Why you NEED a Finanial Independence Bucket List With Justin Peters

Summary

The Personal Finance Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: Why You NEED a Financial Independence Bucket List With Justin Peters
Host: Andrew Giancola
Guest: Justin Peters, Host of the Five Minded Podcast
Release Date: April 30, 2025

---

Introduction to Justin Peters and Financial Independence

[03:27] Andrew Giancola:
Andrew welcomes Justin Peters, highlighting Justin's experience in the podcasting industry and his focus on financial independence. Justin shares his journey, explaining how he discovered financial independence approximately seven to eight years ago. He emphasizes the pivotal moment when he realized the power of financial independence to "buy back your freedom" and how this realization inspired him to help others through podcasting.

Notable Quote:
Justin Peters [04:38]:
"It's so incredibly powerful what you can do with your money and it gives you so many cool options and optionality and flexibility."

---

Creating a Financial Independence Bucket List

Justin introduces the concept of a Financial Independence Bucket List, drawing parallels to traditional bucket lists. This list not only includes post-FI goals but also integrates activities that can be enjoyed during the journey toward financial independence.

Key Components:

• Places to Go: Travel aspirations, such as a trip to Tokyo.
• Things to Do: Personal achievements like reading the entire Harry Potter series.
• Habits and Lifestyle Changes: Daily practices like spending more time outdoors and reducing screen time.

Notable Quote:
Justin Peters [05:58]:
"The five bucket list is definitely something I think that a lot of people can look at and take that approach on as well."

---

Balancing Savings with Enjoyment

Justin discusses the challenge of balancing aggressive saving for FI with the desire to enjoy life presently. He shares his strategy of allocating specific funds annually to his bucket list, ensuring that financial goals do not overshadow current joys.

Strategies Highlighted:

• Prioritization: Identifying which bucket list items are most important each year.
• Budget Allocation: Setting aside funds specifically for bucket list activities without compromising long-term savings goals.

Notable Quote:
Justin Peters [11:02]:
"Prioritizing your list and allocating funds intentionally helps relieve the stress of saving by allowing you to spend on things you truly value."

---

Gamifying Savings

To make the saving process more engaging, Justin introduces the concept of gamifying savings. This involves setting milestones and rewarding oneself upon reaching each target, thereby making financial goals more tangible and motivating.

Techniques Discussed:

• Milestone Rewards: For instance, rewarding a trip to Tokyo upon reaching a net worth milestone.
• Save and Match Game: Complementary strategies where spending and saving are balanced creatively to reinforce good financial habits.

Notable Quote:
Justin Peters [29:26]:
"Gamifying the process makes financial independence achievable and fun. It's about turning saving into an exciting game rather than a mundane task."

---

Taking Mini-Retirements

Justin shares his personal experience with mini-retirements, which are intentional sabbaticals taken to recharge, pursue passions, or explore new interests without waiting until traditional retirement age.

Justin's Experience:

• Sabbatical in 2020: Took a seven-month break due to burnout, which led to the creation of his podcast.
• Lessons Learned: The importance of financial preparedness and the transformative impact of taking time off.

Advice for Implementing Mini-Retirements:

1. Financial Planning: Ensure sufficient funds are set aside, including a buffer for unexpected expenses.
2. Intentionality: Define clear goals and intentions for the time off to maximize its fulfilling nature.
3. Flexibility: Be prepared to adjust plans as circumstances change.

Notable Quote:
Justin Peters [17:27]:
"Personal finance is so incredibly powerful because it gives you the flexibility to take breaks, rejuvenate, and pursue what truly matters to you."

---

Implementing a Five Flex Schedule

To enhance daily flexibility before achieving full financial independence, Justin introduces the Five Flex Schedule. This approach involves creating intentional gaps in the workweek to incorporate personal activities and reduce burnout.

Components of a Five Flex Schedule:

• Setting Boundaries: Examples include a rule to leave work by 3:30 PM on pleasant days.
• Scheduling Personal Time: Allocating specific times for activities like outdoor time, hobbies, or family.
• Negotiating Work Terms: Advocating for flexible work arrangements, such as a four-day workweek or designated meeting-free times.

Notable Quote:
Justin Peters [34:33]:
"Creating flexibility in your schedule is about embedding aspects of your ideal day into your current routine, ensuring that you don't wait until FI to enjoy life."

---

Balancing Work and Flexibility

Justin emphasizes that achieving flexibility often requires negotiation and demonstrating value in current work performance. He provides examples of how high performers can successfully integrate flexible schedules without compromising productivity.

Key Points:

• Negotiating with Employers: Presenting logical arguments for flexibility, such as improved productivity and focus.
• Adapting to Seasons: Tailoring flexibility based on work demands, like reducing hours post-tax season.
• Personal Examples: Justin's own rules, such as no meetings before 10 AM and dedicated Sundays for personal projects, illustrate practical implementation.

Notable Quote:
Justin Peters [40:14]:
"If you have a logical argument and you're a top performer, most managers will be receptive to granting you the flexibility you seek."

---

Audience Questions and Insights

Towards the end of the episode, Andrew poses several thought-provoking questions to Justin, allowing for deeper insights into his philosophy and strategies regarding personal finance and life balance.

1. What Part of Your Work or Life Makes You Come Alive?
   Justin Peters: Podcasting is his passion, especially the preparation and engaging conversations it entails.

2. Biggest Fear When It Comes to Money:
   Justin Peters: Running out of money. He acknowledges overcoming a scarcity mindset ingrained from his upbringing.

3. Plans to Level Up Finances This Year:
   Justin Peters: Simplifying his financial management by consolidating accounts and avoiding the chase for optimal rates, prioritizing peace of mind over complexity.

4. Legacy for Future Children:
   Justin Peters: Instilling a balance between financial independence and enjoying life's moments, encouraging them to prioritize both future planning and present enjoyment.

5. Best Money Advice Received:
   Justin Peters: "You can always make more money, but you can't get more time back." This wisdom reinforces the importance of valuing and managing time effectively.

6. Definition of Wealth:
   Justin Peters: Freedom, optionality, and flexibility. Wealth is not just about net worth but the ability to control how one spends their time.

Notable Quote:
Justin Peters [50:35]:
"Wealth means having the freedom and flexibility to spend your time the way you want, not being constrained by financial obligations."

---

Conclusion and Where to Find More

Andrew and Justin wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to explore Justin's podcast, Five Minded, which delves deeper into themes of financial independence and personal fulfillment.

Where to Find Justin Peters:

• Podcast: Five Minded (available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and other platforms)
• Website: FiveMinded.com (Assumed link)

Final Thoughts:
The episode provides a comprehensive exploration of integrating financial independence with a fulfilling life. Justin Peters offers actionable strategies to balance saving with enjoying the present, emphasizing intentionality, flexibility, and creative financial planning.

---

Key Takeaways:

• Financial Independence Bucket List: A strategic approach to balance current enjoyment with long-term financial goals.
• Gamifying Savings: Makes the saving process engaging and rewarding.
• Mini-Retirements: Short-term sabbaticals to recharge and pursue passions.
• Five Flex Schedule: Structured flexibility to enhance daily life and prevent burnout.
• Mindset Shift: Moving from scarcity to abundance to fully leverage financial independence.

---

Recommended for: Individuals seeking to achieve financial independence without sacrificing present-day joys, and those looking to integrate personal fulfillment with disciplined financial planning.

