← The Ops Experts Club Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, experts listeners, I want to key you into something that we do very special here at OPS Experts Club, and that's a masterclass. We have a free masterclass called Foundations that Scale. And the great thing about this masterclass is it's for operation professionals who are growing businesses. One of the most dangerous things you can do as an operator is grow businesses on a foundations that's not stable. So in this particular masterclass, we take apart all of the inside pieces of your team, your tech and how they're using time and, and we make sure that you're building on a foundation that's stable. So if you want to check out a great masterclass completely for free, go to foundationsthatscale.com. we'll see you there.
- [00:36]
B
Welcome to the Ops Experts Club with Aaron Taran and Savannah. This podcast will take you behind the scenes of some of the finer details of multimillion dollar companies. These OPS experts have dealt with operations for scaling companies and well established businesses with anywhere from small to large teams. If you've ever been deep into the details of a major company, then you know how much it takes and these conversations are just for you. Welcome to the OPS Experts Club podcast.
- [01:09]
A
Experts Club. That's it right there, Jared. If you can make a rap out of that, I would be so pumped. Dude, the Beastie Boys were some skinny white dudes, bro. If they can pull it off, we could pull it off.
- [01:19]
C
Nice. Yeah, I like chicken wraps. Those are my favorite.
- [01:23]
A
They are delicious. I like Mediterranean chicken wraps, like when they go, you know, Mediterranean sauce in them. Delicious.
- [01:31]
C
Nice. You're on the verge of a euro there, aren't you?
- [01:33]
A
That is on the verge of a euro. You know what I also like though too? Like some people do like a Thai chicken wrap, also equally delicious. So I'm not, I'm not narrowly persuaded towards the Greeks. Dude, I'll take any kind of nationality in a wrap.
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C
That is great. I keep tortillas on hand because I think you can always throw anything in a tortilla and any leftover, put it in a tortilla. Lasagna, tortilla.
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A
Oh, dude, I say I just use lettuce. Just lettuce wraps. I just lettuce wrap everything just like right there. You don't get calories. It's nice and cool. Cool and hot. It's a great combo.
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C
Smart, smart.
- [02:05]
A
All right, what about. No, we gotta cut it off, we gotta cut it off, we gotta cut it off. Otherwise the craziness never stops. Okay, so let's talk about today. Can you Go on vacation. Or maybe it's better. Will you allow yourself to go on vacation? Because I think a lot of us end up shackling ourselves and creating a prison of our own design when it comes to. Oh, we call it around here.
- [02:27]
C
Ooh.
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A
Ooh.
- [02:30]
C
Yes, we do. And as a lot of things we discussed, Aaron and I take vacations on opposite ends of the spectrum.
- [02:37]
A
We do. We have a different kind of vacationing here. So I think it's good if you like the. The Tale of Two Cities as we talk about it together.
- [02:44]
C
Yes, sir.
- [02:45]
A
Yeah.
- [02:45]
C
But I think everybody can and should take time off work, even if you don't go anywhere.
- [02:52]
A
And what you mean by take time off work, for those of you who are Biltmore like me, is. No, seriously. Time off work, that means, like, unplug. You've told me before, hey, I'm going out of town, and I'm not bringing my computer. So God bless you. I hope it all works out. Right. There have been times.
- [03:08]
C
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
- [03:11]
A
But one of those was your. Was your honeymoon. So, I mean, I'll give you an extra grace on that one.
- [03:14]
C
Yes, yes. And it came from years of practice. I've. I've learned how to do it, learned how to set it up, set people up, get my calendar cleared, get my processes in place, do it all, you know, so I can leave.
- [03:28]
A
But I will say, you are kind of the, like, the Yoda. You're like the Yoda Jedi Master on this one. And I feel like I am a little bit your Padawan learner, and you have been a little bit more proud of me through the last couple of years, with me thinking a little bit more in advance. Right. Scheduling some things out, getting out from certain things, not trying to do every meeting I'm doing out of town just because I'm in Europe and I can do it while everybody's sleeping. That doesn't mean that that's when I should do it. You know what I mean? Like, be thinking about how you're vacationing and what is vacationing intended for?
