Oprah’s Latest Pick, a Memoir About the Power of Telling Secrets

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Oprah Podcast Episode: Oprah’s Latest Pick, A Memoir About the Power of Telling Secrets
Release Date: March 11, 2025
Guest: Amy Griffin, Founder of G9 Ventures and Author of The Tell: A Memoir

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Oprah Podcast, host Oprah Winfrey engages in a heartfelt and transformative conversation with Amy Griffin, the founder of G9 Ventures and author of her latest memoir, The Tell: A Memoir. This episode delves deep into the themes of secrecy, trauma, healing, and the liberating power of sharing one’s story. Through candid discussions, Amy Griffin reveals her journey of confronting a long-buried secret, the impact of perfectionism, and the profound effects of telling her truth.

Amy Griffin’s Background

Amy Griffin is introduced as a financial visionary committed to supporting female founders, backing iconic brands like Goop, Bumble, Spanx, and Hello Sunshine. Her memoir, The Tell, marks her 112th book club pick and serves as a personal exploration of her painful past and the secret she has concealed for over three decades.

[02:36] Oprah Winfrey: "In her new memoir, The Tell, Amy confronts her painful past and unravels a secret she buried deep inside for over three decades, ultimately finding peace and freedom by writing her story."

Uncovering the Secret

The core of Amy’s memoir revolves around a deeply personal secret—her experience of child sexual abuse by a teacher during her middle and high school years. Amy shares how this revelation came to light through psychedelic-assisted therapy, leading her to take legal action against her abuser.

[07:20] Amy Griffin: "The secret that I discovered was the idea that I had been, for many years, abused in a school bathroom by a teacher."

Oprah commends Amy’s courage in sharing such a vulnerable story, emphasizing the importance of validation and liberation that comes from telling one’s truth.

[03:04] Oprah Winfrey: "You deserve to be validated."

The Role of Perfectionism

A significant theme in Amy’s story is her relentless pursuit of perfection. Growing up in Amarillo, Texas, where her family ran a chain of convenience stores, Amy excelled academically and athletically, earning a scholarship to the University of Virginia. Despite her outward success—a loving marriage, four healthy children, and a high-powered career—Amy reveals the internal struggle driven by perfectionism.

[27:02] Amy Griffin: "I was surviving, and that was looking perfect to the outside world."

Amy discusses how this quest for perfection was a coping mechanism to keep her traumatic experiences hidden, ultimately leading to physical and emotional exhaustion.

[28:19] Amy Griffin: "I mistook praise for love. If you could just keep building and keep hiding and keep making everything look perfect, then you wouldn't be found out."

The Impact of Trauma on Family

Amy’s journey is not just about her own healing but also about its ripple effects on her family. A pivotal moment occurs when her daughters confront her about her emotional absence, prompting Amy to reassess her life and priorities.

[13:13] Amy Griffin: "My daughters are my greatest teachers."

This moment of vulnerability with her children becomes a catalyst for Amy to further explore and address her suppressed memories and trauma.

[14:30] Amy Griffin: "If your children can't be a mirror to you, then, then who can?"

Healing through Telling

Central to Amy’s memoir is the concept of healing through storytelling. Through psychedelic-assisted therapy, Amy uncovers her repressed memories and begins the arduous process of sharing her experiences with those around her. This act of telling becomes a journey towards self-compassion and liberation.

[24:48] Amy Griffin: "When I did go to tell my girls, they didn't say why, how. They saw me. They just saw you."

Oprah highlights the profound impact of Amy’s transparency, noting the liberation that comes from shedding long-held secrets.

[62:11] Oprah Winfrey: "The Tell is about liberation."

Q&A: Audience Interactions

Audience Participant Sarah: Shares how reading Amy’s memoir prompted her to have serious conversations with her own daughters about sexual violence and grooming. Amy responds by expressing gratitude and emphasizing that while her parents did their best, the responsibility lies with the individuals to share their stories.

[41:10] Amy Griffin: "I want to make sure that they know that they are off the hook because they try to keep themselves on the hook for this."

Participant Casey: Asks about the role of vulnerability in relationships. Amy discusses the importance of instinct and choosing partners who support one’s healing journey.

[45:12] Amy Griffin: "Choosing John as your partner impacted your healing journey... instinct, leaning into instinct is something that's so important."

Participant Jessica: Inquires about coping mechanisms for everyday triggers post-trauma. Amy shares her strategies, including movement, hot baths, and open communication.

[51:28] Amy Griffin: "I have to go figure this out. I have to understand why she's telling me this."

Participant Heather: Questions how Amy’s story has impacted her sons and whether she has shared her experiences with them. Amy recounts her recent conversations aimed at fostering openness and trust.

[57:45] Amy Griffin: "You can tell them all of it. You can tell them everything I told you."

Participant I: Asks for advice for survivors without strong support systems. Amy emphasizes the importance of finding at least one trustworthy person to share their story with.

[60:29] Amy Griffin: "Find one person in their life and to know where that person is in their life."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Oprah and Amy reflecting on the journey of healing and the power of storytelling. Amy expresses profound freedom and gratitude for the connections forged through sharing her story, while Oprah underscores the importance of liberation through the act of telling.

[63:18] Amy Griffin: "I feel so free in this moment."

[63:39] Oprah Winfrey: "The Tell: A Memoir is available wherever books are sold..."

Amy’s memoir serves as a beacon of hope and a catalyst for meaningful conversations around trauma, secrets, and healing. The episode not only highlights her personal journey but also provides invaluable insights for listeners navigating their own paths to healing.

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Notable Quotes:

• Oprah Winfrey [03:04]: "You deserve to be validated."
• Amy Griffin [07:20]: "The secret that I discovered was the idea that I had been, for many years, abused in a school bathroom by a teacher."
• Amy Griffin [14:30]: "If your children can't be a mirror to you, then, then who can?"
• Oprah Winfrey [62:11]: "The Tell is about liberation."
• Amy Griffin [63:18]: "I feel so free in this moment."

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This episode of The Oprah Podcast offers a profound exploration of the human spirit’s resilience and the transformative power of honesty and vulnerability. Amy Griffin’s story is a testament to the strength required to confront one’s past and the healing that comes from sharing one’s truth with the world.

Transcript

[Oprah Winfrey]

I want you to know this conversation is not intended to offer medical advice. Psychedelics remain illegal in most states. So I encourage you to consult your own healthcare professional before considering any kind of mental health treatment.

[John Griffin]

Hey, everybody.

[Amy Griffin]

Guess who this is? Amy Gregory. Good to see you.

[John Griffin]

Chicagoans.

[Amy Griffin]

So good.

[John Griffin]

Hello to Amy. Amy. Say hello to Amy. Say hello to Amy. Thank you, Chicago. I'm excited for you to be able to share this story with the world.

[Amy Griffin]

Oprah, when you called.

[John Griffin]

Yeah. You were in the closet.

