrey Gavallo
I felt moved and changed.
- [10:03]
Victoria Garrick Brown
It took us a few years to then we had grasped just the awareness of ourselves versus ego to then finish the book and go further into the material. And when we did that, we would call each other and we'd go over the chapters and we thought, why not record this so that other people who maybe don't have a friend who wants to do the work can listen and feel part of it.
- [10:26]
Aubrey Gavallo
And as far as the title, we. I would call Victoria after every chapter and just say, I have so much to say. And she was like, there it is. There's the title of the podcast.
- [10:36]
Oprah Winfrey
So much to say. So what, what have been the biggest Aha's for you both.
- [10:42]
Victoria Garrick Brown
Well, actually, Oprah, the quote that you just read is the one that I was joking when Chris Evans was on. That's the one. I would tattoo it literally. It helps you accept the moment as it comes. But there was actually a part that we're still stuck on and we're hoping Eckhart could help us better understand it. It's on page 141 and it says nothing ever happened in the past that can prevent you from being present now. And if the past cannot prevent you from being present now, what power does it have?
- [11:08]
Audience Member 1
Yeah.
- [11:08]
Aubrey Gavallo
And you know, as a personal example, my dad passed away when I was young. And while I'm in a great place in my life now, that is something that I hold with me every day. And I'm curious how you hold presence while also still holding space for that person and that sort of loss.
- [11:24]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes. So you can remember the past, but at the same time be in touch with the deeper dimension of presence. As you remember the past, you are not the past. The memory of the past does not completely absorb your attention. Some of your attention remains within you as the awareness you are. The awareness of this. This memory lives in you and your honor. This memory, you're not completely absorbed in it, you're not completely consumed by it. That's also the case if, for example, somebody close to you dies. Of course there is mourning, there's deep sadness. And usually after somebody close to you dies, sadness comes in waves. It comes and goes. That is something to be allowed, and that's fine. But in between the waves of sadness, you can go into, come to a place of acceptance, go deep within. So there's peace even. And then even when a wave of sadness comes, there's still peace underneath the sadness. That's. I experienced that when my parents died. There were tears. And at the same time there was an underlying peace. There was an acceptance and a peace and they both coexist. They. It does not exclude the fact that you are mourning. What you need to be careful about is that the. The mourning does not talk, does not develop into something pathological because you could be. If two years later you're still weeping a lot. This then this sadness has taken over possession of your mind. You cannot stop thinking about this person that passed away. You're continuously driving the memories and the memories are very painful now. All the good times you had now considered as very painful memories because they're all gone. And then mourning can become pathological. So you have to be careful that there's A time for mourning. And then there's a time for also for letting go. Eventually then the peace prevails rather than the sadness may still, still come in little waves. But then peace begins to take over. It's you always live in always two worlds. This, who knows, I sometimes call it. You're a human being. You're a human. That's the person. That's conditioning of the person, that has the reactions of a person. But many humans don't realize yet that they are all. There's a being dimension which is the awareness. And so you have to. You have one foot in the human world where you are a person conditioned by the past and you have, you need to have a certain amount of compassion with that entity, also that character that you are. You have some compassion, but you are more.
- [14:27]
Oprah Winfrey
That's your human part.
- [14:29]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes. More fundamentally you are the being. And so the realization of the beingness of you, of the deep, I am. That is the spiritual realization. But the important thing is this being dimension as opposed to what many so called spiritual people believe. They think, they believe that at some point they are going to become enlightened if this or that or the other happens. But it never happens in time. Spiritual awakening is not an achievement, it's a discovery because everybody already has that dimension within themselves. You don't need to get it, you don't need to achieve it. You only need to discover what's already there because it's something, it's a part of you.
- [15:19]
Oprah Winfrey
Being a human being.
- [15:22]
Eckhart Tolle
And being is the essence of you.
- [15:24]
Oprah Winfrey
Being is the essence of you. That is why we're here.
- [15:27]
Eckhart Tolle
That's right.
- [15:28]
Oprah Winfrey
Is to discover that.
- [15:29]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes, that's the discovery of all the ancient traditions.
- [15:32]
Oprah Winfrey
I don't think we're doing a good job. I don't think we're doing such a.
- [15:36]
Eckhart Tolle
Good job in progress. So we're not a finished product. So and that's the good news. Because if we were with humans, we're finished product. We very sad.
