You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want

Summary

The Oprah Podcast: "You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want" - Detailed Summary

Release Date: February 25, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want," Oprah Winfrey hosts Dr. Tama Bryant, a clinical psychologist, professor of psychology at Pepperdine University, ordained minister, and author of Matters of the Heart. The conversation delves deep into healing relationships with loved ones and, crucially, with oneself. Dr. Bryant shares invaluable insights on topics such as self-compassion, setting boundaries, and overcoming betrayal.

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1. Welcoming Dr. Tama Bryant

Oprah introduces Dr. Tama Bryant, highlighting his impressive credentials and his latest book, Matters of the Heart: Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love. She emphasizes the book's relevance for anyone navigating different phases of life, offering wisdom on setting boundaries, forgiving without apologies, and fostering healthy relationships.

Notable Quote:

"The holiness of no. No is a sacred word."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [00:35]

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2. Understanding Betrayal and Its Impact

The discussion begins with the profound effects of betrayal on an individual's spirit. Dr. Bryant explains that betrayal depletes one's energy and spirit, emphasizing that often, people grieve not the relationship itself but their idealized version of it.

Notable Quotes:

"You are not actually grieving the relationship. You're grieving your idea of what you thought the relationship would be."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [00:26]

"It's the absolute counter opposite of having self-compassion."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [08:42]

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3. Self-Compassion and Self-Care

A significant portion of the conversation centers on self-compassion—the practice of being kind and understanding toward oneself. Dr. Bryant underscores the importance of self-acceptance and recognizing one's multifaceted emotions and identities.

Notable Quotes:

"To be compassionate towards yourself means... to look at yourself with honesty and appreciation."
— Oprah Winfrey [06:27]

"A big part of it is self-acceptance and recognizing you can feel more than one thing at the same time."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [07:43]

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4. Setting Boundaries and the Power of 'No'

Dr. Bryant advocates for the sanctity of saying "no," framing it as a sacred act essential for self-preservation and healthy relationships. Oprah resonates with this concept, highlighting its alignment with spiritual practices.

Notable Quotes:

"The holiness of no. No is a sacred word."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [00:35]

"The reality is that if we don't stop ourselves, our bodies or minds will stop us."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [10:47]

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5. Real-Life Listener Stories and Healing Journeys

a. Avery's Story: Overcoming Betrayal

Avery, a 27-year-old who recently moved to Colorado, shares her experience of betrayal after discovering her partner had another girlfriend. This led her to adopt an avoidant attachment style, making it challenging to form new relationships.

Key Insights:

• Grieving the loss of the envisioned relationship.
• Releasing self-blame and understanding that the betrayal was a reflection of the other person's character, not Avery's worth.

Notable Quotes:

"You are grieving your idea of what you thought the relationship would be."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [17:22]

"The person who could have made it be different is the other person."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [18:25]

b. Nastasia's Story: Building Meaningful Friendships

Nastasia from Chicago expresses her struggles in cultivating deep, intimate friendships. As a wife and mother, she finds balancing family responsibilities with personal connections challenging, further complicated by perfectionism stemming from her mother's passing when she was 16.

Key Insights:

• The importance of quality over quantity in friendships.
• Overcoming fear of vulnerability to build authentic relationships.

Notable Quotes:

"You are worthy of friendship, that you are worthy of sisterhood."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [25:27]

"Transparency is contagious."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [28:31]

c. Portia's Story: Identity Crisis and Rebuilding Self

Portia, a teenage mother who pursued a demanding nursing career, recounts her realization that she had been neglecting her personal life to achieve professional success. This led to an identity crisis upon stepping back from her career to focus on her family.

Key Insights:

• The struggle of defining self-worth beyond professional achievements.
• Embracing stillness and self-care to rebuild one's identity.

Notable Quotes:

"Healing myself is not just from doctoral studies or reading books, but having lived it."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [03:12]

"You're not boring; you're just not used to ease."
— Oprah Winfrey [37:37]

d. Stevie's Story: Balancing Familial Obligations

Stevie, the eldest of nine siblings, discusses her perpetual sense of obligation to her family, taking on a maternal role after their mother's abandonment. This has led to feelings of resentment and difficulty in setting boundaries.

Key Insights:

• Recognizing and resigning from overly burdensome familial roles.
• Embracing the power of saying "no" to preserve personal well-being.

Notable Quotes:

"Nothing will ever be enough if they see you as their resource."
— Oprah Winfrey [45:40]

"No is a sacred word."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [49:07]

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6. The Importance of Living a Meaningful, Soulful Life

Later in the episode, Dr. Bryant elaborates on what constitutes a meaningful life. He ties his insights to his first book, Homecoming, emphasizing living authentically and soulful living that nourishes both oneself and others.

Key Insights:

• Living from a soulful, authentic place leads to personal fulfillment and positive impact.
• The concept of "fruitfulness" in one's actions—engaging in activities that rejuvenate rather than deplete.

Notable Quotes:

"Living from a soulful, authentic place... I am fully alive."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [52:28]

"You are fed even as you pour."
— Oprah Winfrey [54:42]

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7. Concluding Insights and Encouragement

As the episode wraps up, Oprah and Dr. Bryant reiterate the importance of self-worth and the ongoing journey of healing. They encourage listeners to embrace their worthiness, set healthy boundaries, and cultivate meaningful relationships.

