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The Personal Finance Podcast
Starting at 40+? Here’s the Exact Investing Plan I’d Use (FI After 40 Framework)
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- [01:23]
Andrew
Starting at 40. Here's the exact plan I'd use the PHI after 40 framework what's up everybody and welcome to the Personal Finance Podcast. I'm your host Andrew, founder of MasterMoney Co and today on the Personal Finance Podcast we're going to be talking through what you should do if you're starting after the age of 40. If you guys have any questions, make sure you join the Master Money Newsletter by going to MasterMoney co/newsletter. And don't forget to follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube or whatever your favorite podcast player is. And if you want to help out the show, consider leaving a five star rating and review on Apple Podcast, Spotify or your favorite podcast player. And thank you again for tuning into this show. Today we're going to be diving into if you're starting at 40 and you are feeling the pressure that hey, I need to get my financial life together, I'm going to give you our step by step plan called five after 40 framework and this is one of those episodes for a lot of you out there that I think you will see the amazing potential that you have. You still have time left where you will still be able to retire and achieve financial freedom. For every single person out there who is starting at the age of 40 or after the age of 40, I want you to know one thing. It is never too late. You may be saying to yourself, oh, man, I wish I started earlier. I wish I started in my 20s. I wish I started in my 30s. But guess what? Now is the time to get started. Sure, it would have been much better if you would have started in the past, but you cannot beat yourself up for that. Instead, what it's time to do is look ahead, move forward, and we are going to develop a plan for you so that you can achieve financial independence after the age of 40. Imagine how cool of a story this is going to be when you say to your kids, hey, I started after the age of 40. Here's how far I got. Here's what you could do if you start earlier than I do. And this is going to be a powerful lesson for you, for your family, for your spouse, where you all are going to get on the same exact team in order to achieve your financial goals. This is not about the money. It's all about financial freedom and it's about financial independence. And I am so excited for you to join me today as we go through the Phi after 40 framework. Because this is the way. This is going to be the way that is going to help you achieve that financial freedom. So if you're over the age of 40, do not beat yourself up. You are going to be able to do this. I truly, truly believe in you. We're going to go on this journey together today in this episode, so that we can get the ball rolling. So without further ado, that's enough yapping for me. Let's get into it. All right, so step one is, if you're in your 40s, maybe you're in your 50s, and you are just getting started investing, you need to own where you currently are. We need to figure out, hey, where do you stand currently? So that we can develop a plan to push forward to achieve that financial independence. And so to move forward, you need to know exactly where you stand. So the first thing we are going to do is we are going to list out everything. So you need to know a number of different things. Number one is you need to know what all your assets are. Now, if you don't know what an asset is, it is something that holds weight or holds value. And so this can be your checking account. This could be the amount of money that you have in your savings account. If you have any Investment accounts. How much money is in there? Your 401k, your Roth IRA, your 403b, how much home equity do you have? Okay, those are all things that are going to be assets. Then we need to look at your liabilities or your debts. Do you have credit card debt, do you have student loan debt, do you have a mortgage on hand, do you have car loans, etc. What are all of your debts? Then we need to list out your monthly income sources. Your income is the most important catapult to building wealth. This is what is going to really, truly help you achieve financial independence after the age of 40. And so I want you to list out your monthly income sources. And then we want to break down our monthly expenses. And so when it comes to our expenses, we'll talk about some of the targeted savings rate and things like that, but we want to figure out how much are we spending every single month. Now, you can total this up by looking at your last three months of bank statements, but we want to know how much we spend every single month. I like to utilize a tool like Monarch Money, for example, that just helps you kind of categorize and add all of this stuff up moving forward, forward. And so once we start to get all of this compiled and put together again, you can use a tool, you can use a spreadsheet. Once we put all of these items together, we can start to calculate one, our net worth. So what is our net worth? It is our assets minus our liabilities. And we need to know what this number is because we need to understand where we stand. For some of you, if you're in debt, your net worth may be negative, meaning you may have a big mortgage, you may have credit card debt, you may have car loans. And it's more than the amount of assets that you have, meaning it's more than your investments or how much is in your checking account, or how much is in your savings account, or how much equity you have in your home. If that's the case, don't worry. This is our starting point. So our first goal is if you have a negative net worth, is to make sure that we get you break even first. That's gonna be your very first goal, and we'll talk through that in a second. Or you may have a positive net worth, but it's not exactly where you want it to be. And so we wanna make sure that we are growing our net worth over time and targeting the right numbers to. To ensure that we can actually get this going. Now, when you're in your 40s, I would measure my net worth