Your Life Changes When Your Beliefs Do with Shawn Achor and Oprah

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Oprah Podcast
Episode: Your Life Changes When Your Beliefs Do
Guests: Oprah Winfrey & Shawn Achor
Date: July 14, 2026

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Overview

This episode of The Oprah Podcast centers on the transformative power of beliefs and how changing them can profoundly impact one’s life. Oprah sits down with renowned positive psychology researcher Shawn Achor to discuss insights from his latest book, The Power of Beliefs: How Strengthening Seven Core Beliefs Predicts Greater Success and a Better Life. Together, they explore why belief shapes not only our perception but also the reality of our outcomes—covering personal stories, scientific research, core belief frameworks, and actionable advice for listeners seeking hope, healing, and new possibility.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Definition of Belief

• Belief as a Lens:
  • Shawn Achor defines belief as "the lens through which you view the world" (00:45, 08:38).
  • Beliefs aren't just internal thoughts; they actively predict and shape what happens next in our lives.
• Unique to Humanity:
  • AI can forecast probabilities, but only humans can "believe" in possibility beyond the odds (08:50).

“AI can't believe you will ever beat the odds… That’s uniquely human because that requires willpower and hope and this quiet fire that says my behavior still matters.” – Shawn Achor (08:50)

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2. Oprah’s Personal Story: Belief as a Guiding Principle

• Oprah reflects on her journey “from Kosciusko Dirt Road, Mississippi to here” (02:23), attributing her success to her core belief: that she is “God’s child” and is destined for more (03:05).
• She emphasizes that what you truly believe is possible becomes the ceiling of your achievement.

“You do not become what you wish for. You do not become what you want. You do not become even what you aspire to. You become exactly what you believe is possible.” – Oprah Winfrey (02:57)

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3. The Science of Self-Limiting and Expansive Beliefs

• Stereotype Threat:
  • Cited research showing that priming students with negative stereotypes about their group lowers performance, but a small group actually excels, driven by a “signature belief” in themselves (11:00).
• Beliefs are Real—even if Untrue:
  • Even false beliefs can manifest real-life consequences (27:38).

“Beliefs are real even if they’re not true… That belief is not true, but it’s real. It creates real effects.” – Shawn Achor (27:38)

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4. Seven Core Beliefs & Their Impact

Shawn Achor’s book outlines seven foundational beliefs, with the episode diving deep into four:

a) My Behavior Matters

• If you believe your actions matter, outcomes change for the better (14:07, 15:43).
• Scientific studies: Cancer patients with this belief are more likely to take healthy actions and have better results (15:42).

b) Gratitude

• Gratitude shifts brain function, leading to improved happiness, health, creativity, and even intelligence (18:34, 19:35).
• Oprah has kept a gratitude journal since 1992, cementing it as her “religion” for joy and presence (19:39).

“If you can’t think of anything to be grateful for, just listen to yourself breathe—that you have breath.” – Oprah Winfrey (18:15)

c) I Matter (Self-Worth)

• Moments of reassurance (“Was that okay?”) underline the deep human need to feel we matter (31:08).
• Encouraged to act as “messengers” to affirm others’ value (31:41).

d) I Have Something to Give

• Everyone has something to contribute, regardless of circumstances or abundance (32:23).
• The Good Samaritan Study: When individuals believe they "have enough" (even just time), they’re more likely to help others (32:30).
• Shifting your job role from a task to a “service mindset” transforms both your fulfillment and your impact (36:01).

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5. Transformation Through Social Connection and Identity

• Isolation amplifies perceived challenges; support from others reduces them, even physically (41:00).
• Core predictor for happiness and success: not self-help, but strong social connection (42:20).
• Changing identity—e.g., from “I am a smoker” to “I am not a smoker,” or “I am a hiker”—transforms actions and perspectives (54:04, 59:35).

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6. The Ascending Power of Placebo and Belief in Science

• Placebo effect’s power is increasing, not declining, across various health studies (49:17).
• The very act of believing (even in a “fake” treatment) can double the healing benefit over time (50:00).

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7. Belief in Something Greater

• Openness to spiritual/worldview beliefs (“There is something greater than me”) powerfully correlates with increased happiness, resilience, joy, and social connection (62:22).
• Such beliefs activate and strengthen other positive beliefs.

“When we believe that there’s something greater than us, it pushes us to become greater than ourselves.” – Shawn Achor (64:47)

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8. Audience Engagement & Real Life Stories

• Viral TikTok stories and real listener voices powerfully illustrate how shared vulnerability and belief in healing can lift individuals from crisis to growth (37:43, 39:25).
• Example of school system transformation: teachers’ changed beliefs improved whole communities (46:38, 48:12).

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9. On Changing Entrenched Beliefs and Identity

• Belief change can be incremental (as in traditional Buddhist thought) or sudden (a la Zen Buddhism, or through dramatic life events) (61:16).
• Oprah and Shawn both share how core beliefs redefined their trajectories and opened new paths.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Becoming What You Believe:
  “You do not become what you wish for… You become exactly what you believe is possible.” – Oprah Winfrey (02:57)
• On the Uniqueness of Human Belief:
  “AI can't believe you will ever beat the odds… That’s uniquely human.” – Shawn Achor (08:50)
• On the Power of Messenger Moments:
  “That guy was an angel because he delivered a message to my brain right when I needed to hear it.” – Shawn Achor (31:38)
• On Service:
  “If you shift the idea… to how do I use this thing that I’m doing as an offering in service to someone, it changes it.” – Oprah Winfrey (36:01)
• On the Expanding Placebo Effect:
  “The power of belief is actually ascending.” – Shawn Achor (52:21)
• On Social Connection:
  “The greatest predictor of long term levels of happiness and success is your social connection score.” – Shawn Achor (42:20)
• On Spiritual Belief:
  “When we believe that there’s something greater than us, it pushes us to become greater than ourselves.” – Shawn Achor (64:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Personal Core Belief Stories: 03:05 – 07:19
• Defining ‘Belief’: 00:45; 08:35 – 08:50
• The Impact of Negative/Self-Limiting Belief: 08:50 – 11:55
• Stereotype Threat & Signature Beliefs: 10:14 – 11:56
• Gratitude & Its Benefits: 18:15 – 20:13; 20:59 – 21:47
• The Power of Social Connection: 41:00 – 43:24
• Changing Identity and Beliefs: 54:04 – 60:13
• Placebo & Power of Belief in Medicine: 49:17 – 52:21
• Belief in Something Greater: 62:22 – 64:47

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Actionable Reflections and Oprah’s Closing Wisdom

• Self-Examination:
  Oprah urges listeners feeling stuck to ask: “What do I believe is true or possible for me?” (61:45)
• Strengthening Belief:
  If your beliefs are holding you back, focus on shifting them, especially towards gratitude, self-worth, and service.
• Purpose:
  Ultimately, “your job is to know why you’re here… Every one of us is here for the offering we have to give each other.” (66:02, paraphrase)

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Final Takeaway

The beliefs you hold—about yourself, what’s possible, your worth, and the nature of the world—are not just inert ideas. They are the very building blocks of your lived experience and future. By cultivating empowering beliefs, practicing gratitude, nurturing connection, serving others, and opening to something greater, you shift what is possible in your life and for those around you.

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Transcript

[Oprah Winfrey]

This episode of the Oprah podcast is

[Podcast Announcer]

presented by our fantastic partners at the Farmer's Dog.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We saw a TikTok with 17 million views of a young woman who was crashing out.

[Nicole]

You want me to be honest? I'm angry.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm mad.

[Nicole]

I'm mad because I care more about you than you care about me. And no matter how much I try to let go of it and give it to God, it's still so heavy.

[Simone]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You were having a day.

[Simone]

I was.