[Amy Griffin]

I was in the closet. I'd just gotten out of the bathtub. I was soaking wet.

[John Griffin]

Amy, this is Oprah calling you about the towel. Oh, my God.

[Amy Griffin]

I don't know that anyone ever expects that Oprah's going to call, but it was a beautifully very validating moment.

[John Griffin]

I will just say, well, I'm happy for that. All right, let us begin. You deserve to be validated. Let's begin. Hi, everybody. I'm so glad you joined us for Oprah's Book Club, presented by Starbucks. So I'm in my old Chicago neighborhood at a Starbucks cafe. And for almost 30 years, I lived like three blocks up the street. And I'm in such good company here. Chicago is truly my kind of town, and you readers are my kind of people. So welcome. Your neighborhood Starbucks store is, I believe, just the perfect place to gather with friends or discuss a good book and enjoy a delicious cup of coffee. And the pairing for our March book club pick is the Anniversary Blend. They're calling it. It's a seasonal full flavored coffee with notes of cedary spice and black truffle. I love some truffle, honey. Ew, me too. You can pick up a bag of Anniversary Bland at your local Starbucks store. Okay, so here is my 112th book club pick. It is called the Tell. The Tell A Memoir by Amy Griffin.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Amy Griffin is the founder of the investment firm G9 Ventures. She's a financial visionary supporting female founders.

[John Griffin]

Of iconic brands like Goop, Bumble Spanx, and hello Sunshine.

[Oprah Winfrey]

In her new memoir, the Tell, Amy confronts her painful past and unravels a secret she buried deep inside for over three decades, ultimately finding peace and freedom by writing her story. This conversation contains discussions about child sexual abuse and may be challenging or upsetting for some people. Listener and viewer discretion is advised. This is not a subject for young children.

[John Griffin]

May I say, well done. The courage it took to put this in writing and to then offer it to the world. You should be very proud of yourself. And I chose this book because I am so proud of you. I'm Proud of you for having the courage to speak your truth. And I know that your truth is going to liberate so many people. And you start the book by saying, this is a story, you say, of a secret, a secret kept for decades, one I had buried so deep I didn't even know it was there. Many of us carry secrets, things that we were told not to reveal or things we simply couldn't for fear of judgment or reprisal, or worst of all, for fear that if the people we love found out, they'd see us differently. Sometimes we keep secrets to survive, and then a moment arrives when the usefulness of the secret expires. Keeping it becomes the thing that hurts us. All we have to tell. So what is the secret you've come to tell?

[Amy Griffin]

Well, first, Oprah, I just want to say I'm so grateful. I have so much gratitude to be sitting here with you in this audience, because in its simplest form, the book is about telling. And sometimes it's the hardest thing to do. It's the hardest thing we do. But that's what we're doing right here, and that's what the book is. And I think, you know, the idea that we think secrets keep us safe, but they keep us stuck. And I really came to understand that.

[John Griffin]

I mean, and make us sick. That's why that you're as sick as your secrets is absolutely only as sick as your secrets. Yes.

[Amy Griffin]

And, you know, I had so many memories of standing in line to Starbucks when I was actually in the last few years as I was writing this book. And then I was in the process of doing all of this, that I was standing in line looking at the cake pops and everything in the background and thinking I'm about to tell someone my story. Because so many times my story was told over a cup of coffee. And so I have these intense memories of gathering my thoughts as to how I was going to tell someone my story. And the idea that the secret really, the secrets are really all memories. They're memories that come from the beautiful parts of my book, which is in the writing of my childhood, which I so loved. I loved writing about doing cartwheels in the field and catching ladybugs in a jar and all these memories that we all have from childhood and, you know, getting on my banana seat bike and riding off to take all of my friends to the convenience store which was close to our house, which was the convenience store that happened to be owned by my family, which was our family business and is our family business.

[John Griffin]

Amy grew up the oldest of four.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Children in Amarillo, Texas, where her family ran a chain of convenience stores called Tootin Totem. She describes her childhood in the Texas Panhandle as free, but at the same time, ruled by order.

[Amy Griffin]

This was where I got to be giving Toot and Totem. The Toot and Totem food store.

[John Griffin]

Cause you honk your horn in toot, and then they tote it out.

[Amy Griffin]

That's right.

[John Griffin]

Okay.

[Amy Griffin]

That's right.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

And, you know, that was where, in the beginning of my life, I got to be giving, I got to be loving. I got to bring my friends and say, everybody gets to get a Coke and one candy bar, and that's it. And then I went in, and the memories of childhood that I talk about in part of the book that are very difficult, that are childhood memories about deep childhood trauma that I've had to trust in myself to accept and to write about those, too, along with the memories that were so beautiful. And then I went about this crazy criminal investigation which you can read about, which talks about the secrets and can.

[John Griffin]

You articulate for the people who all of everybody here has read the book and they have questions. But there are millions. Thank you for being millions, who are watching us, who don't know what the secret is. So can you tell them what is the secret that you discovered?

[Amy Griffin]

Yes. Well, the secret that I discovered was the idea that I had been, for many years, abused in a school bathroom by a teacher. I decided that, you know, if I went in and I criminally investigated this person, and I did everything I could to hold this person accountable, that if I could do that, that I would show that I was right and he was wrong.

[John Griffin]

Okay, so you were abused by your middle school teacher for multiple years, even into high school, but you did not have a memory of it until much later in life. And we'll talk about how that memory came about. And once you discovered that memory of it, you wanted to go after him, because who wouldn't want to do that? And you were in pursuit of that.

[Amy Griffin]

And realized what the pursuit was something that I thought that I needed, because for many reasons. One, I knew I had to hold this person accountable so that he couldn't hurt anyone else. But also, I thought the criminal investigation and this pursuit of that would make me whole.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

It would take everything away from me, and it would prove like I'd done in so many other areas of my life, to say, I got this person. Look, I have validation right here that this person has been put away because of my efforts. And, you know, at the Same time that I'm pursuing this criminal investigation and the ups and downs of all of it that I'm writing about, I realized I'm also really looking inside myself and I'm investigating what I need from this. But I was running a parallel track at the same time, trying to do both.

[John Griffin]

Okay, you know, you start the book talking about how you're running, first of all, that you're a great runner.

[Amy Griffin]

We can see, not anymore, not anymore.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Excelling in academics and athletics, Amy earned.

[John Griffin]

A scholarship to play volleyball at the University of Virginia.

[Oprah Winfrey]

After graduation, she moved to New York City, landing a job in marketing for magazines like Ms. And Working Mother before moving on to Sports Illustrated. She continued to be an avid runner, an athlete.

[John Griffin]

We learn in the book that you're running, running, running, running, running all the time and that you know, you were an athlete and that it was one of the central driving forces in your life. You were literally physically running, but also running from one thing to the next all the time, often having multiple injuries. And at one point the therapist said to you, what is it your body is trying to tell you? So what is it that happened that absolutely stopped you in your tracks?

