Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships

Summary

Detailed Summary: The Oprah Podcast – "Oprah & Jillian Turecki on Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships"

Release Date: April 15, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Oprah Podcast, host Oprah Winfrey engages in a deep and meaningful conversation with Jillian Turecki, a certified relationship coach, educator, and the host of the widely followed podcast Jillian on Love. The episode, titled "Looking Within to Improve Your Relationships," explores the profound impact of self-awareness and personal healing on the quality of our relationships.

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1. Introduction

Oprah opens the discussion by highlighting the central theme of the episode: the crucial role relationships play in our overall happiness. She introduces Jillian Turecki, praising her as a rising star in the field of relationship advice, noting her bestselling book It Begins with You: The Nine Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life, and her influential podcast which boasts nearly three million followers on Instagram.

Notable Quote:

• Oprah Winfrey [00:00]: “There is no happiness without first taking care of our relationships.”

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2. Personal Story and Early Challenges

Jillian shares her harrowing personal experiences that shaped her understanding of relationships. In 2014, Jillian faced simultaneous personal crises: her mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, she suffered her third miscarriage, and her husband abruptly left her over the phone. This series of traumatic events left her devastated and forced her to confront the fragility of her relationships.

Key Points:

• Jillian’s Miscarriage and Divorce: Jillian recounts the morning she discovered she was having a miscarriage and her husband's immediate reaction to leave her, saying they were on "two different paths" ([04:36]-[06:17]).
• Emotional Impact: The sudden departure led to feelings of devastation and self-doubt, illustrating how deeply personal turmoil can destabilize all other areas of life.

Notable Quote:

• Jillian Turecki [06:05]: “Devastation.”

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3. The Influence of Childhood on Adult Relationships

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Jillian's childhood and its impact on her adult relationships. She discusses her father, Dr. Stanley Turecki, a renowned psychiatrist who authored The Difficult Child. Jillian was labeled as the "difficult child" in his book, a designation that had lasting effects on her self-esteem and relationship patterns.

Key Points:

• Father's Bipolar Disorder: Jillian explains that her father struggled with undiagnosed bipolar disorder, leading to unpredictable and emotionally distant behavior ([13:02]-[13:18]).
• Labeling as "Difficult": Being featured as the "difficult child" in her father's book initially made her feel significant but later became a heavy burden that affected her self-worth ([10:52]-[11:09]).
• Emotional Regulation: The lack of emotional regulation skills in her upbringing contributed to her challenges in managing her own emotions in relationships ([12:33]-[12:46]).

Notable Quote:

• Jillian Turecki [01:22]: "Every relationship we've ever had will reflect back to us the relationship we have with ourselves."

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4. Understanding Relationship Dynamics

Jillian emphasizes that our relationships are mirrors reflecting our inner selves. She discusses how unresolved issues from childhood, particularly those involving parental relationships, often manifest in our adult romantic relationships.

Key Points:

• Harville Hendrix’s Influence: Oprah references Harville Hendrix’s concept that partners in relationships often represent unresolved childhood issues, acting as triggers for healing ([18:06]-[18:38]).
• Mirroring Behaviors: Jillian relates her experience of her husband mirroring her father’s emotionally distant behavior, leading to cycles of self-doubt and sabotaging the relationship ([18:42]-[19:32]).

Notable Quote:

• Jillian Turecki [18:15]: "So no, he was never present. He was always in his head."

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5. Overcoming Self-Sabotage and Healing

Jillian discusses her journey of healing after her husband's departure. She became obsessed with understanding what makes relationships work, seeking mentorship, and immersing herself in relationship studies. This path led her to become a relationship coach herself, dedicated to helping others navigate similar challenges.

Key Points:

• Self-Responsibility: Jillian underscores the importance of taking responsibility for one's own role in relationship dynamics, moving away from victimhood ([45:41]-[46:18]).
• Healing Past Wounds: She highlights that healing requires addressing and letting go of past hurts, especially those originating from childhood ([46:46]-[48:26]).

Notable Quote:

• Jillian Turecki [45:41]: "It begins with you. It just means that the you are the change that you wish to see in your love life."

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6. Listener Interactions and Practical Advice

The podcast features interactive segments where Jillian responds to listener questions, offering personalized advice based on her expertise.

a. Marianne’s Story: Overcoming Fear of Remarrying

• Challenge: Marianne, a divorced mom, fears entering a new marriage due to past hurts and self-sabotage.

• Advice: Jillian encourages self-forgiveness, recognizing and breaking destructive patterns, and being open to new relationships despite past pain.

  Notable Quote:

  • Jillian Turecki [26:09]: "The fear of pain is making you push away good men."

b. John’s Dilemma: Seeking Connection Amidst Adventure

• Challenge: John, a professional skier and mountain guide, struggles to find meaningful connections despite his adventurous lifestyle.

• Advice: Jillian suggests balancing his need for excitement with building deeper emotional connections and being open to relationships that may not immediately ignite passion but offer stability and understanding.

  Notable Quote:

  • Jillian Turecki [35:33]: "I want you to make a deeper connection. And sometimes that deep connection doesn't come on the first date."

c. Tamara’s Journey: Re-entering the Dating Scene

• Challenge: Tamara, a single mom, feels anxious about dating after a long hiatus and seeks advice on approaching new relationships.

• Advice: Jillian recommends focusing on building friendships, expanding social circles, and being proactive in seeking connections outside traditional dating platforms.