Notable Quotes:

"You are already worthy. You already are worthy."
— Oprah Winfrey [39:42]

"When you are nourished, then it won't drain you or empty you to share."
— Dr. Tama Bryant [49:30]

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Final Thoughts

"You’re WORTHY of the Life You Want" offers profound insights into personal healing and the cultivation of healthy relationships. Through personal stories and expert guidance, Oprah and Dr. Bryant empower listeners to recognize their inherent worth, set necessary boundaries, and engage in self-compassion. The episode serves as a beacon for anyone seeking to lead a more fulfilling and authentic life.

Book Mention: Matters of the Heart: Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love by Dr. Tama Bryant is recommended for further exploration of the topics discussed.

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Stay Connected

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Transcript

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hello and thank you for listening to the Oprah Podcast. Hello to you watching on YouTube. We are diving into today healing relationships with our loved ones and the one that matters the most, our relationship with ourselves. It's the ultimate. I want you to welcome with me Dr. Tama Bryant. Can we just speak a minute about what betrayal does to the spirit?

[Avery]

It's depleting, I'll tell you that much.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

You are not actually grieving the relationship. You're grieving your idea of what you thought the relationship would be.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That is so powerful.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

For too long, we are made to believe that we must say yes to everything. And I want to tell you the holiness of no. No is a sacred word.

[Oprah Winfrey]

A holiness of no. I like that. I heard that. Let the church say amen. A graduate of Duke University, Dr. Tama Bryant, who goes by Dr. Tamara. He is a clinical psychologist, a professor of psychology at Pepperdine University, and an ordained minister.

[Podcast Host]

Dr. Tama is the author of three.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Books and is the host of the.

[Podcast Host]

Popular the Homecoming podcast, which raises awareness about mental health.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Your latest book is called Matters of the Heart, which I was even so touched by the title, Matters of the Heart, healing your relationship with yourself and those you love. And let me say to all of you who are watching or listening, this book is a treasure. It's a treasure trove of wisdom for any phase of your life. And we have you covered on this episode. Whatever you're going through. Dr. Tama talks about how to set better boundaries. Forgiving without receiving an apology. Yes, I'm gonna say that again. Forgiving without receiving an apology. Don't we all want to know how to do that? Investing deeper in your current relationships and releasing those in your life who just are not healthy for you to let them, as Mel Robbins said on a previous podcast, to let them go. And you start the book with this. I love this so much. I come to this work as your facilitator. You say someone who has experience living with a full heart, living a busy life with a neglected heart, going through the deep sea, diving of living with a broken heart and tenderly and compassionately healing my heart. Why did you need to heal your own heart?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

There were. First of all, I want to say thank you, Oprah, for having me. This is so wonderful and something I have been looking forward to being able to share this work with the public because many of us are walking around with broken hearts. And I like to say my understanding of healing my heart is not just from doctoral studies or reading books, but having lived it. So to know firsthand that it's possible to heal our hearts the first way I would say my heart was broken is something I know you can relate to the realities of racism and sexism that cause us to not see our own beauty.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And so to be broken hearted as a chocolate girl in Baltimore, to not be able to see the full glory of who I am. And so I had to heal my sense of myself because of all of the messages that bombard us very early to say that we're not enough. And then moving further along. While I was in high school, my father was elected to be a bishop in the AME Church we moved to.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Can I just stop everybody right now? Because I have known you since you were a little girl.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That's right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because Bethel AME Church, y'all, in Baltimore was the center of our. Not just the city, but the spiritual culture for the city.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That's right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And when I first moved from my father's house in Nashville and moved to Baltimore, the first thing he said to me was, find yourself a church home. And Bethel became my church home. And I used to sit in. I used to come to 8:00 service. That's right. Because you couldn't get in at 11 o'clock service. I used to drive all the way from Columbia, Maryland. And I would be mesmerized by your father and your mother. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

And your mother.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And you were just an itty bitty.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

I was a little bitty. That's why like 7, 8 years old, seeing you. And we would see you on the news.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And then see you at church, which is such a great example for us to know what's possible.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That this reflection is more than attainable.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did I ever tell you this? That I became a tither at Bethel? It became my stabilizing force. Being a 22 year old girl moving to a city and not knowing anybody. That was not just my church home. It became my home, my community, my people.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It was everything for me.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

It is everything. Community is so important for us. Healing. And so that was a part of me. Talk about the broken heart. When I was a college student at Duke University, I came home to Baltimore for a visit and a member of our church sexually assaulted me. You talk about heartbreak. Yes, heartbreak. It is that break of trust when you think you're safe in someone's presence.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Or we assume, you know, if you're in a faith community, everyone is going to be caring and loving. And so that was like a disruption. I'll say before that, I was a straight A student. And for the first time, like, I couldn't focus, I couldn't concentrate. I had to go speak to a dean. And there was one black dean at Duke University who had the same last name, Dean Bryant. And I just came to her in all of my despair and had to heal my heart. So this has been a long journey up until this year, this past year, the passing of my mother. Right. Which is another heartbreak. But I love what you shared in a prior episode of they Never Leave Us. They never leave Us. And I definitely feel her presence today, every day when I.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You should feel it even. It's different.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes, it's different. Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But it's there and it's real.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

She's there. Yeah. So that feels good.

[Oprah Winfrey]

In chapter one of Matters of the Heart, you reinforce for us the importance of self compassion. And you define it this way. To be compassionate towards yourself means, I love this. You've created space for the fullness of your complex identity and your complicated life, including your fractured heart. The aim is to be able to look at yourself with honesty and appreciation. And the reason why it stopped me in my tracks, because I thought, wow, so many people are walking around with fractured hearts.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes. Yes. We have so many layers and parts of ourselves that we discard or that we hide because we desire to be acceptable.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

So it's like, what part of me did I tuck away in order for other people to give validation or approval.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And so gathering those broken pieces so I can be wholly me.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the essence of Matters of the heart, may I share with you all, is that you gotta take care of yourself first. You gotta practice compassion for yourself first before you can begin to give it to other people. And what is the best way for people to practice self compassion, Dr. Tama?

