Ostrovsky's Mossad 'Deception' Books w/ Philos Miscellany

Summary

The Pete Quiñones Show

Ostrovsky’s Mossad ‘Deception’ Books w/ Philos Miscellany

Date: July 30, 2026
Host: Peter R. Quiñones
Guest: Philos Miscellany

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Episode Overview

This two-part episode deeply analyzes Victor Ostrovsky’s controversial exposés on Israel’s Mossad: By Way of Deception (1990) and its sequel, The Other Side of Deception (1994). Philos—a former Jew with years living and studying in Israel—draws from first-hand cultural experience to examine the books’ claims, their political and historical context, and their resonance with contemporary geopolitics. The discussion critically addresses Mossad’s operational reality, the unique "Sayanim" network, high-profile espionage scandals, overlaps between Israeli and US interests, and the enduring nature of the networks and personalities described in Ostrovsky’s works.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Ostrovsky’s Mossad Exposés

[01:11] Philos introduces the books:

• By Way of Deception is Ostrovsky’s 1990 memoir about Mossad’s inner workings.
• After facing criticism over sensationalism and credibility, Ostrovsky published a second volume, The Other Side of Deception (1994).
• The books offer a rare inside account of Mossad’s operations from an actual former agent—an anomaly given Israel’s cultural aversion to whistleblowers.

Philos:
"I could not believe it was published, frankly, because of how much detail the book provides on the internal operations of the Mossad... this is probably the best internal look at the Mossad that any English speaking audience is ever going to get." [01:17]

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2. The Myth vs. Reality: Portrayal of Mossad Agents

[05:39] Philos counters the 'superman' Mossad myth:

• Contrary to popular depictions, Ostrovsky’s Mossad is plagued by dysfunction, infighting, corruption, and mediocrity.
• Most agents are described as self-serving, "lecherous psychopaths" rather than flawless warriors.
• Ostrovsky’s brief tenure (14 months) tempers the book’s authority but exposes critical flaws in the agency's culture.

Philos:
"Each agent is... described in some manner or another as a money seeking, sort of lecherous psychopath... the portrayal... of Mossad and Israelis is kind of as these... Superman... hyper intelligent, socially fluid, seductive... And from the Israeli perspective, this is a net positive. I mean, if I was in the CIA, I would prefer it if everyone else would think that my agents were perfect, amazing warriors with no fears or insecurities..." [05:39]

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3. Motivation and Impact of Ostrovsky’s Whistleblowing

[08:25] Motives for the exposé:

• Personal grievances against Mossad insiders, desire for agency reform, or both.
• Unique in Israel, where going public with secrets often means ostracization or worse.
• Despite harsh revelations, Ostrovsky remains alive and uncompromised—possibly due to high-level protection or the Israeli tendency toward damage control.

Philos:
"The whistleblower culture is not existing in Israel the way it exists in Western democracies... if you go public with information in Israel, you can expect your character to be destroyed..." [09:23]

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4. Mossad Operational Structure & Sayanim Network

[16:07] Mossad’s size and resourcefulness:

• At time of publication (~1990), Mossad had about 1,200 employees, with only 30-35 case officers (Katsa) worldwide.
• To compensate, Mossad relies heavily on the ‘Sayanim’—a global network of diaspora Jews offering informal assistance (housing, funds, surveillance, logistics, etc.), unpaid and often unwitting of operational risk.

Philos:
"Primarily they rely on a broader network of international Jews to assist them in their operations called the Sayanim... a Mossad agent is going to choose basically someone who works either high up in a Jewish organization... Any number of different people or demographic elements of Jews everywhere in the world can be selected at any point to aid the Mossad." [17:26/19:35]

Notable Quote (Ostrovsky, from the book):
"You have at your disposal a non-risk recruitment system that actually gives you a pool of millions of Jewish people to tap from outside your own borders." [86:00 in book | ~1:30:00 in episode]

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5. Mossad’s Global Operations: Methods and Impact

Espionage Across Borders

• Operations often conducted with informal assistance, collecting "human intelligence" with minimal danger to helpers.
• Sayanim system has no parallel; no Western country could replicate the seamless access provided by ethnic/religious networks.

Philos:
"No other intelligence agency globally has the advantage that the Mossad has in the Sayanim... If I’m a CIA agent, I have no on-the-ground support." [101:39]

Arms Dealing and Leverage

[73:55] Philos:

• Israel sells American weapons (intended for self-defense) to third countries, often circumventing US restrictions.
• Example: Sales of US-supplied Skyhawk fighters to Indonesia and F-4 Phantom parts to Iran.
• This arms trade cements geopolitical influence and financial autonomy.

Notable Quote:
"We have to give more military aid and financial aid to Israel, you see, because they need it—even though they’re selling [US weaponry]..." [114:32]

Use of Blackmail & Sensational Operations

• Not all Mossad operations are ‘clean’—information is extracted by blackmail, sex, assassination if necessary.
• Example: Operation Sphinx—destruction of Iraq’s nuclear reactor involved the seduction and murder of key figures.

Geopolitical Manipulation

[198:05] Philos on Saddam Hussein:

• Mossad manipulated negotiations and Western media narratives to ensure the US, not Israel, took on Saddam Hussein.
• Ostrovsky claims Mossad supplied disinformation and pushed the US toward war—an early foreshadowing of the disastrous Iraq invasion.

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6. Key Scandals and High-Profile Individuals

Robert Maxwell Affair

[128:51, ~2:08:00]

• Ostrovsky describes the Mossad’s relationship with media mogul Robert Maxwell, codenamed "The Little Czech," who funneled illicit funds and ultimately became expendable.
• Maxwell’s ties to Mossad became a liability; Ostrovsky alleges his suspicious 1991 death was a Mossad elimination to cover deeper secrets.

Notable Quote (Ostrovsky):
"He had done more for Israel than can today be said. Prime Minister Shamir eulogized at Maxwell’s burial." [135:00]

Jonathan Pollard Spy Case

[150:26]

• Pollard, a US Navy intelligence analyst, spied for Israel out of ideological zeal.
• Ostrovsky details his recruitment, the US’s outrage, Israeli steadfastness, and his eventual elevation to Israeli hero upon release.
• "How many Jews do you know in America who are willing to be branded a traitor and spend time in prison for the glory of Israel?"
• The handler, Sella, was never extradited, later promoted—showing the enduring power structures Ostrovsky describes.

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7. Cultural and Political Critique

Mossad as an Unaccountable Power

• Ostrovsky and Philos repeatedly stress that Mossad is politically unaccountable in a country without a constitution and unique civil-military relations.
• Mossad sets the agenda, not politicians.
• Israeli politics, once more pluralistic, have shifted into a continuous right-wing–Zionist dominance since the late 1970s, with leading figures like Netanyahu inheriting traditions and networks described in the books.

Critique of the Zionist Project

• Philos’s journey from believer to apostate is mirrored in his analysis of Ostrovsky’s disillusionment.
• The show closes with concerns over Israeli strategic shortsightedness, the alienation of Jews from Zionism, and the global resentment stoked by ‘anti-antisemitism’ as a universal cudgel.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sayanim:
  “These Sayanim... live abroad, and although they are not Israeli citizens, many are reached through their relatives in Israel. An Israeli with a relative in England, for example, might be asked to write a letter saying the person bearing the letter represents an organization whose main goal is to help save Jewish people in the diaspora... In London alone, there are about 2,000 who are active and another 5,000 on the list.” [86:00, ~1:35:00]

• On Risk and Motive:
  “There are three major hooks for recruiting people. Money, obviously. Emotion—be it revenge or ideology. And sex.” [104:00]

• On Ostrovsky’s Perspective:
  “He asserts that Mossad views the United States, quote, as a tool to its own end, as a playing ground. They have things that we want and we take it.” [156:04]

• On Manufacturing Consent:
  “The American Jewish community was divided into a three-stage action team. First were the individual Sayanim... Then there was the large pro-Israeli lobby... And last was B’nai B’rith. Members could be relied on to make friends among non-Jews and tarnish as anti-Semitic whomever they couldn’t sway to the Israeli cause.” [187:44]

• On Maxwell:
  “His call couldn’t have been more poorly timed... his contact asked him to call back... A small meeting of right wingers at Mossad headquarters resulted in a consensus to terminate Maxwell... Sometime during the night of November 4th to 5th, the Mossad’s problem was laid to rest in the salty waters of the Atlantic... He had done more for Israel than can today be said.” [128:51–137:39]

• On the Continuing Networks:
  “Time passes. People are the same, goals are the same, networks the same.” [166:51]

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Important Timestamps and Segment Highlights

• [01:11] – Introduction to Ostrovsky and context for the book’s publication
• [05:39] – Deconstructing the Mossad mythology; Ostrovsky’s real depiction
• [11:11] – “Meat of the text”: Early 1990s context, rise of tell-all spy literature
• [16:07] – Mossad’s size, structure, and the Sayanim network
• [19:24] – How Sayanim operate and why there’s no foreign agent registration
• [28:30] – Mossad’s practical operations and counterintelligence methods
• [73:55] – Parallels to other intelligence agencies; arms sales as diplomatic leverage
• [128:51] – Full recitation and analysis of the Robert Maxwell chapter
• [150:26] – The Jonathan Pollard spy case—recruitment, scandal, aftermath
• [198:05] – Manipulation of US policy toward Iraq, role in Gulf War buildup
• [208:05] – (Alleged) Mossad plot against President H.W. Bush
• [213:36] – The ongoing nature of these networks and the relevance to today’s geopolitics
• [222:23] – Discussion on current US/Israel/Iran/Lebanon entanglements
• [245:28] – Closing: Philos on the strategic defeat for Israel, lasting impact on US policy

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Contextual and Thematic Takeaways

Continuity of Power Networks

• The individuals and methods exposed by Ostrovsky in the 1990s are, or their successors are, still key players today (e.g., Bibi Netanyahu, Pollard, figures from the Kahanist tradition).
• Pardons, promotions, and continual cover-ups reinforce Mossad’s untouchable status—across decades and presidential administrations.

Structural Advantages and Moral Hazards

• Mossad’s Sayanim network leverages ethnic kinship for unprecedented intelligence reach and operational security, with unique global impact.
• This “diaspora as infrastructure” is both Mossad’s greatest force multiplier and a source of perennial tension with host countries.

Unresolved Dangers & Prognosis

• The books argue that Mossad’s lack of accountability, existential paranoia, and recurrent use of deception and violence have created long-term dangers for both Israel and its allies.
• Philos, echoing Ostrovsky, warns that the repression of dissent and perpetual invocation of antisemitism as a defense threaten both Jewish diaspora cohesion and the legitimacy of the Israeli state.

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Conclusion

Philos dissects Ostrovsky’s depiction of Mossad not just for its historical expose, but as a living playbook for how Israel continues to exert influence far beyond its borders. He warns that the core dynamics—unaccountable power, globalized informal networks, and the manipulation of Western political and economic systems—remain in force and, if anything, are more brazen in the current era. The episode is both a cautionary tale and a primer for those seeking to understand the roots and consequences of modern intelligence, geopolitics, and the tangled Israel–US relationship.

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For Further Listening

• Referenced podcasts: The Inquisition, Star Chamber
• Ostrovsky’s original works: By Way of Deception (1990), The Other Side of Deception (1994)
• Recommended reading: Choke Points by Edward Fishman

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Final Word

Philos (245:28):
"This is the worst miscalculation that Israel has ever made in its history, bar none. That is a positive thing for America... The networks, the people, the methods—nothing has changed except now it’s all out in the open."

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For listeners who want an uncensored, deeply informed take on Mossad, Zionism, and the enduring realities of “intelligence” in the Western world—this is essential listening.

Transcript

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[C]

I want to welcome everyone back to the Picanona Show. Philos is back. Philos, how are you doing tonight?

[D]

I'm doing very well, Pete. It is a absolute pleasure to be back on.

[C]

We. You know, there's. There are some subjects that people request, and then when they request them, I'm like, all right, who. Who can I. Oh, oh, this one. Oh, okay. Most definitely. So, yeah, I think people can see the title of the episode and some may not know exactly what it refers to. So, yeah, I'm just gonna let you jump in.

[D]

Absolutely. So what this book is

[C]

by Way

[D]

of Deception by Victor Ostrovsky. Mr. Ostrovsky published this book in 1990. Later on, when critics came back and told him that many of these facts are face false, the author was being sensational that many things that were published in this book were bullshit. He went out and published a second volume called the Other side of Deception in I believe, 1994. And what these two books are from this author are, on the one hand, you could call them the Israeli equivalent of Tom Clancy. They're rather fantastical in how they're written. But primarily what this is is the autobiographical story of a former Mossad agent. And to my knowledge, it is certainly the most credible source that has been put out there by a confirmed agent. Interestingly, in my several years in Israel, I had never ever heard this book mentioned. And only after coming back to the United States was I able to even see this in Israel. Initially, I thought it was a fiction book because there are so many Christian Zionist writings from the 90s and 2000s out there that portray Israel as fantastically overpowered and invincible. But looking more into this book, especially after several years in that country and receiving an education there, this book blew my mind. I could not believe it was published, frankly, because of how much detail the book provides on the internal operations of the Mossad. Specifically, he has a detailed floor plan of several layers of the Mossad headquarters. He has maps, he has graphics of his routes. And then in his second book, he Includes many pictures of him at various points in his career, which all seem to me to be credible. So I want to say that right at the outset, given my own experience living and working in this area, in this part of Israel, I went through and I looked at the locations that he was at and all the rechavot, all the streets that are named and listed, they all match with what can be described as a credible experience in the country. The information is not current. This is from 1990. So many things about presumably how the Mossad conducts their operations today have changed. But I think for the time being, and frankly, ever since the most recent round of hostilities between Israel and virtually all of its neighbors in some form or another, this is probably the best internal look at the Mossad that any English speaking audience is ever going to get.

[C]

So I guess let's start off with this. You mentioned like Christian Zionist would possibly write a book to try to make it more sensational, make, make them seem like supermen. What's funny is I actually talk to somebody this, this week who is a insider at a Christian organization, let's say a very old Christian organization. If I said the name of it, you would, every, most people would definitely know it. And he basically said that like they take the, they take the, the opinion, the way they talk. They say Christians are stepchildren and Jews are basically supermen. Does this book attempt to paint the Mossad as a. As like the typical Mossad agent is like a super soldier.

[D]

It's the opposite really. It's basically criticizing every aspect of the agents and the agency. Everything from the nature of the Mossad's interactions with its own internal authority structure up to the Prime Minister's office. But also laterally, each agent is for the most part described in some manner or another as a money seeking, sort of lecherous psychopath. And that might seem kind of hyperbolic and I want to just be very even handed about this. The author did not do something like a full term of enlistment in the Mossad or did not have like a 20 year career in espionage. This is someone who was in, I believe for about 14 months between 1984 and 1986 and depending on his ouster either. According to his Wikipedia, he was fired for insubordination from the Mossad. I believe, according to the actual book itself, he was terminated because he blew or almost blew one of his operations. And I think that the portrayal since this book actually of both Mossad and Israelis is kind of as these. Yeah, I mean, without being too like straightforward about It Superman, you know, extremely responsive agents, hyper intelligent, socially fluid, seductive, you know, any positive quality with no negative quality. And you have to also understand that from the Israeli perspective, this is a net positive. I mean, if I was in the CIA, I would prefer it if everyone else would think that my agents were perfect, amazing warriors with no fears or insecurities or flaws of any kind. I mean, it's a better position to be in when you're being thought of by someone who's in your out group.

[C]

Before I ask you to start getting into the, you know, the specifics of the book and what he lays out, do you think his purpose for writing the book was to. If he saw the Agency as weak, I mean, degenerate, whatever the purpose of the book was to try to get them to change and become, you know, more competent?

[D]

I believe so. I mean, part of it is also, you have to understand, I guess there's a couple of perspectives on this perspective. One, people that he was presumably personally aggrieved against in the Agency he would want to see out. I mean, he names each person that he interacts with in this book with presumably their first and last name. I mean, we can't verify if this is their real name or not, but that's way too much detail for conventional tradecraft. You would never ever. I mean, you would do a pseudonym at best. But to have a first and last name is a very strange tell. Especially when Israelis are not dealing in names that are. Joe Smith, for example. They're not common names. These are easily identifiable from one another. And I think that there's so much operational information present in the book that I think it genuinely did within the Mossad inspire a professionalism change. Whether that was a reaction because of embarrassment or a reaction because of the author's intention, I am not really sure we'll ever know. This guy currently doesn't live in Israel. According to Wikipedia, he lives in Arizona or something and makes art about how bad he feels for being a spy. I don't want to say anything personally negative against the guy, you know, he's still alive, but it's just a, it's a very, like, this is very unusual by Israeli standards, like the, the whistle, whistleblower culture is not existing in Israel the way that it exists in Western democracies like the United States and European countries. I mean, there is not like a go public. If you go public with information in Israel, you can expect your character to be destroyed, frankly, if that would clarify things.

[C]

Yeah, I would assume an insular, insular Culture that you going public with certain facts would be certainly looked down upon, if not actually frowned upon. But you know, he is still walking around, so maybe it didn't do as much damage as he had hoped. So,

[D]

yeah, I suppose we. I suppose we won't know.

[C]

All right. Want to get. You want to get into the meat of the meat of the text?

[D]

Yeah, correct. So when we look at this book, obviously starting with the first book By Way of Deception was published in 1990. This is a very interesting time period for Espionage Tell us to be published. If you are looking at this book just as a literary reference, the closest time analog is the earliest Tom Clancy novels. So there is a massive explosion in popularity at the end of the Cold War and going into the early 1990s of spy stories, spy tell alls. These are exceptionally popular because frankly a lot of the culture for decades prior, James Bond movies are very popular with sort of the solidification of the post World War II order in terms of large nation states conducting overt warfare against each other. The COVID became far more romantic. And this is. I can't find a Mossad book earlier than this that I would trust. A lot of them are just either purely operational, so they'll look at like Mossad operations or military operations, or there are some weird. Leon Uris, an author who wrote the book Exodus and a few other ones, which later got turned into a movie with Paul Newman as this, you know, super hand Superman kind of guy, which is frankly just rabid Zionist propaganda. I mean, these are your options for consumption about Israeli media beforehand.

[C]

Well, well, yeah, just to go back, you had mentioned James Bond, of course, Ian Fleming was naval intelligence. So maybe when you look at what Clancy is doing and everything. So I assume that there's some kind of revelation there.

[D]

Yeah, and I think it's interesting just as like a pop culture aside, like there's no Yakov Bob Bondberg, like there's no Israeli James Bond. Culturally, it's like the entire organization gets the clout, so to speak. Well, that.

[C]

I mean, anybody who has listened to Years Together, like one or two episodes, all you would need is to. You'd understand why for sure.

[D]

So I'll go through my usual analysis here a little bit slower just because it's very information dense. And I want to also kind of occasionally throw in my own anecdotes here. So when you look at this book and the back of it, page 357, there is a glossary of terms to help you break down and understand the Hebrew. My apologies, Pete. I will have to speak Hebrew on this stream, but I will do my best to translate it immediately. I will not like a lot of these different international relations experts on podcasts or New York Times articles or whatever. I won't overemphasize the pronunciation like a doofus, essentially.

[C]

I appreciate it.

[D]

Yeah, the main assertion in the prologue of this book, which is primarily talking about Operation Sphinx and throughout the entirety of it, is that the Mossad is out of control. And by this statement, Mr. Ostrovsky means that the Mossad is unaccountable to the civilian political class. Now, just on its face, overtly, that's hilarious because Israel is a mandatory conscription state with no constitution and the governmental power structures, the relationship between the Prime Minister's office, the judiciary and the subservient political base is like not structured like a Western democracy. So this author is just, I mean in the first couple paragraphs, not writing for an Israeli audience.

