Mega-Bestselling Author Kathryn Stockett on Finding Her Voice Again After ‘The Help’

Summary

The Oprah Podcast

Episode: Mega-Bestselling Author Kathryn Stockett on Finding Her Voice Again After ‘The Help’
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Kathryn Stockett (“Kitty”), author
Date: June 2, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this rich and honest conversation, Oprah Winfrey welcomes Kathryn Stockett, author of the blockbuster novel The Help and the newly released The Calamity Club. Stockett opens up about the 17-year journey to her second book, the creative and emotional toll of public criticism, the challenges of writing authentic Southern stories, and her inspiration for the cast of bold, unbreakable women who defied 1930s Mississippi. The episode is full of laughter, candid admissions, and audience interaction as Stockett shares how she found her voice again, and why hope, humor, and the courage to write remain at the heart of her stories.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Facing Criticism and Fear (00:00-04:46; 06:16-09:15; 22:32-25:12)

• Impact of Criticism on Writing Process

  • Stockett recalls the criticism following The Help, especially concerns about a white woman telling Black women's stories.
  • “I get it. I understand the criticism. I understand that it put some people off that a white woman was writing a story that they perceived as a black woman's story to tell. But the truth is, it was the story that I needed to write to answer a lot of the questions that I had about my childhood...” (05:05)
  • The weight of expectation made it harder to write a second book:
    “When I sat down to write the second one…this time it was me in a room with all those readers and all those critics in that room kind of staring me down.” (06:16)
  • Stockett admits her initial attempts at The Calamity Club were stifled by fear, leading to a “vanilla, banana-flavored book” because she tried not to offend anyone (02:59).

• On Losing her Publishing Contract

  • Stockett lost her contract due to delays and unsatisfactory drafts. This became a turning point.
  • “When I got fired… I was able to sit down and write the whole book over from a very fresh perspective.” (08:46-09:15)

Writing and the Southern Women’s Experience (01:58-04:13; 14:40-18:47)

• Importance of Coming of Age Narratives

  • Oprah connects the book to her love for coming of age stories by Black women: “There’s something about a young girl’s voice coming of age that speaks to me so deeply.” (01:58)

• Truth in Southern Storytelling

  • Stockett: “You cannot write about Mississippi, and certainly not in the 1930s, without talking about race… and the absurdities of some of the rules that were in existence, especially in a place like Mississippi.” (03:36)

Humor and Resilience (07:11-08:16; 14:13)

• Stockett credits humor as essential to surviving hardships: “I have a sense of humor. And I’m gonna always search for the humor in some of the darkest moments.” (07:28)
• Oprah notes the new novel is “both poignant and laugh out loud for real funny” (14:13).

Character Development & Plot Structure (09:42-11:13; 14:40-15:03; 26:05-27:12)

• Child and Adult Dual Narrators
  • Stockett mixes an 11-year-old and a 24-year-old narrator for The Calamity Club:
    “A child can see through the bullshit… and they’re going to speak truths that sometimes an adult loses sight of.” (09:42)
• Inspiration for Characters
  • Meg, the child narrator, was inspired by her own daughter (14:40).
  • Adult characters came from Stockett’s own experience: “Birdie came from me. Just someone who speaks her mind and often gets in trouble for it.” (27:09-27:12)

The Central Role of Hope (12:08-12:18; 36:39-39:21)

• Resilience despite Abuse
  • Meg’s perseverance mirrors the character’s hope:
    • “Sometimes you can’t whip the hope out of somebody. Genuine hope is powerful.” (11:31)
  • Oprah and Stockett discuss hope as armor, referencing Emily Dickinson’s poem:
    • “Hope is a thing with feathers that perches in the soul…” (39:21)
  • “She doesn’t lose hope through the whole book. And hope is so powerful.” (36:39)

Community and Found Family (30:13-31:19)

• Found Family as Salvation
  • A core theme is the power of ‘chosen family’ among the novel’s outcast women:
    • Faye cites: “This slapped together band of misfits made me feel for the first time that I truly belonged. How the hell, I wonder, did I ever get so lucky?” (30:13)
  • Stockett: “So many of us are looking for that. And I think that’s a reasonable thing to ask for in life...” (30:38)

Audience Q&A and Reader Responses (15:45-21:16; 29:40-39:11)

• Southern Readers Resonance
  • Southern readers like Jamila connect personally with the novel’s setting and themes of women doing what they needed to survive: “It gives you that confidence in knowing…do what you have to do. And women have been doing it for years.” (21:28)
• Desire for a Sequel
  • Multiple readers clamor for a follow-up, eager to know what happens to the cast of women.
  • Stockett is hesitant: “I don’t want to put too hard of a finish on, you know, a story. And I like to leave...the reader wondering a little bit.” (19:43)

Crafting Historical Authenticity (25:22-28:54; 32:23-33:02)

• To create atmosphere, Stockett relied on research, interviews, and reading contemporaries like Eudora Welty.
• The overt prejudice of the era appears in the orphanage sign:
  • “Welcome to the Lafayette County Orphan Asylum for Girls, founded 1927. We do not accept colored, Indians, Jews, Mexicans, Oriental types…” (32:23)
  • Stockett: “I made a choice. I said I can try to stretch that point out for 600 pages, or on the very first page, I can stick it in a sign…” (33:02)