  Notable Quote:

  • Jillian Turecki [40:56]: "Put yourself out there more without it having to be this, you know, swiping and going on a date."

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7. The Role of Heartbreak in Personal Growth

In the final segments, Jillian explores how heartbreak serves as a catalyst for personal growth and deeper self-understanding. She emphasizes that enduring heartbreak teaches us about our fears, patterns, and beliefs that hinder fulfilling relationships.

Key Points:

• Heartbreak as Learning: Every heartbreak is an opportunity to learn about oneself and to identify areas that need healing ([46:46]-[47:38]).
• Moving Forward: Jillian encourages embracing new beginnings and understanding that the end of one chapter opens the door to another ([46:46]-[48:26]).

Notable Quotes:

• Jillian Turecki [46:46]: "It is the greatest lesson. It is the greatest lesson."
• Oprah Winfrey [47:38]: "Connection is the single best thing that makes us feel whole."

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8. Conclusion and Key Takeaways

The episode concludes with Jillian reinforcing the essence of her book, It Begins with You, which centers on personal responsibility and self-transformation as the foundation for healthy relationships. Oprah summarizes the discussion by emphasizing that meaningful relationships stem from being present and connected on a deeper level.

Final Quotes:

• Oprah Winfrey [48:24]: "And it begins with you creating that bridge."
• Jillian Turecki [48:22]: "It begins with you."

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Overall Insights:

• Self-Awareness is Crucial: Understanding and healing one's internal world is essential for fostering healthy external relationships.
• Past Influences Present Relationships: Childhood experiences and parental relationships significantly shape adult romantic patterns.
• Taking Responsibility Empowers Change: Accepting personal responsibility rather than blaming others leads to meaningful relationship transformation.
• Heartbreak as Growth: Heartbreak, though painful, is a powerful teacher that facilitates personal growth and deeper self-understanding.
• Practical Strategies for Relationships: Building deeper connections, being open to various forms of relationships, and actively seeking connections can enhance relationship quality.

This episode serves as a profound guide for listeners seeking to improve their relationships by first looking within and addressing their own emotional landscapes.

Transcript

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hi there. So glad to be with you here on the Oprah podcast. This is where we are having conversations around ideas that I certainly hope are gonna make your life better, more enhanced. And maybe you'll see yourself in my guests or hear something that sparks a new way of thinking about something that you're struggling with. You'll have an aha. To remind you of what you know and what your true wisdom has always been. My guest today says our relationships determine our happiness in life. Well, isn't that just the truth? And if you're like me, if my relationships are out of whack or not in a good place, then everything else is off kilter. Like when you have an argument with somebody who's close to you and you love, it throws everything else off. And there is no happiness without first taking care of our relationships. And so I'm so happy that Jillian Teki, who is a certified relationship coach, a teacher, and host of the hit podcast Jillian on love, almost 3 million of you are following her advice on Instagram. Well, Jillian wrote a book, her very first book called it begins with the nine hard truths about love that will change your life. So welcome to the teahouse.

[Jillian Turecki]

Oh, thank you for having me. Every relationship we've ever had will reflect back to us the relationship we have with ourselves, period. End of story.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Julian Tearecki is a rising star in relationship advice, and it is not your.

[Jillian Turecki]

Job to try to convince someone to be ready for you or to choose you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Her smart, no nonsense guidance is resonating with a growing loyal audience.

[Jillian Turecki]

Some relationships don't work out because you both were too immature to make it work out.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Her book It Begins with you was an instant New York Times bestseller. Her hit podcast, Jillian on Love is being called one of the best relationship podcasts. And she is the daughter of renowned psychiatrist Dr. Stanley T. Whose 1985 book the Difficult Child was once considered the definitive work on dealing with what would then call hard to raise children. And you Write on page 214. I was a highly sensitive child who felt his darkness so intensely, it disturbed me.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did you and your father ever find peace? So many people have been telling me to have Jillian on my podcast.

[Jillian Turecki]

I'm just terrified of not being enough. The fear of pain is making you push away good men. I want you to make a deeper connection. And sometimes that deep connection doesn't come on the first date.

[Oprah Winfrey]

If you're ready to find out how all your relationships begin with you, this is your episode.

[Jillian Turecki]

Just go for it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I see that you are in a moment. Do you feel that moment for yourself?

[Jillian Turecki]

I do absolutely feel like I'm in a moment for sure.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I feel like a moment of rising because someone mentioned you to me. Have I seen your new book? And then someone else mentioned your name. And then my niece Krishonda sent me a video. And so I'm thinking, and this is all within a period of two or three days. So I'm thinking, okay, that's the magic of three. Let's call Jillian. And then I find out that we have this long time connection that I didn't even know about. So how are you navigating the rise?

[Jillian Turecki]

I'm navigating it, you know, it's a wild ride. It's a wild ride. It's exactly that. I navigate it by staying grounded through my yoga practice, through meditation, and through just trying to stay as present as I can.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think that's the key for all things really. So I wanna start at the beginning of the book. I mean, whoa. Did you have a wham damn doozle of the beginning of a book? Yeah. You say that on second 2014, my life fell apart. My mother had recently been diagnosed with terminal cancer. You say yes. And given three months to live. And you say that morning I suffered my third miscarriage and my husband left me. He broke up with me over the phone.