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[D]

The accountability of the espionage agency is a strange thing to say in relation to civilians because one every single civilian in Israel at one point was in the military and 2 there is no, to reiterate, there's no constitution. In one of my streams, my first stream, I think with you. Three years ago I brought up the Harare Compromise of 1950 which establishes a series of basic laws, sort of like if you imagine the Bill of Rights. Each individual amendment is a single basic law, but holistically there's no actual rights that have been established from this. So there's nothing in an Israeli non existent constitution which is actually written down that Mossad has a governance structure that is immediately accountable to the broader population. Yes, administratively it is structured under the Prime Minister, but then so is everything else. Compare this in contrast to the Central Intelligence Agency, where from its inception in 1947. On my previous stream with Stormy and Up, we talked about how the origin documentation of the CIA very clearly laid out its roots in the Department of Defense and then later on its own individual reporting to the civilian political class. What is the Mossad at time of publication. This organization is both distinct from its predecessors and its initial ballistic founding in 1948 with the creation of the country. But it's also not the Mossad of 2026. It is both, roughly chronologically, it's. It's in the middle 40 years between two points. Mossad, according to Wikipedia, has 7000. We'll never know if that's true today, but in 1989, Mossad had 1200 employees, which according to Mr. Ostrovsky, this includes the cleaning staff and the secretaries that function in the building. And according to him, and I would take every single thing this guy says in this book with a huge grain of salt because there is never a way to verify any of it. There are only about 30 to 35 what's what are called Kasot. It's a Katsa is the singular iteration of it. That's a case officer. Only 30, 30 to 35 of these people at any one specific time. So, okay, if you have 30 ish field agents operating internationally and occasionally returning to Israel, well, how do you provide espionage services to an entire country? This book states explicitly that primarily they rely on a broader network of international Jews to assist them in their operations called the Sayanim. So Sayanim is a word.

[C]

My assumption is that none of these international Jews in the countries that they are in are registered as foreign agents.

[D]

Of course not in that. In the book, he says later on with the Sayanim to briefly discuss them. Because this is, I mean, we have to just clear this up right off the jump. The Sayanim are not paid agents of Israel with cash. The relationship that's occurring here is that a Mossad agent is going to choose basically someone who works either high up in a Jewish organization or as a large scale philanthropist for Jewish charities, or is like a prominent business owner who sometimes likes to, you know, visit Israel occasionally on vacation. Any number of different people or demographic elements of Jews everywhere in the world can be selected at any point to aid the Mossad. Now, as this is described, this is not an explicit ask of almost like slipped in the Hebrew there. But like an Israeli would say, you know, I'm from the Mossad, I need your help. I either need monetary assistance, weapons assistance, communication assistance, or I simply need you to watch someone for a building for a few hours. This is, hey, for the good of Israel, for the good of the Jewish people, you know, do you feel like doing your part? And frankly, this sounds like what Gad

[C]

said admitted to doing a couple years ago. He said he would, you know, he'd, he'd get a call, show up somewhere, do this. And it was usually something that was not dangerous. He was really just gathering information or watching.

[D]

Absolutely. And to be entirely clear about this, there's not like a super network of crazy agents running around. I mean, a vast majority of intelligence is just collecting information. People's movements, newspapers, hearing snippets of conversation, watching stuff go by on planes or trains. I mean, that is both by Alan Doles definition, But also by Mr. Ostrovsky's definition, the basis of almost all of the intelligence picture that's being put together here, and that is what these cyanim are being used for. In the book, he clearly delineates that these people are not deliberately putting their own life on the line. Obviously that would create a massive problem and open up a giant liability for them in an operational sense when they're doing the business on the ground. To continue with the prologue, the initial chapter recounts the espionage operations behind operation Sphinx in 1981, which was the Israeli destruction of the Iraqi Tammuz 17 nuclear reactor, which was the early iteration of these different nuclear development programs, which Iraq and frankly most of the world thought was untouchable. The military nature of the operation was, I think Israel flew several flights of highly trained F15 or F16 aircraft. They trained them by flying them north, south for something like 12 hours continuously to practice the refueling to stay within Israeli airspace. And then they flew at an extremely low altitude ceiling of something like 3 to 500ft to stay below all radar and avoid missile defenses. And then they conducted an offensive operation and basically had a total conventional success against this facility and then were able to return home in their flight plan by strategically mapping which Arab countries they would fly back through on the way back from Iraq. And. And they had, as I understand it, no losses. And this essentially sensationalized the capability of the military of Israel for a broader Western audience. Thomas has talked before about how this kind of, I think, shaped the American defense picture or the American impressions of the Israelis kind of at the end of the Cold War. And interestingly, when I lived in Israel, we watched one of our classes was we just sat down and watched a whole documentary about what an amazing success this operation was and how glorious it was that Israel could do this. The documentary itself was produced in the late 1980s and was in American English. So it was interestingly, kind of a relic of one of these sort of propaganda ish films that went around that boasted about Israeli capabilities. Now what the chapter in the book presents, knowing that context and knowing that this is a couple of years after this operation, it goes into the espionage that was conducted for this. The specifics are kind of, I wouldn't say irrelevant, but our stream would go on for six hours if we went into all of it. Basically, they squeezed an Iraqi scientist for information with sex and with careful trade craft. And then kind of throughout this operation getting the information that they needed. Eventually, when they were done with two other people in this operation, they killed them, which is standard practice for a intelligence operation in a foreign country. As the author writes, this is not. I mean, who knows how much of this you're really supposed to believe. But he says some interesting things, that this is sort of not the major goal of Mossad and its operations to leave a gigantic body trail. Obviously, it's like poor tradecraft. They try to talk their way in and out of situations when they can, or blackmail or whatever else, but it's a little bit rarer to just leave a giant trail of bodies. But that could all be bs. To talk a little about a little bit about what Mossad actually is, we have to just super quick give a distinction between the major components of the Israeli intelligence community. Aman Stormy has mentioned Aman before in various hyper modern contexts of this year and last year. I would recommend looking into his streams and what he is talking about in reference to what Amman is doing today, what it is in Hebrew, Agaf Hamodayin, which is Israeli military intelligence. This is separate physically within the structure of governance and military from the actual IDF intelligence corps, which is Khayyamudin, these two organizations. Now, you might want to think like, well, what's the difference between a military intelligence corps and Israeli military intelligence? Well, the IDF intelligence corps itself is more internal for each combatant brigade that's functional and operating presumably within either Palestine or other limited engagements in Lebanon, or I should rather say unlimited, given the recent conduct. But Amman is the actual external facing element of this. So this is an organization of Israel that looks at the military capabilities of what it considers adversary countries around the world and occasionally allied countries to keep a full intelligence picture on. And these things are not Mossad. I want to be clear about that. Mossad is the espionage organization. These two things in addition to Mossad, often they cooperate. They sometimes work in tandem, but the explicit function and information sharing is rather compartmentalized from Mossad to these other Israeli intelligence components. But what actually is Mossad? For the record, I was never in Mossad. I never met anyone in Mossad. When I lived in Israel, I lived in A lot of these different areas where, where the streets and everything referenced in this book were kind of a map to the operations that he's doing and the people that he's meeting. But all the Hebrew that he uses of the component teams and everything, it all looks 100% above board. So I kind of trust him when he says the component teams include the following parts. Yarid is the ground component team in the sense that when you have an operation on the ground, you have an immediate security for the perimeter. You have people that are in charge of monitoring schedules of all individuals within that location, keeping an eye on their routines. And that's also the external casing that is looking at the external facing cameras that is monitoring how often people go into and out of doors, how often they open and close windows. Sort of the daily life pantheon of all activity within an area in which they're conducting an operation. This Yarid is separate from the. I kind of stumbled that one, which is the Listening Department. The Listening Department conducts B& E breaking and entering into the facilities that they're targeting and planting one way listening devices or other espionage tools. So looking through the nature of this book, looking at these two component teams, and primarily the book is written mostly about their training schedule before their operational schedule. I looked at all the different locations that I could clearly identify. Every single one that he references within Israel. They are completely accurate in terms of his proximity, the transit structures, the urban density of the location that he's operating in. So when he says that he's doing this training facility and he's moving to Dizengoff or the Chow Weizmann, he's what's going on, everyone?

[A]

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That's actually the distance that he's moving and his visual picture of this thing is completely accurate. So I just want to say that if there's any doubts as to what's actually happening within his activities within Israel, generally within the book, interestingly, this is more prevalent in 1990 than there is today. There's a mixture of Yiddish phrases that's been tossed around between these different agents. But within modern Israel today, this is almost totally gone extinct. Outside of explicit religious circles who choose not to speak Hebrew. So Yiddish itself, it used to be spoken way, way more in secular Jewish circles in the 20th century, but it's basically died out. Similar to Ladino, people either speak Hebrew or they speak English. And the Yiddish speaking ones are frankly the religious craziest. Who are these units or teams within the Mossad at the end of the prologue? Well, from what it seems like based on the initial case here, what these guys functionally are doing, they're weapons salesmen in the mold of Cold War America. Now they obviously are conducting offensive operations against adversary countries. The geopolitical state of the world at this time is such that I would say the battle lines are more drawn. It's quite clear in the nature of the Cold War based on the different Sunni Arab states that Israel had recently gone to war against in every iteration of its wars from the. The name varies. In Israel, it's called the War of Independence of 1948. Yom Hatzmaut are usually the remembrance days within Israel for the Holocaust and the War of Independence. That's, that's linguistically what it is, but it's called the Arab Israeli War 1948. There are also additional operations throughout the 1950s. In the 1960s, there's the 1967 war, the Six Day War, and then the 1973 Yom Kippur War. And then in the 1980s there's the 1981-1982ish Israeli invasion of Lebanon. And then throughout all of these different times, Israel is sort of repeatedly antagonizing its neighbors in more covert ways. So that's in a nutshell, the strategic picture. So the Mossad is, yes, conducting operations against these countries that it's fighting wars against or has recently fought wars against. But when it comes to sort of their day to day interactions with allies or neutral countries, frankly, what you see in the book is that they're selling them all the weapons that the Americans give them. I mean, straight out, like, no bullshit. And the facts as they come will prove this. But I have digressed here. Who is this man? Who is this author? Victor ostrovsky was born November 28, 1949 in Edmonton, Canada. His father served in the Royal Canadian Air Force during World War II as a Lancaster bomber pilot. After the war, he fought in the 1948 Arab Israeli War as the commander of the Sadedov Air Base in Tel Aviv. His Base here, said the DoV. I want to like reiterate that because pops up a ton of the book and I've been there or to what was there. This was a critical Israeli Air Force air base that existed from the 1940s. It was previously that it existed as a military base all the way through 2019 when it was bulldozed and replaced with luxury apartments. I bet they regret that one. But anyway, sorry, I'm all over the place here. Basically a schlub is not going to be in charge of this airport. It's a critical infrastructure facility with multiple fighter squadrons. And given this man's experience in the Canadian Air Force, his father, this was a man who once he had come to Israel as a Zionist, basically had a tremendous amount of power and status within Israel. Culturally, the air Force is considered the absolute highest tier outside of the Sayelats, which are the zebra for like the scout brigades or within each component military brigade in Israel you have a special forces component that's more reconnaissance oriented. In addition, you also have special operations unit. Even different tank units and other such entities can have their own scout units. These are more prestigious, but at the top of them, if you're commanding an air base in the 1948 war, you are basically a legend within Israel. So to clarify, this man's father, extremely high status. This man's mother was Israeli. She was a supply truck driver from Tel Aviv to Cairo for the British army, but one of these like Palestine Mandate types. But she became a member of the Haganah, so she was a traitor to the British. The Haganah was the central IDF precursor alongside both the Irgun and the Lehi before the 1948 war. These were, in brief, a series of militant. People get sensitive about the label terrorist organizations. I say sensitive about the term terrorist, but I mean the activities that they are doing are inflicting harm upon civilians for maximum strategic benefit, which ironically was the definition that I was taught in Israel about terrorism. This man's parents, his mother and father obviously, obviously well off in the idf. They frequently travel between Canada, the United States and Israel in the 1940s. And his grandfather was the Auditor General of the United Jewish Agency. That was one of the primary international organizations for Jews that was facilitating aliyah to Israel in the 1920s and 1930s. For your history, this was the, depending on how you count them, the second or third major wave of modern Zionist immigration to Israel. I believe within Israel. They told us there had been something like some seven to eight of them throughout the 19th and 20th centuries. This is one of the earlier iterations of it. The man's uncle was in Shulai Shimshon as a sayerette in the Gati Brigade. And culturally within Israel, when they have their uniforms, they have a fox patch. That fox patch comes from the Shulai Shimshon and is prestigious and is part of the foundational lore of the Brigade. So, okay, so mother, father, grandfather, uncle, all, like, extremely high up within the Israeli structure of the military. So yet, ironically, for the most part, they're not really living that frequently in Israel, which is, like, insane to me. I mean, knowing what I know now, being not a Jew anymore and thinking more about dual loyalties, I wonder how much loyalties these people had to, you know, Canada, United States, but obviously very hardly regarded within Israel growing up. He writes within the book that the way he views Israel, quote, it was a country that could do no wrong, would not inflict evil on others, would set an example for all nations to see and to follow if there was anything wrong financially or politically in the country. I always imagined that this was at the lower echelons of government with the bureaucrats who would eventually clean up their act. Basically, I believed there were people guarding our rights, great people like Ben Guion, whom I really admired. I grew up regarding Begin as the militant. I couldn't stand, end quote. So to contextualize that statement at the age. So he's born in Canada, moves at the age of 12 to Holon, which is a very nice part of Tel Aviv back then and today. And the way that he's describing his politics totally matches the politics of the time. Again, it's hard not to go off on the Israeli history here, but I suppose that's why I'm here. Between 1948 and the late 1970s, 1977, specifically, Israel was a, quote, leftist state. It was broadly, intrinsically, philosophically hardcore socialist. All the kibbutzim come from this nature. The Zionism that's coming from Europe and the United States is blatantly leftist, but also extremely racialist and nationalistic in its origin. Almost, dare I say, a national Socialism for Jews. I mean, not to get all over the place, but, like, the more I think on this stuff, looking back on it, like, it just kind of blows my mind connecting these dots. The man's background. He says he likes Ben Gulion, but then he regarded Menachem Begin as a militant. Well, looking at the history of Israel, David Ben Gulion was, I believe, the head of the Haganah and Menachem Begin in the war of Independence. Ran the Ilgun. So you have the more centrist, normal, respectable army, quote unquote in the Haganah. And then you have the Ilgun militants which are basically killing more civilians. They're more comfortable with being more radical, they're more brutal as an organization. And politically, the early history of Israel was the leftist. Like I said, that's Mapai avodah. Avodah in Hebrew means labor. And that was the dominant party up until 1977. In 1977, approximately, you know, 40 years or so after the, sorry, 30 years, a generation, ish. After the foundation of Israel, it shifts to Likud with Menachem Begin, who is a ostensible right winger by Israeli standards. A lot of early Jews, a lot of everyone from Assad agents, everyone of Mr. Ostrovsky's generation and their parents, unless they were overt right ringers. They kind of regard Ben Gurion as is like the Kim Il Sung figure in the country's development, like North Korea. Ben Gurion similarly also ran the show, with some small exceptions, for 22 years as the first prime minister, sort of similar to the time duration, a little bit longer for Bibi Netanyahu. Another thing he writes which is like, again, just think on it in context of since October 7, he says, when I grew up, political tolerance was the main rule. Arabs were regarded as human beings. We had had peace with them before and eventually would again. That was my ideal of Israel. So very humanist, very socialist, very secularized, not really religious. He basically never mentions going to a synagogue for the entirety of the book. As far as his biography, he goes to Israel age 12, lives in Holon, is raised there with this extremely powerful Zionist family. He joins the IDF at 18 for the compulsory three year term that everyone does. He ends as a second lieutenant in the military belief. Excuse me, military police. And on the back of both books, the first and second book it's written he was then the youngest officer in the Israeli military. He musters out of the military police in November of 1971. So he never mentioned seeing combat at this time or being forward deployed. He really doesn't mention anything. But a lot of this also is because being a military police member in Israel, I mean you are far more of a police officer than you are like an American style mp, if that makes sense. The division is a little more blurred there. Generally there's a little bit of tension between the IDF and the military police in terms of assignments and power and everything. And I should also mention one other point that when you know, from the day Israel was created to. Today your unit that you are in in the IDF is everything to your career, to your ability to find a spouse, to your ability to have respect from your community, to frankly your entire self perception, your military career, to Germans, the trajectory of your entire life. And I saw all the time IDF soldiers giving each other shit for being in various units for or you know, the guy from San Khanim, which is like the parachute regiment, which is. I mean that's if you are like a white Ashkenazi in shape, you know, level headed dude, you're going to go into the San Khanim. You know, a lot of these. There's also a certain racial element of different brigades. A lot of other brigades have more Mizrahi Jews and so on. So it can sort of get. Also the stick measuring contest extends throughout the book, even in the Mossad when he's writing. After he musters out in 71, he goes back to Canada for five years to work various jobs. He misses the Yom Kippur War in 1973, but says basically he feels like what he had to give to Israel wasn't complete. So he returns to Israel in May 1977 and joins the navy. Now here's an interesting thing.

