The Oprah Podcast

Episode: “Your Brain on Revenge” with Oprah and James Kimmel, Jr.
Date: January 20, 2026
Host: Oprah Winfrey
Guest: James Kimmel, Jr. (Yale School of Medicine, Author of The Science of Revenge)

Episode Overview

This episode features a powerful and candid conversation about the science and psychology of revenge. With live audience participation, Oprah and Yale researcher James Kimmel, Jr. explore why the desire for revenge is so potent, how it functions in the brain much like an addiction, and, ultimately, how forgiveness can serve as a tool for healing and breaking the cycle of violence and self-destruction. Through personal stories—from the tragic to the everyday—listeners are guided through the emotional landscape of revenge and are offered practical insights into overcoming its grip.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Drives the Desire for Revenge?

[00:38 - 02:35]

• Oprah underscores the prevalence of senseless violence and introduces the core theme: the universal human condition at the root of violence—revenge.
• Audience members suggest possible causes: insecurities, fear, anger, hatred—all of which connect to grievance.
• James Kimmel, Jr. explains:
  “Revenge is always triggered by a grievance, a perception of being wronged or mistreated.” [02:35]
  He frames revenge as a deeply embedded biological response to perceived harm.

2. James Kimmel, Jr.'s Personal Story

[03:58 - 10:22]

• Kimmel recounts being bullied as a teen, culminating in the murder of his pet dog and the destruction of his family’s mailbox.
• The trauma led him to a breaking point where he nearly committed violence in retaliation:
  “At the last second, I had this very brief insight that if I went through with what I wanted to do, the guy who drove down that road that night would not be the same guy who drove back.” [08:47]
• He chose not to act, recognizing the lifelong consequences.

3. Revenge as an Addiction

[12:18 - 15:58]

• Kimmel posits:
  “Compulsive revenge seeking is an addiction and a brain disease.” [12:45]
• The brain’s response to grievance mirrors addiction to substances—activating both the pain network and the pleasure/reward circuitry (nucleus accumbens and dorsal striatum).
  • “In brain scans, your brain on revenge actually looks like your brain on drugs.” [13:24]
• Not everyone who feels wronged acts on revenge impulses; about 20% do—matching addiction statistics for substance abuse. [16:43]

4. Why Do We Seek Revenge?

[11:26 - 12:45; 16:43 - 18:49]

• Oprah:
  “Why is it that we want to hurt the people who hurt us? That's a brain thing, right?” [11:26]
• Kimmel:
  “Almost 100% of people want revenge when they've been wronged... Only about 20% say they've acted on those desires. That 20% is an important number because that's about the same number who become addicted to alcohol or narcotics.” [16:43]
• The inability to resist these urges, despite knowledge of negative consequences, defines revenge addiction.

5. Forgiveness as a Solution

[24:42 - 30:26]

• Kimmel introduces the “Miracle Court”– a role-play trial app to process grievances and foster forgiveness.
  “Just as we are hardwired to get revenge, we are also hardwired to heal ourselves through the process of forgiveness.” [24:42]
• Forgiveness is presented not as absolution for the offender, but as vital self-healing:
  • Oprah:
    “Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could be any different.” [26:11]
  • Kimmel:
    “Forgiveness, it turns out, is a wonder drug or a human superpower that we don't really even know almost anything about... It benefits you as the victim.” [25:04]

6. Audience Stories: Real Life Revenge & Healing

Multiple Segments

a. Anna's Dog Killed by Neighbor

[26:48 - 32:33]

• Anna’s neighbor shot her dog; despite craving justice, she struggled with living next door to him, seeking solace through seeking public accountability.

b. Courtney’s Relationship Betrayal

[33:39 - 38:41]

• After discovering her boyfriend’s infidelity, Courtney burned his belongings and posted humiliating fliers:
  • Courtney:
    “While I was doing it? I felt exhilarated... It’s an addiction.” [36:25]
  • Oprah:
    “The moment you get in the car and you go to look to see where he is, you should be checking yourself in somewhere.” [35:44]
• James notes this as classic "revenge addiction."
  • Kimmel:
    “One of the most powerful and direct ways is to forgive it as fast as you can... to move him out of living inside your head.” [38:56]

c. Leonard’s Family Trauma

[41:04 - 44:48]