every single month so that you can check its progress. There's a tool called Empower that will actually help you track your net worth automatically. If you don't want to pay for a tool like Monarch Money or ynab. All right, the next number you need to know is your savings rate. So your savings rate is your total annual savings divided by your gross annual income. Now, you want to aim for at least 20% as your savings rate when you get started in your 40s. But if you want to really accelerate this path, I would aim for 25 to 30% as your ultimate goal going forward. And then you need to understand, understand the gap. So the gap is the difference between your income and your expenses. Now, when you look at this gap, the difference between your income and your expenses, the amount that is left over is called the gap. And the gap is where wealth is built. Because these are the dollars that you can put towards your future self. You can put it towards your emergency fund, you could put it towards your investment accounts, you can put it towards the things that actually matter. They're going to help you move the needle towards financial freedom. And so the more dollars you have in that gap, the more fuel you have to shovel into the fire to allow that fire to grow, which is what we want you to do when it comes to financial independence. Now, you're saying to yourself, well, these are all great that I'm tracking all of these things, but how do I know what my ultimate goal is and what I'm actually shooting for? That's where number two comes into play, because we want to calculate your financial independence number. Now, this is one of my favorite things to do with people, and a lot of times I want them to do this very early on in their journey so they have their North Star in place. You need to know where you're going when you put together a financial plan like this. And if you don't have your North Star in place, you are just saving money in different buckets and don't really know what you're doing. So the big question a lot of people will have is, well, how much money do I actually need to retire? Now, the quick and dirty way to do this is something called the 25x rule. The way the 25x rule works is that you figure out, how much money am I spending every single year? You can take your bank statements last year, look at how much you spent last year and say to yourself, how much am I going to need in retirement? Okay, so let's say, for example, you want to spend $80,000 per year in retirement. Well, if you multiply 25, this is why it's called the rule of 25 by 80,000, that is going to give you $2 million is what you need. Well, $2 million invested is the amount of money that you would need. If you want to spend $80,000 per year in order to be able to retire, that would be your North Star. That's your goal, spending 80,000 per year. Then you need $2 million invested in the market. 70,000 per year multiplied by 25 is 1.75. 60,000 per year is 1 million and a half that you would need available. So the less that you need in retirement, the sooner you're going to be able to retire. Now, you want to factor in a number of other things as well. You can think through and be conservative because you want to account for health care, you want to make sure you're accounting for travel, you want to make sure you're accounting for inflation. Will your mortgage be paid off? What are some of those goals that you're going to have in place and how are you going to think about that? Because if you could think through, hey, how can I reduce some of my costs where I can still have the best possible retirement? And so eliminating things like your mortgage would be a great place to start so that you can hit that goal even faster. Now step three, this is a big one for a lot of people, is I want you to slash all the excess waste. Because if you are behind on your retirement goals, we need to take extra dollars and start to invest them so that we can grow our money over time. Investing is the key to building wealth. If you do not invest your dollars, you will never, ever, ever be able to retire. You absolutely 100% have to invest your money. You cannot stuff your money under a mattress like a drug dealer. You can't keep it in your safe at home. You can't keep it in gold coins in your dresser. You have to invest your dollars in a way that is going to allow them to grow over time. If you keep your money in cash, you will literally never be able to retire and you will run out of money. That's just the cold hard truth of what we are looking at here. The reason why we invest our dollars is to grow our wealth over time, but it also helps us preserve and protect ourselves against inflation. You have seen it over the course of the last couple of decades within your life. Grocery prices rise every single year. Healthcare prices rise every single year. And if we don't find a way to invest our dollars, we are never going to be able to retire. So the reason why we get into step three, which we are going to slash the waste, the reason why we are cutting back on some of these things is so that we can take our extra dollars and put them towards investments. Every dollar not aligned with your goals is completely slowing you down. And so you want to make sure that you are aligning your dollars with your big ticket goals. So audit the big three first. Housing is number one. You want to look at your housing and say to yourself, am I house poor? Am I spending more than 30% of my income on housing related expenses? This is your mortgage, this is your insurance, this is everything related to your house. If you are spending more than 30% of your income on those housing expenses, then we need to figure out a different situation. Because currently what you're doing is if you are spending 40 or 50% on housing, which some people do, if that is the case for you, you are house poor. And the reason why you're not investing your dollars is because you're spending too much of your money on housing. It needs to be 30% or less of your gross income should be spent on housing. And really that is everything baked in. It's going to be your maintenance, your lawn care, your pool care. If you have all those