110. Why You Keep Hiring the Wrong People

Summary

---

The Ops Experts Club Podcast – Episode 110

Why You Keep Hiring the Wrong People
Hosted by The Collab Team (Aaron, Taryn, Savannah)
Guest: Taylor (Recruiting Specialist)
Date: April 23, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Collab Team dives deep into the hiring headaches faced by entrepreneurs running 7- and 8-figure businesses. They unpack why many companies keep hiring the wrong people, how recruiting should really work, and share practical processes and hard-won insights from working "in the trenches" with top industry names. Special guest Taylor from their recruiting team brings her expertise, breaking down the keys to getting hiring right and highlighting common pitfalls companies make when building their teams.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Realities and Risks of Rushed Hiring

• Many businesses, especially growing ones, approach hiring reactively, focusing on immediate relief for overworked teams rather than finding the right fit.
• “Sometimes the danger can be we just rush out and hire any old Tom, Dick or Sally.”—Aaron (02:13)
• Taryn and the team emphasize starting not from a job title, but from a list of key tasks and outcomes needed. This avoids misalignment and confusion around what the role actually entails.

2. The Collab Team’s Hiring Process

• Identifying Needs:
  Instead of defaulting to preset titles, Taryn starts by asking stakeholders about the outcomes and tasks they want, then builds a tailored job description and, only then, a role title.
  • “I don't like to start with a role title … Let's talk about what you want them to do. We'll build a job description from there.”—Taryn (03:34)
• Crafting the Job Post:
  Taylor receives the job description, tunes the language to attract the right candidates, and posts it centrally (LinkedIn, Indeed), asking the client to funnel traffic there for organization.
  • Centralizing Traffic: “Point all traffic, the same lead source. That's really important…otherwise…it's like monkeys coming at you from everywhere.”—Aaron (04:17)

3. Iterating on Job Posts & Learning from Feedback

• The first set of applicants often reveals what’s missing or off in the job description.
• Taylor actively seeks feedback when candidates aren’t the right fit, then updates the job post and requirements to better target real needs.
  • “When the client starts telling us, ‘No, that's not right…’ usually that's tip of the nose for you to repost.”—Aaron (07:02)
  • “They care about somebody using their CRM… but that's not the person for me.”—Taylor (07:36)

4. The Challenge of Vague Expectations

• Owners often rely on gut instincts or hire friends and family, but that rarely ensures skill fit.
  • “Honestly, that's the way a lot of visionaries hire…Are they a friend? Are they a family? You want somebody you know, love and trust…but are they good at this?”—Aaron (09:11)
• For small teams, hiring can be especially uncertain and requires more iteration.

5. How to Handle High Applicant Volume

• Taylor utilizes LinkedIn's AI and asks screener questions to filter hundreds of applications down to the few worth interviewing.
  • “Are they paying attention to the words that I'm using? Because…you're trying to sell me to hire you, and that's a big deal.”—Taylor (10:32)
• Most applicants drop off—40% show rate is considered good. Flaky applicants and no-shows are a standard part of the grind.

6. Interview Approach & Assessing Tech Stack

• Interviews are tailored to the specific role and guided by both the job description and project-specific needs.
  • “Starting off an interview that is personalized…that drops the guard.”—Taylor (13:21)
• Tech stack experience is often overemphasized; adaptable applicants can usually learn new platforms.
  • “If we're using one CRM…that's a no brainer. They could easily master this one.”—Taryn (14:54)
• Visionaries should avoid letting narrowly defined software experience block otherwise great candidates.

7. Setting Competitive Compensation

• Collab Team compares data across LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor, ZipRecruiter, and more to advise on realistic pay scales.
  • “Industry standard, we're looking across, I think, five different platforms…looking at the median.” —Taylor (16:25)
• Interviewees are directly asked for salary expectations to ground rates in reality.

