Oprah and Misty Copeland on Her Remarkable Life & Career that Transformed Dance & More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Oprah Podcast

Episode: Oprah and Misty Copeland on Her Remarkable Life & Career that Transformed Dance & More
Date: December 9, 2025
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: Misty Copeland

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Overview

In this moving conversation, Oprah Winfrey sits down with Misty Copeland, the first Black female principal dancer at American Ballet Theatre, on the eve of Copeland’s retirement after 25 groundbreaking years. Together, they explore Misty's journey from a tumultuous childhood to international stardom, discuss the physical and emotional demands of ballet, delve into the importance of representation and mentorship, and reflect on identity, legacy, and resilience. The episode also features listener questions and surprise appearances that highlight Misty's inspirational impact.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Divine in Dance and the Emotional Weight of Retirement

• Returning to the Stage: Misty shares the challenges of preparing for her final bow after a five-year hiatus—citing burnout, injury, motherhood, and changing motivations.
  • “It’s been really intense getting back to the stage, not just physically, but emotionally and psychologically…” (03:00 – 04:16, Misty)
• Doing it for Herself: She emphasizes a shift in focus:
  • “…I want to do it for myself. And the final dance...I’m really looking forward to it. I’m really excited again.” (04:18 – 04:50, Misty)
• The Divine Experience:
  • “Watching you is like something divine is also happening.” (00:00, Oprah)
  • “I’ve felt that from the moment I started dancing...It’s been a part of my survival. It’s been the way I’ve escaped so much adversity.” (09:06 – 09:26, Misty)

2. Copeland’s Childhood and Path to Ballet

• Early Instability and the Boys & Girls Club:
  • Misty recounts growing up amid instability, moving frequently, and finding security at the Boys & Girls Club.
    • “…the first time that I felt this sense of belonging and home...Because up until then, we were living in and out of other people’s apartments and motels…” (14:35 – 15:49, Misty)
• Discovering Ballet Late:
  • At 13, Misty is considered a “prodigy” by her teacher Cindy Bradley; moves in with her to pursue rigorous training.
  • “She said she thought I was a prodigy from the moment she touched my foot.” (17:55, Misty)

3. Representation, Mentors, and Breaking Mold

• Being the Only One: Misty describes being the sole Black woman at ABT for 10 years and the struggles with belonging and confidence.
  • “…if I didn’t act like I belong, how could I expect anyone else to see me that way?” (21:11, Oprah reading from Misty's book)
• Mentorship:
  • Arthur Mitchell’s advice:
    • “You have to walk in this room like you are a queen, like you belong here. Because if you don’t believe it, no one else is going to believe it.” (21:28 – 22:09, Misty quoting Arthur Mitchell)
  • John Meehan (Mentor/Coach) appears and shares:
    • “It was as if somebody had given me a perfect canvas, a primed canvas…and said, here, make something wonderful.” (24:11, John Meehan)
• Declining a Comfortable Path for Change:
  • Misty turns down Dance Theatre of Harlem to stay and change ABT:
    • “If we don’t take that step, how will we ever see progress and change in these white companies?” (20:22, Misty)

4. Facing Pain, Injury, and the Cost of Excellence

• Physical Sacrifice:
  • Misty danced through injuries, underwent surgery, and felt exhaustion that led to her hiatus.
    • “…you were just saying, your tibia is shattered and you’re still dancing…something comes over you or into you that allows you to be what you are on stage.” (08:16, Oprah)

5. Advice and Connection with Listeners

• Listener Q&A:
  • Savannah (11-year-old dancer of color):
    • “It’s really about surrounding yourself with a circle of support…the journey…isn’t always going to be joyful.” (30:11, Misty)
  • Jen (Latina former cheerleader): On redefining herself after dance:
    • “There’s no moving forward without ballet...It is forever a part of me and the woman that I am.” (34:49, Misty)
  • Kiara (Black woman pilot): On feeling isolated:
    • “It was having the support that I’ve had…not just about looking for black ballet dancers, but just black women in general who could connect with me…” (39:01 – 39:57, Misty)
    • Oprah’s wisdom: “I come as one, but I stand as 10,000…You are never walking into the room alone.” (41:20 – 42:34, Oprah, quoting Maya Angelou)

6. Barriers, Identity, and Changing Ballet Standards

• Pancaking Pointe Shoes: Misty’s experience coloring her ballet shoes to match her skin tone, advocating for inclusivity in ballet attire.
  • “…it’s European. Pink is the color of the pointe shoes…it’s saying, you don’t belong…this is how you make it inclusive.” (43:25 – 44:15, Misty)
• Body Image and Puberty:
  • Misty didn’t hit puberty until 19, experiencing physical changes while performing professionally.
    • “I had to keep telling myself, I will never be that 16 year old girl again. What do I have to do to be my healthiest self in this body?” (45:15 – 46:26, Misty)