things, if all of those things are tipping you over that 30%, you're going to have to cut back on some of those things. If you, no matter what, you cut it all back and your mortgage is still more than 30% of your income, then we're going to need a new house. That's the only way that this is really going to work. Why? Why is that the case? Because if you spend too much on housing, it's too big of a line item for you to really make it work. Unless you figure out a way to go down to one car, or you reduce your transportation expenses, or you figure out a way to reduce your food expenses, this is going to be a big giant ticket item that we got to figure out. Number two is transportation. So a lot of people who are in their 40s who are drowning in debt, or a lot of people who are in their 40s who just never got ahead is because they always have a car payment. They've always had a car payment and every three years they get the new model, or every three years they just go and get a new car. If you have all these different car payments, if you are spending over $1,000 per month in car payments. And you are not investing your dollars. You are working in reverse. A car is a depreciating asset, and over time, depreciating assets lose value. When you drive that brand new car off the lot, it loses value immediately about 20%. Right. When you drive it off the lot over the course of the first year, it loses about 30% of its value. That is not a winning formula when it comes to building wealth. And so we want to make sure that we are reducing the liabilities that we hold in place. So when it comes to your car, you want to make sure that you were spending less on that car. So we have a rule called the 2412, 10 rule. What does that mean? You put 20% down on any vehicle that you have? Obviously, always it's better to pay cash for vehicles. But if you can't, you put 20% down. Always, always, always. Why? Because when you drive it off the lot, it depreciates at least 20%. And if you get in an accident at that point in time and you don't have 20% down, you were underwater on that car. Okay, so that is number one. You can also look at gap insurance if you don't have the 20%, if you're really in a pinch. Number two. Four. Four stands for four years or less spent on that vehicle. Okay. Four years or less of car payments should be spent on that vehicle. Not five, not six, not seven. You should not be stretching out car payments. We want you to have multiple years of your life where you do not have car payments. And so four years or less on that vehicle. Next is 12. What does 12 stand for? 12 stands for how much you should be spending of your income every single month on vehicles or less. So 12 is really broken out into two parts. It is 7, which is 7% of your income or less should be spent on the car payment. And 5% or less of your income should be spent on the maintenance of the vehicle. This is why a lot of people will get a luxury car and get themselves into trouble because they're like, oh, I spent 7% or less of my income on the vehicle. But they are spending 10% or more of their income on the maintenance of that vehicle. If you've ever driven a Mercedes or a BMW or a Lexus or any other luxury vehicle, you know how costly that can get. The Last number is 10. I want you driving all of your cars that you purchase for 10 years or longer, not making them 10 years old. If you buy a 3 year used vehicle, I Want you to drive it until it's 13 years old or longer. I drive every single one of my cars for 10 years or longer. That is always my number one goal is to see how many miles I can get out of that thing. It's a competition with myself.
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Sponsor 1
Why?
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Andrew
Because I know cars are depreciating assets. I do not want to go in and buy things that are going to lose value over time. Third thing to audit is food. Food is one of the big three, because a lot of people will spend money on groceries and they will spend a lot more on groceries than they actually think they do. So audit your groceries. How much do you spend a month? But two, dining out, those two things will cost people a lot of money. And if you reduce some of those expenses, you can save up to 500 bucks a month just by doing that alone. $500 per month compounded over the course of 20 years is a big, big number. And it will really change your retirement for the long term. And if you can do that now, the big thing when you're cutting back on things, because I don't love cutting back, I'd rather you actually earn more over time. That's the big goal that I really want you to have. But in the short term, we need to cut back in order to try to find some money so that we can take those extra dollars and put them towards investment so that we can play catch up. We are playing the catch up game right now, especially if you are early on in your journey. And so the reason why we do this is going to be really powerful. Now when you cut things, we want to cut things with the CIA method. The CIA method means cut, identify, automate. So first we're going to cut back on some of this stuff. Then we're going to identify where we want this money to go. So let's say you cut back and you want to invest in your emergency fund, okay. And you want to build up that emergency fund so you have cash on hand to protect yourself as you start to grow your wealth going forward. Well, if you are cutting back, then you need to reallocate your dollars and identify towards that emergency fund, okay? So you want to identify that you're it's going to the emergency fund and then a, it's going to be automated into that emergency fund. So then you're going to automatically make sure you make automated transfers into that emergency fund. So if you cut back $200 every single month now, you're going to start to automate $200 into your emergency fund. That way it doesn't take willpower anymore. It doesn't mean that you have to remember. Instead, it's automatically going into that specific fund. Now step four this is the part where a lot of you in your 40s, I really, really want you to focus your time and energy on. We're going to get to it next.