---

Culture, Role Design & Final Tips

8. Culture and Job Energy Matter

• Culture isn’t just a buzzword—how you phrase a job post and present your organization profoundly influences applicant quality.
  • “Please do not tell people that you want them to work all the time. You're not going to get good applicants.”—Taylor (19:29)
• Avoid “everything-and-the-kitchen-sink” role descriptions to prevent burnout and high turnover.
  • “You might have to split the role…You want to make sure this is a defined role and we know what the outcomes are.”—Taylor (20:04)
• If there’s repetitive turnover in a role, look critically at the role design and company culture.
  • “If you burned through four or five people in this role, it's probably got something to do with the role, not the people.”—Aaron (20:23)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On rushed hiring:
  "Sometimes the danger can be we just rush out and hire any old Tom, Dick or Sally... there can be some real danger in it." —Aaron (02:13)

• On starting with outcomes, not job titles:
  "I don't like to start with a role title...let's talk about what you want them to do. We'll build a job description from there." —Taryn (03:34)

• On resume and post-match:
  “Are they paying attention to the words that I'm using? …I’m really looking for somebody who’s being intentional.” —Taylor (10:32)

• On the reality of flaky candidates:
  “Our ratio is like a 40% show rate. So...that's a great show rate.” —Taylor (12:00)

• On over-defining tech needs:
  “Visionaries kind of get hung up on this tech stack…it's okay, they have enough experience that they can, can do the job.” —Taylor (15:32)

• On culture and turnover:
  “If you burned through four or five people in this role, it's probably got something to do with the role, not the people not being a good culture fit.” —Aaron (20:23)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Why rushed/urgent hiring leads to misfits: (02:13–03:20)
• The Collab Team’s approach to defining roles: (03:28–04:35)
• Refining job posts & candidate feedback loop: (05:36–07:36)
• The “friend/family/gut feeling” hiring trap: (08:47–09:14)
• Screening & filtering applicants efficiently: (09:52–11:37)
• The truth about interview show rates & candidate readiness: (12:00–12:32)
• Tech stack expectations: (14:09–15:43)
• Researching and setting pay ranges: (16:25–17:19)
• Culture, tone, and the importance of defined roles: (19:16–20:10)
• Churn and self-reflection for entrepreneurs: (20:10–20:23)

---

Actionable Takeaways

• Clarify outcomes before defining job titles.
• Centralize and standardize job postings to avoid confusion.
• Iterate on job descriptions using real applicant feedback.
• Screen for intentional, not just qualified, candidates.
• Don’t get hung up on specific software; look for adaptability.
• Stay current with compensation data for your industry and location.
• Prioritize culture and realistic role design to reduce churn.
• Reflect honestly if persistent turnover occurs—look at the role and culture, not just candidates.

---

Resources

• Free job posting and interview question templates:
  recruiting.opsexpertsacademy.com (announced at 18:10)

---

Next Episode:
Stay tuned for more operations wisdom and real-life ops stories from The Collab Team and special guests!

---

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Ops Experts Club. If you're at all interested in anything we talk about here in this episode, go ahead and check out the description down below and click any of the links there. Or if you just want to know more about us, click the links below. Now onto the episode Ops Experts Club. We are here. Taryn Turner. I just want everybody to know that's watching because, like, I think it's important Taylor and I said a conversation about it. You're going to meet Taylor here in a minute. Taran is freaking wacky. Taryn is crazy. Taryn does some crazy, crazy stuff. And I know listening to the show, you're probably, probably like, Taren seems like a pretty cool cat, pretty mellow character. No, wrong, wrong. That's not what Taran is. Taran is a wild animal. Taran, what did you just do this last weekend that you just blew my mind with?

[B]

Oh, it's our yearly 12k trail run.

[A]

Oh, just. No problem. I just do a 12k trail run once a year. No big deal. Taren, what did you just find out about last week that you just were awarded, that you were just brought into in your rural community?

[B]

Oh, joining a local volunteer firefighter crew.

[A]

Taran was accepted as a volunteer firefighter. So, like, what can't Taran do? Taran's, like, putting off fences for his farm. Taren's driving his tractor on the weekends. Taren's fighting fires. Taren's running 12Ks. No big deal. That's just Taryn Turner. No big deal.