7. Personal Fulfillment, Family, and Moving Forward

• Breaking the Cycle: All Misty’s siblings have long-term partners despite chaotic upbringings.
  • “We didn’t want to repeat this cycle…we’re all very close with one another.” (47:22 – 47:41, Misty)
• Marriage: On her husband’s support and waiting to propose until after her principal dancer promotion:
  • “…he waited to propose to me until I was promoted to principal dancer because he didn’t want to distract in any way.” (49:01, Misty)
• Promotion Reflections:
  • “By the time I was promoted to principal dancer, I was kind of like, oh, okay. But I understand the importance of the title…now the real work begins.” (49:47 – 50:42, Misty)
• Leadership and Attitude in Ballet:
  • “I think it’s leadership…you’re a supporting character in this storytelling.” (50:54 – 51:27, Misty)
  • On principal dancers being considerate: “The first thing I did…I took my bow…and I got my butt off that stage because those girls are in pain, waiting.” (52:36, Misty)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Divine Inspiration in Dance:
  • Oprah: “Watching you is like something divine is also happening.” (00:00)
  • Misty: “It has been a part of my survival…the way that I’ve escaped so much adversity.” (09:06, 00:14)
• On Confidence and Representation:
  • Misty: “If you don’t believe it, nobody else will.” (21:28)
• On Leadership:
  • Misty: “I think it’s leadership…you’re a supporting character in this storytelling.” (50:54)
• Oprah's Maya Angelou Reference:
  • “I come as one, but I stand as 10,000…You are never walking into the room alone.” (41:20)
• Gratitude and Fulfillment:
  • Misty: “I never imagined that ballet would take me here and that I would become the person that I am…to see that growth is even more impressive than any accolades.” (53:43 – 54:06)
• Closing Affirmation:
  • Oprah: “You really make me proud to spell my name W O M A N. You do.” (55:04)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Reflections & Divine Experience: 00:00 – 01:32
• Returning to Ballet, Emotional Prep: 02:43 – 05:18
• Stepping Away & Burnout, Motherhood: 06:04 – 04:49
• Physical Pain & Survival: 08:16 – 10:50
• Discovering Ballet, Childhood: 14:35 – 18:36
• Being the Only Black Dancer, Arthur Mitchell & Confidence: 19:12 – 22:07
• Mentorship – John Meehan: 23:33 – 26:56
• Listener Q&A (Savannah, Jen, Kiara): 30:03 – 42:34
• Inclusivity – Pancaking Shoes & Representation: 43:10 – 44:40
• Body Image, Puberty in Ballet: 44:53 – 46:26
• Family, Breaking the Cycle: 47:22 – 48:27
• Marriage & Promotion Reflections: 48:53 – 50:42
• Qualities of a Principal Dancer: 50:54 – 51:53
• Bow Anecdote & Fellow Dancers: 52:04 – 52:36
• Fulfillment and Closing Remarks: 53:43 – 55:13

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Overall Tone and Takeaway

The conversation is intimate, honest, and empowering, brimming with gratitude and humility. Misty Copeland appears candid, grounded, and deeply aware of her role as a trailblazer, mentor, and cultural changemaker. Oprah creates space for reflection and wisdom, offering encouragement and celebrating Misty’s resilience and influence.

Final Note:
Oprah closes with heartfelt admiration, highlighting Misty’s phenomenal womanhood — a sentiment echoed by listeners and mentors alike. Misty’s story stands as a testament to determination, the importance of mentors, and the transformative power of the arts.

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For anyone seeking inspiration about overcoming adversity, finding purpose, and making history, this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[Oprah Winfrey]

This episode of the Oprah Podcast is presented by Walmart. Do you feel that it is obviously your training, obviously the work, but there's also something. Watching you is like something divine is also happening.

[Misty Copeland]

I've felt that from the moment I started dancing that it has been something that I've needed. It's been a part of my survival. It's been a part of the way that I've escaped, you know, so much adversity throughout my life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hey there and thank you for listening and watching the Oprah Podcast. And hello to all of you who are seeing us on YouTube. Really glad to be here with you all today. I am in my teahouse with a. What is the word? You are a phenomenal woman in the greatest sense of the word. And everything that Maya Angelou meant when she wrote that poem, phenomenal. You're also a trailblazer who has transformed the face of ballet, of dance, and so much more. She is a transcendent talent. Misty Copeland. She was the first black female principal dancer at the illustrious American Ballet Theater. And now after 25 years, I like that number. She's taking her final bow. She's written over 10 books and in two new children's books, letters to Misty and Bun Heads Act 2, she shares the lessons that kept her on her toes, literally, while making history. Welcome, welcome.

[Misty Copeland]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know. All these years we.

[Misty Copeland]

I know.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Never, never.

[Misty Copeland]

How did that happen? I don't know how.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think you did. We did something with you on the Oprah show about remembering your spirit or super soul or something. We did. But I wasn't there. But I wasn't there.

So we're recording this conversation. It's September right now and your retirement gala, which I have agreed to be on the board as a co chair for. And I did that just so I could meet you. And then this happens. The gala is in October and so this podcast will be airing after that. After announcing her retirement, Misty Copeland took her final bow on October 22 at the World renowned American Ballet Theater where she spent 25 barrier breaking years of her life as a ballerina. I had the honor of co chairing that gala on a starry night at the Lincoln center in New York City. After her performance, Misty stood at center stage and received a 15 minute standing ovation.

So that would have been your first public performance at.

So what's going through your mind now as you're preparing for it?

[Misty Copeland]

You know, it's taken a lot for me to get back on stage.

Because.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You'Ve been off for.

[Misty Copeland]

I didn't want to. I really, you know, have been struggling with what it means for me to be back on stage at this point in my career. And so.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So it's been five years.

[Misty Copeland]

It's been five years. And it was my choice, you know, to kind of step back and just really reassess what it was I. What it is I'm doing on the stage. You know, I've done so much throughout my career and, you know, represented, you know, my community and what it is to not fit a mold. And I feel like I've said so much, and there's so much more work to be done, and I feel like that has to be done off the stage. And so it's. That combined with a lot of things, you know, I think just burnout from having injury and being in pain for so many years that you kind of lose that. That sparkle, that passion for it. And so it's been really intense getting back to the stage, not just physically, but emotionally and psycholog. I mean, all of those things have to really be in sync and connected.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You know, it's the same with now you're a mom.

[Misty Copeland]

And now I'm completely. Changes everything. My body is completely different, and it's really a new body that I'm in, you know, approaching doing the work I've done my whole life. But I feel like I've gotten over that hump of feeling frustrated or feeling, you know, that I'm doing this because I want to say thank you to all of the people who've supported me, but I'm at a point now where I want to do it for myself. And the final Dance. The final dance with American Valley Theater.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Misty Copeland]

And I'm really looking forward to it. I'm really excited again. I feel like I've gotten over that hump where I'm not just kind of, like, hanging on by my fingernails because it's physically so difficult to get back into that kind of shape. But now I'm like, okay, I'm in a groove. I. I'm rehearsing the pieces that I will perform, and they're all so meaningful to me. So it's like this beautiful love letter to my classical career and to American Ballet Theater.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mm. Psychologically, I understand that thing of. I remember making the decision after 25 years to no longer do the Oprah show, and it wasn't one thing. It was a series of things. It's like I realized that I'd reached a point where I was asking the same questions, and I could not Muster the same excitement for. What is that eyelash you're wearing? I mean, if I did another makeover, I mean, in the beginning, I was excited about everybody and their excitement about the makeovers. And then I just realized, I don't know another way to say that that is coming from a true self. And I always wanted to not be doing it if it wasn't completely authentic.