[Stevie]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

A big part of it is self acceptance and recognizing. You can feel more than one thing at the same time, and you can be more than one thing at the same time. Sometimes we don't give ourselves grace because we have this idea of perfection that doesn't leave room for our humanity. So I can have compassion on myself. I say, if you look far enough back at your story, your dips and dives and falls make sense. Sometimes we don't look at ourselves in context so we're like, why did I do that? Or I'm so stupid or what's wrong with me? But if you tell me the fullness of your story, where you landed made.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Sense, and then you talk about this, overextending yourself results in depletion I mean, we have seen that over and over and over again, particularly in our community where women have given and given and given and there is nothing left.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Nothing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And then don't understand why they are depleted. But you're saying that is the absolute counter opposite of having self compassion. But how do you. This is the thing. I was reading that and I was thinking about all the people who were saying, easy for you to say Oprah. Easy for you to say, Dr. Taima, give yourself self compassion. When you are the number one breadwinner, when you are the one taking care of everybody and there's nobody there to take care of you, where is there room for self compassion?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Right. What I say to that is your current way of living is unsustainable. And so we self destruct. And even when we say, I don't have time to heal, even we'll say, I'm too busy to be depressed. Well, depression will catch you no matter how busy you are. And so what it becomes is it's necessary for us to train our eyes to see the ways that it's showing up. So it might not look like so, for example, with black women, sometimes our despair shows up as irritability. So then people say, you have a bad attitude. No, she's in despair. But if I am harsh, if I am hardworking, if I'm a workaholic, if I'm a perfectionist, if I'm busy all the time, other people will celebrate that. But I'm empty on the inside. So it becomes not valuing myself because everybody else is saying, good job. But when I lay myself down at night, then what do I say and what do I feel? And I choose to pour into myself so that it can actually be, well.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So what should you be pouring? Should you be pouring prayer? Should be pouring. Preparing, you know, pouring in silence. What should you be pouring in? Yes. Yeah. So there are, because I think so many. And we're speaking to all of you who are just overwhelmed. You're overwhelmed and depleted.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes. Yes. So one of the things that we pour in is rest and stillness. And many of us don't know how to be still. And we will say to ourselves, I don't have time to be still.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I don't have time.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Right. I have to do a million things. And the reality is that if we don't stop ourselves, our bodies or minds will stop us. And that's what we see happen time and time again.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Bodies meaning illness.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes. So we get sick. And we know, you know, one of the things that research Shows is the way our autoimmune disorders and systems for women, when we suppress our anger, we suppress our feeling, we neglect ourselves. And it shows up in the body. And so then, now you have to be still. Now you have to be still.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know. I heard another scientist say the sickness often is your body's way of saying, time out. I'm done. I'm done. I don't have anything else to do. Yes.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And then it shows up in our minds and our mental health.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

So you mentioned prayer. And our spiritual practice is important, and it has to come from an authentic place. Sometimes we're doing public relations in our prayers, like these and thou's, and we want it to sound holy, but in order for it to be effective, it has to be honest.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Right. And so for us to be true in our prayers. And I'm gonna say, even for meditation, and some people say, oh, I don't know if meditation is against my religion. Being still. Being still and silent is against your religion. So for us to tune into our breath, add into our bodies, and then our food affects our mood. And so what do I nourish myself? What do. And I like to say, I'm eating this. Cause I love myself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

I'm eating this because I want to live right. And so then feeding myself, loving relationships.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think one of the things that I really appreciated about matters of heart is that it's not like flipping a switch and all of a sudden you're gonna do everything. It's about taking small steps.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That's right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

To begin to see yourself differently so that you can then actually know and acknowledge what it is. You need to begin to take care of yourself. Because I think so many people haven't.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Even asked themselves the question of what they actually need. And I want to also say, for us to have compassion means when I get it wrong or when I fall off the track, I don't say, well, now it doesn't matter. Like, everything is ruined.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Is I start again. I begin again.

[Podcast Host]

I'm so glad you joined me for this episode of the Oprah podcast. When we come back, Dr. Tama and I talk about how to heal after a betrayal. I think that's an issue so many people can relate to. That's coming up after the break.

[Sponsor]

This episode of the Oprah podcast is sponsored in part by netsuite, by Oracle. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers. Rates will rise. Rates will fall. Inflation's up or down. Can someone please invent a crystal ball. Until then, over 41,000 businesses have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle. Bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. With real time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's next. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and sees your biggest opportunities. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning for free at netsuite.com Oprah that's netsuite.com Oprah netsuite.com Oprah thank you.

[Podcast Host]

For joining us on the Oprah Podcast. I am so happy you're here. And I'm back with relationship expert Dr. Tamar Bryant, author of Matters of the Heart. And we're about to hear some very personal stories from viewers and listeners who say they are struggling on their path to healing. So let's get to it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I am so happy that there's so many people here who are interested in the healing process because we heard a lot of people who are in need of improving themselves. Some who are joining us on ZOOM today, Avery is one of those people. Avery, I hear you're 27. You recently moved to Colorado for a fresh start after experiencing a betrayal. The kind, you know, we keep hearing about more and more about. Betrayal leaves you devastated, doesn't it? Dr. Tama, can we just, can we just speak a minute about what betrayal does to the spirit?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Avery]

It's depleting, I'll tell you that much. But hi, thank you for having me. Lovely to see you both. Yes. I just moved back to Denver. I'm originally from Colorado after a pretty depleting heart heartache. And it was about two years ago on the dot. So I'd say we're, we're on the up and up for sure.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're on the up and up. Okay. What did you Want to ask?