- [03:57]
C
Yes. So can you take a vacation, Erin?
- [04:02]
A
Everybody can. It's will you. Is will you. And to what degree does vacation mean to you?
- [04:10]
C
Or do you feel like you can.
- [04:14]
A
I'm still on the fence of what I really. If what I. What I do is considered a vacation. But I'm working on it. I'm working towards it. You know, I'm going to Yosemite this next week. That's a great example. So. So, like, when I go down Belize, it's really tough, right. Because I. I own coffee shops down there. So it's really hard for me to go down to Belize with a vacation mindset because I'm going to check in on the stores and I'm going to take kids out to dinner. And there's all these things associated with work, right. So maybe I can take a break from collab team work up here in the States, but I go someplace and I'm still working again. But Yosemite is different because Internet service sucks. Right. And I'm camping. Right. So it's a different experience. I'm not wearing like a collared shirt. I like coming to my Zoom meetings looking like business when I come, you know, and so like, I can't. I'm not wearing collared shirts down in Yosemite. That's not going to happen. So I do think there are going to be times where maybe certain kinds of vacations are done one way. Other vacations are like true vacation. But next week, I don't think I'll take my computer because I don't know that I want my computer living in a tent or being around that much dirt, you know? So I think that definitely I want to get to a place where I can take a true vacation. Yeah.
- [05:20]
C
You feel like you've reached that place because you have set up the right things in place to be gone.
- [05:26]
A
Yeah, I feel like this is my therapy session. But yes, I do feel like it's because I've set the right things up in place that we're gone. So, Taryn, why don't you. Because you are the Jedi that sets up the frameworks. Why don't you walk people through what you think goes into a good ooo. And maybe we could talk about some. Some fringe benefits that come out of quarterly planning too, that we could talk about how we could set ourselves up for a better OO this next quarter. Yeah.
- [05:51]
C
My favorite thing about taking some ooh Is if you've got out of office plan set up, that's something you can just have living document. You can even set it up ahead of time as a quarterly rock. Done that before. And that's just basically outlining what are the key things that could happen in your absence. So it's not necessarily every single thing you do, but if this comes up, where does somebody go? What should they do? Is there a process in place? It's more of like, you know, the emergency phone numbers list you leave for the babysitter. It's not necessarily detailed instructions, but it's just saying in Case this happens, this is going to be your best spot for answers. From there, though, then you should also have your key responsibilities soped out that need to happen while you're gone, because business is going to stay open while you're gone. So you're going to have to sop out what still needs to take place, what emails still need to be sent, what meetings need to be attended or led in your absence. You know, anything like that. It's going to have a strong SOP in place.
- [06:59]
A
Yeah, I think that SOPs are key. And I know for us at the CoLab team, every quarter, as we do quarterly planning and every quarterly rock sheet, right, because we're operating from EOS traction teaches level 10 meetings. For the weekly meeting structure, everyone's assigned out a quarterly rock or a set of quarterly rocks, three to five to be exact. And what we'll always try and include in every quarterly rock is so P out one to three duties. And I would say, as you create those SOP standard operating procedures, I would choose the things that are most critical, you know, so that you can go on vacation. So, like, for me, let's give an example. Next week is payroll week. I still execute all payroll. You know, Faith does, you know, all the reconciling and does all the invoicing and does, you know, make sure everybody's stuff is straight and clean and tabby double checks to make sure that everything is dialed in from a second set of eyes to make sure that profitability and everything is all in the line. But when it comes to actually pushing pay, that's still my role. And so for me, for me to take a true vacation, if it hits on a payroll week like next week, I need to have SOP lined out. And in that sop, I need to line out step by step, what goes into that and what access they need. And then I need to figure out who's the trusted person that I put at the driver's seat to be able to execute payroll, you know, So I think that thinking through what is that critical thing that maybe you've only done in the past? Who's a trusted next person that you could entrust it to? And then could I create an SOP that's simple enough that a monkey could execute this thing? How? How could I. How can I give them something that it's like it's going to answer their questions if they get stuck? They're smart people, but it literally is. And the easiest way I would say to do that is next time you do the thing, pull Up a little thing to a little pad to the side, or, you know, type out just a quick word document of step one, step two, step three, and then pushed over to somebody to put into an SOP format. If you're too busy for that, if you're a visionary or you're somebody higher up on a food chain that has assistance or people that work underneath you, you don't have to do it all. We just gotta get it outta your brain. Otherwise it's always gonna be shackling you, you're always gonna be bound to it, you're never gonna be able to leave and truly, like, be able to take your mind off of the thing that is most shackling you.
