Hour 2: Jesse Dougherty, NOTUS

Summary

The Paul Finebaum Show – Hour 2: Jesse Dougherty, NOTUS

Date: August 10, 2026
Host: Paul Finebaum (ESPN, College Football)
Main Guest: Jesse Dougherty (NOTUS)
Main Theme: SEC college football updates, listener calls, and an in-depth breakdown of the stalled Protect College Sports Senate bill with Jesse Dougherty.

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Episode Overview

This episode features classic Paul Finebaum: listener call-ins full of passion for college football, direct talk about notable teams and storylines (including Lane Kiffin, Ole Miss, and Tennessee), and a substantial segment dissecting the U.S. Senate’s failure to advance the Protect College Sports bill before recess. Jesse Dougherty joins to provide insider reporting and context on the legislative deadlock, which could shape the future of college sports governance and athlete compensation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Caller Commentary: SEC, Big Ten, and Team Storylines

Timestamps: 00:44–09:14

• Ole Miss Hype

  • A caller predicts Ole Miss will break through, win the SEC, and take the national championship, putting “the Big Ten back in their place.”
  • Finebaum: “I think a lot of people really do feel Ole Miss has the best quarterback in the SEC, and maybe the best team.” (01:55)

• SEC–Big Ten Rivalry:

  • Persistent sense of pride and competition between SEC and Big Ten fans.

• Lane Kiffin Drama:

  • Continued listener fascination and frustration with Kiffin’s departure from Ole Miss to LSU. Viewers debate where the blame lies: Kiffin or Ole Miss’s administration?

• Tennessee & Family Ties:

  • Peyton Manning’s loyalty is discussed, focusing on how comments about his nephew (Texas QB Arch Manning) should be taken with caution:
    • Finebaum: “When it comes to family, Rhonda, I never pay too much attention to what people say. … You have to take with a grain of salt.” (04:45)

• Calls from Clemson, Mississippi State & More:

  • Colorful tales about college football rivalries, lost Georgia flags, and quirky urinal decorations—reflecting the colorful culture of SEC football fandom.
  • Mississippi State fans raise concerns about being overlooked.
    • Finebaum: “…when you’re at the bottom of the league, you don’t get talked about nearly as much as you do when you were at the top.” (08:28)

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2. Deep Dive: Lane Kiffin’s Ole Miss Exit

Timestamps: 10:13–13:39

• Who’s at fault, Kiffin or Ole Miss?
  • Lane Kiffin wanted to coach Ole Miss in the playoffs after taking LSU job; Ole Miss administration declined to let him stay.
  • Other coaches (e.g., Kirby Smart, Jeremy Pruitt) allowed to finish seasons in different circumstances.
  • Finebaum: “They just didn’t trust him to be around, so they told him to hit the road. … He knew the second he went to them and said, ‘I’m going to take the LSU job,’ that he was not going to be allowed to coach.” (11:15)

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3. Tennessee Pride and Perceptions

Timestamps: 13:39–18:19

• Tennessee's Place in College Sports:

  • Caller laments Tennessee football’s lack of recent respect and national relevance.
  • Finebaum: “When you're not at the center of attention in the college football world, people take you for granted. ... Tennessee hasn't won a national championship since '98.” (16:33)

• Objectivity on the Job:

  • Finebaum discusses balancing alma mater pride with professional neutrality as a broadcaster:
    • “There's something about where you went to school that you're never going to lose…But…you have to do it [the job] the same way whether you want to or not.” (15:01)

• Caller Highlights Tennessee's Emerging Stars and Athletic Department:

  • Optimism for both football and basketball, belief in resources and “heart.”

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4. NCAA & Coaching Rehabilitation

Timestamps: 18:19–19:43

• Coach Rehabilitation Schools:
  • The role of programs like Nick Saban’s Alabama as “rehab” for coaches (e.g., Lane Kiffin).
• Signetti’s Ranking:
  • Brief banter on why the caller’s favorite coach isn’t rated higher by Finebaum.
  • “He went to this Nick Saban school of rehab. ... That kind of rehab.” (18:42)

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5. Feature Interview: Jesse Dougherty on the Protect College Sports Bill

Timestamps: 22:19–36:29

Background & What Happened (Friday Night Senate Debacle)

• Summary:

  • The College Sports bill, poised for a Senate vote, fell apart due to mounting opposition from player unions, the Congressional Black Caucus, and certain key senators (Booker, Murphy). Unanimous consent is required for the “global package” of bills. As few as two senators can stall the process, and that’s exactly what happened.