[B]

Yeah, the tractor broke this weekend, so I had to order a part.

[A]

Dude, was it. Was it a heavy weekend then? Did we need to mourn a little bit for the tractor or is it coming back quick?

[B]

It'll come back quick. Just shipping. Shipping delays.

[A]

Taren's awesome. But you are who we're here to talk to today. Super excited Ops experts. We're going to talk today about a topic that I think that you all face. Anybody that has a business faces this. And it's not something a lot of people like to face. A lot of times it's a headache. But it's something we at the Collab team face all the time for our clients. Something that we take on. It's just part of what we do to make our. Our clients things a little bit easier on them. And that's recruiting. Usually people get excited when they think about, hey, we need to do some hiring. Well, it probably depends on who you are. The owner's like, really? We've got to spend more money and, like, Anybody that's doing the work's like, dear God, get me help. Right? Like, send help. You've seen those pictures. Just, like, send help. A lot of people feel that way in their operations. And so they're like, let's just hire some people. We just need some bodies in here. And sometimes the danger can be we just rush out and hire any old Tom, Dick or Sally Taren, like, Tom, Dick or Sally, like that. That happens sometimes, and there can be some real danger in it. So I thought we could bring on Taylor. Taylor's on our recruiting team here at the CO lab team. We have. Recruiting is happening all the time for our clients here at the CO lab team. Four or five projects that are always going on here. So I thought, why not bring in an expert to talk about something that everybody feels the pain of around recruiting. So, Taylor, thanks so much for joining us today.

[C]

Yeah. So excited to be here.

[A]

So excited. So, Taren, something that we'll usually start with. Usually it starts with you or one of the primaries of the CO lab team with a visionary that says, hey, we need to do some hiring. Can you help us out? So, Taren, usually it's your job to figure out, okay, what does that mean, though? Like, what are we talking about? And, Taryn, you do a great job at this. Not resistance, but, like, maybe just filtering a little bit, you know, like, what are we talking about? Okay, what does that do to these rules? And, okay, it sounds like there's some overlap and some complications or maybe you're in the middle of. And you're like, no, dear God, send. You're the guy with the send help. No, we gotta. We got to hire for this. We're. We're burning down the house, how many hours we're using. So usually you're the one that kicks off with the recruiters and you're like, hey, Taylor, we've got a recruiting project. I know. We just kicked off a recruiting project for Michael Jr. Here recently. We've got. Michael Jr. Wants to do some recruiting. Here are the roles, and then you hand that off to Taylor. So there's probably some clarity that needs to come out of what exactly we're hiring. Do you want to talk about that just a little bit at the beginning? Taren, how you get to the point of handing off to a recruiter?

[B]

Yeah, for sure. I think like you said, it starts with the visionary or whoever we're working with. And sometimes they think they need to hire a specific role, like they have the role title. But I don't like to Start with a role title because that might mean different things to different people. Instead, let's talk about what kind of things you want them to do and then we can actually craft a role title from that too. Because also depending on the role title, that's going to be a big difference in pay expectations too. Are we calling them a director, a manager, or something else? Or are we leaving those titles out because they're not going to manage anybody. And so that's pretty important part of it. So just start with what do you expect them to do? We'll build a job description from there and then from that, create what we think is an applicable role title. And sometimes I'll create the job description if it's more unique and I know specifically what we're looking for. If it's not unique and it's more of a standard, then yeah, I'll just say, you know, pull up one of our templates in a starting spot and I'll look through it and see if we need to make any tweaks from there.