[Daley]

You were having a day. I was.

[Sean Achor]

Beliefs are more powerful than I think we give them credit for.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You wrote a whole book.

[Sean Achor]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You give them a lot of credit.

[Sean Achor]

I. I'm a big fan of this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're actually giving them a lot of credit.

[Sean Achor]

There's lots of definitions of belief. Mine is just a simple one. It's the lens through which you view the world.

[Daley]

What advice do you have to this generation of people who are dating who have no belief that finding true love is real?

[Oprah Winfrey]

That question is going to him, not to me. I know this for you do not become what you wish for. You do not become what you want. You do not become even what you aspire to. You become exactly what you believe is possible. Okay, so Forbes was doing a list on 250 of the greatest self made people in the country. And guess who's number one. Now I usually don't, honest to goodness, I usually don't care about these things. Cause a person just sent me, another person who's on the list who sent me the list. And they said, oh, I'm so happy to be on this list with you. And I said, what list is it? Oh, it's the Forbes list now. But what's great about this list, it's about the people who are the self made people in the country. And also one of the way they measured it is the distance that you've come from where you were to where you are. And this makes me want to cry

[Nicole]

because

[Oprah Winfrey]

it is such a long way from Kosciusko Dirt Road, Mississippi to hear. It's like, it's like it's another planet. Born to a teen mother, poverty, Ms. racism, misogynism, sexism, all of that stuff. But I will tell you this, that's why this show is so important. It never occurred to me in all the successes that I've had that I wouldn't be successful. Never occurred to me that I wouldn't be successful. And the reason it never occurred to me is because of what we're talking

[Podcast Announcer]

about today, your beliefs.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because from the time I was that little girl in rural Mississippi on my grandmother's back porch, screen porch. And her y' all who know me know you've heard this story. She was hanging out the clothes on the line because she was a domestic worker and would bring the sheets home to boil them in the big black pot because we didn't have washing machines. And she was boiling the sheets in the pot and taking them out and putting them on the line. And she said, oprah, Gayle, you better watch me, because one day you're gonna have to do this for yourself. And I could feel inside myself that the Forbes list was coming. It would take 70 years. No, of course, I didn't know one darn thing about a Forbes list. But I could feel inside myself that I am not going to be hanging clothes on a line and boiling them in a pot. Because I believed that. This is the belief that has carried me my whole life. I believed that I was God's child because I would sit in the service every Sunday and I would listen to the preacher say, you're God's child. And because I didn't have a father, didn't know who my father was at the time. I didn't know my father Till I was 7, 8 years old. I thought that God was actually my father, and therefore Jesus was my brother, and that we were just all in the family together and that through God, all things are possible. So I actually believed that. So in every endeavor, every contest I was in, every speaking engagement, when I moved to Baltimore, when I got the job there, when I got my first job at 16, when I moved to Chicago and everybody said, chicago is the most racist place you can ever go for a job. It never occurred to me that I wouldn't get the job because I was a woman or because of the color of my skin. I thought if I don't get the job, it's because they don't like me. It's because I'm not funny enough. I'm not warm enough. I'm not good enough. But it never occurred to me, because why? I'm God's child. That is a core belief that I have had that has carried me everywhere. So I wanted to know, what are your core beliefs? Because I know this for sure. You do not become what you wish for. You do not become what you want. You do not become even what you aspire to. You become exactly what you believe is possible. And those beliefs carry you forward. You make all your decisions based upon what do you really believe? And so if you're not getting where you want to go. You have to look at what is the ceiling of my beliefs. Okay, so who wants to answer that? What do you believe? What do you believe? Yes. Yeah.

[Sean Achor]

I want to stop the suffering, to help others.

[Simone]

Okay.

[Sean Achor]

I really believe that I'm here to

[Oprah Winfrey]

serve others and help. In what way?

[Dr. Hagel]

In their mental just capacity, but also to find themselves. Okay.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's a core belief.

[Melanie]

That's a core belief.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. Okay. Alexandra, what's your core belief?

[Sean Achor]

My core belief is that I'm worth something.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That you're worth something?

[Daley]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. That you matter.

[Sean Achor]

That I matter?

[Dr. Hagel]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. Core belief.

[Melanie]

My core belief is that what's for you will flow to you effortlessly and without force.

[Simone]

Okay.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And how has that shown up in your life?

[Melanie]

I'm a very hard worker, very ambitious. Everything that I've worked hard for leads me to opportunities. But the ultimate thing that really pushes me forward usually flows to me and comes to me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, wonderful. Melanie.

[Melanie]

My core belief is to treat yourself and others with kindness because you never know what somebody's going through.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. And how has that showed up in your life? How has that manifested for you?

[Melanie]

It's manifested because the people that have come into my life, I feel like, have taught me about myself, and especially because you never know what somebody's going through. And I've had, sadly, friends who have. Who are no longer here because they've taken their life. And I think that has been an opportunity for me to learn how to lead with kindness and to be able to show up for our brothers and sisters.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. And so that's what you do?

[Melanie]

That's what I do.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it's been a guiding principle.

[Melanie]

A guiding principle.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. All right. Well, I'm so happy today because my guest is a renowned positive psychology researcher who studies the connection between happiness and success. And we met many years ago when I first interviewed him, and now he's written a new book called the Power of Beliefs. How Strengthening Seven Core Beliefs Predicts Greater Success and A Better Life. It's wonderful to see you again, Sean.

[Nicole]

Ay cor.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Now you've heard the audience talk about some of their core beliefs. The subtitle of your book is How Strengthening Seven Core Beliefs Predicts Greater Success and a Better Light. I loved it when she said I matter, because that's one of them, right? Yes, yes, yes. Welcome.

[Sean Achor]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Good to see you again.

[Sean Achor]

So good to see you again.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It wasn't good to hear people talk about beliefs.

[Sean Achor]

It was. I think it's the core of. It's the core predictor of what happens next in our lives. That these beliefs don't just shape our experience of the present. They predict what happens next, not only in someone's life long term, but also in the course of going through cancer treatment or trying to be a student, trying to find a job, or trying to find love in this world.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And tell us why. Because your definition of belief is.

[Sean Achor]

There's lots of definitions of belief. Mine is that it's just a simple one. It's the lens through which you view the world. But that that lens is something that's unique to us and human.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Sean Achor]

And you know, we have AI right now that can predict whether or not someone's going to their likelihood of surviving cancer or their likelihood of finding a job. We can predict the odds. But what AI can't do is believe. It can't believe you will ever beat the odds. It will never believe that you can beat the odds to be successful if you started at one socioeconomic place. It can't believe you'll beat the odds and find a job or find love or overcome cancer. That's uniquely human because that requires willpower and determination and hope. In this quiet fire that says that I believe my behavior still matters.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[Simone]

Okay.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So what I was saying earlier, you and I have talked about this before, that I don't think you just get what you want in life. You don't get what you want no matter even how hard you work. If there is somewhere a subconscious belief that you can't have it.

[Sean Achor]

That's right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

If there's a subconscious ceiling somewhere that believes it because you are a woman or because you're short or because you're black or brown or whatever your race, if there's somewhere inside you that subconsciously believes that, that will prevent you from going forward. I've seen it over and over and over again, but I don't actually understand how that, you know, physically works. Can you explain it?

