← The Ops Experts Club Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Hey experts listeners, I want to key you into something that we do very special here at OPS Experts Club and that's a masterclass. We have a free masterclass called Foundations that Scale. And the great thing about this masterclass is it's for operation professionals who are growing businesses. One of the most dangerous things you can do as an operator is grow businesses on a foundations that's not stable. So in this particular masterclass, we take apart all of the inside pieces of your team, your tech and how they're using time and, and we make sure that you're building on a foundation that's stable. So if you want to check out a great masterclass completely for free, go to foundationsthatscale.com we'll see you there.
- [00:37]
B
Welcome to the Ops Experts Club with Aaron Taran and Savannah. This podcast will take you behind the scenes of some of the finer details of multimillion dollar companies. These ops experts have dealt with operations for scaling companies and well established businesses with anywhere from small to large teams. If you've ever been deep into the details of a major company, then you know how much it takes and these conversations are just for you. Welcome to the Ops Experts Club podcast.
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A
OPS Experts Club. Taryn Turner, Excellent to see you.
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C
You too, Aaron. You too. It's a nice Monday holiday.
- [01:17]
A
Yeah, I was going to say they always tell you don't make these things like time sensitive but Memorial Day, bro. Like there aren't many of us that are working on Memorial Day, but it's nice to see you on Memorial Day.
- [01:25]
C
Thank you, Aaron. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't let the government tell me when to take a day off. I take a day off when I want to.
- [01:32]
A
That's right. And I'll remember our soldiers every fricking day that I get to enjoy my liberty. So a big gratitude for those of you out there that have served and have given us that liberty. It's an amazing thing.
- [01:42]
C
Yes, sir.
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A
Terence Turner. I thought today it would be awesome to talk about the need for speed and specifically around what's realistic, like what's real and what's not, you know, I mean, cause I think that you and I being under the hood of so many different visionaries, talking to so many high level players, you know, who are out there, have created an amazing brand like are continuing to push the envelope. This is one of the main things I feel like we have to consistently work with them on is I know you have a severe drive for speed and you want to Go fast. And you want to get your ideas out there quick. But there's probably a realistic expectation on how fast you can expect things to turn, and especially when you're growing a team. You know, a lot of entrepreneurs are burning through teams, right, because they expect a pretty high level of performance and they, quite frankly, burn a lot of people out. Right. So there's a lot of churn, a lot of turnover when it comes to employees. And when you're bringing people on, how fast can you expect them to be ready to go? And so I thought that would be just a good conversation topic today. The need for speed. What's real? And how do you determine, does my team suck? Does or do they just need a little bit more time? So sound good to you?
- [02:47]
C
Yes, sir. And I think maybe we should just clarify when we're discussing speed, you know, we're talking about the timely constraints of speed, not necessarily the movie starring Keanu Reeves or the illicit drug that as soon as you take it, you start running around wanting to shout boom shakalaka. Everywhere you go.
- [03:07]
A
Boom shakalaka is right, Sharon. That was. That was a good talking. That was good talking. And I will say thank you for the clarity. Keanu. Man, mad respect. John Wick was a better series than Speed. But we appreciate you and we definitely are not talking about narcotics on this show, so. Exactly. Time from origin to finalization. The need for speed. Thank you. Tarantrainer.
- [03:28]
C
Yes, sir. Yeah, I mean, you know, online entrepreneurs like we work with, they are running fast, you know, and their need for speed is high, especially when it comes to new items and new people. That's where we see it a lot. Is that need for speed trying to be expressed to new people. But new people, I mean, they can take time. It's just part of it.