[Avery]

Dr. Tamara so I guess my biggest thing is after you go through a heartache, you know, I lived with my ex. We were buying a house together, and we were together for three years. And when I found out that he basically had a whole other girlfriend.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And how'd you find out? Was it through phone?

[Avery]

It was through video game messages and then phone and then Instagram.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Phones have revealed a lot in this world, a lot of people got messed up with. The phones. Go ahead.

[Avery]

Yes, the phones. The phones are destroying a lot of relationships. But anyway. Yeah. And so I guess after that happened, my biggest thing is I really gained this avoidant attachment style where, you know, nice people will come into my life and I would, you know, brush them away or break up with them too soon to even give them a chance. All because, you know, if I do the breaking up with, then I can't get hurt kind of thing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Avery]

And I guess it's, you know, I think there's plenty of women in the world that struggle with this after heartache where you would rather just be alone than ever go through that feeling again. And I think that's something to try to work through.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yeah. Thank you so much for your transparency and for sharing your heartbreak. The first thing I want to say to you is you are not actually grieving the relationship. You're grieving your idea of what you thought the relationship would be, because in reality, he was not who you thought he was. And so the relationship is not actually one that was mutually nourishing, mutually respectful, mutually edifying. And so it missed.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That clarification helps, right?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That it's not actually you miss them. It's you miss your idea of who you thought they were. Right.

[Avery]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And then, you know, when we talk about the aftermath, sometimes we create a story about why it happened because we want things to make sense. And so in your story creation of why it happened, you may be looking at yourself or blaming yourself or shaming yourself when the truth of it really may have nothing to do with you. It may be that he had or he or she had access. It may be just for fun. It may be that they were socialized to never be faithful and have not been faithful their whole lives. And so sometimes we try to. It's an illusion of control. If I figure out what I did wrong and I do it different this time, I'll be safe. And so I invite you to release yourself from the lie that you could have made it be different.

[Avery]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

The person who could have made it be different is the other person. Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That is so powerful. Yeah. I could see that hit you, and it landed. Is that you realize in that moment that Dr. Taymoy was talking that you are grieving the idea that you had of him, because who he really was, who he really is, is the guy who betrayed you.

[Avery]

Right. Yeah. And, you know, when you're working through those feelings, you can go to therapy every single day, but you're still like, what could I have done differently? Like, why did this happen?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Not one thing.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

We desire. Yeah. We desire the control. And let me say, the part of you that was immediately like, I don't want relationships again, is actually a healthy part. It's good to be still after a breakup. Sometimes people jump right out there and they go, pick a new person. Different name, different face, same personality, same cycle.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

So it's an indication of healthiness to pause. And then it's an indication that you've started healing when a part of you now desires relationship again. Right. Because before you didn't want it. Now you're like, maybe it would be nice. So that's your heart starting to open back up again and to not sabotage it. I know you talk about running, especially if you are feel moved by them because it doesn't feel safe. But while part of our healing happens individually, like by ourselves, and part of it happens in therapy, a part of your heart's healing will only take place actually in healthy, loving relationship. That's when you will really grasp some of the triggers to learn how to show up and not run. It's gonna happen in that process. And so giving yourself the patience and permission to try again, to not let the ex rob you of the realities.

[Avery]

Of love right now, that's so powerful. Thank you for saying that. I agree with that. Where it brings out the triggers in me when I am talking to someone, that's very healthy. And so it's just healing your heart and working through that together if they're willing to, or doing the work on your own.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

So I appreciate that, Avery, the fact.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That he cheated on you with those eyes that match your sweater. I don't even know what to say. I don't even know what to say.

[Avery]

Coming from you, that really makes my heart melt.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I want to say bye, boy. Boy.

[Sponsor]

Bye.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Okay.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That is the truth. Thank you so much, Avery. Thank you.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Thank you. Have a great rest of your day.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love the fact that you say it matters of the heart that you have a whole chapter, actually, that experiencing infidelity, which Avery's been going through and grieving this past two years, is really a form of loss and grief and trauma.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That's right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's not just infidelity. It is a major thing to be.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Betrayed and a part of our healing community is so important. And so that's one of the things I love about you and Gayle sharing her journey of what a difference it made for you to show up as sister, as both truth teller, but also with that Compassion. Because when we're in those moments, we need to be reminded who we are and reminded of our worth. And so what better people to do that than people who genuinely care about you?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Absolutely. You need somebody there to tell you the truth.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That's right, yes. So that you don't end up with the lie of, I'm worthy, I'm not attractive enough, I'm not interesting enough.