- [09:03]
C
Yep. And be sure to assign it out as a task because they might not remember it's not part of their regular routine. Give them a task, be specific, tell them exactly when they need to do it, when it's due by, and where it goes from there.
- [09:19]
A
Yep. The thing I love about what you just said about tasks is. And listen. I know everybody that's listening may or may not be committed to a task management software. We use Asana. We love Asana. I know there are people out there that use Microsoft Monday and ClickUp and all sorts of things. There are all sorts of project management tools that you can use. I will say the nice thing about it being in one of those tools is you have visibility on it. So let's say you take this, let's say in my example of payroll, this next time I type it all out, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Which I have done, right? But I take all the steps, I give them all the access points, I share through LastPass, the password sharing tool, with whoever it is that's going to be taking it over in my absence. And then I bring it into Asana and I commit that Asana project to somebody so that I'm a collaborator. And I can see as they complete it and I ask them at the end, like for us, anytime we assign something out to somebody else on the team, they need to comment back at the end of it, at Aaron complete. I mean, that way I know. And I don't have to wonder, did they get that done? Did they get it all checked off? No, no, no. They have all the steps. They have every ability to do that. And we're collaboratively watching something because on, on Asana, they call it a collaborator. I've been made a collaborator on that task and I can see when they push it back to me and it's complete. So there's a peace of mind that comes with it too.
- [10:35]
C
Yeah. So, I mean, from there you really gotta ask yourselves, can I take a vacation? I mean, you can, like you said, but did I work myself into a spot to where there's nobody who can execute this? Like in your situation, Aaron, you have to give other people certain specific controlled access to execute payroll, you know, and it might be private access, might be something nobody else has access to.
- [11:01]
A
Yep.
- [11:02]
C
So did you lock yourself into a position where you know you're the only one that can do it? If so, you need to try to figure out how we can get out of that, how you can set this up so that somebody else can do it in your absence.
- [11:14]
A
Yeah, you know, I think that all those things. And for me, I. I kind of try and spread it out a little bit. I don't like everybody holding all the keys or somebody holding all the keys. So I'll try and spread it out. So there's a check and balance, you know, so that's why I've created the check and balance with, with Tabby and Faith on our team. Two different finance gals. You know, we have four different finance girls on the collab team, but I've given it to these two ladies. But I know, like, Faith reached out to me just today and talked about vacation she's coming up on and who she should hand off this certain client's payroll. And I told her, hey, I think you should reach out to Rachel. Rachel has experience in gusto. Like, I think that you should teach her. Now, normally I would say go to Tabby because she and Tabby are cross trained. Why not bring in another party within finance team? I think that the more that you can spread it out, the less likely you are to be dependent on one certain person. And if there are other people that have the skills or other people that you could elevate up and other people that you can trust, I think it's good to cross train with as many people as possible for the sake of. Nobody's the single key holder. Like, we've got the ability, we have a diverse team. There's a lot of trust on this team and a lot of accountability we can establish. And that way, if multiple of people go out on vacation at the same time, you're not back to square one of you having to do all of the thing on your vacation. Yes.