[Sean Achor]

I can, but there's actually amazing research on this very phenomenon that you're talking about. They did studies where they had a student come in and they were about to give them a math test. But if it was a woman about to take a math test or a black student, before taking the test, half of the students would be given a neutral article just talking about the world right now. Then half would read an article about how women are not good at math or black students are not good at math. Then they take the test. And what they found is that the students were randomly assigned. The math scores should have been the same for Both groups, but the groups that heard that they do not perform as well. When they read that, they start to believe that when that happens, the math scores actually dropped significantly. They've done this over and over again. But I have to tell you, as I heard your introduction, there is something that we've heard some of these studies before. It's called stereotype threat. That if I threaten you with a stereotype, you perform worse across the board. But what's amazing in the research that not many people know about is that there's a 10% minority report that we never talk about. 10% of the women or those black students that read that racist article beforehand, 10% of them do better on the math test. They hear that belief that you're not good at math and they actually perform better than if they had not even had that prime. And the reason for that is that you've touched on a signature belief, something that they believe so deeply that no matter what the world says, they believe that eventually my behavior matters if linked to the right people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Yeah. Because I was thinking if I was taking that test, I would have thought, well, I'm going to show you exactly. Yeah, I'm going to show you. Absolutely.

[Podcast Announcer]

Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's just a quick tap of the subscribe button and that way you won't miss an episode in your queue. You don't have to pay anything. I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something, something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about, so thank you for watching and listening. Time for a quick break, listeners. Up next, Sean Achor explains why he believes your future is shaped less by your circumstances and more by what you believe about them.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hello, listeners.

[Podcast Announcer]

I always say that one of the great joys of my life has been my dogs. So I am deeply committed to their well being. Just like our friends at the Farmer's Dog. From my golden retrievers to my cocker Spaniels, I've had 21 dogs over the years. Their smiles, they do smile, you know. Their snuggles, their spirits remind me to slow down, to be present and to appreciate the small comforts in life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Listen to this.

[Podcast Announcer]

The Farmer's Dog makes human grade Food for our dogs with real ingredients and minimal processing. So I've been feeding the farmer's dog to my cocker spaniel, Sadie, for a while now. Sadie's 17 and a half because it supports healthy aging. And I think it's giving us more good days together because every time I feed her the farmer's dog, I know I'm giving her safe, quality food. To all my fellow dog lovers, you know, our beloved companions give us so much, and that is why the farmer's dog helps us do our best for them.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We're back with positive psychology researcher Shawn

[Podcast Announcer]

Achor, author of the Power of Beliefs. I'm a big believer that what you believe actually is what shapes your life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So we don't have time to work today on strengthening all seven. All seven. But I wanted to just focus on the first three. And number one is my behavior matters. So let's talk about how we can begin to focus on behavior and why that matters and why that makes a difference in your future. Okay? And as I'm speaking, if you guys have a question, please let us know, because I think this is the key to having a successful and happy life is the power of your beliefs. And ultimately, it's, do you believe that the world is for you or against you? Isn't it? Do you believe that the world is for you, or do you believe that the world is stacked against you?

[Sean Achor]

So I think we live in a world that doesn't look like it should. And in the midst of that world, we keep reading news stories that we keep feeling like my behavior doesn't matter, or we get a negative feedback at work or we don't get a job or we go through a breakup or something bad happens in our life, and what happens in those moments is if you take the same broken world, but you give a different belief to that same individual, their outcomes change dramatically. If you take the same student with adhd, the same young mother who's trying to overcome the debts that she's in, or caring for aging parents, or the same person that's growing older, if you take that same person at work or just getting a cancer diagnosis, and you have changed one belief, and that belief is, my behavior matters or my behavior doesn't matter.

[Dr. Hagel]

Yeah.

[Sean Achor]

What happens next changes dramatically in the science we do. So what we find is if you believe your behavior matters and you have stage three cancer, you eat healthier, you go to the doctor, you take the medication you need, you deepen your relationships with your friends because you know that that's going to help You. And what we find is their outcomes change. Same world, different beliefs, different outcomes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

This is so amazing that you're saying this, because I had a friend recently was going through cancer and also struggles with eating. And when they got the cancer diagnosis, actually started eating and eating and eating and eating and eating and said they were really just trying to take themselves out.

[Simone]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And after, you know, having. I basically did an intervention to say, your behavior makes a difference. And so you have to be a participant and first of all, believe that eating healthy is going to make a difference, Right? Yes.

[Sean Achor]

But the important part that I would add to that is that positive beliefs don't guarantee positive outcomes, but they do propel us towards them. That if I believe and hope that a good outcome would happen from a cancer, it doesn't guarantee that outcome will happen, but it changes your attitude.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It changes the way you approach it.

[Sean Achor]

It changes the attitude. I know that my wife and I, Michelle, every time she was pregnant, I prayed and hoped and believed that our children would be okay and be healthy. And we went through two miscarriages. And, you know, in the midst of when our hopes are dashed, when we feel like the world doesn't look like it should, in those moments, if we have given up the belief that my behavior matters or is that I matter or that we still have something to be grateful for, or that there is something greater than me, we wouldn't have our children right now, and we would have a very different view on the world.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. So my behavior matters key number one. But you just said we still have something to be grateful for. Gratitude is actually my religion. It is my greatest spiritual practice. And there is no one who has more gratitude for where I've come from to where I am. There's not a day that I don't think about it. There's not a day that I'm not aware of, you know, the work that I've done, but also the blessings that I've received for it. So I think being grateful is key to everything.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And even in the worst of times, when you're feeling the worst, the way to turn around those negative vibrations, those negative feelings, I think is to sit and think about what it is you're grateful for. And if you can't think of it, just listen to yourself breathe, that you have breath, that you have breath. What do you think about gratitude?

[Sean Achor]

Well, my first book was called the Happiness Advantage.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Sean Achor]

And what we found was that when the brain becomes more grateful for the world that we're in, it doesn't mean that we're grateful for everything that's happening.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Sean Achor]

It doesn't mean we're grateful for the inequality or the discrimination or the racism that's in our world right now. But when we find those moments of things we're grateful for in the midst of it, it allows our brain to actually move from the part of the brain that sees how my behavior doesn't matter, that fearful part that says things will never get better or that I will never be okay, to the front part of the brain that moves forward. And what we find is, as somebody becomes more grateful, what we find is that almost every single business and educational outcome we know how to test for improves dramatically. Our sales rise. Our productivity improves. We live longer. We become more altruistic. Everything we test for on the ACT and SAT standardized test rises. Our creativity nearly tripled, Triples. Our intelligence rises. It turns out having a grateful brain is one of the greatest possible advantages you could give to someone in the midst of a world that doesn't look like it should be.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. I will say this just to share with you guys. I've kept a gratitude journal since, like, 1992, I think. And there was a period where I had a whole lot of stuff going on and was not writing down my five things every day. And I started to feel more disconnected, more. I wouldn't say depressed, but just, like, disjointed. And things started to go wrong, and I couldn't figure out, and I went, oh, I know what it is. I haven't been practicing gratitude. And that's why now I say it's a religion, because I practice it religiously. It's like. It's like the last thing I do before I go to bed every night.

[Daley]

I love that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Yeah. And I've been doing it for years. I have journals and journals and journals. It's getting better. Cause it used to be, like, filled with food. I had the best pancakes today.

[Podcast Announcer]

I had the bestest today.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm so grateful for this. Whipped cream on the bottom.

[Simone]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But little small things, you know, like water pressure in the shower. Isn't water pressure a thing to be grateful for? Oh, my God. When you're in a hotel and the water. Drip, drip, drip. When you go to a hotel and the water pressure is like, oh.

[Nicole]

Oh, my God.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Water pressure. So great, great, great. And so I think that that actually changes your brain, doesn't it? The gratitude?

