Oprah and Iyanla: New Year Refresh on Your “Spiritual Hygiene”

Summary

Podcast Summary: Oprah and Iyanla – New Year Refresh on Your “Spiritual Hygiene”

The Oprah Podcast
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Iyanla Vanzant
Date: December 30, 2025
Location: Live from New York City

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and candid episode, Oprah Winfrey sits down with renowned spiritual teacher and author Iyanla Vanzant to discuss her latest book, "Spiritual Hygiene: A Practical Path for Clean Living, for Inner Authority, and for Divine Freedom." Through personal reflection, spirited audience questions, and unfiltered truth-telling, they explore what it means to develop spiritual practices that clear inner wounds, break generational cycles, and foster authentic living. Topics include healing from grief, confronting family pain, boundary-setting, and daily habits for “spiritual hygiene” in a challenging world.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Concept of Spiritual Hygiene

• Spiritual Hygiene Defined: Iyanla explains that spiritual hygiene is akin to daily routines like brushing teeth—maintaining “cleanliness” in mind, heart, and spirit (03:42).
  • Quote: “What do you do every day to heal your soul?” — Oprah (03:27)
• Origins: Iyanla began checking in with her mind, heart, and body to “stay clean,” describing moments when she recognized emotional and spiritual “dirtiness” (03:42–04:15).
• Key Practice: Telling oneself the truth and addressing internal rather than external challenges.

2. Personal Stories of Pain, Loss, and Healing

• Iyanla’s Tragic Losses: She opens up about losing two daughters—Jamia, who had good spiritual hygiene, and Nysa, who struggled and died from complications of untreated diabetes (04:15–07:18).
  • Quote: “It gets you clear… the key ingredient of spiritual hygiene is truth. You tell the truth.” — Iyanla (05:39)
• Learning from Grief: Iyanla shares that the grief of losing two children taught her the deep capacity for love and the power of letting go of attachment to the physical (11:03–11:41).
  • Quote: “Grief is such a powerful teacher. ... It teaches us how the heart can contract and expand at the same time.” — Iyanla (11:03)
• Motherhood Reflections: She candidly addresses her regrets as a young mother and the failure to nurture her children emotionally due to her own trauma (14:08).

3. Breaking Family and Inner Patterns

• Cycles of Pain: Iyanla stresses the importance of not passing unhealed wounds to future generations and recognizing how one’s actions impact children (13:23–14:08).
  • Quote: “All of my infectious diseases of my mind and heart, I visited upon my children.” — Iyanla (13:09)
• Truth and Accountability: Both Oprah and Iyanla discuss societal aversion to admitting mistakes.
  • Quote: “You can be wrong and it’s a mistake, but we live in a law and punishment society.” — Iyanla (15:47)

4. Practical Spiritual Hygiene: Truth and Boundaries

• Role of Truth: Dishonesty is identified as a major toxin in families and society. Practicing truthfulness with oneself and others is core to clean living and "divine freedom" (16:48–17:46).
• Divine Freedom: Iyanla describes it as the God-given right to be authentic, but notes we often perform for acceptance instead (17:54–18:54).
  • Quote: “Everything that we need to be a unique and a divine expression of God, and we walk around selling and camouflaging what we think are faults.” — Iyanla (18:54)
• Energy Awareness: She explains that everything is energy—frequencies, invisible forces—which shapes both our visible actions and our inner experiences (19:04–20:05).

5. Audience Q&A: Applying Spiritual Hygiene

a) Kamri: Grieving an Absent Father (21:51–31:36)

• Issue: Kamri describes the pain of her father’s absence, watching him be present with other children, and her journey as an advocate who thought healing others would heal herself.
• Advice:
  • Get clear about whether it’s loss or disappointment.
  • Let the inner child (“little girl”) grieve unmet needs; don’t dismiss or suppress those feelings.
  • Give yourself what you wish you’d received, and embrace forgiveness for both self and parent.
    • Quote: “Ask her—the three-year-old, the five-year-old, the seven-year-old—what did you want from Daddy? And then you give it to her.” — Iyanla (25:06)
  • Be careful not to project unresolved needs onto one’s own children.
    • Quote: “Just be careful trying to give them what you didn’t have or what you wanted. Make sure that’s what they need.” — Iyanla (30:44)

b) Matthew: Unlearning Family Lies & Rewriting the Story (34:24–41:22)

• Issue: Raised amid parental addiction, secrecy, and emotional detachment; struggles with how to feel and express emotions in a numbing family.
• Advice:
  • See parents as human—discuss the impact without making them “wrong.”
  • Reframe the personal narrative to avoid victimhood: “They made the best decisions they could make… those decisions had a negative impact on you. That’s the truth.”
  • Focus on the lesson and mission of one’s own soul.
    • Quote: “You are not the victim in the story. Because so many people have made themselves the victim of what they didn’t get and then miss the power of what they did get.” — Oprah (39:35)

c) Jenna: Guilt Over a Mentally Ill, Homeless Mother (44:47–57:13)