• Jesse Dougherty:

  • “So you know, what I reported Saturday in the aftermath... is that we know of at least two Democrats, Cory Booker and Chris Murphy, who stood in the way of that in that hotline close to midnight.” (24:24)
  • “It's kind of like a game of chicken ... if they can't get that 100% buy-in... then this thing gets kicked to September. And that's what we ultimately saw happen.” (25:05)

Why It Stalled

• Opposition Coalitions:

  • Opposition mounted not just along party lines—Democratic player unions and advocacy groups, but also Republican senators like John Kennedy (LA) and Tommy Tuberville (AL) voiced issues. Tuberville wanted a “skinnier bill” targeting transfer eligibility, not the whole mishmash.
  • LGBTQ+ athlete participation and state law preemption added more fuel.

• Momentum Backfires:

  • Legislators touting “80 votes in the bag” and imminent passage (Eric Schmidt, Ted Cruz) actually galvanized opponents who sprang into action.
  • “That is what perks the interest of the Cory Bookers of the world, … who I think have been really involved in college sports in the past that maybe weren't… super, super engaged, at least out in the open, of pushing against this.” (26:20)

• Short Timeline Ahead:

  • The five-week recess compresses any chance for reconsideration. “If the Republicans lose their control of the House, then their chances of getting this college bill through ... that chance lessens, too. ... The window is really shrinking.” (27:10)

Next Steps & Prognosis

• Horse-Trading Continues:

  • “Negotiations for this are not done ... I don't necessarily know if the exact 171 pages... would be the bill that ultimately reaches the floor.” (31:14)
  • “Opposition victory is galvanizing—they smell blood... That's a big deal.” (32:48)

• Attorney Generals Enter the Fray:

  • Additional legal objections from state attorney generals, especially on transgender eligibility and state-federal law preemption, further complicate the prospects.

• Notable Quote:

  • “When you ask Congress for help, you invite a lot of cooks, you invite a lot of politics in.” (Jesse Dougherty recounting Sen. John Kennedy's 2023 warning, 29:21)

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6. Reflections & Listener Reactions

Timestamps: 38:26–41:45

• Paul’s Reporting Source:

  • Finebaum recounts gathering insights directly from sources including Sen. Tuberville and the Alabama Attorney General while speaking at the Business Council of Alabama.

• Cynicism Toward Congress:

  • Callers and Finebaum share skepticism about Congressional ability to pass college sports reform amidst broader legislative ineffectiveness.

• Notable Quote:

  • “We've just been waiting for the new and inventive way that Congress was going to screw this up.” (40:08)
  • “Some of these senators—Cruz and Schmidt—overshot the runway a little bit on talking about how quickly it was going to be signed.” (40:28)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Lane Kiffin leaving Ole Miss:

  • “He knew the second he went to them and said, ‘I’m going to take the LSU job,’ that he was not going to be allowed to coach. … It’s not like that relationship can be salvaged.” – Paul Finebaum (11:15)

• On SEC fan passion:

  • “This urinal back here, Paul, is like a tourist attraction. The people around this neighborhood, they love this thing.” – Jay, caller from Clemson (06:28)

• On defending Tennessee pride:

  • “I feel like people have forgotten who we are. … Tennessee is nothing to be messed with. … We're a powerhouse.” – Nick, caller from Tennessee (16:13)

• On the bill's legislative hurdles:

  • “If they can't get that 100% buy-in … then this thing gets kicked to September. And that's what we ultimately saw happen.” – Jesse Dougherty (25:05)
  • “When you ask Congress for help, you invite a lot of cooks, you invite a lot of politics in.” – Sen. John Kennedy via Jesse Dougherty (29:21)

• On Congressional skepticism:

  • “We've just been waiting for the new and inventive way that Congress was going to screw this up.” – Chris, caller (40:08)

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Important Segments by Timestamp

• Caller banter and rivalry stories: 00:44–09:14
• Lane Kiffin departure analysis: 10:13–13:39
• Tennessee debate and alma mater objectivity: 13:39–18:19
• Bill breakdown with Jesse Dougherty: 22:19–36:29
• Business Council of Alabama/Insider reporting: 38:26–41:45

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Tone and Style

• Paul Finebaum: Approachable, humorous, candid, sometimes self-deprecating, with a knack for cutting through spin.
• Listeners: A mix of die-hard fans, humorous storytellers, and passionate advocates for their teams.
• Jesse Dougherty: Informed, analytical, clear, detail-oriented.

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Summary for New Listeners

If you missed this episode, you’ll get up-to-date on SEC drama, a primer on the quirks of college sports fandom, and an expert’s breakdown of why federal college sports reform is still stuck in the political mud—despite months of effort. You’ll also hear how legislative optimism can turn into last-minute chaos, and why the dogs (and lawmakers) aren’t done barking about college football anytime soon.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Paul Feinbaum]

Welcome back. Great to have all of you with us.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Yes, you got that right. Let's check out Travis in Mobile, Alabama. Hello, Travis.

[Caller]

How are you doing?

[Paul Feinbaum]

We're doing great, Travis.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Travis, I tell you what. I know you're near Mobile Bay, but for whatever reason, it sounded like maybe

[Caller]

you were at the bottom of the bay.

