72. SOPs, KPIs, and People Power: Insights from Delta Oil and Gas with Greg Thomas

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ops Experts Club Podcast

Episode 72: SOPs, KPIs, and People Power — Insights from Delta Oil and Gas with Greg Thomas

Date: July 3, 2025
Guests:

• Host: Aaron (A)
• Co-host: Taran (C)
• Guest: Greg Thomas (D, President, Delta Oil and Gas)

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Overview

This episode dives into operational excellence in the oil and gas sector—with Delta Oil and Gas President Greg Thomas—as the team explores how standardized processes (SOPs), key performance indicators (KPIs), and a focus on people produce lasting results, even in industries with volatile cycles. Greg shares his path from geology to oil exec, reveals behind-the-scenes stories of people development, and discusses how bringing big-industry practices to a mid-sized company transformed results.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Greg Thomas’s Background and Delta Oil and Gas

• Greg’s Journey:

  • Undergraduate in geology, then MBA in finance.
  • Entered oil and gas almost by accident, worked in natural gas trading before joining the family business (Delta) in 2002; became President in 2008.
  • [04:47] “Never thought I’d be doing this… but it’s worked out really well for me.” — Greg

• Company Structure & Locations:

  • Headquarters in Fort Worth, TX; field office in Breckenridge, TX; geologic office in Boulder, CO.
  • Multi-site structure leads to complex ops but provides flexibility and depth.

2. Operational Staffing and Stability Through Downturns

• Approach to Staff During Industry Fluctuations:

  • Delta Oil and Gas avoids layoffs, even during downturns like COVID.
  • Importance of retaining skilled field workers; focus on a cash cushion to ride out tough cycles.
  • [05:44] “If you let people go, you’re never going to find them again.” — Greg

• Types of Roles:

  • Strong technical and field focus: geologists (including Greg himself), petroleum engineers, skilled operations staff.
  • Field workers’ progression: “A job that doesn’t really require a college degree…but you can make six figures in almost immediately.” — Greg [07:59]

3. Universality of Operations + People Power

• Operations Is Operations:

  • Hosts test their theory that all operations, regardless of industry, have core universals: people, task management, and continuous refinement.
  • Greg confirms: “Yeah, I think it is true.” [07:01]

• Frontline Ops as the Backbone:

  • Most of the 45 employees are field ops.
  • “My field people are the backbone…and they are fantastic.” — Greg [07:59]

4. The Transformation: SOPs and KPIs Arrive

• Before and After:

  • Five years ago, Delta had no SOPs or KPIs.
  • Hiring a COO with big-company experience brought structure:
    • Systematic adoption of SOPs and KPIs led to an efficiency rate of 98%.
    • “Our efficiencies are up to 98% in the oil business—it’s ridiculous. We’re killing it as far as our efficiencies are going.” — Greg [09:14]
  • The COO essentially “worked himself out of a job” by building such a smooth-running system.

• Impact on the Team:

  • SOPs created confidence, clarity, and eliminated ambiguity:
    • “Training was like kind of a gray area…Now they know exactly what they’re supposed to be doing on a day to day basis.” — Greg [10:25]
    • “If it’s in your SOP, man, so we all know.” — Greg [10:57]

5. Role of Leadership: Visionary vs. Integrator

• Recognizing Skillsets:

  • Leaders (visionaries) often struggle when they micromanage or step into areas outside their expertise.
  • Greg and Aaron underscore the power of placing the right operator or integrator alongside a visionary—using EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) language.
    • “Just because you’re the leader…doesn’t mean all things should come back to you.” — Aaron [10:58]
    • “Let me come in and build [the infrastructure] out.” — Aaron, quoting the integrator role [10:58]

• Building KPIs that Matter:

  • Start with the metrics that CEOs/owners worry about most (“the big moving numbers”), then cascade down to refine further KPIs connected to SOPs.
  • “Let’s take those worries out of the room by giving somebody a metric they’re going to have to manage.” — Aaron [13:25]

6. Pay Structures: Bonuses, Ownership, and Retention

• Industry Standard Pay with Performance Bonuses:

  • Annual performance-review bonuses (typically 15%, can go higher for “rock stars,” rarely below 10%), in addition to base pay.
  • [14:52] “It’s hard to get away from that, trying to attract people… I don’t know if it would work so well in this industry.” — Greg, on KPI-based variable pay

• Unique Retention Tactic: Skin in the Game

  • Technical staff allowed to invest in projects they originate (up to 2.5%); team members on the project can invest up to 1%.
  • [17:04] “Your salary pays your bills, your working interest…is what’s going to make you rich.” — Greg
  • This aligns employee longevity with company success, creating big wins over long tenures.