• Issue: Long-term emotional and financial enmeshment rescuing her mother, to the point of risking her own well-being; struggles with grief and guilt after setting boundaries.
• Advice:
  • Letting a loved one hit rock bottom may be their soul’s path.
    • Quote: “God made the rock. So if she down in rock bottom, that’s her business and God’s business.” — Iyanla (48:36)
  • Setting a “sacred no” is an act of self-care and good spiritual hygiene.
    • Quote: “Helping somebody out of obligation is not helping them at all… it’s self-abuse.” — Iyanla (48:46)
  • Forgive oneself for no longer being willing to participate in someone else’s self-destruction.
    • Quote: “Forgive yourself for no longer being willing to participate in her self-destructive choice.” — Iyanla (54:21)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Highlight | |-----------|--------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:05 | Iyanla | “What is?” — challenging listeners to face uncomfortable truths. | | 05:39 | Iyanla | “The key ingredient of spiritual hygiene is truth. You tell the truth.” | | 11:03 | Iyanla | “Grief is such a powerful teacher…The heart can contract and expand at the same time.” | | 14:08 | Iyanla | “I failed my children…because I denied my pain. I ignored my pain. I covered it.” | | 17:46 | Iyanla | “Truth is a key element of clean living and divine freedom.” | | 18:54 | Iyanla | “Everything that we need to be a unique and a divine expression of God…” | | 25:06 | Iyanla | “Let the little girl grieve. … Ask her … what did you want from Daddy? … You give it to her.” | | 39:35 | Oprah | “You are not the victim in the story… don’t miss the power of what you did get.” | | 48:36 | Iyanla | “God made the rock. So if she down in rock bottom, that’s her business and God’s business.” | | 54:21 | Iyanla | “Forgive yourself for no longer being willing to participate in her self-destructive choice.” | | 55:44 | Iyanla | “If you don’t enjoy your life, your mother’s misery will. So you got to enjoy your life.” |

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Practical Takeaways for Spiritual Hygiene

• Breathe deeply and consciously. (31:55–32:30)
  • “Number one, breathe… Let your whole body participate in your breath.” — Iyanla
• Cultivate stillness and be honest with yourself.
• Tell the truth to yourself and others—even when uncomfortable.
• Set and honor sacred boundaries (“sacred no” and “holy yes”).
• Let yourself and your inner child grieve unmet needs.
• Forgive yourself for what you cannot control or change, and recognize that each person has their own soul contract.
• Do not perform your way through pain; focus on authenticity over appearances.
• Reframe personal narratives to receive empowerment instead of victimhood.

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Conclusion

Through a blend of personal anecdotes and wisdom, Iyanla and Oprah offer a roadmap to spiritual “cleanliness” that begins with truth, daily practice, and self-forgiveness. Audience questions reveal the universal struggle with boundaries and breaking generational cycles—and the transformative potential of spiritual hygiene. Iyanla’s advice echoes throughout: “Only you can learn your lessons in your life.” Above all, this episode urges listeners to focus inward, maintain honest self-inquiry, and claim the “divine freedom” that comes from clean living.

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Transcript

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Somebody else can't learn their lessons in your life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Only you can learn more. Somebody else can't learn their lessons in your life.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And if you don't enjoy your life, your mother's misery will. So you got to enjoy your life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Church is over. Welcome to the Oprah Podcast. Hello to this beautiful audience of our listeners in New York City. I just love saying New York, New York. It's great to be here even on a rainy day. So I want to ask the audience just a few questions. Am I seeing clearly? Ask yourself that. Am I seeing clearly or through a lens of pain? Am I trying to control, fix, or rescue anybody other than myself? Am I present enough to sit with?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

What is?

[Oprah Winfrey]

All of these questions are in Iyanla Van Zant's new book that she asks us to ask of ourselves. So what's missing? What my guest calls divine freedom is what's missing from so many of our lives. She says we each have a sacred responsibility and. And it's our job to find out what is that responsibility. She is one of the most powerful spiritual teachers, healers, fixers in the world. Iyanla Van Zandt has written a book called Spiritual A Practical Path for Clean Living, for Inner Authority and for divine Freedom. What even is divine freedom? Whatever it is, I want some of that. Please help me welcome Iyanla Van Zak.

[Kamri]

Woo.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Look at her. Been a while.

[Oprah Winfrey]

A long time.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Been a while.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's been six years since we sat together, since we've seen it.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

We talk and text and all that. God bless a text.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, God bless a text.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

But my Lord, I haven't seen you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, but you looking good.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And are you not text 1 to no one.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Iyanla Van Zant is a world renowned spiritual teacher, bestselling author, and the fixer who suffers no fools.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

You may have lost your femininity, but you found your bitch in that moment, right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. I first met Iyanla on the Oprah Winfrey Show.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

If you don't have a test, you won't have a testimony. And so when you have a challenge, you are an adult.

[Oprah Winfrey]

She hosted eight seasons of the hit show Iyanla Fix My Life on Own.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

The network, go get you a bob, a battery operated boyfriend.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And this January 17th, make sure to check out Iyanla's Return to Own. I've come to unpack with her powerful new series, the Inside Fix. I want to share how you begin spiritual hygiene because it's such a helpful analogy, I think you say you brush your teeth and you wash your body every Single day we do. Right. You see all these people are all brushed up in here to prevent diseases and stay clean. But what do you do every day to heal your soul? I love the term spiritual hygiene. Yes. How did it come to you?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Mm, well, really, it's something that I had done, just checking in with my mind, my heart, my body, every single day. And to stay clean.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And I knew when I was dirty, when I was feeling dirty, thinking dirty, behaving in dirty ways, we won't have that conversation. But I don't know, maybe 10, 15 years ago, I said, okay, let me do my hygiene. I gotta be on top of my hygiene.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Born into poverty, Iyanla Benzant, whose birth name was Rhonda, says her mother was an alcoholic and died when she was three years old. Iyanla was raised by her grandmother, who Iyanla says neglected and physically abused her. At age nine, Iyanla was raped by an uncle. She became a mother at 16, and by the age of 21, Iyanla was raising three children. In 2003, Iyanla van Zandt lost her eldest daughter, Jamia. She died from a rare type of colon cancer at the age of 31. And in 2023, Iyanla's daughter Nisa passed away. She was 48 years old. Iyanla also has a son, Damon.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Jamia had good spiritual hygiene. Nysa, on the other hand, did not. And I began to say, you've got to clean that up. You've got to clean that up. And so it kind of stuck.