On Writing Process and Motivation (22:05-22:32; 26:13-27:03; 35:17-36:10)

• Stockett writes daily to maintain “frequency” with her characters.
  • “Just because you turn off the radio doesn't mean the music stopped playing.” (22:05)
• She believes writing is often about listening to the characters, not planning out every moment:
  • “The characters are driving the boat. They're driving the story. They're telling me what they want.” (38:28)

Women’s Rights and Social Issues (27:17-28:54; 31:19; 35:17-36:10)

• Stockett discusses the real history of eugenics in Mississippi, including forced sterilization for women deemed “promiscuous” or “feeble-minded”—a shocking revelation that shaped her understanding of female agency in the South.
• She hopes the book motivates readers “to protect women’s rights. We can’t afford to lose any more ground than we already have.” (31:19)
• Encouragement for women to take risks and not fear mistakes as a path to growth:
  • “It’s okay to make a mistake. That’s how we learn.” (36:10)

The Purpose of Art and Empathy (41:02-41:44)

• Stockett’s author’s note proclaims the necessity of empathy—imagining standing in another’s shoes—as both a human and creative duty:
  • “I think they should teach it in school that as a human being, it is so important to imagine what it feels like to have someone else’s problems. But…also…their successes. It's how…what gives us hope.” (41:02)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Perseverance:
  • “If you kick me when I'm down, I'm gonna come out of that a little bit wiser and a little bit braver.” – Kathryn Stockett (00:21, 08:46)
• On writing under pressure:
  • “Instead of just me sitting in a room with the page alone, this time it was me in a room with all those readers and all those critics in that room kind of staring me down.” – Stockett (06:16)
• On child narrators:
  • “A child can see through the bullshit.” – Stockett (09:42)
• On hope:
  • “She doesn’t lose hope through the whole book. And hope is so powerful.” – Stockett (36:39)
• On artistic duty and empathy:
  • “I believe it is my duty to imagine what it feels like to stand in another person's shoes.” – Stockett (41:02)

---

Important Timestamps for Segments

• Facing Criticism & Starting Over – 00:00–04:46, 06:16–09:15, 22:32–25:12
• Oprah’s love of coming-of-age stories / Southern women’s stories – 01:58–04:13
• On writing with humor – 07:11–08:16
• Character and structure – 09:42–11:13, 14:40–15:03, 26:05–27:12
• Hope and resilience – 12:08–12:18, 36:39–39:21
• Audience interaction (Jamila, Faye, Heather) – 15:45–21:16, 29:40–39:11
• Authenticity & historical research – 25:22–28:54, 32:23–33:02
• On women’s rights and mistakes – 27:17–28:54, 31:19, 35:17–36:10
• Empathy & storytelling – 41:02–41:44

---

Takeaways

• Kathryn Stockett’s journey to her second novel was shaped by criticism, self-doubt, and ultimately, a powerful need to reclaim her voice and write authentically, especially about Southern women’s lives.
• The Calamity Club celebrates hope, resilience, and the bonds of found family, while unflinchingly portraying the realities of 1930s Mississippi.
• Stockett uses humor and empathy to give dimension to her characters and story, encouraging women to act with conviction, even at risk of mistakes.
• Oprah and readers highlight how deeply the book resonates, especially with Southern women, sparking calls for a sequel and broad appreciation for its spirit and insight.

---

Closing Remark

This conversation is a compelling listen for fans of The Help, lovers of Southern fiction, and anyone interested in the challenges artists face in telling difficult truths—always with a core of humor and hope. As Oprah says, The Calamity Club is “one of the great reads…you’re gonna just fall in love with the characters like I did.”

Transcript

[Oprah Winfrey]

The criticism from the help did shape how you started to approach this story and write this story.

[Katherine Stockett]

After many false starts writing this story, I got fired. My publisher fired me because it had taken me so long.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because you were still operating out of fear.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yeah. There's something, I guess, grappy inside of me that, you know, if you kick me when I'm down, I'm gonna come out of that a little bit wiser and a little bit braver.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're still gonna write the book even though you don't have a contract.

[Katherine Stockett]

I don't give up easily. I gotta say. I'm really stubborn.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mm.

[Katherine Stockett]

So when I got fired, it kind of put a fire under my ass to prove them wrong.

[Oprah Winfrey]

This success of this book is gonna be the best revenge for the publisher that fired you. I can't even believe it.

[Katherine Stockett]

It was fun to write.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It was fun to write.

[Katherine Stockett]

It was. It was painful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hey, everybody. Thanks for stopping by the Oprah podcast. A warm welcome to you all. I know millions of you read the help, Katherine Stockett's 2009 debut novel, which became a global phenomenon selling over 15 million copies. Not many authors get to say that in their lifetime, not in three lifetimes. Back in 2011, the actress Octavia Spencer won an Oscar for her role in in the hit film the Help, based on the book. And now, Katherine Stockett's long awaited second novel, the Calamity Club, is finally here. And I know so many of you are going to devour this book, and it's already, I can tell you, runaway bestseller. I knew that that was gonna happen, and I'm thrilled to be sitting on my front porch with the author, Katherine Stockett. I know you prefer everyone call you Kitty, so I will do the same. Kitty, welcome. So glad to be with you.