Let me see if we can get

[Paul Feinbaum]

you back on here. Check in with Luke in Texas. Luke, go right ahead.

[Caller]

Hey, Luke.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Luke, go right ahead.

[Caller]

Oh, hey, Paul. How you doing today?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Great.

[Caller]

I just wanted to talk about the SEC and Big Ten.

Obviously have had a pretty big rivalry the past few years, but I just

want to get out here and talk about how I think Ole Miss is going to be one to break the streak.

Not only win the sec, but win

the national championship and show the Big Ten get right back in the spot in second place to us.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Thanks, Luke. Listen, it's certainly a possibility. I think a lot of people really

[Caller]

do feel Ole Miss has the best

[Paul Feinbaum]

quarterback in the SEC and maybe the best team. There's a lot of debate about that. But that's we have a chance to

[Caller]

prove it pretty quickly.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Thanks for the call. Sooner in Texas is up next. Hey, sooner, Boomer, sooner.

[Caller]

Paul, how you doing, buddy?

[Paul Feinbaum]

We are doing great.

[Caller]

Hey, are you going to be in Baton Rouge for the first weekend?

[Paul Feinbaum]

It's possible. We have not made an official. I mean, I've heard yes, I've heard no. So the answer is I don't know.

[Caller]

Hey, my wife's going to be doing some work there at LSU that week, Friday and Saturday. What's the chance that you and I get a couple of bottles of tequila and watch that OU game Friday night together?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Pretty good. I think we must certainly do it. I know you have good taste in alcohol based on the last time I saw you.

[Caller]

Hey, my tequila bar comes in tomorrow. We bought a new house in Fort Worth and I've got a big display case coming into one of our rooms. I'll make a big tequila room sipping room out of it.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Well, once we get settled on exactly what will happen, I'll let you know. And we will hopefully make a plan of that.

[Caller]

Any chance I can get a number to your guys so that we can communicate offline?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Sure. I'll put you back on hold and we will be in touch sooner. Let's. Let's check in next with Jim, who is in Virginia. Hey, Jim. Hey, Jim. I don't know what's going on here today, but we are having a problem. We're having a problem. Let me say this one more time. And the whole goal here is for people to watch and listen. When you're on hold, though, If we go to you, we realize you're probably watching and not listening. Rhonda is up next. Hey, Rhonda.

[Caller]

Hey, Paul. Thank you for taking my call today. I just wanted to touch real quick on the Lane Kiffin interview tonight. I don't know if I can watch that or not. I mean, I don't want to hate the guy and I don't want to lock him either. I don't know. I wanted to ask about Texas. We are all Tennessee. We are all sec. There was a book written, primed and ready, written about Peyton Manning. And it has been talked about here lately that Texas little arch is primed and ready. What do you say?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Yeah, I mean, I saw that. But when it comes to family, Rhonda, I never pay too much attention to what people say. I think everyone knows where Peyton Manning's real loyalties lie. And whatever he says about his nephew, I think you have to take with a grain of salt. Thank you very, very much. Appreciate it. Let me check in next with. Was it Jay? Yeah, Jay. Was we talking to him now? I've lost track of who's on, who's not. Okay, Jay, go right ahead.

[Caller]

You got, you.

You got.

Good afternoon, Paul, from an ornery Clemson heaven. I hadn't talked to you in about seven days because I've been on. I worked seven days straight at this whole resort down here in Clemson Heaven, taking care of all the Clemson people. Fall. Okay, but. So I haven't been able to call in since our last two phone calls, but evidently these. These Clemson fellows, they have heard our calls. So I had some of them stop me on the golf. Me and the wife on the golf cart the other day, and they wanted me to pass the word along that they don't appreciate the way that me and you were talking about Dumbo swing. Paul. I told them girls they shouldn't be stuck on stupid. And I drove off and they was mad I didn't. I thought it was all a joke. But evidently they, they took it a whole lot more personally than I did. So anyhow, later on that night, Paul, they, two of them, two shirtless fellows, I know who they are, they snuck up in my backyard and got my ladder and lined up on my shed and stole my Georgia flag and my Dumbo Sweeney urinal picture. And by the way, Paul, that picture is the target on the urinal. So they didn't have no gloves and no shirts on, so they got my picture.

Anyhow, I didn't know.

The next morning their wife, one of their wives called my wife and they found them passed out on the port wrapped up in my Georgia flag. And one of them was using the Dumbo fixture for a pillar and they, they got pictures. I got all this on video, Paul. It's hilarious. So they, you know, whatever. And, and the good news is, Paul is on. The Clemson fella owed me a hundred dollars last year because he bet me and I don't even bet on sports, but he forced himself on me that Clemson was going to win more games than Georgia was last year. So the good news is I got my Georgia flag back, I got a hundred dollars he owes me and my wife's going to print me a new Dumbo Sweeney picture to go on my urinal. This urinal back here, Paul, is like a tourist attraction. The people around this neighborhood, they love this thing. Hello.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Hey, Jay, thank you very much for that urinal update. I've been waiting for that all day. Jim is up next. Hey, Jim, go right ahead.

