← The Ops Experts Club Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Hey experts listeners, I want to key you into something that we do very special here at OPS Experts Club and that's a masterclass. We have a free masterclass called Foundations that Scale. And the great thing about this masterclass is it's for operation professionals who are growing businesses. One of the most dangerous things you can do as an operator is grow businesses on a foundations that's not stable. So in this particular masterclass, we take apart all of the inside pieces of your team, your tech and how they're using time and, and we make sure that you're building on a foundation that's stable. So if you want to check out a great masterclass completely for free, go to foundationsthatscale.com we'll see you there.
- [00:36]
B
Welcome to the Ops Experts Club with Aaron Taran and Savannah. This podcast will take you behind the scenes of some of the finer details of multimillion dollar companies. These ops experts have dealt with operations for scaling companies and well established businesses with anywhere from small to large teams. If you've ever been deep into the details of a major company, then you know how much it takes and these conversations are just for you. Welcome to the Ops Experts Club podcast.
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A
Ops Experts Club. Taryn Turner.
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C
Aaron Ovivia. Good to see you too.
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A
Today, today we are going to talk Ops Experts about the difference between llamas and alpacas. Yes.
- [01:22]
C
And quick fact, there is no difference. They're exactly the same.
- [01:26]
A
Hey, no controversy here. No controversy here. I'm not going to get in the middle of that one. So just kidding. Taran and I were talking about topics and he goes, hey, we could just defer back to that, you know, if we need to go back to it. So there may be some, some barnyard talk in future episodes. Just so you know, because Taryn, if you guys don't know this, Taryn is pretty much Farmer Turner, like old MC Turner has a farm that's Taren. And so we can talk about all kinds of barnyard animals because Taran does indeed have a farm these days. In fact, Taran, if they wanted to follow your farmland adventures, don't you have someplace they could go?
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C
Yes.
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A
Yes I do. But I haven't updated my content. Let me update my content first. I'll tell you about the next episode.
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C
Yes, no, we do have Instagram, Deli Valley Farm. I am the worst at social media. I was assigned this spot and I'm failing, so I'm forever.
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A
You wouldn't even be on social media. In fact, you had like a creeper address that nobody knew about. Just so you didn't. People didn't know you're on social media. So it's funny that you have to maintain social media. Amazing.
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C
Yeah, I still have my secret Facebook account, but that's just for Facebook Marketplace which has been pretty handy.
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A
I love it. Well, hey ops experts, I thought today we could talk about delving into the digital marketplace, the digital market space when it comes to products and, and services from some sort of platform of selling digitally, whether it's through webinars, whether it's through challenges, whether it's through some sort of social media medium, you know, but selling completely digital because I think that some people, we do a lot of it, we've done a lot of it, done a lot of some really big names out there. Pete Vargas, Pedro Adeo, Johnny Cuff, Dr. Darius Daniels, like some really great. Brandon Turner, Pace Morby, some guys, we've got to really work with it, do this really well. But I think sometimes what we've found is people underestimate how much it takes to move into a digital space. You know, maybe they have a really big following. You know, we picked up some clients as of late who are, you know, really, really big, you know, like on TV or really big stages that they're in front of. And you know, I think that it can be very interesting to consider, well maybe I could just start a digital project product or maybe I could sell by not having to be on stage. Right. That's, you know, Pete Vargas whole brand was staged scale. Like how a scale out of just being on stages, you know. But I think it's very, very important to realize what you're getting into before you get into it because the lift is mighty. It's a big deal. It's not just I'm going to start selling something digital and that sounds cool, that'd be pretty good. I have followers, I can just pipe them in there. Turn. You want to talk about that a little bit to kick us off?
- [04:01]
C
Yeah, for sure. And I think, you know, another big goal is not just not selling on stage, but where do I take my audience after the stage too? It's like they've experienced time with me. What do I have next? What else can I give them that isn't just a live event or isn't just, you know what I'm used to a book talk, a speech. So that brings us to where you know, we are. We got digital products, great place to be. Knowledge based products too, as people call them. What's my topic? What's my sweet spot? What's my, what's my niche, you know, what's my proven process, what's my guarantee, all that kind of stuff. What can I teach people that they can't get elsewhere or that has a unique spin on it? Because I'm good at public speaking, I'm good at this so far. So I can put that into whatever I'm offering to people who have already spent time with me or know my name, might go deeper with me on this. So now we've got courses, obviously it's the big one there, communities, another good one there that people are jumping into. And yeah, it's a great, great next step to take your business when you want to diversify. But you also got to consider what it's going to take to get there.