[Oprah Winfrey]

One of the things you say in the book, I mean it really, when I read the sentence where you say, I can't bury another child, I cannot do it. But Iyanla has lost another child. She lost her daughter Nisa two years ago.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it's the interesting thing you say in the book that you weren't prepared for the first loss to Jumia. And then when Nysa became ill and you realized that she was going tell.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Us about that, because I had good spiritual hygiene. One thing spiritual hygiene does is it gets you clear.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

You don't see through distortion or illusion. And the key ingredient of spiritual hygiene is truth. You tell the truth. So just based on what I was seeing and sensing and feeling, I said, oh, my God, she's not gonna make it through this. I knew it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What was she going through?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Diabetes. But she was a non compliant diabetic. She was in total denial. So she wouldn't accept the fact. And I taught her that. Oprah, I talk about that in the Book.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I taught her that anything less than perfection and performance cannot be tolerated. And so she wouldn't acknowledge, she wouldn't care for, she wouldn't do what was required to manage and to embrace the diabetes. So she, she was non compliant. And so many people are right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know. I had a mother who shot insulin every day. And every now and then you'd see her sitting in the kitchen eating coconut cake.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you're like. And she, you know, in our culture, a lot of people just think it's a little sugar. Oh, I got a little sugar.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Little sugar. A little sugar.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Gotta handle my sugar. Yes.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I wanna tell you this, not to freak you out or gross you out. It took me a minute to process. Nisa died at home on the sofa by herself with a half gallon of fruit punch in her hand and a container of honey roasted peanuts right by her side.

[Oprah Winfrey]

As a diabetic. As a diabetic, wow, that must have been really challenging. Hard for you as the fixer. You've done hundreds of shows, you've helped thousands of people. And in your own family, your daughter, your baby girl, you weren't able to get her to see clear enough to do it for herself on social media.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

People were saying, oh, she lost another kid. She trying to fix everybody. You know, that thing is so mean.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And oh, yeah, I told you she was a fraud. I told you she was a fake. And I saw that just accidentally and I said, oh, I see. They think they're going to stop me. But, you know, one of the things that I talk about in spiritual hygiene is our greatest challenges come not from the outside, from the inside.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Inside you, inside your family, inside your marriage, inside your circle of closest people. Those are the things that you have to address. Like, I didn't go to niece's funeral. I didn't go to my daughter's funeral. I didn't go because her son was emotionally unsafe for me. He was just out of his mind in his grief and in his whatever. So I did not go to my daughter's funeral and ask me if I care what people think about it. Cause had he lost his mind and jumped on me, I would have been beat up and they just would have been shocked. So you gotta be clean on the inside so that you can address those things when they come from the outside.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you were ready to address it?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I was really ready to. Like I said, the spiritual teacher in me knew she was going to die. I knew it. I could see it. The mother was hysterical. Okay. And she's Running around with her hair on fire, trying to do every. Here. Rub this crystal on your head. Lick this stone. What can I do? Praying all day. Yeah, but the spiritual teacher knew. This is her choice. This is her lesson. Mind your business and just be present for her. That's all you can do. Because I would much rather have been present for her than have her push me away. Because I'm telling her, read this book. Take this thing, do this. I did that for a while and it just didn't work. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so to bury yet another child, did that nearly break you? Or were you more prepared?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I knew how to do it this time. I know that sounds crazy. When Jamia left her body and I had to bury my first child. My best friend. She was my best friend.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But that was many years ago.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Many years ago? Doesn't seem like it. As a mom, it seems like last Tuesday. But it's been 21 years now. So spiritually, she was complete. She did what she came to do. So when she passed, so much I didn't know. When Nisa passed, I remembered. I know how to do this. You don't have to do everything by yourself. Iyama. Call somebody. You don't have to figure everything out. Get some help. I knew how to do it. And so, very often, one of the reasons we have spiritual hygiene, poor spiritual hygiene, is because we meet every challenge as though it's new. You've been left before. You've been disappointed before. What did you learn that time that you can use now? We meet every challenge with our hair on fire. What is that? Listen, this is your third breakup act like you done broke up before. What did you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What has the grief and loss of two daughters taught you?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

How much I can love? Grief is such a powerful teacher. Grief is such a powerful healer. Grief is such a powerful lesson. It teaches us how the heart can contract and expand at the same time. Contract because of the hurt and the ache, but expand. Because you have to learn how to love the unseen. I still love my babies. Those are still my babies. I loved them deeply. And now grief takes you out of the attachment to physical. I'm not attached to their physical anymore. Now I'm loving them.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Heart to heart.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Soul to soul. Grief taught me how to do that. Because I couldn't grieve forever, I had to come out of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What impact did this have on Damon, Your son?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Well, you know what? It's funny about Damon. Damon. I had Damon when I was 16. We grew up together. So almost everything I learned, as I learned it. I was teaching it to him. We grew up attached at the hip, and I've always told Damon the truth. And when Damon had his challenges in life, I'll never forget the day he called me and he went off. I mean, I was just the wretched of the earth. Child, please. He was. You did this and you didn't do that, and you did this. And everything he said was true. But as a mom, I had to hear it with spiritual ears. And when he finished lamb blasting me, I said, tell me how I can do it different now.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I didn't defend, I didn't explain. I had had a little spiritual hygiene by then. I said, tell me how I can do it different now. Because I couldn't go back and clean up what I did as a frightened, guilty, crazy, 16, 17 year old. And you know what he said? He said, stop being my mother and just be my friend. And that's what I did.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Now.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Now he's older, I'm older. Now I can be his mother again. Cause I got good sense. But back then, I was healing myself. You know, all of my infectious diseases of my mind and heart. I visited upon my children. I have to tell the truth about that. And Nyssa struggled the most because she was my greatest mirror.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And this is really why you've written the book, is because you want to stop other people in their tracks of doing that and passing it on to their children.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

There's a chapter in there, Spiritual Hygiene for Parenting.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Because I. Her lesson was different and her choices were different. But I can see the contributions that I made to her dysfunction and destruction. Her choice was to hold onto it. Cause she had choices. She could have healed it. She didn't. That was her choice.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you were able to let that go.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I had to.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You write in the book so candidly, I mean, wow. You open up your soul and you say, I failed my children.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I failed my children. I think I've said that publicly many times that I was a horrible mother. Horrible. I was a great father. I was a horrible mother. Mothers nourish, nurture, teach, mothers affirm. I didn't do that. I protected. I provided. That's what dads do. I was a horrible mother. When I recognize I failed my children. From the perspective of spiritual hygiene, was it because I denied my pain? I ignored my pain. I covered it. I called it something else. I put myself in unclean, unhealthy, unproductive situation, dragging my kids along with me, and expected them to stay quiet about it. I lived for nine years in an abusive marriage and never talked to my children about it. Expected them to see their mother with a black eye, a busted lip, cooking franks and beans. So I taught them to lie. I taught them to deny. I taught them to avoid. I mirrored it for them, and then that's what they did. That's a failure on my part as a mother.

