Oprah Reveals How One Person’s Belief CHANGED Her Entire Life

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Person Who Believed In Me

Episode: Oprah Reveals How One Person’s Belief Changed Her Entire Life

Host: David Begnaud
Guest: Oprah Winfrey
Date: February 23, 2026

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Overview

In this gripping, deeply personal episode, host David Begnaud sits down with global icon Oprah Winfrey to discuss the singular force of belief that altered her trajectory: her seventh grade mentor, Mr. Eugene Abrams. They explore the transformative power of being seen, the echoes of early trauma, and how a single act of faith can set in motion ripples that transcend personal success to impact generations. The conversation is raw, reflective, and full of gratitude—an unexpected window into Oprah's path from a painful childhood to worldwide influence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Being Seen: Mr. Eugene Abrams

• Origins of Their Connection:

  • Oprah recounts being a quiet, bookish, introverted child, often ostracized for her love of reading and "talking white" [07:39].
  • Mr. Abrams, not a formal teacher but a university researcher on cafeteria duty, spotted her reading in noisy lunchrooms [09:47, 21:18].
  • He regularly checked on her, encouraged her curiosity, and provided her with books:

    “I remember he would just walk by... and he would always speak to me. He would ask me, what are you reading?” — Oprah [09:52]

• Impact on Oprah:

  • His validation and recognition were a source of comfort during a period of ongoing sexual abuse and family instability:

    “What those lunchroom conversations allowed for me was validation that bad things were happening to me, but that I wasn't a bad person. That somebody saw that I was a good person. That's big.” — Oprah [18:13]

• Facilitating Opportunity:

  • Mr. Abrams advocated for Oprah to attend Nicolet High School, a pivotal move that altered her future. He saw her as different, special—"the most curious 13 year old I ever ran across." [21:27]
  • Reflecting on those days:

    “I started, you know, taking young girls out of the project. ... I thought about what Mr. Abrams had done for me by giving me the opportunity to go to Nicolet.” — Oprah [31:36]

• The "It" Factor:

  • Oprah describes searching for the indefinable quality in girls for her South African school:

    “I was looking for the girl who has it. ... It’s the ability to be resilient, to believe bigger than what people see for you.” — Oprah [06:12]

2. Pain, Resilience, and Transformation

• Oprah candidly describes surviving sexual abuse and deep family hardship [00:00, 16:38].

• The shame and solitude she felt as a child became the roots of her empathy and desire to validate others:

  “Every word spoken... that allows a person to see themselves in a better light, helps them not feel so alone.” — Oprah [14:11]

• Both Oprah and David discuss the pain of childhood difference, how teachers were safe havens for them [35:28].

• Oprah reads Maya Angelou's poem, emphasizing interdependence and belonging:

  “That nobody, but nobody can make it out here alone.” — Oprah reading Maya Angelou [13:03]

3. Gratitude and Ripple Effect

• Oprah stresses gratitude for her hardships, noting pain cultivated her ability to connect and uplift:

  “Every piece of it, even the... abuse, the feeling alone, has created a deeper sense of empathy in me for other people.” — Oprah [41:34]

• She discusses returning the investment she received by uplifting others:

  “How do I figure out how to use the 10% or more than 10? How do I use that for something that's bigger and greater than myself?” — Oprah [32:05]

• Both hosts reflect on not wanting to erase painful experiences, as they shaped their values and abilities:

  “Nothing is wasted. Not a damn thing, not one thing is wasted.” — Oprah [42:44]

4. Belief, Identity, and Self-Validation

• Oprah details her evolving sense of self:

  • Initially thought of becoming a teacher due to Mrs. Duncan's influence [25:29].
  • Recalls inspiration upon seeing Barbara Walters, pivoting to journalism, despite discouragement [26:30].
  • Shares a prophecy from Wintley Phipps that she’d “speak to millions” — an external seed of belief [37:26].

• Now, she sees her mission as “validating people in their own growth” [38:50], and maintains a “sense of wonder and awe” for her journey [39:34].

5. Vulnerability, Kindness, and Human Connection

• The conversation is recursively vulnerable—David shares being bullied for being gay and having Tourette’s, finding refuge with teachers just as Oprah did with Mr. Abrams [35:44].
• Oprah recognizes the lifelong impact of small acts of validation, recalling even fleeting comments from churchgoers as a child [15:03].
• Both agree that genuinely asking, “Are you okay?” is rare but vital [13:03, 19:02].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On validation and pain:

  “People cry because nobody's ever asked them, how are you? Are you okay in there? Every day. His little check in with me was a way of saying, are you okay?” — Oprah [00:27, 19:02]

• On abuse and being seen:

  “I was being sexually assaulted by a family member and another family member... none of my teachers knew that... but that somebody saw that I was a good person. That's big.” — Oprah [00:00, 18:13]

• On finding purpose:

  “My interest now is in validating people in their own growth. ... That's what gives me tingles all over.” — Oprah [38:50]

• On gratitude:

  “I feel deep, deep gratitude for the life that I've been able to live. I am in constant awe.” — Oprah [39:34]

• On hardship:

  “If you erase that, you erase this.” — David Begnaud [42:53]

• On legacy:

  “Your legacy isn't one thing, it's every life you've touched, every word spoken that allows a person to see themselves in a better light.” — Oprah [14:11]

• Childhood Memory:

  “Whenever I see little girls... I will purposely go up... and say something to that little girl about her beauty, about her charm, about her brains...” — Oprah [15:03]

• David’s Reflection:

  “If I wrote a book, it would be called How Television Saved Me From Myself.” — David Begnaud [45:40]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–00:45: Oprah on trauma, validation, being seen by Abrams
• 04:15–06:00: Judy Abrams (Mr. Abrams’ daughter) shares her father’s perspective
• 09:47–11:45: Oprah details her first encounters with Mr. Abrams in the lunchroom
• 13:03–15:00: Oprah reads Maya Angelou’s poem on needing one another
• 16:38–18:13: Oprah connects sexual abuse, shame, and the importance of being seen
• 21:18–22:28: Mr. Abrams’ unique influence and role as a university researcher
• 24:46–25:29: Oprah on class, family expectations, and discovering ambition
• 31:36–32:46: Oprah describes how she tried to pay forward her opportunity
• 39:34–41:19: Oprah describes living with gratitude and awe, from Mississippi to Montecito
• 41:34–43:44: Discussion on not erasing pain—how hardship forges empathy
• 45:40–46:44: David on the redemptive power of being seen and his journey
• 47:30–48:23: David recalls his own teacher’s pivotal intervention

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Final Thoughts

The episode is a luminous testimony to the power of belief, especially the kind quietly given by mentors and educators who see children’s hidden struggles. Oprah’s gratitude and sense of responsibility reframe hardship as the raw material for value and compassion. Throughout, David and Oprah reinforce that while none of us makes it alone, the ripple effect of kindness, guidance, and belief can change not just a life, but the world.

Oprah closes:

“I'm Oprah Winfrey, and the person who believed in me was Eugene Abraham.” [48:27]

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This summary captures the tone, vulnerability, and major narrative arcs of the episode—making clear its message: Sometimes, all it takes is one person to change the whole story.

Transcript

[Oprah Winfrey]

It was a challenging time. I'd already been raped at nine, I was being sexually assaulted by a family member and another family member. He did not know that. None of my teachers knew that. What those lunchroom conversations allowed for me was validation that bad things were happening to me, but that I wasn't a bad person. That somebody saw that I was a good person. That's big.

[David Begnaud]

One of the most powerful people in the entertainment industry.

[Oprah Winfrey]

A global force. One and only Oprah. People cry because nobody's ever asked them, how are you? Are you okay in there? Every day. His little check in with me was a way of saying, are you okay? But also, I see something in you and I know you can do better.

[David Begnaud]

He said that curiosity defined you. If it defined you, then what defines you now?

[Oprah Winfrey]

The interest in validating people in their own growth. That's what gives me tingles all over. I could see start crying right now. I. I feel deep gratitude for the life that I've been able to live. Wow.

[David Begnaud]

I always say, Oprah, I have a bachelor's degree in general studies and a PhD in pain.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Ooh, can you tell me this? And if it's improper, then let's take it out.

[David Begnaud]

But this is probably going to surprise you. Really? When did you begin to believe in yourself the way he did?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, So good to see you. Good to see you, David. Here, for the person who believed in me.

[David Begnaud]

Before we start, allow me to thank my friends at Canva. This podcast is possible because they believed in us. Canva has a two step plan. Go build the world's most valuable company and then do the most good it can. They give their product free of charge to schools and nonprofits because they are on a mission to create equal opportunities that empower people all over the world. Welcome to the person who Believed in Me. I'm David Begnaud. In this series, we sit down with remarkable people, big names in their field, and we talk about the person who changed their life. For me, this podcast is about big people, talking about the person who believed in them before the world did. And our first guest on this podcast is none other than Oprah Winfrey.

[Oprah Winfrey]

None other than.

[David Begnaud]

And for me, I must say, there is no more meaningful guest, especially to start this with, than you, because of how much the show and you changed my life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. I love that beautiful letter you had calligraphy for me. Dear Oprah, as I launch do good. And with this podcast, there's no guest whose presence means more to me than yours. A profound part of who I am, both as a human and as a storyteller was shaped by watching you live your truth and introduce the world to people living theirs through the Oprah Winfrey Show. The life lessons I learned from that show laid the foundation for this project. The person who believed in me. Thank you for believing in me and for saying yes with gratitude. David. Oh, so well written. Too beautiful. I will save it forever. You know, I have letters from everybody that I've talked to in the world that was important to me, and I have boxes and boxes and boxes of them. It's my treasure.

[David Begnaud]

From her early days as a student with Big Questions to becoming one of the most influential voices of our time, Oprah has spent her life helping others see their own worth. She built a career, a global community on empathy, curiosity, and connection. But behind every great journey is someone who said, I believe in you. And for Oprah, that person was a seventh grade teacher who noticed her curiosity, opened a door, and helped her to step through it. Over the next hour, we'll explore how the belief took root, how it continues to ripple through everything she has built since.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's good. That's a good intro.

[David Begnaud]

We're going to start with this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God.

[David Begnaud]

Do you remember when that was taken?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes. That's Mr. Abrams on the Oprah show.

[David Begnaud]

Mr. Eugene Abrams.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mr. Eugene Abrams. Wow. You know, I was thinking, I did not have any record of. I knew I was gonna be talking about him today. And I told Nicole, my comms person, you know, look in my Lincoln High School book and see if there's a one of those little tiny pictures of the. Because I thought that was the only photograph. I have never seen this.

[David Begnaud]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

How did you get this?

[David Begnaud]

From his daughter.

[Oprah Winfrey]

From his daughter.

[David Begnaud]

His daughter.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[David Begnaud]

In fact, watch this recording.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[Judy Abrams]

Oprah, from the time I my father met you, he would come home with tales and he would say there was chaos in the cafeteria. There was all this noise, but there was this one bright, bright young woman sitting there. And he would tell us that he'd give you a book, and then the next day you would come home and you have read. You read the book overnight and would discuss it. He knew you were special. He knew there was something about you that separated you from all the other students in that cafeteria. And that's why he worked so hard to get you into Nicolay High School. He saw something in you and he said you had it. And he would always say it. There was something about you that just stood out and that you would help people.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Dear Jesus, that is Judy helped you. Oh, My goodness. Now, this is such a full circle moment for me. Because when I was building my school,

[David Begnaud]

that's what I look for in South Africa.