[Amy Griffin]

Well, I look at that conversation with the physical therapist and I think about the idea that she was talking about just, you know, asking, why do you push yourself so hard? Why now? Why this, why that? Why can't you slow down? And I look back at it now and I realize I was finally able to hear her. For her to say that to me, that your body is breaking down. I've had hip surgeries, back surgeries, I mean, every possible injury you could imagine. And it was this idea that I then turned to myself in hearing her to say, why am I not listening to the physical cues that my body is trying to tell me something?

[John Griffin]

You know, it's so interesting because people who know you, friends of yours, who say you were not just a runner physically, but that you literally, that they literally were like, why do you have to do everything? You need to just sit down, why can't you just relax? That you were always the person who was doing all the things, all the times. And in your 40s, you describe in the tell how it looked like certainly to those of us from the outside that you were living this picture perfect life. You were married to the love of your life, John. With four healthy children, Amy fell in.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Love and married her husband, John Griffin, the founder of Blue ridge Capital, in 2003. Together they have four children. 20 year old Jack, 18 year old Gracie, 15 year old Gigi and 12.

[John Griffin]

Year old Julian, they live in New York City. Hello, John. Amongst all these women here, four healthy children. You had a high powered career funding female founders, and you should have felt on top of the world. And yet you write, it was like my body knew something that I didn't. And as the years ticked forward, my body kept telling me to slow down. But you just couldn't. And you say at another point in the book, it looked like I had the perfect life. And yet. And yet. And yet, yes. Can you describe what was happening?

[Amy Griffin]

Well, I was never a sit by the pool girl. I was never, let's just sit by the pool and hang out. And I've tried to be that, but I just have never been that sit by the pool girl. But I think I realized, and I started to see these little, these little glimmers of the idea that I had and realizations that I had built up castles around me. I'd built up these castles in my life with this moat and this drawbridge, and there were a lot of alligators in that moat. And I was building and building and building. And it was much easier to always say, look at that person over there. But I think that I started to realize you've been running really hard, really fast for a long time, and you're missing something. Okay, you're not listening to yourself.

[John Griffin]

Okay, not only not listening to yourself. This is what's so interesting to me. So you have this picture perfect life, and all of your friends think your life is perfect, yet they know that you're the one who's always running around all the time. And one night you were confronted by your two daughters, which I thought was so powerful. Didn't you love that moment when the daughters say to her, they were young at the time. I think it was Gigi at the time. 11 years old. Right. And tell us what happened.

[Amy Griffin]

You know, they say your children are your greatest teachers.

[John Griffin]

Yes.

[Amy Griffin]

And in this case, and always in the case of my girls, and they're watching, going, yeah, I know, but I have to say that that night I went into Gigi's room and they, and both the girls called me in and I went in with Gigi and Gracie said, no, Gigi really needs, she needs to tell you something. And Gigi looked at me at 11 years old and she said, mom, you're there, but you're not really there. Where are you? And I turned into the child and I stormed out of the room. I slammed the door and John said, what happened in there? And I said, well, I Do everything for her. I do everything. I do all the planning, I do all the packing I have. Her life is perfect because of me.

[John Griffin]

But she said, mom, you're really nice. You're nice and you're not real, but you're not real. She said, mom, you're nice, but you're not real and you're not really there. Where are you? Which I would think, as a mother, would that not just pull you up? That would pull you up.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Amy Griffin]

I wanted to take that out of the book.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

But that's not honest.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

And that was the catalyst. If your children can't be a mirror to you, then, then who can? And that was a moment.

[John Griffin]

You could never take that out of the book. That's a main key part of the book.

[Amy Griffin]

Never. I could never have taken it out. But as a mother, to also know how hard it was to say it.

[John Griffin]

But also when your 11 year old child says that and she's with who was what, 13 at the time, when your daughters call you in for come to Jesus meeting about yourself, that has got to. That has got to stop you in your tracks and make you think what is going on? And what are they seeing or feeling that I'm not. Is that what happened?

[Amy Griffin]

100%. I mean, the parent child role had been reversed in that moment. And I actually had to stop and listen and say, you know, I have to go figure this out. I have to understand why she's telling me this. And it could have been the other way around, where the door could have stayed slammed and I could have said, no, you're going to just obey me and do what I say. Yeah, but I didn't. I didn't. I leaned in to recognize there was something within myself.

[John Griffin]

I mean, well, that's pretty powerful, I gotta say. That's pretty powerful for your daughters to do that. John, when she told you that, what'd you think?

[D]

I said, you need to listen to Gigi. She's speaking an important truth. And, you know, we have talked about as parents how we try and, you know, meet our children where they are. And this was a good example. And Amy went back in there and met her where she was. And it was very.

[John Griffin]

Okay, John, let me ask you this. What Gigi and Gracie brought up to their mom, had you sensed that or felt that too, with the running and the running and the running and the. What is. Yeah. Had you sensed that?

[D]

Yeah, she's much faster than I am. And there was a lot of running.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[D]

And it was running from something that I observed But I had no idea, you know, what it was or what it could be. But there was a relentless motion, a relentless restlessness. Restlessness turns towards perfection. Yeah, perfectionism.

[John Griffin]

Yeah. And around this time, I understand that you had started taking psychedelic assisted therapy for your own reasons. Correct. And you suggested that it may be helpful to her.

[D]

Yeah, and my way of doing that was just for her to meet the person, you know, I'd been working, working with. And it was like the clouds lifted and the sun came up. It was an immediate connection between Amy and the woman, and that started on. On her.

[John Griffin]

So you were taking. You were taking psychedelic assistant therapy to help you with whatever was going on with you, and you thought, well, honey, you should try this. Right. And what did you think when he first suggested it?

[Amy Griffin]

Well, for me, I had a little bit of distance from it, because everyone in my life knows that I really, you know, this for. This need for control and perfection. I don't like alcohol, and I don't like. I'd never seen illicit drugs. And this is something that I stay away from. I like to stay in control at all times. And so the idea that, you know, psychedelic assisted therapy, I had read so much about it for veterans and how veterans had used this. I actually also didn't realize that PTSD could refer to anyone other than someone who'd been in combat.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

And I think that was maybe me disassociating, in a way from that, because I just couldn't. I couldn't understand that.

[John Griffin]

Well, that's how most of us learned what PTSD was. So I remember when I opened my school in South Africa, and, you know, the girls were going through all this. What I thought was, like, what is happening? Dr. Bruce Perry said to me, I think your girls are suffering from ptsd. And I thought I said the same thing. Well, they haven't been to war. And he goes, poverty is war. Trauma is war. And so that's the first time I realized it, around 2006. Seven. Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

Well, I think that's one of the things I've really come to realize, too, even in the writing of this, that trauma is not just what happened to me, but there are parts of us, in all of us, that are broken, that we go in, if we can go in and just tell them and acknowledge them.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I thank you for joining me for Oprah's Book Club, presented by Starbucks. When we come back, Amy Griffin explains everything you may be wondering about her psychedelic assisted therapy experience, from who was with her to what pill she took and how long it Lasted. She'll go into detail of how it all went down. That's next. Welcome back to Oprah's Book Club, presented by Starbucks. I'm so glad you're here with us. I'm with author and investor Amy Griffin, whose book the tell is my 112th selection. Amy is talking about her use of psychedelic therapy and how it helped her uncover a traumatic experience from her childhood. A reminder. This conversation contains discussions about sexual abuse and may be challenging to hear. This is not a subject for young children. Since we'll be discussing psychedelics, I want you to also know this conversation is not intended to offer any kind of medical advice.

