Epstein Survivor Shares her Story!

Summary

The Parnas Perspective — "Epstein Survivor Shares Her Story!"

Podcast: The Parnas Perspective
Host: Aaron Parnas
Guest: Jess Michaels (Epstein survivor, Founder of Three Joann’s)
Date: August 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

This powerful interview centers on Jess Michaels’s account as a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein. Host Aaron Parnas provides Michaels with an open platform to tell her story in her own words and discuss her journey from trauma to advocacy. The episode exposes the deep, often hidden pain carried by survivors, the persistent societal disbelief, and the urgent need for education around trauma. Jess's testimony is raw, deeply personal, and serves as a call to action for both support systems and systemic change.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Weight of the Story Returning to the News (03:15–04:39)

• Jess describes the emotional turmoil from renewed media attention on Epstein.
• She emphasizes “strategic silencing and ignoring” by institutions, but also a sense of hope:

  “There’s this real extreme happening in my body of, of horrific dread and grief…And then the beauty of this moment of people finally listening…people now disclosing and sharing what’s happened in their lives.” (Jess, 03:39)

• The recurring reminder brings back trauma but also validates her years of healing.

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Jess’s Life Before and After the Assault (04:55–09:06)

• Jess recalls July 8th, 1991—her life as a successful young dancer and model, experiencing rising career opportunities.
• She was introduced to Epstein by her roommate Christine, then misled through “job interviews” involving massage.
• Jess’s vulnerability was manipulated by Epstein’s authority and the false normalcy cultivated by those around him.
• Description of the assault: Jess consciously omits explicit details but underscores the loss, the immediate self-blame, and her body's “freeze” response.

  “I remember laying there…and, and, and the words that kept coming to me were, you don’t want this to happen. Why can’t you just stop it? …I just froze.” (Jess, 09:06)

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The Freeze Response and Lingering Self-Blame (09:06–10:50)

• Jess discusses the misconception that freezing is consent, recognizing decades later that this is a survival response—not a sign of weakness or complicity.

  “When you freeze, you no longer have access to that part of the brain to make a decision.” (Jess, 09:06)

• Aaron validates this response, underscoring its prevalence among survivors.

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Aftermath: Shame, Silence, and Loss (11:22–12:54)

• Jess recalls the shame and dissociation after leaving Epstein’s apartment, unable to alert others or seek immediate help.
• Jess’s fear and humiliation force her to flee New York—the city of her dreams—within 24 hours.

  “I could no longer stay in New York City…within 24 hours of landing, I was…I moved out of New York.” (Jess, 12:54)

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The Hidden Recruiters and Institutional Betrayal (13:31–14:14)

• Learning years later that her roommate Christine was actively recruiting for Epstein shatters additional illusions.

  “There were recruiters before Ghislaine Maxwell. And that’s what I tried to tell the FBI.” (Jess, 14:07)

• Jess feels her warnings and testimony were disregarded by authorities.

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Encounters with Law Enforcement: Delays and Dismissals (14:24–16:07)

• Jess first considers reporting after Epstein becomes headline news (2018). A friend, a private investigator, cautions her against going to police.
• When Epstein’s arrest finally creates a safe window, Jess calls the FBI hotline—but is met with indifference.

  “But it was 30 years ago. What do you want us to do?” (Police/FBI response via Jess, 15:26)

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Decades of Silence and Lack of Awareness (16:28–18:40)

• Jess didn’t see news of Epstein’s earlier arrest and "sweetheart deal" in Florida—she lived in Palm Beach County but was preoccupied with life events.
• She internalizes myths about consent and rape for decades, viewing herself as an exception, dismissing the gravity of her trauma.

  “It didn’t equate to me that I was also a victim. Even when I called the lawyers…they were like ‘you realize you’re a victim, too, right?’” (Jess, 16:56)

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The Media’s Role: The Power of Naming (19:09–20:32)

• Aaron notes that unlike other crimes, the media repeatedly uses Epstein’s name, reinforcing his persona.
• Jess finds constant exposure to his name and especially his face profoundly distressing.