[Caller]

Okay, I'm here.

[Paul Feinbaum]

I'm glad to hear that.

[Caller]

Am I on the phone with you now, Paul?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Jim, you certainly are on the phone with me.

[Caller]

Well, I'm a SEC fan, Paul, and therefore I watch your program quite frequently.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Thank you.

[Caller]

But the main, the thing that bothers me most, I'm a graduate from Mississippi state back in 1959 and as I watch your show because it is SEC, I see ignoring of Mississippi State and I, I just wanted to know what was your opinion of Mississippi State? Apparently it's not very good. And what should you recommend them do? Get out of the sec.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Well, Jim, thank you very much for your call. Thank you for bringing that question about. Just got through talking to another caller a few minutes ago about Mississippi State and suggest that I thought Jeff Lebby had done a really good job of turning the corner. It's not that we don't like Mississippi State. In fact, some of my favorite people and friends are living over there. It's just when you're at the bottom of the league, you don't get talked about nearly as much as you do when you were at the top. Thanks for the call. Appreciate it. We're heading to a break right now. More of your phone calls. Plenty to do here on a Monday afternoon.

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[Paul Feinbaum]

We're back and we'll get a little deeper. Dive into what happened Friday night to the Protect College Sports bill, which seemed on the verge of a vote. And then Congress said we'll see you in about five weeks. Ronnie is up next in Montgomery, Alabama.

[Caller]

Hey, Paul, I wanted to speak with you about this whole Lane Kiffin deal, leaving Ole Miss, going to lsu. I, I, I, it's pretty obvious that Kiffin made a just a big mess out of the whole, the whole deal.

But what I, but what I'd like

you to help me with is was it Lane walking out on Ole Miss or the administration of Ole Miss not allowing him to coach in the playoffs?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Well, I think that's a fair question, Ronnie, and thank you for your call, by the way. I appreciate it. Two things are true. Lane Kiffin walked out on them. He claimed to have wanted to coach in the playoffs and there really isn't a good point of reference. John Sumrall was allowed to coach. Of course, he was the Tulane coach, but everyone knew it was only going to be one game. Other coaches have done it as an assistant. Kirby Smart did that for Saban. Other I think Pruitt did it when he was leaving. Will Stein was with was with Oregon. But the people at Ole Miss just felt like allowing Lane Kiffin to remain on staff. While it may have helped Ole Miss, although there's no evidence that it would have since Pete Golding won two games in the playoffs and nearly won a third. They just didn't trust him to be around, so they told him to hit the road. He knew that. I mean, there's really no mystery about this Lane Kiffin situation. He knew the second he went to them and said, I'm going to take the LSU job, that he was not going to be allowed to coach. Don't forget, the week before that, he sent his family on two shopping excursions. One to Baton Rouge, one to Gainesville. So if you're all Miss and your current head coach has his family going to two different SEC rivals, you know, it's over. It's not like that relationship can be salvaged. So, I mean, I don't know what the mystery remains about Kiffin. I know that John was here earlier. He has a book coming out, and I'm sure there'll be a lot of dirt in there about Kiffin, but to me, this whole thing is just, like, really overdone. We know there's going to be drama on September 19th. We know there's going to be anxiety. Everyone knows that. And when it's over, it's over. And maybe the story will move on. But there's just, to me, nothing left to unplow on this Kiffin leaving Ole Miss story, other than a lot of angry people who remain angry. Nick is up next in Tennessee. Hello, Nick. Go right ahead.

[Caller]

Hey, what's up, man?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Hey, there.

[Caller]

Hey, Paul. Hey, so listen, you are a graduate of the University of Tennessee.

Yeah.

[Paul Feinbaum]

I think that can easily be confirmed. Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah, man.

So you know, us UT boys gotta stay together.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I feel like sometimes. Do you feel like you're proud of that? Do you feel like, you know, like, sports aside, you know, like, do you feel like, man, us UT boys gotta stick together sometimes.

Right?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Well, listen, when you go to a school and you get a degree, you're proud of your accomplishment, you're proud of what the school gave you, and it doesn't matter where you go, you never lose that. And I've talked to people who have spent their careers coaching against their alma mater as their biggest rival, and they still feel doesn't leave you.

[Caller]

Do you feel that it's like one of your proudest accomplishments to attend the University of Tennessee?

[Paul Feinbaum]

I mean, it's certainly. I'm proud of my degree, and I'm proud of the people that helped me along the way.

[Caller]

And we love you. Like, trust me, we love you.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Thank you.