[John Griffin]

Well, the reason why I think the Tell is going to have such a profound effect on so many people is because when people live a life like you live, a very elevated, highly exposed, everything possible in the world, life growing up the way you did in Amarillo, riding around with your banana seat bicycle and going to the Tutin totem and having everything look and seem to be perfect. Except you didn't win Homecoming Queen.

[Amy Griffin]

I did not.

[John Griffin]

It's hard to believe that traumatic things happen to you because people think when you have money that you can't have sadness or trauma or difficulties or challenges. So what happened during your first session with the therapist? Well. And what psychedelic did you use?

[Amy Griffin]

And so just to also, to go back to what we were saying about, I used MDMA and the idea that I had seen other people in my life that had benefited from it and seeing how that, you know, I took note of that and I saw how John had talked about. We'd always. If we'd gone to dinner and someone had said, john, do you have siblings? He would say, no, I'm an only child. Which is true because John lost his sister to suicide many, many years ago. And then one night after John had had his experience, we went to dinner. Someone said, john, do you have any siblings? And he said, no, I'm an only. He said, no, I have. I'm sorry. I had a sister and she committed suicide. So the party line had changed. And I saw how he had changed and I thought, well, I want some. I want that. I need that honesty. And that is. That is why I decided, I think that there were. There were so many reasons why I decided to do what I did at that moment in time. And I think that was, you know, whether you believe in the divine God, you know, how it all comes together, I don't know. But in this moment, for me, it was the idea that I could no longer live with this secret, it was eating me up inside. It was. It was killing me. And so.

[John Griffin]

But you didn't know it. What? You had the secret. At the time, you didn't know you had the secret.

[Amy Griffin]

I didn't know.

[John Griffin]

You just knew it was something.

[Amy Griffin]

I didn't know the secret, but I did tell the practitioner that I knew I needed to really explore my childhood and sexual trauma.

[John Griffin]

You knew that?

[Amy Griffin]

I knew that, but I actually did not know what the trauma was. So when I went in to have the psychedelic assisted therapy session with a practitioner, there were so many reasons that set the stage, and I think it's so important for everyone to know this. That one I had, John. I had this incredibly loving, supportive relationship that I'd had for a long time. So there was safety there.

[John Griffin]

John.

[Amy Griffin]

John.

[John Griffin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

There was. No, I. This is. And this is really important. I think it's incredibly important to talk about the idea that my daughters were of the ages that I was when all the trauma happened to me. So that was happening at the same time. And then I also felt incredibly safe with the practitioner that I was working with. And so the setup was such that I was ready to go in and to give myself permission to take that pill. So it was more that going in to take the pill. For me, as someone who doesn't drink, who had never seen illicit drugs, to take that pill and allow myself to have the compassion for myself, to explore things that I could not talk about on this earth.

[John Griffin]

So what did you see in that session? We want to know what happens when you take the pill.

[Amy Griffin]

I know.

[John Griffin]

Explain it to us.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Are you lying down?

[John Griffin]

Are you sitting up? Or is somebody talking to you? We don't know what happens. What happens?

[Amy Griffin]

I was lying down on a couch.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

There was this beautiful flamenco music playing in the background. I put the eyeshades on, and I surrendered.

[John Griffin]

And the therapist is guiding you through it?

[Amy Griffin]

The therapist doesn't say one word.

[John Griffin]

Oh, the therapist doesn't say one word.

[Amy Griffin]

So you didn't say a word. But I could feel the connection with her, and I could feel that I. The connection with her was so strong, and the connection with John was so strong, and the connection with.

[John Griffin]

But John wasn't there.

[Amy Griffin]

John was not there. But all the people in my life, I feel like all roads led to this moment.

[John Griffin]

Okay, so you.

[Amy Griffin]

I took the pill.

[John Griffin]

You took the pill.

[Amy Griffin]

And in five minutes, I turned to the practitioner and I said, why is he here? Why is my teacher here? And then I said, I'm gonna tell you everything. And that Was it? That was the moment.

[John Griffin]

So then did you start talking and telling what you were seeing for eight hours? For eight hours.

[Amy Griffin]

For eight hours. I just said it. I told her every single scenario, every single instance of the abuse, one after the other. It was linear. It was this. It was. If I'm looking at this coffee cup, I would be able to tell you in 20 years exactly what the swirl of my, of my coffee milk looked like. It was reliving the experiences as I had them, but I was reliving the experiences in a way as such that I had so much compassion for myself. And I think it's so important to also say that I am not a doctor, I'm not a scientist, I have no medical background, but I am a one of one. And I could tell this story a thousand times over. And I remember it exactly as it happened. And I'm so grateful for that.

[John Griffin]

It was like you were put back in the room, in the space with the teacher. Now what is so when I was reading that, it sounded terrifying because there were so much violence involved. I mean, literally him putting your head in the toilet, literally him, you know, doing all kinds of horrible things to you, including, you know, his foot on your back at one time. How were you able to process this? You were lying there on the sofa with their eyes covered and you're telling this story. Does it feel like you're back in the space? Does it feel like you're in danger? Or does it feel like you're the observer of this thing?

[Amy Griffin]

Well, the first time that I had a session, I was the observer and I did not feel like I was in any danger because I already knew. I knew this, I was watching it instead. I had complete compassion for myself, complete love for that little girl that experienced it. It was like two sides of me met. That 12 year old side of me met the amy in her 40s and it was as if we embraced and no longer did I have to keep the secret. And it was also in that session that I realized that in many ways, and this is the real crux of all of it, that the secret is the hardest part with things. The secrets you're told to keep, they're not yours.

[John Griffin]

Yeah. So you have since talked to trauma therapists who explained to you why you would block this from your memory. And what did they tell you?

[Amy Griffin]

Well, I think that that's also a part of the journey and that's a lot of the writing too. In that, along with the idea that I was pursuing this criminal investigation, I'm also Pursuing this understanding of how could these memories be there and me not know about them. So I wanted to also perfect that, yeah, I wanted to have perfect answers. I wanted to have a perfect outcome. And so I did.

[John Griffin]

I said, but everything that's ever happened to us is in here. Is in here. Everything that's ever happened, we don't remember all the little day to day things that happened.