  “People often prefer the outlandish, the drama, the glamour of talking about the world of Jeffrey Epstein rather than…the pain…of institutions to Epstein survivors.” (Jess, 19:29)

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Shifting Societal Attitudes and Language Around Trauma (21:05–23:31)

• Jess critiques phrases like “trauma-informed,” arguing they lack resonance unless grounded in specifics.
• She shares how trauma manifests in her daily life—physiological symptoms, hypervigilance, and persistent anxiety.

  “My heart rate accelerates, my…stomach suddenly goes into a tight knot…that turns into insomnia…every single place I go, I’m looking for exits…” (Jess, 21:05)

• Jess comments on current political moves, such as Maxwell’s testimony before Congress, likening politicians’ susceptibility to Maxwell’s manipulation to the same tactics used on her and other victims.

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The Question of Ghislaine Maxwell’s Culpability (23:32–24:47)

• Jess is frustrated by attempts to paint Maxwell as a victim, insisting Maxwell’s equal or greater power relative to Epstein.

  “If we were to argue it, she had more power than…” (Jess, 24:32)

• Suggests that shifting blame away from Maxwell is another form of institutional denial.

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Jess Michaels Today: Survivor, Advocate, and Founder (24:58–29:30)

• Jess describes her mission:
  • “To lift the burden of shame from survivors”
  • To educate those surrounding survivors so they can respond supportively.
• She underscores the lasting isolation survivors feel—safety inside therapy rooms, but tremendous loneliness outside them.

  “As soon as I walk out that door past these four walls, I feel like I’m walking around alone and really isolated…” (Jess, 27:17)

• Jess calls for sex education in schools to equip children with the language needed to recognize and report abuse.

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Resources and Concrete Help for Survivors (27:57–29:30)

• Jess provides actionable resources for survivors:
  • ValorUS: Comprehensive directory of state-specific support resources (https://www.valor.us)
  • Project Callisto / Callisto Vault: Secure, encrypted online reporting for college students, enabling pattern identification and advocate support (https://projectcallisto.org)

  “PTSD is not the event. Trauma is not the event. It’s the absence of an empathetic witness.” (Jess, 28:02)

• Jess encourages disclosure to trusted individuals and utilizing available survivor networks.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On institutional failure:
  “I felt like nobody was listening to me at all.” (Jess, 14:14)

• On the myth of victim responsibility:
  “I didn’t understand that when you freeze, you no longer have access to that part of the brain to make a decision.” (Jess, 09:06)

• On the culture of disbelief:
  “We don’t believe women have pain…We just normalized the situation as it just happened with some wealthy white guy in Palm Beach or in New York.” (Aaron, 20:32)

• On advocacy and support:
  “It doesn’t matter when it happened—the minute you start sharing it…you are my empathetic witness. And right now how this affects me is greatly determined on how you respond.” (Jess, 28:02)

• On Maxwell’s false victimhood:
  “There was no power imbalance…She actually probably brought in more…powerful connections and status than he even had.” (Jess, 24:32)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:39] Jess on the emotional impact of renewed media attention
• [04:55] Jess recounts the days leading up to and after the assault
• [09:06] Details on the assault, freeze response, and aftermath
• [12:54] Leaving New York, immediate impacts
• [13:31] Discovery of recruiting network and institutional betrayal
• [14:24] First engagement with FBI and law enforcement
• [16:56] On not seeing herself as a victim
• [19:29] Media’s focus on Epstein’s name and persona
• [21:05] The reality of living with trauma
• [23:32] On Ghislaine Maxwell and public manipulation
• [24:58] Jess describes her mission and advocacy
• [27:57] Resources for survivors