[Oprah Winfrey]

As I was reading your book, I thought so many families could be healed if parents would just admit the truth to their children. Because they can't say, I made a mistake, I was wrong.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

We're taught that it's bad to be wrong, that you're bad if you're wrong. Oh, and just in general, you're bad if you're wrong. I mean, if you make a mistake on your taxes, the IRS penalizes you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

You know, if you make a mistake in doing anything.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You know, I think that's such an interesting distinction, don't you? All the difference between being wrong and being bad. Yes.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

That you can be wrong and it's a mistake.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's a mistake.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yeah. But we live in a law and punishment society where you're afraid. This society is set up where you're wrong if you tell the truth. Really, if you tell the truth, you're wrong. And if you're wrong, you're bad. So people don't want to tell the truth. I had to tell the truth because looking at my children and all I thought I had done for them, and looking at what I was looking at, you know, what the hell happened? You know, you boo, you happen. Don't look at the fruit, look at the tree.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But all of those failures, this is what I love about what you write in Spiritual Hygiene. All of those failures have brought you to a more clear understanding of who you are now. And you have used those failures. You've used that pain to create power and spiritual awakening in your own life.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And hopefully in the world.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Because one of the things that I think is killing this country, the world in general, is dishonesty. And people will look at somebody telling them a lie and grin, what the hell. Yes, that's a lie. Now, you don't have to say it like that. That's not spiritually, you know, you have to find a better way to say that. But the truth is just so contaminated today. And that's poor spiritual hygiene. We don't tell ourselves, that dress is too short. Go somewhere and sit down, take that thing off. We won't even say that to ourselves.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And then we lie to each other. This whole thing, catfish. The catfish thing, where the people you be having a rela. And the people. We're not really real bad. Spiritual hygiene bad.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, Belle.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

So people won't tell the truth. And truth is a key element of clean living and divine freedom.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. Divine freedom. What does it. When I was describing that and I was asking the audience to think about the questions that you ask in the book. What does divine freedom?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

The freedom God gave us. The freedom to be who we are. We are programmed and conditioned to perform. There's probably people sitting in this room right now. I ain't talking about. I'm not gonna look at anybody in particular.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Who got all kind of wahala and conglomeration going on in their life. But they'll go out in the street.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And somebody will say, how you doing? Fine. I'm good. No, you're not. Now, you don't have to spill your guts out to everybody you see, but just. We've lost that level of connection and trust where you can say to somebody, I need help. And you don't stay that long enough. That's why suicide rates are up. That's why things like diabetes is up. Lack of joy. We taught to perform. God gave us everything that we need to be a unique and a divine expression of God. And we walk around selling and camouflaging what we think are faults.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you write that practicing spiritual hygiene has brought you to another level, actually, of consciousness, where everything is energy.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Everything.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And understanding that. Can you explain what that means?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Everything is energy because energy, frequency, vibration. Energy is the essence of life. It's the movement of life. It's the flow of life that manifests both physically and visibly, but intangibly and invisibly. So we perform at the physical level. Make yourself look nice, do this. Do, do, do, do, do. But it's at the invisible level, the being level, where everything is born. Somebody gets pregnant. They don't get pregnant on the outside. They get pregnant on the inside. And that energy is in there. That life force is in there, and the egg and the sperm. And they're doing all their little wonderfulness to make the human being. That's all invisible energy. It's there. We are so addicted to the physicality, the third dimension, if I can see it. So what happens is we get to doing. We do, do, do, do, do, and forget about our being. Our being is what sets us free.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks for listening. Time for a quick break. Next, a woman who wants to ask Iyanla how to heal from an absent father.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Hi, thank you for listening and welcome back. Our audience has questions for Iyanla about how a spiritual cleanse can lift the heaviness and pain they've been carrying. Well, this is what's so interesting, how you've been able to use everything that's happened in your life to become, as I was introducing you, one of the great spiritual teacher healers in the world. And I know so many people are here because they want to talk to you and Kamri, Kamri, I have a question. Right?

[Kamri]

Yes. So I built a life becoming an author, a speaker, an advocate for people who are often hidden in plain sight. And I thought healing others would be a way of healing myself. So I've watched you guys for a long time talk about daddyless daughters. And I grew up without my father and a part of me thought I was healing that part by, you know, healing other people. Until I realized that once I got older he started having one child and two child and three child and four child that he was being a father to. Yes. And he had never been present for me. So that brought a new level of grief that I thought that I had healed. Like that little girl who was without her daddy. I thought that part was healed until I saw you're present for all these other little babies you got running around. So how do you.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

How do I. How.

[Kamri]

I'm sorry. How do I. I know you spoke about the grief that you have when you lose someone physically, but when he's 10 minutes up the street, how do I begin to grieve the loss of someone that is here physically?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Well, is it a loss or is it a disappointment? You gotta get clear about what it is that you're trying to heal. You haven't lost him. He's there. But you're disappointed in the way he shows up, which means you have an expectation that Daddy would do this, that or the other. Mmm. Would that be accurate?

[Kamri]

Yes, because he was never present. So, yeah. It's a disappointment that you were never there. Absolutely.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

How do you know that's not a good thing?