[Misty Copeland]

Right. Yeah, I completely relate to that. I completely relate to it. And, you know, I feel like I got to a place.

It was in 2019. I got to a place where I just. I felt like I always told myself, I guess, similarly to you, that I would. I wouldn't do it if I could.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I said, I don't want them dragging me out with the microphone.

[Misty Copeland]

No, not at all.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And how did you know you were ready to step away?

[Misty Copeland]

The last performance I was supposed to dance was the lead in the ballet Giselle at the Kennedy center in D.C. and it's one of my favorite roles, and I had injured my back, and I had to pull out of the performance the morning of the show. And I remember feeling relieved and not sad, and I was like, this is not a good sign. And I really need to kind of step back and evaluate what's going on and why I'm feeling this way, you know? And I think it was, again.

A culmination of.

20 years of performing, you know, up until that point, and dealing with a severe injury that, you know, I had a surgery on my tibia. I had a plate screwed in after six stress fractures. And even after having this surgery, I was still performing in a lot of pain. And I just feel like I got to a point where that excitement kind of wore off and that, you know, working towards this goal of becoming a principal dancer. And now I was just exhausted in every way, you know, especially mentally and emotionally exhausted to have to muster up that energy to get on stage and rehearse, you know, day after day. And again, I just felt like I feel like being a black body on the stage, I've done what I needed to do, and now there's so much other work that needs to be done off stage and behind the scenes and sitting on boards of these, you know, theaters and institutions that don't have artists and don't have black women. And that my voice, I think, will have an impact in a different way by not being on the stage anymore.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I can't imagine, and I don't think anyone else could, who's watching us or listening to us can imagine the physical pain and the emotional preparation necessary to do what you do. I mean, you were just saying, you know, your tibia is shattered and you're still dancing and you're in pain. And when you're doing that to us, it looks like you're actually in another world, that you. Something comes over you or comes into you that allows you to be what you are on stage.

Do you feel that? That it is. That. It is obviously your training, obviously the work, but there's also something. Watching you is like something divine is also happening.

[Misty Copeland]

I've felt that from the moment I started dancing that.

It'S been so much more to me than just going out there and having fun or because I'm good at it. It has been something that I've needed. It's been a part of my survival. It's been a part of.

The way that I've escaped so much adversity throughout my life.

And so whenever I would, whether I was in a ballet studio or performing on a stage, was the first time that I felt this sense of security and safety, that no one could do anything to me when I was up there on the stage, and something took over. And it's literally like your toe crosses that threshold between backstage and, you know, the sidelines before you get on stage. And I become the character as soon as I'm out there and all of that pain and all of those worries and distractions go away. And so. But your body can only tolerate that for so long.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So long. Yeah, yeah. You put your body through a lot. Yeah, yeah. I imagine in your own personal meditations, however you do that, you have a lot of gratitude for your body holding up the way it has.

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah. Even more so now. You know, at 43 and having my son, Jackson, I'm in a completely different body than I was at 17 when I joined American Ballet Theater. And I have so much gratitude for this body getting me to where I am and having the strength and the resilience and power and vulnerability that it has.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What's it gonna feel like to take that last bow from that last dance?

[Misty Copeland]

The closer I get to it, the more emotional it is. A year ago, when I was asked to do it, I just felt like it's been five years. I've already really mourned and processed so much. The company is different. So many of the dancers that I grew up with are no longer there, so I felt very removed from it. But now that I'm back in the theater, in the studio, and where I grew up, it's kind of bringing up not Even these memories or emotions from, you know, five years ago. But like back when I first joined, really, it's very interesting that that's what is coming up. You know, being 18, 19 years old and first entering into the company and I think this sense of, you know, as you were saying, gratitude for the opportunity and for this life that I've been given because of ballet and the person that I've become because of ballet.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Are you nervous at all?

[Misty Copeland]

I'm not.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Of course not.

[Misty Copeland]

I'm not. I've never been someone that really gets nervous. So.

I.

To me, it's like I'm the most comfortable and I feel the most myself when I'm on stage. So it's my whole life I've been nervous. And so these are the moments when I'm not. So I'm just really excited.

[Oprah Winfrey]

After this quick break, Misty Copeland shares the moments and mentors that helped shape her remarkable rise as a pioneering ballet dancer. We've been hearing how Misty Copeland has lived her life dedicated to ballet. Our friends at Walmart want you to know they are dedicated to over delivering for their customers this holiday season. This means more gifts for everyone on your list and more ways to get them delivered to you fast so you can spend more quality time with your loved ones all season long. Did you know the Walmart app is your ultimate holiday gift destination where you can find top brands at low prices. Whether it's a gift for the holiday party host or hostess, a secret Santa present for your co workers, or must have stocking stoppers for the whole family. With all the hustle and bustle over the holidays, Walmart has you covered with express delivery so you can get gifts to your door and as fast as an hour, right up to Christmas. And Walmart members get free shipping on orders big and small with no minimum purchase all year long. How great is that? Walmart? Who knew? Shop great [e-mail] or on the Walmart app. I'm back with the incomparable Misty Copeland, the prima ballerina who broke through barriers in the dance world. Let's get back to our conversation. I want to go back a little bit in your story because you have written about this before. But for those of you who don't know Misty's whole personal story, let's talk for a moment about your childhood because I think there are such lessons in resilience, in betting on yourself. And what I have come to know at this wizened, ripened age is that not one thing that ever happens to you or you, or to Me is wasted. So all the adversity, all the challenges, all the, you know, help to build the woman that you are. So tell us about growing up and your mom and your five siblings and living out of motels and the kind of place nobody would have thought you would have found. A ballet dancer.

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Misty Copeland]

I was actually born in Kansas City, Missouri. My mother.