[Sean Achor]

It does. Because gratitude is searching for the good that's in the world around us. And it changes not only what we feel when we have water pressure or central air or food on our plate, it changes what happens next for people. There's this amazing demonstration experiment that was done by a researcher named Richard Weissman. And what he did is he had people come into a room like this one, and he would give them a survey and find out, do you think that you are a grateful person and that you're a lucky person? The good things just seem to happen to you, that if you work for it, that the world can conspire in your favor, or do you think you're an unlucky person? The bad things just keep happening to you no matter how hard you work. And then he hands them a newspaper, and in the newspaper, he wants you to count the number of photographs that are in it. So you go quickly through it, and if you get the number correct, you get five pounds if it's done in the uk.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Sean Achor]

So the people started doing it as quickly as possible, looking for all the photos in the newspaper, but on page two of everyone's newspaper, but in big letters, but not in a photo, it says, stop the experiment now. We'll give you £10 if you stop now. And here's what happens. The people who felt that they were unlucky, the people who are the pessimists, or the people who felt like good things wouldn't happen to them, they finish the experiment and they get paid because they get the number correct, they get five pounds. But the group that thought that good things just happened to them, that good things can happen in this world, the optimists, it turns out that they stop the experiment and not only get double pay, but they saw an opportunity that other people didn't see in that reality. And neuroscientists found out why afterwards. Why they found that when we're in a grateful state, when we're positive, our brain thinks it's possible for there to be good things around us. So your brain scans for it. But if you don't believe that it's possible that there are good things in the world around us, you don't look for them. So you miss out on those possibilities. I'm reminded of this quote by my favorite author, who's C.S. lewis, and he said that there are people that believe in miracles and sometimes see them, and there are people that don't believe in miracles and never see one. I think the same thing is true for people. They're scanning for the things that they're grateful for in their lives.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, it's been over 10 years now since we had our conversation, and eight years since you published your last book. Was it big potential?

[Shannon]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And you reveal in the power of belief that you intentionally took the foot, your foot off the gas pedal for a while, just of your career because you wanted to. What?

[Sean Achor]

Well, eight years ago, I had this book come out and my wife Michelle was pregnant at the time and we were gonna have a baby at the end of April. So I decided, let's have this book come out the first week of February so I could go on the book tour, sprint, and then get off the road and be there with my wife and new child. The day before the book came out was the Super Bowl. And during the super bowl, during the first quarter while my team was playing, my wife's water broke. We didn't know that was what was going on at the time, which is very important to the story. It was three months too early and it was during the super bowl. So she, she Ubered to the hospital. Husband of the year. I got her an Uber xl. So that's, that's fancy. And she got there and they said, ma', am, your water broke. You need to stay here for six weeks trying to hold this baby in. And two days later, she was rushed into emergency surgery. We didn't even have a name for this child. It was three months too early and we almost lost her three times in a two day period of time. And she kept sparking back to life. And we found her name. Her name is Zoe Sparks. Acor. And she just turned eight.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, nice, nice, nice.

[Sean Achor]

But instead of going on a book tour to talk about research on how you pursue happiness and success, instead my happiness as a researcher sat in the NICU in an incubator for the next 50 days while these doctors tried to keep her alive. And what happened in that moment overnight is my beliefs about what was important and how I mattered changed. And what changed next in my life was because of those beliefs. I remember holding Zoe's hand, this little three pound baby that was under the purple light with all those wires, just keeping her alive. And I decided that I was going to not only take a step back from work, but I was going to become a full time dad for the next couple of years to take care of Zoe and our family. And it was amazing. And it was also hard at the same time in a way I didn't expect, because I saw all these opportunities that I wanted seemed to pass me by and the world seemed like it was passing me by. But I'm grateful for that time because not only did it shift my beliefs, but also it gave me space. And when the pandemic occurred, these hospitals and schools started reaching out about what could they do when they were suffering so much. And I had the space, but also that meaningful belief to try and help in those moments. And what I learned from those people, those nurses, the doctors, those schoolteachers, was the same thing I learned from Zoe, that the lens through which you view the world changes not only your present, it changes what happens next.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We have to take a break. When we return, Shawn shares a personal

[Podcast Announcer]

story about a time when he felt he no longer mattered and how in only an instant, he, an unexpected stranger, flipped his perspective. We're excited for the Oprah podcast to present this series Life Is Better With Dogs, in partnership with the Farmer's Dog.

[Dr. Hunter Finn]

My name is Dr. Hunter Finn. I've been a veterinarian for seven years.

[Podcast Announcer]

A proud son of Louisiana, 33 year old Dr. Hunter Finn knew he was born to become a veterinarian.

[Dr. Hunter Finn]

The number one question that I get all the time in the clinic is what's the best food to feed my dog? Food is definitely love. So overfeeding is a big issue. Nutrition is overlooked. It's the best preventive medicine that we have.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Is that yummy?

[Dr. Hunter Finn]

Every meal is a chance to nourish their body, to help prevent disease and to really strengthen that bond that we share with them and ultimately help them live longer, happier lives with us.

[Podcast Announcer]

To hear more, scan the QR code or go to thefarmersdog.com Oprah podcast. We're back with positive psychologist Shaun Achor and we're talking about the power of beliefs.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Maybe this conversation has you asking yourself,

[Podcast Announcer]

what do you believe?

[Oprah Winfrey]

What beliefs are you holding back? You write about the pause in your work life and you also can you tell the story the morning you woke up in Minneapolis to speak at Target?

[Sean Achor]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Sean Achor]

So this is a petty story, but it leads to something good. I think that's important to say because beliefs are real even if they're not true. If a child, if a student is surrounded by people who love them and care for them and parents that care for them and teachers that care about them, but they believe that they're not lovable or believe that they're alone, that belief is not true. But it's real. It creates real effects. So in this period that I was a stay at home dad, I started to feel like these opportunities were passing me by. And I showed up. I got to the talk at 3am in the morning. So I was tired when I woke up the next morning I got a news alert that someone had made in my space. A gun. The New York Times number one bestseller. And I thought to myself, I wish I had that, but I'm a stay at home dad now, so, so good for them. And then it was a happiness book. Yes.

[Dr. Hagel]

Yeah.

[Sean Achor]

And then I got another note, literally five seconds later that someone got this incredible opportunity that I really would have wanted. And because I was tired in that moment, I went into a mental tailspin. And my brain thought, you know, if you stopped working, the world wouldn't be like, no, it would just shrug. And then I started to feel like maybe I matter less now. And then I thought, maybe I don't matter. And as soon as I had that belief, things started to change. What happened immediately was I was blind to the opportunity to get to speak at Target. I was blind to the fact that I had taken time to be there with Zoe and Leo. And I remember getting into a car to go to the Talk and sitting in the backseat looking out the window, despondent, and just feeling like I was watching the world pass by. Well, the driver took me to the wrong location. He took me to Target headquarters, but I was supposed to go to a theater. And so the organizers called me on the phone and said, stay where you are. Don't go anywhere. We're going to send somebody to come get you. It's clear you're lost. And I felt lost. But I decided to go up the escalator into Target headquarters. And while I was doing that, this guy jogged up the stairs next to the escalator, and he said, are you Shawn Achor? And I said, yes, thinking that this was the escort. And he shook my hand awkwardly over the railing as we were going up the escalator and stairs together. And as we got to the top of the escalator, he said, I just wanted to let you know your book changed my life. And then he went through a turnstile into Target headquarters and disappeared. And I have no idea who he is. I have no idea who he was. I have no idea why the research, not my book, but the research had an impact upon his life. But as soon as my brain heard that message, something happened. There's a study that just came out in Nature where they found that if you provide new information to the brain, these neuroscientists can actually watch on neuroscans. They can actually watch you encode a new belief almost at the speed of light. And that's what happened in that moment. Suddenly, the scales fell from my eyes. I felt like I could see that this talk was an opportunity to maybe help somebody else and that maybe I'd done something meaningful in the past. And the talk went so much better because it was not about me. It was about the people that were there. And when I got back into the car, I got back in with the same driver and sat in the same seat, and I looked out the same window. I still felt replaced at work in the world, but I could again see that I mattered in the midst of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. That's why knowing that you matter is so vital to every human being. And that's. And, you know, it's one of the lessons that I learned during the Oprah Winfrey show all those years is that after every show, somebody would say something like, was that okay?