Transcript

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[Andrew Powder]

On this episode of the Personal Finance Podcast how to create a Financial Independence Bucket List and take many Retirements. What's up everybody and welcome to the Personal Finance Podcast. I'm your host Andrew Powder of MasterMoney Co and today on the Personal Finance Podcast we're joined by Justin Peters to talk about financial independence. If you guys have any questions, make sure you join that Master Money newsletter by going to MasterMoney Co newsletter and also follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube or whatever your favorite podcast player is.

[Justin Peters]

And if you're getting value out of.

[Andrew Powder]

The show, consider leaving a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favorite podcast player. So today we have Justin Peters on the show and Justin is the host of the five Minded Podcast, a podcast that I have been on a few times already. So if you haven't checked out those episodes I highly encourage you to do so. But Justin is coming on today and is one of my favorite people in the podcasting industry. Justin and I are going to be Talking through things like a financial bucket list and how you can create a bucket list and still achieve things that you want to be doing while on the path to financial independence. We're going to talk through how to take major mini retirements and why, if you feel like you're getting burned out, how you can plan yourself a mini retirement to give yourself a break. We're going to talk through how you can do that. We're going to go through how to gamify savings and some ways that you can trick yourself into saving more and or just gamify the process of savings. In addition, we're going to talk about how to create a financial independence flex schedule. A five flex schedule allows you to create flexibility in your schedule so that.

[Justin Peters]

You can do the things that you love.

[Andrew Powder]

And this is going to be an episode. I am really, really excited, excited for.

[Justin Peters]

You guys to hear.

[Andrew Powder]

We're going to have Justin on this podcast more because we love to talk about financial independence here. So without further ado, I want you to welcome Justin to the Personal Finance podcast.

[Justin Peters]

So Justin, welcome to the Personal Finance podcast.

Andrew, man, I am so stoked to be here.

[Andrew Powder]

Thanks for inviting me on.

[Justin Peters]

I'm excited to talk about what we're going to talk about today.

Absolutely. We are really pumped to have you here as well. And we're going to be talking about financial independence today. And I know a lot of our audience members are really, really interested in this topic. So I'm excited to dive into some of this. But before we do that, can you tell us a little bit about your yourself and what you do?

Yeah, I talk about personal finance and money all day long. I have a podcast called five Minded. I just rebranded it and you're actually going to be the very first episode.

[Andrew Powder]

Of the new rebranded show, which is awesome.

[Justin Peters]

But long story short, I essentially found financial independence maybe seven or eight years ago.

[Andrew Powder]

Slipped into it mostly from the sense.

[Justin Peters]

Of like, I recognized I didn't want.

[Andrew Powder]

To be working or at least being.

[Justin Peters]

Forced to work the rest of my life. And slowly over time, got better and better at this. And then I saw the power of financial independence for myself and I wanted to start helping other people with it. And that's when I got into podcasting.

It's so fun when you kind of have that moment in time where you realize how cool financial independence is and how you go back and you can start to buy your time. And I think that realization is that light bulb moment is what I always call it is one of those things that you just always remember Kind of that point in time and where you were and kind of what you were doing at that time. And I think that was huge for me as well.

[Indeed Advertiser]

But you have this really cool system.

[Justin Peters]

And the way that you approach financial independence is also very cool. And one thing that you have is called the financial independence bucket list. So can you tell me about that bucket list and kind of some specific items that you've included in that?

Yeah.

[Andrew Powder]

And taking a step back from that.

[Justin Peters]

Too, I should have put a preface on this.

[Andrew Powder]

I love financial independence, but I also.

[Justin Peters]

Want to enjoy my life now too. And I definitely fell into the victim trap early on of just depleting everything, being super frugal, and recognizing that after.

[Andrew Powder]

A couple of years of really pursuing financial independence and this kind of mental.

[Justin Peters]

It wasn't gotta be sustainable for me.

[Andrew Powder]

So slowly over time, I decided how.

[Justin Peters]

Can I insert a lot of fun into financial independence? And not just like post reaching my fire number, but also like throughout the entire journey too.

[Andrew Powder]

And one of the concepts that came.

[Justin Peters]

About while I was doing some brainstorming on that is this financial independence bucket list or five bucket list. It's very similar to a normal bucket list, you know, coming from the. The phrase, you know, kicking the bucket. What do you want to do before.

[Andrew Powder]

You kick the bucket?

[Justin Peters]

And people make these like really cool list of all the different things they want to do. And, and I wanted to take that concept but put it into the fi world.

[Andrew Powder]

And essentially how does this apply to my fi journey? And not only like, what do I.

[Justin Peters]

Want to do post reaching financial independence, but whatever, some of these things on this list that I can start applying to my everyday as well. You know, a lot of things on my list personally don't cost a lot of money.

[Andrew Powder]

I mean, there are some things, of.

[Justin Peters]

Course, there are places I want to go and things that I want to buy and, and whatnot. But like so much of what was on my list or what I was uncovering on my list was attainable without.

[Andrew Powder]

Any additional money, but more so just.

[Justin Peters]

Some flexibility and freedom.

And I think that is one of the most refreshing parts about kind of your approach to financial independence is I was the same way in my 20s. A lot of times I was really frugal once I discovered financial independence. I was a huge proponent of Mr. Money Mustache Way back in the day. And I'd read every single one of his blog posts. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to live on $25,000 a year too. And it was one of those things where I got so Excited about it. Then I brought it to my wife and she was not so excited to live that frugally. And so it was one of those things that we had to kind of find a balance over time. My expenses have kind of grown over time and I realized pretty quickly that.

[Indeed Advertiser]

Instead I want to spend more on.

[Justin Peters]

The things that I love and make sure that I help and prioritize that as well. And so the five bucket list is definitely something I think that a lot of people can look at and take that approach on as well. So what are some of the must have items to include in your 5 bucket list? Or what are some things that you add to that?

Yeah, and I created the five bucket list because I was so tired of people asking me, you know, whenever you get into the financial independence movement and you start telling people that aren't in this movement that you're going to maybe retire in your 30s or your 40s, the question I always get is like, well, what do you got to do with your time? And the first couple of times I heard that, I kind of dismissed it.

[Andrew Powder]

I was like, don't worry, I'm too.

[Justin Peters]

Type A. I will figure out things that I want to do. But then I was like, actually that's.

[Andrew Powder]

A really great question. What do I want to do with my time?

[Justin Peters]

And I started creating this bucket list. I have a couple of different broad categories. Places I want to go. That one's really obvious. I like to travel. My girlfriend really loves to travel, so she definitely boosters this category for me. And we have a lot of different things. I actually got to cross out one.

[Andrew Powder]

Last year, which was Tokyo. Tokyo was on my short list.

[Justin Peters]

I really wanted to go. And we actually ended up putting the money aside and making the trip out to Tokyo, which was great. So places I want to go. Then there are things that I want to do. These are your more typical bucket list type things. It could be like run a marathon or see Machu Picchu. Whatever one that is on my list that I'm really excited to eventually do is read all seven Harry Potter books. I don't know why I have read.

[Andrew Powder]

A half of the fourth one.

[Justin Peters]

Like that is all I've read. I like the movies, I enjoy them. And I, for some reason it just like landed on my five bucket list. @ some point in time. I was like, you know what? I'm going to read the Harry Potter books. Like whenever I get time to read. Now, it's usually personal finance or business related books, but I want to. As I get closer and closer to financial independence. Start just reading for fun. And for some reason I think the Harry Potter series would really jumpstart that. So that's another big one that's out there. And the last kind of general category that I have is habits or just like I have in parentheses every day.

[Andrew Powder]

And this one came through a lot.

[Justin Peters]

Of conversations and it wasn't as tangible as like go to Tokyo or read.

[Andrew Powder]

The Harry Potter books, but more so.