- [03:50]
A
And I think, too, asking yourself, so this is the evil twin to speed, right? Is if you don't have good systems in place, you're going to come up against a crash, right? Because, like, haste also makes waste, right? So we need to be really careful about, like, hustling something in and realizing, oh, well, just because I hired this person and their skillset matches up to what I perceive the need is if they don't have a good track to follow, like, we're blazing through the underbelly of the tropical jungles of the Amazon, you know what I'm saying? It's like, how fast do you expect that to go? There was no track to put them on, even if they're the most skilled machete or it's going to take them some time to cut through that fallen forest because they're blazing a new trail. And I think sometimes entrepreneurs, because they were solopreneurs first, probably a lot of these guys came up out of the trenches themselves. A lot of self made men, self made women, which is definitely respectable, love that. But they probably weren't the most organized. It was probably kind of whatever it takes wit to get them to where they're at now. That's not the easiest thing to replicate. Right. Because you're not going to be able to find somebody probably just like you. Otherwise there'd be a bunch of people doing what you're doing. You probably have made a niche in the space because of your brilliance, because of your unique skillset. But you can't just expect people to follow a blind trail. Right. So once you've created it, you probably need to create a repeatable, like repeatable process so that we can like churn our own butter. Right. We want to make sure that this process is repeatable, repeatable, repeatable. To do that, you need to set up good systems. But a lot of times when entrepreneurs are beginning to hire, they're not thinking through is there a repeatable process here yet? Or whoever am I bringing in, they're going to have to pilot that. And if they're going to have to pilot that, that's going to take a little bit of time. Even if I've piloted it the first time for myself, if I haven't made it repeatable, they've got to consume it, they've got to understand me, they've got to understand how I work and then from there make a repeatable process. That's probably going to take some time. So I think probably asking yourself at what point of the growth journey you are in your business, because that's going to dictate some speed.
- [05:45]
C
Yeah, yeah. And I think you'll see it everywhere. No matter who you hire, it's not necessarily a skills problem. You know, if you hire a copywriter, they're going to be great at copy, but they're still going to take time to get your voice, learn your products, learn your company, learn your audience. All these things that make them better at their job is going to take time, but that doesn't make them a bad copywriter. That makes them a new person on your team. That's learning your way, your culture, your company so that they can be the best employee or person working with you. And no matter what position they are.
- [06:19]
A
You know, that's so true. Such a good Point. I think, too, we talk a lot about culture. Like, what's the culture of this business? You know, And I think sometimes visionaries can undervalue that. Or when they talk about culture, it's almost like they speak to it. Like, almost like they're placating, you know? Yeah, yeah, I get. I get it. No, no, we have to have good culture. Yeah. I want people to work here, you know, or something along those lines without realizing. No, no. If you don't set the right tone, then you're not gonna be able to retain talent for long. Or if you do retain talent for long, it's gonna be an unhealthy machine inside of your business. Meaning you're gonna have people that are consistently insecure, like, unsure about what you think of them. You're gonna have people that are consistently frustrated because they don't know what winning looks like. Because typically, there's a lot of critiquing that can happen. It's very few visionaries that I find that are good at affirming. Right. So you're gonna have insecure people, or you're gonna have people that aren't sure what winning looks like. And so there's frustration. So then that's gonna create a really negative undertow in your culture. You know, I think about, you know, I grew up in Southern California, going to the beach a lot, and, you know, you. You always had to be careful of the. The riptide, you know, not something you can see on the surface. But, man, if you get into the water too deep, you're gonna start feeling it, and it's the undertow underneath the water, you know, and it can. A lot of times, you can see undertow out a little bit further out on the surf, if you know what you're looking for, because it creates chop. And I think there are. Sometimes when you and I come into businesses, then we're like, there feels like all the right pieces here. There's something that's unnamed in the water, and I really feel like that's what it is. It's that undercurrent of a negative culture that's creating unnecessary chop in the water downstream. And you'll see it. Like, there's just. Why are things not happening? Well, here there have been clients that we've been tucked into for 6, 8, 10, 12 months. And we're like, why have we not been able to move the ball any further than when we started? We know what our turn rate is like.
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C
We.
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A
We've grown some amazingly powerful brands out there. So why Applying the same principles, are we not seeing the same results? And I think a lot of it comes down to this. Of what kind of culture are you creating? How much appreciation are you showing people? Or are you always only critiquing them? And have you given them a good path to follow? And visionaries, a lot of times when you talk like that, they get frustrated because that's not their skill set. And so I would say, well, that's the first person you need to hire. Then hire somebody that can compliment you from an operations perspective, that can help set the tone, hold people accountable, but create the right culture.