• Retention in Action:

  • Many employees with Delta for 20–40 years; extremely low turnover.
  • “Institutional knowledge you just can’t build overnight.” — Greg [21:19]

7. The Value of Long-Term Employees and Institutional Knowledge

• Supporting Veteran Employees:

  • Accommodating roles for aging staff; offering consulting/part-time opportunities for retirees.
  • “Those guys are the ones who can really do…When you scratch your head and say, where is that? Oh, I’ve got a map in my head, let me show you.” — Greg [21:19]
  • “We will…change their job description and give them…something easier for the old guys to do.” — Greg [20:43]

• The Importance of Culture and Nurturing People:

  • Investing time to coach and develop people repays exponentially.
  • [22:58] “Don’t lose the ROI on your existing people by not spending the time you need to spend with them to culture them the right ways.” — Aaron

8. Memorable Moments and Quotes

• On efficiency:
  • [09:14] Greg: “Our efficiencies are up to 98% in the oil business—it’s ridiculous. We're killing it.”
• On loyalty:
  • [17:57] Greg: “It also retains them because they won't want to go anywhere else, because why would I leave when I'm killing it here?”
• On employee longevity:
  • [20:09] Greg: “I've got one 40 year employee...I've got a couple of 30 year, a lot of 20 years. I don't have much turnover.”
• On visionary missteps:
  • [10:58] Aaron: “They get out of the call and the team feels like, 'I am so confused on what I'm supposed to do with that.'”
• On the myth vs. reality of oil & gas TV:
  • [25:37] Greg: “[TV show] Land...just want to let you guys know, it's not real...just don’t believe it!”

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “If you let people go, you’re never going to find them again.”
  — Greg [05:44]

• “My field people are the backbone...that’s a job you can make six figures in almost immediately.”
  — Greg [07:59]

• “Our efficiencies are up to 98% in the oil business—it’s ridiculous. We’re killing it as far as our efficiencies are going.”
  — Greg [09:14]

• “Now they know exactly what they’re supposed to be doing on a day to day basis, on a month to month basis, on a year to year basis.”
  — Greg [10:25]

• “Just because you’re the leader of an organization doesn’t mean that all things should come back to you, or you should be the one making all decisions.”
  — Aaron [10:58]

• “Your salary is what pays your bills, your working interest…is what’s going to make you rich.”
  — Greg [17:04]

• “Don’t lose the ROI on your existing people by not spending the time you need…to culture them the right ways.”
  — Aaron [22:58]

• “Those guys are the ones that can really do...when you scratch your head and say, ‘Where is that?’, they've got a map in their head.”
  — Greg [21:19]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [04:47] — Greg’s entry into the industry
• [05:44] — Staffing stability during industry downturns
• [09:14] — Transformation with SOPs/KPIs, massive efficiency gains
• [10:25] — SOPs providing role clarity
• [13:25] — KPI best practices for visionaries
• [14:52] — Industry pay structures and thoughts on performance-based pay
• [17:04] — Employees as project investors, building loyalty
• [20:09] — Employee retention and long tenures
• [21:19] — Value and nurturing of institutional knowledge
• [25:37] — Reality vs. TV show myths about oil & gas

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in operations leadership as Greg Thomas reveals how bringing structure, metrics, and human focus have secured Delta Oil and Gas’s long-term stability and growth. The conversation underscores the universal importance of SOPs, the strategic use of KPIs, and—above all—the critical role of people, loyalty, and culture in sustainable business success. Whether you’re in oil & gas or any other industry, these insights are both practical and powerful.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey experts listeners. I want to key you into something that we do very special here at Ops Experts Club and that's a masterclass. We have a free masterclass called Foundations that Scale. And the great thing about this masterclass is it's for operation professionals who are growing businesses. One of the most dangerous things you can do as an operator is grow businesses on a foundation that's not stable. So in this particular masterclass, we take apart all of the inside pieces of your team, your tech and how they're using time and, and we make sure that you're building on a foundation that's stable. So if you want to check out a great masterclass completely for free, go to foundationsthatscale.com we'll see you there.