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Conclusion

This episode stands as a moving, clear-eyed examination of surviving trauma, institutional neglect, and the long path to reclaiming agency. Jess Michaels’s openness offers validation and guidance for other survivors, while the discussion illuminates critical gaps in public understanding of trauma and justice. Listeners are left with not only Jess's story, but also the resources and encouragement to take action—whether for themselves or as better allies to survivors.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host Aaron]

years ago, Jess Michaels was raped by Jeffrey Epstein. She was 22 years old. The day after she went to work at the front desk of a dance studio in New York City because that's what her scholarship required. A friend named Joanne looked at her face and asked if she was okay three times. Jess didn't answer. Joanne pulled her into an office and Jess broke down and told her a fraction, just a fraction of what just happened. Joanne said, we need to go to the police. And Jess remembers thinking, who would believe a 22 year old dancer over a wealthy Wall street man with his own private plane? She remembers thinking something else. Something crueler. Something she carried for almost 30 years. I didn't run, I didn't scream. I didn't fight him off. I walked past the same doorman who let me up like nothing had happened. No one will believe me, she thought. In 1991, the legal definition of rape hinged on how hard you fought back. We only talked about fight or flight. Nobody talked about the word freeze. Nobody explained that freezing is one of those common human responses to sexual assault. That a body can shut down entirely. That silence and stillness are not consent. They're survival. So Jess didn't believe herself. Took her almost three decades to understand that what happened to her was never her fault. If you're watching this and some part of you just recognized yourself, if you didn't scream, didn't fight, didn't run, if you just froze, I want you to hear this before we go any further. It was never your fault. To freeze is not to consent. Tonight I'm sitting down with Jess Michaels. She is going to tell you what happened in her own words, in full, without rushing past it. Make sure to hit that subscribe button as we're on the road to a million subscribers. My conversation with Jess Today I am

[Interviewer Aaron]

truly honored to be joined by Jess Michaels, who is a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein's horrific crimes, who is the founder of three joann's. Jess, thank you so much for joining me today.

[Jess Michaels]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really honored to be here with you.

[Podcast Host Aaron]

I want to talk about your story

[Interviewer Aaron]

and I want to give you this platform to share your story so that other people can hear it and maybe speak up on their own. And I do want to start off by just talking about the present day. What are you feeling today with everything in the news, everything drawn up again after years of real silence about the story?

[Jess Michaels]

Yeah, it's almost worse than silence. It's very strategic silencing and ignoring. And that is part of the problem. And also the beauty of this moment is that people are finally listening. So there's this real extreme happening in my body of, of horrific dread and grief, because that's the other thing that comes up that people don't talk about is how much grief of the reminder, the constant reminder of what I lost. And then the beauty of this moment of people finally listening and recognizing, oh, this is what I've been healing for and where I've been trying to find language for, this is where people are now disclosing and sharing what's happened in their lives. And so I think there's a. It's this horrific, horrific moment and beautiful at the same time.

[Podcast Host Aaron]

Yeah, I can only imagine.

[Interviewer Aaron]

I do want to take you back to the early 90s. Could you just walk me through your story and tell those who may have never heard of you or the pain that you underwent just a little bit more about what actually happened.

[Jess Michaels]

Yeah. I always like to start with July 8th because that feels so significant to me of who I was on that date. And before, I had been a working professional dancer for a year and a half. So working, I had contracts. I was traveling the world. I worked in Tokyo. I was modeling. I was making money at my chosen career. I had great relationships, friends, absolutely. My Star as a. As a dancer and a model and a performer was rising. I was on the rise. I wasn't aspiring. I wasn't hopeful. I was working. And the significance of July 8th was that I was actually sitting there in my Brooklyn apartment, and I was reading my name on my paycheck for doing an Aretha Franklin job. And that just felt so incredible. The. The week before that, my roommate. Because this also felt like a wonderful piece of my life coming together, my roommate. Let me take you back. So I just come back from Tokyo in May, and my roommate at the time, Christine, tells me she's been working for several months with this wealthy Wall street guy. She's. He's. He's training her to do massage. She's really happy and ecstatic. She's making a ton of money. It sounds like a perfect opportunity. So I'm excited. And I. I am never offered an opportunity. Like, I'm never. And. And it was, like, for two months, I just keep hearing about Jeffrey, Jeffrey, Jeffrey everywhere. And it gets to be the week before. And she said, you know, I. I actually got a dance contract, and Jeffrey is looking for some backup masseuses. And that was exciting for me as a professional dancer. Wonderful opportunity. So I was excited because I had been jealous of her, and she sets it up that I can meet him. So I meet him at his office for an interview first, and then he. He. He basically acts as if I may not get this job. It kind of felt like the old con man thing of, like, the takeaway. Oh, this, Like. Like the old car salesman. Like, this car might not be right for you type of feeling. And gives me a book to study. So I go get a notebook. As soon as I leave the office, I start studying. Christine comes home that night and says, he, like, he liked you.