- [08:39]
C
Yep. And on top of that, you know, giving people a good onboarding plan, a good Runway, a good trajectory of growth, even good job descriptions, all these things are tools that's going to help them do their job better and, you know, get to that need for speed quicker if you give them the right stuff at the beginning.
- [09:00]
A
That's a really good point, Taran. Onboarding is so key, guys. If you don't have a good onboarding process, your new people are going to wander. And whether they say it or not, they're thinking to themselves, do I really want to work here? This feels a little scrambling, you know what I'm saying? Like, and some people may be able to operate in that environment, and some people may just push, eject and get out and get into a different job because they want to feel secure. Your people have chosen to be an employee because they want the security that comes with employment. But if you, as a business owner, have created a business that always feels like, choppy and uncertain, it's not a healthy environment. And you'll get people that are going to churn fast. They're going to leave because they're not going to want to survive there. So I would say what you're saying with onboarding is so key. We were on an L10 just this morning where somebody said something really brilliant. It was the operator on the field said to the visionary, hey, this is a spot where I think we can really use your brilliance. Maybe you should create some internal trainings on how you want people to do certain things, because that's how we're going to be able to replicate you. And I do think if you, you know, visionaries a lot of times don't want to put in the time necessarily for internal infrastructure because they. They don't see it as a way of making them money. But if you could translate that into. No, no, actually, this is what's going to tell us if they're the Right. Seat on the bus. And EOS also has a system to determine this. Right. Taryn, you and I were talking about it before the show.
- [10:14]
C
Yeah, I mean, right, right. Person. You know, that's the first criteria. But the second one is get it, want it. Capacity to do it.
- [10:22]
A
Yeah.
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C
You know, do they get it? As in, do they understand the role? And the get it, want it capacity usually is more of like an internal move or transfer or adding to people's roles. So do they get it? Do they understand? Do they want it? Do they even want this new responsibility? Do they want this new other job they're taking on? And then do they have the capacity? Do they have the time? Do they have the understanding to do it?
- [10:47]
A
Yeah, no, I mean, that. That to me is what hits it on the nose, like for me personally. So, you know, when a visionary begins to complain about somebody on their team, my question always is, okay, so did they have the right kind of training? We talked about that. Maybe some internal things that you could put into place that would explain to them what you think of timelines, how you want things done, when you think timeliness, what that looks like. It's. First, give them some training, help them to understand and then give them some time. If they are. If you are an online entrepreneur and you are selling a product, give them some time inside of your product. Right. Help them understand your product suite. Help them to understand the ascension path, help them to understand the customer journey so they know how to bring people through that journey according to what your vision is. But I would say what's more important to me than speed is does this person have the raw talent, does this person have the raw materials to be good at what you want them to do? Because I think if they have the raw materials with the right mentoring and the right coaching and the right management, I feel like you're going to be able to get them exactly to where you want them to be. Now, that may take a little while and need to give some time for training and building and critiquing and letting them fail and then teaching them how to succeed. But the question then comes to me, what you just talked about there, like the get it, want it, what does it turn? Get it, want it. Ability to do it.
- [11:59]
C
Capacity.
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A
Capacity. Right. Capacity to do it is if you put them through the rungs, you know what I mean? You have them get the right training and you've explained to them the right process and all those different things. If they start failing after that particular point in time, then I think that you need to ask yourself, is this the right person? And first, start with right seat on the bus. Do they understand my culture? Do I like them as a person? Do I feel like they. They have what it takes? Maybe this just isn't the right seat on the bus or flip it around and say like. Or are they just a wrong fit? Like, they just don't fit. But I do feel like if you've determined that they have the right raw materials and you've coached them and managed them and trained them, that's when you can be. Can begin to decide, like, is the need for speed real or not? But I think early on, poor training, just hiring talent, expecting them to come on the field and just get it quickly and start moving the ball. I. I don't think that's real. I have not seen that work very well.