[B]

Welcome to the Ops Experts Club with Aaron Taran and Savannah. This podcast will take you behind the scenes of some of the finer details of multi million dollar companies. These ops experts have dealt with operations for scaling companies and well established businesses with anywhere from small to large teams. If you've ever been deep into the details of a major company, then you know how much it takes and these conversations are just for you. Welcome to the Ops Experts Club podcast.

[A]

Ops Experts Club. I'm talking about Terrence Turner. Great to see you today. How's the day?

[C]

You too, Aaron. It's going well. Weather is happening outside. I'm not going to say which direction it's leaning because these episodes are timeless. So we're just going to say there's weather outside.

[A]

I'm happy, I love it. I'm not going to tell people that we pre record these on Mondays either and that Mondays are the stressfulest day on the entire operational calendar. So I don't know how we landed on recording on these things on Mondays because any of you that are an operator out there know Mondays are awful. Visionaries come in on Mondays. They're like, I love Mondays. Mondays are the greatest. Aren't Mondays the best? And it's because they come like a fire hydrant and just dump all their crap on their operations based people. And all the operators are like dear God, not another Monday. So anyway, I think it's hilarious that we record on Monday. And Taryn, I'm not as non disclosing as you. It was, it's pretty warm down here. Let's give a little more weather like it pretty warm down here in southern Oregon especially because it's been pretty rainy up to this point.

[C]

So yeah, for sure. I don't know why we're doing this on a Monday. I Don't know who decided that, but it's my. It's favorite part of my Monday. So I'm glad I at least have a little upside to every Monday.

[A]

You just like hanging out with me? Is that what it is?

[D]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

What else are you gonna say? I love it. I love it. I just chewed up. Anyway, so we are gonna interview somebody that's awesome. Today. A good friend of mine. His name is Greg Thomas. He's from Delta Oil and Gas. We have never talked to somebody from the oil and gas side of the world. So this man, he's like the Wizard. He's like the wizard of Oz. He like pulling back the veil. This guy's gonna give us all kinds of insights, trade secrets. Just kidding. But this, I do have a lot of respect for this guy, a lot of love for this guy. He's gonna become a good friend over the past year or so. And so, with no further ado, Taran Turner, let's bring Greg Thomas to the stage. Greg, hello. Great to have you here.

[D]

Great to be here. See my friend Taran. Nice to meet you.

[C]

You too, Greg. I will interject here real quick and say, Aaron, I don't think we've ever interviewed somebody who wasn't awesome with that being clear because I don't want to a negative ricochet.

[A]

We don't have one. Being like, wow. I guess they really like Greg and all those other guys.

[C]

One of many awesomes.

[A]

Yes. So, Greg, Delta Oil and Gas located in Fort Worth. You're in Fort Worth, Texas. Is that where you're at?

[D]

Well, several places we're in Fort Worth is where the corporate office is. I've got a field office in Breckenridge, Texas, and then a geologic office in Boulder, Colorado. So we're kind of spread out.

[A]

Taren, look at all the. We could get so freaking nerdy right now on just the titles of those field locations. Like the field location Geological loc. Like that's. I mean, Taren. What you don't know about Taran, Greg, is that Taran has recently become old McTurner had a farm, basically has. Has recently come into farm life over the last year or so. And so every L10, every level 10 meeting we're on, we're like personal best, business best. Taren's Level 10 Personal Best this morning was that he put the horses on fresh pasture and it's tall grass and that they're really happy and that that's his personal personal best. So I think anytime you can get a little bit nerdier geographical Things or I guess the. I just, I'm saying that wrong. The geological, geological side of things. I think we get excited about it.

[C]

Yeah, for sure.

[D]

I get kind of nerdy with it too. So I'm, I'm a geologist by undergraduate training, so I'll go, go nerd out with you, man.

[A]

So listeners, it sounds like I'm going to be the guy that holds the line on getting too nerdy between Taryn and Greg right now, going down a rabbit hole of geological findings. So, Greg, how long you been doing this? Like, what got you into that side of the industry? Like, tell us a little bit about you, man. We were excited.