[Oprah Winfrey]

All of.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

All of the lies of not enoughness.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the level of betrayal sometimes is so, you know, profound that you're just like, girl, please.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes, yes, yes. So it can disrupt your life, of how you thought your life was going to be. You know, you imagined a future with this person and felt secure in that. And so a part of it is what you think about not only in terms of the other person, but your picture of yourself. And so one of the things I like to shift for people is not thinking about the ending of all relationships as a failure. Some people are like, oh, it failed. Sometimes leaving a relationship is a success.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You won. That's your triumph.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes, yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And I really, really, really. It resonated with me, and I'm sure a lot of you, too, listening to us. What you said to Avery about you are grieving the man you wanted him to be.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes, absolutely. And sometimes we fall for potential of, like, if only this, if only that, if only these five things, you would be my dream person. And so we have to look at the truth of who this person is, and do I really want the truth of that?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And I think for Avery and for anybody else who's going through this, that to get the truth of it helps the healing not of your own heart.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

She's gonna come through it and gonna be stronger and better.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That's right. That's right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Than whoever shows up next.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So Stevie is joining us. Stevie's a wife and mother to a toddler. Hi, Stevie.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

I hear you'd like.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hi, Stevie. I heard that you wanted to deepen female relationships in your life. What's going on with you?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Nastasia]

So friendships are a little challenging for me right now. I'm in my 30s. I'm surrounded by a lot of community and a lot of people, but I really am more focused on quality of friendships than quantity. I'm hoping that I can have more valuable, intimate relationships and friendships at this stage in my life. I'm a wife and a mom now, but things kind of feel high stakes for me in my life, and I am a bit of a perfectionist, so that can kind of be debilitating. For me at times with new friendships because I'm afraid I'm not going to show up for them the way that they need or I'm going to feel at them. So that's been a bit of a stumbling block. And, you know, growing up, I saw so many black friendships on television. Black women who would kiki together and have a good time and then cry on each other's shoulders. And I don't really feel like I have a working framework for that in real life, what that looks like to be. To fall apart, to be vulnerable, to be there in those challenging times. Kind of listening to you, too, Dr. Tama. My mother passed when I was 16, so some of those formative moments weren't there, So I never got to see that in person. So, yeah, I think that's where I am right now.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do you have a question?

[Nastasia]

My question is kind of, how do I reconcile with this when I want to nourish the friendships and show up for my friends that I currently have and meeting new people at this stage in my life?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yeah, thank you for the question. And the first thing I want to speak to is the younger version of you and that part of you who has been disappointed. The part of you that was not chosen, the part of you that was not embraced. The part of you that has never been sistered, the part of you that misses being mothered, the part of you that feels you have to be perfect and that people will abandon you or leave you or reject you if you are not perfect. And I want to say to you that that is a lie, that you are worthy of friendship, that you are worthy of sisterhood, and that real sisters do not require your perfection, and they will meet you where you are. And so, instead of hiding or being afraid to consider what it will mean to be known, to be seen, to be heard, to be validated, to be celebrated, to be appreciated. There are women in your city waiting to sister you. There are women in your city waiting to sister you authentically. And so what happens is our anxiety causes us to isolate and to hide and to block our blessing. And so you affirm to yourself, I will not block the love of a sister that is trying to find me, and I will not have to be perfect for them. You know, with strangers, we have to do public relations. How are you? I'm fine. How are you? I'm blessed. I'm better than blessed. But with my sisters, as you said, I can unfold and say, you know what? I'm tired. You know what I'm Confused. You know what? I'm fed up. And so that is what your soul desires. So I'm so glad by you questioning it, it means you're ready. It means you're ready to stop fighting it, ready to stop running from it. You're ready to receive it. And so this is your season for.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That wow preach this evening. Whoa. The fact that she is questioning it, it's just like you said to Avery before. The fact that you're now thinking about now, maybe I'm ready to be interested in somebody else, means the healing has taken place.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So the fact that you are in this space, isn't that a wow aha for you? The fact that you in the space of asking the question means that you are spiritually, emotionally, psychologically getting yourself ready for this season that is yours to come.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And I want you to know transparency is contagious. So if you meet people and stay very surface about brunch or about shopping, that's where it will stay. But as soon as you deepen it, there are people who will meet you there at the level of your depth, and then they'll say, me too, me too. So be open to it. But then as you're connecting with people, let them actually meet you. Not a performance.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[Nastasia]

Thank you.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

You are so welcome. I'm excited about seeing you and your girlfriends.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, I'm really excited for you. Yes, I'm excited for you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Stevie. I could see. I could see that that message from Dr. Tama just blessed you right now and all of us who were able to witness it, feel the blessing.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Nastasia]

Thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, go with it. Yes, go with it. Thank you, Stevie. Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Coming up, Dr. Tama explains why so many of us can get caught up in the distractions in our daily lives, like taking care of kids or building careers or focusing on life's challenges instead of taking care of ourselves and our wellness sometime hard to do, I gotta say. I know. So many of us do that, don't we? We'll talk about that next.

[Sponsor]

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[Podcast Host]

We're learning how to heal our relationships with others and ourselves. Author Dr. Tama Bryant is here and.

[Oprah Winfrey]

She is just full of wisdom.

[Podcast Host]

On this episode of the Oprah podcast, we have.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You did that thing right there. That was. That was so excellent. Thank you. We have Nastasia joining us from Chicago. Hey, welcome. I hear you. Hi. How's Chicago? Where are you?

[Portia]

So I'm in a south suburb of Chicago, Homer Glen, near Orland Park.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, I know where that is. And I hear after 15 years of nursing and caring for others that you have now come to a revelation about yourself and the matters of your heart. Tell us what that is. What happened?