[Amy Griffin]

So what did she say over time? And I know that the subject of memory is always changing, but what I know in my memory is that, you know, there is storage and recall. And so all I can say to myself is I stored this memory and then I could only recall it once I was in the setting, in a place when it was time that my body was safe enough. There were 10 years where I really couldn't listen to myself. And I think it was as another form of the Running 4 Kids, Big Lie for me. I was surviving and that was looking perfect to the outside world.

[John Griffin]

Okay. One of the things that struck me in the book, and I think a lot of women go through this too, this whole idea of perfectionism, right? Having to be right about everything and doing everything right and it's perfect. There's a line that you used, I recall, where you said, I mistook praise for love. You thought getting praised was the same as being loved. And so when you get the trophy or when you're awarded the. Whatever the award is, and that's why not being homecoming queen was so devastating to you, because it's a form of praise. And you felt like, what did I do wrong?

[Amy Griffin]

It was a form of if you could just keep building and keep hiding and keep making everything look perfect, then you wouldn't be found out.

[John Griffin]

Yeah, well, I. Listen, I'm no doctor either, but I've done hundreds of shows now on abuse and have my own, you know, story of being sexually assaulted, raped at 9, and then continued on sexual abuse up until the time that I was 14. And I remember when I first told the story, everyone was like, well, why didn't you tell? Why didn't you tell? And I didn't tell because I knew it wasn't safe for me to tell. I knew that if I had told, I would have been blamed for it somehow. It would, it would have turned on me and I would have been held responsible. And in reading your book, the tell, I thought you were able to suppress it because you were. So this is just my theory. I don't know. What the therapist said is that you were able to suppress it because your life was built around praise and perfection. And that nothing that was happening with that teacher fit in with your idea of who you were as a person. And so that just couldn't be in your world. And somehow you managed to suppress that. And the striking thing in the book to me is the moment when your sister. There's this party they're having, and there's. There's one of your old babysitters is on the tape. What was that party was that party for?

[Amy Griffin]

It was the night before our rehearsal dinner for our wedding.

[John Griffin]

Okay. The night before the rehearsal dinner for the wedding. And your sister would put together this tape, and she's so proud of the tape. And she has one of your old babysitters. And in that tape, do you all remember this moment? The old babysitter talks about Amy always hiding her underwear. And I thought, whoa, whoa. And you had a really bad reaction to that, to that in the tape. And you were upset with your sister and said, you know what you said to your sister about it? Because during that time, you're hiding your underwear because of all that was going on. So even in that moment where the babysitter says, oh, yeah, Amy always To hide her underwear did that. The reason why it upset you was what?

[Amy Griffin]

First, can I also just say, I'm sorry for what happened to you?

[John Griffin]

Oh, thank you.

[Amy Griffin]

But, you know, I think that that's the realization as I look back, and that's part of the process that I went through in coming to understand that comment from my sister, who is the most loving human on the planet. And even then, the night, two nights before our wedding, with, you know, all the emotions being high of a wedding, I recognized, why am I reacting that way even then, 20 something years ago, but only in the reflection of it, after really diving in to go and do this processing, could I realize that was shame. That was the word shame. And in many ways, if you had asked me five years ago, in the life that I'd built around control and perfection and making everyone else happy, if I knew what the word shame was, I might have said no and turned around and walked off. Yeah, right.

[John Griffin]

So shame, it wasn't a part of your story.

[Amy Griffin]

Shame was not gonna be a part of my story. And. And also let me say, too, that in doing all this work, I can now go back and also look at the parts of me that I want to keep. And so I've been able to take those parts and recognize that leadership at its core, for me was something that I was told. I was a leader, I was groomed by this person to use something that was an intrinsic part of me to say, oh, you're a leader. You're a leader. Well, guess what? I got to go back and reflect on that and recognize who I was before all of this. And the two things that I come to are kindness and I'm a leader.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

And I can say that.

[John Griffin]

And you got that from your parents.

[Amy Griffin]

Because I get that from my parents.

[John Griffin]

Got that from your parents is what you said.

[Amy Griffin]

I get that from both my parents on both sides. I get that from my matriarchal grandmother who started the business of Tutin totem. I get that from an incredible father who is fierce and a hardworking and incredible businessman. And I get it from my mother, who is also, like my sister, the most loving, wonderful person on the planet.

[John Griffin]

Yeah. What's interesting, too, about that and about how you grew up is that you're a groomer. And, you know, everybody gets groomed. I mean, you know, I was doing the actual Oprah show talking to men who molested their daughters before I realized it actually wasn't my fault. When one of the men was talking about how he had worked for six months to be able to get close enough to his stepdaughter to rub up against her breasts, and that he had worked on touching her thighs and touching her in playing games. And then one day he was going for the breasts, he said, and if he got a reaction from her, then he would go to his wife first and say, I don't know why she reacted that way. And the daughter did say, what are you doing? And then he said, I left her alone, and I moved onto her sister. So in that conversation, I realized, oh, there was a plan. It wasn't my fault. There was a plan, and your teacher had a plan. And that day that you had lost the election for, was it student council or student president? And he knew that you were a strong leader, and he said. What did he say to you?

[Amy Griffin]

Well, Oprah, days after I had my first psychedelic assisted therapy session, John was standing in the room with me when I was in the bathtub. And I threw a bar of soap because I was 42. And I recognized. And I finally. I describe it as putting a puzzle above my head. The fuses. It was like the pieces snapped together. The entire. The corners, all of it came together in one place. And I threw the bar of soap, hurled it across the room, because I said, I understand how he got to me. And he said to me, he used the intrinsic part of me that I am a leader. He Told me, he said, you are the leader of this school. And this person, this trust, the word trust is, the idea of all of this is that I trusted this person. This wasn't a stranger, right? This was someone I trusted inherently, and someone who was also supposed to be shepherding me to become the best person that I could version myself.

[John Griffin]

Well, the thing is, he had his eyes on you. He already had his eyes on you. So when he said to you that you're the leader of this school, you're the real leader, that made you feel really validated. And so you go out of your way to prove that you are. So then you start staying later after school, and it's just you and him and volleyball coach or the gym teacher, whoever it was, and he sees that. And so as I'm reading this now, having come from the background that I do, he had his eye on you, had targeted you. And believe me, you're not the only one who was targeted. But at this particular time, you were targeted, and he was going after you no matter what. And the fact that you come from the background that you come from, he would have believed that you would not have told. And this is what I've learned for myself. And having interviewed done hundreds of these shows, I think by the time we finished the Oprah show, we'd done over 200 shows on, you know, victims of abuse, is if you don't tell the first time it happens, you're likely not to tell, because by the time it happens a second and third time, you think you're complicit, you're somehow, you caused it, or it's your fault, or you're making it happen, or. But if you don't tell the very first time, that's been my experience that it gets harder and harder to tell.

