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- [00:00]
A
This is one of the biggest student loan rewrites we have seen in years.
- [00:04]
B
So graduate school used to be able to borrow up to the full cost of attendance, whatever the number was set by the college. I think we can all agree that's a little crazy that a college could just throw out a number and say tuition is $80,000. Do you know what's a guaranteed return on your investment? Having that kid go to work at Walmart, Target, Chick fil, a Starbucks. 50% of Americans qualify for total or partial loan forgiveness. And this is for federal student loans. Save until it hurts is the best advice I've ever received. That $20 at 18 years old, by the time you're 30 or 40, that $20 is worth $2,000. And it's a really big deal. Wealth means the ability to do what you want to do, when you want to do it.
- [00:53]
A
What's up everybody and welcome to the Personal Finance Podcast. I'm your host, Andrew, founder of Master Money. And today on the Personal Finance Podcast, we're diving into how to master your student loans in 2026 with Robert Farrington. If you guys have any questions, make sure you join the Master Money newsletter by going to MasterMoney Co newsletter. And don't forget to follow us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube or your favorite podcast player. And if you're getting value out of this show, consider leaving a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or that favorite podcast player. Now, if you've ever taken out a student loan plan to take one out, or you've got kids who might one day go to college, I want you to listen very carefully to this episode because on July 1, the entire federal student loan system quietly changes. There's going to be fewer repayment options, there's going to be tighter borrowing limits. And graduate plus loans, those are gone. And parent plus loans lose some of the biggest protections. So some of the most popular plans that people rely on today, like Save or Pay or ICR won't work the same way anymore for new borrowers. And forgiveness is taxable again. And if you miss certain deadlines, you could permanently lose access to better repayment or PSLF plans. So this is one of the biggest student loan rewrites we have seen in years. And what the government is doing is they are trying to simplify some of these plans. So today I brought on Robert Farrington from the College Investor, who is one of the most trusted voices in student loans to break down exactly what's changing, who it impacts, why these deadlines matter and what families, parents and borrowers should be doing now, not later on in 2026 when it's too late. So if student loans touch your life in any way, or you are trying to think about what do I need to do with these student loans? What changes do I need to make, then this episode is for you. So without further ado, let's welcome Robert to the Personal Finance Podcast. So you've heard me talk about Bilt as the loyalty program that allows you to earn points on rent wherever you live. And they just leveled up even more. As of 2026, homeowners can also earn up to 1.25x points on their mortgage payments. This is thanks to Bilt's three new credit cards, the Palladium card, the Obsidian card, and the Blue card. All three can turn your housing payments, rent or mortgage into flexible rewards. So you can choose the card that fits your lifestyle without missing out on points and exclusive benefits and bill points. They can be redeemed at top airlines and hotels, Amazon.com purchases, future rent payments and more. And built points have also been ranked by top publications as the industry's most valuable point currency. Your housing payment is already your biggest expense. Make it your most rewarding. Find the card that fits your lifestyle and apply today at joinbuilt.compfp that's J O I N bilt.compfp and make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Terms and limitations apply subject to approval and eligibility. Built cards are issued by column in a Member FDIC pursuant to license from MasterCard International, Inc. Workplace chaos. You know the feeling. Deadlines are stacking up, emails are flying, and then someone on your team gives notice. That's when you think this is a job for Sponsored Jobs when you need the right hire fast. Indeed Sponsored Jobs helps your post stand out and reach quality candidates instead of hoping the right people see your listing. Sponsored Jobs boosted in search results so you can match with candidates who meets your specific criteria like skills, certifications or locations. And you only pay for results. And here's something wild in the minute I've been talking to you. Companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. That is real momentum. Sponsored Job posts directly on indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non sponsored Jobs. So when the pressure's on and you need someone who can actually move the needle, this isn't your job. It's the job of Sponsored Jobs. So spend less time searching and more time interviewing candidates who can Check all your boxes and listeners. This show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Need to hire. This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. So, Robert, welcome to the Personal Finance Podcast.
- [05:31]
B
Hey, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
- [05:34]
A
I'm really excited to have you here as well because we're going to be talking about a big topic and there are a lot of current event changes that are happening. But I also want to kind of talk through this dynamic of what is happening with student loans. I want to talk a little bit about federal aid and some of the aid stuff that we're going to be talking through here today. And we're also going to answer a bunch of questions just from listeners that I think are going to be really, really valuable to a lot of people listening right now. Before we dive in, I want you to kind of talk about, you know, your background and some of the stuff that you have done, especially as you are the go to when it comes to, you know, student loans and thinking through college and investing and those types of things. So I want you to kind of talk through your background and then we'll get started into some of the stuff that we're going to be talking through today.
- [06:13]
B
Yeah, sounds great. So I am the unintentional student loan guy, but student loans has been my life for almost the last 20 years. I really wanted to talk about building wealth and you investing and making money, which is all the fun stuff. But like many of us, I had my own student loans and everyone's like, yeah, Robert, like investing's great, but I have all this student loan debt and I don't have any idea what to do with it and what's going on. And this was way before there was a student loan crisis. This was way before the media was talking about it. So what does any good journalist do is I started writing about it and those were some of my very first viral articles back in like 2009, 2010, and people were like, thank you so much for shining light on this. No one's talking about it. So I really went hard, learned all I could learn about student loan debt. And here we are, fast forward 15 years and we have a team. Some of them are like super well known. We testify before Congress. One of our big wins was we were cited by The Supreme Court a couple years ago on our student loan debt topics, like being a footnote in a Supreme Court brief is kind of cool. So we know student loans, we know financial aid, we know paying for college. And this is kind of what we do is that intersection of education and money, which I don't think people really realize how much education and money intersect, but they do. And there's a lot of nuance to it.