[Podcast Announcer]

Was that good? Was that all right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

No matter who it was that I was interviewing would say that the president said it. You know, Beyonce said it. Everybody would say, in one form or

[Podcast Announcer]

another, was that okay?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And I realized that the common denominator in our human experience is that we all want to know that we matter.

[Sean Achor]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And every argument that you have, every conversation that you have, everybody wants to know, do you hear me? Are you listening to me? And does what I say matter to you? That's what everybody wants.

[Sean Achor]

Back at the divinity school, I learned that the word for angel is just simply messenger. And that guy was an angel because he delivered a message to my brain right when I needed to hear it. But we need those people within our life, those messengers. And that messenger could be a teacher or a parent or a good friend or a person.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We need those people, but we are also those people.

[Sean Achor]

Yes, you are those people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

To make other people understand that they matter in your life. And that's your number one role as a human being, is to let other people. You matter to him. You matter to let other people know that they matter. I think that's one of the cores. The other essential belief that you list is, one of the seven is I have something to give.

[Sean Achor]

Ah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I thought that was so important because she was saying, I'm here because I'm here to serve. Yes. Let's talk about, I have something to give.

[Sean Achor]

I love this because I think there's often times in our life we feel like we don't have something to give. If we don't have a ton of money, we might think, I have nothing to give. And then we don't even give $5 to a charity. Or if we think, I'm too busy, I have no time right now, then we think I don't have time to send that text to a friend to just check in to hear how they're doing. What happens is that we go back and forth between these beliefs. We either feel like we have enough, or we feel like I don't have enough. But then we go too far in this. In the book, I pair I don't have enough. Not with I have enough because I don't think that that's true. I don't think that we always have enough. We might be in debt or we might be sick, or we might want things that other people have. That's not where I'm going. The opposite to me of that I don't have enough is I have something to give. And there's amazing research about how this, this changes us. There's a study that I've written about in every one of my books because I love it. It's called the Good Samaritan Study. And the Good Samaritan Study is a famous psychology experiment. And they had these pastors read about the story from the Bible called the Good Samaritan, which simply was about how there was a person that was injured on the side of a path or a road, and all these people that should have helped didn't. And then the person who you never thought would have helped was the one who actually helped the Good Samaritan. So the pastors learn this, are reading about the story, they're writing up a sermon, and then they have to walk across campus to deliver the sermon. And there's two conditions. Half of them, they told, you have plenty of time to get over there. Just walk down this path and you'll deliver your sermon to the people that are waiting for you there. But you have lots of time. The other group, they said, you are so behind right now. You took way too long to do this. You need to get over there waiting for you. You need to get over, walk as fast as you can down that path. So there's a hurry condition and non hurry condition. So some of them believe, I don't have enough time. These are pastors. They're reading the Good Samaritan story about helping other people. And along the path, they put an undercover researcher who is standing in a doorway sick and slumping over, and it's clear he's in distress. And the majority of the pastors who felt like they had enough time stop and ask the person if they can help. And the majority of the pastors who are reading the Good Samaritan story who felt like they didn't have enough Time don't stop to help the person. What this means is when we feel like we don't have enough, we stop being the type of person that we want to be. We stop living out the values that we have, providing love to other people. So as you described that your value, your core value is being a servant to other people. We have to believe that we have something to give in that moment. And it might not be money. It might not be a lot of time that you have to spend with that person, but even a smile or a wave or a note of kindness or a hug or a touch on the shoulder we've all known has a huge effect upon us and starts to help us live out our lives.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You know what else? I found this, too, Shawn. I found that whenever you. Whatever your jobs are, and everybody here has a different job, you know, either really like or you don't like. But whenever you shift the paradigm of whatever it is you're doing, whatever your job title says, whenever you shift that to service. How do I use this thing that I do in service to something other than myself? It shifts. It shifts the air around it. It shifts the frequency. It shifts the vibration. Because I believe that we are all here in service to each other. And so are you a hairdresser. I was just having this conversation with my hairdresser this morning. Nicole, who y' all saw looks good.

[Nicole]

Good.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you, Nicole. I was just having this conversation with Nicole and Derek, who beats my face into reality every day. And I was saying, gosh, just this morning, I said to them, guys, I'm just so blessed to have you. I feel so blessed to have you, because you changed the way I see myself. Because I get up looking like, God knows I'm God's child, but I. Only God knows that I'm his child at that time. So the fact that you do hair or you work in a salon or you do makeup, some people see that as a job. I see it as offering a different way for other people to see themselves and experience themselves. Some people work in a florist shop. You think you're selling flowers. I see you're offering beauty to people every day. So I think whatever your job is, whatever it is you feel like you have been called or not called to do, if you shift the idea of that to how do I use this thing that I'm doing as an offering in service to someone, it changes it. It changes. It changes the way you see it, and it also changes the way that people receive it.

[Sean Achor]

I love that. Don't you think I do.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. I know. Because when I said that to Nicole this morning, she says, well, thank you. I really. I see that myself. I see that people change when they come in my chair and they see themselves transformed. You know, that's great. Okay. So while the team was working on this episode, we saw a TikTok with 17 million views of a young woman who was crashing out. Here's the video.

[Daley]

You want me to be honest?

[Nicole]

I'm angry. I'm mad. I'm mad because I care more about you than you care about me. And that's how it's always gone. I'm tired of it. I'm mad. I'm angry. I'm tired of feeling so much. I'm tired of being in my head. I hate it. And no matter how much I try, try to let go of it and give it to God, it's still so heavy.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. You were having a day.

[Simone]

I was.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You were having a day.

[Daley]

I was.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What was going on there, Daley?

[Daley]

I get emotional every time I listen to it, and when I tell people about it, they're like, I want to see the video. And I'm like, I can't handle it again. I can't. For context, I got out of a three year relationship back in October and I found out that he had cheated on me and I hit a wall. I just started a successful cleaning business in the Kansas City area and it completely devastated everything. I've dealt with anxiety and depression my whole life, but this was it for me. And I was trying to find anything to fill that void, and I just found that nothing, nothing was working. And I was so sad. And in this video, this isn't the first time I posted a video of me crying on TikTok. And it's always gotten traction. And I think that's because there's power and vulnerability and relatability. And so when I posted it and saw thousands of people, it's at 18 million views now on TikTok alone. Everybody saying, we relate. We see you. You're not alone. That was healing for me, but also for other people. Now, since then, I'm doing much better.

[Nicole]

Now, certainly look at today, in fact,

[Daley]

I. I chose Jesus Christ and I turned and I fully surrendered everything because I was so done. I was fed up. I was hopeless. And since then, I've just been healed. I've been made new. My business is booming. I'm healthy physically, mentally, emotionally, everything.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what happens when you become God's child.

[Daley]

Amen, sister. And I chose gratitude every Single day. So you saying that I was like, that was confirmation that I'm meant to be here right now?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Daley]

Now since I've dropped out of the dating pool, I don't date anymore. I give all of my time and energy to my cleaning business, which is great.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Daley]

I know that me, alongside a lot of women in this generation of dating feel hopeless when it comes to finding love with the hookup culture, with dating, with dating apps. It feels hopeless. It feels pointless.

[Dr. Hagel]

Yeah.

[Daley]

So what My question for you guys, I guess, would be, no, it's for him.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's definitely not for me. That question is going to him, not to me.

[Dr. Hagel]

But go ahead.