- [15:46]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah, okay. Eckart says each one of us is a work in progress. Our spiritual development is far from finished. We are on the way to awakening, but we haven't arrived yet. Being awake means reaching the deeper dimension of ourselves and that is higher than thinking. Both Buddha and Jesus describe this heightened awareness. Eckhart says we will find it when we relinquish our normal state of consciousness, which he describes as relentless compulsive thinking.
- [16:20]
Eckhart Tolle
So we are work in progress. And all the ancient traditions point to the very thing that we are talking about, the being Underneath human. This is in esoteric Christianity, discovering the Christ within.
- [16:32]
Oprah Winfrey
Yes.
- [16:33]
Eckhart Tolle
As your essence identity. In Buddhism, they talk about the discovery of your Buddha, your innate Buddha nature. Every human has that Buddha nature. Or in Indian spirituality, it is the Atman, the divinity within you. Brahman is the external divinity and Atman is the the inner divinity.
- [16:57]
Oprah Winfrey
And so unhappiness no longer has a place with you is because you, Eckhart Tolle, in this lifetime as a human, have focused more on your being than your human part.
- [17:12]
Eckhart Tolle
Exactly. Exactly. That's it.
- [17:15]
Oprah Winfrey
I got it. That's exactly. That's exactly it. Thank you so much. I know you all have so much to say. We do.
- [17:23]
Victoria Garrick Brown
And one last thing we wanted to share with you guys is that we have a group chat, we text our aha moments with our friends, and it's called an Eckhart a day. Keeps the ego away.
- [17:32]
Oprah Winfrey
Oh, I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. So what was your Eckhart for today? Did you have an Eckhart saying for today?
- [17:46]
Aubrey Gavallo
This is our Eckhart for the day.
- [17:47]
Oprah Winfrey
Your Eckhart is actually Eckhart for today. An Eckhart a day. Thank you both so much. Thank you so much.
- [17:53]
Eckhart Tolle
Thank you, thank you.
- [17:54]
Oprah Winfrey
I thank you, dear listener, for spending your time with me and Eckhart Tolle here on the Oprah podcast. Coming up, more thought provoking questions from the audience. One reader wants to know this. Whether it's drugs and alcohol, gambling, shopping, or overeating, what does Eckhart say is the one thing that can provide us hope when it comes to addictions? Plus, we've had many conversations about this on the podcast. Young people in smartphones and Eckhart shares his wisdom for a mother who's looking for help managing her teenage son's obsession with social media. Stay with us.
- [18:28]
Audience Member 4
Say hello to the new iced Horchata shaken espresso from Starbucks. This handcrafted espresso drink with hints of cinnamon and vanilla is shaken with ice and oat milk to create the perfect summer sip available for a limited time at Starbucks.
- [18:42]
Oprah Winfrey
I am back with one of the greatest spiritual teachers of our time, Eckhart Tolle. Earlier this year, I chose his book A New Earth for my book club for a second time, something I've never done before. And I believe that his teachings and his wisdom are needed now more than ever. He joined me at a neighborhood Starbucks in New York City with an audience of readers who are looking for answers on how to live a more present and more conscious life. Let's get back to it. Carrie, where are you?
- [19:09]
Audience Member 3
Hi. Thank you both. I wasn't able to receive this message when I read it a long time ago. I was a young mom and I experienced some severe big T trauma that I never dealt with. Well, I dealt with it with addictive behaviors that I'm ashamed of, and I never tackled those ever until this past year. So when I reread this book, I was able to receive it for the first time. So I'm truly grateful for that. But the pain of big T trauma and the numbing out of addictive behaviors can come in like a tsunami and just take. It takes me out the memories and I haven't yet been able to deal with that pain body. I haven't been able to make peace with. With that person. And I keep in this shame spiral. So how. How do we separate our identity and honor our experiences and get through that? Like, aren't addictive behaviors just feeding the pain body? And how do I separate that?
- [20:31]
Eckhart Tolle
Just. Can you give an example, can you give an example of the addictive behavior so that we can feel it more?
- [20:40]
Audience Member 3
Yeah, my addictive behaviors are definitely alcohol.
- [20:44]
Eckhart Tolle
Right.
- [20:45]
Audience Member 3
And over shopping would be the two things that I numb out to.
- [20:50]
Eckhart Tolle
And so you still experience that occasionally as a recurring problem?