[A]

Sharon, I'm so glad you talked about templates. So today, if you're listening and you're near feeling the pain of recruiting, we're going to offer you something towards the end of the show on just some of the assets that we have that we've built over the last 12 years of being in business with recruiting. So stay tuned for that. Taylor. So Taren comes to you and he's got this thing you want to start recruiting for. You build the post, right? Usually it's like LinkedIn or indeed those are the two that we go to most frequently. But typically some sort of post that we share those places and then we ask typically the visionary to go and share that on their socials, like point all traffic, the same lead source. That's really important because I think what, what happens a lot of times is people can be like, I need to go higher. I'm going to start telling all my friends about it. And then you start, it's just like monkeys coming at you from everywhere. You're like, I don't even know how to stay organized on all the different noise. It's like, no, no, create a central focal point. We're going to drive all volume to this place. And indeed, here's the link. Give that back to visionary. Give that back to their team to post on socials and it drives all traffic to you. So, Taylor, that's where you pick up in the process. So tell me a little bit about. We've learned the hard way about wording. Right. And word choices and how we make posts. And don't you worry about kids in the background? Because I love kids in the background. So don't you worry about it.

[C]

Yeah. So when we post, obviously Taryn does a great job of knowing what wording that we're going to need. So when that job post comes over, we do give it a look over to see, hey, this is kind of what we've seen in the industry, especially if it's a industry specific job. And we'll try to change the wording. So that way we're getting almost more niched applicants. So we still want to keep it general, but we really want to niche down on certain things. Especially a visionary is going to know, like this is really where we're hurting and this is really where I really want to recruit for and that's going to bring in more of those applicants. However, sometimes we don't hit the mark the first, first time or second time. And so we'll go back and reword based off of what we're seeing coming in and the interviews that we're doing.

[A]

I've noticed too, Taylor, that because I've watched you work your magic, guys, we're going to get a lot of good magic today from Taylor. She's like a wizard. So Deline ink she has some good stuff. I've watched you. Usually what'll happen is you, you know, like for us, standard recruiting project, we put out a post, it knocks down 100, 150 applicants. You're weaving through those, bringing out the best eight or 10, doing the first eight or 10 interviews, bringing back to the client the best two or three, we call them a candidates for the client to choose from that they want to elevate up and do a second interview with. What I've noticed a lot of times is when the client starts telling us, no, that one's not right. No, that one's not right. No, I don't like the energy of that one. These eight candidates that you're bringing back, usually that's like tip of the nose of you saying, I think maybe we need to repost this. Like, tell me what you didn't like about them. And I love that about you. You're like, what didn't you like about these candidates? Because I felt like they were a perfect fit based on what Taryn told me you needed. Tell me what you didn't like. And then you'll go actually back in and readjust the post, right? You'll go back in and readjust what we're going out as the lead magnet for definitely.

[C]

A lot of times visionaries have an idea, but when they start seeing their applicants come through, they're like, that's. That's not it. And they don't always know why, but your biggest thing, they'll just be like, that's just not the right person. You're like, okay, but we need specifics. Even if it's the littlest thing, it helps us redefine what that role is going to look like. Because they'll say that they care about somebody using their CRM. But then once we get through the interview, they're like. I'm like, this person's an expert in your CRM and they could do the job. And they're like, but that's not the person for me. So you're really just having to pull out of them. Like, what are you really looking for?

[A]

Yeah, um, Taren back over to you a little bit. Sometimes that can be hard for you as the primary. Right. Because you're using hours on your clients retainer with us for Taylor to keep going dog and stuff down. So do you feel like sometimes you need to lean in and get a little bit better clarity with the primaries from your end too, where you're like, I know there have been. I've watched you pull recruiting projects off the table where you're like, hey, this isn't. This doesn't feel right. Let us try. Let's try and fix. What's the pain point that you're feeling the most? Cause we've just wasted a bunch of hours like dicking around trying to find somebody that we're wasting time right now. So what's the biggest pain point? Can we solve for that internally for in the buy time and then we can out there once we really identify what the pain is?