- [05:11]
A
Yeah. And that realistically, whatever you've been doing up to this point to get you to where you're at, that doesn't necessarily stop. Right. You probably are still going to keep speaking on stages. You're probably still going to keep putting the energy into whatever your big platform is and this is going to be extra. And I think that sometimes what I found is people will minimize what, what that's going to take and then, man, it can be pretty exhausting at the beginning. And I think that really coming into both eyes open of like, count the cost, make sure this is something you want to do. Because yes, there's a great opportunity there. But no good thing comes with nothing, right. You can't just spin up something that's not very good and expect people to raise their hand and jump on board. And I think too, just like you said, have some strategy before you get there. Right. Like it's. So let's say you've been speaking on a stage, what is the next thing you could give them? But then where's that going to lead to? That's beyond just that next thing you can give them. Right. Because you're hopefully you're going to have some sort of ascension that people can ascend with you either systematically, Right. Either they take you at your next ticket offer or based upon their station in life. Right. You have some people that are like, oh man, I love that dude. I love everything he has to say. I just want more one to one time or one to few time. And I'm willing to pay whatever the price is to get close proximity. So having a multi tiered offer is great. And it's not always necessary to ascend them up an ascension ladder. A lot of it can be. No, no. There are different strata of people that are willing to spend certain dollars on certain things and having an offering for each one.
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C
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when you go to the grocery store, there's a reason why there's three different versions of the same product. You know, different price points, different people are going to buy it. Same exact setup for your offer too.
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A
Yeah, I think it's really good to, you know, Russell Brunson, I think was the one that really made this something that's a common language for anybody that's dealing with digital marketing. And anybody in the digital marketing space knows Russell Brunson's name knows click funnels, but he came up with the term funnel hacking, which was, okay, so like what is a competitor out there that's a close proximity to you and then opt into their stuff and take apart exactly what they've done to try and mimic success. Right. I think that we would always advocate for find somebody that's doing something that impresses you and find a. Make sure it's pretty close, a close parallel to what you're doing so that you can duplicate or replicate. I think that really helps when it comes to strategy. Right. Because you. There's probably two ways you can go about it, right. You go hire a strategy coach. Coach that has been and done what you're hoping to do before. Right. So then you're going to usually have to pay a pretty decent amount of money or give them some sort of rev share. Right. They're going to want to profit share with you in their idea coming to fruition. There's that way of strategy. Or you could mimic something that is already highly successful that you could closely parallel and which is obviously the lesser expensive way. Right. And so I would say probably choosing a vein of how you can replicate next. The thing that I like about funnel hacking and Russell's whole process of doing it that way is you can. You can take apart each piece. Right. So I would say I've known tons of guys that have bought products from their competitors just for the sake of saying, okay, how did they do their opt in sequence? How did they do their fulfillment? What's the product levels they offered, what was offered at each level. How are they doing ascension? How are they escalating people up? I think taking apart people that have gone on before you or have been successful at the next level above you is a great way of identifying how can I grow into this new space. But realize that's going to take some time too. Right. Like all those pieces are. Require some kind of expertise that you may or may not Have?
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C
Yeah. And once you definitely got that strategy down, you've. You've pulled it apart. You got to create your content. You know, what is it that you're going to sell? What are you going to provide to the people? Usually video courses is going to be right up in there after you've got some sort of, maybe you've got written content, you've got some brochures or handouts, some. Something low they can get for a few bucks. Courses, though, with video content. And there's two great ways to do the courses, and my favorite is you do it once live with your first group and you record it, then you pay a video editor to edit it and then that becomes your course for the future. For every iteration afterwards, it's no longer live. You're not providing yourself and your time anymore. But you got to give that live experience to somebody at first and record it. And now it's just a replay type course. Or you can produce it from the beginning, just record it and then put it on a course and deliver it. But I personally like the live one because the first time you do it, you can even charge more for it because it's going to be a live offering.