- [20:56]
Audience Member 3
Yes, that. That's what I'm in treatment for and in therapy for.
- [21:01]
Eckhart Tolle
Right. Okay, let's see. So addiction of that kind can be very, very powerful. They're almost like a case of possession. You're possessed by the. It can transform a person's behavior. That in their case, it's alcohol or shopping. I will usually recommend that when you feel the addictive pull coming on, you can feel it in yourself at that moment. Create a time interval and allow yourself to feel the energy of the addiction. That pull that wants you to has taken you over. Instead of immediately doing what it wants you to do and giving in, make it into a meditation. Put the light of your awareness on the feeling of it.
- [21:57]
Oprah Winfrey
Won't that send you further into wanting to do it?
- [22:01]
Eckhart Tolle
No, because awareness grows, the awareness will grow. And the. Because you're shining the light of awareness on an unconscious pattern. Whenever you shine the light of awareness on an unconscious pattern, it tends to shrink, diminish. It may not go away immediately. It's still. If it's a strong addiction, it will try to linger. So you may have to do it, but quite often. So I worked with somebody who was extremely overweight, and he had this eating addiction.
- [22:37]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [22:38]
Eckhart Tolle
And. And he said often he would not. He would be so Unconscious that when he would only discover that he's been eating again. When he's already. He's already swallowing in the middle of the night, he would get up, go to the fridge, get something out. And so. And then he's eating something and suddenly realize that he's eating something again. The. The whole.
- [23:01]
Oprah Winfrey
Because he had done that unconsciously.
- [23:02]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes. I mean, he's not sleepwalking, but he'd done it unconscious. Speaking unconscious. And so it worked for him to introduce a time interval between. Instead of giving in when he discovers the impulse, feel it and be there as the witnessing presence of it. So be there as the witnessing presence and make it gradually allow the time interval to be longer. Longer translates. 10, 15 minutes. Feel the. And then perhaps I would have eaten.
- [23:38]
Oprah Winfrey
The thing by that time. I know exactly what you're talking about. I've been standing in the pantry.
- [23:43]
Eckhart Tolle
Yeah.
- [23:44]
Oprah Winfrey
And I've gone to the pantry because something happened that upset me because I'm an emotional eater. And I will be. And I will be opening the nuts and getting the raisins and doing my whole little thing and saying to myself, this is happening now. Because that was an upsetting phone call, and I didn't want to have to deal with that, and I had to deal with that. And so now I just need to eat something to calm myself down. So I'm very much aware of why I'm in there.
- [24:09]
Eckhart Tolle
That's a very important aspect of it, what you just said, the mental commentary that justifies the behavior. That's a very important aspect of it. So in your case, there's a reason why you allow yourself to do that. With the person I worked with here, for example, had the mind pattern says, you have had a rough day. You deserve a treat.
- [24:32]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [24:33]
Eckhart Tolle
What else have you got in your life? It's your only pleasure. You've got lost. You've got left in your life. You might as well. You have nothing else, do you? This was the. The mind had been taken over by the addiction and justifying the addiction.
- [24:47]
Oprah Winfrey
And so what do you tell yourself when you're shopping?
- [24:52]
Audience Member 3
I'm unconscious to it. I don't even know I'm doing it until it's over. And then I'm filled with shame, and then I'm angry with myself over and over, and I'm stuck in that cycle of shame. So now I've received this book differently. So I feel like it's my first step to being present and riding the wave of the urge, like not scratching it or not, or not giving in to the addiction.
- [25:23]
Oprah Winfrey
Just observing it, Just observing it.
- [25:26]
Audience Member 3
And it's really hard to do.
- [25:28]
Oprah Winfrey
It's hard, but. It's hard. But you're right, it's first step and first step for you. So for all of you who are reading it for the first time, I'm so excited. Because what it does is it opens the aperture. It allows you to see your life differently. And as you stay more open, more things will show up. More books, more experiences, more conversations that lead you to a more being space for yourself than just doing, Doing. Doing the whole human thing. So this is. This is the beginning for those of you who've. Don't you feel that way those of you who've read it before, that it opens the door for much bigger things. Laura's here with her son Oliver, who's 13 and in the ninth grade. Laura, what's your question?