[Justin Peters]

Like how do I want to embody and live every single day?

[Andrew Powder]

So one thing that has been on.

[Justin Peters]

That list for a little while is I want to be outside more and.

[Andrew Powder]

In front of a computer screen less.

[Justin Peters]

And over time I've started to really focus on a couple of these habits.

[Andrew Powder]

These are the things that usually don't.

[Justin Peters]

Cost me a whole lot of money.

[Andrew Powder]

I just want like my life to be centered around them.

[Justin Peters]

So like now I have a rule.

[Andrew Powder]

Where if it's 70 or 80 degrees.

[Justin Peters]

Outside and sunny, I want to be.

[Andrew Powder]

Off work by 3:30.

[Justin Peters]

Like that's just like a hard rule for me. Like I can always come back to.

[Andrew Powder]

Work at 7:30 or 8 whenever it starts getting dark. Don't worry.

[Justin Peters]

But like I'm going to go enjoy four or five hours of the, the awesome weather if that's the case. And luckily Austin has been giving me.

[Andrew Powder]

Tons of that recently and I've been.

[Justin Peters]

Benefiting a lot from it.

I love that. I think that is such a cool idea is to kind of have all these different types of things on your bucket list. Now first of all, I think a lot of us listen, we have a ton of audience members who love traveling. We talk about travel hacking a lot and some cool things that you can do there. And I think for me that's a big one for me specifically as well is kind of thinking through some of the things that I want on my bucket list is to travel a lot more. And I think that's going to be a big one coming up for sure. But I love the idea of kind of how you integrate some of these other different areas, things like habits, for example. That's an amazing thing to go out and do. A you're going to feel so much more refreshed to go outside and spend more time in sunlight. Like for example, that's something I need to do more. I'm sitting in a studio right now with all the windows blocked off and I'm like in darkness half the time. And so it's one of those things that I think is just so incredibly powerful. And I love how you kind of balance that. Now, when you have all these things on your list or when you have these items on your list, how do you balance being able to chase after some of those things? And then how do you balance also saving for financial independence in the future? So obviously some of the things on your list are free, like the last example. But outside of that, if you wanted to go travel more, how do you balance those two things?

Yeah, I think that's the million dollar question right there, or the crux of a lot of what I like to talk about. And I think it can be challenging, but prioritizing, like right last year we.

[Andrew Powder]

Knew Tokyo was going to be expensive. At least the flights, although it was.

[Justin Peters]

Way cheaper than we were expecting, the US dollar versus the Japanese yen right now has saved us a whole lot. But at the beginning of the year.

[Andrew Powder]

We knew that we wanted to allocate.

[Justin Peters]

A certain amount of money to crossing.

[Andrew Powder]

This bucket list item off of our list.

[Justin Peters]

And we set that aside. And we knew outside of that, we were maxing out our 401ks, our IRAs, we were doing all the things so.

[Andrew Powder]

That we wanted to give ourselves the permission to spend some money now and enjoy the current moments.

[Justin Peters]

But also we were taking care of ourself. And I think we can get into the habit, especially the super savers out there, of recognizing that it isn't necessarily always about just how do I max out all my accounts and get as much money as I can into some of my investments.

[Andrew Powder]

But if you intentionally take a step.

[Justin Peters]

Back at the beginning of the year, look at your list and be like.

[Andrew Powder]

What are some of the monetary items on this list that I really want to prioritize?

[Justin Peters]

I think that helps me at least kind of relieve or get relieved with the fact that, okay, I'm going to.

[Andrew Powder]

Be spending a little bit of money.

[Justin Peters]

But they're intentionally spending this money on the things that I've been wanting to.

[Andrew Powder]

Do for a very long time now.

[Justin Peters]

Absolutely. And I think it's almost one of those things. A lot of times when I create these lists, I will prioritize them from like, most important to least important. And when I have most important up there, sometimes the most important thing is actually a pretty expensive item. And if it's one of those things where, like, say you want to travel to multiple countries all in one big trip, if you wanted to do something like that, and it's going to cost you, I don't know, seven, $10,000, because you're going to go for multiple months or weeks, whatever else, if you want to do something like that. It's worth that time and the energy to start saving for it now. Even if it's a big, huge goal, just start putting dollars towards that big, huge goal. Because you're going to be so surprised at how fast you can actually achieve that goal, even if you just automate it over time. That's one of my favorite things to do. And then outside of that, you can start to go check other things off your list as well. So. So is this something that you kind of keep in a. Like a Google Doc or how do you kind of organize all of this?

[Andrew Powder]

It's a note in my phone. So anytime an idea comes to me.

[Justin Peters]

I just quickly open up my note and throw it into the sheet. And then once again, at the beginning of the year, I typically open that up and I highlight a couple of.

[Andrew Powder]

Things or bring some things to the.

[Justin Peters]

Top, and I'm like, these are the ones that I really want to focus on or prioritize this year.

Awesome. What advice would you give someone who is just starting to create their own financial independence bucket list? Is there any way or thought process you have for this or frameworks that you can kind of give as tips for that?

Yeah, I think. I mean, I loved how I started.

[Andrew Powder]

Which was just opening up a note in my phone.

[Justin Peters]

And over the course of the year, as ideas came by, I just added them.

[Andrew Powder]

I didn't really try to scrutinize them at all. Like, I wasn't saying no.

[Justin Peters]

I was really just like creating the.

[Andrew Powder]

List and getting the master list put together.

[Justin Peters]

And then over time, you know, categories.

[Andrew Powder]

Started to emerge, priorities started to take place. And some years I just crossed things off.

[Justin Peters]

I'm like, I thought I wanted to do that. Like, I was. I really wanted to brew my own.

[Andrew Powder]

Beer at some point in time. But now I hardly drink anymore, so.

[Justin Peters]

I'm like, I don't know.

[Andrew Powder]

It doesn't like, resonate the same for.

[Justin Peters]

Me, which I think is totally fine.

[Andrew Powder]

So you can move and shift things.

[Justin Peters]

As your own life changes. But yeah, I think just don't overthink it and figure out whatever method makes sense for you to capture ideas and put a quarterly or annual reminder on.

[Andrew Powder]

Your calendar just to check the list.

[Justin Peters]

And start to prioritize a couple of.

[Andrew Powder]

Things on your list.

[Justin Peters]

I love that. And I actually before, you know, I don't drink much anymore either, but when I used to drink a little more, when I was younger, I used to try to brew beer. And when I did that the first couple of times, I messed up. Like Five batches in a row and I just completely quit. So I was like, I'm done this after that. That's one of those things for sure. It's supposed to be super easy and for some reason I couldn't figure it out, but it's one of those things. I love those ideas, just kind of coming up with some really cool activities that you're interested in and it just kind of going after it is, is the best way to do this. Now, I want to shift gears slightly here because you have a really cool concept that I absolutely love for a lot of people, which is taking mini retirements. And I think mini retirements are something that most people probably have never even thought of. If you've never heard of this before, and it's something where you did this, you took a seven month mini retirement. And so what kind of inspired you to do that? And then what did you do during that time? And how did it change your perspective of financial independence as well?

I would love to sit here and tell you that the inspiration was positive inspiration, but if I'm being honest with you, I took a sabbatical at the.

[Andrew Powder]

End of 2019, and mostly through just being burnt out.