[B]

Yeah, I think there's been two clear cases of who I work with, people who have got more employees and they're a little bit bigger. Companies they've recruited before. That's going to be a lot simpler to follow. They've been through all the reps, they know what to look for. It's very clear to them. They even have a budget, you know, that's a lot more cut and dry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're working for a smaller team, somebody who hasn't done a lot of recruiting specifically and maybe has just hired in the past on gut feelings, friends and family, then yeah, there's going to be some reps involved. There's going to be a lot more back and forth and there's going to be more of. Well, feels like wasted time, but really it's. It's just practice for them. And hopefully if we've got another one down the road, we're more narrowed down on who we actually do want to find.

[A]

If we could make T shirts based on some of the things we do, that one is one of them right there. Would you say gut reaction, friends and family. Gut reaction. Like, honestly, that's the way a lot of visionaries hire, you know, is what does my gut tell me? Are they a friend, Are they a family? Which I totally understand. Right. You want somebody, you know love and trust. Like, you're always gonna go for them first. Sometimes the danger of that can be though, is, yeah, but are they good at this? They're a good person. You love them, you trust them, but are they going to be good at this? And let's really look at that honestly. So I think that's great. Taryn, you hit on something else there and I'm going to come back to it. Taylor. But that's budget. I'm going to talk about that in just a minute, but let's talk through first. So Taryn's refined it down with you. You've got this new post, you put it back up, it knocks out a whole new slew of applicants, another 150 applicants. This last one you just put out recently was like 400 applicants. Like, what's the secret to your source of how do you go through that many candidates? Like, how do you determine which of these are the best to do eight or 10 interviews with?

[C]

Yeah. So LinkedIn has gotten really impressive with their AI use. I don't trust it fully, but we do set requirements, right. Like I'm asking certain questions pre me even going through their resume. So that way they're kind of weeding themselves out. So that does help a lot. Right. So these people have three out of three of my preferred things that I want to see in this application. So that's going to help me really easy to identify. Like, these are good candidates, right. And then I'm going to look through their resume and there are people that just throw a resume together, right. They've been using it for 15 years. They think it's still great. Not great. Please redo your resumes. Um, but there are. Are they paying attention to the words that I'm using? Because their resume really is. You're trying to sell me to hire you, and that's a big deal. I think a lot of. Even as applicants, people don't Realize that I'm really looking for somebody who's being intentional. Especially there are. Some clients don't care, right? They're like, we just want a warm body in the seat. Other ones are looking for very specific people. And so I need to look for those intentional people, right. Because those are going to be the good fit. It does take a while, right. I have to go through every application, but I'm just trying to look. Okay, do they have experience in this industry? Are they using words? Even if they were in a different industry, that they understand the systems and processes that would be in place for this one. So weeding through that, it takes time. It. It is not easy. And I think that's where people get the biggest hesitation with recruiting. Right. If you open a project under a week, you have 400 applications. How am I going to get through all of this? Well, you're going to sit and you're going to say, these are the most important things to me. I'm going to check them off as

[A]

I go through, you know, because a lot of times, Taylor, you're under pressure, right? We. We tell people, hey, recruiting project, door to door, using the. Takes us typically two to three weeks, right? So that if you got 400 applicants, that's a lot to get through. And then, Taylor, a lot of times what you've found is applicants can be a little flaky, right? Sometimes that's the heartbreak of the whole thing. All that lift and then you start reaching out to book a call with them and then they book it with you and then no show.

[C]

Yeah, I think even, David, our ratio is like a 40% show rate. So it's not like it's. That's a great show rate. So that tends to be disappointing too. And that's back to that. Intentional, right? Are they being intentional when they're submitting their applications? Because if not, that can be a clear indication that they're not going to be a fit. And that's even once we get to the interview, there are times people are having tech issues, which we can be, you know, forgiving for. But also, if you can't find a link in a calendar invite that was sent to you, you're probably not going to be a great fit for this online program that we're running.