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Andrew
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- [19:15]
Andrew
Step four is to supercharge your income. Now this, my friends, is probably the most important place that you need to focus your time energy on. So if you are someone who is susceptible to lifestyle creep and you started to cut back and notice, oh, I'm spending way too much on housing, I'm spending way too much on food and transportation, I cut back some of my car payments, I cut back on some of my grocery bill, I cut back on some of my housing costs. And now you're saying to yourself, well, what else can I do to really accelerate my path to wealth? This is the true big difference maker. Income is the number one way that you can really fast track your way to wealth. It is the millionaire fast lane. If you can increase your income over time and you know how to make manage that income, there's a two fold here, then you could take those extra dollars and put them towards your freedom and you can achieve financial freedom that much faster. Income is the number one answer to all your financial problems. I want you to say that over and over and over again. Now there's a lot of people out there with a high income who are dead broke where they live paycheck to paycheck. I have talked to people who make a million dollars a year who live paycheck to paycheck because they don't know how to manage their money. But if you can get your income high enough where you can take big chunks of money, those extra dollars and you can put them towards your investments, you will be amazed at how fast your money can grow. And so there are three different areas that I want you to think about when it comes to focusing on growing your income. Number one is negotiating your salary. Now you want to first figure out ways how can I bring more value to my company, the place I spend most of my time, day in and day out, so that I can increase my income. Your 30s and your 40s are your highest income earning years. And if you're really way beyond in your career, then maybe your 50s, you're going to have some really high earning years as well. But these are the decades where you really want to make a big, big impact when it comes to your income. And so because of that, you need to document your value. You need to practice your pitch on how you're going to ask for a raise but in addition, I would recommend highly, highly recommend following our six month plan. So we have a free resource about how to ask for a raise and how to negotiate your salary. If you go to MasterMoney Co resources there is a free resource there. It's an ebook that is a six month plan to show you how exactly get a raise. We also have a podcast episode on the same thing. So if you just look, you know how to ask for a raise or how to negotiate your salary, you will see that episode come up. So that is the first way is number one is ask for a race. Number two is if you've been at a job for a really long time, they have not given you a raise. I would highly recommend considering switching jobs, meaning jumping companies. Because most of the time if you look at the statistics, people earn on average 14 to 25% more when they switch jobs. Companies loyalty is dead when it comes to working for your specific company. And so if you consider switching to another company, you can earn a lot more money specifically if they were looking for your talent. So that's the second one. Number three is to start a side business that could turn into a full time income. So one of my favorite ways to invest my dollars is to find a side business that I think has a high rate of success and be able to start that side business to grow it into a full time income. We just had an episode on this recently of five different ideas that I have if you want to hear kind of what I mean by that and what I'm talking about. But that is place that you can go to really think about growing your income. I am not huge on doing things like Uber or Lyft or Uber Eats or all that type of stuff. That stuff is great if you're trying to pay off debt and get out of a pickle fast. But if you are someone who wants to look for a more scalable income source, I would look for things like consulting or online products or real estate or coaching or freelancing. You could trade time for money in the short term, but find something that's scalable in the long run that can help you really, really build up your income. Again, I can't say this enough and stress this enough. Your income will change your retirement plan and it will really accelerate your path if you can find ways to increase it. Step five is to maximize your retirement contributions. Now your retirement contributions are a great tax efficient way to get your dollars invested over time. And so you've got some catching up to do. And the good news is The IRS also gives you tools. Over the course of the next couple of decades, it's going to help you do this. So, for example, if you are above the age of 50, you have something called a catch up contribution. And so for folks who want to contribute to a 401k in 2025, you can put $30,500. In a Roth IRA, you could put $8,000. If you're below the age of 50, you could put 7. And in an HSA, if you're eligible, you can put $8,300 as a family and 5,150 as a single person. And so here's my order that I really like to look at. I like to look at the Roth IRA and the HSA and then the 401k, but I always want to get my 401k match first. So if you're at a job that has a 401k match, or if you have a 403b or a 457, see what the match is. Because that is free money. It is 100% free