[D]

My family, you know, I was always in the oil business and when I got to college, I didn't really know what to do. So I did a geology degree. When I got out of school, there were no jobs in the oil business. So my dad said, why don't you go find yourself a job and get trained and then come back someday. And I ended up doing a finance MBA in finance and did a natural gas trading for several years and then I ended up coming back without even thinking about. Never thought I'd be doing this. And I came to this company in 2002, Vice President and became President in 2008, took over the company and we've kind of just grown ever since. Been a great, great move. It's not really kind of what I planned on doing, but it's worked out really well for me.

[A]

It's awesome. And so it sounds like, at least from the little bit of research that I've been doing online, it sounds like that you've got kind of employees kind of stationed at all those different places. And have you seen oil and gas change or rise and fall? Is oil and gas something that you need more employees for at sometimes and lesser at other times or through the years? Has it become kind of a different game?

[D]

Well, if you look at the big companies, when the low prices and gas prices go down, you'll see them do layoffs. I fortunately never had to. Even during COVID when it was nothing, we kept everybody employed. My thought is if you let people go, you're never going to find them again. So we kind of just tighten our belts in the tough times and try to keep a cash cushion around so that when these times do hit and they inevitably will, you know, it's a boomer bust cycle in the oil business. Try to keep it where everybody's going to keep a job. Yeah, because we come out the other side, you're going to need them.

[A]

What kind of folks do you have working with you? Like when you, when you think about the people that are on deck with you, like, I mean you, you're just such a novelty, man. You're so sexy. We're like, man, what, what is, what does Greg do? How does it work? Like, how does his. Taryn and I have a whole theory here at Ops Experts Club and that is operations. Is pretty much operations. Is pretty much operations. You know, we've got people that are brewery clients up in Montana, you know, we've got attorney clients in Wyoming. You know, we have real estate tycoons that we help. We're in the education space. We have all different kinds of folks that we help. But what we found is pretty much regardless of the vertical operations is operations. So I guess we're trying to test it now when it comes to oil and gas. On. Is that really true though? Is that probably true for oil and gas? So talk to us about kind of folks that you, that you have on, on deck and on the team.

[D]

Yeah, I think it is true. Like I said, I've got, my background is geology with an MBA in finance. My CEO who just left recently has a PhD in advanced mathematics. That guy. I've got a geologist. I've got five geologists work for me and then I've got one petroleum engineer, got engineering interns. So since technical and science based for all the stuff we do, of course you got the normal accounting folks and things like that. My field people are the backbone and I'm going to call them Davis Operations. So the guy that my director of field operations started with the company right out of high school and just the guy's brilliant, has worked his way up and he's my number two guy and he's just done a fantastic job. All the operations guys, whether they're well leased operators or they're the walker over crews, the roustabout or the guys that the drilling, the guys that do production, those are my operations guys and they are fantastic. They don't. That's a job that doesn't really require a college degree, but it's a job that you can make six figures in almost immediately.

[A]

That's great. Taran Turner, what about what do. What do you got? What does your brain begin to think about and all the nerdiness.

[C]

I was swimming. I was swimming. Trying to come up with some questions here. But I mean kind of like what I go through with different people is, you know, we've got everybody's a person and then we've Got their job descriptions and that's what they're working from. We've got our task management tools. It's kind of like aligning them towards the projects. Project managers, different people just managing, making sure things are happening. I assume you still got that flow in there with that?

[D]

We do. So mentioned the guy that runs the operations got it divided up below him. So I've got. We operate 450 wells in Texas. So it's a broad area. So I've got a supervisor over each area of Texas. And then we have teams that are under them. The guys that go out to the well every single day, they check the pump on the pumping unit, they check the volume in the tanks, they check that the gas is flowing. There's something broken easily for them to fix. They'll fix it. They can't call the crew out. We'll get a rig out and we'll fix. We'll either pull the pipe or whatever we need to do to fix it. So it's. It's very operations intensive. With the 45 folks I have, probably three quarters of them are field ops. That's what you most need for of those more than anything else.

[C]

Yeah. So they driving from some pretty developed.