- [09:51]
A
Yep. I think too what you just said there, that was really smart is the first one's going to probably be if you do that model, it's going to probably. It's going to take some of your time. Right. You're not going to be able to just like that's not just going to come out of nothing. You can't just like rubber band together a bunch of your different speaking engagements and try and just pack that up and just sell it for any kind of high price point.
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C
Right.
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Because they probably can find a lot of that stuff for free on YouTube. Right. They can probably, depending on how you've been doing your stuff up to this point. So I think really thinking through, I'm probably going to have to invest some time into this first one. It's going to take me the time to record is going to take me the time to have the live engagements with people. Depending on how many of those you do. If it's a challenge, if it's a multiple episodes, depends on how you're going to do it, but it's going to take some time. You're going to take some production in that. There's going to be some cost, there's going to be some marketing that has to happen around it. All of those things are going to cost dollars. But the hope would be is that you don't have to keep doing that because there are some people that continue to do live every time, which is just exhausting. Right. You just put out so much energy. But the flip side of that is realizing as well, like once you do end up making that offer and you're selling that recorded piece on the backside, be careful how much time you're collateralizing on whatever you're going to sell downstream. Right. Because your investment had been made in that first thing. But sometimes I think, Taryn, you. What you and I can find is that visionaries new to the digital space will be very like very quick to offer up their time as something that sweetens the deal. You know, they're going to coach through their program for the first seven weeks or for the first 10 weeks or 12 weeks or whatever, they're going to be the coach. And I think that sometimes the danger can be, well, do you want to be on a weekly call every week? Is that something that you want to commit to or like just be asking yourself whatever you're selling people up to the next round, make sure you want to give that much time to it. Because what we find a lot of times is visionaries don't really enjoy that a whole lot and usually it leads to them wanting to pivot out of that, which can lead to a pain point of something that you promised that you're now stuck into having to fulfill or give money back because that's what you promise to people.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Yep.
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And it's going to take that work at the beginning. Like you said, create the content, get it out there, get in front of people. It could be a pretty big investment at first financially and time wise. But absolutely set it up in such a way to where it's not going to be any more time in the future. Save that for your high ticket coaching product, you know, which is a great spot for anybody who's got an offer they can provide. People are going to want it at some point, save it for there, that's your time. And then you can tell people after that I charge X amount per hour to be with me. And it's not a lie, it's, it's real. It's not a speaking thing. It's a one on one. This is my time per hour if you want to be with me.
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A
Yeah, I think once you've created something, I think there are probably a couple different ways you could distribute it. Right. You could do it's just a course or it's a coast a course with a moderator. Right. There's A couple different tiers you can offer. Where one is, they're just pursuing it at their own pace, right? They're just consuming whatever you're offering at their own pace. Another one is a guided pursuit where you're doing it in cohort based. Right. Where you open it up certain frequencies. But it's like you have some sort of guided media or moderator. Not you as the visionary, but somebody that you've trained up on your team that understands your frameworks, that is going to show up and help people where they get stuck. We've seen that done all different kinds of ways. We've seen that done with office hours or maybe it's just you open up office hours and they show up. If they show up, they don't show up, they don't show up or other people, it's like, no, no. We actually have a coaching session that happens at this time every day or this time every week, but really be thinking through are there a couple different tiers you could use the same, the same vein with? And then also could there be something beyond that depending on how robust your training system is? Could you certify people to be trainers in this and could they go off and coach people independently and then they're making some revenue and doing a rev share with you on it? We've seen different people. I think Darius Daniels does that great with his education and then with a moderator and then with some office hours and then also offer some coaching that he makes a chunk back on for anybody that goes through the coaching and is, is certified and then they're able to coach others super smart in the way that he does things. I think that it's a great model.