Was a professional cheerleader for the Kansas City Chiefs football team. She loved movement and dance, but she really loved sports and athletics. And so the reason that she did wanted to become a cheerleader was so that she could be on the field and watch the game. But so that was really ingrained in us, I think, this. This love of music and of movement and kind of using our bodies. My mom left my father and picked up with me and my three siblings at the time and moved to Los Angeles. So I was two when I came to Los Angeles. And that was kind of the beginning of the chaos. You know, picking up and moving became this theme throughout my childhood. By the time I was seven years old, we would have six. There would be six children, and. And my mother had married two more times and divorced. And it was when I was introduced to the Boys and Girls Club at seven years old, it was the first time that I felt this sense of belonging and home, like a real sense of home. Because up until then, we were living in and out of other people's apartments and motels and my mom's.

[Oprah Winfrey]

No stability.

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah, no stability at all. No consistency.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Not feeling safe.

[Misty Copeland]

Not feeling safe. There was abuse in the house, and.

I became mute pretty much. I mean, I was so introverted and didn't have a voice, and I didn't want people to know what was going on in my, you know, home environment. So I thought if I don't say.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Anything, was it abuse to the kids or was it abuse to your mother?

[Misty Copeland]

Both.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Both.

[Misty Copeland]

And so that was my way of coping, was just to not have close relationships. And the Boys and Girls Club was the first time that I feel like I kind of started to break out of that shell and had this sense of safety. And the first time I was introduced to the word mentor and what it meant to have a mentor.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The Boys Girls Club saved so many lives.

[Misty Copeland]

So many lives. Which is why, you know, I'm still very much a part of that community.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, it's one of the things that I did. Yeah, I've done a lot of things, as I know you've done a lot of charitable things. But one of the things I'm most proud of is I Went back to my community in Kosciusko, Mississippi, and built a Boys and Girls Club.

[Misty Copeland]

No way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. In a Tallahassee, Kosciusko, Mississippi. There's Oprah Winfrey Boys and Girls Club.

[Misty Copeland]

I have to visit that one because I have visited so many.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, if you're going to Tallah, I'm gonna come join you. Okay. I love it. Ok. But, yes, it saved. And one of the reasons I invested in that is because it saves children's lives.

[Misty Copeland]

You're meeting them where they are. You're meeting them in their communities. You're not pulling them out. You know, there's. I was surrounded by people who looked like me and understood where I was coming from and the community that I grew up in. And so that was really the first time that I started to kind of feel like an individual apart from my siblings.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And then, as a young teenager, you ended up moving in with.

[Misty Copeland]

With my ballet teacher.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, with your ballet teacher.

[Misty Copeland]

It was at 13, on the basketball court at the Boys and Girls Club, that I discovered ballet. And it was from that ballet teacher that I would live with. Cindy Bradley.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Cindy Bradley.

[Misty Copeland]

She was looking for diverse students to bring into her school on scholarship, and I happened to be one of them at the Boys and Girls Club. She said she thought I was a prodigy from the moment she touched my foot. She says she saw me move, and I went to her school on scholarship, and it was really difficult for my mom. She didn't have a car to get me back and forth to the valet school. And that was far from a priority of hers with, you know, working two jobs and raising six children. So my teacher offered to have me live with her, and I ended up living with her for three years so that I could really focus on the training, since 13 is considered a late age to start dancing. And I would move to New York City after only four years.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Really late to start dancing.

[Misty Copeland]

Very late.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You see little girls are doing it at three years old. Yes.

[Misty Copeland]

So after only four years of training, I was invited by American Ballet Theater to move to New York City and join their company.

[Oprah Winfrey]

There was a moment where you were also invited to go to the Dance Theater of Harlem, and you turned that down. And I think that, you know, that's a very prestigious company where you would have been surrounded by dancers who look like you. But you knew what.

[Misty Copeland]

It was. Early on in my career, it was pretty recent, after I had moved to New York and joined American Ballet Theater. And it all hit me that I was the only black woman in the company. A company of 80 dancers. And I started to really lose myself and my purpose, I guess, and how I could contribute to this company. Like, where would my path go? And it was in that time that Arthur Mitchell, the founder of the Dance Theatre of Harlem, he was also the first black principal dancer at the New York City Ballet. And he came into my life and he was mentoring me and he invited me to take company class with the Dance Theatre of Harlem. And. And right there on the spot, he offered me a soloist contract, which was a huge deal for a 21 year old who was in the corps de ballet of American Ballet Theater. He said, why don't you come here where you don't have to worry about being different? You'll just be like everyone else. And I really thought about it. I went home and I thought about it, and I just felt like American Ballet Theatre was my dream company, and if we don't take that step, how will we ever see progress and change in these white companies?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Misty Copeland]

And so I turned him down. And I think it was.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Were you scared to turn him down?

[Misty Copeland]

Terrified, yeah. I mean, he's a legend and he's offering me the opportunity of a lifetime.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think that that would be very intimidating.

[Misty Copeland]

It was very intimidating. But I knew that I had a bigger understanding of what it was I.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wanted to do, even at 21.

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And you'd only been dancing at that point for eight years?

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. You say in letters to Misty, which is a beautiful book, and I'm going to have you sign one to my great nieces, because I think it's wonderful if you're trying to discover yourself and trying to figure things out about your life. You say on page 19, being the only black woman at American Ballet Theater for the first 10 years of my career was incredibly tough. There were days when I questioned if I belonged. And you go on to say, I came to realize that if I didn't present myself with confidence, if I didn't act like I belong, then how could I expect anyone else to see me that way? How were you able to do this?

[Misty Copeland]

You know, Arthur Mitchell had a big part to do with that, that understanding. I remember that first time I came into the Dance Theater of Harlem building and he said to me, you have to walk in this room like you are a queen, like you belong here. Because if you don't believe it, no one else is going to believe it. And it completely changed the way I thought about how I carried myself. That it wasn't just about how I. How I performed on a stage, but it's how I'm always carrying myself that, you know, if you don't believe it, nobody else will. I don't believe it. No one else will.

[Kiara]

Yeah.