[Caller]

But.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Yeah, no, but But I mean, I, I, I mean, it's, well, there's something, there's something about, you know, where you went to school that you're never going to lose. Now, I think a lot of people, and I appreciate what you said. I think a lot of people misinterpret it, though. They think that if you're in a job like this, you're. And I, and I know, and I, I know you can outrun where you win or I don't want to, but I think people confuse it sometimes for how you do your job. And you have to do it the same way whether you want to.

[Caller]

You have to remain objective. And I get that. But, brother, we, you know, Tennessee football especially has been through some rough times, all right? But I feel like we're losing a lot of respect, especially, like, recently with the DGG commitment to Tennessee. Ohio State fans are all, you know, I, I feel like people have forgotten who we are. Do you know what I mean? Like, Tennessee is, is nothing to be messed with. Like, we are a powerhouse. Like, we control a lot of the collegiate athletic, like our basketball. Like, we're never going to be slept on. And I feel like the disrespect when it comes to football is, is maddening to me. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Like, yeah, I do.

[Caller]

Borderline, like.

[Paul Feinbaum]

But, but here's the problem, Nick, and this is where you, you have to put down your, you know, your, your blood runneth orange for a second.

[Caller]

You know,

we are there.

[Paul Feinbaum]

I mean, I mean, I was in Tennessee during some sorry years, but that never changed. It's still a football power. The problem is it's like Alabama right now. You hear this constant debate when you're not in the, when you're not at the center of attention in the college football world, people take you for granted. And, you know, it's been, you know, listen, Tennessee hasn't won a national championship since 98. Hasn't, I don't think, has it won an SEC championship since then.

[Caller]

I'm trying to remember the current State of Football.

[Paul Feinbaum]

2003. No, I don't think they have.

[Caller]

I love Hypo. Yeah, I love Hypo.

I love.

Look, we got, I just went and saw DGG at and Buford High School and he took his first carrier for 55 yards. But we also thought that way about Nico, right? You know, sure. Like the savior, you know, so going to save our football. But look, man, Tennessee is no joke, dude. Like, we got all the resources, man. Like, we have everything that we need to be a powerhouse. And I think that Hart is going to lay it on the table. And look at our basketball program. We were nobody to mess with. We're one step away from being Final Four every year. You know what I mean?

[Paul Feinbaum]

Oh, no, I do know what you mean. I mean, listen, what Three elite. Hey, thank you for the call, Nick. Appreciate it very much. And. But my final word on that is a lot of people, a lot of schools feel the same way. I mean, there are some powerhouses in the SEC whether they won a title three years ago or 23 years ago. Thank you for the call. Appreciate it very, very much. And Sheila is up next.

[Caller]

What up, Paul? You tell Rocky Top Tennessee on the Paul bomb. So they are got a doggone good program in Tennessee, one that opponents can come in and practice on beating every week. Yeah, I like it. You got that? But Paul, Paul, you threw them in the same room. Paul, this is what you said. Put down your blood run. It's orange. For a second, I had to call

[Paul Feinbaum]

in, but, you know, I don't know if I've. If I'd heard that phrase in such a long time, but it came to me so naturally.

[Caller]

It was natural. And you know what? I say that about Michigan State and playing Ohio State and Michigan. Yeah. I'm a Michigan State grad on the Michigan State alumni dance team. Yep. I can kick it. But it is what it is when you're. When you're making these predictions. And to my good friend in Rocky Top Tennessee, I want to tell you, hey, Paul, fine mama's a pro. He. He gets it. But y' all are good opponents. I gotta give it to you. I love coming there, love beating your tail. But last question. I have ish. I know you gotta go. What about Signetti, man, why can't you rank my guy like he went to this Nick Saban school of rehab. Rehabbing your football skills. Rehabbing. This is with Lane Kiffin and Cesar Keesen. You know, that kind of rehab. But, you know, this guy's got it. Why you rank him the national champion, number six, and I'll hang up and let you respond.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Paul, thank you very much.

[Caller]

The eagle has landed.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Sure. You bet. Great to hear from you. Why don't we take a break? We're going to talk about what happened and what could or could not happen in Washington. We have tried to spend little time on the nuances of the Senate, but Jesse Dougherty was covering it all night long. On Friday night, Saturday morning, he'll tell us what happened and what's up next,

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[Caller]

Foreign.

[Commercial Announcer]

You're listening to the Paul Feinbaum Show Podcast.

[Paul Feinbaum]

We're back. So when we left, when we left you on Friday, we weren't really sure what was going to happen with this Senate bill. It didn't happen for a lot of reasons. And I actually saw a senator on Saturday morning. He had flown to where I was after being on the floor. And the questions now concerning the future of this bill continue to grow. Let me bring in Jesse Dougherty who's done some great reporting. And Jesse, thank you for the time. So before we get to what is next, what happened Friday? And can you explain to us laypeople who don't travel in DC Circles like you do, what exactly went down? Good afternoon.

[Caller]

Yeah, Paul, thanks for Having me, you guys didn't want to go live 2am on Friday night or this thing hold the wall.

Yeah.