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C
Yeah, I, I like too. Just like the live implementation calls you can do once a month depending on what tier you're selling. So once you start getting up there in tiers, you know, if they're spending thousand dollars on a course or something, maybe it does come with like a one to two hour call with you in a group setting. You know, you can answer questions, you can review the content, you can do something great. Now that's just going to sell the next tier. Sometimes that does require your time too. So if you don't want to go there, you don't want to do any more time, you can stick to the lower tier, it's already prerecorded, nothing else is needed from you. But you are going to have to sell it. You know, do a webinar maybe every quarter, get people to sign up, sell it live and that's it.
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A
Definitely depends on the price point. Right. And Taryn, I'm not sure what you found historically, what the price point is on where you need to move from just pushing people at a button where they're going to be able to purchase at their own time, at their own speed or where you feel like no, no, they need to actually we need to book a call. Like they need to book a call and have a sales guy close them because the ticket price is too high for us to expect. They're just going to buy it based upon the energy you were able to create in a, in a digital setting. Not sure what your thoughts are on that. Do you. Do you have any gut feeling on that?
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C
Yeah, I mean I don't have any specific data but we usually see under a thousand things. Things can close on their own pretty easily depending on your audience too.
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Yeah.
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C
But then again we do have another client. Her program is, gosh, what is it? Two, just over 2,000. And they aren't on sales calls there. It's all live webinar nurture emails, early bird special to cart close. But yeah, once you start getting above there, you can be definitely looking at sales calls or another method we've seen work is a group Q and A sessions. So instead of doing individual sales calls, host an like an open house style zoom. Anybody who hasn't joined yet can come in. You can get answers to questions in bulk in a group setting and that's going to push people to the cart, but only require one or two people's time for a couple hours. Yeah.
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A
Oh, that's good. So I think probably all those different pieces are things you need to be working through as you're dreaming about. Can I move beyond just the stage? Can I move beyond? Yes. I've got this big following that I want to take to the next level and I want to create a digital product or a different, a different microcosm that I can sell to regardless without them just being have to be live there there with me. And I think that. So take into consideration what it's going to take to build it. Right. Because all those ideas take time to build it. I would say think time and money. Right. Because that's. People aren't able to turn stuff out overnight, you know, and you don't want them to. People that we've seen that have rushed a launch, usually there's a breakage downstream that they haven't accounted for and it really affects their sales. So be intentional, think through how this is going to roll out. Think about what the implication is going to be at every level that you're going to offer. And then, Taren, there's some people that would advocate for even before you build the fulfillment vehicle, like, try and sell and see if it sells. And then if it sells, then get in there and build it, you know what I mean? Because then you're not putting a bunch of time into the build before you see what the interest is, you know, and obviously there's some pressure on the fulfillment on that side of things if you haven't built it yet. But you also don't spend a bunch of time building something that you get nominal success from. And then you just think, man, I just put so much time into the filming on that, and people just were not as interested as I thought they were going to be. You want to talk about that for a minute? On when should you build and how much should you build? I know we as operators hate the idea of sell before you build it, but I understand why. I mean, Pedro Adeo was king of that, right? Pedro Adeo was the king of, well, let's just get it out there. Let's just see if there's interest in it and then hustle it. Like, build it one week in advance of every drip, right? Like, do we just have next week's done? Do we just have next week's done? Do we just have. And I mean, I understand Pedro would be honest about that. He talked about that all the time of why would I spend all the time building this thing if I'm not even sure people are going to want it? Make the offer, see what the interest is, then build it on the backside, maybe. Do you have thoughts around that?
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C
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely works, you know, and I've seen it go both ways where people take it and you offer it to them and then maybe only a handful of people take it and you say, you know what, we're canceling this. You know, here's your money back. Or you can transfer it to this other program or something else. Yeah, sorry about that. So, yeah, I mean, it goes both ways. But more often than not, I've seen it work. You know, really depends on who you are. And if you have the buyer base already, if people have purchased from you, they will purchase from you again. I think that's the key difference.