money. So you always want to make sure that you are getting that match first. Then I would look at the Roth IRA or HSA level. The Roth IRA is amazing because you contribute money in, the money grows tax free in your investments and then you can pull the money out tax free. The 401k is the opposite. So money goes in tax free, the money grows, and then you pull the money out. You get tax on that money when you pull it out, but hopefully you're making less money in retirement and so you pull it out at a lower taxable rate. Now, there are a lot of nuances to these accounts. We have full episodes on each and every single one of these if you want to learn more. But they are some of the best ways to save money on taxes when it comes to your specific situation. Also, when it comes to investing your dollars, the big thing you want to make sure that you are doing is automatically contributing your dollars to these investment accounts. The last thing you want to rely on is willpower. Your willpower has failed you for 40 plus years. And so now it is time to rely on automation. Meaning, if you did not know this, you can automatically contribute money every single month into your investment account. And you can also automatically invest those dollars once it's in your investment account. If you're new to investing, we have a free class called Investing for Beginners. If you go to MasterMoney Co investing for Beginners, you can check that out there. But you also have to make sure that once you contribute money to an investment account, you also invest it inside that investing account. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking, if they just put money in my investment account, it'll be invested. No, you have to go in there and invest those dollars. So making sure you do that is really, really important. And you can make it invisible. One of my favorite ways to do this is automation allows you to just, hey, I'm going to automate money. Every single time I get paid into my investment accounts. I never saw it, I never thought about spending it because it wasn't there, it was invisible. It was just automatically transferred into my investment accounts. And you think of it as an investment in yourself. Think of it as a way to invest in future. You. You want to vote with your dollars with which what you want, meaning that every single time you invest your dollars, you want to make sure that those dollars are going towards your values. And if you're valuing your freedom, if you want to stop working one day, if you've been working at this job for decades now and you're saying to yourself, enough is enough, I need to create financial freedom for myself. Now is the time to do that. That's what we are teaching you to do here. All right, Step six is to learn how to invest intelligently. So one of the big things that I think most people think need to think through is that they have a shorter timeline. And so we got to get somewhat aggressive with our investments. We can't be conservative at this point in time. But you still need to grow your wealth fast with a smart strategy. So you can get an advisor in place that can kind of help you through this process to figure out what your asset allocation should be. But I would stick to the basics. Low cost, broad based index funds is one place to look. And index funds and ETFs, you can also do target date funds, which are great for new investors. Those are going to help you over time. And you can prioritize these accounts in this order like we just talked about. I would look at the employer match, which is free money. I would look at the Roth IRA. I would look at the HSA, the 401k, and then a taxable brokerage account. And again, we want to make sure we are automatically contributing to those accounts as time goes on. Now, if you make too much money for a Roth ira, you could do a backdoor Roth ira, meaning you could open a traditional IRA and then move money into the Roth ira. That is another way that you can get money in there. But we want to make sure that we have an intelligent investment plan. So stocks typically outperform bonds when it comes to return. The rate of return. Now they have more volatility, meaning they go up and down more often. But at the same time, they still are going to outperform bonds, at least historically they have over the course of the long run. So if I was someone who was in my 40s, what would I do and how would I invest my dollars? I'd probably be closer to what is called the Warren Buffett portfolio. Now, we just had an episode talking about the 10 different portfolios, part one and two. And the Warren Buffett portfolio is part of that, where he has 90% of his investments into something like an S&P 500 index fund, and he has 10% into something like a bond fund. Now this is not advice. This is just what I would do. So that's the way I would probably think through it. If I was Starting in my 40s, starting fresh, you know, zero balance, or maybe I had 10, 20, 30, 40, $50,000. And I'm just trying to get started here. That is the way I would probably set up my asset allocation is with something like a Warren Buffett portfolio. It's called the Warren Buffett portfolio because that's what he puts all of his family's money in, is that exact portfolio of just, you know, two broad based index funds of the S&P 500 and then of the total bond market. So that's the way I would think through that and how I would invest probably some of my money going forward. That allows you to get, you know, a closer to a 9% rate of return historically and it will grow over time and help you really get some of that accelerated pace that you need