[Misty Copeland]

And it definitely changed my perspective.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think that is the truth for so many people who now suffer from imposter syndrome. I think a lot of people don't believe it themselves and therefore.

See how other people don't believe it, because that's also what they're projecting. Right. And other people may not believe it. It doesn't matter if other people believe it, as long as you believe it.

[Misty Copeland]

Exactly.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I will tell you one of the reasons why I was able to be so successful in my business and in syndication is because when I did the contract and I said, I want 50% if we get to this number, if we sell this many stations, and if we get this. And they said, okay, you know why? Because they didn't believe it would happen.

They didn't believe it. If they had known that it was gonna happen, I would have never gotten that deal. So one of the dedications that you do in Letters to Misty, it reads, to your mentors, your teachers, and your loved ones, you are the foundation of dreams realized. The foundation of dreams realized. And there's a man named John Meehan who was the director of American Ballet Theater's Studio Company when Misty joined at just 16 years old. And he is now joining us on Zoom. Hello.

[Misty Copeland]

Hello.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hello. John Meehan, what did you see in Misty at 16?

[John Meehan]

What did I see? Well, I saw, I suppose you would say, endless potential.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Endless potential.

[John Meehan]

And she had the limbs to speak as a real ballet dancer. You know, we speak with our limbs, so they have to be a certain shape. Hers were outstanding, especially her beautifully arched feet. She actually pointed her foot. Was it Cindy Bradley who pointed her for Missy?

[Jen]

Yes.

[John Meehan]

And she said, immediately, you're a ballet dancer just from pointing her foot.

But she had all of the basics. She was limber, she could turn, she could jump. She was a charming person. And it was as if somebody had given me a perfect canvas, a primed canvas, the best oil paints and best brushes, and said, here, make something wonderful. And we began. And we did. I think.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, yeah. What has it meant for you to John, watch Ms. G's career and the way she has navigated her place in the world. What has that meant for you to see that? First of all, affirm what you saw in her and affirm it at a level that you never even expected. I mean. Cause the world never expected this from her.

[John Meehan]

I wasn't surprised that she became the principal dancer. And I think Misty knows that. I think I said it to her quite a few times.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But did you believe him when he first said it to you? Misty?

[Misty Copeland]

I did believe John, but it would change in the years after.

[John Meehan]

Yeah, well, when I kind of passed her along to the main company, I was. I was able to stand back and watch her develop. It was very frustrating for me and for her that she had time away with injuries. And, you know, I think a little bit is that of that is because she started later in life. Even when you start very young, your. Your muscles, sinews, bones, everything is. Is getting a kind of a strength that Misty didn't have starting at 13. So she had to kind of battle that, I think, really her whole career. Would you say that's fair?

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I think it was a combination of things. I think also maybe not even because I'd started late or I didn't maybe go to a professional ballet school, you know, one of the big companies and big schools, is that I didn't really understand how to take care of my body. I didn't really think of it as my instrument. And, you know, what I was putting into it, how I was feeling it, how I was cross training, all of those things. It was also natural to me that I just kind of did it. And, you know, John's belief in me, your belief in me, was everything, you know, for. From a young age. But once I joined the company and I no longer had this almost parental father figure, you know, holding my hand, and you're kind of thrust into this adult world on your own now, it became very real. You know what it was not just to be someone who maybe wasn't completely strong enough and ready, but also as a black woman who felt very alone, which I felt just made it a lot more difficult for me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

John, thank you so much for joining us and saying hello.

[Misty Copeland]

I love you.

[John Meehan]

Yeah, I love you back.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks so much. Thanks so much.

[Misty Copeland]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know Debbie Allen was also a mentor for you. Yeah.

[Misty Copeland]

Yes. Debbie came into my life very early. Cindy Bradley, my first teacher, was very conscious and thoughtful about how she kind of prepared me in the best way she could to enter into the ballet world. You know, she was thoughtful of the fact that I was the only black woman girl, for the most part, at her school. And how am I going to prepare this young girl to enter into the dance world?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And Debbie's such an icon. What did she model for you?

[Misty Copeland]

Debbie came into my life and showed me what it was to lead. She showed me what it was to.

Be proud of her community and where she came from and bringing her community with her everywhere she goes. She leads with joy and with love. And community is always at the base of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely. And I think what's so wonderful and one of the reasons why I know you wrote letters to Misty is that you have this desire to give back and mentor in the same way that John and Debbie and Cindy and others have mentored you. And to be able to be a voice for these young girls who are watching you and seeing the possibility of what might be for them through you, it's so vital.

[Misty Copeland]

You know, I wouldn't be where I am if I didn't have the support that I had from early on in my career and throughout my career. And so I know how important it is to have that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Time for a quick break. Up next, Misty Copeland takes questions from listeners around the country. If you know someone who might take something away from this conversation, like Misty's lessons on resilience, please share the link with them. We'll be right back. Did you know the Walmart app is your ultimate holiday gift destination where you can find top brands at low prices? With all the hustle and bustle over the holidays, Walmart has you covered with express delivery so you can get gifts to your door in as fast as an hour right up to Christmas Eve. And Walmart plus members get free shipping on orders big and small with no minimum purchase all year long. How great is that? Walmart? Who knew? Shop great [e-mail] or on the Walmart app. Hi, welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I hope Misty Copeland's story inspires you to recognize the power you have to uplift yourself and the people around you. If this conversation speaks to you, pass it on to a friend who may be in need of a little inspiration. We heard from a lot of our podcast listeners who want your advice. 11 year old Savannah is with us and she has been a competitive dancer now for eight years and dreams of being a professional dancer. I hear like, like, like, like Radio City Music hall as a Rockette or maybe even a ballerina. Oh, I see Misty's book on the shelf.

[Kiara]

There we go.

[Misty Copeland]

Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I have one question. What would be your advice for a.

[Misty Copeland]

Dancer like me wanting to be just like you in the ballet world and especially as a dancer of color like me? Oh, wow. You know, I really think that it's about everything we've been talking about Oprah. You Know, I think it's really about surrounding yourself with a circle of support and community who will be there to support you on those difficult days. It's not always going to be joyful and laughs, but it's gonna be a lot of hard work and a lot of ups and downs. And it's so vital that you have people around you who will be there for you and who look like you and understand the journey that you're on.