[A]

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It may have been the case back then differently, but today you can't be what's called or a lone soldier, basically a foreigner joining the IDF who then gets out of the military, isn't a reservist and then can come back several years later and join. That's fairly unusual. And I would imagine one thing he's not saying throughout the nature of this book is just how powerful his family is and how well connected they are within Israel. There's a lot of things that are sort of like your average. Your new immigrant would not have this experience. This is very atypical. Especially joining the navy after the army. Just strange. So he joins the navy initially when he's going through his in processing and in processing in Herzliya, which used to have a huge naval Facility, which I think has been mostly decommissioned. He goes through this kind of big process where they test his English and they're just kind of consistently figuring out, okay, you know, what are you capable of? What do you think about these things? And he realizes they're kind of trying him out for Mossad. And he goes through this process where he's turning it down continuously for about eight months because he doesn't want to be away from his, you know, family. And he finds out later, once he's in the Mossad, that they wanted him to be in Kidon, which is the Matsada department, just to get the name right, like, it's the assassination department. This matzada was called Kumamiyot at the time. They like to change the names occasionally, but, like, the function of the organization is exactly the same. And the Mossad used to be called something else during its origin. It used to be. I don't have the Hebrew, the name of it offhand, but, I mean, currently it's Hamusad la Modi' in. So that's abbreviated to Mossad. Going back forward here, he turns down the Mossad completely in 1981, at the completion of his Navy service. He was briefly involved in sort of these naval operations at the start of the. They call it the 1982 Lebanon War, but Israel was basically provoking Lebanon continuously in 1981. But he leaves the Navy following kind of, you know, not really an exceptional career. Perhaps it's classified. Perhaps he didn't feel like disclosing the details of it. Obviously, the conventional military service pales in comparison to being in the Mossad. He could have also wanted to protect his fellow soldiers, but he never really mentions any close friends or, you know, acquaintances. It's basically purely fixated on the Mossad. In October 1982, he formally tests into it after a long consultation with his wife. He goes to Bayt Adao Dafna. It's a big, huge complex that still exists today at King Saul Boulevard in Tel Aviv. He says at the time that this is Mossad headquarters. I don't see any reason to disbelieve him. Although this is one of these unverifiable facts, essentially, because the way a lot of the stuff within Israel works, you can't really nail them to facts. They'll just tell you it's not true, which sort of builds to a later point about lying. And the Mossad, after passing many of these tests continuously, and he goes on for chapters and chapters about the training and tests that he after passes, he goes to the Mossad Training Academy. So, okay, what is this place? Mossad Training Academy. In Hebrew it's called the Midrasha, which is primarily what that is. The midrash is the name and process, really philosophically of Talmudic exegesis and Torah interpretation. So it is very interesting. If you could imagine this, the equivalent would be naming the CIA training farm. I don't know, like Christian exegesis. You know, that's the equivalent of what's going on here as far as the naming convention. So you'll see this quite frequently. They'll tie in a lot of Old Testament biblical stuff into their espionage, which I think is frankly like kind of a weird PR religion thing. Even though not many of these people are super moral, there are some extremely religious Jews. He has an interesting story later on of a fellow agent who. Sorry, I'm like, it's a, it's a tangent on a tangent here, so stop me if it gets crazy. One of his fellow case officers is extremely religious and always wants to wear kippa. Well, the problem with being an operational agent and wearing a kippa is they can see you wearing one. So what he does is he shaves his head and he gets a hairpiece made in the shape of a kippah to cover like the now shaven bald spot. So he can always be on an operation and wear his keepa, which is like extremely strange religious priorities when your job is to go out into the world and morally compromise people and, or kill them. Weird sense of religion and morality there. But back to my point, he gets trained as a Katsa. He notes here that the actual case officers themselves, they could not be women. Certain other intelligence gathering agents could be, if they were behind the scenes, they were secretary roles. These definitely could be women. And most frequently women are used in these roles Within Israel. Culturally, with the exception of certain combat jobs, women are basically everywhere in the military and intelligence and business world. There's no gender divisions. It's really more, for lack of a better term, gender neutral than anything else in their society. But he notes that actual case officers, the Katsa, these again, 30ish people, they could not be women because when they're conducting espionage operations, an Arab man would never ever work or take money from a woman. It's just not happening, obviously in Arab society. As he's going through his ongoing initial testing, he has an infiltration test, he notes, kind of as a throw aside point. He basically has to get into a hotel. And in the time, this is what came out late 80s, 1990 or so as I understand it, I'm a little too young for this, but, like, they'd have like a guest book in a hotel that you would write your name in and that, you know, when people were up to no good, they'd leave like a pseudonym, John Smith or whatever. But in the west and Europe and basically everywhere, they would just leave a guest book there and you would put a pseudonym in it if you actually wanted privacy. So, you know, when they called Jerome or whatever, it wouldn't actually be you. But interestingly, it's a very subtle but interesting point. He notes that when he's doing his infiltration in a hotel that they hide the guest books under the reception desk. Well, that's really weird because you could just use a pseudonym. But this brings up a very crucial point that frames the rest of the book. Israel is a low trust society that is masquerading as a high trust society. When he is practicing infiltration in his initial missions, he's speaking English to the Israelis. Because if you're a tourist Jew, you're always treated better. And I will say based on personal experience, it's completely true at this point later on, and I just want to repeat that point really quickly again, this will come up over and over and over again. When you're reading this book and you're looking at the conduct and behavior of his fellow officers, why are they misbehaving so strangely? Why are they so crude? Why are they so morally compromised? Why are they stealing so much money? You could say it's corruption, but you can't corrupt what's already corrupted in a big picture sense. Like, there's no trust here. He's describing, as he's joining the Mossad, that they're testing him on his English. And his initial officer was giving him a hard time because he was using like, 70s slang, like, you know, far out and groovy. And he was giving like, a Canadian native English speaker a hard time for his English. And this endless shit testing within Israel literally goes on from the day that you're born until the day you die. That is how they treat both their own people, but also especially foreigners that live there. They're usually wealthier, they're usually speaking multiple languages. They're typically more cultured, better educated, they have more resources. It's also a political dynamic between the significantly more powerful external Zionist support and the actual state of Israel which is dependent upon it. People think it's this giant unified Jewish block, but that's really not how the actual society breaks down. So with this Clarifying point, getting back to the book. Next chapter, cadet 16. He is now a trainee cadet, the Mossad. And he begins to sort of outline this process of being a very junior Mossad. And make no mistake, they're still being tested throughout their training. But what he notes, Mossad agents are given a lie detector test every three months. Speaking from an perspective, this is very unusual for intelligence agencies to put a polygraph in front of someone every three months. It's excessive and insane. It's not done today. I believe also for Western intelligence services, it was not done at the time to set everybody down with the polygraph. But I think this is more of an iteration of that low trust society perspective. One thing I also have in my notes here is that as he's getting the initial training and they're testing him for various things, there's a huge amount of bravado and propaganda. In his introductory statements from his initial Mossad superiors, which again, he names with first and last name, he says they're telling him stuff. I mean, this Hollywood shit, like, you have the right to refuse this test, which gives me the right to shoot you, which is just. No one would ever speak like that. And I'm not sure why this is pervasive throughout the book. Maybe everyone in the Mossad is that insecure and, you know, rude. I wouldn't doubt a lot of it. But also,

[C]

would it have to do with the fact that if you have assets all over the world and you've infiltrated so many different cultures and countries, you would expect that, especially if. If it's a foreigner doing Alia Coming home, that possibly they could be undercover and working, you know, working for someone else.

[D]

It's an extremely good point.

[C]

I mean, it could be very true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the mistrust, you know, if you're, if you have people, if you have people infiltrated everywhere, you're. And that's what you. You're doing, you're just going to expect it to be done to you. It just seems like it would be like a. A perfect kind of paranoia because of, you know, because it's what you do.

[D]

And also, I mean, the Mossad itself, I mean, like many other areas of Israel that are recruiting for talent, they're recruiting from all walks of life. I mean, they're not going to get 30 different identical Mizrahi, Turkish Jewish agents in the room together. They can't infiltrate anything. You need to, basically. And they say this explicitly in the book, that they're looking for a specific type of Person, but also a specific type of person for specific operations. So you know, you want a French Jew to blend in to France and so on. And yeah, that is a very good point that you bring up that you know, if you're bringing someone obviously accustomed to their country of origin and you know, this person might just infiltrate the Mossad as well. And the constant lie detector tests, I think you're correct. It might point to that. Let's see, as far as the actual. So, okay, so you're teaching an intelligence agent how to do something. On the one hand you have academic systems, but on the other you have like on the ground systems. So we're just going to go very, very briefly into the academic systems. So they talk about how security was taught by Shabak instructors. Now Shabak is the Israeli FBI. Mossad is like the CIA. These are roughly equivalents. They're not quite accurate, but that's basically how it breaks down. He talks about how I forgot the Hebrew acronym for this, but he calls it Naka, which is essentially it's a. Okay. When you write an intelligence report, you need to have a unified writing system for both gathering information clearly and communicating well, and also reporting it to various audiences, people that might receive it. So this needs to be a very natural, uniform script. The language needs to be innately familiar. And

[A]

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When you are working in this field and you're writing an intelligence report of any kind for any reason, it needs to have extreme procedural consistency and brevity for communication. And the reason that that is the case is because if someone writes some kind of shorthand note, you're going to be working in a high stress, low time environment where you get information into, let's say like a, a single piece of paper, you send it up your command structure, they might not be able to determine shit from it. And so having that uniform writing system means when you're intaking and processing intelligence information either at local or foreign headquarters, organizations or facilities, your actual analysts on the ground that are looking at what your field agents are doing. Are going to be able to very clearly understand and put together a coherent intelligence picture. And so he gets a little bit more into the conduct of operational security. In Hebrew he calls it apam. That's avtachat pailut modinet, which is a literal translation to securing intelligence activity, basically. What does that actually mean? This is your on the ground element. This is your frankly like, okay, it's your ritual psychological breakdown and like relentless criticizing. So there's a couple different elements here. So you're out on an operation and you need to secure intelligence. Now you can do that through medium mechanisms. So you can take pictures, you can write notes, you can basically commit integration a data point of intelligence. But very frequently this is a changing, agile dynamic field where you're thinking and working on your feet. So who survives in this? Well, not an egotistical, self centered person, Not a shy person, not a frankly like unsexy person, a dork. The kind of person that you need to be when you are securing intelligence. When you're on the ground doing what you're doing, you need to have no ego. You need to have a single minded focus on your objective. But you also have to be able to be very dynamic and changing. What do you do if you're on an operation and someone comes up to you and starts speaking to you in English, but you're supposed to be a French person, how do you react? You know, do you, are you quick thinking enough on your feet to speak in broken French to that person and say, oh, sorry, I speak this other language or vice versa. To get that person in that frame of mind before you send them to the field, you have to basically richly like psychologically break down all elements of their ego. But I just want to emphasize in Israel this is like this sort of needling, rudeness, being insulted, being inconvenienced. This is like how the culture functionally is. So on the one hand you're training it into people, but on the other hand it's a cultural practice that everyone's sort of being a part of now. What like actually illustrates this? Imagine that you are a young German guy and you are a junior engineer on the German train system and you are getting the full dose of German autism. Imagine that you're a young French guy and you are the most junior chef in a French restaurant. You are in this, for lack of a better way to describe it, you're in an institution that is exacerbating all of these cultural stereotypes and strengths which is going to catalyze and intensify the nature of cultural traits that's going on in this situation. So you're taking a highly critical, rude, you know, self assessing culture and you're just turning it into a more concentrated version of yourself. And this is why the Mossad is so fucked up, frankly, in his book. In a big picture sense. Most of what's happening here on the ground, day to day, it's breaking down your ego and it's also expanding sort of the nature of your thinking. You need to think about things in a much different way. You need to be much more transient, much more flexible. What are some things that people would use this for? I think we've heard enough about the training. Page 68. One of the first guys that he describes in this book is a guy that goes to Africa and he starts dealing in millions of dollars in arms sales. And essentially the way this operation was conducted on the ground, simply they made contact to find out what the African country needed, what it feared in its existence, who it regarded as its enemies. And the idea was that the Mossad and its operations in this location would build on these pre existing needs. They would create a stronger relationship, and then they would kind of casually let in to people that were in positions of authority that Israel could supply the government in question with weapons and training, whatever they needed to address these problems. The final step in this process, once a country's leader in Africa, that is usually a strongman figure, had been hooked on the arms themselves, was for the Mossad man to tell him that he must take some agricultural equipment as well. The leader was then put in the position of saying he could expand his ties with the State of Israel only if they set up formal diplomatic relations. It was a way of essentially creating these relations through the back door. Although in most cases the arms deals were so lucrative that these liaison men never ball up, never bothered. Excuse me. To follow up with the next step. So, okay, why is this tactic so important? Well, for one, where are these weapons coming from? Israel has not that many weapons creations organizations. There's iwi, I think that's Israeli weapons industries. They have aerospace technology. But the only time I was ever in a bullet factory in Israel was when they had a museum in one of the kibbutzim from the 1948 war where they hid it under the kibbutz, ironically a military facility in a civilian location. And they had like a mass produced small arms munitions factory. But like that isn't going to be enough to supply African countries and Middle Eastern countries and European countries, and wherever the Mossad might do operations because they don't have, they don't have like the domestic American arms manufacturing industry. So whose weapons are they selling? This is a key question. Well, dear Americans, they are selling weapons that your taxpayer dollars paid for in the 1970s and 80s that we would either give to Israel for its own defense or that Israel would quote, unquote, purchase from the American arms industry. Which in previous streams, not myself, but I think other guests or streamers have discussed that the Israeli weapon purchasing industry is essentially like kind of a giant self licking ice cream cone. So that's for the weapons that are going everywhere overseas. They are just being sent out like, this is American weaponry.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Hey Goy, where do you think that Schwarzer got that Armalite from?

[D]

Yeah, I mean it's like I only see all this stuff and like a lot of it is like Israel kind of covers it up with this garbage pr. So they have a couple like, okay, I'll avoid the gun autism for the most part for this dream. But basically like they have the Galil, which is like, is a platform and then they have what's called the IWI Tavor and then they have the micro Tavor. And these are like bull pulp weapons. And every IDF soldier that I knew said, God damn, I do not want to shoot with one of these things. Like, give me the M4. I do not like this because like they're bulky.

[C]

They're bulky. The magazine releases in weird places. Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah.

[D]

And it's like you can't, can't shoulder this fucking microtavore because it's like, you know, more similar to an Uzi than anything else. And I saw one of those today

[C]

at a gun show and I'm just like, every time I see it, I'm just like, who thought that was a good idea?

[D]

Oh man. It's just, you know, looking at this, it's like. But a lot of these like weapons are like this. So obviously. I mean, look, I can't blame them. I can't blame anyone for wanting a shit ton of American weapons. I can blame them for just selling it to everybody. This is a big problem. And I mean, you also have to think about kind of the innate coerciveness of this project where you know, you're, you demand, you know, that they have to take agricultural equipment to maintain formal dick phyllotic relations. I mean, it's like this stupid.

[C]

Well, this, this, this reminds me of what Lutbox talked about in, in coup d'. Etat.

[A]

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[C]

Was how if you want to get control of another country and you want to basically have another country on its knees, is you sell them all the weapons that they can't manufacture. And then so when they go to kill the tribe next door and things start breaking, they have to keep coming back to you. And that's your, your leverage against them is. Yeah, well, if you don't give us what we need, the weapons stop flowing.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely. And also it relies on this strange stance of, I mean like by formal diplomatic relations, they mean UN recognition and some treaties so that Israel can run around to other countries and say, oh, we were recognized by this other country. I mean, part of a huge amount of what I learned because I took, interestingly enough, a international law course in Israel of the Israeli perspective with international law, which is a giant oxymoron. It puts all of the. Okay, here's a line for you, Pete, which is exactly what they told me. Israel is by virtue of the number of UN treaties about it and also other country recognitions of the State of Israel. Formally, it is a legally more legitimate country than any other country on earth. How's, how's that one?

[A]

Well, I.

[C]

So the UN says we're legal. Yet when, yet when the un, when the UN says that we're committing a genocide, them.

[D]

Yeah, but you can't recognize Palestine, Pete. I mean, like, like this, this is, this is why I have to laugh at a lot about this stuff. Like I have a lot of the, the coursework in literature and just looking over it, it's like it's English language and Hebrew propaganda for foreign Jews coming to Israel, going back to other countries. Like it's, it's not a serious analysis of, I don't know. Because you'd have to be like, critical. You'd have to be critical of this whole project to.

[C]

They're the only democracy in the region,

[D]

man. I've heard so many of these. Okay, but like, okay, let's get away from the arm sales a little bit because frankly that's like small potatoes, even though it's a gigantic problem and still is ongoing. And also like they had issues with the F35i variant and espionage components going over to China. But you know, you name like a million of these damn instances. Okay, let's look at the World Bank. Interestingly, there was a project that Sri Lanka wanted to do with infrastructure which would take about 30 years of world bank investment. And the head of the president figured out that it could be extremely significant to have this World bank investment, but he wasn't 100% certain about it. It would be extremely domestically unpopular. The Mossad basically convinced the strong man of Sri Lanka to do it. One interesting thing with the World bank and the imf, if you look at the history of International Governance Organizations, IGOs as they're known, World Bank, IMF in the 70s, 80s and 90s, they essentially took. I mean I'm going to script the financials, sorry Stormy, if you're listening to this, they basically debt enslaved the entire third world and extracted resources out of there, which I'm actually, I'm not opposed to it. I just find it a little scummy. You know, it's essentially from the Chomsky perspective, colonialism, but under a new mask. Instead of an actual specific empire doing this, it's an Igor. So to get to the actual intelligence gathering, the rest of my notes for the rest of this stream are going to be sort of these paragraph style stories. It just flows a little bit better. One new world that was revealed to me and others with a lecture at Mossad headquarters was on Pacha the department of Pailut Hablanit Oyenet or hostile sabotage activities specifically directed at the PLO. That's the Palestine Liberation Organization, big organization in the 1970s, 80s, 90s.

[C]

The.

[D]

Both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority have sort of changed their structures. But that's way too complicated for this stream. This department.

[C]

I think the pl. I think, I think Israel decided the PLO had to go when they just became way too liberal. And it was like, well you know, let's do Hamas in the Palestinian Authority now.

[D]

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[D]

Yeah, every decade they find a new subsidiary radical Islamic organization. This is an interesting one. One thing that we were taught there. And again, like everything I'm saying, I should reiterate, perhaps should have said this at the start. Everything I'm saying, you can find open source. What you're seeing is like, like in the late 2010s when Hamas wasn't the big bad guy anymore because there hadn't been a recent ish flare up of hostilities between Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza since what was called the sukhatan or the 2014 Gaza incursion.

[C]

They,

[D]

they essentially said, I think it was called Islamic Jihad. I forget a lot of these names blend together at this point. But they said there was a more radical Islamic State aligned Palestinian organization within both Gaza and the West Bank. It was more radical. And also, you know, they threw out even internally statistics like we don't actually know how many people are a part of it. And this group claims to be Islamic Jihad, but it's Palestinian, but it's more radical and also like it's completely skilled, experienced, just as dangerous as isis, but it's also in Palestine. I mean all this stuff is. So to return to the previous point, so he's talking about the hostile sabotage activities and how they track it. Well, okay, interesting thing. They take us to the sixth floor of Mossad, sat us down and told us this was where they gathered daily information on the movements of the PLO and other terrorist organizations. The instructor opened his huge folding wall about 100ft across. It's like a bond shit. I mean, I'm sorry, I doubt this entire thing and I'll tell you why. After there was a massive map of the world excluding the North Pole and Antarctica with a series of computer consoles. Underneath. The wall was divided into tiny squares that lit up. If you punched Arafat, that is Yassar Arafat on the computer keyboard, for example, his known location would light up on the map. If you asked for Arafat three days, it would have lit up everywhere he'd ever been over the past three days. The current square was always the brightest. As his movements got older, the light became dimmer. The map accommodated many people. If, for example, you wanted to know the activities of 10 key PLO people, you could punch their names in and each would show in a different color. You'd also get a printout whenever you needed one. The map was particularly valuable for swift reference. For example, a ^, if a 10 were all tracking in Paris on the same day. This means that they have been planning something and quote, steps could be taken. Now I just want to say something here for the level of. I don't doubt that a sort of system like this existed at the time. Obviously any espionage agency of any country is going to have far more advanced computational abilities than is generally known to the civilian public. That's a fact, especially if they've got it all from the United States.