[Katherine Stockett]

So glad to be here.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Let me just say I fell in love with this coming of age story. And this is what I realized when I read this. I thought all of my favorite books are coming of age stories, beginning with Toni Morrison's the Bluest Eye, of course, Celie in the Color Purple. Maya Angelou's story is a coming of age story. I know why the Caged Bird Sings and of course, To Kill a Mockingbird and Scout. There's something about a young girl's voice coming of age that speaks to me so deeply because I was a Southern girl coming of age. And obviously because you have done such an incredible job with this book that also spoke to you. This is a story of a group of bold, unbreakable women who overcome hardships to reclaim their lives. The love between them was just. I was crying one minute and laughing really out loud to myself the next, and then cheering. I think it's both heartbreaking and it's also hilarious at the same time. So you've said writing a second novel in the shadow of the Help was

[Katherine Stockett]

daunting, you know, living life and raising my. My daughter as a divorced woman. But I think it took me so long because I told myself I would be cautious with this next book. I would write something short and simple and not draw the kinds of criticism that some people had for the Help. And what I ended up with was a very vanilla banana flavored book version of this book that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Cause you were trying to write, not to offend anybody.

[Katherine Stockett]

That's right. And I was trying to write something that had no heart in it. What I finally had to admit myself after many years of failure was that you cannot write about Mississippi, and certainly not in the 1930s, without talking about race, without talking about discrimination and the absurdities of. Of some of the rules that were in existence, especially in a place like Mississippi.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. Where I was born.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yes, yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And was very happy to get out of. At the time that I did.

[Katherine Stockett]

I understand.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. And you understand. Yes. I always say I was born at the right time. I was born in. I'm going to start talking like Mississippi now. I was born in 1954 when Brown versus Board of Education. And the luckiest thing that ever happened to me was that I left Mississippi before I ever spent a day in a segregated school. Because had I grown up in a segregated school with teachers who were teaching me that, you know, I was less than, I would not have had the confidence or the agency or authority that I managed to have as a young girl moving to Milwaukee and never having to endure any of that. I think truly that made all the difference for me. And so what did you learn from the criticism of the Help and what did you understand as the crux of that criticism?

[Katherine Stockett]

I'm of two minds about the Help. I mean, on the one hand, I get it. I understand the criticism. I understand that it put some people off that a white woman was writing a story that they perceived as a black woman's story.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Story to tell.

[Katherine Stockett]

To tell. But the truth is, it was the story that I needed to write to answer a lot of the questions that I had about my childhood and about where I came from and about the things that I was taught. And I understand the criticism, but it was a story that just came out of me. And I don't know how to quiet the voices in my head. We write what we write because we have to.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did the criticism cause you to approach this book differently or make different decisions? You said in the beginning you were writing cautiously and that it turned out to be something flattened and it didn't feel like it was coming from a real place. So were you conscious of the criticism from the Help as you were writing Calamity?

[Katherine Stockett]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, when I wrote the Help, it was just me kind of pouring my heart out onto the page with no expectations of me. And I didn't think anybody was going to read it. And I had 60 rejections from agents to back that up. And when I sat down to write the second one, instead of just me sitting in a room with the page alone, this time it was me in a room with all those readers and all those critics in that room kind of staring me down.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. With expectations.

[Katherine Stockett]

With expectations.

[Oprah Winfrey]

With expectations. What are you gonna do now?

[Katherine Stockett]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. You've said I'll probably get in some trouble for this one. A fate I'm drawn to. Above all, the story embraces a woman's right to determine her own fate, which feels increasingly relevant these days. Why do you think you're drawn to getting in trouble?

[Katherine Stockett]

Oh, that's a great question. Who knows? I was just born this way. I feel like I've been in trouble most of my life for something. And I think it also has to do with the fact that

[Jamila]

I have

[Katherine Stockett]

a sense of humor. And I'm gonna always search for the humor in some of the darkest moments. And I don't see how people get through life without looking for the humor. And it's, you know, sometimes it works for me. Sometimes it kind of. I'm told I'm very hard to be married too. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Is that what your ex husband said?

[Katherine Stockett]

Uh huh.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. So tell me this. You were saying the criticism from the Help did shape how you started to approach this story and write the story. Were you finally able to let that go, to shake that off and just delve into the lives of these women you've now written about in Calamity?

[Katherine Stockett]

After many false starts writing this story, I got fired. My publisher fired me because it had taken me so long because I guess the material wasn't something they wanted. And that was the old version, that was the vanilla version.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Katherine Stockett]

And I really. I felt like I had let down myself. I felt like I'd let down my family.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because you were still operating out of fear.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And criticism.

[Katherine Stockett]

When I got fired, when I Lost my contract. I really felt like I had failed everybody. And there's something, I guess, scrappy inside of me that, you know, if you kick me when I'm down, I'm going to come out of that a little bit wiser and a little bit braver. And once that happened, I was able to sit down and write the whole book over from a very fresh perspective.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So I want to talk about the story. Without giving too much away, I have to say I've now given this book to so many of my friends who say, I wish it wouldn't end. I could not believe how many times I laughed. I could not believe these characters. Would you set up the characters in plot? Because as I was saying earlier, I am drawn to stories with coming of age southern girls. And Meg is a character like we've never seen before.

[Katherine Stockett]

Well, thank you. I really like writing in the voice of a child because a child can see through the bullshit. Can I say that?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, you can.