- [07:30]
A
That is why I wanted to have you on, because I know every time I have a question about student loans, I dive into your site first because you guys have all the information and to be, you know, cited in Congress is just absolutely incredible in terms of like, you know, credibility and everything that you guys do. So I'm really, really excited for this. Now one big thing I want to talk about today is I get loads of questions from listeners on a lot of the student loan changes. A lot of people are struggling and trying to figure out what they need to do next when it comes to their student loans. And they want to understand what is happening here. I think a lot of people are sick and tired of changes happening every couple of years. And so there's again changes happening over the course of the next couple of months. So starting in July, a lot of this stuff is going to happen. And you know, there's new federal student loan borrowers will only have two repayment options. Can you kind of talk about these repayment options and what is happening here in July? Sure.
- [08:18]
B
I think it's really important for borrowers to understand where they're at in this process. So if you already have student loans, you're going to have one set of rules. And if you are brand new to student loans, you're going to have a new set of rules that operate starting July 1st. The big change is that the student loan program is simplifying. And I know it sounds crazy because we just said how confusing it is, but we are going down to two options. You're going to have the standard repayment plan. And the standard repayment plan will pay off your student loan in full over the period of time between 10 and 20 years, depending on your loan balance. And then the other plan is income based. It's called the repayment Assistance plan or WRAP plan. And the WRAP plan will set your monthly student loan payment between $10 a month to up to 10% of your adjusted gross income. If you make over $100,000 a year and it kind of stair steps up as you earn more money, those will be the two options available to new Borrowers. Now, if you already have student loans, your options are the same that you have today with a few asterisks. The asterisks are that almost all the existing student loan income driven repayment plans are being eliminated. So the SAVE plans eliminated, the income contingent repayment plans eliminated, the Pay as you earn plans eliminated. You will only have access to standard IBR income based repayment. Or you could opt into this new WRAP plan that we just talked about. So you're kind of going down to three options if you're an existing borrower and if you're a new borrower, you'll just have the two options.
- [09:58]
A
So we're looking at some, you know, these different options here. And you can kind of see, well, if you have an existing student loan plan and you're trying to think through, well, what do I need to kind of figure out next? Are there steps that you think people should be taking? If they have an existing plan right now, do they need to make changes and adjustments or do they need to kind of just wait and see what is going to happen? What do you think they need to do currently if they have a plan right now?
- [10:18]
B
So if you have student loans right now, there's also two buckets of people that have student loans right now. There are those that are in repayment. And so you're on IBR Pay as yous Earn ICR and you're making monthly payments on your student loans right now. You don't have to take any immediate action, but you have to realize that ICR and Pay as you Earn are phasing out in the next two years. And you will have to make a choice. You can make that choice today, you can make that choice in two years. But you're going to have to either change to IBR or that new repayment assistance plan we just talked about. Now, the other bucket of student loan borrowers, there's about 7 million of them are in the save forbearance. So if you remember, the SAVE plan was the Biden administration's attempt to reform student loans and it got blocked by the courts. And so there's 7 million Americans that are not paying on their student loans because they are in forbearance due to this litigation. Now we know SAVE is dead. It's not coming back. It's been stopped by the courts, it's been overturned by Congress. Like it's dead. The only thing we don't know is when they're gonna like force you out the door. Okay, Right. But I think I could say this for many people, the government is going to force you out the door, but it might not be the best place for you to go because they don't always make the best decision for you. And so if you are one of these 7 million people in SAVE, I really encourage you to go run your numbers, right? I want you to go look and see what your IBR payment would be at this moment in time. And I want you to go see what your future wrap payment would be if you wanted to wait until July when the wrap plan comes out, and then decide which one's a lower repayment. If IBR is the lower repayment for you, you should just get on it and get moving so that you have the lower repayment plan option. I know it sucks. You gotta start paying those student loans again. But it's gonna happen. And the question is, are you gonna be the one that controls what payment you have or are you gonna let the government decide for you?
- [12:14]
A
And I think that's the key overall is you got to focus on those things that you can control and you got to really take action towards those because you being able to just not be paying your student loans going forward is probably not an option anymore, just as. As Robert's saying. And so we really need to focus on those areas that we can control, because that's a big question I get. A lot of people are saying, hey, they're in forbearance right now or they, they don't have to pay anything on their student loans currently and they don't know what to do. They're saying to themselves, hey, do I take this extra money and just put it aside? Do I think about, you know, investing these dollars and start to put them towards my student loans? There's a bunch of different questions that we always get. And so that's a big, big key, I think, for most people out there is to understand the different things. So for existing borrowers, there are deadlines attached to these older payment plans that, you know, we've kind of talked through some of those often. A lot of these are happening in 2028 is when the deadline is, is what it looks like for most of these. So when we look at this here, are there any, you know, shifts that you think people need to think through when it comes to, you know, the annual and lifetime loan caps? So the biggest new, newer borrowers right now is that there's tighter annual and lifetime borrowing limits. But what's changing with federal loan caps and why is this such a big deal?