So there's a lot of procedural stuff that went down. I think the top line things to know is that starting in about Wednesday last week, some of the really influential groups that can influence votes, mostly on Democratic side, but also sometimes on Republican side, start to come out against this bill. That's the NFL CIO and their sports council, which includes most of the professional sports unions, player unions, that's the Congressional Black Caucus, which going back to the SCORE act in the House last year, had a major influence in keeping that bill from not reaching a floor vote. So that sets the theme for Friday night where usually when you get closer to deadlines, closer to the, when the rubber hits the road, that's when maybe the opposition starts to mount more. And I think in the weeks ahead of it, people who are pushing the bill are probably the ones more doing media and talking and talking about its momentum. And momentum was real and that's why the opposition then comes out in full force. But then late Friday night, basically what they do is they hold a hotline and it takes unanimous consent to basically package all these bills together and vote on them as what they call the global package. But if one or two or three senators say no, we're not going to, we're not going to agree to that. If the college sports bill is included, then everyone has to just sit there and they can't move forward. It takes all 100 in this case. So you know, what I reported Saturday in the aftermath of the bill not reaching a floor vote by recess is that we know of at least two Democrats, Cory Booker and Chris Murphy, who stood in the way of that in that hotline close to midnight. They tried again around 2am to say, all right, well what about if we did this wave and we didn't go to a full vote in the end, but we did the first step, they still said no and they were willing to just sit there. And it's kind of like a game of chicken, like you're going to call your bluff. But ultimately, if they can't get that, you know, 100% buy in to waive some time constraints and hold that vote right then and there, then this thing gets kicked to September. And that's what we ultimately saw happen.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Yeah, not to give a civics class because you've already laid it out, but this isn't like a Senate vote on a, on a presidential nominee where it gets, comes out of committee, it goes to the full Senate and it's over. This is just a vote to get it passed so then it can go to the House of Representatives. And Jesse, stop me if I'm wrong, but Eric Schmidt said he thought he had 80 votes. Ted Cruz was already talking about the president signing it at the beginning of the football season. How does, how do comments like that play into the other side? Because all of a sudden we hadn't heard from Cory Booker, who's a former football player. We hadn't heard from other people. Murphy has been very active and interested in sports issues. He was at a committee hearing, I think, in March, where he was very vocal. So are there more of those? And I realize the Senate's gone home, but how would you calculate the odds of this thing getting back in front of the entire Senate?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's a great point, because when you start talking about its chances and how much support it has and the wind at its back, that is what perks the interest of the Cory Bookers of the world, who I think have been really involved in college sports in the past that maybe weren't like, super, super engaged, at least out in the open of pushing against this. He was working behind the scenes. Chris Murphy, like you said, has been more vocal publicly. But the reality is, is that Democrats just in the way that their states are made up largely, and this is not a monolith, this doesn't go for all of them. But like, if you think about, you know, Congress folks from New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Massachusetts, New York even, like, they're not getting calls all the time from, from multiple high major schools or donors that are really, really invested in athletic departments, necessarily, because college sports just aren't as big of a deal in their state. So they start to get involved now when stuff really heats up. So you're right in that that momentum and the way it was being talked about publicly does perk the interest of politicians that maybe aren't going to be thinking about college sports all the time, but when they then look at it from through a labor lens or a civil rights lens, you know, or all these different things that not necessarily don't necessarily deal with field goals and box scores and, you know, halftime shows, like, then they start to get interested. So in terms of chances, I mean, for the people pushing against this bill, the major thing was to delay this until September because that just compresses the timeline. And like you said, this has to then go to the House before it could reach the White House if it passes the Senate vote. So that's you know, and we're talking about all that before the midterms in November because there's a chance that Congress looks very different. And if the Republicans lose their control of the House, then their chances of getting this college bill through, which is bipartisan, but typically has been supported by more Republicans than Democrats, like that chance lessons, too. So the timeline we're working with here just got a lot smaller because they have to wait these five weeks for the Senate recess. And there is like a handshake agreement now for this to be brought back in right away when the Senate gets back in mid September. But that it's still like the, the idea was sort of run out the clock for the people who don't want this to be passed. And so far they've been effective. Doesn't mean there's no chance. Doesn't mean it's dead. It just means that the window is really shrinking.

[Paul Feinbaum]

And two other things. John Kennedy, the Republican senator from Louisiana, came out against it. And I mentioned Tuberville, who was also, I mean, he's the only former football coach in the Senate. He came out against it. And I referenced seeing him Saturday morning. He had flown. I was in south Alabama, where he had just flown to speak at the same event I was at. And he is clearly against this thing. And you know, the talk, Jesse, about bipartisanship, if you, you, you help me out here, but if you got the AFL CIO and the Congressional Black Caucus against it, that's not exactly trending toward bipartisanship, is it?