[D]

SOPs, you know, they are. That's one of the things that we never had until probably the last five years. And those in place, APIs. I've never heard of a KPI until five years ago. Now everyone has their KPIs to deal with. Our efficiencies are up to 98% in the oil business is ridiculous. We're killing it as far as our efficiencies are going. And I just credit my chief operating officer for doing that. You know, he came in with big industry experience. He's always been kind of a small company. And I knew to take it to the next level I'd have to have somebody that understands the stuff. I don't. And I was able to bring him in and he was able to come and just do a fantastic job. Bad thing is he did such a good job that he got it so efficient that he kind of worked himself out of a job. Got nothing to praise for that man. He can hope he finds a good spot soon and I'm sure he will because he's just a brilliant guy. But he brought in the big. The big words that we never used. So we got SOPs on everything. Now we've got just. It's an amazing different company than it was five years ago.

[C]

Yeah. And do you find that since bringing in SOPs the, the people running with the SOPs, they feel more confident about what they're doing, that they have something to follow.

[A]

Yeah, they do.

[D]

You know, we always had training was like kind of a gray area what your job is, and nobody really knew. Now they know exactly what they're supposed to be doing on a day to day basis, on a month to month basis, on a year to year basis. I mean, so that their job, their jobs will transition depending on what phase we're in the industry, but they know exactly what to do in that phase. So it's been really, it's been fun to watch it, honestly. And everybody seems happy that they've got exactly what they're doing. So there's no question. And it's like, well, you didn't tell me to do that. Well, it's in your sop, man. So we all know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So good. I think that, you know, Taran and I were on a call this morning with another visionary, right. And I think what you said, you said a couple things there that I thought were really, really good. And that was your operator, your main guy, helps you in the things that you weren't good at or the things that you didn't know. And I think just like taking some pressure out of the room, I think a lot of times visionaries or owners of companies, CEOs, can feel like they have to have all the answers. And what that generates is like a really unhealthy, from my perspective. Like they come on the field and then they start micromanaging a bunch of things that they're, quite frankly, not skilled at. Right. And so then they create a bunch of dust. All they're doing is kicking up problems and kicking up dust because they get micromanaging and they get in the weeds and then they tell the people to do something that's probably not the best way for them to do it anyway because their mind is not wired for operations. Their mind is operated for results. Right. And so they're pushing from a results perspective instead of saying, hey, but how did we get here? And where did things break And. Right. They don't want to get that much into the minutia. So then they just try and solve with broad strokes and they, they get off a call feeling like I just really helped the team. But they get out of the call and the team feels like I am so confused on what I'm supposed to do with that, you know, So I think it's great to identify. Just because you're the leader of an organization doesn't mean that all, all things should come back to you, or that you should be the one making all decisions, or that you should be the one putting everybody on the right track. That there's, there's different skill sets. EOS would say the entrepreneurs Operating system from the book Traction by Gino Wickman would say there's a visionary and there's an integrator, and the visionary is the sharp end of the spear, the one out in front, the one that's got the business ideas, the one that's carrying it forward. But they need an integrator that's going to come in and say, okay, I see where you're trying to go, but there's some infrastructure that's going to need to be built out to support your vision. So let me come in and build those out. It sounds like that's what your operator did a great job coming in and creating SOPs. And then I love what you talked about about KPIs, and that was the call Taryn and I was on this morning with another visionary who was trying to roll out KPIs. And we got like a little bit of a circular loop where we start talking about, well, what should the KPIs be? And what I said was, well, let's identify first, what are the things you're going to be blowing people up about the most? Right. Like, you know, as visionaries, there are certain things and a lot of times it's around money, right? Like how much money is coming in, how profitable they are on this, how much energy is going into that. Because I want to be more profitable in these ways. So you tell us what's the burn? Let's determine what the KPI should be. And then that's assign those out to people based upon who the role is. And then once we have those things that the CEO is going to be most like, amped up about, then we can drill down on each one of these roles and develop some of maybe the minor KPIs. But let's make sure we're covering the bases on the big moving numbers that are most important to you. Because otherwise we all know we've all worked for people, we've all, maybe Greg, you and I, CEOs of different companies. Taran has his own company. Like, it's easy for us to get worried about certain things and then we're fixated on it. So let's just take those worries out of the room by giving somebody a metric they're going to have to manage. And then from there, let's determine KPIs based upon their SOPs, like you were saying. Because otherwise what happens is we start coming up with a bunch of, like, random KPIs that we're giving people like KPIs for KPI sake, and then that's not scratching the edge of the CEO and is maybe a harder number to track or to, you know, really report on. And now we're just chasing KPIs for KPIs sake. So I think I really like the whole idea of an SOP that generates a result. And then let's come up with a key performance indicator based on those results that's going to speak the language of the visionary.