- [26:16]
Audience Member 5
So as adults, of course, I mean, we're all engaged in social media now, but we didn't grow up like with social media, since we were aware and my son and all teenagers are in that space. So how. With that immersion or maybe addiction to social media and the stimulation, how can they be truly present?
- [26:41]
Eckhart Tolle
Well, that's a very big thing, a very big challenge for youngsters, especially these days.
- [26:48]
Oprah Winfrey
I love what you said. The producer wrote that you said, how do I even begin to teach him this work of being present when they're not present at all during the day and they're continuously fed a bunch of shit? Is that what I said?
- [27:02]
Audience Member 1
Oh, God.
- [27:03]
Oprah Winfrey
That's what you said. So they're continuously fed a bunch of shit through social media all day. That's falsely telling them who they are. How do I break this cycle? How do I even begin to teach them what's inside the pages of this book? Actually, when I heard you were coming in, I was thinking, you need a young person's version of this.
- [27:25]
Eckhart Tolle
You do.
- [27:25]
Oprah Winfrey
You need to break it down.
- [27:27]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [27:29]
Oprah Winfrey
And then maybe we all could read that book and Phil. And it won't take them a year to get through it. Yes. Yeah, but I can't even imagine. Because I'm a person who is on social media and I use it for work and Oprah daily and all that. But I try to personally keep myself out of it. The storm of it. Cause it's vicious and vile and all consuming. It's just. And it's getting worse. Don't you all think it's getting worse? Actually getting much worse.
- [28:04]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [28:04]
Oprah Winfrey
And if you get yourself sucked into that, you can absolutely lose yourself.
- [28:09]
Eckhart Tolle
Exactly.
- [28:09]
Oprah Winfrey
If you Think who you are, is who people are representing you to be online. Then you will. You. You will be messed up.
- [28:14]
Eckhart Tolle
A huge addiction for many people and also becomes part of their egoic identity. That's the. They look for recognition, a sense of self worth.
- [28:29]
Oprah Winfrey
Well, the likes have become the thing likes.
- [28:32]
Eckhart Tolle
And then they have hundreds or thousands of friends that never even met in many cases. And then they post all kinds of photos of themselves that are modified by technology. So if they met one of their thousands of friends in. In the flesh, they wouldn't even recognize them because it's all make believe. And this is perhaps the greatest challenge in our civilization is that technology, if we don't master could easily lead to a breakdown of civilization within two generations. Because the ability to focus your mind is a vital thing for not for creating something new or for solving problems. If you lose the ability for prolonged focus, as many youngsters do, because the continuous stimulus, shorter and shorter attention spans, if you lose that, then you lose the ability to become creative. You lose the ability to solve problems because you need to be able to focus. So where are we all? It's our first, our responsibility to restrict our own use of these and to see how addictive that is. I can feel it in myself. I don't use it that much. I don't post things personally. But what. The moment you interact with that thing, there's a. It pulls you in. There's some kind of like magnet thing. It pulls and it pulls your attention out of you and goes all in there. You lose yourself. So first you lose yourself in your mind. But in a way, you could say that device is your externalized mind. I wrote in the book, you lose yourself in your mind and now you not only lose yourself in your mind, you lose yourself in a technological amplification of your mind in the form of this device.
- [30:31]
Oprah Winfrey
Eckhart believes science and technology have made miraculous changes in the way we live. However, Eckhart believes these advancements contribute to our collective insanity. He says they magnify human dysfunction to such a degree it's threatening the survival of the planet. Well, let's give Oliver credit because Oliver went to you. Oliver, I think that's so cool. You went to your mom asking for help because you realize yourself you're obsessed with it, right? Because how much time do you spend on your phone? A good amount. A good amount. Yeah.
- [31:12]
Audience Member 5
And we can only control it when he's at home, of course. So, you know. I know. There's that idea of kids being more reactive again. You get the beep they'll be crossing the street and look at their phone, whereas an adult has the ability not to. But they're so quick to be back on it as soon as anything, you know, buzzes or such.
- [31:34]
Eckhart Tolle
In some countries, I believe I read something recently, Australia, was it. Were they restricting the use of devices for youngsters? How exactly they go about it, I don't know. So at some point, I think we need to arrive at that. The point where we restrain, especially very young children must not use these things or very controlled if they do.
- [31:59]
Oprah Winfrey
So what did you say earlier? That within two generations, did you say.