[A]

But

[D]

the ideal that you can locate specific targets with this level of accuracy, I think he's being very dishonest into how capable this thing was because the way it's described in the book, you have this like omnipotent intel machine that sort of operating in capacities that like, literally, if you look today in any kind of intelligence gathering capacity for anything, if you consider like, I don't know, like S2 underground or something, when he has his dashboard of like any kind of, any kind of OSINT software that you can just kind of see on Twitter or whatever, you're not going to have this capability. So you're telling me that Israel alone has like this omnipotent kind of espionage Skynet. I think this is him listing an anecdote where he's stretching the truth in order to brag about the Mossad's capabilities. I think part of his intention in a lot of these anecdotes is to overemphasize the competency of the Mossad. Now onto another anecdote. Next, we were taught about the Bodlim, the Bodel in the singular. These are people who in Mossad who operate as messengers. I should add. These are distinct people. These are not Yarid or Shikhutis that are. That I brought up earlier that are actual like operational qatsim. These are messengers between safe houses in the embassy or between the various safe houses. Ebodel's main training is in apam, that sort of intelligence notation system I mentioned earlier, knowing whether or not he's been followed. And this bodel carries everything in diplomatic envelopes or pouches. Carriers of the pouch have diplomatic immunity and carry a document to this effect. Their main function is to bring passports and other documents to the Qatars and also to take reports back to the embassy. Qatars are not always permitted to enter the Israeli embassy. Depending on the nature of their assignment. Bodlim are usually young men in their mid-20s who do this work for a year or two. They are often Israeli students who have been in a combat unit as they tend to be reliable, though it's essential they are trained in how to avoid being followed by. They can still do the job. While students, they are regarded as one of the lower ranks in the station, but even so, it's not a bad job for a student. So, okay, couple things, couple takeaways here. I'm just going to throw this out there. There are young Israeli travelers everywhere in the world, all the time. They happen to go mostly to Thailand and India, a lot of South America too. They tend to just do a lot of drugs. I mean, that's not. Yes, I've like seen this and know people that have done this. But also, like, this is just culturally the cachet that Israelis get when they get overseas. They go a little bit wild. But, you know, this kind of bodlim that he's describing as a group that seems to track pretty perfectly with the nature of this function. Now, another interesting point here. This sort of like very simple information conveyance job. I should add that every single embassy from every country in every part of the world has intelligence agents of said foreign country in it. And it would be stupid of them not to because they are all doing it. So in and of itself, this is as far as like, you know, covert, sinister assassination and espionage operations go. This is like standard practice and not frankly, a big deal. But it's just interesting to note, you know, the overseas presence of Israelis and also a lot of more recent. No, I probably shouldn't say that.

[C]

I want to.

[D]

Well, okay, I'll just say that, like, there are. There is an increasing threat to Jews and there's a lot of unclear details on the nature of these explicit physical threats in developed Western cities. Things are very strange. That's all I'm going to say. And speaking of strangeness, direct quote. When I visited the facility as a trainee, I saw a large batch of blank Canadian passports. They must have been stolen. It looked like an entire shipment. There were over 1,000 of them. I don't think the shipment was ever reported missing. Not in the media, anyway. Okay, well, here's a crazy. Here's a crazy one, Pete. I can understand procuring like documentation and falsifying it for espionage purposes, but I just want you to like, connect the dots between. You have a massive sayanim, so you have a massive contingent of foreign people who are performing civilian functions for Israel in some capacity, and a thousand blank passports show up. Now, I'm sure that, you know, anybody with a pulse can ascertain a passport is a protected form of legal identity, international Identification. And if you show up at an airport with a blank passport, you are fucked. So a thousand blank Canadian passports in Israel in a warehouse, not reported missing. How did it get there? Who put it there? Was it on a ship? Was it on a plane? No one at customs ever looked at it. And that's just really strange because it was stolen. But who was it stolen from? These are very interesting and obviously quite necessary gaps in the story, which is why I think everyone who's interested in Israel and the Mossad should read this book. And it's not any kind of. I don't know. Personally it's not like a big issue for me to like read all this because this is like, this is 35 years old at this point. This information.

[A]

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[D]

Anyway, back to the main point here. Interesting stuff. He talks about a man named Oren Riff, our main instructor, who had worked for Tim Tel, which is a major telecommunications company within Israel. Sorry, like, it's like a million anecdotes here, but I will continue. TEVL is a telecommunications company. Interestingly, within Israel. There used to be, I believe, one, it was initially two or three. For the entirety of the history of Israel. Olange took over in kind of the 90s and 2000s as the premier mobile carrier, basically dominated the entire mobile market. And then antitrust regulation from the Israeli Supreme Court came in and artificially divided this monopoly into seven or different eight unique phone companies within Israel. So to maintain like competitive pricing and competition and stuff, I stay all that stuff because Tevl and Orange were like some of the main telecommunications company in Israel back in the day. And again, as a very strange point of fact, this author lists the man's full name and who he works for, which is again, like this just doesn't happen. Like when I am a Soviet spy and I escape to the west in 1985 and I write a tell all book, I don't say like first name, last name, who worked at like Plavda, you know, in my tell all memoir, okay, they kill me. So very weird. Series of references here. But again, enough of the tangent. Back to the point. He, this telecommunications former guy, he stresses the importance of this information. Between 60 and 65% of all information collected for the Mossad comes from open media, radio, newspapers, television. About 25% comes from satellites, telex, telephone and radio communications. In the business that's called elint, electronic intelligence. 5 to 10% he talks about from liaison, which I, he doesn't really. I think that's some weird mistranslation because that doesn't, that doesn't make sense. I'm assuming he means like stolen corporate information of some kind or basically non military or government obtained information. And between 2 to 4% from human intelligence agents, people on the ground that are usually just, you know, cultivating social relationships. They were in the Tzomet department, which later changed to Melucha. But that small percentage, he notes that 2 to 4% is perhaps the most important of all the intelligence gathered. That tracks with the initial Alan dulles perspective, that 90% of information is going to be open source and only a very small amount of it is going to be derived from espionage. This is maintained even to this day. And I wanted to say there's a very interesting thing about human intelligence. This is again fully available in the 1970s, the early to mid-1970s, when the United States and Israel were trying to ascertain the likelihood of a government change or revolution in Iran that would, that's obviously the 1979 Islamic Revolution. What was told to me was that the Americans, they went in there and they paid, I believe the Maronite Christians a ton of money because they believed they would be the most pro United States and would therefore be the most willing to cooperate with the Central Intelligence Agency. They were getting paid fat stacks of cash in a very poor economy under the Shah. So essentially they would just tell the Americans whatever they actually wanted to hear. And if you look at American espionage very frequently, like Americans get duped a lot, at least in the Cold War, there's a lot of ego and stuff going on in a lot of other cultures. We're sort of getting wise to a lot of these tactics, especially the cash payouts for limited minority stuff. But the Americans, by their own internal assessments within the agency, completely blindsided by the 1979 revolution. Now contrast that with what the Mossad was doing. Now what the Mossad did was they had a bunch of frankly like Mizrahi Jews or they call them in Israel Spaldic Jews. But, but they're like not, not actually Sveldim they're like just kind of an ethnicity. They're sort of like Turkish or Persian. They're sort of like between the. They're like. I mean, in the structure of Israel, they're like sort of under the Ashkenazim, but they're like above the Arab or North African Jews and the Ethiopians. I mean, there is that caste system within Israel for the most part. Israel in the mid-1970s took a bunch of these people that were essentially Persian Jews and they trained them up a little bit and they sent them into Israel, excuse me, to Iran to be taxi drivers, doctors, hot dog cart vendors. Not exactly, but, you know, menial positions where they would just do man on the street interviews. And what that would lead to is they were able to get that human perspective where they. By their own logic, they considered that four years before the 1979 revolution, they had a clear intelligence picture that the Iranian government would experience a revolution. Could that whole entire analogy I gave just be. Maybe. But it is what was presented to me and also is what, like a lot of the academic literature around Israel, intelligence and American intelligence in the Islamic revolution was presented as. So speaking of Jews doing stuff in foreign countries, let's talk about the Sayanim. Let's get around to it. I want to cover that bit before, you know, we hit the end of the stream here, because I think that's the most interesting and relevant component of this book to a modern audience. And again chronologically, author still going through Mossad training at this point in time. The next day. This is on page 86 of the book, if you're following along. The next day, Ron S delivered a lecture on the Sayanim, a unique and important part of the Mossad's operation. Sayanim, that's assistants in English must be 100% Jewish. Let me pause there. 100% Jewish. Is mother and father Jewish? Not just mother Jewish, although halachically, if your mother is Jewish, you are considered fully Jewish. When they say 100% Jewish here, that means Ima Vigam, Abba, Shelagh, Yehudi, like your family, all of it is Jewish. Because you will not have a divided loyalty and run into a situation like me where you become a Christian and an apostate to Judaism. They don't like that too much, these Sayanim. They live abroad, and although they are not Israeli citizens, many are reached through their relatives in Israel. An Israeli with a relative in England, for example, might be asked to write a letter saying the person bearing the letter represents an organization whose main goal is to help save Jewish people in the diaspora. Could the British relative help in any way? There are, according to him, thousands of Sayanim around the world. In London alone there are about 2,000 who are active and another 5,000 on the list. So. So that's potentially contactable people. They fulfill many roles. A car sayan, for example, running a rental agency could help the Mossad rent a car without having to complete the usual documentation. An apartment scion would find accommodation without raising suspicions. A bank scion could get you money if you needed it in the middle of the night. A doctor scion would treat a bullet wound without reporting it to the police and so on. The idea is to have a pool of people available when needed who can provide services but will keep quiet about them out of loyalty to the cause. They are paid only costs. Often the loyalty of Sayanim is abused by Qatars who take advantage of the available help for their own personal use. There is no way for the Sayan to check this. So okay, what does that mean? What that means is no other intelligence agency globally has the advantage that the Mossad has in the Sayanim. You cannot take a, let's say Iranian IRGC master spy and drop them into the middle of Canada and have the same fluidity of general experience through that country to their objectives or extraction upon a mission failure in the same manner that a Mossad agent would have with the Sayan. So this creates one, an over dependence on the network. But two, also like as he just said, the Mossad would exploit other Jews. You know, if I'm in a tight spot and I need 1990s money, I need to, you know, 200 bucks to get out of the country. I'm going to ask that scion for 300 and then report to the Mossad case officer above me that I only needed 100 bucks for the extraction. You see how this can create like a corruption loop. And he says this here you go explicitly what the nature of the silent are. One thing you know for sure is that even if a Jewish person knows it is the Mossad, he might not agree to work with you, but he won't turn you in. You have at your disposal a non risk recruitment system that actually gives you a pool of millions of Jewish people to tap from outside your own borders. It's much easier to operate with what is available on the spot. And SIAM offer incredible practical support everywhere. But they are never put at risk, nor are they privy to classified information. So my anecdotes here get much shorter and I've been talking for a while, so if you have any thoughts on this, please go ahead.

[C]

No, no, I was, I was going to make the point that you made that, you know, even if we, you know, the United States wanted to, we can't have a network like, a network like this, like, you know, in, in most countries because we're going to. We're going to stand out like a sore thumb. And, you know, Jews can do a really good job of blending in wherever they go.

[D]

And I mean, another thing I should add. I mean, this is just like a general risk picture perspective. Chinese have massive ethnic cohorts in the United States. So does virtually every other major population country in the United States. Like, like, you know, like the way the Soviets would do it would, you know, I mean, like, Israel was not the only country to do this. The issue is, for the most part, as an American, if I'm a CIA agent, I have no on the ground support. This is why I have that over reliance on, frankly, like, you know, throwing money at an on the ground guy who I think is, you know, hopefully loyal, but ultimately mercenary. And this creates, like, a problem because, you know, every intelligence operation is relative risk. I could conduct one where I want to, like, overthrow an entire country, but I'm not going to do it because it's too risky. Well, what if I just, you know, my risk profile was like 80% lower. What if I didn't have to worry about getting into or out of the country or, you know, procuring myself a passport or, you know, even, like, finding food when I'm there or where I'm gonna stay? And it's. It means that overall, with that risk perspective being significantly reduced, it means that you're going to try to get away with a lot more. So when we look at, like, Mossad operations overseas, and I'm not going to bring any specifically to mind at this point, you know, why is it that Israel is so brazen? Well, this is a big explanatory factor in that, at least for their covert actions. When you look at, like, new MEK and how the United States nuclear secrets got out of the country into Israel, for any other country on the planet, that would be un. That would be, you know, okay, you're sending your agents to die and international embarrassment and media attention. But what if you just didn't have to worry about getting code? So anyway, just food for thought for people, especially as regarding loyalty, all these sorts of things, risk, that is the intrinsic structure of this man's job as an agent. He talks about how do you recruit people? How do you bring it into it? So no longer the cyanim at this point. Generally, if you're a Mossad agent overseas, how do you get people? There are three major hooks for recruiting people. Money, obviously emotion, be it revenge or ideology, and sex. So I want to just briefly go into these three. I listened to a podcast recently where they had John Kiriakou and that other guy, the long haired like hippie looking one.

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[D]

The weird one, they have these two on a podcast. There's two CIA agents that are on a podcast. John Brisculante is the other one. But basically they have these guys, they're like, they go up on YouTube and they talk about life in the CIA, you know, for like a public audience. They've been on like Rogan and all that stuff. One thing they talk about is that a lot of these motives are essentially extremely ineffective. Sex is obviously very temporary and kind of not effective. Money is good, but it's predicated far more transactionally on how to like you're paying for a certain price. So in the one hand there's a little bit more directness in it, but on the other hand, when the money stops, you have no more loyalty. And also that person will do something else for more money from someone else. So the revenge or the ideology, Ostrovsky argues, is the best point. One thing interestingly that he talks about is there's a couple of these shorter anecdotes. Inside the culture of Mossad. There are to be a little vulgar. There's. There's a lot of sex happening between agents and secretaries. Maybe it was a different time culturally, but also Israelis themselves are pretty fast and loose with this. It's very unprofessional in an espionage, you know, an espionage operation to like have any kind of intimate physical relationships. This is why in the United States for the State Department, they rotate people very frequently. And also there's strict code of conduct laws. When I read this in the book, it shocked me because the amount of interpersonal drama and lack of trust that comes about with this thing happening is insane. I mean, it will happen based on having these people in a very sociopathic, high tension environment. But the way he's describing both individual agents and the culture at large, it's like a miracle they were able to do anything. The way he's describing about like how frequently this would happening. One interesting thing is that for Mossad combatant agents, when they get forward deployed out of the country, they, they tend to go to ground for four years as a standard term of service, as opposed to the Americans, which will rotate people very frequently. But he says that Mossad, when sending agents overseas, oftentimes would get sort of tunnel vision about where they would deploy different people. He says that Mossad only had one source in Saudi Arabia in the mid-1980s, a man in the Japanese embassy. That I think is an interesting point because I believe, like if I was writing a tell all book about the Mossad and I wanted to draw attention away from something, I would point to a location and say, oh, we don't care about this one. I just think it's very weird because he brings up this same fact about the single source in Saudi Arabia multiple times throughout the book. I think that's a deflection technique possibly to cover a larger operation that's going on that he could have known about. But it also falls into a pattern of like disclosing too much information, frankly. As far as how they interacted with the British separately. This was in. Margaret Thatcher was in charge. They called her the bitch. They had tagged her as an anti Semite direct quote. There's one simple question asked when anything happened. Is it good for the Jews or not? Forget about policies or anything else. That was the only thing that counted. And depending on the answer, people were called anti Semites, whether deservedly or not. As far as their own relationship domestically within Israel. The Mossad didn't like Yitzhak Lebin. If you know about the history 1994, Yitzhak Lebin gets assassinated by a extremely radical Zionist settler faction type, I think by a Kahanist within Israel.

[C]

Yeah, I think it was a Kahanist.

[D]

But people also throw doubt on that story. I don't want to say more than that. Um, you know, if he's mentioning in 1990 that the Mossad did not like Rabin, you know, anyway, you understand what's

[A]

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[D]

So you know, one story that he tells about it, the former Israeli ambassador to the United States had left that job in 1974 and came back to take over the party. He's talking about Rabin himself to take over the party and succeed Gulda Mail, who's the prime minister. In the early 1970s, as the prime minister, Rabin demanded raw data from intelligence rather than the distilled version normally offered, making it much more difficult for Mossad to use their information to set the agenda in the way that they wanted. Mossad, however, did, like Menachem Begin. Interesting. Well, you see, if you know a little bit about the Israeli history, earlier on I mentioned that the country was entirely left, quote, unquote, socialist. The labels are very misused and confusing and frankly, ill fitting in this. But from the 40s to the 70s, it was left. And then like Mossad didn't like the function of Yitzhak Lebin in the late 70s, but they loved Menachem Begum. Menachem Begin then gets put into power in 1977 with the Qud, which starts basically Likud's total dominance. He's arguing throughout the book that basically Mossad is not accountable to the prime minister. And, you know, you can sort of connect the dots here. Many, many, many of the training operations and espionage activities are also within Israel. Part of that might be because the author was only in the Mossad for 14 months and didn't do a large number of international operations. But it also could be, you know, the espionage service comes home to roost and take its techniques and steer things a certain way domestically. This would not be the first time. I want to move on to one additional anecdote on US Made fighter aircraft. And let me know, Pete, if you want to wind down. I have tons of these anecdotes.

[C]

Yeah, do this last one and we'll start to land the jet, certainly.

[D]

So, okay, this is now Ostrovsky's story. One day a man. So he's. He's working in some kind of office, presumably. It's presumably a government office based on the nature of how he described the story. One day a man came in and asked me to have a contract signed that had to be Approved by the Prime Minister. Contract was for sale of between 20 and 30 US made Skyhawk fighters to Indonesia. Something that contravened Israel's armament agreement within the United States. They were not supposed to resell such armaments without US Approval. Yeah, no.

[C]

Can I, can I mention that, that it's pretty awesome that they're selling fighters to the largest Muslim country in the world?

[D]

Oh, yeah. And like something that people don't know, especially about the Skyhawk carrier capable aircraft, extremely competent fighter aircraft. And also, I should add, this was sold from the United States to Israel for Israel's defense. These were not supposed to, again, like leave Israel and go to a different country. I mean, how many. I mean, this is going to happen as part of corruption. But like, you know, I should reiterate, like imagine, imagine, I don't know, every other country that we sell fighter aircraft to, they just keep, they don't resell them like, you know, but we have to give more military aid and financial aid to Israel, you see, because they need it even though they're selling it. You know, find the logic here. Anyway, so, okay, this guy wants to sell 20 to 30 Skyhawk fighters to Indonesia and break, you know, the Israeli American arm agreement. No big deal. So, okay, if you don't mind coming tomorrow or leaving me your phone number, I'll call you once it's taken care of. The man said, no, I'll wait. During my trip to iai, that is Israeli Aviation Industries, that is also the same organization that is the recipient of the F35 Israeli iteration and function, I had seen about 30 of these Skyhawk fighter jets sitting on a Runway completely wrapped in bright yellow plastic and ready for shipping. When we, when we asked about it, they said they were for shipment overseas, but they wouldn't tell us where they were going. I was quite sure there was no way the Americans would approve of the sale. If these planes were going to Indonesia, it would change the balance of power in the area. But it wasn't up to me. So when he said he'd wait for Prime Minister Perez's approval, that's Shimon Perez. I opened my door, looked in and said, Shimon, Shimon. I turned to him and said, sorry, Mr. Perez is not here right now. It's a low level anecdote, but you can bet your ass those planes got sold to Indonesia. And you know, there's just like, literally, I want to, as we kind of wrap the conclusion here, these are like a series of anecdotes. There's probably one of these such stories on every five to ten pages or so, both for the entirety of the remainder of the first book. And when they come back at him with criticism and calling him insubordinate and incompetent and lying, he publishes a second book, literally just of primary sources of these things happening. And, you know, in the 35 years since these books have been published, and we can look back and say, yeah, all this stuff is true. We can independently verify it through American sources and other media sources and et cetera. So, yeah, I'm happy to move to whatever closing thing you want to do. And we are about, for context, about 3/4 of the way through the first book.

[C]

Well, you know, we can. We can save the last quarter till you're ready to do the second book, and we can just, you know, put that on there, considering that I. I guess a lot of it is going to be anecdotes, considering what the second book entails.

[D]

Absolutely. I was. Do you have any other thoughts on this sort of material?

[C]

No, you know, it's. It's pretty much what we expect. What we expected, what we knew was happening. And. Wait a minute. What is this part here? What is this about Oswald.

[D]

Oh, let me find that section.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Okay, we can do the Oswald one.