[Justin Peters]

I was 27 at the time. I'd been working pretty much full time since I was 15. Like, even through high school and college, spring break, summer breaks, weekends, I was trying to fill as much time as I could towards working. And I recognized going into my mid-20s, I was feeling burnt out. And on top of just being overworked from hours, I wasn't doing work that really felt purposeful or aligned either, but I wasn't sure. Like, I was so exhausted every day coming home and I just like, wasn't sure what I wanted to change into. And the thought of, like having to start applying for jobs and looking for new jobs at this time felt overwhelming. And I was having an amazing conversation with somebody.

[Andrew Powder]

I was doing some career exploration.

[Justin Peters]

I thought I might want to do career coaching. So I called up a career coach and he actually flipped the script on me and just started like actually being.

[Andrew Powder]

A career coach to me.

[Justin Peters]

And it was like, hey, Justin, you've.

[Andrew Powder]

Been telling me about this money that.

[Justin Peters]

You saved and that you're unsure what you want to do, like, why don't you just take some time off? And that felt like such a novel idea, especially someone in their mid-20s, but.

[Andrew Powder]

Definitely somebody that has grown up in.

[Justin Peters]

A frugal household where his father was.

[Andrew Powder]

Always telling him, like, you gotta work.

[Justin Peters]

You gotta provide, you gotta be a sense of society, whatever. And I was like wow.

[Andrew Powder]

And it took me about three months.

[Justin Peters]

To really act on some of that advice that he gave me and I was like, you know what, that's actually a really great idea. So I ended up leaving my job, creating a self made sabbatical for myself and I had a ton of things planned. This started January 2020 and of course you can tell how a seven month sabbatical's gotta turn out in 2020. Covid kind of wrecked havoc on a lot of it and canceled a bunch of plans for me, but it was.

[Andrew Powder]

The best decision I ever had.

[Justin Peters]

I reentered the workforce with way more clarity. I started a passion project which was a podcast which turned into now a business and a career of mine. It was the best thing that I ever did and I highly encourage people to do it in their own life too.

This is why I love talking about money so much and this is why personal finance is so powerful is because you were in a job, you were getting burned out, you were working really really hard and then all of a sud this tool that was sitting there that you could actually go out and utilize to buy back your freedom, take that break, refresh and figure out exactly what you want to do. And this is why I love talking about personal finance so much because it is so incredibly powerful what you can do with your money and it gives you so many cool options and optionality and flexibility is why we talk about financial independence so much and why you can do some of this stuff if.

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[Justin Peters]

Else.

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[Justin Peters]

There Someone is considering doing a mini retirement. Maybe they're working right now and they're getting burned out. Or maybe they just want some time to themselves to kind of focus on doing something interesting. Or maybe they want to go travel or whatever else it could be.

[Indeed Advertiser]

What would you recommend to them to.

[Justin Peters]

Make it somewhat of a fulfilling experience?

Yeah, I'll definitely answer that question.

[Andrew Powder]

But just to add on to what you were just saying there too, I.

[Justin Peters]

Want to remind people that all the investing, the savings for your retirement, for your future self can also be applied.

[Andrew Powder]

To your future self tomorrow, not your.

[Justin Peters]

Future Self at 65. For me, personally, looking back on it now, I am so glad that I took that break and I wasn't saving and investing for my future self during that sabbatical. I just didn't have income coming in, so I wasn't prioritizing that. But I would much rather have taken those seven months off now than take those seven months in addition to whatever.

[Andrew Powder]

I'm going to be doing in full retirement.

[Justin Peters]

You know, in my 60s, 70s and 80s. I think it's really important to remind people that all that work that you're doing with your Money.

[Andrew Powder]

Now you can deploy that at any point in time. And of course you need to set.

[Justin Peters]

Yourself up financially in order to do that.

[Andrew Powder]

But if you're feeling burnt out, if you're feeling overwhelmed, don't be afraid to take a mini retirement of any capacity.

[Justin Peters]

At minimum, like maybe going and asking.

[Andrew Powder]

Your employer for two or three or.

[Justin Peters]

Four weeks off and truly taking just a little retirement or a sabbatical I.

[Andrew Powder]

Think is super important.

[Justin Peters]

But if I were to kind of walk it back and talk about the practical, the how first. I mean, I'm so focused on money and so type A that I didn't want to set myself up or sabotage myself and like be forced to like come back into work early because I ran out of money. So I would be looking at your finances and putting aside a certain amount of money for that time. I actually spent way less money than.

[Andrew Powder]

I was expecting to spend.

[Justin Peters]

Part of that was Covid and I.

[Andrew Powder]

Just wasn't able to do all the.

[Justin Peters]

Things that I wanted to do.

[Andrew Powder]

But part of that was also just.

[Justin Peters]

Like, like the things you recognize that you spend money on, like convenience food or terrible times to take a flight, but you have to get back on a Sunday night in order to start working again on a Monday. A lot of those things like kind of came off my plate whenever I was taking my sabbatical and I could take the cheap Tuesday afternoon flight instead of the expensive Sunday flight. So actually I ended up spending $11,000 total throughout this sabbatical in terms of how much money I made versus how much money that I spent.

[Andrew Powder]

And I did make a little extra.

[Justin Peters]

Money just because was I was available.

[Andrew Powder]

And like random projects came up.

[Justin Peters]

Like a speaker was in town and they needed a live audience and they were paying like 500 for you to go to this and be a participant in the live audience for a day. That I would have never said yes to that when I was working full time. But I was kind of bored cuz it was, you know, coming out of.

[Andrew Powder]

COVID and I was like, sure, I'll.

[Justin Peters]

Go sit in an audience. And it was a speaker that I really liked. So first thing first, take care of the money side.

[Andrew Powder]

Make sure that you have enough set.

[Justin Peters]

Aside that you feel really comfortable with that. And then second, really be thinking about what's my intention behind this mini retirement. Is it to take a step back and just decompress and live a little bit slower and get rejuvenated or is.

[Andrew Powder]

It to explore a new interest or hobby?

[Justin Peters]

Like for me, podcasting was super important. I've Always wanted to start a podcast, but I was just too tired to.

[Andrew Powder]

Do it after work hours.

[Justin Peters]

So starting my sabbatical with a project in mind and knowing I wanted to put a lot of focus into that was really important.

[Andrew Powder]

It could be travel or it could.

[Justin Peters]

Be some of the things on your.

[Andrew Powder]

Five bucket list too. Maybe your intention is to set work.

[Justin Peters]

Aside entirely and start crossing off a couple of things that you really want to focus on. Because maybe you're soon to be a.

[Andrew Powder]

Parent and you want to make sure.

[Justin Peters]

That you can spend six months prior to becoming a parent doing some traveling because it's got to be a little bit harder.

[Andrew Powder]

So I think setting some intentionality before you go into your mini retirement will be really important.

[Justin Peters]

So you don't just flounder and waste your time and then six months later you're like, oh, shoot, like I had all this time off, but it wasn't really how I wanted to spend my time off.

And when it comes to the tactical side of this, so when you're thinking about, you know, taking a mini retirement and you want to go through this process and you kind of mapped out some of the things that you want to do, how would you recommend people kind of work backwards when they are looking at the financial side? So would you say, hey, just save X amount of dollars that you, you know, whatever you spend every single month, would you save that amount of money for the amount of months that you want to work? Would you give yourself an extra cushion or how would you personally think about that?

I personally would give myself an extra cushion, I think.

[Andrew Powder]

You never know.

[Justin Peters]

I was looking for employment in late summer of 2020 and that is when.

[Andrew Powder]

There was a ton of layoffs and.

[Justin Peters]

Everybody was looking for a job. So I was really taking a six month sabbatical and ended up being seven just because it took me a little.

[Andrew Powder]

Bit longer to find a job.

[Justin Peters]

So I definitely add a little bit of cushion just for that reason. Or if things are just going great.