- [13:21]
B
Well, first off, I Think it's important to remember that nothing is really changing for undergraduates. So, fun fact. Undergraduates have had the same loan caps since 2008, right? Like, they haven't changed in almost like 15 years right now here we go. Up to the big changes are Parent Plus Loans. So because these undergraduate loan caps haven't changed, well, they're var low. So a lot of parents end up having to borrow to supplement. And Parent plus loans are being capped at $20,000 a year or $65,000 in total per student. So if you got two kids, you get that for each loan cap. But that could be challenging because, let's be honest, school is getting very, very expensive, and parents might want to look beyond that. There's also other changes to Parent plus loans on the repayment plan front, which we'll probably talk about in a minute. But it's not just the lo when it comes to graduate school, there are new loan caps for graduate school as well. So graduate school used to be able to borrow up to the full cost of attendance, whatever the number was that was set by the college, which I think we can all kind of agree. That's a little crazy that a college could just throw out a number and say, we're going to say tuition is $80,000, and the government's like, cool, here, just take it. I mean, I get it that we need these professions, but that's also a little insane to me. So there are new caps on graduate school. And if you're going graduate designated schools, which is typically master's degrees, you can borrow 20,500 per year or up to a hundred thousand dollars in aggregate. If you're going to professional schools, which is typically medical school, dental school, law school, you could borrow $50,000 a year or up to $200,000 aggregate. So it really kind of depends on what that designation is. And I know there's a lot of people that are frustrated because they believe that some programs should be designated professional, some should be graduate, and they're not happy about it. But at the same time, this is kind of designed to protect you based on not being able to borrow huge amounts of debt that you might not be able to pay back. Agree or disagree, that's kind of where it's going.
- [15:35]
A
And that's exactly. It just seems like every. Every step of the way, what their goal is is to try to simplify this as much as possible. And seemingly it is one of those things where when consolidation happens, it may just kind of take some of those nuances out, which Seems like it would frustrate some people, especially if they're in those current programs. I get it. So also we have the Parent plus loans, which you've kind of talked about there, and they're facing some of those biggest changes overall, especially around that income driven repayment plan like we talked about. What's changing for some of the new parent plus loans after July 1? Is there anything big that people need to note?
- [16:06]
B
Yes. So the biggest thing with Parent plus loans is starting July 1, 2026, parents can only repay Parent plus loans using the standard repayment plan. And you might not think that's a big deal, but it cuts off that income driven repayment plan option, which could be helpful to have a lower payment. But it also does something in addition to that is because there's no income driven repayment plan, you don't get access to public service loan forgiveness anymore. So if you're a parent that might be a teacher and you thought that you could work as a teacher for 10 more years and get that loan forgiven, that pathway will no longer be there after July 1st of 2026. So this is where it's really confusing for a lot of parents because let's say you have a kid in college, you are grandfathered on the borrowing limits for up to three more academic years. You don't have to do that new $20,000 cap. You can borrow uncapped. But if you borrow a loan after July 1, you will be subject to the new repayment plan rules. And so the caps and the repayment plan rules kind of operate separately. And you have to realize that if you borrow a student loan July 1st of 2026, as a parent borrower, you will only have access to standard repayment and no access to loan forgiveness programs like public service loan forgiveness.
- [17:29]
A
That's interesting because I think, I wonder if they're seeing, and you may know this already, I wonder if they're seeing an increase in some of the Parent plus plans of loans being taken out because they have more flexibility or access to some of these other repayment options.
- [17:41]
B
Well, I'll say that a lot of these changes, both on the Parent plus side and on the graduate side, come from this idea of privatizing student lo. So, no, the government's not selling the student loan portfolio. They're not doing that. But what they are doing is they are pushing the best, quote, unquote borrowers to the private market. So Parent plus loans are actually the only profitable loan in the student loan portfolio. Every other student loan loses the federal government money except for Parent plus loans. Because parents are typically borrowing these loans when they're 40, 50, 60 years old, mid or late career, they know their earnings, they repay their debt before retirement, they're profitable. So if you wanted to privatize the best loans, what do you do? You make them so unbeneficial that private loans look more beneficial. And that's exactly what they're doing. Because I am now encouraging parents to look at your private student loan rates because there's no income driven repayment plan anymore. There's no loan forgiveness anymore. So what's the thing you're shopping on? You're shopping on interest rate. And if you're a well qualified parent, a private student loan is going to be a better option for, for you moving forward after July 1st.
- [18:55]
A
And that makes a ton of sense. And it seems like that's just the direction they're going in. Which is, which is a huge, huge change I think for a lot of folks that are utilizing the Parent plus loans. So another subtle change. People might miss this if, you know, the loan limits will depend on their enrollment status. And so this is one where. How does borrowing change for students who are enrolled less than full time? What are the changes that are happening there?
- [19:15]
B
Yeah, so we kind of talked about that undergraduate loan limit, right? 5,500 for a freshman, 6,500 sophomore, 7,500 junior, senior. Well, if you're only half time, you're only going to get half that amount. They will now reduce the amount you can borrow based on your enrollment status. So you can't just take half your courses and expect to get that full student loan amount moving forward. And now I can't. There's a whole like chart of how much they prorate it based on your credit hours. But you just have to realize it will not be the full amount if you're not taking the full credit hours. Hours.
- [19:49]
A
That makes complete sense. And I think that's one of those things too that we gotta like, you just gotta understand the situation and then you'll be able to kind of make your decisions based on that. So these are some of the big changes that are happening, I guess, over the course of the next couple of months. Is there anything else we missed that you think we need to hit on before we. I want to dive into some of the, the thought process here on, you know, going out and getting student aid, going out and getting student loans. I want to talk through some of that as well. But is there any other big changes that you can think of that we need to hit on here?
- [20:15]
B
No, I think you nailed it. I think the big thing is, is if you're a parent plus loan borrower and you have existing parent plus loans and you want to maintain access to income driven repayment plans, this is like another nuanced area, but there's about a million of them out there. You need to consolidate your student loans by March and you need to enroll in an income driven repayment plan by June so that you can maintain this access to income driven repayment and public service loan forgiveness. It's also essential that you never borrow a federal loan again, only go private from there on out. But that would at least preserve your existing student loans to have access to income driven repayment and public service loan forgiveness. If that's important to you, perfect.