[Amy Griffin]

One of the things that's been really hard for me was in the telling, in this process, in the third part of the book, which is, you know, I say the second part is a crime novel that I go through, and it goes up, up and down all over the place. But the third part's in the telling. And I think it's really interesting as an observation that in many of the adults and family members and friends, when I went to tell them, their reaction was more of why, how in the adult brain, they wanted answers because they wanted to help me. But one of the most beautiful parts of all of this realization for me goes back to my daughters in that when I did go to tell my girls, they didn't say why, how. Why did we not know earlier. Instead, they said, we see you. They just said, we see you. We understand. We now know why you tried to be perfect. They validated me in the mind of a child, and I can see that connection now between how the adult brain and any adult can want an answer in one way and how children can just be present in the moment.

[John Griffin]

But let's just say I recall in the book you say, didn't he tell you that if you told anybody, they wouldn't believe you?

[Amy Griffin]

Many times, yeah.

[John Griffin]

And you believed him. Then you believed him and that inherently.

[Amy Griffin]

I wouldn't be loved. And to be told as a child that you will not be loved when isn't that the basis of what. Yeah, that's all that he's striving for is love.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Up next, Amy Griffin and I are about to take some very relatable questions from the audience. We'll hear from a mother who says after reading Amy's book the Tell, she sat down with her four daughters for a serious talk about sexual violence and grooming. Amy also shares her advice for parents. That's next. Welcome back to Oprah's Book Club, presented by Starbucks. Many parents today may worry about how to talk to their children about the dangers of grooming and sexual violence. That is why I thought it was important to have a conversation with author Amy Griffin, who shares her own experience of sexual abuse when she was a child. In her memoir the Tell. We're taking questions from our readers on how to have these honest conversations with children and with loved ones. A quick reminder, this subject is not suitable for young children and may be upsetting for some viewers and listeners.

[John Griffin]

Well, the audience has questions for you. Where's Sarah? Sarah, tell us what happened when you read this book.

[E]

I have four daughters and thank you for sharing your story. It touched me really deeply and terrified me with the statistic that you shared that one in three women experience sexual violence. I have a very open relationship with my girls, but it definitely prompted me to sit down with them, each of them, and have a How old are you girls? 11, 14, 18, and 19. And I sat down with each of them and had a conversation.

[Amy Griffin]

What had happened after reading the tell.

[E]

After reading the tell, this is Amy's story made me sit down with my girls and at different levels shared your story with them and talked to them about how this happens and that people can be groomers. And as we had the conversation, they looked at me and said, well, that would never happen. I would never let that happen. And I thought, okay, this is where I'M stuck. And this is where I ask you, what would the safety valve have been? What would you have wished that you had had that could have been your trigger to be safe? Or that someone could have said to you, because here are my girls thinking this can't happen to them. This would never happen. I'm too smart for that. But it sounds like you were also, and you had loving parents like I see myself. So I'm curious what your reaction would be.

[Amy Griffin]

Gosh, thank you for that question. It also gives me the opportunity to be able to say to my parents that I don't think that there is anything else that they could have done in this world to have changed what had happened. But also look where we are now. And the hope that I can help other people in sharing my story. And so I want to make sure that they know that they are off the hook because they try to keep themselves on the hook for this.

[John Griffin]

I'm sure your mother being the loving, kind person that she is, this would devastate your mother. I mean, not that your father wouldn't be too, but I'm sure it almost took your mother out, did it not?

[Amy Griffin]

It absolutely did. And I remember the next morning at breakfast and I promise I'll answer your question when the next morning at breakfast my mother said to me, I have to say to you, you told me so much last night, but I don't remember any of it. And I said, but that's just it. That's the whole point of this, is that it's too hard to hold.

[John Griffin]

I have to say though, that your ability to talk about your family and share your family in a way that allows us to see the connection to you but doesn't expose them in any way is, is that you did a really good job. That's why I say, well done. That's a hard thing to do. That's a hard thing to do because everybody gets to tell their own story or should be able to tell their own story. But I felt like we were brought into the family and understood it.

[Amy Griffin]

My best friend always says, make sure you let other everyone tell their own story like they're part of the story. And that was one of the things I realized in going to tell my family that. And it was the hardest part too. I had to say to them, I'm going to tell you something, but also I can't hold it for you, so I can't then come and mourn and grieve it with you. You have to mourn and grieve it and Then we can grieve in the relationship together. And that's part of the separation that I think that happens with the abuse. And so when I said, I don't know how I'm gonna tell my parents this, this is the hardest thing I can ever tell my parents. And I thought that would be the worst day of my life. But my dad turned to me and he said, after all of it, just stoic like. And I think you all read it, but I love saying the line, we might have missed the first part of your life in this way, but we're not going to miss the second half.

[John Griffin]

I love that. I love that.

[Amy Griffin]

And what I would say about your daughters is my children are right about the same age. And I would say that the word vulnerability comes to me and comes to mind in this idea that as parents, we think we have to be this authoritative figure, but really, it's breaking down those yes sirs, yes, ma'ams, that obedience piece of parenting, to just have those honest conversations with your children about vulnerability and giving them agency so that they know in those moments when something. They have a flicker in their brain that's not right, that they can come tell you.

[John Griffin]

And also, I would say this, that over the years, what I've learned, the word grooming is, you know, obviously a word that's a part of our culture, but I have found in so many cases, and certainly in mine also, that it's more about seduction. And so you are seduced before you know you're seduced. That's the thing. Those of you with young children, and particularly if you think, oh, my child would tell me it's challenging when you have been seduced and lured, particularly by somebody that you know and you trust. And that's why you need to have the conversation about it's not, you know, in Amy's case, there was a lot of violence involved and, you know, crudeness and horror, but in many cases, it isn't. It isn't. It is more of a seduction, and the child is lured, and before they know it, they think it's their fault because they're lured. And so you need to have that conversation also. Thank you. Sarah, Casey, you have a question.

[F]

Hi, Amy. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I'm honored to be here and to talk to you today. One of my favorite parts of the book was the gesture of wanting John's hand on your back during these moments of reckoning was just so powerful to read on the page. And so I'm wondering, how did the important life decision of choosing John as your partner impact your healing journey. And what advice would you want to give your readers about being vulnerable with their partner?

[Amy Griffin]

Oh, gosh, thank you. Well, to simplify my relationship with John is to say he puts his hand on my back and he just knows. There's a part about the book where I talk about long no and short yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, I love that part.

[John Griffin]

I meant to bring that up.

[Amy Griffin]

Long no, short yes in making, decision making. And this is, it's John's phrase, so I'm actually stealing it. But and with us, and I write about this, there's not a long no of dating. And then, okay, I guess we should get married. It was instantaneous. And I feel like I am so grateful that in this world that I've been given John, because through this relationship that we've built over so many years, I truly believe that was a, maybe one of the only reasons I was able to come around in this lifetime to be able to say what happened to me.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

And so I think, I think, I think instinct, though, and leaning into instinct is something that's so important even in just finding that right partner. Thank you.