[C]

It's a little more exciting. Yeah. Okay.

[D]

Okay. So what they. Damn.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

As you know, Pete and I have. To the audience. Pete and I have covered streams on, like, the CIA and stuff, and storming. Many guests have come on to talk about kind of the true nature of the Kendi assassination. I won't repeat that thesis. It's not my wheelhouse. But I will say this. He wrote about the. This author in this book wrote about the Kendi assassination. This is what he said, quote, verbatim. It was just an exercise, but it showed that it was impossible to do what Oswald was supposed to. Supposed to have done. He wasn't even a professional. Look at the distance from the sixth floor window of a building. The kind of equipment he had. He didn't even reinforce the bullets. The guy had just bought the rifle. Anyone knows it takes time and skill to adjust the telescopic skites on a new rifle. The official version just isn't believable. I left part of the quote out earlier. In the quote, he said that they had built an entire compound to replicate the shooting to learn how it had gone down. Interesting. And that they'd also watched the Zapruder film and that there were. I think they said it. Yeah, go ahead.

[C]

Abraham Zapruder. Yeah.

[D]

And the narrative they lay, which is like h. It's kind of like the quote, acceptable conspiracy theory. And given the nature of the JFK assassination media that was coming out at the time when the book is published, like, okay, here's a deception thing. Here's a meta thin. Just real quick, if I wanted to deceive people, you don't actually lie to them. You tell them half the truth. So half the truth here in the JFK assassination is that the mob killed Kennedy. This is like the quote, acceptable conspiracy theory. I would argue even today and at the time when he's writing this, in 1990, in the late 80s, all these other very professionally resourced researched books are coming out about the mob connections to the Kendi assassination. So if I was say a Mossad agent, I would, in my book literally titled By Way of Deception, someone would probably ask the question, you know, did Mossad kill Kennedy? And I would answer, well, it's probably the mob. Probably the mob killed him. Because you're not going to give the conventional explanation. I totally believe everything that happened that day because that's just going to open yourself up to more questions, more doubt, more incredulity.

[C]

But it, it's, you know, I gotta keep going. I'm sorry.

[D]

So like, you know, he didn't have to say that. They had built a whole compound to test this theory.

[E]

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[C]

Yeah, you know, I always think it's funny that the, the guy who got the film footage was, was born in Ukraine, Jewish family. The guy who killed Oswald, I mean, it's just the connections. Think about it. This is in Dallas in the 19, early 1960s. And it just so happens that two of the people who are most connected to this case turned out to be Jewish. All right, sure,

[D]

yeah.

[C]

You know, and the whole thing about the mob doing it. Anyone who has actually studied the mob in this country knows that much like the United States is a satellite, is controlled by Israel. We know who controlled the mob in this country.

[D]

Oh yeah, absolutely. And it's, it's just something we're like. I mean, if the Whole thing is about this guy's intelligence career and espionage career. Why would you even, like, why would you mention Oswald? Yeah, you know, it's. It's just like, there's. There's, you know, no proven connection. Like, it's just. I don't know. It's just. It's really weird. It's like, how. It's like the same thing of, like, I don't want to get you in trouble, but I'll say is like, when BB comes out and says, like, guys, Israel didn't kill Charlie Kirk, I'm gonna make like four videos on it. You know, it's just, you know, and. And I'm not even gonna speak one way or the other, but it's basically just like, why would you. Why would you cast suspicion on yourself? Why would you, like, make these strange statements like, what do you think it's like serving your interests? Like, this is so stupid. You know, sometimes the best policy as a country, as a society is to shut up and not take action. They definitely are not learning that throughout the entirety of this book or the entirety of the Mossad's actions. The volume of activity, I should add, for 1200 agents. Not agents, 30 agents with the Cyanim Network. Like, insane, insane. 30 people. Like, give me a break.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So I think this is one of those books where you're getting. It's sort of like a limited hangout. You're getting. You're getting some truth, but some of it is meant to be put out there and deflect away from other things and. Yeah, just, you know, pretty much like Edward Snowden, basically.

[D]

Yeah, man. Yeah. Fascinating. Fascinating stuff.

[C]

All right, man, we're at two hours, so let's wrap it up. And when you're. When you're ready for. For part two, we'll do part two.

[D]

Absolutely. I will try not to take too long. Yeah, a lot of. A lot of what happens going forward is a lot of primary sources. So, yeah, next couple weeks, we should get it out there. And. Yeah, I hope people. People enjoy this episode.

[C]

Me too. I appreciate you, Philos. Thank you.

[D]

Have a good night, Pete.

[C]

Want to welcome everyone back to the Pete Quinones Show. Did an episode on a book by Ostrovsky called By Way of Deception a couple months ago. A latent side looking Mossad. And then Philos told me, you know, he did a second book and it's like, oh, yeah, we got to do the second book. How you doing, Phyllos?

[D]

I'm doing very well, Pete. Sorry I missed you at the annual event, but hopefully next year.

[C]

Yeah, I understand why you couldn't make it. And, yeah, perfectly fine. And plus, yeah, told you stories about the stuff that was gone. You know, just, I. I got ill. I got. I got ill while I was there. So, yeah, I wasn't. I got to spend some time with some people, but I left a little bit early, but, I mean, I didn't want to, so. But yeah, we did miss you, man.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well,

[D]

glad you've made a full recovery since then.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. All right, man. You. Everything you've told me about this second book is really, really, really interesting. So I'll just let you jump in. Go right ahead.

[D]

Yeah. So first off, if you haven't seen the first episode of this series, you must watch it, stop at this point, go back, watch it, then start again. Because that really is going to explain the training, the mentality, the author's identity, the nature of his relationship with his citizenships, with his loyalties, with his network, with the history of the events that he was involved in. And very little of this book is going to make sense without that first bridge. To be a good podcast guest, there were a few comments on the first part, and I just wanted to sort of address one of the major points that one of the comments brought up, which is, is Epstein involved? This is a very relevant question given Epstein's involvement with Mossad and also the connection between intelligence agencies, the United States and Israel. That has been a hot button item in the news basically for my whole life, but in a particular microscopic focus since Trump's second term began. To answer it specifically, no, Epstein is not directly mentioned, but Robert Maxwell is in the second to last chapter of the book. I'm going to start there since it is most relevant to today, and then we're going to proceed normally. And just so I'm doing it justice, I'm going to read the whole chapter. It's only about three pages, but I think it's so pertinent and relevant to today that it would be a disservice to the audience not to read it.

[A]

So.

[D]

Chapter 31. Wednesday, October 30, 1991. Robert Maxwell's contact was not in the best of moods when he received a call on a special secure line at the Israeli Embassy in Madrid. Maxwell was phoning from London saying it was imperative that a meeting be set up. He was willing to come to Madrid. The ties between Maxwell and the Mossad went back a long way. Elements within the Mossad had offered to finance Maxwell's first big business ventures. And in later years, Maxwell received inside information on global matters from the office. That's a nickname for the Mossad. Maxwell was originally codenamed the Little Czech, and the sobriquet stuck. Only a handful of people in the Israeli intelligence community knew who the Little Czech was. Yet he was provided. Excuse me. He provided an unending supply of slush money for the organization whenever it ran low. For years, Maxwell would hit financial lows. Whenever the Mossad was in the midst of expensive operations that could not be funded legitimately, and when other less legitimate sources were unavailable, as was the case after the American invasion of Panama in 1990, which dried up the Mossad's income from drug trafficking and forced Maxwell to dig deep into his corporate pockets. But the Mossad had used its ace in the hole one time too many. Asking Maxwell to get involved in a matter of secondary importance. Namely, the Vanunu affair had been a big mistake for which the media mogul would be made to pay the price. That involvement caused suspicion in the British Parliament that there was no smoke without fire, particularly after the publication of a book by an American reporter claiming Maxwell was a Mossad agent. Maxwell retaliated in a lawsuit, but the ground was starting to burn under his feet. The Mossad was late in giving him back his money, and the usual last minute rescue of his financial empire was looking less and less feasible. For Maxwell, what was already bad was about to get worse. His call couldn't have been more poorly timed. Israel was participating in a peace negotiation process that the Mossad top clique believed would be detrimental to the country's security. At the same time, news was reaching the office of a growing scandal caused by Mossad involvement in Germany. This scandal was a result of Yuri's. It's another Mossad agent having made a call to the Hamburg river police informing them that a shipment of arms was about to be loaded onto an Israeli ship. The arms consisted of Soviet tanks and anti aircraft equipment concealed in large crates marked agricultural equipment. The shipment had been arranged with the help of the BND without the knowledge of the German government or Ministry of Defense. It was exactly the same equipment that the Ministry of Defense had refused to send to Israel in March of the same year because they believed the shipment would defy the German law forbidding the shipment of war material to a conflict zone. The Mossad's right wing element wasn't sure to what extent this scandal would grow. They remembered very well the scandal that had occurred in 1978 when the German police had allowed Mossad officials posing as German intelligence officers to interrogate Palestinians in German prisons. If the German government could contain the situation, things would be fine. But once the story was in the hands of the media, there was no telling where it would go. And then came this call from Maxwell insisting he must meet his contact on a matter of great urgency. The mogul was rebuffed at first, but then he issued a failed threat. Now that he was being investigated by parliament in the British media, if he wasn't able to straighten out his financial affairs, he wasn't sure he could keep the Kuryotzkov meeting a secret. What he was referring to, and in doing so he sealed his fate, was a meeting that he'd helped arrange between the Mossad liaison and the the former head of the KGB, Vladimir Krityov, who was now jailed in Number 4 Romance center in Moscow for his role in the Soviet Union's August coup to oust Mikhail Gorbachev. At that meeting, which took place on Maxwell's yacht at anchor in Yugoslav waters, Mossad's support for the plot to oust Gorbachev was discussed. The Mossad promised to bring about, through its political connections, an early recognition of the new regime as well as other logistical assistance for the couple. In exchange, it requested that all Soviet Jews be released, or rather expelled, which would create a massive exodus of people that would be too large to be absorbed by other countries and would therefore go to Israel. Certain right wingers within the government had believed this meeting with the coup plotters was a necessity. They knew that if the Soviet Union were to stop being the enemy, there'd no longer be a threat from the east. And the strategic value of Israel to its greatest ally, the United States, would would diminish. Alliances between the United States and the Arab nations in the region would then be realistic prospect. I have had no luck lately.

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[D]

It was Maxwell who'd helped create the ties with the now defunct kgb. The right wingers realized it would be a devastating blow to Israel standing in the west if the world were to learn that the Mossad had participated in any way. As minute as that participation might be, it in the Attempted coup to stop the democratization of the Soviet Union. It would be perceived as treason against the West. Maxwell was now using the Mossad's participation as a threat, however veiled, to force an immediate burst of aid to his ailing empire. His contact asked him to call back. In a few hours, a small meeting of right wingers at Mossad headquarters resulted in a consensus to terminate Maxwell. At first, the participants thought it would take several weeks to put together a plan. But then someone pointed out that the process could be accelerated if the little check could be made. To travel to a rendezvous where the Mossad would be waiting to strike. Maxwell was asked to come to Spain the following day. His contact promised that things would be worked out and that there was no need to panic. The mogul was asked to sail on his yacht to Madeira and wait there for a message. Maxwell arrived in Gibraltar on August 31, 1991, boarded his lot, the Lady Ghislaine, and set Sarah Flumadira as instructed. There he waited for directions. Meanwhile, the Mossad was getting ready to strike. On Friday, November 1, a special Mossad troubleshooting team that was in Spain to cover the peace talks was dispatched. The team flew to Morocco, where they were met by a confederate who'd already taken care of all the necessary equipment and other arrangements. At first, Maxwell was told that the meeting would take place in Madeira and and that he'd receive as much money as he needed to calm the situation. Additional monies would be advanced to him later. All this was to be kept completely quiet, since there was no point in providing more fodder for his enemies who would have liked nothing better than to show his direct connection to the Mossad. On November 2, the Mossad learned that Maxwell had called his son in England and scheduled a meeting with him on the island. Maxwell was told to cancel the meeting. He was also told that the meeting with the money people would now take place on the iron on the island of Tenerife. When he reached Santa Cruz on the island of Tenerife, he headed for a meeting in the Hotel Mensi. As he dined alone in the hotel restaurant, someone walked over to him and gave him a message indicating that he should be in Los Christos on the other side of the island. The next morning, he was to make his way there in his yacht, sailing around the island of Gran Canary. I learned all this in a phone call with Ephraim. Ephraim slight diversion, was the deputy director of Mossad when Mr. Ostrovsky was an agent there and he was head of the Mossad later on as well, all the way up until about 2002. Continuing. I learned all this in a phone conversation with Ephraim. He had no idea how the Kidon team had managed to get to Maxwell at sea while the yacht was cruising at 15 knots. But making it look impossible was part of the Kidon magic. Sometime during the night of November 4th to 5th, the Mossad's problem was laid to rest in the salty waters of the Atlantic. After an autopsy that raised more questions than it answered. A second autopsy was held in Israel under the watchful eye of the security apparatus. Whatever was not detected then was buried forever on Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, the resting place for the nation's most revered heroes. He had done more for Israel than can today be said. Prime Minister Shamir eulogized at Maxwell's burial. What do you think about that, Pete?

[C]

I mean, I'm not shocked. It's. It's just, you know, when you, I think a lot of people would be freaked out by that and just be like, how could they do that to someone who was so good to them? And yada yada this and yada yada that and they see why they did it. And then you just have to remember, I mean, they literally just kill kids. You know, they like, they like kill kids. And I mean. But you know, once you, once you realize the implications of all that and where that money was, the money that he was, he was moving around was going where the things that that Mossad was doing to make money, I mean, you're just, it's kind of hard to fall back on that whole thing about how Israel is the junior partner in this relationship.

[A]

No.

[D]

And I'm about to present eight pages, single spaced of evidence to that point. It's really, I mean, there's so many different incredible things in this book that being kind of the most pertinent example I could bring up without waxing poetic too much, I mean, this incident happened 35 years ago. This book was published 30 years ago. And because of this network's continued existence, financially trafficking drugs, trafficking, arms trafficking people, this is still a very real problem.

[A]

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[D]

Which is insane. I, I, you know, the same network and individuals involved. Even so, it's, it's baffling that this is the case. I kind of want to talk about the nature second.

[C]

Yeah, go ahead. But they're a democracy and we wouldn't exist without them. I've heard that this week multiple times.

[D]

A democracy with no constitution and the only society on earth that has the death penalty for one ethnic group, but not equally applied to all of its citizens.

[C]

Well, not only that. I mean, they are literally a socialist regime.

[D]

Yeah. And man, man, man. Okay, so some context for this book. This book is the sequel. This is the 1994 the Other side of Deception book. One thing that he reveals in this book, that I hadn't read the second book when Pete and I reviewed the first book. One thing he reveals in this book is that he was still a member of Mossad when the first book was published. So very interesting, kind of, you know, advertising yourself as a former Mossad agent while you're still in it is a little, you know, that's an interesting move to make with your personal safety. And I kind of wanted to get a bigger impression of this guy, you know, who is this author? I looked up some interviews with him. There's one interview on c span from 1995, and he is basically just kind of summarizing his different viewpoints of Israel and the culture and the nature of Mossad and the intelligence agencies. We'll get into what exactly he talks about. But at the time, it was a very niche publication situation for this book. So he publishes the first book in 1990. It sells about 8 million copies right off the jump. So he publishes it and he goes on this media tour. He goes on Larry King, he goes on NBC, all these different organizations to promote his book, but a Canadian judge literally puts a gag order on him for 10 days. So he goes on these interviews and literally can't say anything about the book legally. That that's a problem. The second book gets published, same publisher, same organization, same promotion, same advertising. It was not reviewed in any newspaper in North America. Not one media organization reviewed it except the Phoenix Gazette. And so when the Phoenix Gazette reviewed this book, B' Nai Brith walked into the newspaper's office and asked the journalist who wrote the review to resign for anti Semitism. And that's notable because the same author says that that is the Mossad strategy of character defamation, which is used to counter any opposition to Israel. And that same Mr. Ostrovsky, the author, lays out that this is a suicidal strategy, that the Mossad and the Israelis that are doing this, they don't really understand how dangerous this is for their own position to go around accusing other people of anti Semitism. Now you're probably thinking, well, philos, we are 30 years into the future. Things have changed. Nope, nope, they haven't. If anything, they've gotten worse. But I think it was interesting how this guy was able to put something out on C span. And I was thinking a lot about this. How is this guy even able to publish these books? Well, one, it's a very interesting time in Israeli history because it's after the fall of the Soviet union. So the U.S. i mean, Israel has to buddy up more with the United States. And the prime minister of Israel at the time when he was publishing the first book is a man named Yitzhak Shamil, who was the head of Mossad from 1955 to 1965. And that the kind of the Ephraim guy in both books is the deputy head of the Mossad. And kind of throughout both books, he's really shielding this individual, this author, from kind of the bullshit of the organization and the buddy fucking that's happening in terms of screwing over your other agents. And also he worked with Ostrovsky in facilitating the Iranian Israel Jordan peace treaty in 1994. So I think, you know, it's impossible to say with all this espionage, all the lies, all the manipulation, killing, sex and everything else extra exactly what's happening here. But it's a very interesting time that there's the sort of beginnings of the PLO and Camp David Accords. There's facilitating Israel's peace treaties with other Arab nations culturally within Israel. This era, the early 1990s, is perceived as like the last real shot at reconciliation with the Palestinians in the Arab world. That's how Israelis today view it. And that all ends with the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin by an ultra Orthodox Jew who's, I think, a Kahanist, which. The Mossad. There's interesting relationships between them and the Kahanists. That's the Jewish Defense League, sorry, Jewish Defense Force. I always forget. I think it's Jewish Defense League. But they. They're like an even crazier, more extreme group of Zionists than the Mossad. You can even say that's possible. But all these very delicate political internal things are happening within Israel. And I frankly, my perception is that the deputy head of the Mossad is running cover for him to publish the book and Ostrovsky in facilitating the groundwork for the Israel Jordan Peace Treaty. That happens after the book is published and before Yitzhak Rabin is assassinated, basically publishes the second book at a perfect time to prevent it from being. Yes, it's censored and not reviewed anywhere. But the publication itself wasn't stopped. And today, now Mr. Ostrovsky is living his life in the United States comfortably, as I understand it. So presumably he has a pretty good working relationship still in Mossad, despite kind of giving the biggest expose and tell all ever published on them. So anyway, big kind of overview of the publication of the book here. Looking at the second book as I kind of go through this, the details of specific operations and contacts the author knew, they're less pertinent to our story. There's a lot of like really cheesy blow by blows about, you know, sexual liaisons for espionage. This cinematic dialogue where he always has these witty one liners that he has the perfect response to everyone else. The book is horrifically edited and there's essentially just no need for us to get into it. I'd much rather focus on tying in the this book's relevance to today because I was inspired by both the Star Chamber and the Inquisition. If you're listening to this, you must be subscribed to both or you're not getting the full picture of anything. Basically Stormy and Dark Enlightenment. And then also on Star Chamber and a separate appearance, they detail how all of this stuff is ongoing with the same networks, all the key figures are outlined and how all of this is completely unchanged and the exact nature of the US Israel relationship is fully discussed on the Inquisition. So even though I'm talking about something from 30 years ago, what I'm about to get into, tying its relevance into today, really just lays more and more evidence towards that thesis. So I mean, let's talk about the most. I'm going to go through this in terms of like most to least relevant in terms of the book's content through the rest of this episode. So let's talk about the most relevant figure that's discussed in the Other side of Deception, that is a man named Jonathan Pollard. Now, Jonathan Pollard is a former US Navy intelligence analyst who was convicted of spying for Israel, I believe, in the late 1980s. In November 2020, the Trump administration's Department of justice allowed Pollard's restrictive five year parole terms to expire. And when his parole expired, he immediately moved to Israel and lives in Jerusalem. Furthermore, on his final day in office, in January 2021, President Trump granted a full federal pardon to Aviyem Sella, the Israeli Air Force officer who originally recruited and managed Pollard during his espionage activities. That same Aviyem Sella pardoned 2021 is mentioned in this 1994 book as Pollard's direct handler who was recruited by Mossad. So no daylight. The time continues. The players are exactly the same. Oh, I have had no luck lately.