[Daley]

What advice do you have to this generation of people who are dating who have no belief that finding true love is real?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, church. Look at the church, and everybody look at the church. We hear you daily.

[Daley]

Amen, sister.

[Sean Achor]

As I listen to your story, I hear so much from this research. Like, I think from the very beginning, I think you heard that you're not alone. I think that you helped other people know that they're not alone in the midst of it. That's one of the most powerful beliefs we have. There's a study of one of my favorite studies in the book that found that if you're looking at a hill you need to climb in front of you. If you're looking at that hill by yourself, your brain shows you a picture of a hill that looks 15% steeper than if I put someone next to you that you believe is going to climb the hill with you. That shouldn't be happening. The hill's not changing. But our perception of the hill that happens instantaneously before you do anything is different based upon do I think I'm alone or am I with other people? And it wasn't just the physical ones that were affecting us. It's the emotional ones as well. Overcoming anxiety or depression or loneliness, or trying to date or try to find a job in the midst of a world that doesn't look like it should. Those mountains are collapsing or expanding based upon whether or not we think we're alone or we're with other people. So my first thing that I would say is that when we look at those challenges, this is why happiness can't be self help. As soon as you put happiness books in the self help section of a bookstore, we make it 20 to 30% steeper for people to achieve because they think something's wrong with the world, but something's wrong with me. I need to fix it. And then once I fixed it then I can be successful. And what we're finding is the greatest predictor of long term levels of happiness and success is your social connection score. It's other people. It's a breadth, depth of meaning in your social relationships. But the other thing that I think is so important about what you're saying is that you're searching for hope. Like many people are in this world. Hope not just for dating, but hope that people have for a job or hope that they'll get over cancer. And I talked to a pastor, one of my friends named Matt Tuggle in Dallas, and he says that when people are crashing out or when they're at the bottom, where a relationship fails or a marriage fails, or they don't get the job that they want or that they lose someone, his goal at the bottom is to help them to start to believe that the future you hoped for is not the only future with hope. And what I loved about this is that we get fixed on one version of hope that changed for you, that there were other futures that had hope. But once you see that, it gets back to the newspaper study. When we believe that there's possibility out there, when we believe that there's something greater than me, what we find is scientifically our beliefs predict what happens next. And I'm not surprised to hear the incredible successes you've had in your life.

[Daley]

I'm so grateful to be here. I really am.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you daily. So the very same week that we were working on a podcast about the power of beliefs with Sean, my producer sent me this video that popped up in her feed. Take a look at this. You're okay, you're okay. Are you okay?

[Shannon]

Okay, so that was 25 year old me. Let me give you a little backstory. There was nothing bigger than the Oprah Winfrey Show. Oprah was it. Growing up in a small town, I was fascinated by people like her. How someone build a life that big. I think I just needed proof that a woman could build something that powerful. At 24 years old, I moved to Chicago. I was an elementary school art teacher. My best friend, who also also loved Oprah, moved here shortly after me. One day she scored last minute tickets to the Oprah Winfrey Show. I remember her saying something that stuck with me when I was younger. Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. When you stick to something and you keep grinding and you keep at it. Had I not moved to Chicago, this night at the United center would not be happening.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Don't quit, keep going.

[Shannon]

Because you never know what's on the horizon for you?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Shannon. Shannon, hello. Good to see you.

[Podcast Announcer]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's a fun story. So what do you know for sure about beliefs?

[Shannon]

That they are real and they are powerful, and I think they shape the way we move through life. I also think that who we surround ourself with, what we watch, what we listen to, just like I was a teenager watching the Oprah Winfrey show when you inspired me. And I'm like, she lives in Chicago. It must be pretty good there. Like, I think I'm gonna take a chance and do this, and, you know, my life is great there. And I've had so many opportunities that I know for sure I wouldn't have had had I not, you know, been inspired by you. So I think that people shape us, but I think ultimately it comes from within when you decide to take action and you try things and you fail and you grow and you learn, and life beats you up a little bit, and you keep going, you start to gain confidence, and then you start to, like, really believe in your own power.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. Well, good to see you again.

[Sean Achor]

Good to see you.

[Shannon]

It's great to see you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[Simone]

Wow.

[Podcast Announcer]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

In the book you write about a former public teacher when you talk school superintendent. Tell us about that.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yes.

[Sean Achor]

So I got the opportunity to work with the superintendent of Genesee county, which is where Flint, Michigan is, and was invited in to share this research on beliefs and happiness. And I was nervous going in because it's Flint. You've got entrenched inequality and discrimination, racism and lead in the drinking water. They had to turn off the water fountains while they were there. For the students in the midst of that to come in and talk about happiness and optimism was daunting, but also, I believe, so crucial, because when the teachers believed that their behavior might not matter, they left on average, after two years. So our goal was, could we change the beliefs for the teachers and see if it had an effect upon the students?

[Oprah Winfrey]

So Dr. Hagel is here. Tell us how positive beliefs changed your district.

[Dr. Hagel]

Yeah. Thank you for having me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you.

[Dr. Hagel]

So I think all of us know that systems themselves don't change, Right? People actually make the difference in change. And so with Sean's work, we really intentionally focused on people and did a lot of training and time intentionally with people, and used his first book, Happiness Advantage and the strategies within Happiness Advantage, to focus on our greatest asset, which are the people inside of the intermediate school district, and worked to ensure that the staff and the students inside of the intermediate school district knew that they are valued that what they do mattered, how they feel mattered, and ensure that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because isn't that what everybody wants?

[Dr. Hagel]

I agree. Person, no matter what their role is inside of the school district, everybody wants to know. Everybody felt that they were important.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Teacher, what period of time did you all do this work?

[Dr. Hagel]

This work began around 2012 and it continues today. It's not just an initiative. It is a belief of myself being.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's a way of being. It's a way of being.

[Dr. Hagel]

When you go to work, the way you show up to work is different. It's a deeper meaning of care. So that you are lifting each other every day. And so that through Sean's work, you know, happiness fuels more happiness and more success.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And now the people actually believe that.

[Dr. Hagel]

Yeah, now we all believe we matter.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Now you believe that and you're protective

[Dr. Hagel]

of that and children believe that and it shows up in their academic success.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, that's huge for children, isn't it? Huge, yeah.

[Sean Achor]

When the teachers started to believe that their behavior mattered, that they were not alone, what we saw was in the classrooms where the teachers levels of optimism rose, the teacher's students, test scores rose. But we weren't working with the students, we were working with the teachers. And you could see the contagious effect of positive beliefs not just upon ourselves, but upon the people that we serve as well. And we got reports that people in the community who sometimes the teachers never even met the guardians or the parents of those students, that their well being scores were improving. So we worked with the teachers. But you could see an effect upon the students and upon the community, which I think, I think both of those stories that both of you described about how beliefs, beliefs are more powerful than I think we give them credit for. And I think one of the most exciting things.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Nothing. You wrote a whole book, so you give them a lot of credit.

[Sean Achor]

I'm a big fan of beliefs.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Them a lot of credit. Beliefs. Yes. Yes.

[Sean Achor]

Here's something amazing that I didn't know until I started working on the book that changed, I think everything for me. So I would love to share this because I think is both of what you're saying is that we've heard of something called the placebo effect. The placebo effect is the belief that if I give you a fake pill or a fake intervention, but you believe that it's real, you show real health outcome benefits. In fact, every drug that the Federal Drug Administration has to test, we compare it to the power of beliefs. We've known this for a while. In fact, one of the. Well, we've known this, but we underestimate the power of beliefs because there is a study back in 2001 called the Sham knee surgery, which is a famous one, because what they did is they invited 300 gentlemen in and they had terrible knee pain that would not get that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I would have been very pissed if I was in that casino.