[Oprah Winfrey]

In South Africa. When I was building my school in South Africa, I was looking for the girls who had it. And I never described myself as having it, but I was looking for the girls who had that same quality that I knew that I had growing up that's really indescribable. You either have it or you don't. It's the ability to be resilient in the face of challenges. It's the ability to see the world as you believe it can be and not necessarily as what's around you or what people are telling you. It's the ability to believe bigger than what people see for you and being able to hold onto that vision for yourself. And when I went from school to school, trying to pull girls out of, like, little, you know, schools underneath the tree where there's a hundred kids sitting on the ground, and I would say, I'm looking for the girl who has it. I'm looking for the girl who has it.

[David Begnaud]

Is that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And the fact that he saw that in me is pretty incredible.

[David Begnaud]

Speaking of schools, do you recognize this place?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[David Begnaud]

You know where this came from? The year?

[Oprah Winfrey]

The yearbook? The quill?

[David Begnaud]

Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

1967. So I was only there for seventh and eighth grade.

[David Begnaud]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And it was Mr. Abrams, this man, who used to see me. Just his daughter. Her name is Judy.

[David Begnaud]

Judy.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Judy said he would see me in the cafeteria, and there would be kids throwing spitballs and yelling and screaming and craziness. I always hated the lunch hour because it was just so much chaos. And I'm an introvert at heart. And so I find.

[David Begnaud]

Which people find hard to believe.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know I'm an introvert who knows how to. I have extroverted tendencies, but I am really. I gather my strength. I gather my sense of being. I gather myself in the silence of myself, and have always done that, I think, because I was raised on a farm with my grandmother in solitude, with just my grandmother and my grandfather, who I now believe must have had dementia. But he was just a shadow in that house. I never had any real contact or any real memories except he was just always lurking in the background. And so it was my grandmother and it was me. And I became very content making up stories for myself, with myself, based on stories that my grandmother was reading to me. And then I later learned to read myself. But, yes, I am more introverted than I am extroverted.

[David Begnaud]

You had gone from. Was It Nashville. So let's set the scene. Before seventh grade, you had gone from Nashville to live with your mother in Wisconsin.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So here it is. I live with my grandmother till I was six.

[David Begnaud]

Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Moved to Wisconsin for kindergarten and first grade. Because I got myself moved in the first grade. You know, that whole story.

[David Begnaud]

Yep.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So kindergarten in first grade, and then moved back to Nashville. Moved to Nashville with my father for the first time. So I'm like, meeting my father for the first time.

[David Begnaud]

Vernon Winfrey.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Vernon Winfrey. Then Nashville. I remember.

[David Begnaud]

Back to Wisconsin.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wisconsin, right. And then back to Nashville.

[David Begnaud]

And then back to Nashville. So the time you go back to Wisconsin, you're living with your mother, Vernita Lee.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[David Begnaud]

And you go to the school. It's seventh grade. Do you remember your first memory of Mr. Eugene Abrams?

[Oprah Winfrey]

My first memory is always in the cafeteria. Cause I guess he must have been given cafeteria patrol. So I don't remember him as a teacher of mine. He wasn't a teacher of mine. He just was on duty patrolling the wild and crazy cafeteria. And would see me every day. I'd be the kid sitting in the corner while all the other kids are doing all of their crazy stuff. I'd be sitting in the corner with a book. Of course, that is the way to be completely ostracized by your fellow fellow students, you know? And he. I remember he would just walk by, and time and again, he would always speak to me. And he would ask me, what are you reading? And sometimes he would give me a book, and then I would go home and read the book. I would devour books. You know, books were my companions, my friends. It was my way of seeing a world beyond my own world. Because at the time, I was living with my mother in Milwaukee. She had two other children, my half brother and sister, and we were on welfare. And doing the thing that you do, you're just trying to survive and get through every day. And just having someone to see me and appreciate the fact that I was a reader and not to be made fun of for being a reader, because I was a lot in my community made fun of for talking the way I talked. Oh, you trying to act like you white. You talking white. You talking. And so having somebody appreciate that or value that was really important to me. So I started to look for him every day. Like, I'd wait for him to, like, come by the table. He's gonna come again. And one day he just stopped and said. He said, you're not like all the other kids. You know that, right? And I said, Yeah, I kind of know that. And he said, I am going to get you out of this school, and I'm going to put you in a school where you can actually be really challenged. And that's what he did.

[David Begnaud]

So we're going to come to that in a moment. There was a quote from him where he said, I gave her a book, and she came back the next day and she had read all of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, I don't remember what that book was.

[David Begnaud]

No, but all of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Because that's what I would do. What do you have to do when you're a kid?