- [20:58]
A
And I think that is the big key overall. So make sure you understand your situation and what kind of is happening over the course of the next couple of months. And again, Robert's site is such a great wealth of information of even the updates and the news that are happening day to day over at the College Investor. So make sure that you guys are checking that out because the update over there are absolutely fantastic. Now next, I want to talk about a couple of different things. First, I want to talk about student aid. But in addition, I also want to think through if there are new borrowers out there who are entering the student loan market, or maybe their parents are listening right now and they want to think through, well, what do I need to be doing in order to help pay for college. But in addition, I want to think through what aid is available. I want to kind of talk through this process. So the big thing for me is that I wish when I went to college I, you know, looked for more student aid. I wish I went out and looked for more grants or whatever else was available to me at that given time. I didn't work hard at it. And honestly, I wish I would have spent, you know, hours and hours during my senior year just trying to figure out what kind of aid I could have gotten. So if someone is thinking through this process between student loans and student aid, they know they're not going to have enough cash on hand before they actually go out and start, you know, going to college. And so they know they need some sort of help. What would you suggest they do? Would you suggest the order of operations is to first look at or look for grants or, or student aid or whatever's available to them, them and. Or second, would you tell them to kind of look at what student Loan options are there or do you do both the same time? How do you kind of think about that overall?
- [22:21]
B
Yeah, so it really starts actually one step before that is understanding what the price of these colleges are. A lot of parents are flying blind into the decision on prices. And college can be very expensive, college can be free, college could be anywhere in between based on a variety of factors, where you go to school, what your income is, whatnot. So I really encourage parents to understand the real costs that you're going to pay. We actually just did a survey on this of how much families actually pay for College. And about 70% of all Americans pay between 20,000 and $75,000 in total for a bachelor's degree. So remember, even if you're going to get free like tuition, you still might be into it for $10,000 over four years just because of the books and the supplies and all the different things. You also have to realize that college costs are rising 3 to 7% a year. So what you start as as a freshman could be a lot less than what you're finishing. As for a senior, like it could be like a $10,000 a year difference. It can get really expensive. So please, please, please know the college costs. Once you kind of know the college costs, what are you going to get for aid? The biggest buckets of aid money come from the universities themselves. These are the institutional grants and scholarships. And you might see like the headlines like I think you know what, Harvard just made tuition free for families that make under $250,000 and MIT and things like that, those are going to be the biggest buckets of aid. They come from the college. After that, you do have other federal aid. So you fill out the fafsa, you get access to the Pell Grant. But The Pell Grant's $7,000 a year. It's not a lot. You get access to some other certain grants like fseog. Some states also have grants. So I'm in California. California has a Cal Grant. You know, again, they a lot. But you can keep stacking these grants, that's like 4,000 bucks or so. And then you get to student loans. You could also apply to private scholarships. Right, But I want to remind families that private scholarships typically are 1,000, $2,000. They're not typically renewable. It's like a one time thing. They're not necessarily going to fund your college. I like to encourage families. Do you know what's a guaranteed return on your investment? Having that kid go to work at Walmart, Target, Chick Fil, a Starbucks, I guarantee you your high schooler could make a thousand dol dollars a month and do that every single month consistently for 10 months. And that's going to be a more guaranteed return than spending five or six hours a week applying to scholarships that are almost like a lottery. And you never know what you're going to get. So I encourage you to apply if there's definitely, especially a scholarship that matches. Like if your kid is doing golf or your kid, you know, you're the child of a union employee and like the union's offering it in your area. Like if it's a very niche scholarship that you know you're going to have a really, really good for, apply for it. But I would rather see your kid go work, save and put a bunch of money into a savings account that they could use to pay for it. It's a more guaranteed return on investment. But at the end of the day, it all comes back to price. I want to remind families there are 4,000 colleges in America. There's 4,000 of them. The average price of tuition is $10,000 a year. So you can take this and do some math in your head and realize half or above half or below, when you're seeing $70,000 a year sticker prices at like Vassar and whatever, these really private elite schools, that's not the norm. There are very cost effective ways to get a college degree. And there are also things to really think about, like what some of my favorites right now are lowering your time in college. We talk a lot about scholarships, but what about finishing college in three years that automatically reduces your price by 25%. And how do you do AP classes, dual enrollment in high school, taking the CLEP exam, getting those college credits in advance. So okay, you do go to a $30,000 a year school, but if you're only doing it for three years, that's a lot better than doing it for four years. Right. Like there are options, you just have to think through them.
- [26:38]
A
Exactly. And I think if you come in with a plan like that, if you come in with an idea of exactly how you want to attack this, I think that's the biggest thing because the cost of college is so expensive. Let me give everybody example. So for example, in the state of Florida where I live, there's a bunch of different colleges here that are in state. So there's University of Florida, there's Florida State, which is where I went. There's the University of Miami, there's those three where you're looking at two in state schools, University of Florida and Florida State. And then you have University of Miami, which is private. Miami is $70,000 per year where the other two schools are going to be closer to that average rate overall in making this choice up front and deciding which one you want to go to where honestly all three of those colleges would probably get you the same result. And in fact the in state school might get you a better result than the University of Miam. And I'm just saying that because I don't like the Miami football team. But anyways, that's one of those things where overall you could think through and say to yourself honestly this is where all of this is going to be something. If you make a decision, you really need to make a decision on what is best for, for you and your family and, and kind of thinking through that because if you're taking out a $70,000 loan every single year and it is not really that high of a return on investment, maybe your major doesn't get you a high paying job, well then you got yourself debt that you're going to be paying off for a very long period of time.