[Andrew Powder]

And you want to extend, to have.

[Justin Peters]

That option there I think is great. I would definitely think about what's my monthly expenses currently and then what are some of the big ticket items. If you're going to do some traveling, just add that in from a tactical standpoint, add that into your budget for your many retirement and then on top of that, maybe you're saving some money.

[Andrew Powder]

Leading up to your many retirement, but.

[Justin Peters]

You can do some other things like turn off your auto dividend reinvestments and then you can have some dividend income coming in from your taxable accounts throughout your many retirement that will kind of pad or cushion some of the money that you've already set aside?

Absolutely. I love those ideas. And I think there's a lot of really, really cool things you can do even while you're taking your mini retirement. If there's stuff in your house, you got a little time. If there's stuff in your house that you don't utilize anymore, start selling that stuff and you can kind of get it out of your house declutter, especially if you're looking to kind of minimize some of the possessions that you have in your house and those types of things as well. Now, are there any creative mini retirement ideas that you have? Like, have you ever seen anybody kind of doing this consistently every couple of years? Or have you seen this be something where people will kind of do this, you know, on a yearly basis? Or what are some of your thought processes on that?

Yes, actually, whenever I was taking my sabbatical, I was truly calling it a sabbatical at that time.

[Andrew Powder]

I didn't have the concept of mini.

[Justin Peters]

Retirement in my head yet until I interviewed Jillian Johnsrud. And she was the one that kind of put these words into my mouth around many retirements.

[Andrew Powder]

And she's a great poster child.

[Justin Peters]

I think she's like maybe in her.

[Andrew Powder]

40S or something, been pursuing financial independence.

[Justin Peters]

For like 20 years. And she's taken 12 mini retirements throughout that time. Like every year or two, she's like intentionally taking a retirement, and they've been for completely different reasons. I think her most recent, if I'm remembering right, is she really wanted to redesign her backyard. And she lives on a couple of acres, so she wanted to have an orchid back there and some gardening and a bunch of different things. And she just wanted to like take a couple of months off to really prioritize on building out that entire backyard. She's also wanted to do a national park tour and go to all the national parks with her and her family. So she did a mini retirement on that.

[Andrew Powder]

And then I know her husband took.

[Justin Peters]

A mini retirement because I think he wanted to get into like automotive repair, but he needed to go back to.

[Andrew Powder]

School to learn some of those skills. So he just took some time off.

[Justin Peters]

Went back to school. He could a hundred percent focus on.

[Andrew Powder]

Getting the certificate or this degree that he needed in order to step into this new career.

[Justin Peters]

So it's like three totally different concepts.

[Andrew Powder]

Around a mini retirement.

[Justin Peters]

And she's done them all, which is super cool.

And that's the other cool thing about being able to do some of this kind of stuff if you have, you know, someone who you're married to or you have a spouse in your life or someone you live with and you kind of share the bills. Like, one of you can take a mini retirement while the other one's still working and there's income coming in, then kind of reverse it if you want to, if you're not doing specific activities where you both need to take that many retirements. So there's a lot of cool options here that I think a lot of people have if they want to kind of branch out and get creative with this. The cool thing about personal finance, this is why I love financial independence, is it's really creative. And so there's so many people out there who kind of create flexibility in their life and they can do so many great things with their money, buying back their time.

Even geo arbitrage comes in a lot with many retirements. Like maybe you do like traveling is your focus, your intention for your many retirement. And you going to stay over in Asia for six months is probably got.

[Andrew Powder]

To drastically reduce your cost or your.

[Justin Peters]

Expenses on a monthly basis too.

[Andrew Powder]

So I almost see people like pairing.

[Justin Peters]

Up really cool, like personal finance tactics like geo arbitrage with something like a mini retirement.

[Andrew Powder]

And then maybe they only need to.

[Justin Peters]

Save like 50% of what they were expecting to save versus like 100% if they were to take that time off in the U.S. i love that.

And I think that's another great idea. I remember like back, you know, 10 or so years ago, a lot of people would go to Thailand, for example, because the exchange rate was such a drastic exchange rate between the dollar and so you could live on so much cheaper there than you could, you know, in the US and so people would go there, they would start, you know, online businesses or things like that as well, just to see if it would work. And it was a really cool concept, I think that a lot of people would be able to go out and do. So I love the thought process there. And I think there's so many cool things that you can do. It gives you flexibility. Now there's another concept that you talk about called basically gamifying savings. And I love thinking through this a little bit too, because I think a lot of people kind of think of savings as something boring. They're just putting money into, you know, their retirement accounts or they're saving in their emergency fund, but they don't think of a way to kind of make this motivating and interesting to them. So how can people kind of reward themselves along the way when they're trying to reach their financial independence goals?

This has been a huge one, a.

[Andrew Powder]

Powerful one, in Andrew Gianna Cola's words.

[Justin Peters]

For really making financial independence achievable and.

[Andrew Powder]

Fun is gamifying the process. Like, who doesn't love a game?

[Justin Peters]

And I think this one really stuck.

[Andrew Powder]

With me whenever I interviewed Justin Brown woods from Price of Avocado Toast.

[Justin Peters]

He is a former teacher and he uses a lot of gamification in his.

[Andrew Powder]

Classroom to teach ideas.

[Justin Peters]

And that really stuck with me. And I started figuring out, how do I gamify my own financial independence journey.

[Andrew Powder]

And make this more fun and exciting?

[Justin Peters]

I mean, the concept's simple, I think. Figure out, what are you trying to get to. Is it a debt payoff number? Is it a financial independence number?

[Andrew Powder]

Whatever it may be, it could be even like saving for a down payment.

[Justin Peters]

Or a new car or something. And break that up. I like to break it up in like 10 different milestones. And then throughout that process, reward yourself.

[Andrew Powder]

Whenever you're hitting each of those milestones.

[Justin Peters]

So maybe you're trying to reach financial independence. You want to get to a million dollars, and every a hundred thousand you.

[Andrew Powder]

Reward yourself, and you dictate the reward. Maybe you look at your five bucket list and you pick 10 things off.

[Justin Peters]

That list and you're going to say, okay, every time I hit a new hundred thousand dollar mark in my net worth, I'm going to cross off one of these big bucket list items. I'm going to go take that vacation over to Tokyo, or I'm going to.

[Andrew Powder]

Invest in this course that I've always.

[Justin Peters]

Wanted to take, et cetera.

[Andrew Powder]

So I think there are tons of.

[Justin Peters]

Different ways that you can gamify it. And I'm one that I'm doing currently, which I find really fine, is I force myself for every $10 that I save, intentionally spending one of those dollars too. So, like, if this month I'm netting a thousand dollars and you know 900 of that is going to go into my IRA, I have to spend a.

[Andrew Powder]

Hundred of it on something else.

[Justin Peters]

And right now I like a true 90s boy. I'm back into collecting Pokemon cards. So I just essentially go and blow it on buying new Pokemon cards. But it's been so fun at the.

[Andrew Powder]

End of every month to like, start.

[Justin Peters]

To reconcile all my expenses and be like, ooh, how much do I get to spend this month?

I love that. And I think that's one of those things if you're someone, like how Justin And I probably are. When we were, you know, early 20s, and we were really frugal, and you have a hard time spending money. That's a great way to kind of look at that, too, is to kind of force yourself to spend money so you get more comfortable with it, because spending money is a skill. And if you can start to develop that skill over time and start to spend those dollars on things that you value, it'll absolutely change the way that you see money going forward, which I love. So that's absolutely amazing. Now you have another game called the save and match game. What is that about? Tell me about that more.