- [12:52]
C
Yeah, it does not work very well. I mean, you can probably hire, you know, an agency and maybe get a result like that, but then you're paying a lot more. And that's not necessarily what we're talking about. So I don't want people to just say, oh, it's possible. I've done it. But, you know, we're more talking about the people you bring onto your team that you expect to grow with you. You know, there is going to be that time it takes to get there.
- [13:14]
A
And I would say, too, probably be honest with the caliber of role that we're talking about when you start looking to hire somebody, right? Like, if it's a leadership position that's not. We've talked about this before on other shows. That's probably not a VA from a country that is. Is not speaking your language as their, like, primary language, right? Like that leadership is really tough to nail if they don't understand your culture, if they don't understand your expectations. I think that overseas hires are great if they have a very specific kind of job they're doing. But to think that you can elevate, like, for a lot of people, I think they want this super high bar job and they want to pay a super low bar price. And then they're frustrated when they get somebody in the seat that's not working the right way. And I always feel like, man, see, you got to make a decision. Either you want it done well or you want it done cheap. But it's really hard to do cheap well, you know, so I think be really careful of what you're setting people up for if you want something done quickly. I think there are plenty of people who are VAs in the Philippines or VAs coming out of South America or vas from India that do excellent, excellent work. You just better have a very, very clear path that you want them to succeed on and not just leave them to wander the prairie and then hope that they're going to be able to get you to Mecca. Like, that's not. That's not going to be how it works. Like, if you want them to get to the goal quickly, have a quick path for them. And I would say if it's a caliber person that you're thinking should be a leadership team position. You probably can't hire cheap for a leadership team. I just don't think that that's a good. You're not setting yourself up for success. Maybe you might find a diamond in the rough, maybe you might find a unicorn out there, but I definitely think you're much more likely to be disappointed than you're going to be excited about trying to go cheap. But good, because I think that if you want somebody in a seat that's going to really move the ball on your team, it's probably going to take some investment in the talent. Now, I'm also all for growing talent. Like hire them in at the lower bar of that role and then grow them within your team to the point where they are performing like a C level. Bring them in as a manager, let them work their way up to director. Let them work their way up to some sort of C level in your company. Give them incentive all along the way. But realize that's a growth trajectory. Nobody's going to be able to turn that on overnight. That's going to take some time to grow it. So if you don't want to spend a ton of money bringing talent on the field, I would say at least hire the right talent pool that can be elevated and grown into your brand. Otherwise, if you're going to hire for a lesser amount of money, I would say just be very, very clear on the kinds of things you're going to ask them for. Don't come in and expect them to create something because that's just not the price point you're paying.
- [15:39]
C
Yeah, for sure. And I. We've hired some VAs for people and they always need, you know, a little bit of management, which is fine. Mainly on the interpretation side, like getting a request from somebody else coming through to them. They might not necessarily understand it. Need someone in the middle who understands what, how they're working and what they're working with, who can take the request and interpret it and kind of oversee it and keep it moving there. But yeah, I mean, that's not a problem if you've got the right people there managing it as well.
- [16:11]
A
Yeah, I think management is key. And visibility.
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C
Right.
- [16:14]
A
I think anytime that you're hiring somebody overseas that has a lot of independence. Right. A lot of free roam, free space, I would just say be really, really clear on how you're documenting what they're using their time on. Like get a lot of clear visibility on. Hey, these are the steps of this process that are managed through ClickUp, that are managed through Asana, that are managed through Monday.com to see what they're doing to make sure that they're executing each part of it and pushing something out to you on the backside. That's exactly what you were looking for. Or, you know, invest in something like a time doctor that is a. A screen recorder of time that they're logging in, that they're calling it billable work just so you'll have a high level of accountability and efficiency on. Hey, I gave you this on Monday. I'd like this turned to me by Wednesday. Here are the steps in the process and then definition of done. DoD is X and it's due this date and. Cause I just think everybody operates better with clear parameters of understanding. And it really beats down that frustration undertow of just always being frustrated with your people. Nobody likes to live in that kind of environment. Nobody likes to feel good about that. There's a. There's a client of ours that through the years has. Has struggled at points where, like, they'll just jump on. And every weekly meeting they're chastising. Like every weekly meeting they jump on, they're frustrated. Every. Every weekly meeting they come on, they're preaching. And it's like we've watched their team just kill themselves, you know, trying to do a live event or trying to do some sort of event for them through a weekend work late nights, like worked up against unrealistic deadlines because things were asked to em last minute. And they get it across the finish line. It actually was pretty nominally successful. And then they show up at the Monday meeting only to be chastised for things not going the way that Visionary had wanted it to go. And it's not a good environment. Everybody just feels defeated. And it's because we weren't clear on the expectations going into it. Give people really clear expectations. Nobody wants to always feel like they're failing.