- [32:03]
Eckhart Tolle
It could be that that civilization would collapse if the new, new generation of you lose the ability to focus their mind on something? How are we going to deal with the problems of the world if we cannot focus anymore? Because any solution requires focused attention. If humans lose that ability, then what's going to happen? So it's everybody's responsibility. You. If I, I don't have children and it's a bit late now, I'm not going to have any in this incarnation, I can say that for sure. But, oh, you never know. If I had children, I would definitely, in a very gentle way, restrict the use. And they have to get used to this so that only very gradually allow them extended use. And even then I had this conversation.
- [32:58]
Oprah Winfrey
With the author of An Anxious Generation, who's also saying some of the same things that you're saying, that you certainly schools should get together and you should be a certain age and all of that. But the problem is, if all of your friends have it, then you become the odd kid out, you become ostracized, which then begins to shape the way you see yourself and the way the other kids see you. And that in itself is a challenge.
- [33:25]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes. Perhaps it would take families getting together in neighborhoods.
- [33:31]
Oprah Winfrey
Well, that's what just what Jonathan Hyde.
- [33:33]
Eckhart Tolle
Says in Anxious Generation, the collective then comes to an agreement.
- [33:36]
Oprah Winfrey
You're not the only one.
- [33:37]
Eckhart Tolle
You're not the only one. And I think that might be the only solution. So for you to take an initiative, so get in touch with other parents. So you have a group of 50 or whatever group may be.
- [33:51]
Oprah Winfrey
One of the problems is a lot of parents want their kids on it because it means they don't have to actually parent. So that device becomes a substitute for you in your child's life. That's the real truth.
- [34:04]
Eckhart Tolle
That's also harmful.
- [34:05]
Oprah Winfrey
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you for joining us for this very special bonus episode of the Oprah podcast, a continuation of my conversation with spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle. We're taking more thoughtful questions from the audience of readers at a local Starbucks in New York City. And we'll learn why the phrase my life doesn't mean what we all think it should. Listen in Starbucks. It's a great day for coffee. Welcome back, dear listener. I'm in New York City with one of my favorite spiritual thought leaders, Eckhart Tolle. He is the author of a book I always keep on my nightstand. His words and his teachings have fundamentally changed the way I live my life and so many other people who follow his remarkable work. It's called A New Earth. And together, Eckhart and I are surrounded by an audience of readers who have really great questions. Let's return to this conversation. Okay. Kimba, where are you?
- [35:17]
Audience Member 2
So my question is around in a similar fashion. I have a wonderful teenager at home, and he's about to go off to college. And I find myself always asking him the question, what do you want to be when you grow up? You know, what do you want to do?
- [35:32]
Oprah Winfrey
What? College?
- [35:33]
Audience Member 2
You know, every adult in his family is asking him the same question. But after reading this book, I thought, should I not be asking these questions anymore? And shouldn't we both be in the present? So that's my question.
- [35:51]
Eckhart Tolle
Right. Thank you. Well, we have again, coming back to the human and the being. We need to live in both worlds. The transcendent dimension of being and the human world. So this is. It's perfectly legitimate to ask, what do you want to do when you grow up? I wouldn't ask, what do you want? Who do you want to be? It's a.
- [36:21]
Oprah Winfrey
It's a different question because you already are being.
- [36:24]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes. So not to equate being with some external thing. With activities or status in society or possessions. Not to equate being with that. So that's the realm of doing. That belongs to the realm of doing. And there's a place for doing and doing. Of course, all doing requires time. So that's also the place where time operates. So, yeah, you have a future goal, what you want to do next year. So there's that dimension. We honor this dimension. We need to do our best also in the human dimension, but without losing touch with a more vital dimension of the essence of being. That is the mastery of life is finding a balance between the human dimension and the being dimension. Not losing yourself in the human. Now, nobody has perfect balance. You're not. You're right. Except perhaps you.
- [37:28]
Oprah Winfrey
I don't have perfect balance. No, not a bit. Because I'm still in the pantry looking for the nuts.
- [37:35]
Eckhart Tolle
I know you have. You have incredible capacity for doing much more than I have incredible capacity for doing. But you are connected with being.
- [37:45]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [37:46]
Eckhart Tolle
So you are. You are more on the doing side without losing connectedness with being.
- [37:50]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [37:50]
Eckhart Tolle
I'm more on the being side without completely losing my ability to do.