[D]

Right? I agree with you 100%.

[A]

Taran, what do you think about all that?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, that is funny that we're just talking about that today, too. And he brought up KPIs, you know, as there. Have you ever dabbled in any sort of performance pay structure based on KPIs?

[D]

We don't really do that.

[A]

Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Let's. Let's just qualify that for a minute. Taryn's project coming out of the meeting today was developing some pay structure around KPI. So I think Terrence tried to put his homework off on you grade. So don't feel too bad if you come away with an answer. I think Tara's trying to get out some work right now, which is research.

[D]

Well, I'll tell you, we don't. Our industry is pretty much standardized as far as PayPoint, a little bit higher than our competitors in the industry because we want to keep people. I do an annual bonus based on performance, on the performance reviews. So it's a percentage of their salary. It's usually 15%. This is at the high end. And it can go up, well, you know, higher if somebody's really a rock star. Or It'll be down 10% at the minimum. So everybody gets a nice bonus, but their base pay is based on pretty much industry standard. It's hard to get away from that, trying to attract people and, you know, it's. I understand what you're trying to do with it, but I don't know if it would work so well in this industry. It's kind of set up that way.

[C]

Yeah, it's pretty tough.

[A]

I think it's tough in a lot of industries. You know, we had the conversation today. It's. I think it's easier to get to that spot if you can tie it back directly to a metric where people are making money for you and you're like, hey, let me create a rev share bonus of some kind of thing if you perform at a certain level. But it's, it becomes tougher, I think, when it becomes operational based rules. So Tara and I talked a lot about when it becomes operations, then I think you flip over into efficiencies, like how can we become more efficient? And then the more efficient you are, then you're actually saving us money. Which I think that's a really hard concept to come up in a visionary's mind is, hey, there are two different ways you make money. One way is like knocking down more dollars and making more money that way. But otherwise, like saving money is actually putting more money back in your pocket too. And it's not realized new dollars. Exactly. Just realizing more dollars make distinct dollars. And so I think if you can come up with strong KPIs that are generating money for you either through sales or through savings, I think that's the easiest spot to do some sort of like performance pay plan if you can get there. But I think like Terence said, it's like you said, Greg, it doesn't work for everybody. And even the ones it does work for, I think you have to be really careful and make sure it makes sense for everyone because you don't want to, you don't want it actually to hurt your business where people are like, well, I'm not going to stick around here because this just doesn't make sense. I'm not financially making it because you've made it too complex on me making money. But at the same time I can appreciate, hey, we're going to reward people if they show up. Well, and if they're not showing up, well, then they're going to feel it and maybe weed themselves out. So I think there's some push and pull for sure.

[D]

What you mentioned that one of the things I do is on my technical team, my geologists and engineers, the ones that are coming up with the projects, and that takes a lot of work to come up with a project, an individual one. I let them invest into the project. So if we have a new oil and gas deal, the guy who generates it can invest up to 2%, 2 and a half percent. The team that worked on it can invest up to 1%. And what I always tell them is, guys, your salary is what pays your bills, your working interest, what you can invest in is what's going to make you rich. And so, you know, if they invest on every single deal they're in, you know, 1% of a hundred million deal is big. You know, you make a million barrels of oil and gas, or of oil, 1% is pretty big.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

And so if you have multiple of those deals, these guys are going to make a lot of money. It also retains them because they won't want to go anywhere else, because why would I leave when I'm killing it here?

[A]

That's super smart. I like that a lot. I like. I, I really love business models where you're enabling your people to win, you know, because, like, it never feels good to strap into a company where you're like, the boss is the only one that wins. Like, I kill myself, I'm work all these hours, I'm doing all this extra, and then I just don't get a win. So I think it's cool, Greg, that you say, hey, what. Let me, let me call you up. Let me call you out. Let's. Let's go get you some wins, too. I think that's a really important thing.