[Caller]

No, and I think, I think you're, you're really smart to bring up the Republican side because there are Democratic co sponsors on this. But largely it's harder to get Democratic votes on this type of college sports legislation.

So.

But then it kind of assumes when we talk about it that most Republicans are going to be on board just as sort of a matter of course. But we saw a couple ways in which that's not true. I mean, Tuberville has been banging the drum against this thing all summer and lobbying for a much skinnier bill that he introduced that would really address just eligibility in the transfer portal and, and leave a lot of the ancillary items out. I mean, that's the major takeaway of this bill, I think, is that it's big and it's really 171 pages and it covers a lot of things. And then we saw a group of senators last week, you know, wanting more clarity and frankly, wanting the bill to go harder in protecting, in their words, you know, existing state laws against transgender. You know, that. That bans transgender female athletes from participating in women's sports. So that's another complication. And then you saw Kennedy's comments, and Kennedy was someone who, you know, back when I started on this coverage In October of 2023, at a hearing for a past bill, he said the NCAA should be careful about asking Congress for help, because when you ask Congress for help, you invite a lot of cooks, you invite a lot of politics in. And that feels really prescient now, because now him on the other side of this in 2026, is still pushing against these efforts and saying, I'm not sure. I don't think this is maybe something I want to support, or at least not in this form. And he was the. He was the senator who said way back almost three years ago now that they better be careful asking for help here. So I think that's. That's really instructive for what's playing out.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Jesse, I realize you're a reporter. You're not a soothsayer. It appeared likely for passage a week ago. Now, all this came out of the closet on Friday and Friday night into Saturday morning. The window is very short, as you laid out. And the majority leader, John Thune, while he promised it would come up for a vote, that's not guaranteed. And if the votes aren't there, what happens?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think there's, you know, the promise of that vote. I mean, that was, that was, that was put out by both, both sides. Both Maria Cantwell and Ted Cruz and Eric Schmidt mentioned it in their statements after the bill didn't get voted on. I think knowing the amendments that were introduced in the last day, knowing, you know, Kennedy's comments, knowing some of the Republican opposition, knowing how strong the Democratic resistance now is with the AFL cio, with the cbc, with Murphy and Cruz aligned, two politicians who have not always approached college legislation the exact same way, but are definitely against this bill. I think there's a lot more horse trading to go, and that doesn't mean a vote couldn't come together quickly, but I think it stands to reason that, you know, that negotiations for this are not done. I don't necessarily know if the exact 171 pages, you know, that were. That were updated, pages that were released would be. Would be the bill that ultimately reaches the floor, just because there's people who want. Think different things with it. And there's, and there's, and there's definitely a lot of discussions to go. So you're right to say, like, if we were told seven days ago this is a slam dunk pre recess once the SEC and Big Ten change their tune on it, and obviously that didn't happen, I think, you know, it's a fool me once, fool me twice situation where maybe raising some skepticism to if this is sort of framed as outside of the midterms. Well, it's just, it's just a matter of, you know, the schedule and, and we're going to get it done just because, you know, we just couldn't. We just couldn't get it in that global package right at the deadline. Like, there's certainly reason to raise an eyebrow and say, but a lot of people now, like you said, Paul, are coming out of the woodwork with different issues, or they're saying they're pulling these groups in, or they're saying they're really motivated to keep making calls against this, like that's a big deal. And I think the last thing I'll say on that is when an opposition side gets a victory and they view Friday night as a real victory, that, that can be really organizing and galvanizing. So now, rather than like, you know, all those groups having to come together in the last three days and then there's still a vote and it still goes through, they're saying now, oh, wow, we kind of smell, smell some blood here because we got to win and we put one on the board. So just think about it in the sort of sports metaphor, like they're feeling pretty confident now. And I think that can just be galvanizing for continuing that effort rather than saying, well, that was fun. We tried. Let's pack it up and just let them have their college sports bill. I don't think that's what we're going to see.

[Paul Feinbaum]