[David Begnaud]

Would you go in, like, seek him out after that? Like you'd see him out?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes, I would. Yes, I would. Yes, I would. Because this is the thing. I wanted to read this to you. I brought this little poem I wanted to read to you. It reminded me of this because another one of my great mentors, as you know. I know most people think I'm gonna talk about Maya Angelou, who believed in me before. But by the time I met Maya, I already had a pretty strong belief in myself that I was gonna be okay. But Mr. Abrams, at the time that I met Mr. Abrams, I still had not gone through one of the worst phases of my life. I was actually being sexually assaulted at the time that I met him. He did not know that. None of my teachers knew that. And so having a voice, a voice outside of yourself saying to you, you're okay when you have that going on, and all the stuff at home going on. But here's a poem I wanted to read to you from that Maya Angelou had written. It says, line thinking last night how to find my soul a home where water is not thirsty and bread loaf is not stone. I came up with one thing, and I don't believe I'm wrong. That nobody, but nobody can make it out here alone. Alone, all alone. Nobody, but nobody can make it out here alone. There are some millionaires with money they can't use Their wives run round like banshees Their children sing the blues They've got expensive doctors to cure their hearts of stone. But nobody, nobody can make it out here alone Alone, all alone. Nobody, but nobody can make it out here alone. Now if you listen closely I'll tell you what I know. Storm clouds are gathering the wind is gonna blow the race of man is suffering and I can hear the moan. Cause nobody, but nobody can make it out here alone Alone, all alone. Nobody, but nobody can make it out here alone.

[David Begnaud]

Damn, I've never heard that Maya poem Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Isn't that a good one?

[David Begnaud]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's a good one. That's a good one. And it's so true. Wow. None of us, no matter where you are in your life, made it alone. There might have been a Mr. Abrams who was prominent, and you saw that person every day. But I think every word spoken, you know, like Maya also says, my favorite teaching of hers is that your legacy isn't one thing, it's every life you've touched, every word spoken that allows a person to see themselves in a better light, helps them not feel so alone. And I remembered, you know, you heard me tell the story of when I was just a little. What? I was speaking in Nashville and I was. I think I was 8 years old at the time, and Tish Hooker, who was the wife of John Jay Hooker, who was running for governor, came up to me. They were, you know, campaigning for governor and they were doing all the black churches. And she stopped me after service and she took my chin in her hand and she said, my, you have such beautiful brown eyes and such bee stung lips. Now, I used to hate my lips. I used to feel like my lips were too big and my nose was too wide. And I was doing everything to try to minimize that. And her telling me that I had such beautiful brown eyes and bee stung lips allowed me to see myself differently. And I never forgot that. And I was 8 years old, which was. So whenever I see little girls, and oftentimes the little girls who everybody else doesn't say, oh, that's a pretty little girl, I will purposely go up to that little girl and say something to that little girl about her beauty, about her charm, about her brains, about her being intelligent about something. Because I know it's an impression, even from a stranger. It leaves an impression that lasts.

[David Begnaud]

I thought you might want to know, but this podcast is at the heart of a company I founded called Do Good Crew. I've spent 25 years telling stories. It used to be the bad news, and now I want to focus on the good news. The everyday heroes who are doing extraordinary things. You can join us. We do live events, but we also have a newsletter. It's free and you can sign up for it by going to www.thedogoodcrew.com. am I understanding you to say that Mr. Abrams came into your life and believed in you at a point when you had not yet been rooted in believing in yourself?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, I didn't. I didn't know anything. I was. I'm telling you, I was being sexually assaulted on a Regular basis. And I'd already been raped. At 9, I was being sexually assaulted by a family member and another family member. And I felt like I am just some. I must have a scarlet letter. There must be something about me that attracts people to abuse me. And what I now know it is, is that people see that you come from a broken home. You don't have a strong family life. You are a lonely kid. You are an introverted kid. That's the kid they're going to look for. That's the kid they're going to look for. They're not looking for the strong, outgoing, you know, I will tell on you in a minute, kid. They're looking for the kid that looks vulnerable. And so now I realize that is your own scarlet letter that you're wearing when you are being preyed upon by people who are looking to do terrible things to children. So, Mr. Abrams, coming into my life at this time when that was going on, and there was just, you know, many times we didn't even know if we were going to, you know, something. I'd come home and the lights weren't on. The electricity had been turned off because there wasn't enough money. My mother was working as a domestic while also, you know, on welfare. And it was a challenging time.

[David Begnaud]

What did those lunchroom conversations with him give you that you weren't getting somewhere else?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, my God. Don't make me. I'm not gonna cry. I'm not going to cry. So what those lunchroom conversations allowed for me was validation that I wasn't a bad person, that bad things were happening to me, but that I wasn't a bad person, that somebody saw that I was a good person. That's big. And allowed me to feel seen, just to feel seen. And I recognize, as do you, in all of these years of interviewing people, that whether you do a story on them or not, just spending time with people and asking them questions about their lives. I mean, there used to be a time where people would say, well, how do you get people to cry like that? Why do people come on your show and cry? People cry because nobody's ever asked them, how are you? Nobody actually says, how are you really doing? Are you okay? It's. Why a couple of years ago or a few years ago, when Elmo said, is everybody okay out there? Everybody went nuts. Because everybody isn't. There's a damn puppet asks, is everybody okay? And it's because most people, particularly in our world, I think we do a lot of communicating in terms of social media, but Nobody is really asking, are you okay? Are you okay in there? And what Mr. Abrams did for me every day, his little check in with me was a way of saying, are you okay? But also, I see something in you, and I know you can do better. He actually said to me, I know you can do better. You can do better. You have the potential to do better. You have the potential to do better.

[David Begnaud]

We used to have lunch together all the time back when I was 13. I had then moved from Nashville, where Mrs. Duncan was my teacher, to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And this man is the person who's responsible for getting me into one of the best high schools in Milwaukee at the time, and still is, when integration of public schools there was just beginning, and officials had opened the doors for 16 black students. And this man, Mr. Abrams, was the man who made sure that my name was included. Mr. Abrams, come on here, Mr. Abrams.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Hey, how are you? Good to see you.

[Mr. Eugene Abrams]

Get my arms around.

[David Begnaud]

I remember sitting in the cafeteria at Lincoln High School every day. What was I do I doing there asking questions?