[Kiara]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're welcome.

[Misty Copeland]

It's so nice.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did you have something else you wanted to ask? I saw a whole big, long list of questions you had.

I also wondering, why did you pick.

[Misty Copeland]

ABT to be your school you wanted to go to? What a great question. You know, at the time when I was starting to train, there weren't a lot of options in terms of seeing people that looked like me and who looked like you in professional schools and professional companies. ABT was the closest I saw to diversity in terms of their cultural diversity. They had dancers from all over the world that could come into the studio company, come into the company. And so I, my teacher and myself, like, we felt like it was the best fit for me as a young black girl.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And was this your question, too? What do you think about when you walk on stage for performance? Did you have that question?

[Misty Copeland]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Misty Copeland]

When I'm walking on the stage, I'm literally transforming into whatever character I'm portraying. It's literally that magical moment when you become the music, you become one with the orchestra and with the choreography. And so I may be listening to Drake right before, but as soon as I step onto that stage, I am, you know, Odette Odile or whatever character I'm portraying.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What is the one thing you would want people to know that you experience or feel through ballet that they most people wouldn't think about or know?

[Misty Copeland]

I mean, I think that most people think about kind of this rigidness and being really pulled together and uptight. And I feel this extreme sense of release and freedom. That might be the opposite from the way that a lot of people envision classical ballet.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, because it is so rigid. But you feel extreme freedom.

[Misty Copeland]

Freedom and release.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do you feel that when you're dancing? Savannah, what do you feel when you're dancing? Tell us what it feels like when you enter the stage.

[Misty Copeland]

Well, usually when I enter the stage, I just feel like I'm there and I'm doing this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Like, I don't think about what other.

[Misty Copeland]

People are looking or thinking about. I just think about what I'm thinking and how Such an honor this is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

To be doing that. Wow.

[Misty Copeland]

That is the way to think about it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you so much, Savannah, for joining us. Thank you.

[Misty Copeland]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's great.

[Misty Copeland]

Bye.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Bye.

[Misty Copeland]

Bye.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Jen is joining us from Los Angeles. She was a professional cheerleader for both the NBA and NFL for years, and recently you retired from that, I hear. Jen, what's your question for Misty?

[Jen]

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. So, Misty, it's been such a great honor to follow your career. First and foremost, as a Hispanic woman, you know, I've experienced the same of 25 years of dancing. And, you know, thank you for champing us for inclusivity and diversity and putting so much courage out there through movement and through just so much of your heart. And my question is, when I retired after 25 years, you know, my whole life and my schedule has been filled with rehearsals every week and performances. And so there was such a great pause in my sense of identity, because, to your point, dance was a sense of escape in a safe space from adversity and something that was mine through the chaos and that I was good at. And so wondering, you know, the next stage, no pun intended, of your life. How are you redefining who Misty is beyond ballet and what new adventures that may have been put on pause or callings that excite you most about your journey?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, you know, that is such a great question I was going to ask. That's really a good question. Really good.

[Misty Copeland]

For me at this point in my life, like, there's no moving forward without ballet. It is so ingrained in who I am. It's given me these incredible tools that are transferable in everything I do and will continue to do in my life. So I never think of it as this loss or that I'm leaving it behind. It is forever a part of me and the woman that I am. And there's a through line in everything that I do, whether it's.

On the speaking circuit or the books that I write or my foundation or the production company that I have. It's all connected to movement and really changing the narrative and how people view ballet. I think there's a lot of tropes and negativity that surround how people view what it is to be a part of it. And I want to bring that joy and wonder and sense of community that so many experience. And so I just. I'm so grateful for the journey that I've had because of ballet.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. But that's a great question, because you would think, I mean, a lot of people, when they have been identified as one thing in their life. When that thing goes away, they lose themselves, become depressed, become, you know, uncertain, confused. So that's why I think it's such a, such a legitimate, legitimate question.

[Misty Copeland]

Right? Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Were you worried about that yourself as a dancer, Jen?

[Jen]

Definitely. You know, I did go through the highs and lows of just trying to navigate the next chapter, and I think that's just so human because when you give so much of your heart and soul to something for 20 plus years of your life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Jen]

You know, there's that grieving that Misty spoke about is very real. And I think it's something to also makes so normalized of just like you grieve loss in different ways and loss of a career, a loss of a dedication to a passion that, that you've excelled at and opened many doors for people and women that need to be represented.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wonderful. Thank you, Jen. Thank you. Thank you for that.

[Jen]

Thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So much. Kiara now joins us from Fort Pierce, Florida. Hi, Kiara.

[Misty Copeland]

Hi.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Where she. She is completely different. You don't dance, right?

[Kiara]

No.

[Oprah Winfrey]

No, not professionally anyway. You're training for your commercial pilot's license, I was told, and so we welcome you. So what's going on with you down there in Florida that has you relating to Misty Copeland?

[Kiara]

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate being here.

For me, I always wanted to be a pilot, but I never thought it was attainable for me because I had never seen anyone that looked like me that was a pilot. And also it's a very male dominated field where there's only less than. Where there's less than 1% of black women that are pilots in aviation.

It wasn't until I had the privilege of meeting a black woman pilot that I was encouraged to do training and pursue my career of becoming a pilot.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because you were a flight attendant before you were a flight attendant. A flight attendant before.

[Kiara]

I was a flight attendant before.

[Misty Copeland]

Okay.

[Kiara]

Was always interested in becoming a pilot, but didn't think that that was something that I could do. I flew with a black woman pilot and she was the one who encouraged me to go after my dream. When I started training, I was the only black person and the only woman in my class. And I suffered a lot from imposter syndrome and just feeling lonely and not being able to relate to anyone. And so my question for you, Misty, is how did you power through feeling lonely, not really having anyone to relate to and just the pressure of feeling that you needed to, you know, do something great and finish empower.