[Portia]

Yeah. Yeah. So thank you, Oprah and Dr. Thama for having me here today and this, and really this platform, this podcast. So I'm on an emotional healing journey with myself. I became a teen mom at the age of 16, and while my daughter Caitlin was an absolute blessing, she literally saved my life because I was on a bad path as a teenager. But I struggled with kind of my sense of self worth and trying to prove myself, kind of trying to beat that stigma or that being another statistic in terms of a teen mom. So I really just pushed myself into my nursing career, working full time, going to school, and then going all the way to the end. I got my terminal degree, my doctorate in nursing, which I'm extremely proud of. But in that process, I neglected the people that mattered the most, which was my family. And I remember this aha moment, as you say, Oprah, where husband Dale, who's an amazing man, and we speak to each other from a place of love and honesty, he said to me, I feel like you treat your patients better than you treat your family. And it was in that moment that I was like, oh, my God, I am pouring so much in to others and service that by the time I come home, I'm empty and I am not showing up as my best self to the people that matter the most. And so it was really hard. But I decided that I would make a career shift so that I could give to these non professional aspects of my life. Um, and then, but then I found myself in another predicament. I was in this like, identity crisis. You know, for 15 plus years, I've been a nurse. I've been a nurse practitioner, but now that I'm not in that role, and I'm not directly doing that, it was kind of like, who am I, you know, who is nostalgia?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Thank you for speaking this truth. And for many of us, achievement is easier than relationship. So even though you worked hard to get your doctorate, that was actually easier than showing up in that personal space. It's very by the book. I memorize the terms. I apply the terms.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And it's so interesting you saying that, because I noticed this with a lot of my daughter girls who come to school from South Africa to go to college here, where achievement becomes the thing, achievement becomes their identity, achievement. I had one of my daughter girls who's now a doctor at UPenn, but went to Spelman, graduated summa cum laude, got 1B and fell apart over 1B. Because the identity was, I'm a straight A student. Because I said it's a B.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And she goes, but I'm a straight my worth. That means I'm good.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's right. And so what I have found with a number of my girls is that because so much emphasis has been put on the academics and achieving and being success, and you're the first in your family and all of that, they're not as good with the relationships.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Because all the energy goes into making yourself the successful person.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yeah. And I wonder what is the lie that you were told or that you believed about teen mothers.

[Portia]

Yeah. I just remember, you know, going to pick up my daughter.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[Portia]

And they'd be like, where's. Where's Caitlin's mom at? You know, And I'd be like, I'm here. They're like, no, no, no. Where's Caitlin's mom? And I'm like, it's me. I'm here. And it was just like, I guess not being seen.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yeah.

[Portia]

Or not even being, you know, thought of that this is the person that is raising this wonderful human being and, like, doing everything in her power, working two jobs, going to school, staying up late at night just to provide a better life for her. So I think that's where it felt like I tried to prove that I'm worthy enough to be there.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That invisibility. And I'm going to say the relationship that led to the teen pregnancy. Let's just pause there. Mm. So that relationship and then people's response to you of not seeing you as a capable mother, just ruling you out, eliminating you because of your age, that you have been chasing enoughness since then, and that's been many, many years. And so now what has happened is healing and ease feel uncomfortable to you. That's why you think you're bored. That's what ease feels like. It's not boring. It's not boring.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Aha. Aha. High five yourself. Yeah, I know that hit a nerve right there. Oh.

[Portia]

When you were talking about being still and pausing. I have had the hardest time being still and pausing. And you would think that'd be easy, right? I'm gonna leave my career that's so demanding. I'm going to switch gears. I'm going to be home more, and I can't be still.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yeah. Yeah. Because everything you've been running from all these years shows up in the stillness, shows up in the silence. So you stay busy, we stay distracted, and we think that's whole. Right. We think we're healed, but you're just distracted and busy. And so now you get to be the nurse to yourself. Yeah. And retrain your nervous system, because your nervous system doesn't know how to be settled. And so as you learn to settle, then you'll be able to show up for yourself and for your loved ones. And you are capable and deserving of that. It's just different. So the same way you would be patient with a new nurse is how we have to be patient with ourselves, because this thing is new, but it's doable, and you and your family deserve that.

[Stevie]

Wow.

[Portia]

Thank you. I, you know, the question was, how do I start to rebuild myself? And I feel like now I think you've given me, like, the tools or the foundation. Start, like, getting to know Nastasia, start loving myself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think. I think she. What. What happened here was an opportunity to see yourself from the point of view of what's really been happening with yourself. I really appreciate it when you said you're not bored, you're just not used to ease. Yes. And you think being still means I'm bored? Because I have to prove I have to prove I have to do. I have to show I have to, you know. Yes.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

So getting to know yourself. Right. And that this is for the first time in your life that you get to actually discover you. And it's not too late. When I talk about returning back to ourselves or healing ourselves, sometimes it's healing myself for the first time. So you're actually not trying to go back to a former self. You've never been this woman that you are creating now, but you get to build her. How beautiful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I'm so glad this is on tape because you're getting so many ahas so quickly that you're not even gonna remember everything she said. I can see you're like, okay, what did she just say? What did she. Okay. Yeah, it's all on tape, so you don't have to write it down. But I can see that it's hitting you like, you're like, huh, huh, huh. We got. As I said, we got you here. We got you.

[Portia]

I feel it. And I don't know if it's because I'm turning 40 and, you know this big number is coming, but I just feel like it's just something I just. I have to deal with, and it's hitting me fast and. But I feel like you are just speaking to everything that I've been thinking, but I guess scared to come to terms with it. And I feel like the big word is I'm scared. This is a scary space, and it's.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Okay to be afraid. It's okay to not have all the answers. I want to just invite you to do a fill in the blank. So you're going to say, I release blank so I can receive blank.