- [12:26]
C
And you know what else I like about this? What? You can work yourself out of responsibilities by doing this too.
- [12:34]
A
Yeah, tell me about that.
- [12:36]
C
Well, you hand it off to somebody else while you're gone. And they do such a great job, they can keep doing it when you get back.
- [12:43]
A
That, you know. So for me, that's a great example. So for me, I've gotten to a place, you know, we've got 22 people working at the collab team. And the primaries, like you, Taryn, carry accounts, you know, with a secondary that's tucked in underneath them so that really it's a primary and a secondary that's carrying all the main accounts. So I've worked myself to a place where I'm able to bounce into all the accounts and just sprinkle a little bit of magic when I'm there. But I'm not at all the meetings. I'm not involved in all the projects. The nice thing about that, what I found is on vacation, sometimes that complicates. Cause I'll try and do every other week with our biggest accounts. You know, I'll be on the calls every other week just to show my face, be able to give them some insights. I think it helps everybody feel good about paying a higher. A higher retainer. But then let's say on that every other week that maybe I'm on vacation that week. And so it actually turns into three weeks until I'm on the next one, or four weeks even, maybe until the next one. And then you start asking yourself, okay, so now that I haven't been doing it for three or four weeks, how critical is this thing that I thought I had to be doing? You know, because I. And that's honestly how I've worked out of a lot of roles within the collab team is once I've handed it off to somebody else, I've begun asking myself, okay, so where does the Vol. Where does the value proposition truly live? I mean, is this as valuable as I thought it was, or did it just make me feel important? Did it just make me feel valuable? Cause I think that all of us should be really working through. All of us have a limited amount of time, 24 hours every day. No matter who you are, no matter how much money you have, no matter how much power you have, we all have the same amount of hours in a day. And the question just becomes, how am I going to use that 24 hours? And I would say try and get the best ROI on your time. Like, where am I going to get the best bang for the buck? And a lot of times I think that we can do things because we assume that's what the boss should be doing. We presume that we have to do it the way that we've always done it instead of challenging that. And I think a lot of times the best way you can challenge that by going on vacation and removing yourself equation and asking yourself, is the business still going when I get back? And then really challenging it and say, so did I or do I still need to be doing all these things or is this an opportunity to like EOS talks about delegate and elevate. I could delegate stuff down and I could elevate up to taking on newer things, bigger things, broader things that are going to move the organization in a. In a bigger way.
- [14:45]
C
Yep. Yeah. I definitely worked myself out of a client on my honeymoon when I gave some duties to Ben while it's gone. Keith Yackey.
- [14:54]
A
Yeah.
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C
And he just took it from there and I came back. He's been doing it ever since. You know, it was a great moment. He even took what I did and up leveled it from there. Fresh eyes, fresh processes. Able to look at something I'd been doing for so long and really hone in on it and be like, oh, okay, we could do this. This instead of me, who'd been working on it for years, just kind of like managing or maintaining was also very helpful for. For him.
- [15:22]
A
I think that sometimes we assume everybody feels exactly like we do about the things that are under our hand, you know, so maybe there's this thing that you're doing that you just. You kind of hate it kind of sucks. You just really wish you didn't have to do it anymore, but you just assume everybody probably kind of hates this. Every. Nobody's going to want to do this because you hate it and you don't want to do it. But really that's not always the case. There's typically what in any organization, as you're raising people up, they're looking for. Your leaders are looking for the next opportunity to level up and taking on something that was once yours, that they can make theirs actually for them is an upgrade. They're taking on boss's work. They're taking on like the next leader up in the organization. Stuff like for you to Ben, Ben came in behind you. You've been with me a lot longer than Ben has. You know, Ben, I feel like within the tech side of the business, you and Ben are right up there. But I do feel like you're recognized as, you know, knowing more, being a little bit more out in front. You've just been doing it longer. So when you hand some down to Ben. To Ben, it's like, man, he's making. He's making ground as he takes those things on. And that gives Ben the opportunity to learn. And it puts him in the middle of things that he can get better at. And that raises his standard. I know at the collab team, we do everything by the toolbox, you know, so for us, the different tools we use and different expertise levels people bring and experience for how long they've been doing it, and then their excellence and how they show up is how they get raises. So anybody on the co lab team should be looking for opportunities to do other things, because that's actually how they're going to justify a raise next year when we talk about raises. So don't get stuck in your own head thinking everybody feels the same way about things as you feel about things, because it's just not true.