- [27:48]
B
Time.
- [27:48]
A
And so just making that slight adjustment is great. And I love Robert's note on thinking about these AP classes and kind of accelerating that path, reducing it down to three years because that is something most people don't think about. And if you go out and do that, that can save you again like you said, 25%. I think that's just a very, very powerful lesson for a lot of people out there. What about even going towards things like community college? Could you do community college for two years and then do in state college? I mean there's ways to reduce these costs that are really, really, really important that I think most people need to think through.
- [28:17]
B
I love community college as an option especially because did you know in about 30 states community college is free for one to two years for everybody? I want to say, like there's no income limit. I want Minneapolis, it could be, it's one of the M states. I want to say it's mini Minnesota. They have a free community college for everybody. Doesn't matter if you're a millionaire or low income or whatnot. You can go to community college for free. Like it's a fantastic option. Because look, English 101 that you have to take as a freshman is going to be. You're going to read same Shakespeare. Whether you go to an elite private school and spend 70,000 or whether you go to a community college and spend like 300 bucks like you're doing the same thing like get those college credits knocked out. Transfer. It's a fantastic option. I did want to say one thing though about your University of Miami and private schools. Don't sleep on the private schools guys. Apply. Put a few on your list. Because private schools can be very flexible when it comes to financial aid. So yeah, they have these crazy high sticker prices. Prices. But I also kind of view them like the used car sales lot where like they discount and they work all these figures and you might not pay that. Where as you go to a state school estates are very structured because of state laws. Like they can only give you this grant and this scholarship and if you meet this criteria that's set in law by the legislature, like they're not going to be flexible with financial aid. Whereas the private school, they're probably private. They literally can pull all the levers they want if they have the ability and they have the money to. To give you more financial aid dollars. So just don't sleep on them. Put them on your list. But realize that you need to have those conversations because I've talked to a lot of high schoolers and a lot of their parents and you might know this just from being in the personal finance space. A lot of families do not have money conversations that are transparent.
- [30:08]
A
Right.
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B
And by the time you're in high school, you need to be very transparent about the finances. Especially when it comes to college. Like your senior and your junior and really your freshman should know, like there is a 529 plan or college savings account for you. This is how much is in it. This is how much we could afford to pay. We have a How much student loan debt can you afford? Calculator on the college investor. And I love to sit down. As families, you put in all your loans. This is what loan repayment looks like. If you want to borrow $40,000 a year. Year. This is what it looks like when you're 22 and you have to start repaying it. How do you feel about paying for rent and groceries and transportation and $1,000 student loan payment? Like, it starts becoming very eye opening and you need to have these transparent conversations about money. Because where kids get the most hurt and where families get the most damaged is when they're not transparent. They get accepted to one of these schools that's $40,000 a year. And then mom and dad are like, like, we can't afford it. And you. That's really crushing. Whereas if you didn't have that, if you did have that conversation and there was very clear expectations before. It's not going to be like so morally like just destroy a child.
- [31:23]
A
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That's a huge thing to know is to have those conversations early enough and I think Robert's right to have it as early as, you know, their freshman year of high school so they understand as they're going through each and every single one of these years, you know, this is the cost that is associated with this and either we need to have a plan in place in order to, to pay for this college and, or we need to ensure that when I get accepted to some of these schools, I know that I'm either going to have to get a bunch of scholarships or grants here in order to go there or there's going to be a huge mountain of student loan debt and I, I need to understand the repercussions of that. And that's a huge point for sure. And I love the note of. Have you ever seen people kind of go in and maybe you have folks who, who you've talked to in the past to some of these private schools and kind of negotiated that price down to even lower than possibly an in state school. Or is there any examples of that that you've seen in the past where someone has maybe got just enough grants where it's completely free because they went to private school and there was just enough going on there where it made sense for them to do that all the time?
- [36:59]
B
All the time. The private schools. I would tell you you have a better chance of paying nothing at a private school than you do at a state school by, by and large. So like I said, don't sleep on the private schools, especially if you are in this lower middle income America. So not low income, but you're like middle income America where it's like you're right above all the federal poverty line guidelines and you feel like you're doing pretty good but like, because you're just there, you probably don't have a big nest egg yet and you're trying to save for retirement. Those are the ones that get hurt the most at state schools because, because you cut, you miss all those poverty guideline cutoffs. But those are the ones that can also get the most aid at private schools because you're not at the elite level where they're trying to cut you off yet. Like, and so you have more of a, more of a chance to get more financial aid dollars.
- [37:49]
A
I love that. I think that's really, really something that should be in most people's plans is just to have some of those in your arsenal, try to get some of those prices down, negotiate as much as you can, but also just try to get as many of those grants as possible. And if you can get to a point where you're not paying as much for college and you're just doing maybe, maybe it's just lodging or food or whatever else, that's going to be a much better situation for most people. Now as we think through this. And I have to ask you this on the show because I think it's really important. We have a lot of parents who listen to this show and folks who maybe they even have younger kids and they're thinking about college now and they're thinking about saving for college, for their future. What is your favorite way to kind of think about saving for college when it comes to, to, you know, long term? Is it the 529 plan or are there other ways that you think that younger parents should think about saving for College?
- [38:32]
B
So the 529 plan is still the best account to save for education dollars. I kind of view them as what's the purpose? So if the purpose is education, 529plan is kind of the best tool in the toolbox for that. If you want more of a broad, you know, open ended, you do have the UGMA account. As we're recording this. The Trump accounts just launched. Launched. I'm not as a huge fan of it, but I will always tell you to get your free money. So if you've had a baby born, get your Trump account free money. If you have an employer that's contributing as one of these sponsored employers, get your free money. But again, I think it's really the best tool for saving for education is still the 529 plan if education is the primary goal.