[D]

You're not going to have loyalty people if you don't do that, I don't think. And they'll jump ship to somewhere else for a little bit more money. But they've got big money coming in and, you know, it takes them 10 years, 15 years, 20 years to get that. And they're killing it in 20 years. You know, at first, it doesn't look like much when they, oh, invest in one deal here, and in five years, oh, I've got a nice little check. But in 20 years, I get a big check every month and they're like, this is pretty awesome, you know? Yeah. Problem is they want to retire in 20 years. I'm like, no, no, no.

[A]

Greg and I are both in Wellspring, which is Pete Vargas's mastermind. And, you know, when Dan Martel spoke on this, I don't know if you remember this, but just from our, our last gathering this past year in Florida in Boca Raton. But Dan Martell came and he said that really, he only ever expects to keep somebody for about four years. And if they'll come and they'll give him a strong four years, that. I thought this was really unique because I've never heard somebody say this before, but he said he'll tell them straight. If you'll give me your best for the next four years, I'll help you get to where you want to get to after this. You know what I mean? And I thought, man, what, what a brilliant wake. And the way he said he did it was he asked them what they dream about, hey, what do you dream about? What do you want? Like where, where would you want to go? I'll, I'll open up my Rolodex, I'll introduce you. Anybody you want to be introduced to, I'll help you get into whatever it is you want to get into. And some people over those four years, like Dan did some really powerful things. Gave some guys some dream car. His, one of his high sales guys got him into his dream car. And it's like once you start establishing some of those loyalties, those guys don't want to go anywhere. So you open up their opportunity. You're saying, hey, I only expected for four years I'll be get to anywhere next. But you come to the four years and you've been treating them like that, it's very, very likely they're going to want to stick around with you for another four or another. So I think really helping people see, hey, how can a rising tide lift all shifts? When it comes to money coming into the business, I'm not just going to get rich as the entrepreneur or as the main guy. I'm going to help us all win. I think that's a beautiful thing.

[D]

I love that and I think my team loves that. They all want to stay. You know, I've got one 40 year employee that's been with the company that long since before me. I've got a couple of 30 year, a lot of 20 years. I don't have much turnover. People like where they, what they're doing and they stay.

[A]

Taryn, have we ever talked to anybody on any of our shows ever? 40 year employee?

[C]

No.

[A]

Taryn, I expect you to be with me for the next. Can I just say, you've been with me for 10, I just want 30 more out of you. I don't feel like that's too much to ask. Like let's just, let's do this until we're 60 and 70, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's not a big deal.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I'm down.

[D]

The older guys that have been there, you know, they, they kind of, they're doing different jobs and they may not be as out in the heat as much but you know, they still like being there with people and they still like the job. And we will, we'll change their job description and give them a better, you know, something that's a little easier for the, for the old guys to do. But as long as they want to stay and they're performing and functioning and I'd love to keep them that's institutional knowledge. You just can't. You can't just build overnight, you know, so you know, somebody that's been there for so long, they know where the pipelines are, they know where all the skeletons are buried. And it's like, you know, those guys are the ones that can really do. You know, when you scratch your head and say, where is that? Oh, I've got a map in my head. Let me show you where it is.

[A]

You know?

[D]

And that's something you just can't get overnight.

[A]

Man, I wish. I wish more people, Taryn. Like, I think so. Oftentimes the visionaries can get in their mind that if somebody isn't performing the way they want to perform pretty quick, and I thought they determine it pretty quick. They're pretty quick to want to cut people loose instead of realizing, no, no, it may take them a little bit of time and once. But if I treat them right and I culture them right and I give them the right expectations, right. KPIs, I reward them when they're succeeding. I tell them when they're not, and we last it through the storm. I do feel like, Greg, to your point, like you are creating a map in their head of institutional knowledge. I know, Taryn, you were talking about that the other day with one of the visionaries of. Hey, hey, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, don't let her go. Like, she carries all the institutional knowledge of things that nobody else here knows. Be really careful. Have we coached her up? Have we done quarterly evals with her? Have we taught her what we want her to know? Have we told her where she's showing up? Well, but I think a lot of times visionaries are just. It's really black and white. Yeah, they're awesome. No, they suck. You know what I mean? And then it's like one of the other realizing, no, no. Working things through with people, helping them understand what our expectations are. And then what you're also really investing into them is institutional knowledge for how you do, what you do, why you do, which is going to be a benefit for you over time, as long as you're culturing them the right way.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, everybody, every business we're in, anybody we've talked to, it's all people. I mean, it's the people business. And then you happen to make a product, you know, you can't do it without the people you have. Yeah. And it's. And it's way cheaper and more efficient and easier, you know, And I'm not saying this in a Bad way. But to, to keep somebody around than to want to get rid of somebody and get somebody new, man.