[A]

Majority of stuff we're doing is online, right? So, like, if. If you're having a hard time and, and man, let me tell you what the excuses we hear come back are some just comical. Some of the stuff is just comical. It's like, clearly you're just not that interested in this job, right? Because what you just told me is just. It's ridiculous. It sounds ridiculous. Ask yourself, you know, like, all right, before you push send, do I want to say this to somebody? Because I could. Anyway, so. So we've talked about posts, refining posts. We've talked about how we, you know, peel through 400 applicants, right? But once you, once you've got them pinned down and you're having the conversation, you've got a set of questions you go through. Usually wrap it specific to the role, right? You come up with a set of questions. Do you run those by Taren? Is that just historically what you've seen? How do you come up with the questions you're asking for interview?

[C]

A lot of it has to do with the job post. And then Taryn usually has some outside of the box of like besides a job description, like, hey, this is really what they're looking for. So he does help define that. And that can help me define the types of questions I'm going to be asking. There are always sets of questions, so I really like to know about the person. So starting off an interview that is personalized, which is something we do in collab anyways, right? Like, hey, what are you looking forward to this weekend? That drops the guard and you're going to get a lot softer of a person, right? Somebody who's not as nervous. And then as we kind of move through, I like to listen to what they're saying to incorporate my question. But there's usually a defined question that I'm trying to get to, like, do they know the system and process of this? If I. I lean in a little bit here, can they tell me what their process actually was or is it just this blanket statement? Because you'll find that a lot people, especially when they're nervous, they just talk high level rather than getting in the details. And a lot of times we're looking to pull some of those details out of them.

[A]

Scripted, right? Like scripted. What I've noticed is when people get nervous, they go back to their script and then it's like you're not even answering questions that I'm asking anymore. You know, so like having specific questions that are maybe outside of the box a little bit, like not just canned questions, but like specific to this role. Taren, how big of a deal do you feel like Tech Stack is? You know, we do a lot of online, a lot of online marketers, online job opportunities. Tech Stack seems to be something that we come back to time and time again. Whether it's customer service tech stack, whether it's CRM tech stack, you know, and automations, whether it's accounting tech stack. It feels like we do a lot of tech stack, right. And given the recruiter, that kind of parameter kind of helps at the beginning.

[B]

Yeah. And I've been inside more tech apps than anybody I know and I can tell you that you don't really necessarily need a specific experience. Like if we're using one CRM, they've got experience in this other high CRM that they've been using for five years. That's like, okay, that's a no brainer. They could easily master this one right here. It's like it's the same thing with buttons in different places. That's what I always tell people. Just like, you just gotta find the buttons.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So yeah, we do look for tech stack and then just any tech stack experience. I mean like you said, if we're hiring for all these online companies, they have to have some sort of computer app experience outside of living in a in person Microsoft Outlook SharePoint account.

[C]

I also think visionaries kind of get hung up on this tech stack. Sometimes they'll be like, but they don't have this specific experience. And I'm like, it's okay, like they have enough experience that they can, can do the job.

[A]

Taylor I think probably one of the biggest heartburns for a visionary is the thought of spending more money. You know, like they're like, but can't we do more with less? Right. That's going to leave more cheddar on the table. Right. That's more profit for it to go around. And so they'll stretch their people as far as they can possibly stretch people until they're kind of at critical mass. Right. So when it comes to hiring, they're going to want to make sure they're getting the best bang for the buck. Something we do with the collab team is we really come alongside of people and help them determin. Hey, what is a going rate for this position? Because a lot of times how is the visionary supposed to know? And if they're not careful, they can revert back to what they hired for last at this position that could be 4 or 5 or 10 years old and it's like, well that's, that's not current industry standards. So do you do some research around industry standard, maybe give some tricks and tips on that?

[C]

Yeah. So industry industry standard, we're looking across, I think we have five different platforms. So between LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor, ZipRecruiter, there's another one too. So we're looking at those looking at the median. So we'll have a, you know, someone early in their career, someone late in the career, someone right in the middle. And then I also tend to look at, they will give me a similar type of job. Right. Well, I'll look at those two to see do we fit maybe better in a lower range or does this really fall into a higher range. And then when I am on an interview, I do ask, hey, what would your pay expectation be? Because just because we're finding that doesn't mean that's actually realistic in the industries I'm asking and prompting them to offer me like, hey, this is what I'm looking at. Because a lot of times people will say what they're sitting at currently and that really gives a clear indication of like, okay, across the board, the industry is this amount.