[Portia]

I. I release this pressure to be perfect so I can be worthy and acceptance of myself and love myself.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Mm.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I want to say you already are worthy. You already are worthy already. But that you can be open to accept your worthiness.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what you want.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yeah. Receive the truth of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You want to be open to accept your worthiness because you have refused to see your value and your worthiness. And all of this happened in one zoom call. This is an amazing thing. This is what happened to you today. Nastasia. Thank you so much.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Beautiful.

[Portia]

Thank you for having me. This has been fantastic. Thank you so much.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Bless you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Lots to think about. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I think that. I think the reason why it's so interesting talking to Nastasia is that she represents so many people in the world. Correct.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

So true.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And that's how often we're trained to, like, chase significance. Like, if I do enough things, I can outlast the statistics. I can outlast people's assumptions. I can outlast my own fears. Like we're trying to outrun ourselves.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And so having to actually slow down so I can be whole.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. Instead of chasing wholeness, I think it's also so important. The question that you asked her, what is the story that you told yourself about being a teen mother? Because she's still carrying that and still trying to prove to those women who were in the room when she was picking up her child. I'm good enough, I'm worthy enough, I'm valuable enough, all of that.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

And so then your armor becomes like your resume, right? You got the degree, she got the position. And so now you're saying, if I lay down my armor, like, how will I know I'm enough? Right. How will I know I'm worthy if you, like, strip these titles from me. You know, it's like the first time I moved, when I first moved to Los Angeles, I moved here without a position. And before that, I had been like, oh, Duke University, Harvard Medical Center, Princeton University. And so then I came here, and it's like, so who are you? Without all of that, you're enough.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Was it hard for you to accept that about yourself?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

So at first, when I came here, I was urgently, urgently on this job hunt. And I always say to people, if I knew then what I know now, I would have enjoyed the break because I was like, just slow down and enjoy it. You're going to find it. So that was hard because it was the first time in my life where I didn't have an affiliation, an institution. And so then, okay, without that, just who are you? And so having to come to terms with that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. Yeah. That's what she's dealing with.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That's right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, Portia's joining us. She's one of nine children, and I hear you shoulder the burden of being the most successful member of your family. Tell us what's going on.

[Stevie]

Thank you so much. It's true. I am the eldest of nine, and we were abandoned by our mother. So I have filled in that role as mother to my siblings. My grandmother raised us, but she worked the entire time. So the relationship I have with my siblings is more of one of a mother child. And now that I have my own child, I find myself feeling obligated. What I'm trying to avoid is I always feel obligated to assist them in a lot of their issues that they're dealing with. And recently, I wasn't able to show up for one of my closest siblings, my little sister, who. She's like my daughter, and I just wasn't able to show up for her. And the treatment that I got from her kind of just left me shocked and kind of heartbroken.

[Oprah Winfrey]

When we're saying little sister, how old?

[Stevie]

I'm 41. She's 35.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so we're not talking about little kids here.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Very important.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. Very important.

[Stevie]

Well, yeah, we're not talking about little. We're talking about Grown women, which are grown women.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I wanted establish that, yes, she's a grown woman.

[Stevie]

And I had a role. You know, all my mother's children have lived with me. And it's like. But now it's like everybody's already had their chance. Everybody's got to stand up. So I told her no, and we're. She just kind of stopped talking to me. And it just devastated me and made me angry. And I'm never angry with them. So I know I need to check myself. And however I'm showing up for them, because there's some kind of dis. There's. The balance is not right. So My question for Dr. Tama is how do I balance my relationship with my siblings, where I show up as a sibling and not as like a savior or. I feel obligated to my family so often. And I don't want to feel that way because it makes me retreat sometimes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[Stevie]

And angry. And I don't want to have that because I so much. But I also need to, because it's showing up in my intimate relationships as well. So my question is, I need some balance and I need to stop feeling obligated. I don't know why I feel that way.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

You feel that way because there was not someone to fill in the gap, and you filled in the gap. But you get to resign from being the mother. Sister. You resign. You turn in your resignation, and now you will be solely the sister. And when we change and when we heal. Some people don't like it when people have been depending on you. They will not appreciate the boundaries. They will not appreciate the. No. But it is not for their benefit or for yours for you to continue to carry people who. It's time that they learn the strength of their own legs and the strength of their own wings. Nothing you do will be enough for people who see you as their resource and don't see you as their sister. So you decide.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Stop right there. Stop right there. That nothing will ever be enough if they see you as their resource. Because it will always be, what else you got? What else you got? What else can you do?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

What else you got?

[Oprah Winfrey]

And that's what you're feeling, and that's what you're resentful and angry about. But your past relationships with them has set this expectation. And so what, Doctor, I'm speaking from experience. I'm a member of this choir, okay? And so you have got to establish that those days are gone. Yes. This is what I used to do, and now this is what I'm willing to do it is a decision on your part and people are going to be mad.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

They're going to be mad.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're not going to get through it without somebody being mad. But you're doing this to save yourself and ultimately to save the relationships that are meant to last.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Right. What you all could actually be. So you get to redefine it. Now, I will do some predictions for you when you step back. Some people will step up. Some people who always said, well, she'll handle it, she'll pay for it, she'll do it. Some people will step up and then some things actually won't get done and you let it fall to the ground. Some people are so dependent on you that when you say, I'm not doing it anymore, some stuff will drop. And that's okay.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You got to let it drop.