- [39:18]
A
Exactly. And I think that's the one that for most people out there, I think some of the benefits for me even as, as of late with Secure Act 2.0 where you could roll in, you know, 35,000 dol into a Roth, there's a lot of exit plans too that you can have there that I think that are very, very helpful. And so that's, that's kind of the route that most people that listen to this show take when they're saving their education dollars is towards that. But that's perfect. Awesome. So also, as we start to go through this, I want to shift gears to a couple of questions that we have just from some of our listeners and some of the folks in Master Money Academy too, that sent in some questions that I want to ask you. Robert. So these are going to be ones that will be kind of situational, and I think it's going to be really beneficial for most people out there. So the first one is from Kimberly. Do I try to pay them off as fast as I can or do I pay the minimum amount over the duration of pretty much my life? And what about the best interest rate? So she's basically asking, should I try to pay off my student loans as fast as possible? How should she think about that interest rate and all those different things?
- [40:12]
B
So this is a great question. And this is where student loans operate differently than any other type of debt. And that student loans is a 5050 conversation. And I don't know Kimberly's full financial sit, but let's just talk about the stats. 50% of Americans with federal student loans should pay them off as aggressively as possible. Debt snowball, whatever your favorite method is, just eliminate them. But then there's 50% of Americans that know you should put as little as possible to your student loans. And the reason is is 50% of Americans qualify for total or partial loan forgiveness. And this is for federal student loans. It could also be your private student loans, depending on where you work. And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, loan forgiveness. I thought like some of this was stopped. And it's like, no. There are over 80 ways to get student loan forgiveness right now in America. There's very popular programs. We talked about public service loan forgiveness at the top of the show. There's teacher loan forgiveness. There is time based loan forgiveness if you're on an income driven repayment plan for a certain period of time. Almost every State has like 3 to 5 student loan forgiveness programs in your state. A lot of them are career based, but some states offer student loan forgiveness for buying a house in the state. Maryland has a home buyer program. You buy a house in Maryland, they'll roll your student loans into it at like a 0% interest rate and pay them off. If you work in STEM in Maine, if you do certain things in Kansas, I think it's another home buyer program. There's just every state's got a bunch of student loan for years programs. Then you have employer repayment assistance programs. Almost all the Fortune 500 companies offer student loan repayment assistance as an employer benefit these days. So if you go work for one of these large employers, they'll pay $5,000 a year to your student, student loans. So if you're one of the 50% where you get some type of total or partial loan forgiveness, no, you do not pay extra on your student loans. You pay as little as legally possible and you maximize the free money that goes into your student loans. A lot of people worry about the interest on their student loans. They do. But when it comes to the math of repayment, student loan interest only makes up about 20 to 30% of the total dollars you repay on a student loan over the life of. Of the loan. That's just the math. Student loan interest is generally very low. If you took a student loan in 2020, the interest rate would be 2.69%. Something outrageous. Even today, it's 6%. It's lower than a mortgage. It's lower than other types of debt you're going to get. It's not anything that you should be fearful of. And honestly, I don't even think about it. And I do student loan stuff every single day. Student loan interest, like just delete it as a worry from your mind.
- [42:50]
A
Mind, exactly. And I think honestly for, for most people out there is if you do have that forgiveness available, just take advantage of that as much as possible. And then, you know, take those dollars and do something else with them. Invest them or whatever else you want to do, but take those dollars and kind of move them to a different location. Just let the forgiveness kind of work its magic on you here as you go through this. And I love that you even bringing up the corporate forgiveness, because I remember the first job I worked at, they had corporate forgiveness where they would pay a portion of your student loans. And it was such a great perk for a lot of folks out there. That was really, really helpful overall. The second one is from Velmer. So Velmer says, should I avoid student loans altogether if I'm sure I can manage college expenses with tuition reimbursements, grants, and some of my personal funds? Or is there advice to take advantage of student loans and invest the money to create a good debt scenario? P S. I'm also bad with money, so something that would be harder for me to spend would be a good investment. Thanks. And if you advance, if you don't
- [43:43]
B
have to take the student loans, don't take the student loans. I don't actually think there's any situation in life where the choice is pay cash or borrow debt. Just pay cash. That's phenomenal. I love that you get tuition reimbursement. So that's another employer benefit. And when we go back to the conversations of how do you pay for school? I love it. Go work at one of these big box retailers. They all offer tuition reimbursement programs. You could work part time and get like $2,000 to school. So just pay cash if you can pay the cash for it. Don't take on student loan debt.
- [44:16]
A
100 agree. And I think that is the, the big thing. If you have that option, never ever take on that debt. It's just not worth it. The next one is from Robert. Now Robert's got a situation that is about parent plus loans. So this would be good for folks who have that. And basically what he says was, I've got a weird situation, maybe, I don't know, but I have a parent plus loan and my two sisters are on the same account with me. So we all have access to each other's student loans. My question is, should we refinance to eliminate us all being on the same account? And are there advantages to leaving the parent plus loans as is the biggest disadvantage is when they, when they fall behind, I can only pay the minimum balance. And then what are the pros and cons to refinancing and which bank is the best in your opinion?