- [37:56]
Oprah Winfrey
To do. Yeah. I have more being than most people I know. I do have more being.
- [38:01]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [38:02]
Oprah Winfrey
I'm nowhere near where you are. Okay. But I spend a lot of time and Gail sometimes will just call and say, what are you doing? Being with your thoughts. Yes, I am. I actually am. It's a running joke with us. Is that, oh, I'm just sitting here being with my thoughts. Yes. Yes. You beautifully sum up, I think, the essence of what this book is on page 295. When you say, not what you do, but how you do what you do determines whether you are fulfilling your destiny. I'm going to say that again. It's not what you do, but how you do what you do determines whether you are fulfilling your destiny. And how you do what you do is determined by your state of consciousness. And ultimately it's about how we bring consciousness to every moment and to every action in our lives. So do we need to be conscious in every single moment? Because that is a tall order for most people.
- [39:07]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes. Don't make impossible demands upon yourself and then beat yourself up if you can't fulfill them.
- [39:13]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [39:14]
Eckhart Tolle
So you don't need to be constantly present because if by. By saying that you're already creating some future.
- [39:23]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [39:23]
Eckhart Tolle
Saying I need to be okay. No, it's actually easier than that. All you need to be present is now. That's. There's nothing else. So that can't be that difficult. But only when the mind comes in and says, yeah, but can you sustain it in the rest of your life, you're losing yourself in the future.
- [39:43]
Oprah Winfrey
Yeah.
- [39:43]
Eckhart Tolle
So. And then it gets difficult because then your self, your identity comes in. Am I spiritual enough to be able to do it? And all kinds of things. Ego, identity comes back in. Am I going to succeed in being present? Another concept, mental concept it. But the actuality of it is more simple. All you need is Right. Be present now. Is that that difficult? No. But then what about the next moment? You don't know because the next moment actually never comes. Never comes. It's always now. So just be present now. And if you. The moment you realize you lost it, you lost your sense of presence in the moment of realization, it's back. Because if you were truly lost, you wouldn't know you're lost.
- [40:35]
Oprah Winfrey
Yes.
- [40:36]
Eckhart Tolle
In the same way that a truly mentally. Let's say a crazy personal. It's a politically incorrect term, but I'm using in a loose sense a crazy person, a really crazy person doesn't know they're crazy. But if you know you're crazy, you're not completely crazy because there's a knowing there.
- [40:54]
Oprah Winfrey
Because there's the awareness.
- [40:55]
Eckhart Tolle
Awareness is there?
- [40:56]
Oprah Winfrey
Yes.
- [40:56]
Eckhart Tolle
Yeah.
- [40:57]
Oprah Winfrey
There's the awareness. I am acting crazy right now.
- [40:59]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
- [41:01]
Oprah Winfrey
I appreciated the book. One of my other favorite passages, I don't even know where it is. I didn't underline it in this version, where you talk about how what a miracle it is. What a what? What an absolute wonder that we are life and that most people move through the world thinking of yourselves as having a life instead of recognizing that you actually are life.
- [41:27]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [41:27]
Oprah Winfrey
You don't have a life.
- [41:28]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [41:29]
Oprah Winfrey
You are life.
- [41:30]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [41:30]
Oprah Winfrey
Can you speak to that?
- [41:31]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes. I often say that you don't have a life because talk. People talk about my life, and they refer to what they identify with, something that they call my life. And this thing they think about continuously because it's promote. It's the most important topic. My life. My life could be more important than my life. And they talk about it and think about it. And of course, what exactly is that? Of course, it's a narrative. It's a story in your mind consisting of memories, things that you did, things that were done to you, all kinds of things that you identify with. Memory banks. So what do people call my life is actually memories, a bundle of memories that they identify with.
- [42:20]
Oprah Winfrey
Eckhart says many of us fabricate an identity for ourselves based on our health, our careers, our finances, our relationships. And Eckhart says over time we weave these elements into a story we call my life. And often we become victim to these narratives. However, Eckhart teaches we don't have to turn difficulties into suffering, because when you become awake or have a full sense of awareness of, we can liberate ourselves from the shackles of our incessant thinking.