[Misty Copeland]

I Mean, I think at the. At the kind of heart of all of that was my real passion for it. That really kept me going. But, I mean, that's not gonna get you through on, you know, every day in those tough days. And again, you know, it was having the support that I've had in my life, and it was. For me, you know, it wasn't just about looking for black ballet dancers, but just black women in general who could connect with me in the same way you feel a connection to me, you know, even though we're not in the same field. But understand what it is to be the only and understand what it is to be the first and to be able to have those people to come to and have, you know, whether I'm just saying all the things I felt in a day and they don't say anything back, but they're just an ear to listen was so extremely helpful. That kept me going on this path. And knowing that I do have support, I do have people that believe in me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you. Is that helpful?

[Kiara]

That's very helpful. Like, I have an organization, Sisters of Disguise, that, you know, we can go to and ask certain questions to just on the. On your day to day, there's really no one around in your circle that, you know, kind of you can call on sometimes. And that can be hard at times when you're going through this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

May I just say to you, Kiara, as Misty knows, when you are the trailblazer there isn't, because you are the one that's blazing the trail. So I think changing the perception of who you are and why you're there makes a world of difference. And listen, I've been in so many rooms where I was the only woman. I was the only black person. I mean, I remember being in some town, and I was like, there's not a brown person within 500 mile radius of here. And, you know, it has never bothered me or concerned me because there was a. There is a poem that Maya Angelou did, called to our grandmothers. I think it's called Our Grandmothers. And there's a line in that poem that has lived with me and abided with me, and I share it with you. She says, I come as one, but I stand as 10,000. And so for every meeting I've ever gone into, every boardroom I've ever gone into, where I knew I was the only woman, I was the only person of color, I was the only thing, I always just suit up. Literally, emotionally, spiritually sued up, I have sometimes gone into a closet and called on that 10,000 because you have been prayed up. Maya used to say this to me, and this is true for you, especially your generation. You've already been paid for.

You've already been paid for. So all you need to do is put your crown on and wear it. So you gotta know, when you walk in the space, you are the one who's blazing the trail. And the reason you are there blazing the trail is. Is because so many people prayed you up to be there, sacrificed for you to be there. And now you've been paid for. You've been paid for. And you are never. You are never. May I tell you, you are never walking into the room alone. You are walking into the room as a symbol and as a representative of everybody who came before you, who didn't get the chance that you have. That's how you're walking into the room.

[Kiara]

Thank you.

[Misty Copeland]

Beautifully said.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you, Kiara. So you had to fight to even wear the proper shoes. Yeah, yeah.

[Misty Copeland]

I mean, and as you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the proper shade of makeup.

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah. As you're saying, you know, there are so many that came before me that fought for this and that paved the way. And now I'm being given a platform to have a voice and to speak on it. That's how I feel about my journey and my path. And, you know, with having to pancake my shoes, as we say, you know, I'm in an art form that is European art form.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I didn't know until I heard that, read that, saw that. Oh, that the pink shoes are supposed to be matching the skin.

[Misty Copeland]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So all these years, that's what the pink skin was for. And then this went viral with, like, millions of people watching.

[Misty Copeland]

Since I started ballet, I've been pancaking my pointe shoes, my skin color. Everyone has a different method. You know, it's European. Pink is the color of the pointe shoes. It's the color of the tights we wear. And if that doesn't exclude so many, then I don't know what does. You know, and that's the first thing you get when you enter into this space. You get your tights and you get your ballet slippers. And for all those little black and brown boys and girls, you know, that are receiving that message, it's saying, you don't belong. You know, Arthur Mitchell started it with the dance suit of Harlem in the 70s. You know, he was dying their tights and dyeing their pointe shoes so that it was a representation of their skin. And I feel that it's something that we need to acknowledge. We need to go back and give credit where it's due and say that this is how you make it inclusive. This is how you represent all bodies.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So are they now doing tan slippers?

[Misty Copeland]

It does exist. This happened during the Pandemic post George Floyd, where a couple of the bigger.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Brands, you could have had your own brand of shoes.

[Misty Copeland]

I'm working on it, so it's not too late.

But you know that they have caught on and feel that it's something that they have to do because there are more black and brown dancers that want to be a part of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mm. In letters to Misty, you talk about which was shocking to me, not hitting puberty until the age of 19. First of all, why? What was going on in your body?

[Misty Copeland]

I think it happens with a lot of really active young girls, whether it's gymnasts or ballet dancers, when you're so extremely active. And it's something that I think is genetic in my family. Most of the women in my family didn't start until later. And I think I actually would have started later than that had my doctor not put me on birth control to speed up.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you didn't get your first period until you were performing?

[Misty Copeland]

I was performing professionally. I was actually in one of my first Swan Lakes when I was in the corps de ballet that I got my period on stage in a white tutu.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, my goodness.

[Misty Copeland]

Pretty traumatizing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, my goodness. We've all had our own bad stories, right? I can't imagine. What do you want to say about your relationship to your body now and how that relationship has changed?

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah, it's had so many.

So many growths and evolutions and I have to embrace and accept my body for what it is in that moment. I think even when I, you know, went through puberty at 19, I gained 10 pounds within a couple of months and I had a completely different body. But I had to keep telling myself, I will never be that 16 year old girl again. What do I have to do to be my healthiest self in this body? And I think that's how I've been on this journey, even after having my son. And this is not the same body that I entered American Ballet Theater having. And I have to have a different grace and approach to the things that I'm doing and respect for it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, you know what? I have such respect for the way you have managed all of this, because we know having a big life can become really unmanageable to a lot of people, and particularly when you've grown up and you didn't have anything to model that, you know, it was late.

Your ideas about yourself had already been formed by the time you moved in with Cindy and her family. And I heard that you and your siblings, despite your role models growing up, despite growing up in an environment where often you didn't feel safe, and as you say, there was. There was abuse. All six of you have long term partners, no divorces. How is it that all of your siblings have long term relationships when you all came from such craziness?

[Misty Copeland]

I think we're all very similar in a lot of ways in that we didn't want to repeat this cycle. Well, nobody wants to repeat it, but they do. Real true, true fear of it. We're also all very close with one another. And I don't know.