And there was one other thing. And, Jesse, I also, at this event, ran into the attorney general from Alabama who told me, I was not even aware of this and I don't know how. What it all means because I haven't read it, but a number of attorney generals have also filed objections on another issue. And not to get specific here, but it feels like the more people muck this thing up, the harder it is to get across.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Well, first of all, it sounds like I should have been at this event on Saturday after.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Well, I didn't plan. I just happened to walk into it. I was, I was part of a, I was speaking at it and I, I didn't expect to get all the reporting information, but, but, but I'm happy to share it with you.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's better to be lucky than good, right? And, yeah, the, yeah, I mean, I think, I think that's right. And I think that, you know, there was, there was a pretty big, you know, groundswell of interest in folks who are part of that, the transgender athlete conversation that is obviously very, you know, very hot right now. And that's what we saw from the attorneys general too, in terms of clarifying whether the preemption of state laws in this bill, basically the clause that says, you know, that everything in this bill would supersede existing state laws on compensation or on eligibility, they're wondering if that could also affect eligibility conversations when it comes to gender. So that's, that's going to be a big issue too, and that's obviously not going away. So I think you're right that, you know, the more we go on this and the more that, you know, people start to, you know, maybe read it a bit closer or, or, or put on their sort of thinking cap when it comes to this rather than just saying, I don't care about the college sports thing. I got so much going on. There's crypto, the Russian sanctions, there's, there's confirmations, you know, there's all that stuff like, and, but when it, like I said, when it gets to the deadline, when it, when it really starts to be like we're either voting on this thing tonight or we're not, or we're having a hotline whether to decide to vote on it, like, that's when you start to see, well, okay, now what do I actually think about this? Or what do our groups say that we talk to on these things? Or can you call up, you know, that, that organization that we've always talked to on college sports, whether about eligibility or compensation or labor rights, like, I want to know what they think. And that's, that's when you see that these outside groups that exert a lot of influence come into play because most, most senators, outside of a very small group, the co sponsors of this bill, the Murphy's and bookers of the world aren't engaged on college sports all the time because they have so much going on, but now we've seen that they are. So this is when all the politics comes in and that, that Kennedy warning of, you're not going to necessarily like when you invite all these cooks into your kitchen, what it's going to do. We're seeing now how that looks now maybe the NCAA and conference to say, in the end we're fine with it because you gave us a bill that was good enough and we just negotiating And Kennedy, thanks for the warning, but it's okay. But at this moment in particular, and what happened Thursday, Friday, last week, that was again, some really good foreshadowing for what happened because it led to a vote or a vote not happening. And now we see what happens for the next five weeks because I know, at least on the Democratic side, I talked to Chris Murphy today for a story tomorrow like they're not going away and they're going to use these five weeks to get even more organized and tell their colleagues why they don't like the bill and why they should shouldn't either.

[Paul Feinbaum]

So much for bipartisanship. Jesse, thank you. Great stuff. Fantastic conversation. Nobody better on this story than Jesse Dougherty from Notice. We'll take a short break here. More from all of you in just a moment.

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[Caller]

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You're listening to the Paul Feinbaum show

[Paul Feinbaum]

podcast back and Chris is up next in Mountain Brook, Alabama.

[Caller]

Paul, great to talk to you as always, Paul. If you don't mind me asking, what was the event you attended this week? Sounds like there were a lot of important people there.

[Paul Feinbaum]

I was speaking at the Business Council of Alabama meeting in Fairhope Saturday morning.

[Caller]

That is a very big deal, Paul.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Yeah, no, I mean I was part of a group, a panel but it was an amazing. The great part was when I saw Tuberville about 8:00 in the morning. He literally had just gotten off a plane from Washington. So I was able to commandeer some really good information out of him. But yeah, I don't know if you've ever been but it was truly I had never been to this event. I was just there for a little while on Saturday. But it's an amazing group of people.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

I attended it before. It was in another life though, Paul.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Yeah, it's at the famous Grand Hotel which is right there.

[Caller]

There.

There are worse places to spend a Saturday than the Grand Hotel.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Yeah, I mean unfortunately I got in with time to just a very little time but it was really fun. I mean every, every office holder in, in the state was there and business leaders. It was pretty cool.

[Caller]

That's awesome, Paul.

I mean as far as the same college sports bill, I mean I know we've talked about it numerous times and we just have just been waiting for the new and inventive way that Congress

was going to screw this up.

But you know, to me look at there's several things that the President has made that deal that are above this as priority and they can't get those things passed mainly because he didn't fight it on the Republican side. I just wonder what hope we could ever have that this will make it all the way through.

[Paul Feinbaum]

Well, I think to Monday morning quarterback here Chris, Some of these senators who are co sponsors, Cruz and Schmidt overshot the Runway a little bit on talking about how quickly it was going to be signed. I think Schmidt said he had 80 votes. Cruz said let's get this done so the President can sign it on college game day. That's all. I mean that's just a bunch of blood luster and you know I'm not going to use Tuberville as my only source, but I think he's a pretty credible source when it comes to college football. And when he, when, when he is a, when he is against it, what does that tell you?

[Caller]

Well, that's what I mean did Cruz

didn't think they had it in the

bag once Sanki and Petiti signed off? Is that what their optimist. Is that where their optimism came from.

[Paul Feinbaum]

And again, I'll tell you what, Chris, let me put you on hold because we're about to I want to finish this conversation, but I think there's still some mystery, though. I thought the most interesting comment came from John Wilner when he publicly wondered out loud whether the SEC and the Big Ten didn't jump on board. And I realized they went through weeks of negotiation because they did not want to get blamed if it failed. We'll take a short break again.

[Commercial Announcer]

I know.

[Paul Feinbaum]

I promise the audience we are not going to delve deeply into this bill because frankly, I think most of us are sick of it. But it is worth at least trying to figure out what happens next. We'll take a short break and we are coming right back.

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