[Mr. Eugene Abrams]

You were the most curious 13 year old I ever ran across. I was on a project for the university in your junior senior high. And you were the fun at lunchtime. You always had a book and you always had a question.

[David Begnaud]

Yeah, I do remember always reading during lunchtime.

Okay.

[Mr. Eugene Abrams]

And you always came up with a question, and the average student would ask the question to put answer number seven down on the paper. And you were just curious.

[David Begnaud]

So Mr. Abrams was an educator from the University of Wilson, Wisconsin, Milwaukee. And he was conducting university research when he first spotted you. That's why he was at the school.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, he wasn't a teacher.

[David Begnaud]

He was doing research at the school. That's what, to me, makes this so incredible. Like, Mr. Abrams was essentially passing through.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, my God.

[David Begnaud]

He worked from the university. And this little girl was someone who stuck out to him in such a meaningful way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I did not know that.

[David Begnaud]

And a quote from him was, you were the Most curious, freest 13 year old girl I had ever run across. Wow. I had ever run across. And so in his research, he sees this girl, starts to recommend books, starts to ask questions, and then himself gets asked, hey, we need a few black kids to send to what, a white school? And he said, I know the kid. I know. I know the kid.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know the kid.

[David Begnaud]

You got to take this girl.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

Her name is Oprah Winfrey.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

And then you went to this school. You get bused across town. On the bus were some domestic workers, some maids, and you were quoted as Saying at one point, that was when I realized I was poor.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. How so?

[David Begnaud]

Why?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I think as long as you're in an environment where everybody is just like you. I mean, everybody goes to the same grocery store and you're eating the same things and you're basically dressing the same, and it's just. Life is just what it is. It didn't occur to me that I was considered poor until I was bused to the suburbs. It wasn't like busing, you know, like kids were actually put on buses. I actually got on the bus every morning with all of the domestic workers.

[David Begnaud]

A city bus.

[Oprah Winfrey]

A city bus. A school bus, not a school bus. And sometimes my own mother would be on that school bus, would be on that city bus, headed to work. Headed to work. Because the school that I went to was in the suburb of Fox Point where she worked for this Jewish family. And so. And that was. That was embarrassing to me sometimes, like when my mother would be on the bus with all the other maids, and then I would be getting off at the. Off at the school, going to the school. And I didn't want people to know at the time that my mother was a maid. Now I am. I can honestly say that I am proud to come from, you know, a history of domestic workers, because what else was available to an uneducated black woman in the 50s and 60s and early 70s? And my mother, my grandmother, actually expected that that's what I would become. You know, I've told that story of my grandmother saying, you better watch me now, because one day you have to learn how to do this for yourself. She was hanging up clothes, and I knew that is not going to be my life. But my grandmother had no greater expectation for my life than that I would become a domestic worker.

[David Begnaud]

And so that's Oprah, what fascinates me. So the experience you saw of your grandmother was being a domestic worker of your mother. Where was it that you saw something that was bigger than that, that led that girl to become this woman?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, you know, I was. When I got into my father, the notion of what you could be changed, but it didn't grow to extend to the idea that I could be anything other than a teacher, which I always thought I was going to be a teacher because of. Not because of Mr. Abrams, but because of my fourth grade teacher, Mrs. Duncan.

[David Begnaud]

Ms. Duncan, who, by the way, was on the. When you had Mr. Abrams on the

[Oprah Winfrey]

show, Ms. Duncan was on. I know. That was. That was so good. So Ms. Duncan was my fourth grade teacher, who I Not only did she. I don't know if she believed in me, but she certainly recognized that I had something going on for myself. And because of Mrs. Duncan, I always wanted to be a fourth grade teacher. I really had wanted to be an actress. But my father said, no daughter of mine is gonna, that's not gonna happen. Forget that. Cause Hollywood is casting couches and forget that. That is not gonna happen to a daughter of mine. So I had just decided to give up on that dream. And then there's this, you know, fateful moment that I'm in the misfire prevention contest. Oh, yes, that fateful moment. And I had no thought, had never thought about what I would be other than a teacher. I thought, well, I will major in speech and drama and I will teach theater because I can't be in the theater. I will teach theater. And it was my 16 year old self that had turned on the Today show that morning and I saw Barbara Walters. And when I was in the midst of this contest being asked a question about, what do you want to do with your life? What do you want to be when you grow up? All the other answers had been taken. There'd already been two girls that said they wanted to be teachers. So I really just was just trying to think of what. Searching, searching. What can a woman do? What can I say a woman can do? Barbara Walters. And I said I wanted to be a journalist and tell stories in order to help people to see their lives differently. I don't know, I channel that answer. And so seeing a Barbara Walters and you know, I remember also when I was in Baltimore and already started my career in television and I had said to an agent that I had in Baltimore that I just wanted to have my tape submitted. David, would you please submit my tape to Good Morning America so that I could substitute for Joan London?

[David Begnaud]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And this agent said to me, I'm not going to even do that because they've already got a black person. I go, no, they don't. They really don't. And they say. He said, well, they've got Brian Gumpel on NBC. I go, but he's on. He's on. He's on Channel 4. He's on NBC. They go, well, there's only going to be one. And so he would not submit my tape.

[David Begnaud]

I need to take a moment just to thank Canva for backing this podcast. Their support is what makes these conversations possible. Canva is guided by a clear idea. Build something incredibly valuable and then use it to do real good in the world. That's why they provide their tools free of charge to schools and non profits, helping to create equal access and opportunity for people all over the world. Before we get back to Mr. Abrams, I also want to bring up where Dennis wants him when he puts you on the Overwinter Show. I'll never forget the story you tell about that, where Dennis said, I'm going to give you this show.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

Dream come true. But I want you to do two things. Don't change who you are, what you look like and how much you weigh.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

I want you to just stay the same.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know.