[Jillian Turecki]

I woke up that morning, it was a very early pregnancy. And I woke up that morning to bleeding. And it occurred to me that what was happening, you were having a miscarriage? Yes. And he was already at work. Cause he had to go to work really early. And I called him and I said, I have to go to the gynecologist just to get blood work to make sure that this is what's happening. Can you come with me? Can you meet me there? And he said, no, I'm really busy at work. And I said, okay. So I went by myself. And this was something I had to do by myself before.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jillian Turecki]

And then it was confirmed. And so I came home and I text him saying, what time are you going to be home tonight? And he said, I'm going to stay at my parents. And I said, and I knew in my bones, in my body that he was fleeing. And I said, well, what do you mean? And then I called him. And what ensued was a conversation where he was basically telling me that we are on two different paths. And I was, I went a little hysterical. Cause I thought, you know, you can't do this this way. You can't do it like this. That's very wrong. I kept saying to him, it's not the right thing to do, and you're gonna regret it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jillian Turecki]

And you're gonna. And you're the one who's gonna have to live with that for the rest of your life. But he didn't. He never. Yes. Did we see each other again? For sure. But did he ever come home again? Never again.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. And you felt what?

[Jillian Turecki]

Devastation.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Devastation.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yeah. Yeah, devastation. I remember having this thought, oh, this is what it means when someone says that their world has completely fallen apart. This is what it means when everything.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Your mom's been given three months to live with terminal cancer, you've had your third miscarriage, and your husband says, I'm not coming home.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it's just not working out for me. Had you sensed that it wasn't working?

[Jillian Turecki]

We had problems. I always said that before we got married, our relationship was about 90% great and 10% very problematic. Now, you could say, well, that's a pretty good stat. But the 10% that was problematic was profoundly problematic. The things that today I would never ignore. So people think that when they get married, their problems are gonna go away.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But that the marriage is gonna heal?

[Jillian Turecki]

That the marriage is gonna heal it. No, the marriage only. Only shines a light.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It puts a big, big magnifying glass on.

[Jillian Turecki]

Correct.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what it does.

[Jillian Turecki]

So then the 10% became the 90%, and the 90% became the 10%. So our marriage was very problematic, Somewhat focused around the fact that I wanted to wait to have children. He wanted children right away. We didn't have those important conversations. And he started to do this thing where if he were upset with me, he would completely withdraw and completely shut down, which was a humongous trigger for me. And he did it a little bit before we got married. And there was something very significant that happened before we married where he pulled away. And I didn't handle it in a way that I would have handled it today.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That if you had been more mature or wizened, you would have said, uh, yes, not me.

[Jillian Turecki]

Not me. Or more courageous and more sure of myself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so you picked yourself off the floor. You were devastated.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And how long after that moment were you able to start to rebuild?

[Jillian Turecki]

Well, when that happened, I became obsessed with two things. One, how am I going to get myself out of this hole? How am I going to get myself off the ground?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Jillian Turecki]

And two, what makes a relationship work? Because I could not believe. I mean, now looking back, I can understand it, but at the time, I could not believe that I was 40 and getting a divorce or separated.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Jillian Turecki]

And that this was, this was my destiny. That's how I thought of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's not the narrative you had written for yourself.

[Jillian Turecki]

And I could not believe that I was in this position. I had been a yogi for many years. I considered myself to be mature. I consider myself to be self aware. And so it was shocking to me and I thought, I need to figure this out. I must figure this out. And it became an obsession.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh. So let's talk about your father for a moment. Famed psychiatrist, Dr. Stanley Tureki. I remember him. In 1985, he wrote a best selling book called the Difficult Child. And I remember having him on the Oprah show a couple times and people really loving his advice because the advice was all about how to handle the difficult child. And part of that, part of that theory was, it's not your fault if you have a difficult child. Children are just born that way. And these are the things you need to do now. Isn't part of the problem that parents want their children to conform to whatever their needs are at the moment? That is part of the problem. And if you have one of these.

[Jillian Turecki]

Children of a kind that I described.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They almost always are highly individualistic, very.

[Jillian Turecki]

Interesting, and they don't give in easily.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And so you can have a lot of power struggles between a parent who.

[Jillian Turecki]

Says this is the way it should.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Be and the child who simply will.

[Jillian Turecki]

Not give up on their own preferences.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What was, what was the premise of that book in your mind?

[Jillian Turecki]

Yeah, that. That children are born with a. We're all born with a specific genetic makeup.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Jillian Turecki]

That gives, that makes it so that we have a proclivity towards a certain personality or certain. He wouldn't, he didn't use this word, but like a certain nervous system, a certain way of being and that you might have this difficult child.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That is just their nature and that.

[Jillian Turecki]

Is just their nature. And so if you are struggling, here's the compassion. You know, it's not you, it's not your fault. You didn't create this. And here are the tools on how to create more peace in your family life. Because the difficult child is definitely disrupting.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so here's our connection. It turns out you were the difficult child he was talking about in the title. How did that label impact you?

[Jillian Turecki]

Well, hugely, because he mentioned me in the book and the new edition. He took that out per my request. So of course, as a young child, I was like, I'm famous. This is amazing. I felt significant. I felt like a book is being written about me. This is amazing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Jillian Turecki]

And then as I started to get older, I realized, wow, this label is like a heavy bag that's resting on my shoulders that I can't get off. It follows me wherever I go. And so if I did say you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Were funny and you had other personality.