[John Griffin]

John, can you explain to us the long no short yes philosophy? Because when I said that, I go, I'm going to remember this. I remember at one point because I had the same thing problem that you had. Anybody who's abused has had this issue of boundaries. Like you don't know how to set a boundary and you spend your lifetime trying to set the boundaries because you're trying to please everybody and make everything okay. So at one point when I was in here in Chicago, I had a little sign on my desk that says, remember what yes feels like. Because there is a feeling you get instantly from a yes. So when I read that your philosophy is long no short yes, I thought, I love that.

[D]

Well, the, the no part is just you keep putting it off and it doesn't feel right and it just doesn't fit. And it's just a very long, you know, journey to get to know. But the short yes is exactly what you said. I call it a full bodied yes yes. Like it's not just here where you.

[John Griffin]

Don'T have to think about it and. Let me call you later.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not doing pro con charts.

[John Griffin]

Yeah, I do that. Let me pray on it a minute. I'll get back to you. Yeah, it just feels like. Yeah.

[D]

And you feel it throughout, you know, your body. It's both an emotional and intellectual thing. And I've actually used it in various aspects of my life. But, yes, this was a full body. Yes. When I met Amy.

[John Griffin]

Full body. Yes. Maria, Hi.

[G]

Here's the story that I think is so interesting, and it's this theme of perfection. So for me, from the very beginning of the story to the very end, it's this thread of perfection and the difficulty of perfection. And I have the privilege of working with some extraordinary women leaders in Chicagoland. And I see this thread in all of them. This level of everything looks perfect sometimes from the outside, but everyone is dealing with various levels of trauma. And it doesn't have to be as profound and tragic as your trauma was, but people are dealing with experiences and trauma, and it's such a reminder of. We cannot judge others. We have to remember that everyone has experiences, and the experiences is what gives them life, is what makes them have a powerful and impactful life, but to give us grace. And so. Thank you.

[John Griffin]

Thank you. I think a lot of working moms relate to what you were saying, that you wore your busyness, you said, like a badge of honor. You all relate to that. You wore your busyness. That's what you're talking about too, right? You wore your busyness like a badge of honor. Has that changed for you?

[Amy Griffin]

It's definitely changed. I think John could tell you better. But I'm gonna say, you know, I've asked the people in my life, I think that there's more stillness. I can't run anymore, which is all for the better. But there are things that, you know, I've slowed down to recognize when I do something. I can understand why I do the things I do, why I am the way that I am. And I think it gives more of me. There's more of me for my relationships and my friendships and my parenting.

[John Griffin]

And so the girls, as you said, the girls didn't question why didn't you tell? Or all the other things that so many other people look at, but they were just there for you and saw you as a full person in that moment.

[Amy Griffin]

They never questioned. And I think the most important part about this book and in writing this book, that was when I wrote this book, I never knew that anyone would ever read this book. I never had an inkling that it would see the light of day. I wrote this book in my closet on the bathroom floor for myself. And I could say that in the early part of the writing, as it all unfolds, and with trauma like this, I'm sure you probably agree it unfolds in layers in a way much Like a book, like a chapter. And my book is not about just what happened to me. It's not the story of what actually happened to me. It's the processing of it. It's the telling of all the people in my life, which were in many ways more difficult than experiencing the trauma for myself, to have to go in and be honest with each person in my life and to recognize that every time you go to tell someone, they may be in a very different place than where you are. So in the cultivating of relationships, I talk about, you know, my life as this tapestry. And I have taken what was a tragedy and turned it into this tapestry of relationships for which I'm immensely grateful. But in each one of those relationships, as I was building this quilt, I had to go and pull those threads and tell people what had gone on. And that was a real blessing.

[John Griffin]

Chantel, it's your birthday, and I know you have a question. First of all, let's all say happy birthday to you. Chantelle, that was beautiful.

[Amy Griffin]

Thank you.

[John Griffin]

Thank you so much for sharing your story, Amy.

[Amy Griffin]

I truly feel empowered. And it was really just reading your experience and how you continually process it, understanding that healing is a journey. I just want to know from you, how do you manage everyday triggers? Well, practically, I listened to Fortnite by Taylor Swift on repeat a thousand times. Anything by Taylor Swift. And then I will say, also, I still. Movement is still really important for me. But it's slow, it's gentle. It's maybe back to what that therapist, that physical therapist said to me, why do you move so fast? And so now in this recognition, there is movement. There are lots of hot baths. I think that everything that I come up with creatively comes from being in the bathtub when the water is running. And my brain is. Me, too. Really? Yes. So when the bathtub gets filled out, you even open it up a little bit and let the water keep running. Yes. And it's like it opens up that valve of creativity for me.

[John Griffin]

I had to do something recently, and Gayle goes, go sit in the tub. Go sit in the tub. Run some water. It's true.

[Amy Griffin]

My mom would either say, go take a bath, or, could you please go for a run? Because my mom knows me so well, and so I would say that. But I would also say that when there are those everyday triggers that instead of going, why did I do that? I go tell someone and I share it. And it's not as scary once I go and I tell someone, and then I can see in their eyes, you know, they can hold it for me. And that's how I've coped.

[John Griffin]

Thank you. Happy birthday, Shannon.

[Amy Griffin]

My question as I was reading through.

[H]

The book is what is something that.

[E]

You gained that you did not expect.

[John Griffin]

From writing the book? Good. Shannon, what did you gain?

[Amy Griffin]

Well, one, just from the writing vulnerability, just purely understanding that vulnerability is actually equates to me as powerful. Now I, I like, I sense so much power and vulnerability and I appreciate that because it makes me so much more reachable with everyone in my life and both in my business and the founders that I get to work with and my children and my husband. And the other thing from the book, piece of it, I have to say that another author friend said to me, amy, the publishing of a book is one thing and your ego can get involved and you can care about the book coming out, but you have to remember the book is all about the people that you will meet along the way. Now, never could I have imagined.

[John Griffin]

There.

[Amy Griffin]

I was along the Oprah. But as I sat the woman who was my practitioner when I had my MDMA session, she would say often to me, amy, the end is glorious. There is something glorious waiting on the other side of this process you're going through. This was the glorious ending that she would have never anticipated that I was sitting here with you, able to tell this story and share it with so many other people, coming from the words that I put on the page just for myself and then in realizing the deeper connection that I could have in telling one person that's right, another person.

[John Griffin]

And then she's now telling her daughters and that they're telling their friends and that is what it means to pass it on. Maggie, thank you.

[I]

So I am a survivor as well, so thank you so much for sharing your story. It was deeply impactful for me in the first few months following my assault. I think what would have been so helpful is to understand how much self doubt would play a piece in all of this. And really I think what would have been helpful is kind of something that I could hold onto to really work through that self doubt. And I'm just curious what you would tell somebody who's maybe in those first few moments after, you know, their abuse or their assault. And they're really trying to focus on this healing journey, which is lifelong, of course, but they just want something that they can do to really instill that trust in themselves again and trust their intuition more so too. So I'd love to know your thoughts on that.