- [42:53]
Eckhart Tolle
And I call that. I believe it's in the power of now. That's actually not your life. That's your life situation. That's your. Everybody has a life situation. That life situation has a past and a future, an imagined future, but a future. So that's your life ct. But what about your life? What do you mean, life? Well, life is this moment. Can you feel alive at this moment? Can you feel that you are conscious at this moment. Can you feel the essence of yourself as consciousness in this moment? And if you can feel the essence of yourself as consciousness in this moment, that's your life, and that is not a life that you have. Because if you say I have a life, then there's you and there's life. In the same way, if you say I have consciousness, then who. Who is the I? No, you are consciousness, and you don't have a life. You are life. It is an amazing realization that the essence of you is life and the life is the consciousness of you. Of course, you still remember those memories are still there. But you no longer go to the I'm looking for your identity. You honor the memories and all those things that make up the personality or the person, but your identity can now be arrived from a more vital and more real place, which is the consciousness of you in this moment. And that gives you a feeling of aliveness and joy in a deeper sense.
- [44:30]
Oprah Winfrey
And also not finding your identity in things and labels. Oh, yes, because all things will pass away.
- [44:41]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [44:42]
Oprah Winfrey
And all labels, you will eventually lose.
- [44:45]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes, yes. Not tweaking your identity in any mental concepts, because that's the egoic identity is actually an identity based on conceptualization of who or what you are. Mental concepts and. And even. Even possessions, of course. Many egos identify with possessions, for example. But even the possession itself, you experience it as. It's a mental concept. That's my such and such, whatever it is. My car, my house, this is my. They're all mental concepts. So it's transcending a conceptual sense of identity that's going beyond ego, because ego is always a conceptual sense of identity. So we are here to transcend that, still allowing ourselves to be a person, a personality in this world of form, in this world where doing is often required, in this world where time is important, in this dimension, the human dimension, without completely losing yourself, because we have the other foot, so to speak, in the transcendent realm. There's a beautiful parable in the New Testament when Jesus visits Mary and Martha, two sisters. And Martha is busy in the kitchen doing. Cooking the meal. Mary sitting up at the foot of Jesus and listening to Jesus or maybe tuning into his presence. And he goes. And then Martha gets angry in the kitchen, says Jesus, why don't you tell my sister to help me in the kitchen? Because there's so much to do here. Why is she just sitting there? And Jesus says, martha, Martha, you're worried about. Unconcerned about many things, but only one thing is Absolutely needful. And Mary has chosen that one thing. So what he's pointing to is the fundamental thing is the being dimension. The kingdom of heaven that is within you. That's the same thing. The kingdom of heaven.
- [46:46]
Oprah Winfrey
The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
- [46:47]
Eckhart Tolle
That is within you. The being dimension. This Martha represents the doing dimension. Mary represents the being dimension. Now, an ordinary person would then ask, well, how can I function like that? Because if Martha also goes to the baby, who is going to cook the meals? Now, the real answer to that is ultimately, Mary and Martha needs to become one. Mary and Martha are really. They need to merge back into their oneness so that the doing and the being exists in one human being. So Mary and Martha are meant to be one rather than separate.
- [47:33]
Oprah Winfrey
So, okay, a new Earth awakening to your life's purpose. If we focus more time on being than just doing, we focus more on our beingness as humans than on the human stuff, we will lead a life that is awakened to a greater sense of purpose. That's what you're saying.
- [47:55]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [47:55]
Oprah Winfrey
In a new Earth. Okay, final question. Are we gonna be okay? I mean, listen, the world is so divided. It's hard to say anything without somebody getting offended. It's hard to know with AI and with all the conspiracy theories and with everybody having their own, you know, YouTube channel and everybody saying whatever they want to say. It's hard to know what is true and what isn't true. And discernment is missing. We don't. We, you know, it's. It's hard to know. Are we going to be okay?
- [48:32]
Eckhart Tolle
Well, your main responsibility is to throw yourself. Are you going to be okay? Am I a better. Maybe a more direct question is, am I okay in this moment? Because your. Your state of consciousness is your responsibility. And I would say don't underestimate the importance of your state of consciousness for the world. Because you. You are an inseparable part of the. Your state of consciousness also.
- [49:05]
Oprah Winfrey
Because we are the world.
- [49:06]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [49:06]
Oprah Winfrey
We are the children.
- [49:08]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes.