[Jillian Turecki]

Traits that were absolutely. He said, and that once I became a certain age, I grew out of it. I grew out of it. So all is not lost. So, yes, but it was all part of this. He called it a syndrome, the difficult child syndrome. So the difficult children can also be incredibly creative. They can have good. A lot of them can have good social skills. These are not the children who need to be hospitalized for behavioral stuff. They kind of teeter that line. And I just thought every time I made a mistake or every time I was very sensitive to something, because that really is what a difficult, quote, unquote, difficult child is. I do believe that we have certain nervous systems that we are born into for. And that can start in the womb. And some people are just more sensitive than others. And so when you're a child and you have a high degree of sensitivity, you don't know, and you don't have the emotional regulation skills. The only emotional regulation skills you're learning are those of mom and dad.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right.

[Jillian Turecki]

And my parents had a terrible marriage.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you write on page 214, I was a highly sensitive child who felt his darkness so intensely it disturbed me.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you're talking about your own father. What was the dynamic between you and your father?

[Jillian Turecki]

My father was a very complicated man. He struggled a lot with bipolar, a very severe form of bipolar that was not diagnosed when I was a child. So it was a bipolar.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you didn't know it was bipolar?

[Jillian Turecki]

No. Nor did he.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. And so you just have all these mood swings that you can't predict.

[Jillian Turecki]

That you can't predict.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. And so that made. What kind of a relationship for the two of you?

[Jillian Turecki]

So I felt his moods very intensely, and he scared me. He never laid a hand on me. But his energy was very dark and very unpredictable because I saw more of the serious depressive side. And he was a psychiatrist, so he was very brilliant. So he had a very analytical mind. And he was never present. He was always in his head. And so I would pick up on the tension that he had in his body, and then he was unavailable. Like, you couldn't ever really reach him. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And if you're a kid, you're gonna blame that on yourself. That, like, he's never As a child, you don't have the language to explain, oh, this is a bipolar thing that's happening, and he's never present. He's not present with anybody.

[Jillian Turecki]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're thinking the reason why he feels so distant and removed and shut down is because of me.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes. Something I'm doing wrong.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you Write on page 138, inside all of us is a child who desperately yearns to be loved by a partner the way a parent would ideally love us. And that is unconditionally. And that's what every relationship is actually seeking. Did you and your father ever find peace?

[Jillian Turecki]

I found some peace with him before he passed away. I had to wake up one day because I decided to be estranged from him. One day I decided to stop returning his calls. And I thought if I just never spoke to him again, that I would be okay, that that would be the solution to whatever suffering I was feeling. And the reality is, it didn't solve anything because it's just. It's the ultimate form of avoidance.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Jillian Turecki]

I just pushed it down and pretended like he didn't exist. And then only years later, the joke's on me. No, no, no. He exists. And actually, the monster grows because the more you avoid, the more it actually lives inside you and controls you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. Well, I appreciate you so much spending your very valuable time with us today. I know your life is busy, so taking this time to learn something new or pausing to listen to a conversation means a lot to me. Coming up, Gillian's advice for a divorced mom who says she's terrified of ever getting married again. Plus, a professional mountain climber looking to conquer his fear of intimacy. Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. I'm here with relationship coach Jillian Tearecki, the host of the hit podcast Jillian on Love, talking about her new instant best selling book, it begins with you, the nine hard truths about love that will change your life. So, Jillian, the question is, how did your experience or life experience, your relationship with your father, your relationship with your husband, leaving you, lead you to this moment of wisdom that is resonating, especially with women.

[Jillian Turecki]

So, as I said, I became obsessed and so with figuring out what makes a relationship work. And so I worked with coaches I worked with, I have mentors that I've had literally since then. And I put my entire life into understanding relationships and the concept of love. And I always felt there was something because I had been a yoga teacher for many years, and I always felt like there was something more for me. And I didn't know what it was. And then I discovered it was this. And I said, you know, this is what I'm gonna do. This is I'm gonna teach people about love and about relationships, and I'm gonna continue to teach people how to fortify the relationship with themselves, not just through yoga, but actually in the way that they think, particularly in their relationships.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. And that's where it begins with you came from.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. And so I love this idea that you express it on page 138. Let me share it with you all again inside all of us as a child who desperately yearns to be loved by a partner the way a parent would ideally love us. And that is unconditionally. And just before we started our conversation that you all are seeing, when we were getting mic'd up here, I asked Gillian if she was familiar with another world. Known therapist named Harville Hendricks wrote a book called Getting the Love youe Want. And that book redefined for me what having a relationship or being in a relationship was. Because in 1988 on the Oprah show, he said, every relationship that you're seeking, you're seeking to heal the relationship that you had with your parent, the dominant parent or guardian in your life. And that the people that show up in your life, in your personal relationships are there as triggers, as, you know, resources, as reminders for what you got and also for what you didn't get.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes.

[C]

In childhood, there are certain nurturing needs that are not satisfied in the best.

[Jillian Turecki]

Of families and by the best of parents.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So in. In, In. I mean, that is what really saved my relationship. Actually. It changed the way I operated in my relationship with Steadman and in all of my relationships. Recognizing that people come from that. Everybody's just trying to heal and find a way to be loved unconditionally. And your partner always represents some part of what didn't get healed.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So your husband represented whom for you?

[Jillian Turecki]

My husband represented my father. And here's the interesting thing. They couldn't. They looked totally different. Their personalities were wildly different. So their energy was different. But my husband with. Would shut down. He. I felt it. It's the familiar. It's how I felt in my body was so familiar, I didn't even recognize it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right.