[Interviewer Aaron]

And what book is he. Did he give you to study?

[Jess Michaels]

It's the Book of Massage. It was an old massage book, and he had it. This. This is the part I. He had a dozen of them, Aaron, in that desk. I wasn't the only person in 1991 that he was doing this to, right? Or before then. So I go to his. The address I'm given to this penthouse that is a sunken living room. He comes out in his robe, and he. He drops his robe, and he says, and professional dancers are comfortable with nudity. And that. That moment stuck to me. I had someone ask me, when is the moment when your first red flag kind of came up? And it was that moment. And what I felt like was, Jeffrey from the first Interview to this next trial massage. Part of the interview was setting me up to be, to not know what I was doing and that he was the authority, he was the one that was going to teach me from the get go. And I was not expecting there to be nudity. And I, I will, I, I will, I will tell you that at the time I was very much of a, a bit of a prude too. Like they had asked me to, to wear a thong in the Aretha Franklin video that I did. And I, I said no because I said I'm not going to do any work that my grandma can't see me do.

[Interviewer Aaron]

Right.

[Jess Michaels]

So that was really jarring for me to have. But he was like, it's just professional, not a big deal. And so I played it off because I wanted the job. I'm not going to go into the details of the assault. I don't, in fact, there's one place that I tell the details. I had to write it out. I actually, there's a chapter in Lucia Osborne Crowley's book the Lasting Harm, which is witnessing the, the Glenn Maxwell trial. And that's the, as far as I know, the only book on the whole trial and my story isn't there. He raped me. I heard him pull $, you know, hundred dollar bills out of the robe and he threw them on the table. I was devastated. I, I remember laying there, Aaron, and in, as I'm fogging out like it's, it's happening and I can feel myself sinking in inside. And I, and, and the words that kept coming to me were, you don't want this to happen. Why can't you just stop it? Why can't, why can't you just get out? Like, why can't you stop it? I didn't, so I didn't scream, I didn't run, I didn't fight him at all. I just froze. Which is also where I think a lot of self blame comes in because we think as an adult at 22, I should be able to do that. I should be able to protect myself. I should be able to make a different decision. And I didn't understand that when you freeze, you no longer have access to that part of the brain to make a decision.

[Interviewer Aaron]

I will say this, that story is not uncommon. I mean, young women all the time in situations like that experience almost exactly what you experienced. So I don't want you to blame yourself ever for that because it's a natural reaction that the body has. I guess he takes out the money, throws the money on the table. It's $200. You leave. How are you feeling walking out of the building that day?

[Jess Michaels]

Yeah, it. I. I distinctly remember walking past that doorman that had let me up and not being able to say anything, noting that everything had just changed, that I. That I'd somehow just lost everything. And I remember walking past him and thinking, and he can't even see it. He can't even see it, and I can't tell him. And I got on the subway going the wrong way. So there's a lot of brain confusion that's happening. And I stayed pretty catatonic throughout the night and into the next day.

[Interviewer Aaron]

Did you ever speak to your roommate about what happened?

[Jess Michaels]

That's a great question. And I don't remember if I answered it on Katie's interview. So. The way it works in New York when you're a performer is you're often subletting in different apartments. So that's. I was subletting in her apartment, and she had left for that dance job when I had met him. And then I left on a job. I didn't see her again before I left for another job. And then when I came back, I could no longer stay in New York City. Like, I. I was afraid to be in New York anymore. Something that I had worked years to get to, that I loved. I loved New York City. It was. It was my dream to be there. And I was within 24 hours of landing. I was. I moved out of New York.

[Interviewer Aaron]

And that was your only interaction with him?