[Amy Griffin]

Well, first I'm focused on saying I'm sorry And thank you for being here in the front row to look me in the eye and share and tell. And I would say that I think one of the most important things is, which is in all the running, you know, in the book, I talk about this lawyer that I had to work with in Amarillo named Duke, who kept saying, you need to slow down. You need to slow down. And it infuriated me. Even though he was responding to the criminal investigation, he was saying I needed to slow down. And as mad as I was at that process, I think the idea that it is a process and that for, you know, you see me in this dress today and you see my husband, we're sitting here, we have prepared to come on the OPRAH show. But there are many, many moments where it was bleak and dark, and it's okay. And in a way, I don't. I would never say I missed those moments, but I'm grateful that I had them because it makes me understand myself better, and I'm so connected to myself and those memories of those days where it wasn't going so great. So it's slow. Just take it slow. And that's what I would say that to take it slow and to write it down.

[John Griffin]

And to write it down.

[J]

Hi, Amy. My name is Heather, and thank you for sharing your story and being so vulnerable as a mom. I have three daughters, and they're actually the same age that you were when you went through this. 17, 15 and 12. And I'm raising them in the south in a suburb. And so I saw a lot of terrifying parallels in your story. The expectation of perfection, how you should behave in society, Southern belles, all of those things. So my question to you is to shift those perspectives. It has to start with our young men as well. How has your story impacted your sons? And have you shared your story with your youngest son yet?

[Amy Griffin]

Wow. That's a gift of a question, because two nights ago, I went into our youngest bedroom and I said, julian, you know, I just thought about something, and I thought about the idea that the word that I went into his room thinking about was consent. And I said, you know, I realized that you were seven when I started writing this book. And like any parent, a few years ago, I did tell him my story. And I did it. I had consulted every parenting manual, and I sat. You know, they say, do it where you're sitting at a deli counter or where you're driving or where you're doing something with them. And in my case, I told him the story when I was doing A puzzle with him. And he kind of shook his head. Okay, got it. Do you want to ask any more questions? No. And then I left it. And two nights ago, when I was back in his bedroom, I went and I said, you know, I have to tell you something. I'm about to go on the Oprah show, and I just want to make sure that you know that. Has anyone asked you about my book? Because it's coming out. People are talking about it. And he said, yeah, a few of my friends have. And I said, well, what do you tell them? He said, I tell them it's about memories and your life. And I looked at him and I said, but guess what? You can tell them whatever you want. You can tell them all of it. You can tell them everything I told you. You can tell them how you feel about it, and you can tell them that maybe this story might help them. And he said, okay, Mom. And then he said, and now I'm ready to read it, because he's old enough to read the story.

[John Griffin]

How old is he now?

[Amy Griffin]

He's 12.

[John Griffin]

12. Wow. Jessica. Yeah. Okay.

[H]

Hi, Amy. I want to thank you so much for telling your story. You are so brave for so many reasons. But to not only tell, but to write a book about it and share it with the world is truly courageous. It's inspirational and gives a voice to so many survivors. I myself am a survivor of sexual assault. I am a clinical social worker, so I work with many survivors. And I also have so many close friends because of how pervasive this issue is. And oftentimes, more often than not, survivors are shamed or discouraged from coming forward and telling their story. And in the book, you mentioned how fortunate you were to have such a strong support system and to have the means to access the resources that you needed in this process on this healing journey. And so my question to you is, for survivors who don't have strong support systems and don't have the means to access these resources, what advice would you give to them on where to begin and how to really embark on this journey?

[Amy Griffin]

Well, thank you. And thank you for the work you're doing to also now pay it forward after your experience. You know, that's what also, in writing this book and realizing that I have so many resources and I tapped into all of them. I read every possible book. I tried every possible therapy. I was going to work my way out of this in many ways. And I think what came down to the writing of this book and the whole meaning of this book is that it's in the tell. And so resources are not. I just hope that every person who's been through something like this or has any kind of broken part of them can find one person in their life and to know where that person is in their life. But to be able to go to them and trust them with their story and have them hold it and repeat it back and have the conversations back and forth, that's the start, and that's what has to happen. And I think when I envision this book, I envision that people take the book and they pass it openly to a friend at a cafe, at a Starbucks. They don't have to hide it anymore. They pass the book and they say, just read this. And then I hope that this book will sit on nightstands, and then people will read it and refer back to it. My dream is that in 10 years, someone will write me and say, hey, I just have to tell you something. This book held me so much, it changed my life. And that they pulled one passage out of it, and then that will be reason enough for me to have written the book.

[John Griffin]

I think you have reason enough already. I think the fact that she's sitting down with her daughters and having the conversation, and everybody leaving here who has read the book is gonna have a conversation with somebody else. You're already doing it. And I thank you so much, as I said in the beginning, for having the courage. And I just want to second what you just said, that every time you tell the story, you find somebody who is worthy of your trust, who's worthy of your trust. And I know that if we have this many women in a room, and the stats are 1 out of 3, there are a lot of us who have stories to tell about what has happened. And you find just one person, as Amy was saying, just one person. And the more you tell it, the more you release. And the whole goal is freedom for yourself, is liberation. The tell is about liberation. And I wanted to ask you, do you finally feel free?

[Amy Griffin]

I feel so free in this moment. I felt free since the minute I said the words to John. When he came down after my session. It was the most liberating moment of my life, Oprah. It was other than the days that you go into a hospital room and you have a baby and you come out with three people.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

Or the day that I jumped up and down at the altar from my volleyball days. I was jumping up and down to marry him. It was while on one end, the hardest day of my life. It was also the most liberating day of my life. And so I feel so much freedom. And I want to say that, you know, the person who really cares about this freedom is the 12 year old me. And the real conversation, the telling that has to happen, that happened along the way in the writing of this book was the telling to my 12 year old self, he did not dim your light. And for that 12 year old self to then say back, you didn't let him dim your light. You don't have to show up sad at the Oprah show.

[John Griffin]

Yeah.

[Amy Griffin]

And that is pure freedom.

[John Griffin]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The gift of liberation. Lainey Griffin the Tell A Memoir is.

[John Griffin]

Available wherever books are sold and I hope this episode inspires all of you who are watching or listening to read the Tell and share it with a loved one or audience. Thank you for your really thoughtful questions and thanks to our extraordinary partner Starbucks for supporting us. I love the idea of good coffee and good books and good company all coming together at your neighborhood Starbucks Cafe. And the pairing this month, as I said, is the anniversary blend. And we hope you all join our community and become a part of all of our conversations on the Oprah Podcast. Subscribe to the show on YouTube and follow us on Spotify or Apple podcasts or wherever you listen or watch us here on YouTube. Go well everybody. Thank you, Amy, thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I want you to know this conversation is not intended to offer medical advice. Psychedelics remain illegal in most states, so I encourage you to consult your own healthcare professional before considering any kind of mental health treatment.