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[D]

You know, this strategy also of pardoning people on their final day in office as a president. You know, I kind of want to almost do an episode at some point of who those people are for each administration, because another one who was pardoned by Bill Clinton on his last day in office in 2001 was Mark Rich, the same Mark Rich who was detailed in Stormy's inquisition episode. So anyway, let's go back to Pollard. Pollard's Israeli handlers, Avi Em Sala is one of them, was granted immunity from prosecution in the United States in exchange for cooperation after Pollard's arrest. This man's role, however, was totally unknown to the Americans and the Israelis were not forthcoming about his involvement. For this reason, Saleh was not giving any kind of immunity when the role was eventually uncovered during an investigation. Israel then refused to extradite Saleh for questioning. In March 1987, a federal grand jury indicted Saleh on three counts of espionage, which has a max sentence of life in prison and a half a million dollar fine. Israel was not required to extradite him under the US Israel Extradition Treaty, as the treaty does not cover cases of espionage. How convenient. Okay, so Pollard and his handler Saleh, very important to understand. Since then, Pollard has endorsed Israeli far right Minister Itamal Ben Gvil, who is notorious in Israeli politics for being kind of the furthest right public facing official in the Knesset. Pollard has also advocated a population transfer to relocate Gaza's Palestinians to Ireland. Let's real quick go back to Saleh, the handler. March 3, 1987. Cella within Israel was given command of Telnof air base, which is a very strategic location within Israel. The US Congress was very alarmed by this because he'd been convicted on three counts of espionage. So Congress said, hey, we're going to cut aid to Israel. Which in the 1980s was actually a conceivable thing that Congress could possibly potentially do, inconceivable as it is today. US officials in Israel were instructed to have no contact with Cella or with the air base itself so long as he commanded it. Israel refused to relieve him of his duties, creating tensions. Cella then resigned on March 30 to defuse these tensions and subsequently was appointed as an instructor in Israel's National Security College, which now today trains the US military and other allied nations. Now, of course, you'd think that'd be the end of it, right? Thirty years ago, the guy was an officer. He retires as a colonel in the 1980s. End of story, right? Nope. September 2021. Just five years ago, Sella was promoted, brought back in to the Israeli Air Force at the request of Amikam Norkin, the Commander of the Israeli Air Force, with the approval from IDF Chief of Staff Aviva Kavi and Minister of Defense Benny Gantz. He was originally promoted to Brigadier General in 1987, but he actually left it before the receiving the rank. He was so, you know, so a whole freaking 40ish years later, they bring him back to make him a major general. And the people that do it are the ones that are running Israel today. So again, there's time distance, but zero daylight. Same people, same respect. Okay, Robert Maxwell already covered him. We can get a little bit into Rabbi Meir Kahana, who's next most relevant. Itamar Ben Gavil, who is the leader of Utzma Yehudit, which is literally in Hebrew means Jewish power. He is a staunch Itamal Ben Gvil is a staunch devotee of Kahane's ideology, and he rose to become a central minister in Israel's government. And he is heavily aligned with Trump, publicly celebrating each and every one of Trump's geopolitical stances, with some recent exceptions to the cessation of the conflict with Iran. Last person, most interestingly, Yitzhak Shamil Shamir is the right wing Likud Prime Minister of Israel during the peak era of Ostrovsky's narrative. So Trump never actually had diplomatic interactions with Shamir, but he worked intensely and closely with Shamir's political protege, mentee and direct successor in Likud, Binyamin Netanyahu. Trump's major diplomatic actions, such as recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital, these represented the fulfillment of different right wing geopolitical frameworks. That were established and laid out as aspirational goals during Shamir's era.

[A]

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[D]

So I mean, what else is there to say on this? All of this stuff in this 30 year old book is completely relevant and tied into today. Next up, I'm going to go into an interview with the author because I think the book is sensational, it's dramatized, it's over the top. But I think an interview with the author gives more insight into exactly who this person is. I went through it and a lot of his conclusions are stuff that I agree with, but also, you know, I think expose a lot of understanding of the Israeli psyche. So he did this interview September 1995. You can find it on C Span. It's called Mossad Influence on US Policy. He starts right off the jump. The subject is the influence of intelligence on politics. He starts right off the bat. Someone asks him, are Jews a race, a nation, a religion? What are they? He says he believes that Ashkenazi Jews are descended from the Khazars. So, I mean, not something that would fly today. The author believes, Mr. Ostrovsky. He believes Mossad is causing harm both to Israel and to the United States. That's why he published these two books. He asserts that Mossad views the United States, quote, as a tool to its own end, as a playing ground. They have things that we want and we take it. Mr. Ostrovsky asserts that the US is a cash machine to the rest of the world. US Politicians hand out these ATM cards to the rest of the world and they go to the United States, where these cards, so to speak, have no limit. He distinguishes, briefly, he says, Israel and the Mossad. They convinced themselves of this myth that during the Cold War that Israel was the only Western country in the Middle east and this necessitated US Support against the ussr. He argues that there was a period of time that this was a true statement between about 1948 and 1977, which I mentioned in the first podcast. But then once the coup gained power, this changed radically. My own interpretation of this, I think that this is a false bullshit dichotomy between the Haganah, Irgun and the Etzel Lehi groups in the War of Independence. To an American audience, he's presenting this as some sort of division or some back and forth between the Labour Party and Likud. But as we know, the Prime Minister at the time, head of Mossad from 1955 to 1965, that man, Yitzhak Shamil, he founded the Lehi. So he was in charge of one of these more radical groups. What makes these groups radical? Well, he portrays that Irgun is not so radical. But I have a very interesting book here called Psychological Warfare and Irgun Documentation. And the actual printed edition I have is from the center for Strategic and International Studies. And if you haven't heard of that reference, Stormy's latest Inquisition episode, there's a line in it from one of the Irgun letters where they wrote a letter to the United States, several members of Congress, in which they said, in every barrel of oil which your Standard and Saucony companies will get from the Anglo Iranian Company, there will be at least one drop of Jewish blood. What else do they continue with? What makes the Irgun so radical? Well, okay. Point four of the basic outline of the program of the Hebrew Freedom Movement founded by Ilgun Zvay Lumi. The Freedom Movement will strive to foster understanding and friendly relations between the Hebrew state and the ussr, who consistently helped in achieving the first phase of our independence in our homeland.5. We shall foster understanding and friendly relations with the great American nation in whose midst there live millions of Jews, devoted supporters of the Hebrew state, many among them potential citizens of Eretz Yisrael.6. We shall foster friendship and understanding with the countries of Europe, proud heirs of a long history of wars for liberation. Specifically, he's talking about France. So ussr, United States, France, who within them. Right. This is not like a call to the Gentiles. This is a call to the Jews within these countries. So that's the Ilun. Does that sound not radical? No. Anyway, continuing with Mr. Ostrovsky's interview here from C Span, he claims that Zionism is a secular movement, not a messianic movement. He asserts that the religious angle itself logically leads to no claim on the physical land of Israel which the religious Israelis struggle in dealing with contradiction amongst their own theology. This is like a much more leftist Israeli view, which is. Honestly, statistically, Pew Research center investigated this. Leftists are only about. When I say leftist, it's kind of a meaningless statement. I mean, people that don't believe the full Zionist agenda, really, in, like, Tel Aviv, let's say that's only like 5 to 10% of the population. Statistically, it's even fewer during wartime. He then mentions Jabotinsky. There's all sorts of streets in Israel named after Jabotinsky. One of Jabotinsky, he says, the Mossad abides by Jabotinsky's famous quote, with blood and fear, we will build us a nation which is cruel, honest and fearless. Ostrovsky claims that the Mossad moved the American Jewish community further to the right. And how does their radicalized Jewish community operate? Well, when the syeneme are recruited by Mossad, ostrovsky states that 70% of them or so will decline. But none of them, none of these Jews living overseas will ever turn them into gentile authorities. This enables extremely rapid recruitment for the network to provide cars, doctors, weapons, safe houses, whatever is needed. So if you have a team of five khatsim on the ground in London, you can quickly establish, he says, between 300 and 400 possible people to assist in whatever capacity. So Mossad doesn't need to invest any resources in laying any kind of logistics or groundwork, which is a massive impediment for other spy agencies. Ostrovsky asserts that there is no such thing as dual loyalty citizenship. When talking about free trade, he jokes, america has free trade with Israel, and Israel for free gives nothing back. I thought that was kind of a good one. It's later on in the interview, someone asks him, you know, Mr. Ostrovsky, how can you be both a Canadian citizen and an Israeli citizen if you remember the Mosaic Assad? And he says, well, as a Canadian, I would never need to go and fight Israel, but I would not do so if it was required. And if Israel ever attacked Canada, I would not be involved with it and I would be opposed to it. Which is like a. It's just a answer. I mean, like, you'd be an idiot if you thought Mossad did no operations in Canada.

[C]

Well, I mean, even what's his name? Gad. Sad faggot. He admitted to being a cyanim and in an interview and, oh, they told me to go here and take notes and watch this. I mean, looks like he did it for free, too. So it's to me, if you do it for free, that tells me a lot more than if you're just getting paid.

[A]

Mm.

[D]

You know. You know who else did it for free? Jonathan Pollard. Fucking for free. They actually, there's a point we'll get to later on. Literally, the Mossad had to cut him off because he was too eager to be involved. They're like, put this guy on like the sleeper list because we just, we don't need this right now. It's too big of a liability, man. Let's get into like some hardware here. How did the Mossad negotiate with European companies? If this appears disjointed, it's because I'm just going chronologically through this interview. Then we'll get back into the book. The Mossad would go to European companies and say, okay, we need such and such firearms, we need these sorts of special engines, we need these types of electronics. From you, Mr. Company, we're going to offer you a deal that you can sell to the United States these product with no barriers. But how's that possible? Because you see there's a lot of tariffs and impositions and duties and VAT and stuff on goods going from Europe to the United States and vice versa. Well, the Israelis import these goods to Israel where they are packaged in Israeli packaging and labeled as Israeli goods and shipped to the United States. But this is a one way thing. This is not go the other way, right? This is a one way funnel and one, he said very interestingly, Israel on its own grows two things, sand and vegetables. Everything else is basically brought about as a good in this deal. Now of course this has sort of changed. This is 30 years ago and now they're far more into the vaporware software side of things.

[A]

But

[E]

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You know, you export all these goods as a country, that is now your gdp, that is now your investment, so on, so forth. Right after prohibition, when alcohol becomes legal, who benefits it all? I mean it's all one, all one thing. There was a deal. Okay, let's give an example. All right. What does one of these things look like? Well, there was a deal in the late 1980s where the United States wanted to sell fighter jet underwing fuel tanks to Saudi Arabia. Functionally that extends a fighter aircraft's effective range. Israel lobbied the United States not to do this because it would pose a security threat to Israel. Saudi planes with these underwing fuel tanks could, on paper, fly from an air base in Riyadh and bomb Israel quite handily and fly back. But that was the stated reason. The actual reason, according to Mr. Ostrovsky, is that Israel themselves already had a surplus of these fuel tanks permitted from the Americans that they had a trade agreement with, because Israel was allowed to purchase these fuel tanks just as they were. And they were actually already selling these fuel tanks themselves from the United States through Israel to Saudi Arabia. This American Saudi deal that the Israelis lobbied to destroy would have undercut the Israel Saudi illicit transactions that were already occurring of the same military good. So Ostrovsky argues these sorts of things, these trade transactions, this happens with many different intelligence agencies, which is shocking to a lot of people, but it's fairly common and universal. But he takes this weird moral stance on it. He says what distinguishes Mossad is that it is not accountable to anything. Other agencies like the Shabak within Israel, he argues, are accounted, are accountable. Amman is accountable to Israel. And he asserts that sort of the reason for publishing this book is that Mossad views Israeli politicians as temporary and that governments come and go. I think, like I said earlier, that this mindset can only be entertained before the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, but also because I don't think he was considering the prime minister term of Yitzhak Shamil. So, okay, I want to, like, close the daylight here and, like, disprove this argument. He has the idea that, like, Mossad views Israeli politicians as temporary and the governments come and go. Well, governments stopped coming and going in the 1990s because Bibi's been Bibi Hamelech Bibi the King since 1998. So that's the coup in power in perpetuity, with a governing coalition and a majority on the Supreme Court and full control over Israeli domestic politics. So your politicians are not coming and going, neither is your prime minister. And, you know, it's a little hypocritical because he's obviously aware and when he's giving this interview in 1995, that he just had the prime ministership of Yitzhak Shamil. So, okay, who is Yitzhak Shamil? Well, he was born Yitzhak Yezernitsky, and he was born in Belarus, grew up in Poland. He was the leader of the Zionist group Lehi, AKA the Stern Gang. He was also a member of the radical group Betal, religious Zionists. He served as the head of the Mossad between 1955 and 1965, Prime Minister between 83 and 84 as well as 1986 to 1992. So almost the entirety of Mr. Ostrovsky's Mossad career. This man Shamir was also Bibi Netanyahu's political mentor. So this book came out before Bebe, but the same politics, the same viewpoint, the same militancy, the same changed last name, the anti British treason within the British mandate in Palestine, the same geopolitical objectives that were achieved later on during Donald Trump. Again, central thesis here that I'm going to just keep bringing up time passes. People are the same, goals are the same, networks the same. There's like another in an infinite series of evidence that I can lay out with you with both. The power of the Internet. Looking at this 30 year old book now we'll, we're actually making good time on this. Let's get into U.S. weapons research in Israel. So, okay, that concludes my analysis of the interview portion with the author. We're now going to get into a little bit more details. So there was an operation in early February of 1986 from Mossad that was to benefit an Israeli optronics company called L OP which was developing a special device to broadcast and receive digitized photographic images, dpi, which is a earlier iteration of this technology which is very commonplace nowadays. This company, elop, was also developing a similar system for Maslat. Maslat is a Hebrew abbreviation for the term for unmanned remote controlled plane. This was a cooperative development project between Israeli Aeronautical Industries, iai, a subsidiary of the Israeli military industry imi, and an American corporation called AAI Corporation that was based in Baltimore. Now if you pull up Wikipedia here, AAI is a real ongoing company that is a defense contractor today. So I will say nothing more about them today at all, but I will read their 30 year old account in this book. It's a little bit more safe. The development of the DPI had proven to be extremely expensive and was running into technical difficulties as well. Further, the Israeli Aeronautical Industries was on the Mossad support list because of its enormous financial and defense potential. Hence, the Mossad devised a plan to get the proverbial wagon out of the mud. The IMI was advised to reach a development agreement with Recon Optical Industries, American company that possessed the technology that L OP required. This company is now defunct. So IMI chose as its pawn the Israeli Air Force, which at the time was involved in a project financed by American military aid to Israel. The plan was for the Mossad to insinuate Israeli engineers into Recon, posing as Israeli Air force observers and quality controllers and under the auspices of this unrelated project, steal new technology that could then be manufactured in Israel. If this technology theft was done right, the savings in research and development expenses could be enormous. So an example right there of advanced weapons technology that the Mossad stole from the Americans. Not the first time. And as Stormy also has mentioned, quite common when you just type into your Google search engine. Israel theft, American military. So, starting out more in the book, let's talk about like a couple more individuals. Less important than the five named ones at the start of the podcast, less notorious and capturing the public eye today, but still worth perhaps mentioning, if for no other reason than their extreme strangeness. So I mentioned in that Irgun documentation that there's three main sort of networked countries that Mossad and their predecessor, the Irgun, with this through line, through head of Mossad being prime ministers, but also head of major Israeli violent, frankly terrorists slash resistance slash label groups running right. There's no daylight between this. One of the three countries they need are ussr, the United States and France. Okay, cool. So Ostrovsky, the author, meets and is the Israeli liaison for a man named Pierre Salak, who is a member of the French National Front Party and is the French representative of the Unification Church. That are these people are the Moonies, if you've ever heard of them. They're this huge. I don't want to. They have a lot of like legal stuff, very powerful. They're like kind of Scientology, I suppose for South Koreans. They have this. It's. It's this self contained cult ecosystem that this man, Pierre Salak was the French representative of. So already like very odd figure. He had placed a request with a Mossad for a computer program that would help him communicate and store data select needed to keep the data secure from the French Secret Service. I was supposed to get the program that had been modified for him by the electronics company Sitex and to send it via diplomatic pouch to the Paris station. They would then have the program delivered to him. Okay, great. So he's working with the Mossad and the Moonies to do espionage in France and get around the French Secret Service. Well, shit, philos, this is 40 years ago. What's the relevance of this random guy to today? Well, the Same individual on January 11, 2017 was seen in Trump Tower restaurant with Marine Le Pen, Louis A Lot and George Lombardi. He claimed in an interview to a French newspaper that he was, quote, not successful in arranging a meeting with President Trump. I have a source for this as well. So 40 years, same people thesis again.

[C]

Okay,

[D]

let's get a little bit more into, I guess, Pollard, because we're kind of going chronologically through the book, skipping these, like, minute interpersonal dramas and these sorts of things. Around page 80 of the book, he gets dispatched to the United States to track a plo, Palestine Liberation Organization, a high value target within this network. But he's doing reconnaissance and he starts noticing some people following him. And so he basically knocks this guy out who's following him, straps him to a chair and tortures him to try and figure out what's going on. Now the guy who's being tortured says, you know what? The. You can't do this to me. You're. You're a police officer. Like, why? You know what, what's going on? You know, I'll never tell you who I'm working for. So Mr. Strowski tortures him. Eventually it comes out that the man he's caught following him outside of the PLO headquarters was a member of the Jewish Defense League. That is the Kahanist, ultra, ultra radical Zionist organization. I think it actually held some Israeli parliament seats in the Knesset, but it's since been banned. But like, Itamal Ben Gavil is its successor with Jewish power, the party. So, like, you know that if the guy's successor is in the same role doing the same thing, you can assume this stuff never stops, you know, so Mossad and Jewish Defense League, there's a lot of tensions because it's. It's kind of this uncontrollable thing. And the Jewish Defense League has actually a rather poor impression of Mossad because Israel at the time, this Zionism thing, as Thomas says, and he's completely accurate, that it's this aberrant 20th century secular ideology which is racialist but also won't go away. And that actually poses a lot of problems for very radical religious Jews. But kind of continuing onward chronologically, I want to go a little bit more into Pollard. Let's talk about Jonathan Pollard. Well, the Mossad has a unit called A1. They work under deep cover in the United States for years at a time. And the date is February 14, 1986. Part of this A1 network had recruited a man named Jonathan Pollard. He was captured in 1986 by the FBI after having been refused asylum in the Israeli Embassy in Washington. That refusal from the Israeli Embassy was the direct result of Mossad intervention. Although the affair was handled outside the Mossad, there was rumored to be a link between Pollard and the Mossad. Someone known as Mr. X. We never got the full story. And what did come through was buried in paper. I asked my supervisor, so Is there a Mr. X? The supervisor said, in name only. Mr. X is not one person. Um, Ephraim took from us lists of Cyaneem. When we left, he used them as sources. They would tell him where things were and he would have Pollard bring out the hard copy. They agreed. I knew it was a dumb question the moment I asked it. Agreed. A scion is there to serve, not to question. If we don't move fast, others will end up in jail cells next to Pollard. So I have to go out there and see that it doesn't happen. How many Jews do you know in America who are willing to be branded a traitor and spend time in prison for the glory of Israel? I mean.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, it's just. Yeah, yeah. One thing I've, I've come to talk about, and a phrase I've been using is the final boss of diasporas because you have the Somalis come here for free. Shit. And then you have Jews come here and they literally work on behalf of another country for free.