[David Begnaud]

Because that's what America loves.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Well, it's so interesting because I had been brought to Baltimore and in the midst of this great big campaign of what is an Oprah. And Oprah. And Oprah, I was on the. I was set to anchor the co. Anchor the 6 o' clock news for a year. The same year that Barbara Walters was doing it with Harry Reasoner.

[David Begnaud]

No.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Wow. Remember, that was the biggest. Well, of course. You're too young.

[David Begnaud]

No, come on. I'm a student of broadcasting.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Of course. Yes. That was the biggest thing.

[David Begnaud]

But 6 o' clock in Baltimore, that's where they told you you were too emotional reading the news.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I was too emotional. And I was also told that my.

[David Begnaud]

My nose was too big. Right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

My nose was too big. Nose was too big. Your eyes are too far apart. You need to do something with your hair. The whole thing.

[David Begnaud]

The whole thing.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And, you know, even at the time that I was being told this, it wasn't. I was. I was doing an interview with Tracee Ellis Ross for Hulu about black women in hair. That I was telling her that story.

[David Begnaud]

Which is a good watch, by the

[Oprah Winfrey]

way, if you haven't seen it. Yes. And I was telling her that story, David. And she said, wow, that is just such a misogynist, you know, racist thing. And I was like, it had never occurred to me.

[David Begnaud]

You didn't receive it that way.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I didn't. It never. You know what? I thought it was about me not being pretty enough. I thought, see, they wouldn't say that.

[David Begnaud]

So you believed it and you thought, he's telling the truth.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, I thought he was.

[David Begnaud]

Wow.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

All right. So, Mr. Abrams, you end up getting accepted to the school. You get bus crossed down and somebody paid your tuition.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Who did?

[David Begnaud]

I don't know. Do you? You still don't know?

[Oprah Winfrey]

I don't know who paid my tuition.

[David Begnaud]

And Mr. Abrams didn't know either when he was on the show in the late 80s.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I didn't even know it was a tuition. I thought it was a. I thought

[David Begnaud]

it was a public school tuition. Support to go. And he didn't know who paid it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. I did not know that. How are you getting all this?

[David Begnaud]

Oh, you know, just a little bit of research. When did you realize, Oprah, that he had been so fundamental in helping to shape your life? It wasn't. Then when was it that you were like that man?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, you know, when I realized it. I realized it when I first came to Chicago and I was making more money than I needed. Yeah. Than I ever dreamed. I think I was making, like, 230. I remember Gail going, well, that is just fu. Money. That is just like you're making $200,000. That's it. So I had enough money to pay my rent and still have money left over. And I immediately started thinking about, what do I do? How do I use this? How do I use who I am and what I have? This platform? And I started, you know, taking young girls out of the project. I started. So that's when I started thinking about it. I thought about what Mr. Abrams had done for me by giving me the opportunity to go to Nicolet. I immediately. First, you know, I was raised to believe from my grandmother, my father. Father, like, for whom much is given, much is expected. So I live with this. Now that you have it, you just can't keep it. I was a tither in church, you know. Do you know what that means? Okay. Oh, you're Southern. Okay.

[David Begnaud]

So Catholic. Good Catholic boy.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay. So, you know, I grew up with the give 10%, give 10%, give 10%. So I was like, okay, how do I figure out how to use the 10% or more than 10? How do I use that for something that's bigger and greater than myself? And I thought about what Mr. Abrams had done for me, giving me an opportunity. And I thought about Mr. Abrams again. When I started my school, I thought about giving kids. Because me providing a whole school where everything is paid for, which I still do to this day in South Africa, was his version of taking me out of Lincoln and putting me.

[David Begnaud]

That's huge. That's huge. What I also love is I read that he never tried to stop you from the questions. He didn't try and mold you. He encouraged you to keep asking. But what I wonder is, were there other people who thought, that girl is such a pest, she won't shut up?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I was one of those kids who was made fun of for my curiosity and My speaking, because the

[David Begnaud]

kids at that age did not think it was cool.

[Oprah Winfrey]

They did not think it was right, and they did not think, you know, just even speaking, you know, having your verbs agree with your subjects was addiction. Yeah. The diction, all that stuff. All that. That was all those things that were important to me as a reader, as a person who reads, and also a person who read out loud. So I loved reading out loud to myself. As Maya always said, poetry should always also specifically be read out loud. And so having somebody like Mr. Abrams, which I now have a picture of, was fundamental, was just fundamental. I think all of us have. I believe in guardian angels. I believe you have ancestors and spiritual guides and all that. But I do think that people come in the form of the flesh here on Earth to be a part of our life's journey. And different people offered different things.

[David Begnaud]

I have to tell you what this offered to me when I did my research. One thing I loved about the Oprah show was no matter how famous you were or how wealthy you were or connected you were, you always conducted yourself in a way that made us see something of ourself in you. And I remember that note that that woman from Ann Arbor, Michigan, wrote you in 1987, where she said, oprah, seeing you be the best of yourself makes me want to be the best of my life.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Isn't that my epitaph? Isn't that just it?

[David Begnaud]

There is nothing better.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I just feel to this day, there's nothing better.

[David Begnaud]

There is nothing better. And so when I read what happened with you and Mr. Abrams in the lunchroom, I saw myself in that. Not because I'm a voracious reader like you are, but because teachers were my refuge. I grew up gay with Tourette's. And so if I wasn't being teased for being a freak show because of the Tourette's, I was a fag and a queer and all that. And in Deep south, weren't you a sissy, too? I was all of that. And so in. In Deep South Louisiana, being gay was worse than being the freak show with my Tourette's. And so every day, every day, I would go and take refuge with a teacher who would let me sit in her classroom during lunch. And it got to be so much that the teachers would say, david, you can't come in here anymore. And so I would go to the next teacher.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow.