- [16:56]
C
Yeah. And I know not everybody listening to this operates the same as me. Like, I don't have a formal job description. I don't have a set of things I have to do. But I love taking a vacation because it gives me that opportunity to find what it is I'm doing that I think I have to be responsible for and letting somebody else do it while I'm gone, seeing how it goes and then give it up, Try taking on something new.
- [17:21]
A
I. I love, I love when you go out of town, Taryn. Cause I think that not only do you get time off, but it creates opportunities within the collab team for other people to uplevel into things that I think everybody at the co lab team, you know, you're. You're my right hand dude. You're in the middle of everything. Anything that I'm in the middle of, Taren's in the middle of, you know, so I think that you have a hand in everything. I think as you leave, it creates this vacuum that then there's an opportunity to say, okay, so what has Taryn been doing that we could then maybe give an opportunity to somebody else? And I love the accounts that you're on where you have a secondary under you because, you know, we've just kind of said it throughout the Colab team. When a primary leaves, the secondary becomes the primary. You know, so the, the secondary have to level up while you're out of town and maybe we'll throw another player on the field so that they're not there by themselves. But I think that it gives that secondary an opportunity to. To cut their teeth, you know, I mean, to get in there and try the things they've been watching. Taran do all this time to, you know, have good answers. And the thing I'll always tell secondaries going into it because everybody gets nervous about stepping into the primary seat, you know, and I'll just talk to him about, you don't have to have the answers for everything, Johnny, on the spot. If you don't know the answer, something say that's a really good question. Let me dig into that and get back to you. I'll have something back to you by X and give them a day and a time expectation. Nobody expects you to know everything, especially if you're filling in for somebody. They just want to know that it's going to be handled and they're going to get an answer back in a timely way. So I think don't be afraid to step into that new spot. And if you've been holding a spot, be generous with giving people opportunities. And the best way that you can be generous is be generous with yourself, go on vacation, enjoy your time, let somebody else handle your stuff, let them level up, give them the opportunity to cut their teeth because you might find when you come back it's actually going to open up more bandwidth with you because they actually enjoyed doing it.
- [18:56]
C
Mm, yeah, I agree. I mean it's a, it's a wonderful thing to get away, take a break. And I think whenever I see people do it, it makes us even better workers, better people. Yep. You know, it's easy to get burnt out, especially working with some, some high speed entrepreneurs, you know. Yes, it can get easy to get burnt out, but taking a break, taking a step back, refilling yourself up and leave a lot of room for more work to be done.