- [18:04]
C
Yeah. And especially if you're lobbing things out to a group like that, make sure we know where they're landing too. Yeah. Who's gonna own it?
- [18:13]
A
Yeah, who owns it? Like, very good point. I think you can't jump on a call and throw a bunch of deliverables out there without pinning somebody down on it. And then really honing in on a time. We've got a client, Brandon Elliott from Credit Counsel Elite. Really good dude. He and his wife, young entrepreneurs, but really, really smart people. Good hearted people. I love it. Cause every time something comes up like that on a call where somebody says, okay, well let's make sure we talk about that later. Let's, let's get, let's book a time on the books just to talk about that. Another meeting I've seen a lot of people pivot to. Okay, drop that on the, the L10 to DOS list. And then it's Taryn's job. Set up a time with Aaron to meet downstream. Brandon does a great job at like cutting straight to it on the meeting and being like, okay, hold on a second, let's stop. Taryn, you and Aaron work out of time real quick. We're going to do that. Put that down. Awesome. We, we're not getting off this call until that was at least scheduled. So we know that's going to happen. Because I don't want to show up again here next week and be like, oh, yeah, we had a hard time aligning schedules and we didn't get that outside meeting to happen. Like just, no, no, put it on the books. Make that happen. Keep it moving. So I think making people commit to a person who's going to own it and then a timeline, it's going to be due that way. It doesn't just linger out there forever.
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C
Yep, yep. Great, great suggestions. I like that for the scheduling a call directly there in a meeting because sometimes you do wait until the day before the next L10 meeting to get all your to dos done.
- [19:31]
A
We had that conversation this morning, didn't we, where it was like a lot of L10s. We come on. I think that people will roll up onto the L10 sheet and just try and hustle their to dos to done so they can mark done and not, you know, not done. Nobody wants to show up with red on the screen of not done. If they're like, oh no, no, that's done. But it was like they did like minimum viable. They like lobbed it across the court just to make sure that they could come in and mark done. So I do like, like how can we make sure that we're focusing good results, you know, and at the same time. What I really love about EOS all the way through is there's some room for grace, right? It's like, hey, we're are what we're expecting is at least 80, 80% to done. You know what I mean? So if there are 10 deliverables due and you didn't get two of them done, we're still winning. Because I think to try and think you're going to get a hundred percent every single time. That's just not always real. They could, there could be constraints that just worked up against us so realizing, hey, we have a high expectation of completion here. But I love how EOS allows for. No, no, it's okay to be, it's okay to come up against 20% that didn't get completed. Push that on into next week. We'll give them another week and then if it doesn't happen next week, then we're having a conversation where we bump it back over to you have a conversation of why didn't it get done.
- [20:41]
C
Yes, sir. Love that conversation.
- [20:44]
A
It's a great conversation. Turner, you're a great conversation. Boom shakalaka. I appreciate you joining us for Ops Experts today. Ops Experts, thanks for tuning in today. The need for speed was an excellent, excellent move by Keanu, but even better when your business runs at a right expectation, the right amount of speed for the sake of success. So see you next week here on OPS Experts.
- [21:08]
B
Thank you for tuning in to the Ops Experts Club podcast. New episodes available every week on Spotify, itunes and everywhere you listen to podcasts. If you're curious about how some of the biggest names in the in entrepreneurship have scaled their businesses to the next level, check out some of our best content on this topic by going to foundationscale.com you can find the link in our bio and do your part to improve as an OPS Expert.