[Kamri]

I'm a parent, and I know that I can't go a day without my babies.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

But that's your experience.

[Kamri]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

How do you know that? For your soul, your purpose, your mission in life. Perhaps who he was would not have been healthy for you. See, I believe everything is just as it needs to be. God doesn't kick us out and then abandon us. So there's a reason, a purpose, that your daddy would be around the corner and seeing you see him every day. And maybe that purpose wouldn't have been served with him being in your life. My mother was an alcoholic who died when I was three. And so the good news is I didn't know. They forgot to tell me she was dead. So they told me this woman was my mother. She wasn't. That's a whole nother story. But I often wonder, did I benefit, not growing up as a child of an alcoholic? Can you hear me?

[Kamri]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I don't know what that would've looked like.

[Kamri]

So how can I tell myself that when, of course, we've all heard these stories, and I heard you guys talk about it many of times when those daddyless daughters grow up, and then they seek for love and validation in all the wrong places. And I guess that's why it was so hard for me to tell myself that. Because I did go through that process of seeking for love and validation and expectation from the love that I did not get from my father.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Do you know this man right here?

[Kamri]

Is it obvious?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Huh?

[Kamri]

I said it's obvious.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

He's getting ready to eat you with his eyes. I'm a little. I was a little nervous for a moment. That much love, you ain't missing nothing. But anyway, I would say Let the little girl grieve. Because, you know, daddies make us princesses. Not you, grown woman. That little one. Yeah, let her grieve. Ask her the three year old, the five year old, the seven year old, what did you want from Daddy? And then you give it to her. Yeah, Let her grieve. Let her weep, let her cry. Let her feel it. Let her heart break. Because that's what's gonna teach you how to love him from a distance and forgive him. And forgive yourself for thinking you shouldn't miss your daddy. You've been so busy trying to be strong until you're ignoring her pain. It's her pain. It's not really yours. Cause you're a big girl. You're all grown up, and you got this hunk of. Hunk of burning love over here.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hunk of burning love.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Thank you. So. But let her grieve. And also let her know that she can still love her daddy even though he chooses not to be in relationship with her.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How's she gonna do that? How?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Just let her feel the love. Not comparison, not jealousy, but let her heart open in love and not focus on the ache.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Can I share something? Can I share something?

[Jenna]

Mm.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So I have all of these wonderful daughter girls, I call them, who had come to the United States from South Africa. And most of them had grown up without their fathers. Almost every single person had some form of trauma. Because my school is for underserved poor girls who come from traumatic backgrounds. And in the beginning, it was such a mess going on all the time that I called Iyanla, y', all, when we had 20 girls crying and screaming and yelling, crying about their daddies. And I remember there was one girl. Cause I never had my daddy to walk me to school. And you were like, but you're 19. You can walk your own self to school now. Now, now. You can walk your own self to school now. And these girls are now coming here for college. And what you shared with those girls was that you need to let, as you were just saying to Kamri, let your young self mourn the father or grieve the father. But your older self is already grown and taking care of yourself. So you need to make the distinction between the two.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That it needs to be acknowledged. But what you're looking at and seeing him doing with his other kids all over the place, you don't actually need that. Now, you have been able to take care of yourself. Take care of yourself.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Absolutely. But the good spiritual hygiene is acknowledging this hurts. And I have the right to Grieve it. And I have the right to live beyond it. Spiritual hygiene as a daily devotion to taking care of your mind, your heart and your spirit will clean up any residue for you. And it'll bring that little one who's grieving into alignment so that she's not running your life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, yeah. How do you fix the daddy hole? I mean, it's not one answer.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I mean, there's so many people have a daddy hole. They do. But again, it's not the grown person. It's not you today that's grieving.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You don't.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

It's the five year old. It's the seven year old. Even when she uses your eyes, she's not counting how. You're not counting how many children Daddy has you as an adult, you may say, boy, you need to stop it, but she's like, our kids are the same age for them, but he didn't.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do it for me.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yeah, I want my daddy, too. That's her. That's not you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's your younger self.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yeah. So. But what you want. I know, baby, I know. But what is it that you wanted? Daddy to take you to the park. Let's go to the park. I don't care if it's 18 inches of snow on the ground. Take your butt out to the park and let her. You know, you can fill that hole by giving yourself what it is that you thought you should have gotten from the other person. And then forgive them for not giving them.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And also giving it to her children now.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

She said her children are the same age as her father's children.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Wow. Well, I want to. Just from a spiritually hygienic perspective, I want to be careful with that because that was my goal, to give my children what I didn't have. And in doing so, I forgot about the kids. I got into the giving them. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I got into the giving. I didn't have a.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You thought they should have the things. They should have the things.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I didn't have a stable home. They had to have a stable home. I didn't have. I didn't. I had food scarcity. Even now at my age with everything that I have two refrigerators full to the brim right now. You can come to my house, you want anything. Why? Because I live with food scarcity. I didn't know always where my next meal was coming from. And so today I can afford two refrigerators that's full to the brim. Full right now, because that keeps my little girl safe. Keeps her safe. And it don't. And I love to shop. I don't go on there. I don't care. Oh, they got wings on sale. Let me go.

[Kamri]

Put it down.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

That makes me happy, so it makes me happy to make her happy. So just be careful trying to give them what you didn't have or what you wanted. Make sure that's what they need. That's not what my children needed. That's not what Nisa needed. Nisa needed hugs and kisses. Her love language were words of affirmation. Jamia's love language was quality time, which she got because I took my kids everywhere with me. Her, Damon, Nisa. I was dragging them along like little ducklings. But that's not what she needed. So in my quest to work two jobs and to keep the home and to have the food and to buy the clothes, I missed giving her what she needed, which were words of affirmation.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mm. Did this help you?

[Kamri]

Absolutely.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Absolutely, yes.

[Kamri]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you've been watching us a long time, so.