It'S pretty wild.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It is.

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah. It's really incredible.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hundreds, thousands of interviews. And usually people repeat everything that they.

[Misty Copeland]

That they see and don't want and.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Don'T want because that thing is familiar. So you draw to yourself exactly the opposite of what you think you want. Yes.

[Misty Copeland]

Pretty incredible.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's pretty. Y' all should be studied.

Really. I think it's a case study. I've never heard of such a thing. Yeah, I've never heard of such a thing. It's always somebody or one or two or three. And then not only that, they repeat the same pattern that your mother repeated.

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah, yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it's one person and another person, another partner. It's highly, highly, highly unusual, I can tell you.

[Misty Copeland]

Yeah, it is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Tell us about your husband.

[Misty Copeland]

It's pretty incredible. He's an amazing man that, you know, I think I was drawn to him because I felt such safety and stability and partnership.

I think that, you know, I was maybe not skeptical about marriage, but not something I felt that I needed to jump into. I think my mom.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I've not seen your mom do it multiple times.

[Misty Copeland]

Exactly.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it not work out.

[Misty Copeland]

Exactly.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Misty Copeland]

That's the role model you had, right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Misty Copeland]

My husband and I were together for.

Like 15 years. I think something like that close to before we were married. And, you know, I think what makes him so special and so different and perfect for me is that again, it's never been about us as individuals, but what are we doing to support one another, you know, he waited to propose to me until I was promoted to principal dancer because he didn't want to distract in any way. He didn't want me to have my mind on anything else. So the day after I was promoted, he proposed to me and I was just like, whoa, what is happening. What is my life right now. But he's an incredible, incredible man.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And that day of making Principal Dancer, was that everything you had imagined it to be? I know you had wanted it for a long time. Did it fulfill the expectation?

[Misty Copeland]

Not that day, I wouldn't say. I mean, you know, I think that by the time I got to that place of being promoted, I had already done so much and kind of processed what it would be if I weren't promoted and I was getting to perform principal roles. And I was so satisfied with that that it no longer felt that it was about the title. And so by the time I was promoted to principal dancer, I was kind of like, oh, okay. But I understand the importance of the title. There needs to be that change and that, you know, that evolution of what it looks. What it looks like to be a ballerina who can be a ballerina. And so, of course, the title is necessary, but in that moment, it was like, okay, I can kind of relax now. But now the real work begins, now that I've received the title.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because what quality do you think, besides obviously, talent and technique, do you think is the most important quality to have in being a principal dancer? What is the stuff?

[Misty Copeland]

I think it's leadership.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's leadership. Yeah.

[Misty Copeland]

You know, that's not something I ever thought about as a young dancer, that. That was a quality that I needed to have. But I remember getting to a place where I was starting to get those roles. And Kevin McKenzie, who was the artistic director of American Ballet Theatre, when he started to see those leadership skills developing in me, was when he started to give those roles to me, and he was like, it's a real responsibility to go on stage and to lead an entire company, and that it's not just about you out there.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right.

[Misty Copeland]

You're a supporting character in this storytelling. And I feel like that's how I think about it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And isn't it also about attitude?

[Misty Copeland]

Yes, it is. Attitude. Attitude. Not just the position attitude, but it is. It's the attitude you have and how you carry yourself and how you step onto a stage and motivate and kind of cultivate that energy amongst, you know.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The entire company and the respect and responsibility that your fellow dancers feel towards you.

[Misty Copeland]

Yes. One of the first things that I remember doing as a principal dancer, I remember being in the corps de ballet, and when those ballerinas would take so long during their bows, and you've always already been standing on the side for long periods of time on one leg, and you can only switch Legs. Once that ballerina leaves the stage. And I remember all of us just moaning, going, please leave the stage. The first thing I did, I remember doing my first one, like, I took my bow, you know, fully and respectfully, and I got my butt off that stage because I was like, those girls.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Are in pain, Waiting, waiting to come on. Wow, wow, wow. Thinking of others. Thinking of others. I want to say I am just so honored to be one of the co chairs along with Caroline Kennedy for your gala. And as I was saying to you before we started, I. I'm not on people's boards. I don't do this thing of lending my name for the honorary chair and this and that of that. But I did that in order to meet you because I just thought that this was. This final dance is gonna be such a seminal moment for you, the country, the culture. I know it's going to be an event like no other. And we're just all so excited to celebrate with you. And when you. When you wake up the next morning and your eyes open and, you know, 25 years have come and gone, what do you think? Not just the next chapter, but that feeling will be of.

[Misty Copeland]

I already feel so fulfilled, and I think I will feel fulfilled and grateful. I think I will really feel immense gratitude.

For, you know, I never imagined that ballet would take me here and that I would become the person that I am. And to me, that is what's been most.

Incredible. You know, to see from the outside, to experience as myself is the. From the girl that I was at 13 years old. To see that growth is even more impressive than any accolades, any performances I've had. And that's why I think arts education is so incredibly vital and important.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I thank you. I thank you for being the woman that you are. A phenomenal, phenomenal woman. Thank you. And when you see her walking it all to make you proud. That's a line from Maya's poem. I thank you for that. Being a phenomenal woman. I thank you for the gift of your artistry. I thank you for handling it the way that you have with such grace, for leaning into it. And I thank you for your courage and for paving the way for so many countless others.

[Misty Copeland]

Thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You really make me proud to spell my name. W O M a n. You do.

[Kiara]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You really do.

[Misty Copeland]

That means so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Misty Copeland]

That means so much coming from you. Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I also want to thank our guests, John Meehan, Kiera, Jen and Savannah. Thank you for your questions and thank you, listeners, for joining us and celebrating Misty Copeland's extraordinary legacy. A very special thanks to our friends at Walmart for supporting this episode. And the book is called Letters to Misty and Bun Heads Act 2. So I'm gonna. I think if you have young daughters especially, or young adults in your life who are trying to figure it out for themselves, this is a great gift. Great gift.

[Misty Copeland]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Until next week. Go well, everyone. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.