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[C]

And another people for free. I mean, it's not even a real country. It's basically a criminal organization and they literally work for it for free and don't expect anything in return. And some may say, oh, that's highly noble to be admired. And I'm like, how many years did he do in jail? I, I, I, I don't get it. I, I don't get it. Especially when, when someone like Ostrovsky just like literally starts off his, his interviews with, oh yeah, you know, it's just Khazars, which means it's not even real Jews.

[D]

Yeah, you know, it's really like, maybe this is a little narcissistic of me, but like, I see a lot of myself in this guy because he was born outside Israel and he went and did the time there and bought into it for a time and, you know, left like totally cynical and, you know, broadly anti Israeli and Like, you know, I, I, you know, he's saying stuff in these interview that I was saying on your podcast like a couple years ago. And it's, you know, it's, I think once you kind of look at this stuff, it's like, how do you, you can't reconcile this. I mean that's the big thing. I mean he half asses sort of how this is. He tries to put out that there's more discrepancy and divergence between these different politicians and figures and ideologies than there actually is like in Israel, like there's no real distinction between any of this. And another thing I want to point out, like 40 years ago the reason these two books were bestsellers was because they were sensational and all this stuff was secret and unknown. And nowadays the like successive generation to all these figures in these books, they're just out in the open saying it, they're on Twitter saying it. You know, we know exactly what the organizations are pushing as far as Iran intervention and you know, military cooperation between the US and Israel and you know, Randy Fine and all this other stuff and just like, look, I mean I'll say this and I don't want to betray my right wing bona fides, but like as a former jewel, like it's like do you have no survival instinct? Like 40 years ago if you'd gone out and said what Randy Fine was saying on national TV or Mark Levin was saying on national tv, like you'd get another, yeah, like a conversation with you, quote unquote, you know, like, like what? Do you, like, do you not understand the harm that you are doing to Jews? And that's the same conclusion that Ostrovsky came to in his interview is like, do you not understand the harm you're doing to Jew Jews by labeling every everyone else an anti Semite? Like, you know, and clearly nothing's been learned and this whole thing is just gonna have to play out how it's gonna play out. I don't want that to be the case because I know, you know, Jewish friends, Jewish family, you know, a lot of them have no clue about any of this stuff. But like everyone else is sort of becoming aware of it and yeah, I mean, anyway, so it's just kind of ranting here, I'll get back on track. But I just, I'm so frustrated by the arrogance and the total lack of self awareness and I, I just, you know, they have this country, the United States has been pushed to the breaking point economically and in its foreign policy by these groups as has been proven on multiple podcasts, but let alone our sphere, I mean, even in the mainstream. And the. There's just no. It's like you short circuit and just call everyone else an anti Semite. And like, how, I don't know, part of it is also, like, when I was there getting trained in the whole Zionism project thing. You're never taught to think about the actual people behind this. If you're a Jew living in Israel, no one ever tells you about the Bronfmans, no one ever tells you who the Rothschilds are. Because it's not about the individuals, it's about this. It's about this group, it's about this race. And if that isn't convincing enough, then you go to a Chabad and it's about the Lubavitcher rabbi. And so like, the average Jew is infinitely more ignorant than a gentile who picks up one of these books and reads it frankly.

[C]

Oh, like, believe, believe me, I, I've come to know that.

[D]

And that just makes me frustrated. Like, you know, like you got to know your own history. I mean, this is why I love the OGC and how they genuinely attempt to understand American history as it is, with no bullshit, with no shame, with no cynicism, with no Howard Zinn crap. But just you appreciate and you understand who it is, what's in charge, what it's what issues you have and you have an intelligent understanding of it. And I guess, I mean, I don't know. It doesn't. I don't know. Well, actually, no, it just, it just, it bothers me. It bothers me that like, most Jews just have no idea why actual antisemitism is happening now. And like, I couldn't even explain it to them because to broach any of this stuff, I'm telling you, would it be like a cardinal sin? I'm just so frustrated with it. Anyway, that's enough of the bitching. I'm gonna get back to the book here. The American Jewish community. This is right again. Right after that section in the Pollard affair, American Jewish community was divided into a three stage action team. First were the individual siam. If the situation had been reversed and the United States had convinced Americans working in Israel to work secretly on behalf of the United States, they would be treated as spies by the Israeli government. Then there was the large pro Israeli lobby. It would mobilize the Jewish community in a forceful effort in whatever direction the Mossad pointed them. And last was B' Nai B'. Rith. Members of that organization could be relied on to make friends among non Jews and tarnish as anti Semitic whomever they couldn't sway to the Israeli cause with that sort of 1, 2, 3 tactic. There was no way we could strike out. Let's go in. More about Jonathan Pollard and aipac when they first met, Jonathan Pollard was an American Jew. I don't. Well, yeah, no, it's an accurate label. I saw a funny documentary a few years ago. It was about Jewish history in America. And this older woman, she says, I don't identify as a Jewish American. I identify as an American Jew. Anyway, just bring that one up. American Jew, not the other way around, who believed wholeheartedly that there was a holy alliance between the United States of America and the State of Israel. He did not see a conflict between total loyalty to the United States and total loyalty to the State of Israel. To him it was one in the same. This ideology did not spring out of itself. It was the result of a long process of indoctrination. Many Jewish youths are put through with the generous help of the State of Israel in the form of shlichim or as they are known, messengers of aliyah. Aliyah means literally like immigration, Hebrew. These are people a new immigrant to Israel is called. These are people who work within the Jewish community to instill a love of Israel in the hearts of the Jewish youth. In Jonathan Pollard's case, they were extremely successful. The young man had volunteered in 1982 to the American Israel Public affairs community. That's AIPAC, pro Israeli lobby Group, another link in the chain of organizations manacling the Jewish community to Israel in general and to the Israeli right wing in particular. Pollard, already a member of the American intelligence community, had volunteered his services for the benefit of the State of Israel. After thorough checking, including using the Mossad's connection in the Anti Defamation League, the Mossad decided that he was a good candidate and would fit in well, since he was both a Zionist zealot and well placed in the American intelligence research community with ample access to vital information about the Middle east and Africa. And since he was Jewish, there was no thought of making him a paid spy. Sometime in 1984, Uli, who is one of the handlers of Pollard before Salem Salam, the individual I mentioned, former the Air Force, Israeli Air Force colonel who the US tried to extradite but couldn't. But then frickin, you know, this past few years they made him a Brigadier General. Before that guy was the handler of Pollard, this guy was the actual handler. In the mid-1980s, URI had decided with the agreement of his bosses that Pollard was too volatile to handle, since he was always trying to do more than he was asked, taking unnecessary risks and generally becoming more of a liability than an asset. Therefore, he was put on the dormant list as a sleeper. Pollard was informed that he'd been of great help to Israel and that for his own safety, the Israeli intelligence had decided he needed a cooling off period. Should they decide at a later date that it was again safe for him to work, they'd contact him and revive the activity. Pollard was not thrilled at the prospect, but according to Uri, he didn't make a fuss. It must be remembered that up until that point he hadn't been paid one red cent and was doing it all because of sheer ideology. Not long after the file was rendered dormant, Rafiat Eitan got his hands on it, even though he was no longer a Mossad officer at the time. As the saying goes, once a Mossad, always a Mossad. He had access to Mossad files both because of his past in the Mossad and because he was the advisor on terrorism to the Prime Minister and also the head of Villakam. For him, finding the dormant Pollard fall was like striking gold. Not bound by the Mossad rules of conducting of conduct regarding Jewish helpers. There are, by the way, specific rules of conduct for how massaged interact with the Sayanim. He activated Pollard through his reviving code word and arranged to create a so called natural setting for him to meet his new operator, who I mentioned at the start, Avraham Salah. Salah, a decorated Israeli pilot who'd taken part in the bombing of the Iraqi nuclear plant. And Osirak was a natural for the job. He wanted to study in the United States and would be working for the LACAM at the same time. He didn't have to recruit Pollard, only activate him. And the meeting between the two was set up by Eitan to look like a coincidence brought about by a third party, a relative of Pollard's who had attended a speech by Sella. Sella was chosen to be the operator because he was an expert in targeting and could top shop talk shop with Pollard, who was an intelligence analysis expert. The fact that Cella was not a trained intelligence man also contributed to the fall of Pollard, who in this new phase was now getting paid and was in fact almost running himself. So okay, like I went once to the International spy Museum in D.C. and they had like a whole thing on Pollard and basically like as I recall, been a while, he would go into the office and just stuff his Suitcase full with like as many classified documents as he could physically fit. And he would just take them to the Mossad dead drop like every single couple of weeks he would do this like, and he did this for like decades, I think. And then these documents went to Israel and then to the ussr. Whoops. That's why they sentenced him to prison. But then they inevitably gave him like a five year parole thing, which is very interesting in and of itself because if he's on a five year parole, you could just have it in the prison system in the United States you can make sort of a bureaucratic determination to prematurely end parole. I don't think think you need the president to do it, although he committed capital crimes, so maybe it's a different scenario. But I mean, literally he was on parole, so he was a free man. Just checking in with his parole officer for the most part. And you know, Trump personally presidentially pardoned him so he could go fly and live in Israel just as a lifestyle convenience. And he's a national hero.

[C]

He flew there on the Adelson plane and was met on the tarmac by Benjamin Netanyahu. Oh man.

[D]

Like I just, you know, you think of this, you think of this guy publishing this book 30 years ago, the author, I mean, what's he thinking at the back of his head is going to happen to Pollard, right, as a Mossad agent? He's thinking he's done, he's burned, he's going to stay in prison forever. And man, like, like, okay, okay.

[C]

Or that while he's in there, someone may make the problem go away.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, clearly with other figures in this network, they eventually figured out how to do that. It's all the older first generation ones that get the heroes welcome. But not Epstein. Nope, not him. I think they learned their lesson, man. We're on to chapter 25 now because we're quite far into this book at this point. In brief, this one I have to be very careful about. There was a deal. Okay, so premise of the deal, Israel is selling Iran F4 Phantom parts in the mid to late 1980s.

[A]

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[D]

The Ayatollah that they hate so much. The reason that the United States was dragged into a conflict with Iran at Israel's behest, because Iran is such a dictatorship of a regime. And especially during the 1980s when Iran religious phase was in its most brutal and zealous, cracking down on its own people, forcing the diaspora. I have a lot of mixed opinions on Iran, but I think, you know, Israel selling them F4 phantom parts, which then these same F4 phantoms, they are flying today and taking action against Arab states and the United States knowing that some of those parts came there from Israel. It's just batshit crazy. I mean, like the hypocrisy, the insanity, the relentless war profiteering, the foreign policy convolutions. I mean, it's out of control. But it gets more out of control because now I want to just preface this the There was an unsolved murder in Germany of a German politician named UE Barschel. Now, in his Wikipedia article, this is an unsolved murder. They found a bunch of drugs in his system. So with a very important caveat that everything I'm about to say is alleged because it is this book's claim, not my claim that the Mossad murdered this man, this German politician, because he was involved in a deal gone sour between the German bnd, that's the German Intelligence Directorate, and the Mossad to sell these F4 Phantom parts. The deal physically was done in Germany because the time Germany had relations with both countries. The book claims, not my claim. The book's claim that this man was murdered by Mossad and they forcibly fed him an overdose of like eight different types of drugs. Inside the book, the level of detail is down to an exact recounting of how this was done, which I'm not going to get into. It's very gruesome and I will just say it's alleged. This is this man's claim, not mine. The Wikipedia page for this man doesn't list any of this information. And I'm very, very cautious about this because all of this stuff, 30 years later I can verify for all these other aspects. But when I encounter something that does not actually explain the claim, 30 years on, that's just a big red flag. So I'm staying the hell away from it. So if you want more about the story, read the book. I'm not gonna speculate or assert anything on this. It's an unsolved murder in Germany going A little bit ahead here. Late 1980s at the conclusion of the Iran Iraq war. Now we're getting much more relevant here. It seemed that the Iranians had had enough and were happy to end the war as the Iraqis wanted. The Mossad for the most part pretended to the Americans that they wanted to topple Saddam Hussein. Well, at the same time passing on information to Saddam's mukhabarat, I think, I don't know what that. I think it's an Arabic word for something I couldn't tell you. From the Israeli Embassy in Washington warning Saddam about various attempts on his life and on his regime. The Mossad regarded Saddam Hussein as their biggest asset in the area since he was totally irrational as far as international politics was concerned and therefore, although more likely to make a stupid move that the Mossad could take advantage of. What the Mossad really feared was that Iraq's gigantic army, which had survived the Iran Iraq war and was being supplied by the west and financed by Saudi Arabia, would fall into the hands of a leader who might be more palatable to the west and still be a threat to Israel. The first step to basically setting up Saddam was taken in November 1988 when the Mossad told the Israeli Foreign Office to stop all talks with the Iraqis regarding a peace front. At that time, secret negotiations were taking place between Israelis, Jordanians and Iraqis under the auspices of the Egyptians and with the blessings of the French and the Americans. The Mossad manipulated it so that Iraq looked as if it were the only country unwilling to talk, thereby convincing the Americans that Iraq had a different agenda. By January 1999, the Mossad machine was busy portraying Saddam as a tyrant and a danger to the world. The Mossad activated every asset it had in every place possible. From volunteer agents and Amnesty International to fully bought members of US Congress. Saddam had been killing his own people, the cry went, what could his enemies expect? The gruesome photos of dead Kurdish mothers clutching their dead babies after a gas attack by Saddam's army were real and the acts were horrendous. But the Kurds were engaged in an all out guerrilla war with the regime in Baghdad and had been supported for years by the Mossad who sent arms and advisors to the mountain camps of the Barazani family. This attack by the Iraqis could hardly be called an attack on their own people. But as Uri said to me once, once the orchestra starts to play, all you can do is hum along. The media was supplied with inside information and tips from reliable sources on how the crazed leader of Iraq killed people with his bare hands and used missiles to attack Iranian cities. What they neglected to tell the media was that most of the targeting for the missiles was done by the Mossad with the help of American satellites. The Mossad was grooming Saddam for a fall, but not his own. They wanted the Americans to do the work of destroying that gigantic army in the Iraqi desert so that Israel would not have to face it one day on its own border. That in itself was a noble cause for an Israeli. But to endanger the world with the possibility of. Of global war and the deaths of thousands of Americans was sheer madness. When was this book published? 1994. So what happens after this to Saddam and to Iraq and to America's involvement in the global war on terror? Well, we all know the answer to that, which makes reading this passage here very portentous and kind of heartbreaking.

[C]

Actually.

[D]

That's the brunt of the material. There is one more bit here if I can find it. Essentially, it alleges, and I, I looked into this. There's some sources on it. I think I pasted it into the wrong document. But Mr. Ostrovsky alleges in a later chapter in the book that during the peace talks that the United. Okay, so President Bush, Bush Senior was head of the CIA, and Bush Senior basically threatened to cut off all military aid to Israel due to the ongoing talks between Israel and the plo, I think, under Yasser Arafat or maybe a little bit earlier. And so he claims. I'm going to say just throw that word out. Alleges again, because I have no idea how true this is. He claims that rogue elements within the Mossad wanted to assassinate President George H.W. bush on air Force One while he was in Madrid in 1991. That's what he claims. I can't verify it. He asserts, Mr. Strawski asserts that he leverages his Mossad connections and he meets with a US Senator. And I think he's still live, so I'm not going to mention him because I don't want to open a can of worms here. Oh, he died recently. Senator Pete McCloskey. This man, he. Mr. Ostrovsky goes to him, has lunch with him and says, look, like, I think Mossad is going to make an attempt on the life of this man. So Senator Ostrovsky contacts the State Department, Diplomatic Protection. They get word to the Secret Service, and they put an intel briefing on Air Force One. Well, it's on the ground in Spain that says, minimize your time here. And if a security threat comes at this point, to the flight while it's on the ground, it is most likely to come in the form of a explosive device in luggage. So Mr. Ostrovsky claims that he is the reason that that piece of intelligence got to the ground team protecting the president in 1991. Now there's all sorts of intelligence and all sorts of plots and all sorts of attempted assassinations on various world leaders and also, as we are well aware now on US Presidents. I can't confirm or substantiate anything about this, but interestingly, President, I did find a separate source that said that a year later. This is after the books, it's not included in the book, but basically that President Clinton orders a missile strike on the Iraqi military headquarters.

[C]

Why?

[D]

Because they claimed that Saddam Hussein was going to attack Air Force One while it was on the ground in Madrid in 1991. And so for that reason, Bill Clinton attacks the Iraqi military intelligence headquarters as a retaliation for this plot that is substantiated and the actual State Department archives. So I don't know anything more about it. If you're the researching type, there's plenty more to jump off here. Essentially, the only other stuff I have is about the nuclear facility in Dimona. But other than that, we have reached the end of the Other side of Deception. And by the end, it will start right at the top of the episode. The last chapter, second to last chapter of the book is about Robert Maxwell. So I hope this has been astonishingly and gut wrenchingly relevant and also perhaps a compliment to both the Inquisition and the Star Chamber. As far as the materials discussed, the networks that are there, the people, same people, or the immediate successors to, you know, you can kind of trace a through line from the actions described in this book and the networks through to today. And I don't really, you know, one, I don't think this is a conspiracy because it's so well documented. He has let me find out how many sources he has in here. It's nuts. He has an average of 20 different media sources per chapter from US and British newspaper articles about all of the geopolitical events, assassinations and targetings that are happening in his book. So I guess what's really one. It's a shame any of this played out the way it did to the fact that as far as I'm concerned, all of this stuff could have been released yesterday is extremely disconcerting. And that individuals named in this book from 30 years ago are not only getting pardoned, but they're getting promoted. They're not getting extradited. They're getting celebrated. They're getting celebrated by the same network of supporters who either themselves or their immediate predecessors were responsible for massive intelligence operations, arms trafficking, drug smuggling, money laundering, fraud and gigantic security issues for the United States. So if that isn't enough documentation in a sort of call to awareness, let's say of, you know, so if anyone ever tells you, I mean, there's nothing to this Jewish conspiracy, there's nothing to Zionism, it's just X or it's just Y. I mean, listen to me, listen to a former Jew who lived in Israel going through all these different sources and telling you that it's all true in a two part series and go listen to the Inquisition and go listen to Star Chamber. And I like, there's no refuting any of this. Anyone who will put up a Twitter post or put up a YouTube video and say actually it's not this giant obvious thing that you're pointing out all this evidence about, it's actually this other thing. What they are trying to sell you is a narrative. It is a narrative of unreality. And you cannot engage in the political process when you're not tethered to what's real. And this is real. Like this. This is also Israel. This is a country with prime ministers that are heads of spy organizations. I know we can't really talk because H.W. bush was the head of the CIA. I, I get that this happens and I also understand that every country is going to inherently look out for its own self interest. But it is up to Americans to decide how much foreign interference we can reasonably permit within our society. And it is also, you know, we can decide not to do business with him, you know, in Israel.