[Kamri]

Yeah, I think the shows about the daddyless daughter, I think that came out before I was born, and I just caught it up on YouTube. So, yeah, that was a long time ago.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yes. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What are some basic spiritual, I don't know, practices that we need to create our own daily spiritual hygiene?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Number one, breathe. There's 50 people sitting right in here that ain't breathing. Air's going in and out their nose. But I'm talking fill the lungs. Let your whole body participate in your breath. Because we walk around and schedule and tight and performing, and as soon as something happens.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We tighten up.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Tighten up, yeah. On the Durham devices, people aren't breathing. I'm like, breathe.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Number one.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Number one, breathe. Stillness. Be still and know what's next, what to do, what not to do. Be still and know how you feel. How are you feeling? Not fine. That means effed up, insecure, neurotic and excited about it. That's what FINE means. That's an acronym. You know, people will just. It's habitual. Fine. No, you're not.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Everybody is going through something. This is what we know.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And in this contam, our world is contaminated right now.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Spiritually, physically, emotionally contaminated people are scared to death.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so spiritual hygiene is about coming to terms with what is the truth of you acknowledging that moment by moment by moment by moment by moment. We have to take a quick break, but first, as you're listening, does someone in your life come to mind who may want to learn from Iyanla about spiritual hygiene? If so, go ahead and send them the link to this episode. We'll be right back.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

We're back with the Fixer, spiritual teacher and bestselling author, Iyanla Van Zant. Iyanla says, as adults, we often have to unlearn some of the lies we were told in our childhood. Let's get back to the conversation. Matthew.

[Matthew]

Yeah, this is so good. Because I. In the beginning of my life, my mother and father were not the best human being. They made decisions that they shouldn't have made. And I got the bad end of the stick as the boy, whereas my sister did not. So I had to be placed in the state until my aunt uncle had to come and raise me until my mom got clean and then I got with her. So with all of that, it's almost like no one told me nothing. They just said, good. They just said, good. They just said, your dad is on vacation or whatever, and my son, my mom every now and then. But they didn't tell me why she had visitation rights. Why did she have to come in and come out?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

So it's not that they didn't tell you anything. They didn't tell you the truth.

[Matthew]

They did not tell me the truth.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And the reason I said good that they didn't tell you anything is because that meant you had a lot less to unlearn.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mmm.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

See, a lot of us were told stuff that we then had to unlearn. Nobody told me anything either, so I didn't have a lot to unlearn. I had a lot to learn. But unlearning, woo, that's rough.

[Matthew]

Sure. So we grew up in a family where we kind of just dealt with things we didn't really express. And I guess my question is how? Cause I'm a feeler. She calls me sensitive sometimes. But how do you learn? How do I learn to express in a family that does not. They just deal. They just. They don't feel. They just sweep right in the feel.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

What they do is they numb or dissociate. You can't. Everybody's made the same way. God gave Us all. A brain, a heart, a nervous system. It's not that they don't feel. It's that. The dishonesty. The emotional dishonesty. So they numb or dissociate and move on in performance. But let me say this to you. Thank you for sharing that. I want to support you in kind of recreating the beginning. I heard you say my parents made decisions that they should not have made, and I got the bad. And this tip. Yeah. That makes them wrong. And in spiritual hygiene, we don't want to make people wrong. We want to see their humanity and tell the truth about it. They made the best decisions they could make based on who they were and the information they had at the time. And those decisions had a negative impact on you. That's the truth. Your mother and father never got up one morning and said, let me destroy my kids by going out here and get some drugs. That would have been a bad decision.

[Matthew]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

So I just encourage you and invite you to relanguage that story, not to make yourself a victim.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hmm.

[Matthew]

Yes, ma'.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Am. It had a negative impact on you. That's the truth. And then everyone. The family, participated in it by not being telling the truth about it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mm.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Imagine nobody told you your mother was on drugs or incarcerated. Nobody told me my mother was dead.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Duh.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

So I grew up thinking one person was my mother who wasn't until I was 30. Okay.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's a lot to unlearn.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

A lot.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Not only is that a lot to unlearn, and then you have to go through the process of, is everything a lie?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

That's it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Is everything a lie?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Everything.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Everything is a lie.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And so for me, I can smell a lie, You know? So truth for me, you know, that is like. That is my minimum daily requirement. I can't deal with a lie. So what I would say, first of all, start relanguaging your story. And again, let me go to the base. Everything happens the way it needs to happen. It may not be the way we like it. So the thing becomes, what did I learn? What did you gain? What did you grow? See, for me, I became a guardian of the truth. That's my spiritual high. Don't lie to me, and I won't lie to you. I became a guardian of the truth because of the very devastating experience. What did you learn that you can then use? I learned how to bury my second daughter by the mistakes I made very. In the first one. I know that sounds bizarre, but this is like spiritual hygiene, you know? This is what we do. Like you have to take chemo, which could have devastating effects to cure cancer. But you want to be healthy, so you deal with the effects. There's something lesson, a mission, a purpose in what you went through. And don't compare yourself to your sister. You got what you needed, she got what she needed. Her soul had a docket. Your soul has a docket. Spiritual hygiene has a soul docket, meaning your own.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Just because you all come from the same family, this is for everybody. Everybody has their own soul contract. You come to the planet for a different reason than she came to the planet, even though you came from the same people. And your job, your role is, what she's telling us in spiritual hygiene is to figure that out and to work at every day enhancing what is the real reason why you are here. And I think this is just really incredible advice for everybody. To reorder the way you tell the story so that you are not the victim in the story. You are not the victim in the story. Because so many people have made themselves the victim of what they didn't get.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And then missed the power of what they did get. It was good, you know, we signed up for this. We did. And again, that's another the beauty of grief. While grief takes you into the pain, it also expands you because once you learn the meaning.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know you just said that and that went over a lot of people's heads. When you say you signed up for this. I know I can hear a lot of people saying, but I didn't sign up for it. Because what you think you signed up for is the life you see everybody else living.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Uh huh. Yeah. You see, that's spiritual hygiene. To compare your life to anybody else's life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

If you're living it, if you're experiencing it, you signed up for it.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Signed up for it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You signed up for it. The sole contract. Signed up for it.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

You know, like when you do certain things online and they say read and accept, you don't read that, do you? Yeah, you go down there, click that button so you can get to the next page. Right? You don't read it. And then when they come back later on and they're asking you to see, well, what is you sign. You accepted it, right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Accepted it, yes. But does that make sense to you all?