Yeah, I think that was a little bit of what I was talking about.

[Andrew Powder]

From the spending piece to it.

[Justin Peters]

But you could flip it, too. You kind of have to know or recognize who you are. Are you the frugalite, the super saver?

[Andrew Powder]

Are you the spender?

[Justin Peters]

And whichever you are, kind of apply the opposite or the inverse. So for me, once again, like you were saying, I grew up really frugal. I really have a hard time spending money on things that I find are more like wants than they are needs. So I did this forced, like, okay, for every $9 that I save, the next dollar has to be spent. You could do the opposite, though, you know, do a save and match. So for every $50 that you spend.

[Andrew Powder]

Maybe you are the spender.

[Justin Peters]

So you go out, you go shopping, you spend $50, take another $50, and put it into investing or saving for your future.

I love that. I think that's the. That's the absolute way to kind of look at this. And we even talk about this all the time, where we want you kind of spending in a certain range for your things that are your necessities. And we want you to save and invest at least 20% plus on your income, but then we want the rest of those dollars to be spent on things that you absolutely love. And if you can get your income high enough and get your, you know, necessities low enough, you can really spend a lot of money on things that you actually absolutely love. And it's just figuring out that game and kind of that adjustment based on your budget and how much you spend every single month. So how does pairing rewards with your fi bucket list kind of. Is that something that you do is when you're, say, for example, you want to save that million dollars and you hit your first hundred thousand, would you kind of take something off your 5 bucket list and look at that and say, hey, I want to go on the vacation that's at the top of my list. Or how would you kind of think about pairing those two together?

[Andrew Powder]

100%.

[Justin Peters]

This is why I think all three of these concepts that we talked about around many retirements, gamification and the five bucket list, they can kind of work interchangeably. And I think it's super powerful in that sense.

[Andrew Powder]

But yeah, I think your 5 bucket list can be your reward system.

[Justin Peters]

I think you should be prioritizing the.

[Andrew Powder]

Things that you're adding to that five bucket list. So if you're doing the save and.

[Justin Peters]

Match program, then maybe you are like.

[Andrew Powder]

For every dollar that you spend on eating out or for clothes or whatever.

[Justin Peters]

You put a dollar into your Tokyo bucket and whenever you start, you finally reach that number, go and spend or go and actually take that trip. So I definitely think you should be.

[Andrew Powder]

Pairing up the five bucket list with your gamification process.

[Justin Peters]

I love that. Now I want to shift gears here to another thing that you talk about, which is the five flex schedule. And I think this is one. It's along the same exact lines of what we've been talking about thus far. But I think this is something else where people probably have not thought about this a ton, where it can kind of creatively create gaps and space within your schedule so you don't feel like you're just burning yourself out all the time. So can you kind of explain what the 5 Flex schedule is and how people can build more freedom in their work week before reaching full financial independence?

Yeah. Whenever I ask people, like the reason why they want to hit a certain net worth number or why they're so.

[Andrew Powder]

Focused on saving and investing for their.

[Justin Peters]

Future self, I hear two F words.

[Andrew Powder]

And it's not Ferrari. Like Ferrari never comes up. They don't want to buy a nice expensive car.

[Justin Peters]

I, I almost always hear freedom and flexibility. Those are the two things that I hear people are they want to accumulate enough money so that optionality becomes super.

[Andrew Powder]

Apparent to them and they're not forced.

[Justin Peters]

Into a certain job, they're not forced into a certain work schedule, et cetera. So I think as you are getting closer and closer to financial independence, you.

[Andrew Powder]

Should start to adopt a five flex schedule.

[Justin Peters]

And what I mean by this is once again that habit section on my five bucket list.

[Andrew Powder]

Those things should start to become more and more clear and more and more evident in your daily life.

[Justin Peters]

And that's why I put this like 3:30 rule on my calendar where I have to go outside at 3:30 if it's a nice day out is because one of the habits That I wanted.

[Andrew Powder]

To do was spend more time outside.

[Justin Peters]

And I love going outside when it's a nice sunny day out and I'm like, why do I need to wait until post financial independence?

[Andrew Powder]

How can I start to embed some of that into my current schedule?

[Justin Peters]

Like there's nothing holding me back.

[Andrew Powder]

I very rarely have meetings after 3:30 most days unless I'm working with someone.

[Justin Peters]

On the east coast or somewhere else. So what's holding me back from like.

[Andrew Powder]

Doing that last hour or two of.

[Justin Peters]

Work right now versus eight or nine o'clock or just tomorrow in all honesty.

[Andrew Powder]

So I like to be thinking through.

[Justin Peters]

Like what is your ideal day look.

[Andrew Powder]

Like if money wasn't an issue? Like if you didn't have to work, if you didn't need to show up.

[Justin Peters]

To that 9 to 5. Now let's start to reverse engineer that and figure out throughout this process how.

[Andrew Powder]

Can we start to add more of.

[Justin Peters]

That into your day to day.

[Andrew Powder]

So it could be a silly rule.

[Justin Peters]

Like mine where you're off at 3:30 if it's a nice day. Uh, maybe you're somebody that doesn't like.

[Andrew Powder]

To do meetings a lot. So you do no meetings before 10am or meetingless Mondays. Like that could be something that you.

[Justin Peters]

Try to add in. Or like you don't have to work.

[Andrew Powder]

Full time but you still want to work a little bit.

[Justin Peters]

Can you negotiate from a five day.

[Andrew Powder]

To a four day or a three day?

[Justin Peters]

Like, like I think starting to think.

[Andrew Powder]

Through what your ideal day or week or month looks like whenever you are in your retirement stage.

[Justin Peters]

How can you start to add some of those things right now as you're pursuing financial independence?

I completely agree. And I do this exercise quarterly. So I go every single quarter and I will go back and look at what is my ideal day. What exactly would I do if I had a perfect day? Maybe it's being productive. And sometimes I'll do it on a workday and I'll do it on a weekend and I'll pull out a piece of paper and I will go through and actually map out my exact perfect day and then I will go back because I do my goals quarterly, I do them every 12 weeks and I will go back and look at my goals every single month and I will say how can I make sure that my goals are going towards this perfect day? And so I go and I will look at that every single quarter. Because this is so incredibly important I think is to create that flexibility. And so a lot of rules have come out of just doing this exercise. For example, like what you were just talking about. I take take zero meetings typically, except for on Mondays before noon. And the reason I do that is because that's my most productive time. And so for me specifically, I want to make sure I can do all of my deep work before that timeframe. A lot of other things came out of that as well, like making sure that when I am done with work later on in the day and that gap where I'm spending time with my kids, I just do not have any, you know, electronics or anything around me during that timeframe because I want to be present. There's a lot of different things that kind of have developed over that time frame. Even when it comes to health and fitness. I wanted to prioritize health and fitness and make sure it is one of my top priorities. So what does that look like? When can I do that? What are some timeframes? I can do that. And so I try to integrate all of that into this to make sure you have the time available for this. And that's what I love about flex scheduling as well, is because if you want to take time for yourself or you want to have some flexibility, you can do that, you can map it out, but it's just kind of being intentional when it comes to this. So what are some boundaries that you set? Are there specific boundaries that you set for yourself when it comes to flex scheduling? And what are some thoughts or things that you have surrounding that and how has it impacted your productivity as well?

Yeah, I mentioned the no meetings before 10am that's definitely something I do my best. Deep work is before 10am I usually.

[Andrew Powder]

About 7 to 10 ish.

[Justin Peters]

I like to be focused on that.

[Andrew Powder]

One or two important projects that are.