[Katherine Stockett]

And they're going to speak truths that sometimes an adult loses sight of. So because of the plot of this story, sort of the punchline, so to speak, you know what it is?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Katherine Stockett]

I also needed an adult narrator. So I was able to mix the two narrators, the 11 year old girl and, you know, the 24 year old kind of old maid, unmarried woman, also from Mississippi. And I felt like that way I could give two perspectives of one story.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so I love this passage about young Meg's life in the orphanage. On page 127 you write, Sometimes I feel old. Oh, this is what Meg is saying at 11 years old. Sometimes I feel old. Old in my skin and my bones. I remember when I turned nine at my mama's house, I could still feel a little eight left in me. But when I turned 10 in this place, there was not any nine left to spare. Now I'm afraid I might already have used up the breast of my 11 and most of my 12 too. So I just love that line. How do you come up with I could still feel a little eight left in me?

[Katherine Stockett]

I don't know. Who knows where, you know, the muse speaks to you. How the words come, I don't know. I wish I did.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Meg suffers abuse at the orphanage. And she describes it this way. It's like she's trying to whip the hope out of me. All the while she's whispering, dirty, filthy girl. After 15 licks, Ms. Garnett sits down in the chair, panting. She only quits because her arm gets tired. Were these scenes difficult for you? To write.

[Katherine Stockett]

Not difficult. But that line, I wanted the reader to see firsthand that sometimes you can't whip the hope out of somebody. Genuine hope is powerful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. On page 136, you write this about how Meg feels. All this noise inside us and we can't make a sound. I felt like so many young girls, boys, people feel this way. Those 11 little words speak volumes for so many people in similar situations. So you were saying that for her, but saying it also for so many people.

[Katherine Stockett]

So many people that have been silenced that don't have the chance to speak up. I guess it's why I write.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Katherine Stockett]

To have a chance to say my piece.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's just a quick tap of the subscribe button and that way you won't miss an episode in your queue. You don't have to pay anything. I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about, so thank you for watching and listening. Time for a quick break. When we come back, readers share their favorite moments and what had them LOL ing. That's next.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

This episode of the Oprah Podcast is sponsored in part by Bolan Branch. There's a moment, and if you've been running on empty for years, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Where sleep stops being a luxury and starts being the thing that holds everything else together. Between work, appointments and, honestly, just life, I was the last one on my own list. But as they say, you cannot pour from an empty cup. And it starts the night before. That's why I switched to Boll and branch. My old sheets pilling, slipping off and somehow always too warm. Now I feel the difference the second I get into bed. Softer than anything I've owned. Breathable. And honestly, they've gotten even softer after washing. I added the comforter and waffle blanket, too. And now my bed actually feels like somewhere I want to be. Bolen Branch is certified organic cotton, built for real rest and built to last. Upgr your sleep with Bolen Branch get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bolenbranch.com Oprah Pod with code Oprah Pod that's Boland Branch B O L L N branch.com Oprah Pod code Oprah Pod to unlock 15% off exclusion supply.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I'm talking with best selling author Katherine Stockett about her new novel, the Calamity Club.

[Katherine Stockett]

Ugh.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Is it a hoot? It's both poignant and. And laugh out loud for real funny. I know you're gonna love it. Great for this summer reading. Now back to the conversation. So you knew you had. So if you were having Meg, you know, you needed an adult to be a counterpart for what comes later on in the story that all that crazy calamity stuff that happens. But where did she actually come from? When did you first hear her voice?

[Katherine Stockett]

Oh, probably from my own daughter just hearing that childhood voice and saying things to me that, you know, you wonder where did you come from?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, where did that come from?

[Katherine Stockett]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And so how did she start to form and did she start to speak to you and did you write every day?

[Katherine Stockett]

I did. I wrote almost every day. Every day that I could. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So now you've been fired. You've lost your contract.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But you still are going to write the book even though you don't have a contract.

[Katherine Stockett]

I don't give up easily. I got to say. I'm really stubborn. So when I got fired, it kind of put a fire under my ass to prove them wrong or something. It took me a minute to get out of. You know, the success of the Garden

[Oprah Winfrey]

is gonna be the best revenge for the publisher that fired you. I can't even believe it.

[Katherine Stockett]

Well, yeah, it was fun to write.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It was fun to write.

[Katherine Stockett]

It was, it was painful and it was fun.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. All right. We gave a few lucky readers the copy of the Calamity Club and Jamila is joining us now from North Carolina. Jamila.

[Katherine Stockett]

Hi.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hello.

[Jamila]

So wonderful to meet you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oprah and Catherine Jamilla, I'm so excited to hear your take on this story.

[Jamila]

I love this story. I'm a Southern girl, too. I'm from Mobile, Alabama. And Kathryn, Mobile got a tiny shout out in the book.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jamila]

And just really reflecting on this time and places I've been and visited because I grew up on the Gulf coast, so all those areas, Biloxi, Jackson, New Orleans, Oxford, very familiar to me. And it was a wonderful kind of flashback into time for me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, I gave this to three of my Southern friends who were just over the moon. They couldn't even, I think there's, everybody's going to love the book, but I will Tell you that if you were a Southern woman, I think it resonates more deeply. I don't. I'm not sure why. Jamila, can you tell us why?