- [44:59]
B
So I, I think I'm reading this right because I see this a lot and because Robert says that he has parent plus loans with his two sisters, I actually think he's the student student and his sisters are also the student and the parent plus loan is the parents loan. And so I don't think this is Robert's loan at all. I think it's his parents loan. And so I have a very, very big beef with parent plus loans. I, I hate parent plus loans generally. But parent plus loans are the parents loan. The student has no legal obligation to the debt. So in Robert's situation and his sister's situation, those are actually his parents loans. They're not their theirs. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate kids paying their parents parent plus loans. And I hate it for a few reasons. Number one is the parent took the loan. It's their loan. But they have options like we just talked about earlier in the show. You could consolidate, get on income driven repayment plans. Parents are usually older. You have other forgiveness options that we don't think about as much with children because they're younger. But you have death and disability discharge your stu, you die, you get totally disabled. Disabled student loan is forgiven completely and it doesn't impact your estate. What I hate is when kids are 22 to 32, 42, that is when they need the most money. In their entire lives. Like literally, they're trying to start a family, they're trying to buy a house. Why are you as a parent sucking money out of the younger generation into the older generation? And then let's be honest, that someday you will die and the kids will probably get some something inheritance, house, the assets that you were paying off. So then when they're 50, all of a sudden that money goes right back to them. Like that doesn't help them at 50. They needed it at 22 so that they could start their lives. So one of my big philosophies is kids don't pay parent plus loans. The parents pay the parent plus loans and there's options for the parents to navigate it. And parents should not be asking their children to pay it. It's just bad estate planning and financial planning practice. Like your goal should be for your whole family unit to be wealthy, wealthier, not just the parents being wealthy or the kids being wealthy. The whole family unit should be wealthier. And you don't suck money from the kids to support the parents. Like. No, the parents should be supporting the kids. Like one of my philosophies.
- [47:22]
A
Yeah, exactly. It's. And I think it's a great way to think it through because parents really need to think through kind of the life cycle of this money and where it's going to end up. And if you think about, you know, you're going to hand it to them later on down the line when they could use it right now at the most important time where they could actually get, you know, the ball rolling. And I remember my first job, I was living paycheck to paycheck. I was just trying to get survive for the most part. And I think a lot of people are in that scenario. So.
- [47:43]
B
And I don't want, yeah, I was gonna say I don't want parents to be destitute here. But again, if you are low income or struggling, your student loan payment could be $0 a month on an income driven repayment plan. So like, why are we even talking about this? Again, there's options for you if it's a financial hardship and you shouldn't be asking your kids to help with that. As for refinancing, if you are in a financially stable spot and you are just looking to lower your interest rate, refinancing is a fine idea if you can save on interest on your student loan. There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to banks to refinance at. There is about a dozen of them. Sofi is one they have the best advertising, but that doesn't mean they have the best rate. What I like to say is go get three to five quotes, see who gives you the best rate based on your own credit and your own income. Income. And then, you know, go with the lowest rate. Don't just fall for marketing dollars. They're literally all the same. Like, it's just who can offer you the best at that moment in time.
- [48:41]
A
Exactly. This is where you really want to rate. Shop is definitely when you are looking at these loans and if you're going to refinance, that is the, the ultimate thing you want to do is making sure that you can find that lowest rate. The next one is from Lindsay, and this is perfect because this is along the same lines of what we were talking about when it comes to student loan forgiveness. But she said, if I qualify for public service loan forgiveness program and I'm almost seven years in, should I keep holding out for forgiveness? How should I best prepare for this process to go as smooth as possible once I hit all my qualifying payments?
- [49:10]
B
Yeah. So public service loan forgiveness is kind of the biggest and best student loan forgiveness program out there. And I know it got off to a rocky start and everyone was kind of like, oh, no. But over a million Americans have gotten their student loans forgiven with PSLF and it's about 150,000 a year now are ongoing and they're getting it. So. So yes, you're already seven years in. And as long as you're going to keep working in public service, you absolutely should finish the last three years because that is free money that's just wiped from your balance sheet. Think of it as a bonus almost. Don't think of it as debt going away, but say you have a $50,000 balance. Think of it as a $50,000 bonus. Like you just got all that money. That's awesome. I think the important thing to remember is public service loan forgiveness has four main criteria and you have to be very on top of it. Number one is having a direct student loan, which I'm sure you do. You've been doing this for seven years. Number two is being on a qualifying repayment plan. So with all the changes going on, there are really only two qualifying repayment plans going into the future. It is the income based repayment plan, IBR and the repayment assistance plan that's coming out in July. Those will be the two qualifying ones going into the future. You've been doing this for seven years, so the past ones do count. Ibr, ICR pay as you earn the save plan. But I want to tell you, Lindsey, the save forbearance this time when people's loans were paying paused, doesn't count. So if you're in the safe forbearance, get out of it and get back on ibr. I don't know if you really are or not, but you need to do that. Number three is certify your employment. You have to certify your employment, send it to your HR department. If you're a teacher, I don't know, make your principal sign it, get that signed. And then number four is you got to do it for 120 payments, 10 years, and then you get your loans forgiven. A lot of people that are struggling today are missing one of those steps. And a lot of it's paperwork errors. So it's like, don't let a paperwork issue block you from student loan forgiveness. Like, you can do this. You went to college. Like I know you can get it done.
- [51:10]
A
Exactly. I think that's great tips and I think overall that is a huge, huge deal to get that. So fantastic that she is, she's almost there, which is awesome. The last question that we have here is from Noah. So my question would be, what are the biggest tips for high student debt professional who are looking to build wealth while managing student loans?