[Jillian Turecki]

Which is, oh, he's in that mood. Maybe it's me. And then that tension that comes from believing that your partner is pulling away from you and you are the reason. And so you're constantly questioning in some way unconsciously, your lovability. Because this person is pulling away. And that was something that I felt all the time.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And I think that that is also a really good advice for people who are in relationships that are challenged is to ask yourself, where have I had this feeling before?

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because it isn't about what they look like. It isn't about, you know, any of that. Because in the beginning I thought, oh, Stedman's here representing my father. You know, my father is an honorable man, you know, loyal, all those things. And it was later on that I recognized, oh, it isn't even about my father. It's about healing the wounds with my mother. So. Because every. Every time there would be any kind of conflict, Conflict of thing. Where have I felt this before? Yes, where have I felt this before? So we know millions of women are seeking your advice, and we have Marianne joining us on Zoom. Maryann, I hear you're a divorced mom, three children. I am from Massachusetts. Who says you're terrified to get married again. So let's talk about it.

[Jillian Turecki]

I am. Well, hello to you both. Thanks so much for having me on. A little bit about me. I was married for nine years, and then I already had had two children by the time I was in my late 20s. And between working full time and being a mother, by the time I got home and got them to bed, I felt so depleted and like a shell of my old self that the only time I felt like I could rebuild was when I went to bed and I didn't want my husband or anybody to touch me. And as you can imagine, over time, that built up a lot of resentment. And then also that led to some betrayal and about a million regrets and things that I would do so differently now that I'm going to be 47. And that brings me to now I've been divorced 12 years, and it's every first date I go on before I even meet you or even on the first date I say, I never want to get married again. And if that's what you're looking for, I'm not your girl. And I have been blessed during those 12 years to have had a couple of very wonderful men for long term relationships with them. But the same thing has rung true. I just never feel like I'm enough. And I feel like my past holds me back and I just have trouble letting them in. I basically have, like, unconsciously destroyed those two great relationships that I've had since I was divorced. And I'd really love to know what I could do differently so I can have a more successful relationship. Okay. You know, when I reflect on my marriage that ended many years ago and I had to reflect on it a lot, I realized there were a lot of things. Even though I could blame him for a lot of things and actually be valid, there were things that I recognized that, wow, if I did it all over again, I would do so many things differently. And I can think back to other parts of my life where I've made really grave mistakes, where I've perhaps acted out of character, did things that I didn't want to do. And I. And someone once told me, and I wish I could remember, I wish I could say it was my mom. I don't think it was. But I was told many years ago that there's no such thing as failure. There's just lessons. And that. A lot of lessons. A lot of lessons. And the thing is the story that you keep replaying in your mind about your marriage and the things that you wish you had done differently or the mistakes that you made, or the mistakes that he made, at this point, it's really a story because we can't remember everything that happened back then. We're just giving it a meaning. So it's not that the story isn't true, but you're giving it a meaning, which is, I failed it. I don't know, I'm a failure. I can't be trusted. If I get married again, I'm going to have pain again. Do these all ring true to you? The pain? I am terrified of being. I didn't think I could hurt that badly. And my last long term relationship felt like another divorce. And I'm going to tell you, it took me over two years to get over that relationship. And I just never want to feel pain like that. I. Right. And I understand that. I understand that. And. But the fear of pain is making you push away good men. Yes. Right. I have learned that the very hard way the last two years. Yes. So can you forgive yourself? I'm trying to do different this year, to have a. I'm trying to be different this year, to have a different outcome. And I'm trying very hard to let the walls down. I'm just terrified of not being enough. And I don't. I don't know how to get over that. I'm just so terrified of feeling crushed again and let down. Well, but you both let each other down in many ways, right? In your marriage? I mean, isn't that. That's typically what happens in a marriage is that we all make mistakes. I mean, it's not that it's a 5050 split. But it was a marriage. It didn't work out. And now you have an opportunity to love again. The greatest gift you can give your children is to live your life and to be happy. Now, of course, you can't be happy all the time, but the greatest gift you can give them is to just live your life. There is no version of love that does not come with it. The risk of a broken heart. But we decide to take that risk because nothing meaningful in life comes without risk. And you have to now start to trust yourself that whatever doesn't work out, you can handle. And that when you are in a relationship and you're starting to notice, oh, I'm doing that thing again, where I'm pushing them away, I'm sabotaging. You have now an opportunity to say to yourself, oh, I'm doing that thing again. I'm not going to do that. And you can even talk about it with your partner. Like, I have this pattern that I do, and I don't want to do that. Can we talk about it? You know, I bet that you know exactly what it is that you do when you are about to sabotage a relationship. You have a habit. That's true. Yeah, I do. We all do. I don't know what your what. What your method is. Maybe you start fights. I don't know what it is. But you have this. I just pull back. You just pull back? Yeah, you pull back.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You shut down, and you pull back and you shut down.

[Jillian Turecki]

And then your partner is in. What's wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong?

[Oprah Winfrey]

What's wrong?

[Jillian Turecki]

What's wrong?