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A
I think. No, but I think one of the key differences, what you just said right before, that too, and that is depending on the type of person that you are. Because some people, that stresses them out to no end. That they would get people to buy something they haven't built yet. And, like, the stress behind, like, am I going to be able to fulfill at a fast enough speed? Because some people just are not used to digital speed, you know, that was something that took me a long time to get used to when we got into this space in the very beginning. T is how fast digital space can move. A visionary can have an idea this morning and be launching a funnel by this afternoon, and we'd be selling things by this evening. And in digital world, sometimes that can be slow. Sometimes they could have even done that faster, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's. And I think that that's so different than a brick and mortar where I have an idea. I want to open a coffee shop. Well, I've got to go, like, I've got to go get formals and I've got to go buy machines, build my building, and then I've got to start marketing to get people to show up. And so I'm not going to see anything come out of this idea I have maybe for the first year or two, you know what I mean? But it's crazy how fast digital speed can move. And so sometimes what I found is people that aren't used to digital speed, they don't realize. No, no. There's going to be a lot of pressure here at the beginning because things can move so fast. So just realize you could build on the fly. You can go that fast. Sometimes we'll have new clients start and they're like, hey, do you think you could have that done, you know, in two or three weeks? And we just think behind the scenes. Yeah. I thought you were going to say two or three days, you know, I thought you were going to say by tomorrow afternoon, you know, So I will say just realizing there is, there is. There can be a lot of pressure that comes out of digital because it can move so fast. And just taking that into consideration.
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C
Yeah. And your confidence will only come from your faith in your team, too.
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Yes.
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You don't have a lot of faith in your team that they can do it that quick. That could be a drop of confidence.
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A
And I will say so. I mean, shameless plug. I would say, find people that have done what you're asking them before, you know, like, don't let people tell you they've done. Like, make sure they're showing you what they've done. Make sure they've got good testimonials of what they've done. Make sure they have people you can go back and talk to who they've done it with. Because it's very easy to sell an idea and it's very different to actually get it done in a timeline that's real because that's something we see all the time. Jaron is like vendors or agencies that will make promises that they collect money on and then it just takes a really long time to get across the finish line because they've gotten too many yeses and they're too backed up on workflow. And then they, they will give you half baked and then you have to quality control it and realize, wait a minute, this is only, you only built half of this and then you have to go back and then there's all the project management time instead of just no, no. The team that you're working with, have they done this before? What's the timeline they committed to? And you're not going to pay them the rest of what you owe them until they deliver it to you on time. Like that's, that's super important.
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C
Yeah. And maybe that's the secret behind selling it before you build it because then you have to get it done at a certain time.
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I will say I do think for visionaries, like I think that they need that extra pressure. Right. They're like, no, no. Our go luck. We have to, our day one opening, like our congratulatory meeting is on Tuesday so we, we have to get it done. They'll put in that extra time. Otherwise maybe they just push it off or slough it off or do I do something funner? I would say this too. And just a final thought is probably a lot of last minute things that will come up that you're going to have to do. Like that you're not used to. If you haven't been in a digital environment, maybe you have to shoot some more videos. Maybe you'll have to do a couple more calls where you let people ask you questions. Like in the final hours of cart close, you're going to want to push the extra gas into the engine for the sake of getting across the finish line. And that's not always convenient. And that's not always. If you've experienced a lot of success on stages, you may or may not be ready for that. Because usually you go, you get paid to do something, you show up, you do your thing, you're done, you don't have to think about it anymore. But the digital space, that's just not how it works. The digital space, your team is going to probably keep needing things from you. Keep needing new assets from you, keep needing new videos for the hooks, keep needing new things that they can push out for ads for the sake of getting it across the finish line. So I'd say the whole thing to wrap up this whole show is Count the cost going into it is digital good space to get into. If you already been speaking on stage, you want to grow. I think it's a great space to get into, but I do think it's not easy. It comes to the cost and the people that have done it year over year and are very successful with it realize it's a hustle. It really is. The digital space is a hustle character as always. Excellent. Alpacas vs. Llamas yes, thanks for tuning in. We'll see you here next week.
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Thank you for tuning in to the OPS Experts Club Podcast. New episodes available every week on Spotify, itunes, and everywhere you listen to podcasts. If you're curious about how some of the biggest names in entrepreneurship have scaled their businesses to the next level, check out some of our best content on this topic by going to foundationscale.com.
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A
Youm.
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Can find the link in our bio and do your part to improve as an OPS Expert.