[Sean Achor]

They don't know what's coming because two thirds of them. So they got a free. They were offered a free knee surgery.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I don't even know how they got away with this, but go ahead.

[Sean Achor]

I don't know how they got this. Two thirds of them did get a free knee surgery. The doctor came in at the Baylor College of Medicine, created an incision, fixed the ligaments, fixed the cartilage, and sutured them back up, leaving a scar. For the other third.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They just did a little incision.

[Sean Achor]

The doctor comes in, gives them an incision, goes, has a, has a coffee, and then comes back and sutures them back up, giving them a scar, but no surgery. But when they wake up from anesthesia, they have a scar. So they don't know if they got a real surgery or not. Here's what happened at the six month mark. The healing effects for both groups were almost identical between the real surgery and the sham surgery two years later. Mobility, inflammation, pain were all improved almost at the same level between people that got a real surgery and people that believed that they had a surgery. But this is where things take a huge turn, because we've heard about placebos. This is the part that if you walk away from one thing, from our conversation together, it's that we live in a world where we feel like the power of belief is on the decline. With technology and the way that the world is right now, it feels like our beliefs are dwindling in this world, but scientifically, we're actually getting the complete opposite message. The placebo effect remained constant over time, but I was looking at depression studies, and I found that over the past three decades, the placebo effect, the likelihood of a fake intervention that you believe is real to have an effect upon you, rose by 7% every decade for three decades. Why would belief become more predictive of people's lives? So I got fascinated and I started going deeper into the research. I read over 100 articles and meta analyses, and what I found is in all these conditions, from heart disease to cancer to childhood epilepsy, to depression to anxiety, we found that the placebo rate over the past two decades has doubled, if not tripled. What this means for you is that the power of belief is not dwindling or declining scientifically. The power of belief to heal us is greater now than it was 20 years ago that the power of belief is actually ascending.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. Okay. I still would have been very upset if I got the fake knee surgery. You know, I would have been. I mean, how did those people react?

[Dr. Hunter Finn]

No.

[Sean Achor]

And you would have been better, possibly.

[Oprah Winfrey]

There had to be some people that got the fakes that their knees started to hurt after a while. There had to be some.

[Sean Achor]

Absolutely. And there were people that got the real surgery, and it didn't work.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Sean Achor]

I went through back surgery myself and have the scar. And, you know, I was one of the lucky ones that it actually worked.

[Dr. Hagel]

Yeah.

[Sean Achor]

But I don't know if I got a real surgery. I was asleep.

[Oprah Winfrey]

All right. All right. So I wanted to know for you too, Shannon, after being on the Oprah show in that moment, and how have beliefs carried you through the rest of your life?

[Shannon]

I've always. I think I had really. I had have really supportive parents. My dad was the ultimate optimist, but he was a really hard worker and just. He saw the good in everything. And I think subconsciously he passed away almost three years ago. I'm carrying his spirit and his. I feel him in me, and I know that how I've approached things. And I wake up in the morning and list five things before I get out of bed that I'm grateful for. And I didn't do that before. I think it just comes with age. I've evolved and changed, but I've always just believed, just keep going. And I just have followed, you know, what I've always loved to do, which is creating art.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it's that grateful journal. It makes a difference. It does. Don't you see?

[Shannon]

It makes a difference. Big time.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Changes your vibration.

[Shannon]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Simone, you have a question?

[Simone]

Yes, I do. Thank you so much for having me. This has been great. So I'm 23 and just kind of entering the corporate world from graduating from college. And I think this discussion and your work in general has really reminded me of the book Atomic Habits and kind of how you change your identity when you're kind of unraveling a smoking addiction is like, the example that comes. Comes to mind. And it's changed from, like, I'm a smoker, so, like, what's the harm in another cigarette versus I am not a smoker, even if I'm smoking right now. And I think that it reminded me a lot of, like, an attribute I've been praised for, which is being Hardworking. And we've talked about that a lot today. And I think that it's something that I've always thought was really important. And I think as it's progressed, particularly entering the workforce, I kind of don't want to sacrifice that, but I kind of find myself in a place where work dominates a lot of my life. And so it's hardworking almost to a fault and where you're like neglecting other areas. And so I guess even though I think it takes work and effort to maintain relationships, whether it's socially or romantically, like we were talking about before. So I guess my kind of question is how do you go about a belief that you're worried is kind of harming you in some way? Or like, do you have to unwind that or can you be like, believe in it too much to a fault?

[Sean Achor]

It's a great question, such a great question. Thank you so much. It's a beautiful one that I think a lot of us wrestle with because what you're asking about is can belief change and how do we change it and what do we lose when we change those beliefs? I was worried when I took time away with Zoe that the world was passing me by and it did have cost. We're missing out all the time right now. While we're here in this incredible moment, someone's kissing for the first time, right? Or they're winning a race, right. Or they're having a baby. Right. Or they're having these moments. We're missing out in different ways and they're missing out on this moment. What we find in those, those times is we're looking can beliefs change and does it take a long time? And I think that one of the most important things I've learned in this research is about how those entrenched beliefs that sometimes hold us back can actually change. If I can, I would love to tell a story that I went through that was what made me experience that. That relates to the hill study that I mentioned earlier. So a few years ago, my wife and I, Michelle and I got to go on a eight hour hike in the White Mountains in New Hampshire. And we decided this in February, but we were going to go in October when the leaves were changing. Then I got a brilliant idea. What if we brought your son, my son Leo on this trip, who's 8, my wife, who's the smarter of the two of us, said, that's a terrible idea. It's eight hours. It's an incredibly difficult hike and he's 8 years old. So I bugged her for the next eight months. But the answer was still no until the night before the hike. With minimal coaching, my son Leo went up to Michelle and said, mom, can I please go on that hike with you tomorrow so I have something to be proud of. So the next morning, the three of us got to go on an eight hour hike in the White Mountains in New Hampshire. We started our hike at 9am we started our 8 hour hike at 9am and we finished the hike at 11am the next day. It started out so well. We started hiking and we were in good spirits. And I saw some hikers pass by me and I know, I know, I know what they're thinking. They're thinking, he is an amazing dad. He is so special to bring his son on this. And it was special and unique because there were no other kids out on this trail and it was just professional hikers passing us. Well, the only problem with little kids is that they have little legs. And it took them six hours to do the first third of the hike. And we got to the top of the mountain and we realized that we were trapped because you can't go back down there, it's too treacherous. You have to go over three more peaks and then down the backside. So I huddled Michelle and Leo together and I said, the sun is going to set in two hours, we have to take no more breaks and we're going to run. Which was not a thing. And we just realized that we found out that it snowed on top of the mountain as well, which we didn't know from the base. So two hours later, the sun set and we were on the second peak. And then a miracle happened. We found an emergency hut that had been built back in 1888 for some reason. And we huddled together for warmth in that emergency hut in 34 degree temperature with no blankets and no flashlights. And then the next morning, something utterly ordinary happened. Some people are listening to the story, being like, he is providing a meaningful experience for his kids. And others are like, I need to be calling Child Protective Services. I'm watching her reaction to this, right? But the next morning, something utterly normal happened. The sun rose and then we rose and then we hiked down the rest of the hill. And we did not feel any of the pain from the day before. We felt like we had a new lease on life and we felt bond in a new way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So I'm trying to understand, where did your belief change?

[Sean Achor]

The belief changed when we got back to the rental house. So what happened was there was a creek behind our house, and there was a board that went across this creek that was very flimsy. And every time my son Leo would go up to that board, my belief that was holding me back was I was a helicopter parent. I felt like I had constantly had to be talking and protect. Our house was bubble wrapped within an inch of its life until he was like. Until he was eight. And when my. Every time I saw Leo go towards that bridge, my brain would immediately say, say something. So I'd be like, leo, stop. Hey, buddy, watch your step. Hey, look out. That bridge can fall. But this time, without doing anything, those entrenched helicopter parent beliefs changed. And in an instant, my brain shifted to, he's got this. And so for the first time, as he had walked across that bridge, I didn't say anything. And he fell right into the creek. No, he's fine. But what happened that moment is, what a great dad. What a great dad. So special.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What a great dad.