[Matthew]

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know in this from the spiritual realm, we all signed up for what we, you know, it's why Maya used to say to me all actually not only say, she wrote a book called Wouldn't Take Nothing from My Journey Now, I wouldn't take nothing, but here's the piece.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Now that we forget Ms. Oprah, you're equipped to handle it. That's the piece we think that we're not equipped to handle. Being left or being diseased or being this or that or. You are equipped to handle it. You really are. Every car is built with a tank of gas that'll get it where it needs to go. So are you. You know, I would have never said, well, yeah, let my mother die, let my uncle raped me, let me get pregnant as a teenager. That sounds like an exciting thing to do. I would have never picked that thing. But when I look back now and my evolution from the little girl, Ronnie, into Rhonda the woman, into Iyanla the writer, into, I say, wow. Yeah, I did have what I needed because I made it through.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mm.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I always use this metaphor because I hike a lot now, and when you're looking up at the mountain and it looks like you have so far to go, it feels like every step is a burden. So I always. Now I turn around and I look back at how far I've come. And when you look back at how far you've come, it gives you so much more energy and power to keep going. Look at how far you've come.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Yeah. And also that's why God built roads that curve. So you can only see from here to there. Then you gotta go around the curve, and then you see from there to the next way. Then you gotta go around another curve. Cause you have to sit here and look there. I can't do that. I can't do it. I can't do it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, but if you can hit the.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Curve and keep on going.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And that's why the switches aren't that.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Life like that. Isn't life like that?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Life is like that.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

You hit the curve and you gotta maneuver, but you get around. And then when you get around, whew. Got that one. And then before you, there's another one. And sometimes you go a long stretch before you hit a curve or a ditch or whatever. But we are equipped. We have so little faith in ourselves.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. But I love this idea of sitting in the space and in the peace of how far you have come. And all of us has our own story. We all have our own story about how far that is. After a quick break, a woman with a mentally ill mother wants to free herself from the guilt of feeling responsible for her mother's choices.

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Welcome back. If you know someone who might need some help with a spiritual cleansing, send them this link to this conversation. Let's get back to my talk now with Ayanna Vanzant. Where's Jenna? Jenna, what's your question for Iyanla? Yes, hi.

[Jenna]

Grateful to be part of the conversation. I've always had a very complicated relationship with my mother. I was parentified and made to feel emotionally responsible for her as a child and growing up later financially. And she was numbing her own pain and her own trauma with shopping and spending and debting and denial and then mental illness. And for the last 12 years, she's been homeless. And I tried everything to prevent that. I spent money.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Excuse me. Wait a minute. Bad spiritual hygiene to have that feeling and ignore it. Let it come up. Honor yourself. It won't kill you. Look how far you've come. Breathe. Breathe in it. Yeah. No, don't shake your head. No. Yes. See how brilliant the body is? The body is cleansing itself. Tears cleanse. It's bad spiritual hygiene to feel an emotion and then to keep everybody comfortable, you keep on going like the thing wasn't even there.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Go ahead. We'll just be. We'll just wait for you.

[Jenna]

Listen, I don't really cry about it anymore, okay?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

But you're releasing. Breathe, Please, please.

[Jenna]

That was not my plan, so. My plan.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know that wasn't your plan, Jenna, but here's the thing. The fact that you're still crying about it means it's still there and it needs to come up to be cried about.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And that's bad spiritual hygiene. That right there, that's a fibroid. That's raising your blood sugar.

[Jenna]

Who wants to cry on Oprah?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Oh, everybody. Everybody cry the Oprah crying.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what everybody does.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Everybody. Okay, Breathe.

[Jenna]

So to give.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Wait a minute. Breathe. Check in. Better?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Okay, go ahead.

[Jenna]

So I tried to fix and prevent her consequences and her current reality. I gave over $50,000 and my own finances, career, sanity were destroyed. Like, I put them at risk. However, I knew that was not, like, what was in store for my highest self. So I. Before I hit my own bottom, I got help in Al Anon, which for some people don't know. It's friends and family of those with addiction. My mom was numbing her pain like an addict. And no matter what I did, I couldn't prevent where she was going. And I finally saw that by getting help and learning to have boundaries, you know, and really, it came down to her. Me. It really was her or me. I chose me. I got help, and I had to let her go. Now I have a husband and two children now, and I choose them, and I choose them over her. And so I don't engage with her because I can't show up as the best version of me for my children or my husband. And I deserve to do that. Now. I refuse to pass this trauma to them. So I do the work. But if I share about this part to this other professional side of my life, it's just. It's too much for me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So what are you feeling? The main question is, you're feeling guilt.

[Jenna]

Guilt and shame. And it's not the shame of her life. It's the shame of how could you let her be homeless?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Well, okay, you know, sometimes you got to let your loved one hit rock bottom because God made the rock. God made the rock. So if she down in rock bottom, that's her business and God's business. That's number one. Number two, helping somebody out of obligation is not helping them at all. It's destroying you. And in your preach this morning preach this morning, and helping her out of obligation, sacrificing yourself, that is not. Not only poor spiritual hygiene, it's abuse, self abuse to put yourself out. But in this contaminated world we live in, that's what we think we're supposed to do. But each of us is given the gift of a life. Each of us. And each of us gets to choose. But always beloved, vote for you first. And people who love you and care about you, like, I hear that story, and you say, you know, she's homeless. You had to let her go and vote for you. I'm like, yes. And good spiritual hygiene. Good spiritual hygiene. Good spiritual, you know, But I'm weird. Don't be. But what a courageous act. What a courageous act.