[A]

ROI on existing talent. Like, don't underestimate that, man. You've invested so much in this person. Could you just spend a little bit more time to refine down the. You don't like because as you cut them loose, you lose all of that investment time. You know, like, don't, don't lose the ROI on your existing people by not spending the time you need to spend with them to culture them the right ways. That's. I love that. I love that heart. I remember Rob Bell has something he says about the village elder is what he talks about it. But he says, you know, here in America, we're so funny with our older people. We send them to this, this place called Florida. I mean and it's like we, we stay away all of our older people and like they, they become all these really valuable people that were with these businesses for all these years that have all of this knowledge that could be such a wealth and instead we make them feel like they need to like retire and be placed someplace other that is not for us any longer instead of, no, no. How can we draw out of people that have seen a lot and experienced a lot and have a wealth of understanding that can actually help us maneuver forward. So I love that, Greg. I think it's so cool.

[D]

Now, don't get me wrong, I do have guys that, you know, they get to a point where, you know, I want to go enjoy life. I want to go ride my best boat, I want to go grandkids out. I tend to offer them a contract or consulting job. Hey, you consult where we need you, you know, maybe two or three days a month, you know, sometimes, sometimes it's two weeks a month, you know, and these guys are happy to come back and do that, you know, because they know that, hey, there's always, you know, I don't have to go fishing all the time. That's been a lot of fun too, having the sages come back. I saw one guy the other day who was one of my head driller for 32 years. And when we start drilling, I'll bring it back for the first well with the new guys and he'll kind of train them up, you know, like I make sure everything's running good and then he'll go back and play golfer. Just love to have it. You don't ever get to retire completely. I'm going to keep you around somewhere.

[A]

Love that.

[C]

Nobody wants to truly do nothing no, Right.

[A]

And it helps them feel important still. Like, as you know, I mean, like, I just think what a sad thing. Like, they were so important for such a long amount of time, and then they're just not needed anymore. Nobody likes that feeling. Like, everybody wants to feel needed and feel important and feel good at something like that. That helps us all. So I think that's awesome. Well, Greg, man, it's been so good to have you on the show. It goes by so quick, but I super appreciate just who you are. Your friendship is great. And I feel like we've talked through some really good things today about KPIs and SOPs and the value of people and investing in folks and making sure you're understanding the ROI of your people and keeping them around as long as you can for the sake of the institutional knowledge that they possess. Such a great example you've got in your company. Thank you for spending time with us, man.

[D]

Got one last thing at you real quick, please. There's a show out now about the oil and gas industry called Land. Tim Sheridan wrote it and it directs. It's got John Ham, Billy Bob Thornton anymore. I just want to let you guys know, it's not real. Some of your first only asking. I don't. People think that's real. That happens in my entire career. So just don't believe that I'd recommend it, but it's not.

[A]

Thank you for educating us. Because I was going to go start watching. I'm like, oh, is that what Greg does? And so now I know. No, that's not what Craig does.

[D]

Guys, this has been so much fun. Thanks for inviting me to do this. Aaron and Taryn, it's been a great talk.

[C]

Yep, yep. Good to see you.

[A]

All righty. Well, OPS Experts, thanks for tuning in and we'll see everybody next week here on OPS Experts Club. Have a great day.

[B]

Thank you for tuning in to the Ops Experts Club podcast. New episodes available every week on Spotify, itunes and everywhere you listen to podcasts. If you're curious about how some of the biggest names in entrepreneurship have scaled their businesses to the next level, check out some of our best content on this topic by going to [e-mail].

[A]

You.

[B]

Can find the link in our bio and do your part to improve as an OPS Expert.