[Jess Michaels]

And that was my only interaction with him. And that was my only interaction with her. And I didn't. I was so embarrassed and humiliated. I. I thought she couldn't possibly have known, and so I must be the only one. So I was really embarrassed. She was happy with him. She. You know, I didn't think she'd believe me either. You know, I didn't. I didn't think she'd believe me either. And so I only started to note over the years, I was like, wait. She never reached back out to me either, to see what happened.

[Interviewer Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jess Michaels]

It didn't occur to me that, you know, she hadn't reached out to me. And then I would find out. Aaron, this is the part. And this is why I called the FBI in the first place. I would find out that she stayed working for him at the very latest, till 1998, and that the room, the friend, the one mutual friend that we had that continued, that was a roommate of his after me. She would tell me later on when I shared with her what happened? She said, yeah, she tried to get me to go to.

[Interviewer Aaron]

Oh, wow.

[Jess Michaels]

So she was recruiting. There were recruiters before Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Podcast Host Aaron]

Okay.

[Jess Michaels]

And that's, that was what I tried to tell the FBI. And I felt like nobody was listening to me at all.

[Interviewer Aaron]

When did you talk to the FBI? What year approximately?

[Jess Michaels]

So I saw faced in the. Julie K. Brown's article in December of 2018. It was like right after Thanksgiving. I told my therapist about it. And then I have a dear friend who happens to be a private investigator. And I told her, I sent the article and I said, this man raped me when I was living in New York as a dancer. And I said, should I go to the police? Because all these girls have come forward. They were so brave. And she said, you do not want to go to the police right now. I know exactly who he is and you don't want to go. And so it wasn't until he was arrested that I felt safe enough to say something. And then I, then he, I didn't right away, like I was still grappling with it and I, and I was working. So I was like, okay, after I finish this, this, this five week speaking tour with the nonprofit I was working with, I was like, okay, I'll call them then. And she said, that's not a big deal. This is going to be going on for years. And so then I, then he's dead. So I was devastated by the lack of any place. I didn't feel like I had any place in the story. I didn't have any place to say anything. And so it wasn't until the FBI kept asking us for, to come forward with our stories that I called in September. It was just a hotline person that answered the phone. And then a couple days later there was a detective with, I think it was New York Police Department, like sex trafficking worked with the FBI. They reached out and said, well, we have to call everyone that that has called. But. But it was 30 years ago. What do you want us to do?

[Podcast Host Aaron]

Well, I guess I want to talk

[Interviewer Aaron]

about the intermediary period between the early 90s and his ultimate arrest in the late in 2017, 2018 time. Because there was a time in early, in the early mid 2000s where he was arrested initially and he got that sweetheart deal in Florida that not really anyone talks about anymore.

[Jess Michaels]

Yep.

[Interviewer Aaron]

Did you ever feel like you could speak up during that time?

[Jess Michaels]

No, I never saw the news. I didn't see his face before then, so I didn't know it was happening. So it Just, it. It missed my radar. I even lived in the area. Like, I lived in Palm Beach County. I owned a business in. In Palm Beach County. And because my family is around Florida, I.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

It.

[Jess Michaels]

At the time I went back, I was like, why didn't I see this? I was preparing for a wedding. So I was planning a wedding. I was really focused on that. I was running a business. It just. It escaped me. We also weren't at the MeToo movement. That's not, you know, for. For people to say, why didn't you report sooner? At no time did my understanding of even what happened, like, get past what my original understanding of the law was, was I didn't resist. And so it wasn't rape. So it didn't equate to me that something had happened. It didn't equate to me that I was also a victim. Even when I called the lawyers initially to try, I just wanted to tell them about Christine. I read all these articles about survivors, you know, having lawyers after he was dead, and I was like, maybe if I just tell these lawyers about Christine, they can find her and it will help their cases. And I actually had a lawyer like, you realize you're a victim, too, right? And I. It's like I. It's like I couldn't sit in that place right away. Like, it took a really long time for me to even say, oh, wait, that's. That was me, too. You know, I. I saw it in the article, and it released the shame. But for me to act, you know, that's. That was the only time I had to hear about these other girls, for me to believe that I deserved to even be considered a victim of this man.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Mint Mobile Announcer]

And.