because you are looking to retire over the course of the next couple of decades. Now step seven is in this five after 40 framework is we want to make sure we are planning for healthcare. Now, a big thing I want you to understand about health care is it has risen at a rate of 7% every single year over the course of the last decade. That is a scary number, meaning that we need to prep for healthcare expenses. And we want to make sure that we aim to retire with no liabilities because health care is going to take a large portion of how much we make. And so fi hits different when your liabilities are gone. So one thing I would try to aim to retire with is no mortgage, no car loans, no credit card debt, and no student loans. Those are the four things that I would try to target is making sure you have none on any of those. Now I would not prioritize a mortgage over investing or something like that. I would not do that whatsoever. But that would be my goal is those four areas are liability free because the estimated health care costs as of last year and a rough guide for Medicare is 5,000 to $10,000 a year for retirees. So this is why I love the hsa. So the health savings account has triple tax benefits. So you put money in tax free, you can invest those dol and grow tax free and you can pull the money out tax free as long as you have a qualified medical expense. And so every time you have a qualified medical expense, you can pull the money out tax free. Now if you have way too big of an HSA over the next 20 years, you start investing those dollars and you realize, wow, my HSA is getting really, really big. I'm not going to ever be able to spend all this money. Well then the money that you pull out is just like a traditional ira, very similar rules. And so really it is a super retirement account in that regard because you can get those triple tax benefits. And again, as these health care costs continue to rise and I don't ever see it slowing down in the near future unless there's some major, major reform, then we have to make sure we are prepared for that. So the HSA is a very powerful way to strategically prepare for medical costs in retirement. So as you are starting to acquire medical bills now, I would just save them and I would pay them out of pocket and I would start to let my HSA build up over time. There is no timeline as to when you can reimburse yourself with the hsa. We just did an entire episode on the hsa. So if you want to check that episode out, I would go back and tune into that one as well. Now step eight, this is going to be the last step and this is going to keep you motivated over time is I want you to create a catch up calendar. So maybe you put together year by year goals for things like your net worth, things like your savings rate goals, things like your debt milestones, investment goal benchmarks and side income benchmarks. I want you to put these together and put these goals together. You need to have that North Star, you need to have that. Why? And if you have friends or family who are also starting after the age of 40, do this together, have this journey together. Because having accountability partners is going to be really, really powerful. We are creating a personal finance community that is going to help connect folks who have these similar goals just like this, folks over 40 who are trying to build wealth. We're going to connect them together and it's going to be something really, really cool. I am so excited as we start to develop this community to show you all what we are doing when it comes to this kind of stuff. So here's the mindset I want you to have throughout. Okay, this is gonna be the difference maker. It's not too late. This is just your launching point. This is where you are just getting started. It is never too late. We are gonna be putting plans into place in order to change our financial trajectory forever. Every decision now carries more weight, but that's a good thing because now you can take this serious, you can take your financial life serious. You can grab the reins and absolutely change what's going to happen to you financially. Now here's one thing I want you to remember is consistency beats intensity. I don't want you to get intense about this for three months and then quit. I want you to do it in a way that you can maintain consistency so that you do not quit. You do not need to go out all out every single day. You just need to keep showing up day in and day out and urgency and intention are going to win. So I want you to have a sense of urgency to get started and put this plan together. I want you to automate the entire plan so you don't have to work so hard at it. And that way you can build these systems, you can focus your energy and you can stop waiting for permission. This is how you are going to get to the next level after the age of 40 is you are going to need to make sure that you are putting this plan in place. So this is just the launch pad. This is just the starting point and I am super excited for every single one of you who is getting started investing today. If you guys have any questions please shoot me an email. I would love to help you as much as I possibly can and we can even answer your questions on a money Q A and help you through that process as well. Listen. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. If you guys have any questions again, join that Master Money newsletter by going to MasterMoney Co newsletter and if you're getting value out of this episode, share it with a family member, friend or co worker. Again, thank you so much for listening and we will see you on the next episode.