[Jamila]

I think it's because you know these stories. So my grandmother, she grew up cleaning white people's houses.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jamila]

And so some of these stories were very aligned. And Ophelia in the book kind of reminded me a little bit of my grandmother. So I think we have some. Some ways we relate to it. Very real.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, me, too. My grandmother grew up cleaning white people's houses in Mississippi, so I understand very much. Do you have a question for Kitty?

[Jamila]

I do. So tears welled up in my eyes at the end. I was so happy and excited for Charlie and Meg. But I must tell you, I honestly was like, what happens next with the rest of them? What happened with Birdie and Jack? And do they have a future together? What about Rory and his second stint in New Orleans? What about Garnett? Does she get retribution for what she did? What about Rory, like, again, like, is he. What is he? What happens when he comes out? There's so many characters, right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And were you worried? I was so worried that when Jack found out what Birdie was doing, he would then sort of think that she was some kind of soiled woman or something and wouldn't want to be around her if he found out that that's what she was doing.

[Jamila]

I was very worried about her. Were you worried? Especially after the gift he had given her, which we won't give away. Right. I was like, this is going to be a terrible revelation for him, but what a way he handled it, and so that people enjoy that just like we did.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And were you worried, too? Were you worried too, Jamila, that the sheriff was going to come every night?

[Jamila]

Yes. Yes. I just could not imagine how. Again, when they were going into town, too, for anything to mail a letter, to get food. I was worried like you. I was just hoping, can we make it to the next day? And I couldn't.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I couldn't believe they used their bedroom. I couldn't be used. They used their.

[Jamila]

I couldn't believe it either. And the whole, we just need to make a few more days. And then when it got to that last, I breathed a sigh of relief, like, we made it. Yeah, we made it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We can shed it. No, but what about when the man's coming down the stairs? The man's coming down the stairs and she realizes what's going on in the house?

[Jamila]

What about Mrs. Tartt? Oh, my gosh.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I was Worried? What about that?

[Jamila]

Oh, just really, it was so much

[Oprah Winfrey]

going on, I thought, Mrs. Tartt, Ms. Tartt's gonna have a heart attack when she realizes what's going on in this house.

[Jamila]

Exactly. But you see so much maturation in all the women, given the times.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Yes.

[Jamila]

And I think there was a way she came to appreciate what needed to be done. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely. So I know you have a question, but tell me, did you have a favorite character?

[Jamila]

I think, like you, everyone loves Meg. But I really did like Birdie. I identified with, you know, kind of her having to be a heroine in so many ways. You know, she never made it back home from what we saw. Right. Which is why I'd love to. To know what happens next. And so you kind of gave me the end to ask, are we thinking about a sequel? I really want to know what happens to some of these other characters, Katherine. Because while we know Charlie and Meg are probably, hopefully doing well together. What about Esmeralda? What about Garnett? What about Rory? What about Birdie and Jack?

[Katherine Stockett]

Let me just say, y' all are the best readers. Y' all are a writer's dream. I don't know if there's going to be a sequel. I kind of doubt it. I don't want to put too hard of a finish on, you know, a story. And I like to leave, you know, leave the reader wondering a little bit.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Kitty. But, Kitty. But, Kitty, you know, you can do what Elizabeth Strout has done with all.

[Katherine Stockett]

With, you know, she's such a great writer.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Olive Kidredge and everybody in that town ended up having, in some form or another, their own story and were in other books. I mean, there is no reason, Kitty, that you cannot continue this story with these characters moving on. I mean, literally, Birdie. What happens to Birdie and Jack and Bernie and Jack's family or all the other. Or any of the other women. Don't you agree? Don't you agree, Jamila?

[Jamila]

I completely agree. I mean, even some of the offshoot parts, like Lucille, what happens to her? What happens to the Heidelbergs? Like, you have so, so many places you can take this, Katherine. So my vote is for a sequel, but absolutely up to you. Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely. Up to you.

[Katherine Stockett]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks for your enthusiasm. Thank you. Okay. Don't you want to pass it on to everybody? Don't you want to say everybody?

[Jamila]

Absolutely. I think everyone should read this. And while it seems daunting. Right. With the number of pages, once you get going, it just moves. Katherine, you can't put it down. Or then you, like you said, Oprah, you want to put it down because you're almost scared what's going to happen next.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Jamila]

It's such a delight. So I hope everyone picks it up and gives it a read.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It actually, I think, left me with less judgment of women's choices to do what they need to do until they can do what they actually want to do. Did you feel that too, Jamila?

[Jamila]

I did that. You know, there's a character that has to leave her job because of men. Right. And men taking opportunities and juxtaposing that with what the ladies in the C club had to do. Right. I think it absolutely gives you that confidence in knowing, listen, everyone should read the story and take away from. Do what you have to do. And women have been doing it for years. And it's a reminder of how important it is to walk with conviction as women, to keep moving forward.

[Oprah Winfrey]

To keep moving forward. Jamila. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Spread the book, the story around. Right. The Calamity Club. And so are you one of those writers that has a schedule?

[Katherine Stockett]

If I don't write almost every day, I lose my momentum. I'm a big believer that the voices are always there. I have to clear my schedule. I have to clear my palette just to be able to hear them. And, you know, it's kind of like just because you turn off the radio doesn't mean the music stopped playing. So, yeah, if I lose my thread and I lose my frequency.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because you got so much criticism. Well, not so much, but you got criticism after the help was such a great success. So you get criticism for writing about black women because you were a white woman. Did you decide, okay, well, I'm only gonna write about white women?