[Sean Achor]

Is this something I didn't think could change or that I wanted to change because it might harm him? Actually change in a moment. And his beliefs changed overnight as well. Because when we went back to school, we had gone on dozens of hikes, but for the first time ever, he went back to school and he told his teacher and his friend, I'm a hiker. I'm a hiker. Now, if you believe you're a hiker, what do you do next? You climb more mountains.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What we were finding, that's exactly what happened to me. I'm climbing more mountains because I now define myself as a hiker.

[Daley]

That's it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's exactly it. And so I'm always like, I used to be going on vacation looking for what to eat, and now I literally choose places based on where is the best place to hike.

[Sean Achor]

I love that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. Because I consider myself a hiker now.

[Sean Achor]

We do the same thing once you change that identity. The whole point of this book is that if you change your beliefs, Beliefs don't just shape our reality. They predict what happens next. It happens next for you as you look for hikes. But also we have these moments that was a change that occurred on a mountain, but we have these. We work really hard to change our beliefs sometimes, and we have to sometimes with addiction recovery, or we think beliefs can't change. Like we have a family member or maybe an in law, that we think if they're born a pessimist, they die a pessimist. Right. If you're born into a family that doesn't have religious beliefs, you don't have religious beliefs. But what we're finding is that change is actually radically possible. I studied back at the Divinity School and traditional. I studied Christian Buddhists, Christian ethics. I'm a Christian, and I compared it to Buddhist ethics because I want to understand how other people's different beliefs shape how we experience this world. Why do we give? Why do we forgive? Why do we wake up in the morning? And while I was doing that, I learned the traditional Buddhists believe that you have to work your way, inch your way towards enlightenment through these habits and willpower and determination. And then there's Zen Buddhism, which believes that change can happen rapidly. In a car accident, with the birth of a child, with seeing someone that you fall in love with. It can happen in a NICU ward, in a hospital, and it can happen even on a snowy mountain in an emergency hut, that suddenly our beliefs that held us back could start to change almost at the speed of light.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think it's really important for everybody who gets the power of beliefs to actually spend some time thinking about what do you actually believe? And if you are feeling held back in your life right now, and you're feeling like you're not moving forward or you're feeling stuck or whatever, don't look outside yourself. Look inside yourself and ask yourself, what

[Podcast Announcer]

do I believe is true or possible for me?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And if you can't, and if it is a belief that's holding you back, you use this to help strengthen, moving yourself forward.

[Sean Achor]

I love that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love that, too. The last great belief that we need to strengthen is believing in something that's bigger than you. The final core belief that there is something greater than me versus there is nothing greater than me. And what does that mean?

[Sean Achor]

Well, it's actually one of the most powerful and predictive beliefs that we have. The belief that there's something greater than ourselves. And I knew that I was gonna get pushback by putting it in the book. People would say, you're writing a science book. Stay in your lane. But.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But you tell people, if you want to skip this chapter, you can.

[Sean Achor]

You can skip this chapter. You can focus on the other beliefs for sure. But from a scientific perspective, religious beliefs are actually neurologically different. What that means is we can tell on a brain scan if you're having a belief about something that's supernatural versus you're having an ordinary belief, you can actually tell the quality and difference of beliefs based upon this. And we also know that it's highly predictive of how long someone lives, how much social connection they feel, how Much joy they feel if they believe in

[Oprah Winfrey]

something bigger than themselves.

[Sean Achor]

Bigger than themselves. I had a Harvard professor who said that who didn't believe in God. But he said, if you can. If you can get religion, do it, because it so highly correlates with higher levels of happiness. But what I find fascinating is you started with the introduction about believing that you are a child of God. In 2000, 5% of people claimed that they did not believe in a God. Today it's 24%. There's been a massive shift that's occurred within our world. Maybe up to 24% of people who don't believe now that they're a child of God when they might have back in 2000. And it changes who we are. My greatest hope is that there is something greater than us and that there is an afterlife, because I believe justice is impossible if this world gets the last word. But also, I'm a scientist, and if I'm looking at the sun and someone who's a scientist who doesn't believe in God looks at the sun, we both see a ball of burning plasma. But when I see that sun, I also see something that was created by, I believe, a loving God. And that belief activates all of the other core beliefs that we have in psychology. It changes the belief that I am not alone, that I matter, that my behavior matters, that I have something to give, that I have something to be grateful for. When we believe that there's something greater than us, it pushes us to become greater than ourselves.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Amen.

[Dr. Hunter Finn]

Amen.

[Dr. Hagel]

For us.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Amen.

[Melanie]

Amen.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Beautiful

[Nicole]

body.

[Sean Achor]

God's child.

[Oprah Winfrey]

God's child. God's child. Thank you all for being here, for talking about beliefs. I hope you think about it. I hope you think about it, and I hope it makes you think about your life differently and look at what you believe in, to let that propel you to become everything that you know you deserve to be. Because I believe that we're all created to do exactly what you said, to serve. And, you know, since I was a little girl speaking in the church, when I was like 3, 4 years old, my first Easter speech, people used to say, oh, Hattie May. That was my grandmother. This is a talking child. This child can talk. This child can talk. But what I realized I was really doing, I was being an inspiration. My role is to be an inspiration, to be a sweet inspiration. And that is the thread that's carried me my whole life. And so that is true for me. Everybody has one. You have whatever you were as a little girl that showed up for you, whatever showed up for you as a young boy, and that thread has carried you to this day. And if you were to die tomorrow, the people who know you the best would say, oh, that's why you were here. But it's really your job to know that that's why you're here. And when you know that's your job, you let every step move you in the direction. You just don't let anything take you off the course of who you were meant to be. Because every one of us is here for the offering that we have to give to each other. And it shows up in different ways

[Podcast Announcer]

for all of us.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So thank you for being here. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Thank you beautiful. Thank you for the Power of Beliefs. Sean Akor thank you. It's been wonderful to see you again.

[Sean Achor]

So great to see you and to

[Oprah Winfrey]

hear what a great dad you are. Power of Beliefs thanks everybody.

[Simone]

Thank you.

[Podcast Announcer]

Sean Achor's new book, the Power of Beliefs, highlights how consistent, healthier choices today can lead to more vibrant, happier life down the road for people. Our friends at the Farmer's Dog are doing the same for dogs. Their fresh food is clinically shown to help dogs age well, giving you more good years together. I've been feeding the Farmer's dog to my cocker spaniel, Sadie for some time now, so I know how beneficial it is for our pups. Our thanks to the Farmer's Dog for presenting today's episode. If you're ready to challenge the limits of what you believe is possible for your life, get a copy of Sean Acor's new book, the Power of How Strengthening seven Core Beliefs Predicts Greater Success and a Better Life. The QR Code is right there on your screen. It's the kind of book that can shift your mindset and inspire you to dream a little bigger. If you or someone you love feel stuck, this is a simple and practical guide to change that. You can buy it right now. Just scan the QR Code on your screen. Our listeners tell us that the podcast is resonating with you and is serving as a bright spot in your day. That means a lot to me. So here's the thing. I would really appreciate it if you like and subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube or wherever you podcast. It's just a quick tap of the subscribe button and that way you won't miss an episode in your queue. You don't have to pay anything. I know subscribe usually means you're paying something, but this time it means you just are notified when there's something new. There are many more to come that we're excited about, so thank you for watching and listening.