[Oprah Winfrey]

What's wrong? And you're saying, nothing. Nothing, Nothing.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yeah, that's exactly what I do.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, you know what I would say? Ask and it shall be given. The Bible says. And I would say that the fact that you're at the realization now where you have actually said out loud to us and all the people who are listening and watching that you don't want this anymore, you see this about yourself. You have chosen this path all these years, and now you are saying, I want to choose differently. And just the desire to do that and the openness and awareness of, again, how Gillian says, recognizing how you begin to sabotage yourself and being vulnerable enough, open enough with somebody to say, look, in the past, I've had this problem, and this has been an issue for me, and I'm trying to relearn in this new phase of my life. And you don't start the relationship with, oh, I'm not Going to get married. If that's what you think, you know, you just allow yourself at 46, soon to be 47, to open up to the rising of your life. This is an opportunity to begin anew. So all the old ways of being and all the stuff that you now have learned about yourself, the rising is waiting for you to meet the rising. Come on up to the rising. Come on. I am right. I feel.

[Jillian Turecki]

This is the year. I feel like I growing and I'm more aware, and I just feel like it's my time. I can't put. I'm having trouble describing it, but I just feel like.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, you're describing it very well. And you have to know that in the process of being human and meeting the rising of your life, we all make mistakes. It's not about perfection. It's not about some idea or story you told yourself in your head of what it's supposed to look like. It's supposed to look like exactly what it looks like. And you meet it where it is. And you are woman enough to do that. You have learned enough.

[Jillian Turecki]

I am. I am. I'm ready.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You are woman enough to do that. You have learned enough, and you've grown enough, and you are aware enough of yourself in this moment, whether you feel enough or not, you are enough to meet this moment, and then enough to meet the next moment, and then to meet the next moment. It is not about some big grand scheme. It's about being present in every moment, experience and decision. And you have already done that. You've proven that with raising three great boys. And as you continue to do that, so now you're ready to create this time for yourself. That's what I hear Gillian saying.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Jillian Turecki]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Go for it.

[Jillian Turecki]

I really do. Go for it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Go for it. Thank you. Thank you.

[Jillian Turecki]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you. It begins with you. Thank you. Next up is John from Colorado, who we saw on the Zoom was nodding along with what Marianne was telling us. John, hey, what's your question?

[C]

Hi there, Oprah. Hey there, Jillian.

[Jillian Turecki]

Hey.

[C]

Hey, Jillian. I've been reading your book, and it's. It's really been great so far. A nice experience, sort of towards improving my journey and finding a great relationship. And so I'm a professional skier, professional mountain guide, author, keynote speaker, and entrepreneur here in Colorado.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I just learned to cross country this year.

[C]

Oh, it's great.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, it was so great. Yeah, it is a workout.

[C]

Yeah, it is a fantastic workout. I've been single for about two years now. I had a couple of relationships that I Had prior to that for about two years each. And, you know, since then, though, because I've been single, I've really been taking time for myself, traveling a ton, seeking adventure, really leaning into my. My career and traveling all over the world a lot. Sometimes often to a fault, like really just excessively traveling and exploring the world and. And seeking out adventure, but also spending a lot of time with my. My family here in the Vail Valley, where all my siblings, their kids, and my parents also live. So we're all very close here. And only recently because of that, I've started dating again because I've, you know, healed from my last relationship. So I know that I'm ready. But it has been challenging, you know, so I've done a few meetups and a few dates, but through those dates and those experiences, I've kind of felt nothing. And I sort of miss that sort of genuine connection or the genuine fire that comes along with meeting somebody new and the excitement that comes along with that. I just kind of haven't. Haven't found that or haven't felt that. And I tend to be very picky, though, Right. And so I sort of feel like. Is my pickiness mean that I'm sort of my own worst enemy? You know, I want to. Want to meet somebody great, feel that excitement, go deep, get vulnerable, do all the important things and get into a great relationship. But I just. And. And I know I'm enough, but I just don't know if maybe I'm not ready or if I'm. I'm not feeling it. And. And I just. I don't feel anything. So, you know, what do you think? And that's sort of my question is, is, you know, is being picky and waiting a good thing? I mean, what are your thoughts on all this?

[Jillian Turecki]

I have a few thoughts. So I would imagine it's true that you really value adventure and novelty in life. Is that a big thing for you? Because you. You just said that you. Going on a lot of adventures.

[C]

I think novelty and, you know, my job is really. Can be stressful. I've. I've actually summoned at Everest four times, Mount Everest. And I guide clients there and I. Oh, boy.

[Jillian Turecki]

Anyone. So. Yes, so you do. You're not someone who is playing it safe. You're not the person who lives your life playing it safe. I mean, you're a ski instructor, professional skier. You climbed Mount Everest four times. I mean, that's not someone. Yeah, but that's not. Yeah, okay. So that's not someone who's. Who. Who's living a safe life. And so you're looking for that fire. So oftentimes when we're someone who values at a high level, adventure, novelty, maybe some risk, maybe a little bit of danger, what we're also drawn to in relationships is a lot of that fire. And sometimes, not always, but you can verify this for me. Sometimes what that can lead to is maybe a lot of relationships or relationships that feel like a roller coaster or a lot of fighting, maybe a lot of physical passion, but then just a lot of fighting and ups and downs. Is that your experience?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I tend to actually believe it or not, be very laid back and sort of patient because of what I do for a living.

[Jillian Turecki]

Oh, I believe it.

[C]

But when that gets clashed with somebody who does have the excitement and the energy, which I thrive on. Yes, I think that's caused some problems in the past.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yeah.

[C]

And I kind of figure out how to navigate that moving forward. But also at times, if I. Yeah, like I've always said to my friends or even my friends or my family say to me, because they know me very well, that I probably need to date somebody who's also not normal. Like somebody that, let's say, has a 9 to 5 job might not fit for me, but you know, somebody that, that lives a life of similar adventure or a non traditional job where they can work remotely has been a fit for me.