- [49:09]
Oprah Winfrey
Eckhart says we still have quite a distance to go in our spiritual growth. What's critical is that we transcend our thinking. He says it's absolutely necessary for our survival. Eckhart believes that the human race is at a turning point. We must evolve beyond our current state of consciousness. When a significant number of people connect with their transcendent selves, an entirely new world will be born. Eckhart calls that a new Earth.
- [49:37]
Eckhart Tolle
We are going to be okay because you are going to be okay. And you are okay. Okay means conscious. Are we going to destroy ourselves? Probably not as a single.
- [49:52]
Oprah Winfrey
I thought you were going to say maybe. That's what you said when you came to dinner years ago. You said maybe, and it only lasts a couple hundred years. The Dark Ages. Yes, maybe.
- [50:04]
Eckhart Tolle
Well, it's. It's still a possibility, but it would only be a temporary setback. But temporary setbacks are actually part of the evolution of consciousness. I believe that the Earth itself has already experienced five mass extinctions of life over millions and millions of years. The last one was when the dinosaurs died out. Earth has already experienced five mass extinctions when 60, 70, in some cases, 80% of all life forms became extinct. And each time Earth recovered. Not only it took a few years, a few million years to recover each time, but each time Earth recovered. And every time it recovered, the life forms that it produced then were more complex than the previous life forms. So there was chaos leading to a higher order, then chaos coming in again, disrupting chaos, descent into chaos, and again leading into higher, complete, a fuller expression of manifestation of consciousness, the complexity of life.
- [51:22]
Oprah Winfrey
So the chaos and the confusion and the disorder that we're feeling offers an opportunity to move into something higher.
- [51:29]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes. And. And the chaos also is part of the suffering, actually has an awakening effect on humans to come back to human beings. Suffering is a new great awakener. I have experience in my own life, Many of you have experience in your life. And that works both on an individual basis and it also works on a collective. Collective basis, yeah, because sometimes the suffering comes to you as an individual. At other times, suffering arises and affects millions of people at the same time. That's collective suffering. And most of that suffering is actually produced by humans. They do it to themselves and to each other. And so it's natural disasters are only secondary. The worst suffering the inflicted is inflicted by humans on other humans. This is a dysfunction of the egoic mind playing itself out there. So, and again, if that happens, and I do know, I have a strong sense that we are moving into a period of turbulence. Not only in this country, many other places in the world too. We are moving. You can see kind of if you're on a boat on the river and you can look, oh, there's a turbulence coming, getting more rocky, maybe even a few waterfalls. And so we are collectively moving into a period of turbulence. And that's fine. That, that is your responsibility is to stay conscious, not to get drawn into the. The turbulence which ultimately.
- [53:07]
Oprah Winfrey
Into the current.
- [53:08]
Eckhart Tolle
Yes, yeah. The turbulence ultimately is an inner turbulence that manifests as outer turbulence. So not to Become part of that when you use device, social media and all those things. Stay present. Don't, don't.
- [53:23]
Oprah Winfrey
So more than ever, it's important for each of us to do the work of being. Eckhart says the coming changes for humanity are necessary for our evolution. Collectively, we are going through difficult times. We all recognize this because real change only occurs when society is pushed to the brink. Without adversity, there is no transformation, he says. When hardship strikes, we don't have to fear because that too, is a catalyst for spiritual growth. Eckhart teaches us, historically, humanity has gone through many regressions. They are intrinsic to the process of awakening because every setback is part of the journey.
- [54:08]
Eckhart Tolle
The best way to save the world is work on yourself. Stay conscious so that you are the solution. You're not part of the problem. Who said, be the change that you want to see in the world?
- [54:23]
Oprah Winfrey
Gandhi.
- [54:24]
Eckhart Tolle
Gandhi, yes. Be the change that you want to see in the world. That's ultimately that is your responsibility and it's a wonderful thing. So you can save the world. Starts here.
- [54:37]
Oprah Winfrey
Starts here.
- [54:38]
Eckhart Tolle
Yeah.
- [54:38]
Oprah Winfrey
Thank you, Eckhart Tolle. Thank you for the gift that is a New Earth. Thank you to our extraordinary partner, Starbucks, for supporting us here. I hope this episode actually inspires you to read A New Earth and talk about it with a friend, maybe over a cup of Starbucks. And thank you for listening and watching. We hope you all join our community and become a part of all of our conversations on the Oprah Podcast. Subscribe to the show on YouTube and follow us on Spotify and Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. Everybody. A New Earth. Thanks.