- [19:27]
A
And I would say this like, so the danger would be because maybe visionaries out there, you're already good at schlepping stuff onto other people. So maybe I'm talking to the wrong code. What I would say is this is be careful not to create a second catchall right behind you. Maybe you've been able to shuck out of some of the duties and it's fallen to your number two. Like in this scenario. Have I put too much on Terran? You know, I mean, is Taryn carrying too much? Cause Aaron has stepped out of things, handed it down to Taran. I've tried to really not do that. I've tried to pull other leaders in so Taren doesn't feel like the next choking point or the next catch all. But I would say probably a better thing for you to do when you go out of town is not just hand everything to your number two. But to ask yourself, who else, who else would be good at this? Or if you want to get a little brave, maybe ask another people, drop it into it. I, I love dropping into Boxer. Voxer is kind of our, our group chat, where we have a lot of conversations. Dropping into group chat and just being like, hey, I'm going out of town next week. I've got this thing coming up. Who would want to do something like this? Because somebody may raise their hand that you're like, oh, I didn't even realize those. They like those kind of duties, you know, like an example would be, I love Lindsay from Outsider, and so I can always pick on her. Outsider Coffee is one of our coffee clients. And they have done great things. Opened a couple of locations here in southern Oregon. They moved across the country, opened a few locations over in South Carolina. They're franchising. They opened their first franchise in Springfield, and they've got another three or four franchisees that are up on deck. And I love CJ and Lindsay, but I know that, that Lindsay a lot of times will just take stuff on because that's what she's supposed to do. And I know there's certain things she hates. And I know one of those things is the finance function. You know, like she, she does not love reconciling the books at every month. And so I said, hey, why don't you let us take that on? Why don't you just pass that over? Because I know Faith, she does it for me. I know she'd love to do it for you. So why don't we, why don't we just pass that off? And for Lindsay, it was like, dear God, can somebody take. Somebody's willing to do that. Somebody's willing to take on these things because she's always hated doing it, but that she'd be willing to pass it off to somebody that probably is going to do it better than her because they don't hate it and they would really excel at it and bring her back even a better version, you know, So I think that there are those opportunities of things that you're carrying that you just assume, or maybe you just hand it down to your number two instead of, no, no, no, let's open it up a little wider. Who else would like to learn this? Does this sound exciting to anybody? Would anybody want to try their hand at this? And then whoever raises their hand, really keep an eye on that person because they're elevating themselves. They're self. They're self acknowledging they want to grow and man, water that plant because that. That likely could be one of your next leaders.
- [21:54]
C
Yeah. And I think you even brought up a good point through there with the groups, you know, and that we'd call that your leadership team. Like, not just taking it to one person directly. Yeah. You might have your ops manager or your integrator or your, you know, somebody who you work with that helps get things done, but you've also got your leadership team. You've got those people in those roles for a reason. If, you know, if you need anything.
- [22:21]
A
Yeah, I do think as best as you can. And you'd be surprised how many people out there don't operate to job descriptions. But, man, figure out what your job descriptions are with your people. Figure out what the three to five key duties are, and try and help people stay in their lane. Try and help people live from their lane. And then it makes better sense when you hand off a task because you're like, this just fits in that bucket, you know, Because a lot of times if you're at the top of the food chain or you're. You're a leader in a. In a team, you can just make assumptions that are always not always true. Like, let's figure out whose bucket that should live in. Who should I be handing off to based on skill set, based on what they do, and then how can I empower them? So.
- [22:58]
C
Wow, Aaron, I think I hope a lot of people go on a vacation after this.
- [23:03]
A
Ooh, Taryn, me too. You know what I'm saying? Because oohs are definitely worthwhile to have.
- [23:09]
C
Yes. Yes, for sure. And we didn't get a chance to finish today, but I think next week we should follow up with hearing how Aaron makes a quesadilla with lettuce instead of tortillas.
- [23:21]
A
Yeah, I didn't say a quesadilla. I said a rat.
- [23:24]
C
You said tortillas.
- [23:26]
A
I said I don't use a tortilla. I use a piece of lettuce for my wrap. Anyway, so we can definitely dive into that next week. But you would be surprised, Taryn, because maybe I'll try and make a case together this weekend lettuce and see how it turns out.
- [23:37]
C
Yes, please do use the waffle iron.
- [23:40]
A
Tarant Turner. Always good talking with you Ops Experts. Thanks for tuning in. See you here on Ops Experts Club next week.
- [23:47]
B
Thank you for tuning in to the Ops Experts Club podcast. New episodes available every week on Spotify, itunes, and everywhere you listen to podcasts. If you're curious about how some of the biggest names in entrepreneurship have scaled their businesses to the next level. Check out some of our best content on this topic by going to foundationsatscale.com youm can find the link in our bio and do your part to improve. As an OPS expert.