[Jillian Turecki]

But you said you're too picky. You're too picky. Right. So here would be. This is my advice to you. I. I would never suggest that anyone pursue a relationship with someone with whom they don't feel any chemistry. But I think you should have a lot of dates where you are really, you're sitting down with someone and really getting to know someone. Because one of the things that's really hard to distinguish is the difference between lust and love. And when we feel a lot of that fire and that feeling, you know, you said you're very laid back. So you may be going for like the fiery type and you're leading with that feeling. And I don't want you to not have any chemistry, but I want you to make a deeper connection. And sometimes that deep connection doesn't come on the first date. It just doesn't come. And if you're looking for the immediate fireworks and if you don't feel it, then you write someone off, then yes, I would say to you that your pickiness is not an indication that you're not ready, but it is an indication that this is one way in which you might Be standing in your own way. So I would actually give women who you think are pleasant and nice more of a chance. And instead of being in the position of vetting them, they have to have the same lifestyle as me. I have to feel that fire, all these things. I want you instead to try to make a connection with another human being and really get to know her, even if she ends up being a friend or even if this is someone who you never see again, to give people more of a chance so that you can practice your skills of actually really getting to know someone. How does that land for you?

[C]

It lands pretty well because it's true. I mean, a lot of people sort of look at me and say, well, you're doing this, you're doing that. You've been up on Everest three, three or four times. Like, you know what? What does your wife think of this? And it's like, well, first of all, I don't have a wife yet, but at the same time, I know of people in my same profession that do have families, and I know it's possible.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And it's very. You could very easily have a wife that would be so happy to see you when you returned home.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And not interested in making the trek with you. That's very, very, very doable and very probably likely.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes, absolutely. Who accepts you for who you are, and you accept her for who she is, but she doesn't have to be doing it with you. And I think that's where you maybe need to expand your mind a little bit.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks, John. Thank you so much.

[C]

Thank you for the time.

[Jillian Turecki]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you for your time. I thank you for joining the Oprah podcast. When we come back, Gillian's advice for anybody feeling stuck when it comes to taking that next step towards find in love.

[Jillian Turecki]

This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Welcome back and thanks for sharing your valuable time with me. Relationship expert Jillian Turecki is here and she's answering more questions that may be similar to what's on your mind. Tamara is joining us from New Jersey. We heard from a lot of women like you, Tamara, a single mom who's dedicated yourself to raising your daughter, who's now a junior in College. And now you're left with yourself. Yes.

[Jillian Turecki]

Hi, Oprah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hi, Jillian. Hi.

[Jillian Turecki]

Thank you for this opportunity. So, like you said, I'm a single mom who's 50, and my dating journey went a little bit like this. I said I was going to get back out there when my daughter went to middle school, and then that turned to high school, and then, like you said, she's a junior in college, and I attempted again. I will get excited about creating my dating profile. I'll put myself out there. I'll go on one or two dates, and that is kind of the extent of it. I have to honestly say I really enjoyed the book, Jillian, and the last chapter really resonated with me, especially, especially about really just pouring into myself, taking the time to discover who I am. And I feel like I'm at this stage of my life where I'm honestly ready to date. I'm just curious to know from your perspective, for someone that hasn't dated in a while, like, how should I be looking at these lessons? Should I be looking at it through a different lens? No, I think you can be looking at it through the same. I mean, if. When you hope to one day be in a relationship. So I always say prepare. So these are things to help you prepare. And also, if you want to put yourself out there and date, there's some very important principles in the book that you need to be aware of so that you have better experiences in. In a relationship. But I would imagine that it's a little scary, it's a little intimidating to put yourself out there and go on dates, and then maybe you don't have a great date, and then you think, well, you know, what's the point? Or, you know, I'm better. I'm. I'm happy alone. But could you maybe just think of it as, instead of going on dates to find your next partner, can you make some friends with some men? I feel like I can. I definitely feel like I can. I think it just becomes a little bit daunting. I've tried different mediums. I feel like I'm more of an in person connection versus online. So fine. I would be happy and open to exploring different mediums. And I can definitely start with being friends. I think for me, it's easy to create connections with people, but it's getting started that I'm really having a challenge with. Okay. Do you have a favorite restaurant that you like to go to in the neighborhood? Yes. Okay, so take yourself to dinner or for lunch, okay. You can sit at the bar and you can bring a book and start talking to people. Now. It doesn't have to be men. You could be sitting next to someone. Cause you said making friends and talking to people comes naturally to you. You can start talking to people, and you never know. You could meet a woman whose cousin. Whose cousin's kid, you know, whatever. Whose cousin is just recently divorced, or you just never know what's going to happen. And I often say, like, if you're not going to do the apps, totally fine. Expand your circle. Start talking to people. Put yourself. Get yourself off the couch, because it's not gonna happen on your couch, and get yourself out there. And even if you go with just one friend and you sit at the bar and start talking to people and start making connections, because then you never know. And that's a very organic way for it to happen. But it's also you being proactive. And you say, I'm gonna put myself out there more without it having to be this, you know, swiping and going on a date and having that sort of that tension and that rigidity around it. And so that's how I would start.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Amen.

[Jillian Turecki]

Thank you for that. Thank you for that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Go for it.

[Jillian Turecki]

Go for it. Okay, I'm ready.

[Oprah Winfrey]

All right, I'm ready.