[David Begnaud]

And just ask if they'd let me sit in. They didn't have to talk to me, but just. And that's where adults became my safe space. My safe place, because the playground was not. And so, in a way, you also were a little bit of a loner in that lunch.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, yeah, very much so.

[David Begnaud]

And I thought, I'll be damned if I don't see myself in Oprah's pain at that time.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So I never knew that because I

[David Begnaud]

haven't shared a ton of it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I never knew that. But yes, and Mr. Mr. Abrams was actually by refuge. I didn't have a classroom to go sit in, but every day he would come and talk to me. And I just am stunned to know that he wasn't even a teacher there. He was there doing research, wasn't even there full time. What was his research? On what?

[David Begnaud]

That's a good question. Yeah, you stumped me on that one.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, here's a great question.

[David Begnaud]

When did you begin to believe in yourself the way he did?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I knew that I had the ability to communicate. Oh, I tell you what. There was another person who. I don't know if he believed in me, but his name is Wintley Phipps, who has been a friend of mine now for four decades, but Wentley Phipps. I was doing something backstage at some event in Baltimore. It was like, 78. And Wintley Phipps came up to me. He's a wonderful baritone singer. Yes. And he said, God has impressed me to tell you. God has impressed me to tell you that you will be speaking to millions of people in your lifetime, and you will have great influence and you will make a difference in people's lives beyond anything you have ever imagined.

[David Begnaud]

How old were you?

[Oprah Winfrey]

I was 28. So, like, 1978. So I was 74. I was 20. So 28. Right.

[David Begnaud]

Sometimes that goes to one person's ego.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But no, it didn't go to my ego, because I said to him, in

[David Begnaud]

Baltimore, here, that's gonna happen in Baltimore.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And he goes, God did not tell me where it's gonna happen. But God has. I mean, when somebody stops you and says, young lady, may I speak to you for a moment? Yes. He goes, God has impressed me to tell you. And I was like, now. That resonated with me because shortly after that, I was doing this show called People Are Talking, and Gene Houston, who's like a psychic, something person said something very similar to me. Like, you're going to be speaking to millions of people. And again, I was like, on this show in Baltimore, how is that going to happen? I don't see it. I don't see it happening.

[David Begnaud]

You never forget people saying stuff like that. Yeah, I have some favorite oprah quotes that we're going to get to in a moment. Just a couple more questions before we wrap up. Mr. Abrams. He said that curiosity. Curiosity defined you. If it defined you, then what defines you now?

[Oprah Winfrey]

I would say the, the, the. The interest in validating people in their own growth. I have real interest. So good. So good in validating people in their own growth. That's, that's what defines me. That's what makes me. That's what gives me tingles all over.

[David Begnaud]

And there is still this wonder that is in you. How do you, how do you keep that alive today? Right. Like, because, because a lot of people would have either burned out or would have said I had a great run, but, like, you're still doing meaningful, moving, influential things today.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, I think. I think one of my greatest assets is that I have learned to live in that present moment thing. That's not just some woo woo spiritual talk for me. I feel a great sense of wonder and awe and just deep, deep, deep. I could start crying right now. I feel deep, deep gratitude for the life that I've been able to live. I am in constant awe. There's this wonderful spiritual that Mahalia Jackson used to sing, how I Got over, that's gonna be at my. That's the last song for me going out. How I got over. My soul looks back in wonder how I got over. And many times I'm walking around my property in Montecito, and I will look up at the lawn or I'll be walking along the road, which is now all graveled and whatever, and I think about that dirt red road in Mississippi that I used to walk on. And the journey, David, from Mississippi, rural Mississippi, no running water, no electricity, outhouse to here, where I am now in my life in that particular space in Montecito. But just where I am in my life, the journey from my grandmother's front porch to my front porch is. It just leaves me in awe, wonder, and just great gratitude. And I often think that it could only happen in the United States of America.

[David Begnaud]

Well, you've been vocal about how great you think this country is. Wrapping up. A couple of questions. There was so much pain in my younger life. There was so much pain in your younger life. If you could go back and relive that life, would you want to erase that pain?

[Oprah Winfrey]

No, I would not. No. There's an old song that Maya used to sing. She used to say, I wouldn't take nothing for my journey now for my journey now for my journey now I wouldn't take nothing for My journey. Now, I wouldn't take nothing for that journey, because every piece of it, even the, you know, sexual abuse, the physical abuse, the feeling alone, the feeling isolated, the feeling that nobody cared, has created a deeper sense of empathy in me for other people. I mean, I would not have had the.

[David Begnaud]

I so agree.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wouldn't you agree? You just wouldn't have. I mean, look at. Look at the stories that you do around the world here.

[David Begnaud]

It's why I am where I am today.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It's why it's absolutely.

[David Begnaud]

I didn't graduate from an Ivy League college. I didn't have a famous last name.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Right.

[David Begnaud]

I had. I turn. I always say Oprah. I have a. I have a bachelor's degree in general studies and a PhD in pain.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh.

[David Begnaud]

And that pain is what has allowed me to sit at tables like this one with Oprah Winfrey.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh, my gosh. But isn't it true that nothing is wasted? Not a damn thing, not one thing is wasted.

[David Begnaud]

I wouldn't want to replay it again.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

But I would not erase it. Because if you erase that, you erase this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know Sidney Poitier and I used to have this conversation all the time. Oh, I did. I love him. About how you change one thing. You change one thing and you throw the whole thing off course.