[Justin Peters]

Really gotta move the needle. Um, so that's an important boundary for me. The 3:30 nice day rule is a.

[Andrew Powder]

Big boundary of mine.

[Justin Peters]

I try not to do anything on.

[Andrew Powder]

Sunday that I wouldn't want to do.

[Justin Peters]

Like just for fun. So if there's like a project, I'm really excited and I've just been itching to get into it. I'll work on it on a Sunday, but I do nothing.

[Andrew Powder]

I don't schedule any meetings.

[Justin Peters]

I don't really even schedule anything with friends on Sunday. Like I just want to like wake.

[Andrew Powder]

Up on a Sunday and whatever I'm.

[Justin Peters]

Feeling like doing is what I want to do that day.

[Andrew Powder]

And sometimes it is hang out with friends. It's.

[Justin Peters]

Sometimes it is. Is a project that I've like really been itching to do, but I couldn't make time for it this week. But yeah, my Sunday free day is.

[Andrew Powder]

A huge goal of mine and it.

[Justin Peters]

Just helps level set and get me.

[Andrew Powder]

Right for Monday morning.

[Justin Peters]

And then I, I go hard again on Monday morning. Cause I'm like usually ready to start working again now.

If somebody wants more flexibility in their schedule, maybe they want to just have more time for themselves or maybe they want a day where they can focus on productivity or maybe it's a side hustle or something else. How can they negotiate this? What are some things that they could do? Could they negotiate a four day work week with their boss? Could they negotiate working from home? Or what are your thoughts on that? On how they could maybe create more flexibility in their schedule if they're working a hard 9 to 5 right now?

I think both of those suggestions that.

[Andrew Powder]

You just mentioned there, the four day.

[Justin Peters]

Work week or a work from home day, if that's important to you.

[Andrew Powder]

Um, it could be the, the no meetings before 10.

[Justin Peters]

And you know, I, whenever I was working I let my boss know this and she's like, yeah, that totally makes sense for me. I'd much rather you like focus on the needle moving projects than then be at meetings. So if you want to block your calendar prior to 10, cool. As long as, like, if anything urgent.

[Andrew Powder]

Comes up, I can reach out to.

[Justin Peters]

You during that time, that's great.

[Andrew Powder]

So I think most bosses would be pretty receptive to this.

[Justin Peters]

If you have a logical argument for it and you're a top performer and it probably goes hand in hand with.

[Andrew Powder]

Your plan for negotiating a raise, you.

[Justin Peters]

Can negotiate other things, not just monetary.

[Andrew Powder]

Things, but negotiate other things. So if they pair that with your.

[Justin Peters]

Process for negotiating a raise, but, but.

[Andrew Powder]

Instead they negotiate a work from home policy or a four day work week.

[Justin Peters]

You know, proving that you're a top.

[Andrew Powder]

Performer and that you can still get your things done and the boundaries that.

[Justin Peters]

You set and demonstrating why these new.

[Andrew Powder]

Boundaries that you are setting are going.

[Justin Peters]

To improve your productivity, it's an easy yes for me as a manager.

Absolutely. And I think that's one of those things that a lot of managers will look at that and be able to kind of see that outcome. And especially if they're, they're looking at this in a logical way and be able to do that. I have a very close friend who's a very high performer at a really large national bank. And here's a great example of this. And he's a pickleball addict. Like he's obsessed with pickleball and he figured out a way to block off his calendar in the morning, where from like 7am to 10am they allow him to go play pickleball if he wants to play pickleball. And he does that every single day. And then he's a really high performer the rest of the day. But he created this flexibility into his schedule. Even though he works a standard nine to five, he figured out how to create flexibility in his schedule because he's such a high performer. So there's so many different examples of that where you can kind of do some pretty cool things as well. So I think I love having a flexible schedule and it just creates more fulfillment and it kind of reduces stress and anxiety and everything else around your job.

[Andrew Powder]

This is the fun part of being a part of the financial independence movement.

[Justin Peters]

So many people think differently about work.

[Andrew Powder]

Like they're kind of prioritizing their life and then they're fitting work into their.

[Justin Peters]

Life versus the reverse. So many people have to like fit their life around work.

[Andrew Powder]

And the 9 to 5 schedule is.

[Justin Peters]

Just not optimal for everybody. Like if you're, if you're a parent.

[Andrew Powder]

You might need a different kind of flexibility.

[Justin Peters]

Or someone. I was at Economy conference, which is a financial independence conference. I was just there and it was so fun talking to all these nomads or van lifers or RV living type people and how they're doing work.

[Andrew Powder]

But they're like doing work on their own terms or their own schedule and they've negotiated.

[Justin Peters]

I'm going to work out of my camper van for a month and not be in the office. And I love that money, that fu. Money that you build over time kind of gives you the opportunity to be like, this is my proposition and if you can't fit into that, it totally makes sense.

[Andrew Powder]

That's fair.

[Justin Peters]

That's fine if you guys got rules at this company. But like I'm willing to walk away in order to get this 5 flexibility that I want and find a different job that might fit.

How do you see things like when people will kind of create some of this flexibility? Do you think there are seasons and times where you need to kind of put your foot on the gas and really, really work hard? And then are there times where maybe you take your foot off the gas and you kind of have, have a little more time? For example, maybe you're working on a huge project at your company and you're working 12 hour days for three days in a row or something like that? Crazy. And then do you see that there's times where you can kind of figure out and map this out throughout the year where maybe there are times where you go really, really hard and become that high performer. And then there are other times where you could take your foot off the gas. Maybe it's seasonality or something else or how do you look at things like that?

Yeah, I think that was really well said. And I don't even think five flex schedules have to be like a permanent or ongoing thing.

[Andrew Powder]

It could be a seasonality thing too.

[Justin Peters]

Like tax prep people, I am guessing.

[Andrew Powder]

They are super busy from January to May, June ish.

[Justin Peters]

And they can probably have a lot more flexibility to negotiate a five flex schedule.

[Andrew Powder]

July till the end of the year.

[Justin Peters]

Like they might have to take client meetings, they might have to do some extended tax stuff or do some coaching with clients, but they probably have a lot of opportunity to build in some of these things knowing that they're probably going to be a little overworked coming out of the tax season too. And I think that would totally make sense.

[Andrew Powder]

And so many other jobs.

[Justin Peters]

It's the same way a lot of things shut down after Thanksgiving. Like that Thanksgiving to New Year's timeframe. People are doing like business critical or BAU type stuff. But like everything else projects, they kind.

[Andrew Powder]

Of like fall by the wayside. So that might be a good time. Like maybe from Christmas to New Year's.

[Justin Peters]

You can take off and you can.

[Andrew Powder]

Build in some flexibility or you can.

[Justin Peters]

Drop down to four days a week during that five or six day period.

[Andrew Powder]

Or through the summer if you're.

[Justin Peters]

I mean there are so many opportunities.

[Andrew Powder]

Dependent on your occupation and career path that you might be able to strategically.

[Justin Peters]

Think through where can I add or make this ask? That wouldn't even be a hard ask because of my occupation or industry recognizes that there needs to be a little flexibility here.

Absolutely. I even think, you know, I know guys that were in sales, for example, who, you know, the first six months out of the year they have to hit these quotas, but once they hit that quota, they can kind of take their foot off the gas and almost kind of do nothing for the second half of the year. And I think there's just so many jobs like that where people can look at ways to develop these systems and put this together where you can figure out, hey, I put my foot on the gas for a couple of months, then I take it off, then I put my foot in the gas for a couple months and take it off. And there's some fulfillment with that as well. I think achieving things is one of those things. Especially if you're type A like Justin and I are achieving, some of those things are really, really impactful in your life. But then you also want to make sure that you give yourself time to recharge, rest, relax, those types of things, for sure. So I think that's a big, big difference. I want to shift gears here to questions that we ask a lot of our guests. And these are some of my favorite questions to ask our guests. Sometimes we mix them up at times as well, but I just wanted to kind of get some of your answers on this as we go through this. So what part of your work or life makes you come alive?