- [51:28]
B
Well, I'm wondering if you also mean high income professionals because you're saying professionals and high wealth. But the big thing is, is create a plan. I recommend everyone create a plan. But guys, the plan can change. I also think we want plans that last for five to 10 years. And that's not how student loan debt works. So I want you to see what your income is and see what your student loan payment is this year. And then I want you to make a decision. Am I going, am I one of the 50% that are going to get forgiveness or am I one of the 50% that are to pay off my loans? And with that framework in mind, well, if you're going to get forgiveness, I want to find the lowest repayment plan possible. And maybe I could do some tricks to lower my payment again. Maybe I can contribute to a 403B or, you know, contribute to my HSA or my traditional IRA and lower my taxable income to lower my student loan payment. That's a great way to save for yourself and lower your student loan payment. But what if you're on the other side and you're just going to pay it off? Well, debt snowball, debt avalanche, whatever your mindset is, and start working that plan, and then you need to revisit this every year. There's no way around it. The student loan plans are changing. Your own income situation's changing. I just want you to look back at your own life five years ago and realize how different it's today. And then think about what it's going to be in five years. It's going to be very different in five years. It's okay to keep reevaluating and changing the plan as you go, but the framework is, is either maximize forgiveness or repay as fast as you can. That's kind of how it goes with student loans.
- [53:00]
A
Exactly. It's, it's kind of splitting it off and then building your plan based on which direction you're going to go. It's almost, I picture it as a flowchart in my mind. You kind of have to think about that, which is awesome. So awesome. And then, Robert, I'm going to give you a couple quick, rapid fire questions that we ask a lot of our guests before we wrap this up. So the first one is, what is the best money advice you've ever received?
- [53:19]
B
Save until it hurts. Hurts is the best money advice I've ever received. So, like, especially when you're young and there's really not a lot there, like you said, you're living paycheck to paycheck. That $20 at 18 years old that you can get into an investment account, it really hurts. But by the time you're 30 or 40, that $20 is worth $2,000. And it's a really big deal. And if you can keep doing that every single month over and over again, saving until it hurts, the power of compounding kind of takes over from there and it just puts you on the right track.
- [53:50]
A
Exactly. I always say save until you feel slightly uncomfortable. And that's kind of like the same little logic there, which is, which is awesome. The second one is what is the best book that you have read over the course of the last year?
- [54:01]
B
Of the last year. You know, I, I have to say I'm back on Warren Buffett, the Snowball, his biography. It's a fantastic book. You know, he just, you know, retired officially. And so it's been on my mind and I was like, I'm going to reread this. It's a fantastic book. If you really want to dive into the nuances of Warren Buffett's life. I mean, it's, it's thick, it's like that big. But it's a great book.
- [54:22]
A
Yep, it's awesome. I love it. And I love every war, but I'm in a Warren Buffett kick right now too. I just finished Poor Charlie's Almanac for like the fourth time and and another great one that I've been reading. I read like almost every year is the Warren Buffett way because it's a shorter one, but it kind of talks through his business acquisitions. But yeah, I love the Snowball is absolutely fantastic for anybody who wants to learn about his life end to end. It is. It is absolutely one of my favorite books for sure. Is there anything that you're doing this year to level up your finances or anything big that you are learning okay to do?
- [54:51]
B
You know, really there's not a ton, but we've been really just diving in on the organization front. And I don't know about you, but it has been more and harder to organize finances than ever before and trying out different aggregators and programs and then spouses. So my wife has a different style than I have. And we're really just trying to figure out what organization style works for us. Like we used a bunch of tools in the past and now we're trying out a bunch of tools today day. But being able to be organized and have those money conversations is huge. And then just figuring out the best way to stay organized, that's a great goal.
- [55:30]
A
And I think overall, you know, that's the one thing is I feel like it develops for me every. Every couple of years where I have to kind of rethink through organization and things just get faster and we gotta, gotta utilize that. We use Monarch Money. But that's like the one tool I think that's been helpful for us as of late. But again, we. It changes all the time. So I think that's really, really cool.
- [55:47]
B
Yeah, I would say, I was gonna say we're on. On. We're on. Kubera and Fidelity Full View. So Fidelity's built in budgeting tool for the day to day tracking. And then Kubera is what's rocking the net worth and the account planning. And we're liking where it's at right now. But you know, a big part of the organization was also the streamlining. Andrew. I've canceled like four credit cards in the last while, like getting all this stuff back down because like being in the personal finance space, man, I trust try this. I do this. I got points over here. I got this. So you know, it's also just reframing it all and getting back down to like, all right, we really only need our Fidelity 2% cash back for Personal and like, you know, handling this kind of stuff to make it simple.
- [56:31]
A
Exactly. I can tell you right now I probably have 20 different brokerage accounts that I've tested out with like 400 in there that I've just been testing to see if they work. I gotta consolidate all that too, and get to pull it all together. So I feel you're paid on that, for sure. It's one of those areas. Theory is that when you test stuff like we do, it's. It's really important to. To kind of get it back. It's centered and streamlined, for sure. The last one is my favorite question, and this is one that we ask all of our guests. But what does wealth mean to you?
- [56:56]
B
Wealth means the ability to do what you want to do, when you want to do it. It's as simple as that. It might be a number, it might be health and time. It's kind of all integrated, honestly. But it's the ability to do what you want to do when you want to.
- [57:10]
A
To do it.
- [57:11]
B
Spend time with your family, go on vacation. I don't know, whatever it is that you want to do, when you want to do it.
- [57:17]
A
I love that answer. I think that is the perfect definition in the way I think about it as well. Well, Robert, thank you so much for coming on today. Where can people find out more about you and anything else you have going on?
- [57:27]
B
Absolutely. This has been so fun. You can find me@thecollegeinvestor.com we're on all the social platforms, video platforms, and you can find our podcast on your favorite podcast platform form as well.
- [57:38]
A
Awesome. Well, thank you again. We're definitely going to have you back on here and can't wait to see you again.
- [57:43]
B
Awesome. Man, this has been fun.