[Jenna]

Yeah. I can't be in conversation with her. I can't have communication anymore. And I tried up until about eight months ago, and finally I was like, it's taking pieces.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

If she ever comes to you and asks for anything and needs it, and you can give it to her, you can give it to her through the door. You don't have to take the chain off. Just reach it out here, Ma. No guilt, no shame. And maybe you don't have to talk to everybody about it. Talk to your weird friends. People like me?

[Jenna]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I mean, our non saved how hard it is.

[Jenna]

I do every week.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

How hard it is to watch her make this choice for herself. That's what's hard. Not her being homeless.

[Jenna]

No.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

The fact that she doesn't have to be. But this is the choice that she made.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And even when you were saying I spent $50,000 and I did this and I did everything to try to get her, you know what I'm thinking is. Well, that's you. She's not doing any of that. That's all on you.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Did she ask you to do it?

[Jenna]

She expects it. She holds me responsible.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Here's the question. Here's the question. Did she ask you to do it?

[Matthew]

Yeah.

[Jenna]

And demanded it. How could I? She's still.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

You didn't have a sacred no or a holy yes. Very important in spiritual hygiene. Your no has to be sacred, meaning it's protecting, it's governing, it's guiding. When you give your no, it has to be solid and firm from the inside out. A sacred no, a sacred no. And a holy yes. Meaning your yes inspires, enlightens, evolves, help.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You don't just love a sacred no, y'. All.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

A sacred no is a boundary, Matthew.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're taking that in.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I know.

[Matthew]

Can you give an example of the yes?

[Oprah Winfrey]

A sacred no?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

I got the no down pat.

[Matthew]

Give me an example of the yes.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Is when I make a commitment about a promise to do something because I want to.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it's coming from the center of myself.

[Matthew]

And it's coming from the center of you betraying myself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're not betraying yourself.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And you're not just performing. You're just showing up because you think you have to, because you feel obligated or because you're afraid of what other people are going to say. You know, we get to a age where I forget what people say, so I really don't care. Say that if you want. I won't remember next time. Go on, say it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So it's about releasing yourself to the freedom of honoring yourself. You said, I've honored myself. But you have not made yourself comfortable with the honor that you're giving yourself. Because somebody. I don't know who's in your head or what are you on social media or whoever's telling you that you need to be doing something different.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

What part of you tells you you should be doing something different? Because again, everything is energy. The laws of the universe are flowing. This is the law of cause and effect. Yeah, the Cause always comes on the inside and then it'll show up on the outside. So she is voicing something. You're holding. What part of you is saying I need to be doing more?

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's the truth right there.

[Jenna]

That's what I was taught from day one. I was filling a hole in her. She did.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

But look at her. Why are you taking her left?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Can you forgive yourself for not being able to do more to save her?

[Jenna]

Yeah. I mean I like this has been.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Going on for a long time. Yes or no?

[Jenna]

Yes.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Can you forgive yourself for not being able to. To do more based on her choice? That's number one. Can you forgive yourself for no longer being willing to participate in her self destruction? Can you forgive yourself for that?

[Jenna]

I think so.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Work with it. Hear what I said? Forgive yourself for no longer being willing to participate in her choice.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's huge. Isn't it? Y' all and I know y' all got some stuff going on that this applies to. Cause I could see the nods.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Forgive yourself for no longer being willing to participate in someone else's self destructive choice. And why I say no. Forgive yourself for no longer being willing. Because there's a part of you that thinks you should.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yep.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Of course, the evolved part, the clean part is no longer willing to participate in that. So you're forgiving. The part of you that's forgiving is the part that's saying to that other part, no, no, I'm not willing to participate with you in that confloration.

[Jenna]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the forgiveness is accepting the fact that you now realize that everything that you've done, that's all that you can do. You have to accept that. Isn't that true?

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Absolutely.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jenna]

And that it didn't make a dang difference.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

It did make a difference. It taught you. Ah, preach this morning. See?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Preach this morning.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Good spiritual hygiene brings everything back to you. This was your lesson. Beloved.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, that hurts.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

That hurts.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh my God. The little hairs just stood up.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

You think this was about her? It was about you. You can't. Somebody else can't learn their lessons in your life. Hear me. Only you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Somebody else can learn their lessons in your life.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

And if you don't enjoy your life, your mother's misery will. So you got to enjoy your life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Church is over.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Ellen's are going to be song parts.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Of the church are now.

[Jenna]

Oh my God.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Received the offering.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Spiritual hygiene. Spiritual hygiene. Yeah. That was all about you. How far will you go before you say no? When will you set up a boundary? When will you hold?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Get some ahas off of that.

[Jenna]

Yes.

[Kamri]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, my God. Eyes are watering from the A. Ha.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Wow, wow, wow. You think this is deep, Wait till you get the book.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, my God, Iyanna, that was so good.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

But isn't that true, everybody? You think you're doing it for them. You're not.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's your lesson. It's your lesson. It's your lesson.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

But see, we're programmed and conditioned to reach out.

[Oprah Winfrey]

No.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

It's all about you. So get your no, sacred. Get your no, your yes, holy. Create your boundaries. So your work now, again, is about forgiving yourself for believing, A, you did anything wrong, B, that you should have done more, and C, forgive yourself for feeling guilty about no longer being willing to participate in her choice.

[Jenna]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you.

[Iyanla Vanzant]

Thank you, miss.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, Deanna Van Zandt did some preaching up in here today. Iyanna's new book, Spiritual A Practical Path for Clean Living for Our Inner Authority and Divine Freedom, is available wherever you buy your books. And thank you to my guests, to Camry and to Jenna and to Matthew and to you audience for being here in New York City today. Thank you so much. Thank you. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.