[Stevie]

Yeah, Yeah, I do. And the obligation feeling is because I know that I'm blessed to be a blessing. Yes, I understand.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Stevie]

And I have taken myself into another area and I have a home where I also provide 24 hour care for young girls who grew up like myself. And that's where my energy is now because those are people who do not have families and things of that nature. But I. It's this sense of obligation that I really want to work on because if I show up in my family and something's not there, I just feel like I need to fix it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, you know what? I suffered from this for so long. I literally have journals filled with the question of what do I owe? What do I owe and when is it enough? What do I owe and when it is enough? And can you help her answer that question?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes, absolutely. So one you talked about blessed to be a blessing, which is beautiful. And I want to ask, are you a person of faith?

[Stevie]

I am.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Okay. I want to say to you that God or your creator did not make you just to be an instrument for other people's relief. You are not just a vehicle for other people. And I know we like to talk about God, use me up. God says, I'm not a user. I'm not here to use you just to bless others. It's actually to flow into you so you can get from your overflow. When you are nourished, then it won't drain you or empty you to share with those girls in the home that you share with. But for too long, we are made to believe that we must say yes to everything. And that's the Christian thing to do. And I want to tell you and Oprah on today the holiness of no. No is a sacred word. It is a sacred word. And so you are attempting.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did you see Porsche go? I heard that. Let the church say amen.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Amen. Amen.

[Nastasia]

The holiness of no.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I like that. The holiness of no.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

The holiness of no.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Because we're made to feel guilty for our. No, we're made to feel guilty that, like, you have to say yes to everyone and everything to be sufficient to be a good person. That's what you said. How much is enough?

[Podcast Host]

How much is enough?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

I have to keep proving I'm a good person. And so now you know. You get to say yes to yourself. You get to say yes to your relationships. You get to say yes to the young children, the girls you have taken in. But it starts with the nourishment of your own soul. So I want to invite you to start doing morning rituals where you feed your spirit before you start the day so that you do not go through the day running on empty. Feed you first.

[Oprah Winfrey]

This made some sense to you today.

[Stevie]

It's in alignment where my heart's been, so I'm really grateful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Stevie]

I feel blessed.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Beautiful.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do you believe you have the courage now? The courage for the holiness of no.

[Stevie]

I know it. Yes. I know. Little steps. And hearing it from, of course, Oprah, my fairy godmother, of course. It just makes the most sense.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

[Stevie]

I appreciate you all. Thank you so much.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you, Porsche.

[Podcast Host]

When we come back, I'll ask Dr. Tama what it means to live a meaningful life. I want you to think about that question too. That's next.

[I]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Podcast Host]

Welcome back. I thank you for your company. Here on The Oprah podcast, Dr. Tama is about to explain how to be intentional when it comes to healing the relationships in our lives.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you write about the co creating joy. You say it's an inside job that's right for an individual and a collective job for relationships. It is co create joy with the people you love.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

That's right. We have to be intentional so that we don't take relationships for granted or take people for granted. Sometimes we're like, oh, I know those are my folks. But we turn to them more when we're in crisis or in need or we neglect the relationship because we figure they'll always be there. So we have to be intentional about engaging and creating moments and memories with each other that are joy filled. Have to do that on purpose and protect time for it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, this is the thing. You're a therapist, you're a professor.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You're a minister, because you have preached here today. How do you describe a life well lived, a well lived existence? And what are the guideposts? What does a meaningful life look like when you're operating for matters of the heart?

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes. So for matters of the heart, I have to connect it to my first book, which is Homecoming. Because living for me a well nourished life is being at home with yourself, being rooted and grounded from the truth of you. And my dear friend and colleague, Dr. Shelly Harrell describes it as soulfulness. That if I live from a soulful, authentic place, then I am fully alive. And being fully alive and showing up means that I have love for myself, that I have love for other people, that I let that guide the ways in which I show up. And I also, there is fruit to my soulfulness. When I am living from an authentic place, there is impact in the world around me. And so where's your fruit? Right. If I'm living rooted and grounded in the truth of who I am, and that fruit is not a fruit that drains me or depletes me when I'm living my path, that actually renews me and restores me. And so that's the gift of it for me. And my fruitfulness and my soulful living won't look like somebody else's. It's like I meet some people and they say, oh my goodness, you're a trauma survivor and a trauma psychologist. That must be so draining. And I say, no, this work leaves me in awe. Like, I'm inspired to be able to walk with people through that, like, healing process. But for somebody else, it would be draining. Some people who work in a corporate space, they get fed by it because they're called to it. Other people are like, I couldn't do that work. Right. When you talk about doing like all these interviews, for some people, that that sounds like, oh my gosh, you have to talk to people all day and you're like, that's, that's my life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Energizing, stimulating for me. Yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

So live from a soulful, authentic, true place. And in a way that it is regenerative, right. That you are fed even as you pour.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Ooh, I'm going to end on that you are fed even as you pour.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you, Dr. Tamar Bryant, for what feels like sacred wisdom. Well, you come at it naturally. Okay. And I thank you to all of my guests today, Natasha and Stevie and Avery and Porsche. I so appreciate each of you bringing your whole heart to the conversation about matters of the heart. Dr. Tama's book is called Matters of the Heart, healing your relationship with yourself and those you love. And it's available anywhere you buy books. And Dr. Tama reads the audio version herself. So it's like having an ongoing podcast with you. And those of you who want to subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get new podcasts and don't miss a week, go well, everybody. Thank you. Thank you.

[Dr. Tama Bryant]

Thank you so much. Oh, I'm so appreciate it said I have to have to preach it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You can subscribe to the Oprah Podcast on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. I'll see you next week. Thanks, everybody.