Ooh, podcasting. I absolutely love podcasting.

[Andrew Powder]

I've interviewed you twice, and I hope.

[Justin Peters]

It comes across whenever I'm. I'm interviewing you, but doing prep research.

[Andrew Powder]

For my interviews and then having the.

[Justin Peters]

Conversation, I'm usually so stoked to finally have that conversation. Cause I've done eight, ten hours of.

[Andrew Powder]

Prep leading up to this. I've learned so much from this guest.

[Justin Peters]

That I'm like, super stoked to have the conversation. So, yeah, I. I light up anytime I get to do stuff with podcasting.

Absolutely. And Justin is one of the most prepared podcast hosts I've ever seen. So it is absolutely amazing when you do that, which I absolutely love. What is your biggest fear when it comes to money?

Probably running out of it. That might be cliche, but I think I am slowly trying to overcome a scarcity mindset.

[Andrew Powder]

I think so many people that grew.

[Justin Peters]

Up frugal probably have to overcome this and just running out of money. I'm that dude. That's like, every month I rerun the.

[Andrew Powder]

Numbers, although they didn't change that much.

[Justin Peters]

And I'm just like, you know what, Justin? Just like, let.

[Andrew Powder]

Let it go.

[Justin Peters]

Like, you're gonna be fine.

[Andrew Powder]

You're super smart.

[Justin Peters]

You know how to make money. You can always retreat back and live probably 30, 40, $50,000 lifestyle if you need to. Like, it is okay. You are so smart and adaptable. You don't need to be worrying about money anymore.

I struggle with this same exact thing. And I still, even today, like, still just think about that all the time. What if I run out? What if it all disappears? So it's just one of those things. I think a lot of people have that same kind of thought process when it comes to one of their biggest fears, for sure. How do you plan to level up your finances this year?

Ooh, the big thing that I've been.

[Andrew Powder]

Doing this year is simplifying.

[Justin Peters]

Like, I'm trying not to Optimize too much with like credit cards here and here and my high yield savings account over there. Like I was like, I really just want to like log into one place, kind of get like the most optimal but simple approach. So like I've been consolidating a lot of things into one or two or.

[Andrew Powder]

Three providers and not necessarily card chasing.

[Justin Peters]

Or doing anything like that. Like I love interviewing travel hackers. Chris Hutchinson's coming on the show next week and I'm super stoked to pick his brain about some of this things. But also as I'm approaching financial independence, I'm like it, it just matters less to me and I'd rather just have.

[Andrew Powder]

Some peace of mind and simplicity whenever.

[Justin Peters]

It comes to my finances.

Absolutely. That is the number one thing that I try to tell people as well is try to simplify, reduce the amount of accounts that you have, put them all in one place, just make it easier on your life because just rate chasing on high yield savings accounts or whatever else is just really, really something that unless some people love it, if you absolutely love it, then go for it. More power to you. But for me, I'm not one of those people either. So I just kind of, hey, I've had the same high yield savings account for years now and it's just one of those things that I'm not willing to rate chase anymore. Now if it's a big drastic difference, obviously I would. But I agree with you. Simplification is a, a definite way to level up your finances and make it much, much easier. So what legacy? At some point in time, when you have kids, what legacy do you want to leave your kids if you had them?

I am very appreciative. My dad and everything he did for me, setting me up for personal finance. Like I'm 31 here, I probably don't.

[Andrew Powder]

Really have to worry about money too much the rest of my life.

[Justin Peters]

And I almost give a hundred percent of that credit to my dad.

[Andrew Powder]

He instilled a hard working mindset into.

[Justin Peters]

Me, a super saver mentality. But the one thing that I'd really like to encourage my kids to is.

[Andrew Powder]

To find some balance between setting up.

[Justin Peters]

Your future self and really, really enjoying the current moments. And I don't regret a ton in my life, but there are moments that I wish I would have gotten a push from a different direction.

[Andrew Powder]

The other side of the pendulum.

[Justin Peters]

That said, hey, you know, like go.

[Andrew Powder]

Study abroad, like you don't have to.

[Justin Peters]

Worry about working this semester.

[Andrew Powder]

Like that's totally fine.

[Justin Peters]

Or even the push into My sabbatical, like it kind of took me a little bit longer, although I probably knew.

[Andrew Powder]

It three months prior.

[Justin Peters]

Like I wish someone kind of just.

[Andrew Powder]

Shoved me straight into it.

[Justin Peters]

And I think a lot of that was just stemmed from, from a little bit of scarcity mindset that I was.

[Andrew Powder]

Talking about and not wanting to disappoint my parents.

[Justin Peters]

So I just want to find a good balance with my kids of like.

[Andrew Powder]

Taking care of your future self and being able to be independent, but also.

[Justin Peters]

Like enjoying the life because tomorrow is not for certain.

I love that that what is the best money advice you've ever received?

Probably a recent one is you can always make more money, but you can't get more time back. And I've been trying to instill a little bit more of that. I mean I have so much great.

[Andrew Powder]

Wisdom throughout the entire year or throughout.

[Justin Peters]

The last couple of decades that at.

[Andrew Powder]

That moment was really, really important.

[Justin Peters]

But for the piece of advice that's really resonating right now, that was given to me and that's really had me rethinking a lot of stuff right now.

I think about that a lot too and I think it's one of those things that time is something that I think most people don't think enough about. And for the most part, if you look at everybody who is on their deathbed, the biggest thing they regret, it's always time related. And a lot of times I think most of us probably need to either think through our time, it'll almost keep like a time budget type of thing because it's so important, it's so precious and it goes by so fast. I even like see my kids lives and how my oldest is almost seven now. And it's just one of those things where I felt like we just had him and it's crazy because he's like almost 50% of the way out of our house. So it's just a crazy process. And it's so interesting that if we don't value our time, it's going to be something we all regret. So I think that's a huge one for sure. The last one is my favorite and this is one we've gotten some cool answers on. But what does wealth mean to you?

Ooh, freedom, Freedom, optionality, flexibility. All three of those words are super important to me whenever I think about wealth. It's not necessarily the person with with.

[Andrew Powder]

The most amount of commas in their.

[Justin Peters]

Net worth, but the person that has the most amount of flexibility, freedom and.

[Andrew Powder]

Optionality whenever it comes to how they're.

[Justin Peters]

Spending their time day to day.

I love that. And I think you embody this throughout this entire episode, I think for sure. Just showing, you know, how much freedom that you can kind of develop just by building wealth over time. Well, Justin, this has been absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for coming on here. Where can people find out more about you, your podcast and everything else?

[Andrew Powder]

Yeah, five minded on any of the.

[Justin Peters]

Podcast players, whatever you're listening to right now, I'd love it if you came and checked it out. The most recent episode is probably with Andrew. We talked about how to double your.

[Andrew Powder]

Income in one year. He gave some really good tips and.

[Justin Peters]

Tactics on how to do that. But for all the things around achieving financial independence and having fun while you're doing it, come check out Fine minded.

Absolutely. And I highly, highly recommend it. It is amazing show. So everybody please go check it out. Thank you, Justin, again so much for being here and I can't wait to have you back.