• Leonard, after his sister was brutally attacked, was stopped by an empathetic cop:
  • Cop:
    “Do you have to kill him today?” [43:16]
  • Leonard channeled this moment into a career helping others avoid cycles of retaliation.

d. Scarlet: Mother Who Lost Son at Sandy Hook

[45:17 - 52:10]

• Scarlet forgave her son's killer, motivated by faith and her desire to model resilience for her surviving child:
  • Scarlet:
    “Forgiveness was the most powerful choice that I made in that moment towards my own personal healing and setting an example for my son.” [47:45]
  • Her nonprofit (Choose Love Movement) helps children address the roots of violent grievances.

e. Belinda: Recovering Revenge Addict

[52:17 - 56:54]

• Pediatrician Belinda shares how lifelong rage and grievance responses (linked to family and cultural expectations) led to health crises. She credits her eventual recovery to recognizing her patterns and intentionally choosing healing strategies.

7. Cultural and Psychological Dimensions

[54:42 - 55:27]

• Cultural upbringing and repression can amplify revenge addiction (Belinda’s story).
• Kimmel notes non-violent revenge (workplace sabotage, public shaming, psychological harm) is equally toxic.

8. The Grievance vs. The Urge

[57:57 - 59:25]

• Kimmel clarifies that the grievance is only a trigger; the real driver is how the brain processes the urge to retaliate:
  • “The motive is what the grievance does inside your brain to activate this desire to retaliate.”

9. Addiction, Forgiveness, and Moving On

[59:45 - 60:39]

• Not all people become “revenge addicts,” but all are susceptible to the urge.
• Scarlet is held up as a “living miracle” for her ability to forgive such profound harm.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• James Kimmel, Jr.:

  • “Revenge is the author of tragedy and the destroyer of peace and happiness. It is the root motivation behind most forms of human aggression and violence.” [11:26]
  • “In brain scans, your brain on revenge actually looks like your brain on drugs.” [13:24]
  • “Just as we are hardwired to get revenge, we are also hardwired to heal ourselves through the process of forgiveness.” [24:44]

• Oprah Winfrey:

  • “Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could be any different.” [26:11]
  • “You forgive for yourself... not for the other person.” [30:14]

• Courtney (audience):

  • “While I was doing it? I felt exhilarated... It’s an addiction.” [36:25]

• Leonard (audience):

  • Police officer: “Do you have to kill him today?” [43:16]
  • “He did occupy space in my head my entire undergrad in college... I didn’t even forgive myself for letting him take up so much space.” [61:45]

• Scarlet (Sandy Hook mother):

  • “Forgiveness was the most powerful choice that I made in that moment towards my own personal healing and setting an example for my son.” [47:45]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Revenge as the Root of Violence | 00:38 – 02:35
• James Kimmel's Personal Story | 03:58 – 10:22
• Revenge and Addiction in the Brain | 12:18 – 15:58
• Miracle Court: Role-Play Forgiveness Tool | 24:42 – 26:11
• Anna’s Story – Dog Killed by Neighbor | 26:48 – 32:33
• Courtney’s Story – Relationship Betrayal | 33:39 – 38:41
• Leonard’s Story – Family Trauma and Police Intervention | 41:04 – 44:48
• Scarlet’s Story – Forgiveness After Sandy Hook | 45:17 – 52:10
• Belinda’s Story – Health and Rage | 52:17 – 56:54

Summary Takeaways

• The impulse for revenge is universal and biologically rooted but becomes maladaptive and destructive when compulsive.
• Only a subset of people lose control over these urges; for them, revenge operates like an addiction.
• Forgiveness, rather than excusing offenders, is a tool to reclaim self-healing and release oneself from the “addiction” of revenge.
• Personal narratives highlight the high stakes: revenge cycles can lead to violence, lifelong pain, or, conversely, profound healing and transformation.
• Understanding the addictive nature of revenge, and nurturing forgiveness, may be crucial steps toward reducing violence at every level—from the individual to the societal.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to understand their own urges for justice or payback, and those looking to break free from the cycle of grievance.