[Interviewer Aaron]

And you are a victim. You are. And it's. And. And I'm just so grateful that you're sharing your story, because I know it's going to help so many people around the country. I. I do want to ask you about something that not really many people talk about in crime situations and really heinous murders, things like that. You rarely say the person's name. You don't say Bryan Coburger. You say defendant.

[Jess Michaels]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Aaron]

This case, everyone says his name.

[Jess Michaels]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Aaron]

How do you feel when you hear his name every day now in the news versus just this horrific monster or this defendant tied to Trump? They say his name over and over again, over and over again.

[Jess Michaels]

They show his face over and over again. Everybody giving a hot take about this person that personally harmed me. So it feels personal every time I see his name and face, but mostly his Face, like, his face is jarring to me. To see it, hearing his name and people saying it all the time and only focusing on him. This is the other reason I put his name in my bio. It was like, I'm an Epstein survivor. Is like, no, I'm the survivor of this man. And it's a different take. I'm trying to get people to look at this differently, but people often prefer the outlandish, the drama, the glamour of talking about the world of Jeffrey Epstein rather than the pain and the torture and the. The betrayal of institutions to Epstein survivors.

[Interviewer Aaron]

I think something that. When I was listening to your interview with Katie, that really struck me. You said the line, we don't believe women have pain. Right. For years, we did not believe. Or the victims. We did not believe that there could be victims. We just normalized the situation as it just happened with some wealthy white guy in Palm beach or in New York.

[Jess Michaels]

Yep.

[Interviewer Aaron]

Now we do believe women have pain. But it's. I don't know. I mean, for me, society seems to be shifting a little bit back into the old mentality these days.

[Jess Michaels]

Yeah. So I even hate the term, just like trauma informed. I think trauma informed is really an important aspect of what we have to shift into as far as language goes and understanding. But I also think that when we say trauma, it's this kind of ethereal word that people can't identify as. What does that exactly mean? And so that's why one of my goals as an advocate is how do I define that in a way that makes sense for people? That narrows it down to me saying, my heart rate accelerates, my. I can't breathe. My stomach suddenly goes into a tight knot. My whole body tightens and becomes like a rock. My shoulders clench, my head. The back of my head feels like somebody hit it with a bat. Then that goes on, and it turns into insomnia. It turns into me walking into every single place I go and looking for exits and windows. It's a clear experience within my body. And I feel like that's what people don't talk about. They just say trauma. And that doesn't bring a lot of understanding of what my experience, what any. Every survivor's experience is. And. And the understanding of how sitting in that level of. Of a lack of safety makes that part of our nervous nervous system, the sympathetic nervous system overcompensate and constantly stay on. So we are hypervigilant every single moment of the day. And now that's just a normal life, Aaron. That's just a normal life. All right, Now I pick up my phone and I see his can I swear? Yes, I see his fucking face everywhere. Everywhere. And then I have people sending me. Sending me articles about him. And I have to be honest, people want me to dissect the whole conspiracy theories, and they want my opinions about it. I actually don't go deep into it because it's really. It's too personal. But can I say two things that I think are really important in this moment? There's a House committee, I guess, that are deciding on meeting with Glenn Maxwell.

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Right.

[Jess Michaels]

Congratulations. They have fallen for the exact same manipulation and coercion tactics that teenage girls did and young women. The fact that she has not presented demands, they are falling for the same manipulative tactics and coercion skills master for skills that teenage girls and young girls did. So that's one thing I also keep hearing. I think this is the part that just is really jarring, is that people are pointing to Ghislaine Maxwell as a victim. And you and I both know this. Why is she not a victim, Aaron? Do you know? Like. Like she's not a victim. There's no power imbalance. There was no power imbalance with her relationship with Jeffrey. There was no power imbalance. She actually probably brought in more. More powerful connections and. And status than he even had. So if we were to argue it, she had more power than.