[Katherine Stockett]

I really tried. Yeah, I really tried.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But you can't write about white women in the south without putting some black women in there.

[Katherine Stockett]

This is true. And especially in Mississippi.

[Oprah Winfrey]

In Mississippi.

[Katherine Stockett]

50. 50.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so how did. Were you worried about that bringing black characters in?

[Katherine Stockett]

I'm still worried.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Katherine Stockett]

I'm still worried. I'm a Southerner. I was born to worry. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And what are you worried about?

[Katherine Stockett]

Just the same things that happen with the help. You know, I am a white woman, and it's. It's, you know, it's a story about. About white people and black people and the relationships that they have. The help was. And a little bit in this one, too.

[Oprah Winfrey]

When that criticism came, were you hurt by it? Were you. You say you were shocked by it.

[Katherine Stockett]

I was surprised.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Surprised by it. Yeah.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did you feel that that criticism was valid?

[Katherine Stockett]

It was, you know, told from the perspective of. Only through the white eyes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The white gaze.

[Katherine Stockett]

The white gaze. The white gaze, exactly. And I'm a white woman. The screenplay was written by a white man, a good friend of mine. But at the same time, for a lot of people in America, it was a first step. It was the first introduction to the complexities of the relationships between blacks and whites in the South.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And do you feel differently now about who is allowed to tell what story?

[Katherine Stockett]

I don't try to overanalyze it very much. All I can say is that as a writer, I don't really have control over what I write. I write with my heart. The voices come out of me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Some people say you obviously have control over what you write, but you're saying you don't have control in terms of what your heart wants to speak to. That's what I hear you say. That's true.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yeah, that's true. And. And I've wondered sometimes if. If maybe the issue wasn't that I wrote the Help. It was that it became such a success. Maybe that was the problem. It's hard to think about telling an artist, no, no, that's not allowed. You can't create that. Yes, that's crossing a line.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yes. But again, because where will we be

[Oprah Winfrey]

if artists aren't allowed to express what's inside them?

[Katherine Stockett]

And some say that the role of art should make you a little uncomfortable. I see both sides.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, let's talk about the Calamity Club. I think readers will feel transported back to the south in the 1930s, from the slang to the language to the clothing. How did you craft that?

[Katherine Stockett]

I had to do a lot of research. I had to do interviews. I looked at a lot of Eudora Welty's photographs and read her stories. Had to really immerse myself in the time. And I think I got most of it right. I really wanted the reader to feel like the heir of the time and feel. Just feel like. Know what it felt like to be a woman in 1930 in Mississippi?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Where did all of these women come from? I mean, it's a cast of characters in this story. How did the story come to you, Kitty?

[Katherine Stockett]

All I can say is that my characters kind of tell me what they're gonna do. I go into writing a story knowing maybe about 10% about what's gonna happen.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So what did you know of Calamity Club? First of all, where'd that name come from?

[Katherine Stockett]

Well, Mark Twain. Uses it. And I thought it was just a great word of the time.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Calamity.

[Katherine Stockett]

Calamity. It's a calamity. And, you know, the C Club has a little special meaning to me as well. And, you know, if you read, you'll stumble across that. But I don't know where we get these ideas. All these voices in my head, do

[Oprah Winfrey]

they come one at a time? Do they come as a group?

[Katherine Stockett]

I don't know. They just show up and they tell me what they're gonna do. And sometimes they say that they're gonna do this. And I say, no, you're not. I don't wanna write that. And then what did they do? They go do it anyway.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so Meg came to you because of your daughter?

[Katherine Stockett]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Okay. Birdie came from where?

[Katherine Stockett]

I think Birdie came from me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Katherine Stockett]

Just someone who speaks her mind and often gets in trouble for it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. Charlie. Meg's mother is imprisoned, declared unfit, and, you know, sterilized against her will. In your research, you discovered in the 30s, so many women were often diagnosed as the word time, the word that you used in the book, feeble minded or promiscuous. And what else did you learn about women in that period? So much tough time to be a woman.

[Katherine Stockett]

I don't think there's been enough written about this subject. But in the 1920s and the 1930s, the eugenics movement was just starting to heat up. And the idea was that by sterilizing certain people, they could cleanse the population of what they called undesirables. And these were. These were people that, you know, might have epilepsy, that might have autism, people that they perceived as having a lower intelligence. They thought by sterilizing them, they could stop the procreation of these types of people. And the one that really stood out to me was that in Mississippi, a woman could be sterilized for being promiscuous. And that one stopped me in my tracks. I mean, I guess, you know, the idea was that if, you know, if you're promiscuous, well, then you must be stupid. And if you're stupid, then, you know, because it's hereditary. You're going to have all these children that then the state of Mississippi and so many states adopted. These laws would have to then take care of.

[Oprah Winfrey]

As you're saying that, I'm thinking, glad I got out of Mississippi. I don't want to. It's time for a break. Up next, Katherine. Kitty talks about the power of hope and learning from our mistakes. More on that when we come back.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students

[Oprah Winfrey]

get the best of both worlds.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Get the unreal college deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn [e-mail] studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks for joining me on the Oprah podcast. Nearly 17 years after her mega hit novel the Help, you're going to love, love, love reading Katherine Stockett's new book, the Calamity Club. Let's get back to our conversation. Faye is zooming in from Ohio and I hear this idea of Faye, did you laugh? How many times did you laugh out loud? Could you even count?