[Jillian Turecki]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thanks, Tamara. Next we have Megan and Mike from Long Island. Megan and Mike are former clients of Jillian's, who worked with her for three years. Megan, you say Gillian saved your marriage. How'd she do that? Y'all are in different rooms or different cities?

[Jillian Turecki]

Different cities. Right now I'm in New York. He's in Las Vegas.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Jillian Turecki]

Great. Yeah. Jillian saved our marriage in so many ways. We were. When we started working with Jill, it was very much either we go for divorce or we try to fix this. We were that dire. It was kind of at a hit ahead in that. In that sense. And so when we started working with Jill, she did so much work on us really becoming a team. But I think for me personally, one of the biggest things we worked on was taking responsibility for my part in our issues instead of just putting a lot of the blame on Mike and really working on ourselves separately to then come back together and work on our marriage together. And I think that was something that I never really thought about. I just thought, we just need to fix this. He needs to fix these things versus we need to work on ourselves separately, too.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And, Mike, what was it like for you?

[Jillian Turecki]

Yeah, I mean, it started with that as we were working through. Started peeling off a lot of layers that I kind of swept under the rug. It came from a pretty hairy divorce that I never thought impacted me all that much. I was never hurting for anything, but I was neglected a lot emotionally. And I brought that into the marriage in a way that I never really understood until we started working with Jill and started peeling back those layers. And then I started kind of personal growth journey. And that's when Jill and I started working together more.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did you have a question today?

[Jillian Turecki]

Yeah. I as now that we have twin boys that are 114 months, what would your advice be on prioritizing our connection.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Our sex life, our intimacy to make.

[Jillian Turecki]

Sure we're staying in a. In a connected, in a good way. Have you hired a babysitter and just gone to a hotel for a night? I'm not that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Obviously not.

[C]

I would, I think for us, it.

[Jillian Turecki]

It'S been harder to. We've been with them every day, so separating from them now, this is the first time I've been away. I left two days ago and we haven't been away from them for more than six, eight hours. It doesn't have to be overnight. It can be five hours. It can be five hours where you go dinner, dancing, but don't stay the night and you get away and you have a night or an evening where it's just the two of you and you don't, it's, you don't just feel like mom and dad. This will work wonders.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jillian Turecki]

We've never thought of that. I think that's a great idea, actually. No, when we do go out and we do hire a babysitter, we'll go get dinner and we'll rush home, you know, and we're starting now that they're getting a little older, we're starting to trust people more and things like that. So I think that's a great idea that we didn't think of.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, I think so, too. I saw your face light up. You're like, whoa.

[Jillian Turecki]

Really?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. All right, well, glad we fixed that. Thanks. Thank you, guys. Appreciate you zooming in with us. Thank you so much.

[Jillian Turecki]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Time now for a quick break. When we come back, Gillian's insight on the role heartbreak plays in healing our relationship with ourselves.

[Jillian Turecki]

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[Oprah Winfrey]

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[Jillian Turecki]

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[Oprah Winfrey]

Welcome back to the Oprah Podcast. We're going to wrap things up with a new perspective on heartbreak. If you like what you heard today, I hope you'll share this podcast with someone you care about or who may be ready to hear it. The subtitle of your book is nine hard truths about love that will change your life. What would you say is the number one hard truth?

[Jillian Turecki]

You know what comes to my mind is probably the first one. Cause it's the title of the book which it begins with you. Begins with you because people immediately think, well then it's my fault. Or and we people usually straddle that line between blaming others or hyper blaming themselves. And so taking responsibility can either turn a perfectionist can take them down a wormhole or the person who's blaming someone else, they don't want to take responsibility. It begins with you. It just means that the you are the change that you wish to see in your love life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, that's number one. And that it's always there reflecting back to you what you actually always need to heal and fix for yourself.

[Jillian Turecki]

Yes, I love you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Say page nine. Every single heartbreak and disappointment we've ever endured was trying to teach us more about our fears, patterns and beliefs that have been sabotaging our chances of having a fulfilling relationship. So heartbreak is there to show you another way.

[Jillian Turecki]

It is the greatest lesson. It is the greatest lesson. And I think one of the most profound lessons I learned from heartbreak is just because someone's part in your story has ended, it does not mean your story has ended. You have a whole other story to continue in your life. And one of the hardest lessons that we will ever face as human beings is learning to accept when someone's part in our story is over. We don't like to let go. We like to hold on and nothing lasts. So even if you are, even if you stay in a relationship for decades, you're going to have to mourn, grieve people that they used to be because we are always evolving and changing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right. That's right.

[Jillian Turecki]

So even if it's the same relationship, you're going to have to let go over and over again.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And if you're in a relationship and there's no longer connection, you actually are not in relationship because connection is the single best thing that makes us feel whole.

[Jillian Turecki]

Absolutely. And I always say that relationships rarely end because of a lack of love. They more commonly end because people don't feel connected to each other. And they'll say, I love this. It's not about love. But I don't feel the connection that is, I don't feel seen, I don't feel understood, I don't feel heard. And yet connection. And when you're in a relationship, our priority has to be, how can I, in the small little ways every day, how can I create a bridge to this person?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it begins with you.

[Jillian Turecki]

And it begins with you creating that bridge.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Gillian's book, It Begins with youh is available wherever books are sold. And her podcast is called Jillian on Love. I thank you again for being my guest here.

[Jillian Turecki]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And thank you, Marianne and John and Tamara, Megan and Mike. Go well, everyone. You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.