[A]

I know the other day when you were doing a recruiting project and you push out. I love every, every week the recruiters will send over an update right to the client. Hey, this is where we're at in the project. We've created this amazing dashboard, I feel like at the collab team where it tells them, hey, this is how many people have applied this, how many are good fit. Here's the assets right here. If you want to thumb through them and just tell us if you want to look at them. They also give an update on an email that can just be read and then you can click into it if you want for some of the different assets. One of the ones that came back on your update this last week, I was like, holy, what did you just say the price point is? Does she know that's what does the client know that's what the price point is? And you're like, yeah, I know we've had conversations about this. This is going great right now for this particular position. I know she's really bent on it being somebody local or somebody that's in her hemisphere at least so that they can have some in, in meeting things. But I think it's really important to stay relevant on like price and, and make sure you're competitive and ask yourself when you're creating a post. And so let me just say that if you're wanting to post, we're going to give you, if you go to recruiting.opsexpertsacademy.com we're going to give you our post template. What we use to post every week when we're posting up job app hints to try and Knock down good leads and candidates. So we'll give you our posting template and we'll give you our interview questions. So the interview questions that partner with. And we'll give you an example of both. Hey, here's the post. Here are the interview questions that pair with this. So if you're just looking for something good that you could copy, paste, slap up and go to town with, like, we'd love to give that to you. Recruiting.opsexperticsacademy.com you can grab that easy free. Something simple. Taylor, what would you say final thoughts are on people when it comes to recruiting? I was going to say before we wrapped up, as you read a post, ask yourself, would I want to want to work there? I saw, I was in a mastermind group the other day where somebody's like, hey, I'll pay $2,000 for a frill bonus if we hire who you recommend. And he posted, put up the post. And I'm like, I would never in a million years refer somebody to that. Because right there, big and bold. It's like, if work life balance is big for you, this is not the place for you. If we're like, just like some things that I'm. Why don't you just start kicking

[C]

like,

[A]

you sound like a jerk. I wouldn't want to work with you. I definitely am not going to refer people. I don't care if you pay me two grand or not. You know, maybe just talk about that a little bit. How, how important culture is and how important energy is when you're looking for an applicant.

[C]

Yeah. I would say that's probably your most important thing. Right. So even us going through an interview, that's their first experience with your brand. So yeah. Job the way that you're wording things, please do not tell people that you want them to work all the time. You're not going to get good applicants. Nobody wants to do that. Yeah, that I think that's a really big tip is understanding the scope of your role too and not expanding it. A lot of people will be like, I want them to do everything. And that's just not realistic for anybody. You're going to have a turnover very high. You're going to have burned out people. It's. You really want to, you might have to split the role.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Like so you really want to make sure this is a defined role and we know what the outcomes that we, that we're looking for.

[A]

Churn isn't happy, man. It's not anything anybody wants to do. And I think a lot of visionaries are like, good, they weren't right. Culture fit good. Get rid of them. Let's find somebody's a good culture fit. But I think, like, be honest with yourself. Look at yourself honestly in the mirror. And if you burned through four or five people in this role, it's probably got something to do with the role, not the people not being a good culture fit. So really ask yourself, is the culture good here? Is this someplace people want to work or are people just going to move on? Because I think there are a lot of online jobs that are out there that you will. If somebody's good at their job, they know what they're worth and they stick around places that feel good to them. They want to be part of team. They don't want to be out there surfing it alone anyway. Taylor I love it. Stay at home. Mama Ann does a bunch of work for the co op team. Ann is a queen. Just did everything she does. Thank you for coming in and talking to us about recruiting. Karen Turner, you're a legend in your own time and I appreciate you Ops Experts. Thanks for joining us today for Ops Experts Club. We'll see you here next week.

[B]

Peace.