[Faye]

Too many to count.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what I say about this book. It will have you howling with yourself. Really? And I hear this idea of chosen family resonated for you.

[Faye]

Absolutely. There's a line in the book that completely stopped me when I read perfectly embodies the theme of found family. And it reads, this slapped together band of misfits made me feel for the first time that I truly belonged. How the hell, I wonder, did I ever get so lucky? Catherine, what inspired you to explore the theme of found family in this story? And what do you want readers to feel when they close this book?

[Katherine Stockett]

For somebody like Birdie, in the book, that's what she's looking for, a group of people where she feels like she fits in. And so many of us are looking for that. And I think that's a reasonable thing to ask for in life. And she finds it with, yeah, a group of misfits. And it surprises her. As for what I want the reader to take away, I want the reader to feel motivated to protect women's rights. We can't afford to lose any more ground than we already have.

[Faye]

Well, I love that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, you know what I loved in the very beginning of the story? When we go to the orphanage for the first time? Well, there's so many things I appreciated about this book. Well, first of all, it's set in the south, and I'm from the south and Meg is Southern and she's 11 and she's sparky and bright and all those things. And she's at the orphanage. And when you walk into the orphanage, one of the pivotal locations in the story, the sign out front reads, welcome to the Lafayette County Orphan Asylum for Girls, founded 1927. We do not accept colored Indians, Jews, Mexicans, Oriental types, twins, anyone who has or has had leprosy, consumption, missing limbs or hair, lips. No boys, no sick children or anyone of a retarded nature. No girls over the age of 12, no women in the family way. We do not deliver babies here. May the Lord bless you all. That sets quite the tone. Weren't you struck by that, Faye?

[Faye]

Absolutely. I remember bookmarking that part of it and going back to that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That tells you everything you want to know about the prejudices of the time. Of the prejudices of the time. So I wanna know, did you find signs like this for real in your research?

[Katherine Stockett]

Well, no, but I did know that these, you know, absurdities existed. And I, you know, I made a choice. I said I can try to stretch that point out for 600 pages, or on the very first page, I can stick it in a sign on the

[Oprah Winfrey]

wall to let you know and let

[Katherine Stockett]

the reader know what they're in for.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And I think that set the tone. We know what we're in for. We're gonna walk into a world of prejudices here. And I think Meg handled them all so, so, so beautifully. Thank you. Faye, how many people are you passing the book on to? I mean, I couldn't wait to pass the book on to as many people as I could.

[Faye]

So many. I'll be recommending this to everyone. It will be my top book of the year.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, I think so.

[Faye]

I'm already calling it now.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think so. Thank you so much. Thanks, Faye. Thank you, Heather. Also read the Calamity Club. Heather. Hi there.

[Katherine Stockett]

Hi. How are you?

[Jamila]

Hi. Hi.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hi. Hi. Did you read it all in one sitting, or did you keep coming back to it, laughing out loud?

[Heather]

I almost did. I was actually on a flight to San Francisco. So I read it the entire flight there, the entire flight back, and just consumed it as quickly as possible.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Did you laugh out loud?

[Heather]

It's definitely a book where you're laughing, you're crying, you're feeling such mixed emotions, you're feeling hopeful. It's beautiful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Beautiful.

[Heather]

And I. There was definitely a moment for me when I read the line, what if we fail? And the quick response was, what if we succeed? And I think that, for me, really resonated because it's really easy to focus on all the things that can go wrong rather than trusting in what will go right. And in my own life, I've had a lot of detours that have changed the course of the path that I thought my life would take. And Reading this book definitely felt like validation of, and I think that's really something that women, especially, we need to focus on to trust that journey. And through that, really learning how confident and brave and strong we really are. If we just trust ourselves rather than, you know, what we may see in front of us.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, they're all in that. They're all in that house trusting each other. That was some crazy. That was a calamitous time in that house. Do you have a question for Kitty?

[Heather]

I do. I do. Catherine, my question for you is many of these characters faced really big decisions and crossroads. What would your advice be for young women? And to encourage them to trust in themselves rather than waiting for the universe to give them this perfect sign that everything's going to be okay.

[Katherine Stockett]

You know, I think a lot of women are afraid to make a mistake. And it's a good question, because I think that that's one of the reasons why it took me 17 years to write a second book. We, you know, we tend to overcompensate. We. We overthink it when the truth is sometimes just making a decision is just as good as making the, you know, perfectly exact, right decision. Part of this is because, you know, women haven't had the rights that we do and the rights that we deserve for that long. And so we're afraid to make mistakes. We might lose it. And I just want to tell women that it's okay to make a mistake. That's how we learn.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's how we learn. Heather, thank you so much. Thank you.

[Katherine Stockett]

Thank you, Heather.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you for reading all of those pages. Aren't you glad you did, though? Aren't you glad you did? I just love this book.

[Heather]

So glad.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love this moment in the book where I won't tell you what has happened, but I just love this sentence where Meg says, nobody needs to remind me to count my blessings. I could count to 100 for what I've done in just the last two hours. And, oh, it is just all so spectacular. Yeah. What does this say about Meg?