[A]

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[D]

They were telling us the biggest threat to Israel was a movement called bds. It was a very simple organization. It was portrayed as very woke, very progressive, very anti semitic, boycott, divest and sanction. And this movement which is essentially directing US and European countries to not do any business at all with Israel. I didn't really frankly understand its grounding until just now. Like just now having finished this book and thinking about it and seeing materially what happens here. And you know, right now, if you oppose BDS in certain states in the United States, you don't get federal funding and some people can show up to your house. And I find this trajectory very scary, one, as an American, but two, I mean, I'll just say this like as a former Jewish, when you are running around trying to financially, morally, legally cudgel everyone who either has a disagreement with you or an issue with you or doesn't want you to take a course of action, eventually you are better served reconciling that criticism with your own ideology, with your own belief structure, with your own Jewish beliefs, and saying, maybe there's some merit here. Maybe there's this other part not of the Talmud or the Tanakh, but maybe some other part of like the original five books of Moses that is steering us in this other way where we like Jews don't, you don't have to just call everything anti Semitic. Like you are making everything worse for yourselves. You are drawing more attention to these activities. You are like, frankly alienating hundreds of thousands of secular Jews who are dropping out of the religion or converting to Christianity and like you're self destructing your own Jewish project. And like, I don't, that doesn't bother me as a Christian because I think all Jews should just become Christian and accept Christ. But you know, I just, I do feel a little bit for the average Jewish person who doesn't understand any of this because they've been lied to by Zionists and they've been lied to by Israeli PR and they've been lied to by aipac and they're told that, you know, all of this is a frickin hoax. And I've just laid out in these like two part series like none of this is a hoax. It's all very real. Not only is it real in the past, it's real in the present, it's continuing into the future. And I'm deeply concerned with the trajectory that the Trump administration is taking towards not only validating Israel's current course of action, but every single past course of action that they've taken. I mean, what else could that represent? That Trump is pardoning old spies and that they are awarding all these lavish honors today to these figures that are involved in this stuff and that, you know, that there's this pushing on his last day in his first term to pardon these people. It's just, you know, I mean, how can you say otherwise? That Trump is not Israel? First, like, I've just laid out all this evidence to you. I would love to hear someone come up with a competent rebuttal because they can't call me an anti Semite because I fucking am one. So anyway, if I keep talking, I'm just going to get, like, super angry about this. And I'm probably just rambling at this point. But, like, I just. I wish that Israel and Jews would understand that this criticism is not coming from nowhere and their strategy to combat it is just pouring fuel on the fire of genuine anti Semitism and is going to. I don't know. I think it's gonna. If this can't be. If there can't be a shift in the Jewish psyche about what Israel is, what Zionism is, what it ought to be, that it's not this sort of parochial 1920s-1940s fight for freedom, weird anachronistic movement, that it's this, like, genuine danger that's causing a severe drop in living standards in the west as we pay more gas prices for Iranian intervention, as we sell all of our cultural caches, we sell all of our weapons, as we deplete our munitions, as we fight endless wars in Ukraine and also in the Middle East. Now, I mean, if you're like, if you're a Jew, like, ask yourself, like, is Israel itself. Like, leave aside for a second, leave aside America's. America's obviously not benefiting from this. Like, empirically, is Israel bending from this? Like, it. Was it a good decision for Israel to go into Lebanon? You know, I've seen people that I went to college with, you know, show up dead for an offensive war for no reason. Like, you're going to start this war in Iran and then you're going to start something in Lebanon. Does that timing make sense? Like, how many young Jews are going to have to go die pointlessly for, like, this, you know, for these old retired spies who just can't stop doing it, you know, for the Zionist racket to just continue. Like, in the same way that Ukraine can't survive if all the old people are throwing all their young men, but also, like, women into the meat grinder, like Israel. You know, it breaks my freaking heart when I see, like, young Jewish women die needlessly in Lebanon. Like, what the fuck is Israel doing here? Does this actually make strategic sense for you? Or were you better off in the early 1990s when this book came out, when you were pushing towards peace with the Palestinians, when you were actually trying to reconcile your differences with Jordan even like five, ten years ago when there was like that slight warming in relationship between Israel and the Arab states. Like were you better then or are you better now when you still have fucking Bibi Netanyahu in charge screwing everything up. No one has the balls to get rid of him politically as a domestic figure. And then like your only other alternatives are like Itamal Ben Gvil, who's the direct successor to Kahana, like you've learned nothing. All the people are the same and you're not going to have a State in 30 years because either everyone's going to be secular and totally screwed by the Zionist project or the religious ones. You can't conscript them and they, they aren't going to fight for it. So you're getting squeezed on both sides. And I think I don't blame the Israelis for getting the hell out of Israel. I do blame them for like not assimilating. Like I had a choice personally of whether I could go to Israel and do the aliyah and be Achayal beded or Lohem as like a combat soldier in the idf. And I took a look at it and said, fuck no. My loyalty is to the United States. My loyalty is to this country. I'm going to accept Christ, marry a Christian woman and live like truthfully. Because as we've just outlined over these two podcasts, like, this isn't a way to sustain a society. Like this is not a long term strategy for things. Anyway, I've just been going and going. So any thoughts on any of this, Pete? Now that we've covered all this material across these two parts, I mean, I have a thought.

[C]

But if I say it, you may go for another half hour or an hour.

[D]

Let's do, I mean, let's. I can keep it short. I can keep it short.

[C]

It's almost like they basically got us to go attack Iran so that they could attack Lebanon. While, while the, while the United States is basically destroying, having some of their bases destroyed, some of their men killed, the oil, the friggin Straits of Hormuz gets shut down. Oil goes through the roof. Everything goes through the roof. We're going to have a, There's a very good, real possibility we'll have a fertilizer crisis next season, next growing season. They use it. It's basically like an excuse to, oh, while they're over there doing that for, you know, for us because they owe us, we're going to go into Lebanon and you know, we're going to Attack this historically Christian country, which they basically ran out all the Christians by. I mean, the history of Lebanon is just absolutely insane. And that we're just going to go and kill more civilians. I mean, they literally, they just want to, if they want to have a buffer zone, quote unquote, they're going to have to just kill civilians. And that's what they've been doing. I mean, they've killed, I think I heard the, the estimate is that 3,600 Iranians have been killed. That would be, you know, soldiers and civilians. But 4,000 have been killed in Lebanon in recent weeks. And most, the overwhelming amount of those are just civilians because they want this thing called a buffer zone. And it's absolutely insane that they're doing this. And

[D]

I mean, just like my own perspective on this, like one, can you hear me?

[C]

Okay, I got you, I got you.

[D]

Oh, perfect, perfect. Yeah, my, my screen fell asleep. I was a little worried I lost you for a sec. So for one thing, like since October 7th, no one has functionally stopped Israel from genociding the Palestinians. I hate to sound like a cynical bastard, but I don't think that the US strikes, US joint Israeli strikes, whatever, on Iran were sort of a faint for Israeli action in Lebanon because I just don't think they would need it. You know, clearly, you know, the defensive justification for continuing operations in Gaza wore out within the first month. And I genuinely think if they just started attacking Lebanon endlessly like they have been, I don't want to say no one would do anything because obviously the world is souring very quickly on this. But I also, I, I, I think it's a, not so much a chicken and egg thing. I think basically they weren't, weren't the opposite. They weren't planning to go into Lebanon. Well, they have, they obviously have a strategic plan and tactical plan for going into Lebanon. That is one of their goals, right? The greater Israel patch, all nine yards. But they've wanted Lebanon ever since 1982. But the way Israel works is it waits for a short term opportunity to open up and present itself. Now I think my own personal interpretation is that Israel, we're never going to know tactically if they made the first strike on Iran and forced the US hand. But I do think that perhaps they cajoled or convinced the Trump administration that this would be a very short week long or so operation in Iran. And I, that might be a genuine hubristic analysis by the Israelis. I mean, they literally might believe that because you can't wage endless offensive action and have like a clear picture of your enemy. If they had a clear picture, they wouldn't have done it. But the, the U.S. attacks Iran, I think Israel looks at that and says now that this thing is happening, now is a good time for Lebanon. But I don't think that that was the initial plan to have the US attack Iran for them to then go into Lebanon. I think it was. This is already kicked off and happening based on basically within Israel the structure of how frequently they can call up reservists to the idf. And also the dwindling pool of from the diaspora, Khayelim Boddadim, the lone soldiers. These are basically Westerners that go to Israel and fight in the idf, although increasingly they're having to rely more on like Russians and Ethiopians and even Indians, Indian nationals who claim to be part of a lost tribe of Judea. I'm not making that up. You know, these groups will fight in the idf. They're having a manpower shortage of resource shortage. Popular opinion is dwindling. So if you're going to go into Lebanon, you know, if you can't do it a position of strength, you at least don't want to do it in a position where you know over time you are going to get weaker. And I think part of this is a fatalistic decision by Netanyahu. His ultimate legacy is, I mean what he's wanted because you have to understand when he came of age, like I think it was in his 20s or 30s around the invasion of Lebanon and in Israel, culturally that's, that's been a strategic failure. Basically Israel got bogged down in a quagmire in Lebanon and they got forced out. And interestingly in the book they detail in the 1980s how the Mossad had like deep connections with the crowd Christian leadership in Hezbollah.

[A]

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[D]

People don't actually know this but you know, I, I don't, I don't necessarily want to give them credit because I don't know how you feel about this other podcast or not, but I know of A podcast with two guys where they're discussing, like, basically that Israel and Zionism have a fairly good command over different leadership structures within Lebanon. And one thing that I noticed myself in Israel was they actually did this. How do I. Nah, shit, I'm gonna dox myself if I say it. Basically, there's a lot to Lebanon that people don't know. There's a lot with money that people don't know. And if the US is making TCO policy on Lebanon, then you can bet that Israel has a lot of stuff going on there too. So essentially, I don't know, there is like a claim floating around that certain one that the non Hezbollah leadership is essentially facilitating the Israeli operation within Lebanon. That's a hot take. But also that, you know, everyone thought Hezbollah was down for the count and they weren't because they're a very resilient organization and Israel is kind of fucked. And it's caught in this paradoxical cycle where it aggresses upon all of its immediate geographic neighbors, which then they retaliate and put Israel in a weaker strategic position. And it just continues in this cycle. And I mean, I don't see a way out of it. I mean, I. I don't see Israel's way out of it because, I mean, they've had a history of attacking their neighbors for decades. When I went there and did my thing, we were just consistently told every single military action Israel has ever fought has been a defensive war, either by some sort of treaty that's very nebulous and not Israel's insistence, or by some sort of weird UN acknowledged police structure or by just Zionist claims about how antisemitic Arab countries are generally. It's always in some big strategic picture, a defensive war. And that was very hard to believe even then. But, like, looking at the structure of, like, who these Americans were, like within Israel and these foreigners, they're like these Jonathan Pollard types that have swallowed the propaganda and they might just believe it and they might just be in charge of Israel and they might think Israel is invincible. Like, that's a very real possibility. Like, if you're drinking the Kool Aid, you're going to be surprised when it tastes like something else. You're not going to like, understand that. And I think Israel's bought too much of its own propaganda. And I think I have never heard a clear American case for the war in Iran. Every major political figure spearheading it, from Marco Rubio to Donald Trump to Pete Hegseth, has told me via the news that we did it for Israel. So why the fuck am I supposed to believe anything else? And like, I know this country and I know how much they hate Iran even though they did business with them multiple times as we discussed in the book. And you know, it's a simplistic explanation, but Israel is just going for broke here. And I think the problem isn't that, I mean, yeah, it's a huge problem that Israel's doing this, but it's also a bigger problem that like, I mean, we don't see the ripple effects of geography as like an ongoing thing. Like when governments conduct action, they don't actually know what they're doing at the time. They have a post hoc explanation for their activities.

[C]

Right?

[D]

That's how it's, it's cover your ass mode inside the government because all their decision making processes are very real time. And you can see that the Trump administration has no long term agenda because every decision is a post hoc rationalization for either previous successive or previous failed action. And you know, yeah, it's like leftist media that's pushing it. But I believe it on Judge Knapp when I see that Trump has 35 times said that the Strait of Hormuz is open and I can pull up Marine Tracker, an open source intelligence software, and I can look at a map of the Strait of Hormuz and I can track an ArcGIS. All these systems I can see that is just bullshit, right? When you can have the ability to read sources and actually perceive reality and get away from this like waning media control over how you should feel about the war in Iran. I mean, something is broken in, like the Zionist propaganda process within this. They, they broke something and they're never going to be able to fix it with this war in Iran. Because like, dude, I know you've had this conversation with others over the weekend. I was out with a bunch of boomers. I was just talking to them about this stuff, like real Fox News boomer types. Same thing Stormy said. Same things you said. Like, you know, yeah, it's really not in American interests that we're attacking Iran. And yeah, we did this thing. But like, even though I don't like the mullahs, like really screwed up by bombing this country and killing this guy. And now gas is, you know, you know, don't believe what they say. It's gas is still pretty expensive. And you know, we have compromised our military strategy for the Middle East. And I have these boomers telling me like, why don't really see kind of what the point of this is. Like When Fox News can't come up with the narrative for why the US Is waging a conflict in the Middle east, shit is sideways. I mean, there's no way around it. Like, there are some real problems. And this sort of harkens back to what Stormy said. Like, when the government is in a legitimacy crisis, it doesn't matter what ruling party is in charge or who's the president. You're going to have this cycle. Like the US Government has lost so much credibility during this Iran conflict. And then like, you know, how, how is the United States going to justify its next conflict? Because the next war has got to be an offensive war because something is going to happen geographically with all these choke points. I'm kind of on the Michael Yawn school of thought where like, I'm starting to think about sort of 20th century strategy and how countries are going to realize and remember that they can control their own geography once they've abandoned this free trade trap or paying lip service to the IMF and World Bank. And countries are going to start, you know, like, okay, if I was China and I'm looking at Iran, I'm saying like, huh, damn, I could control that straight real easy, Real, real easy in this geographic location. And also, you know, China probably didn't consider before this conflict that it could slow its demand by, of oil barrels by the amount that it slowed it. I mean, I don't have the exact numbers, so I'm not going to say statistics out of my ass. But China has like stopped buying a lot of different oil and they're making real time geopolitical decisions that are going to advantage them. And so if the United States has launched an offensive war and it is a war, not an operation or a special military action or whatever the they're telling you, if the United States has wants to war where Iran has won and Hezbollah is stronger in its conflict against Israel than it was previously assessed, and all of America's Middle Eastern Sunni Gulf state Arab allies are fucked for tourism and for US bases in this location. And if Russia and China are making geopolitical and commodity decisions that are advantaging them against the United States. So if the United states has taken Ls in these six areas, anyone telling you that we won this war in Iran is just factually incorrect. And you know, I see, I see a lot of this geopolitics stuff. I mean, it's not hidden, there's not narratives. One thing I've really noticed in the media, and I know we did this stream on like Bernays A while ago, the media's ability to stream propaganda into the minds of people is just done. It's just totally done. And their money doesn't have the same returns. But I've also been able to see, very honestly, since this conflict with Iran started, one, I see in mainstream American news every day about like Israel atrocities in Lebanon or two, I see like, yeah, Iran appears to be winning this thing factually on the ground. Comes from Financial Times and Bloomberg and others. And you know, I just. In terms of foreign policy outside of a nuclear weapon, I do not think the Trump administration could make a more disastrous decision than what they've done up until this point. Speaking very bluntly, like, I, I can't think of something because for 20 years all we ever thought was there's just, Iran is like the prize at the end of the tunnel, right? The U.S. bombing Iran, that is like worst case, doomsday scenario. I've picked up used books before from 20 years ago from like Cato Institute and these other faggots that are telling me like, oh, I have had no luck lately.

[E]

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[D]

Oh, you know, if something happens with Israel, Iran's going to close the Strait of Hormuz and that's the doomsday scenario. And then we just precipitated it. So 20 years of middle Eastern policy is toast. Another book recommendation I have real quick here. It's a book called Choke Points by, I think his name is Edward Fishman. It came out last year, New York Times bestseller. It is about how the United States is engaging in economic warfare with sanctions on, on China, Russia and Iran. But I'll skip China and Russia because I haven't gotten to those sections yet with Iran. All these people at treasury under late Bush and early Obama, like Stephen Levy, they're all Jews by the way. All of them. Every single person involved in Treasury Department and sanctions impositions on Iran. They're all Jewish people. Sanctions had never been tried before offensively and aggressively against Iran in the manner that they were doing it. And they were so aggressive with how they were going about it that they were actually getting stiff congressional opposition to these sanctions regimes. But then these all went ahead. So all these sanctions went ahead. They did all this bullshit targeting where they claimed, we're just going to, you know, we're just going to target sectors of the Iranian economy and we're going to target missile development, but we're not going to target humanitarian foodstuffs and, you know, water and these sorts of things. Well, you can't just sanction physical production elements of an economy in isolation. It's this retarded view of economics that views everything as this closed system of every industry being segmented from everything else. I saw this tweet from Stormy where he was talking about how Paul Krugman in an interview said that he literally wrote economics textbooks and never considered supply chains ever in economics. And we have an entire generation of Jews at the treasury that don't understand supply chains and production and the interaction of prices because otherwise they never would have imposed these sanctions. It starved Iran. Yes, it forced Iran to the negotiating table. Which is why in 2015, the JCPOA, which was a good thing, mind you, people say that we, you know, it's pallets of cash out to the Iranians. Yes, but that was, that was payment for sanctions relief and interest on US sanctioned Iranian owned assets. So you're essentially, you've taken the money from the Iranians and you're giving a little bit of it back. Now look at today, look at this. You know, who knows if we're going to have an actual peace agreement here in Switzerland or whatever else is developing. But okay, this Iran thing is quote, unquote, over $150 billion payable immediately, 300 billion in sanctions relief. So even by the owner sort of sanctions argument that was developed under Bush, Obama and Trump and Biden and TRUMP Again, this 15 year period of sanctions, you are now in this conflict rolling back your own agenda of sanctions. So you're giving more to the Iranians than you gave during the jcpoa. So what's the issue with this, this complicated line of thinking that I'm saying, okay, you have 15 years of anti Iran policy. You then bomb Iran and you pay them back all the money that you sanctioned from them. So you lost, objectively, you have undone all of your efforts to financially restrict weapons development, nuclear development within Iran. And if I was an Iranian, why the hell wouldn't I want a revitalized military or development of a nuclear weapon right now? How well did these sanctions actually work? Because now, sitting where we are at the end of June, in 2026, we have completely blown 15 years of anti Iranian sanction policy, paradoxically, ironically, for Israel's interest. So I don't know to point like a through line to all of this. You have decades and decades and decades of espionage and financial activity, all of these things strengthening Israel's position and it just undoes itself in the end. I mean, that's exactly what happened here. The US is just, you know, we, we fought a war to give Iran back its sanction money. Great job.

[C]

Well, yeah, I'll leave it there on

[D]

a positive note, like, this is an L for our enemies. That's the thing that I want to end this on. It's very sad that Americans died in this conflict and that this war had to happen at all. War is a great tragedy, but this is the worst miscalculation that Israel has ever made in its history, bar none. That is a positive thing for America.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And it's opened the eyes of a lot of people. Not only normies as to this quote unquote relationship and just exactly what it has cost us, is costing us and will cost us in the future unless it is brought under control or just cut off completely. Yeah. All right, man. Thank you. And until the next time, always a pleasure.

[D]

Pete.

[C]

Yes, sir. Take care.

[D]

Bye.

[A]

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[B]

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