[Interviewer Aaron]

You're right. If you listen to the testimony of Annie Farmer or any of the other victims who were directly impacted by Maxwell herself.

[Jess Michaels]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Aaron]

And the public would see that. Just read the transcripts that are publicly available.

[Podcast Host Aaron]

Jess, I want to ask you a question.

[Interviewer Aaron]

Not about the past, but about the present.

[Jess Michaels]

Yeah.

[Interviewer Aaron]

Who is Jess Michaels today?

[Jess Michaels]

Thank you for asking. I have one mission in life, and that is what my company is founded on. It's three, Joanne. It's a public benefit corporation, and it is to lift the burden of shame from survivors and educate the people surrounding a survivor to know what to do when someone says, me too. Because where there's a huge gap right now in support is all the people around us. I heard support from people initially when I told them, and then no one knows what to do. And so I remember distinctly sitting in my therapist's office and I said, I can sit here and I can talk to you about it in here, but as soon as I walk out that door past these four walls, I feel like I'm walking around alone and really isolated because there's no one outside of these four walls that can sit and hold space for me at all with this because it's such an uncomfortable topic. And so I believe we need sex education in schools so kids have language so that we are actually giving them language when something happens. If we take away language for kids to understand how to get help, we're part of the problem. And so. And I believe that we teach that through healthy relationships. I'm actually working with a couple of nonprofits that are. That I advocate with. And that reminds me, Aaron, if you don't mind, I'd like to say this because one of the things we're seeing in the comments is disclosures from people, people feeling safe enough to say something. And I would be remiss as an advocate if I also didn't even give resources. And I, and I have to say I've tried to go into the comments everywhere and just either like, like a comment or, or. Or respond to what saying, I see you and I, I can't do that for everybody. But I'm reading them. But I'm reading them. I mean, I don't know if you've had a chance to read them. And so there's a couple of resources I just want to be able to tell people to go look for. So there is an organization called Valor. It's Valor Us. And they have a, A tab that says get help. And if you go to that tab and you, you click on your state, it will give you all of the resources in your state, local resources that, interestingly enough, are also getting their funding cut. It cut. But just try to find any resources there because it doesn't matter when it happened the minute you start sharing it. So that's the other thing is everybody thinks, oh, well, it was so long ago. What do you do it? PTSD is not the event. Trauma is not the event. It's the absence of an empathetic witness. And so if I share this with you right now, Erin, you are my empathetic witness. And right now how this affects me is greatly determined on how you respond.

[Shopify Customer (Shannon Maldonado)]

Right.

[Jess Michaels]

So I highly recommend talking to three people that you know, that you're. That you trust and also going to those finding a resource in your area. The second resource, I want to tell everybody that's really, really. And especially now that the T app has, has been hacked and all that's happened with the tapp. So there's an organization called Callisto. It's Project Callisto.org and under Services, they have what's called Callisto Vault. This is available to college students. Did you know that college offenders offend an average of six times in their college career. An average average of six times. So Callisto is a, like, revolutionary technology. It's, it's encrypted. A survivor can put in their information, and it's very safe. They can put in the identifying information about the person that harmed them. And if by chance there are two people that were harmed by the same person, those people are. Those two survivors are connected. To an advocate, it's very safe. It's not about whether something's legal or not. This is also something that's really important for me to say. Harm is not determined by what is in the law, how the, how the law breaks it down. Something can be really, really horrible. And it doesn't fall within those lines. That doesn't determine harm. It doesn't determine the level of the injury.

[Interviewer Aaron]

Jess, I just want to say thank you on behalf of everyone watching this. Thank you for sharing your story, for being brave. And I really hope that your story empowers others to share their stories. And I hope that people hear your story not for the person that caused the trauma, but rather the person that you have become in fighting for others and fighting to get it out. Because that, that is the story, not the person. So thank you.

[Jess Michaels]

Thank you so much. Thank you, Aaron.

[Podcast Host Aaron]

Hey folks, thanks so much for watching. Feel free to add this podcast on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you watch for the latest breaking news and daily hits throughout the day. Make sure to follow. Subscribe.

[Interviewer Aaron]

See you soon for more.