[Katherine Stockett]

That she's still full of wonder and that she has hope. She doesn't lose hope through the whole book. And hope is so powerful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Was the idea to bring all of these women together who were sort of outcasts and the outsiders, and to show that together they could build something that was really powerful, even though that something would not be what most people would consider, you know, a great business?

[Katherine Stockett]

But it was a profitable one.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, it was a profitable one. Yes.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yes. We're all stronger when we come together.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I couldn't believe they were gonna do it. I started to get so nervous. You know, I hate for things for. I didn't want anything to go wrong with them. And I started. I started getting nervous. I actually put the book down. I thought, are they. Is she actually gonna go through with it? When they left the house and they went to look for her son and then there's Birdie left in that house, I thought, she's not gonna do it. She's not gonna do it. She's not gonna do it. And then she did.

[Katherine Stockett]

She did it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And every night I was waiting on the sheriff to come. Every night I thought the sheriff was coming.

[Katherine Stockett]

Oh, you're such a good reader.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I thought the sheriff was coming every night. And I thought, at first I thought the guy standing outside, he had to be the sheriff, but if he was a sheriff, he wouldn't have been able to just stand outside and watch. He would have brought everybody in and they would have arrested him. So I couldn't figure out who that guy was until the end. I still didn't know that that's who it was.

[Katherine Stockett]

Oh, thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I did not. Yeah. But every night I was so worried for them. Every night. We won't give away the plot about the way, but about halfway through the book, there is a jaw dropping secret reveal. So when you started writing, did you know what the key moments would be? Are they plot? Did you plot them out?

[Katherine Stockett]

No, no. You just let the characters are along for the ride.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You are along for the ride.

[Katherine Stockett]

That makes me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Corey, Writers say this.

[Katherine Stockett]

Oh, no, I really believe the characters are driving the boat. They're driving the story. They're telling me what they want.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Who did you love the most? Who are the characters you love the most?

[Katherine Stockett]

Oh, I like Flossy. I really enjoyed writing her because I felt like she was so vulnerable.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, she was.

[Katherine Stockett]

And a little pathetic and so honest. At least that's how I tried to write her. And I hope that's the way that she came across.

[Oprah Winfrey]

She did, yeah. So that was your favorite? Well, Meg was definitely my favorite, of course. And so you quote Emily Dickinson and her famous poem where Meg says, hope is a thing with feathers that purchases in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all. What do you want readers to actually, or did you want readers to know anything about hope when you were writing this book?

[Katherine Stockett]

Oh, it is so powerful. I. I wanted to give Meg kind of a theme song that she could hear in her head on the darkest nights in the orphanage. And so I put that poem in her armor to bring out when she needed it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's time for one last break, y'. All. When we return, Kathryn Stockett explains why she feels it's her duty as a writer and a human being to imagine what it's like to stand in another person's shoes. Come on back for that.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

This summer. Serve up the cookout classics craft mayo and dressing. Toss green salads with delicious ranch dressing or zesty Italian. Serve smooth, craveably creamy potato salads with mayo. We all know it's not a cookout without craft.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We're back with best selling author Kathryn Stockett. If you know somebody who loves to read a rip roaring tale and want a great book for this summer about spirited women, share this episode with them. Now back to the conversation. In the author's note, you say that as a writer and as a human being, I believe it is my duty to imagine. I think you say this in the beginning of the book. You say as a writer and as a human being, I believe it's my duty to imagine what it feels like to stand in another person's shoes, to stay sane. I put those imaginings on paper. The calamity club is the result. How did writing these women's stories keep you sane? It actually drove you a little insane, I'm sure.

[Katherine Stockett]

Well, as for the endnote, I have to say I think they should teach it in school that as a human being, it is so important to imagine what it feels like to have someone else's problems. But, you know, I think it's also vital to imagine what it feels like to have someone else's successes. It's how it's what gives us hope. There's just some voices inside of me that got to get out. And when I write books, they come out.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did you feel like I've been redeemed and I've been released? That song. Did you feel that this was a releasing when you completed these 800 pages?

[Katherine Stockett]

I was very relieved when I finished the book, yes. After so many years.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, we aren't gonna give away what happens to these characters at the end, but I will say I was in a puddle, really. Listen, did you always know you wanted to resolve the story this way a little bit?

[Katherine Stockett]

I wanted to write a slightly different ending. Maybe one that wasn't quite as it turns out. Yeah. But, hey, I'm okay with the ending. I've made peace with it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You made peace with it? Yeah.

[Katherine Stockett]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, thank you. Thank you. Kitty Stockett. Kathryn Stockett. She likes to be called Kitty. Thank you for this beautiful, breathtaking. It's just really.

[Katherine Stockett]

Thank you. It is an honor to be here. Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The Calamity Club is available now wherever books are sold. So, yes, it's a lot of pages, Gayle, It's a lot of pages. But you're gonna love everyone. So, Jamilla, thank you. Faye, Heather, thank you. Thanks for reading with us and for your thoughtful questions. We'll see you next week. Go well, everybody. I hope you all read the Calamity Club. I'm telling you, it is one of the great reads and particularly for summer. I think you're gonna just fall in love with the characters like I did. So good for the summer to share with your friends. And you can buy it instantly now. Right now, I just love the way this happens. If you scan the QR code on your screen, you can get the book. Happy reading. Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's just a quick tap of the subscribe button and that way you won't miss an episode in your queue. You don't have to pay anything. I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about, so thank you for watching and listening.