[David Begnaud]

Amen.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. You change one thing.

[David Begnaud]

Amen.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. And so, you know, my being, you know, abused as a kid and all that I endured because of that, the secrecy and the, you know, the shame and the feeling of betrayal and all of that has really helped me and deepened me as a human being in understanding what that feels like for other people. And it has brought about compassion in ways that I would never have had it. I just wouldn't have had it. You just wouldn't have. You wouldn't have known.

[David Begnaud]

I will tell you what I've to. We're not gonna do quotes. Cause you've already heard them. They're your quotes. So I'm gonna say to you what I say to everybody. Okay?

[Oprah Winfrey]

What?

[David Begnaud]

I was 18 years old. I was in my underwear, was Lafayette, Louisiana. And I was running around the live your best life season of the Oprah show. And I was a closeted gay kid. And so there were jib shots going through the garden and pastel colors. And I remember thinking myself by myself. This is the gayest shit I ever seen. And by the end of the episode, I cried, clapped, jumped up and down and run around in the apartment. And at 4 o' clock every day, from that day forward, it became my church. It became the place that was safe. It became the place where I heard self help things that I had never heard. And it became the place where I saw the window to a world that I wanted to pursue, really. So I just want you to know that.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Oh my gosh, can you tell me this? Because I often wonder and I don't know if I've ever had this and if it's improper, then let's take it out. But what's it like to know you're gay and have to hide that? What's that like? Are you always wondering somebody's gonna see it or think it?

[David Begnaud]

This is probably going to surprise you. I was okay living in the closet for the rest of my life, really. Because the dream of being who people thought I couldn't be was more important to me than living authentically as a gay man. So I was happy to put that away. Remember, I had never seen a gay man on national telev until Anderson Cooper said I'm gay. I had never seen a gay man. So I was like, it's okay as long as I can be a story. I mean, I dreamed of that. I used to watch the six o' clock news.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But you were saying earlier though, that kids called you, you know, the worst names. All the worst names.

[David Begnaud]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So if they're calling you those names and you believe that you are gay. So do you believe you are the names that they're calling you?

[David Begnaud]

No, no, I knew better. And I don't know why I didn't go into drugs and alcohol or try to take my own life. I just had a sense of belief in myself when. When nobody believed in me. I mean, I was the kid in the corner of the room. Which is why when I walk into a room, I often gravitate to the person in the corner. Yeah, right. But for whatever reason, Oprah, I think based on a faith in my family, I knew that I wasn't. I wasn't what they said. Yeah, I knew that. And I often say if I wrote a book, it would be called How Television Saved Me From Myself. Because when I wound up on television at 18 years old, the same kids who bullied me, their mothers and fathers would come and say, did you see that beg? No boy on television. Wow, he's good. And it changed the conversation at school from that fag to, oh, he's on television. And so television for me was a lifesaver before it ever became true journalism. It's rescued because it changed the conversation from fag and freak show to oh,

[Oprah Winfrey]

honey, he's on tv.

[David Begnaud]

Television.

[Oprah Winfrey]

He's on tv.

[David Begnaud]

That's impressive.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

I got to finally be impressive.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But did your family know that you were gay?

[David Begnaud]

My mother, at two years old, asked her friends, David walks around in my yellow canary high heel shoes. Do you think, you know, do you think he's gay? And they say, Sid, he's 2 years old. They're bright colored shoes. Like, why? You know that song by Alabama, the country band called Mama Knows?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

My mama always knew.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

And I wish I could have opened up to her, but I didn't. And it caused a fractured relationship. We're close and we're wonderful, but I could never open up to them. So I would go home and everything was. I lived a lie. Everything was perfect and good. How are you doing?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Great.

[David Begnaud]

I'm great. But it was awful and it was tormenting. And so what happened was, at 18 years old, I had a teacher who said, what are you running from?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Whoa.

[David Begnaud]

What are you running from? And she looked at me. I told her my whole story, and she said, that's all fine, but you have to change your roadmap because if you keep driving down those same roads, you not going to get out of this fortress that you built around yourself.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Was she a gay teacher?

[David Begnaud]

No.

[Oprah Winfrey]

No.

[David Begnaud]

Straight as can be.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Straight as could be.

[David Begnaud]

Straight as can be.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Interesting. Interesting. So who was the person who believed in.

[David Begnaud]

And you know what I heard? It's the book you and the doctor wrote. What I heard was in that moment, what I heard was not, what's wrong with you?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yes.

[David Begnaud]

I heard her say, what happened?

[Oprah Winfrey]

What happened to you?

[David Begnaud]

And then all of a sudden, it was like. And it came out, wow. So. And I don't have any attachment to the pain and the trauma anymore. Anymore, Right?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah.

[David Begnaud]

That trauma ended up becoming my testimony.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah. Ah, yeah, that's right. You turned that into a testimony. I love it.

[David Begnaud]

So from the bottom of my heart.

[Oprah Winfrey]

All right. Mine to yours.

[David Begnaud]

Thank you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you, thank you. I'm Oprah Winfrey, and the person who believed in me was Eugene Abraham.

[David Begnaud]

This show was created by me, David Begno. Our executive producers are Ellen Rockamora and Olivier Delfoss. Our associate producer is Griffin Hamilton. Our booker is Sully Block. Director of photography is Foster Parks. Our theme music was created by Slipstream, post production and edit done by Long Wave Digital. This podcast was brought to you by our friends at Canva. If you're interested in more stories about people doing good in this world, go sign up for our free newsletter at www.thedogoodcrew.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Com.